House Reed: A character study, with Secrets of the Citadel

[@EloImFizzy]

I'd never even heard the Howland and Ashara theory before watching this video. Now I'm completely sold on it.

[@trisarathops]

Robert made a really good video just on this particular theory and it’s soo good

[@sleekoduck]

Meera might be the Sword of the Morning!

[@Camm0Blue]

Ive always wanted to know more about this family ever since Jojen said his father cried over Ned, and the tower of joy scene. I appreciate the video!

[@laneyarcade]

I literally cheered when I saw this video was an hour 13 minutes; that's how much I enjoy these videos

[@trisarathops]

Doesn’t the seat of House Reed move about and that makes it so hard to find. I guess you could call it Howland’s Moving Castle

[@Axechucker]

TRISARATHOPS NO YOU DID NOT--

[@1jasondpta]

Trisarathops 😂

[@lathanandrews417]

Hey guys! Just wanted to point out that the only time the show GOT mentions Ashara Dayne is in the Season 7 dvd extra of the History & Lore: Tourney at Harrenhal. And of all the people for the show to use as the narrator is.....Meera Reed :) You could argue that the reason she was chosen as the narrator is because she’s relaying a story her father Howland told her. But still, just wanted to point that out.

[@MariaSCarr]

That was so enlightening that I had to save that to my Favorites. In the last two podcasts, you two tackled the two houses that I have been most curious about. I think that you established an astonishing connection here and brought your receipts with you. Thank you for that!!!!

[@royward1952]

Awww thank you guys!!! I so needed this today! I was so happy when this popped in my notifications.

[@ewanmacdonald8466]

I’ve said this before on Gemma’s channel, but it rings more true with Robert- both of them have such a refined “BBC” British style of commentary and style of presentation that is normally reserved for the upper tiers of broadcasting, yet they are so humble and self effacing - love them both

[@pastlife960]

Yeah, it’s just so easy to listen to.

[@staceybauer4108]

Ditto!!!

[@mistymathis257]

I just had a thought - perhaps Ned wanted to dance with her because Howland wanted to meet her and he asked Ned to dance with her to ask for the opportunity to introduce Howland. Howland didn’t want to dishonor her by asking her to dance with a lowly crannog man. Ashara could have developed a soft spot in the beginning for Howland being concerned about her.

[@AUPackmule]

Great theories you two. Isn’t it funny we can talk so long about so little information in the story? The conclusion from the two of you is impressive.

[@ryanconaty766]

What if the Reeds aren't the first line of defence of the north but the last line of defence for the south to protect the Gods eye for the children of the forst and why Howland was involved with the starks and higher house because he knew from the children of the forest that John snow would be burn as the night last hero made sure it happened then disappeared again.

[@jackbelmont4389]

Very interesting considering the fact that the swamp people and house reed have very strong ties with the children of the Forest.

[@redladie8528]

My very tin foil theory on house Reed is Howland is the original, there were none before and he isn't human, he dates all the way back. He showed up rather randomly at the tourney and helps put lyanna in the princes path. Then sent his kids to go take bran to become the 3 eyed crow, also rather randomly. He's pulling all the strings! He probably was the marsh king and probably told the children of the forest how to create white walkers! I know crazy but the man is like myth but has a hand in everything!

[@PabloAlvestegui]

Rhaegar is the other person who mentions Ice and Fire in Danny's HOTU vision, he actually says "... the Song of Ice and Fire..."

[@roddammit5510]

A daily double dose of our favorite Geeks

[@StarDMC26]

It's always a treat getting a notification saying you and Gemma collaborated on a video! Can't get enough of both your channels! Thanks for the amazing content as always!

[@jeffgustafson4552]

Woooooot! Two AWESOME creators together!

[@Marvee78]

I absolutely love this theory of Ashara and Howland as a book fan. It makes so many things fall into place naturally, without the tinfoil gymnastics. Excellent work.

[@67Neisha]

Oh thank you for this, I love this so much. In addition to getting Lyanna and Rhaegar together and meeting Ashara, surely there must also be some sort of movement toward getting Ned and Catelyn together, by causing Brandon Stark to become enraged. We know he has a hot temper and this could be a way to use this to get him out of the way so that Bran can be born

[@kallum222]

cant wait for this one. House Reed are such a fascinating house

[@modmary1]

Suggestion for the “working title” for this series. Minor House Mysteries

[@ajayborkar1788]

What about a subtitle of "Lying in the Reeds?"

[@ThatDangerousWolf]

@@ajayborkar1788 Ashara surely was lying in the Reeds 😉😉😉😉😉

[@grazareth]

Love it! Both yours and Gemma's are amongst my very favourite channels and I already know I'm really going to enjoy listening to this. Thanks for the video and keep up the good work! =)

[@ladystarfall1539]

I just love the way you both compliment each other, so cordial and lovely!! Thank you for this fascinating video. This finally answers some lingering questions I had about House Reed. Hope he shows up at some point.

[@Neenz718]

Yes! The Westerosi Cajuns!!

[@adamcrompton4385]

Amos moses !!

[@jenniferking7264]

Awesome! I am a subscriber to both of you and its nice to finally see the collab.

[@TheTam0613]

Such an excellent breakdown of such an important family!! As a duo, you two are phenomenal. Thank you so much!

[@paulbarry3400]

Thanks guys; best theory video I’ve listened to in AGES. Several ideas I’d never heard before and bought totally.

[@AllTheArtsy]

I'd never heard of Howland + Ashara = Meera (and Jojen), but it actually makes so much sense??? If anything, it makes something of a character that's specifically mentioned whose story otherwise amount to not much? I'm sold!

[@Micruv10]

Really hoping that in Episode 2 of season 8, Howland shows up at Winterfell with Ashara Dayne. He confirms Jon’s parentage, and Ashara gives him Dawn. One can only dream.

[@moversrus4048]

Mike Ruvolo welp lol

[@houseofsledge6891]

Does anyone know what happened to Gemma (secrets of the citadel)? She has just disappeared from online. I hope all is well in her life cuz her content is just awesome.

[@gettingtoastedatq]

Never clicked anything so quickly

[@terismith9726]

Thank you both for this video that is easy to follow. Gemma thank you for the resource given.

[@thefearlessmermaid3022]

Best thing to listen to while gettong ready for work. Thanks Robert & Gemma!!!! 💟💟💟💟💟

[@Zantam70]

love this duo, best guest by a good margin

[@minty.maelstrom]

It makes sense that Ashara is with Howland, but then it makes me think he and Ned can't have killed ser Arthur...

[@mortennrgaard179]

i believe there is a Arthur is really the halfhand theory that supports your oppinion

[@BrainyBlonde21]

It’s never made sense to me that Ned killed Arthur, yet they Daynes still seem to like him.

[@booknerdlover3675]

I LOVE collaborations between you two!!!!!

[@melanatedqueen6662]

I love listening to you talk. I’m from Detroit and I never met anyone who talks like that. Your voices are so pretty.

[@NandiniStar]

I'm missing Gemma from 'Secrets of the Citadel'... enjoyed your collaborations w her so much.

[@sunshinesilverarrow5292]

Thank you guys, a good one, as always. Hugs & sunshine 🌞 N

[@Stonnin]

What happened to the secrets of the citadel videos? Cant find them

[@t.k.1319]

@34:30 The reason house Dayne names their heir after Ned may not be as complicated as Ned facilitating the conspiracy at the heart of the theory. It could have just been gratitude for Ned returning Dawn.

[@lucianbalasanu8956]

Hello Guys, I used to listed to both of you before you began collaborating so it is a pleasure to hear you in these debates. One small issue, just in case you are able to do anything about it: can you do something about the sound quality? Gemma's (sorry if this is misspelled) voice is a bit muffled.

[@bunnie12345]

Thank u ! You guys are Both Great !!!!!!

[@jwisking]

What happened to Secret of the Citadel?

[@terryt7941]

💜 Love the “working title”

[@IamD0wJ0nes]

Does anyone know or have any strong theories as to why the Tullys weren't at the Tourney of Harrenhal?

[@pastlife960]

Little finger was there though right? Might he have been spying on the Starks???

[@CRule-bs9nr]

In a video referencing rumors about Ned's infidelity, was there a man on a boat who said he saw Ned leave a fisherman's daughter and her unborn baby by the water? I haven't read the books, but remember seeing this somewhere. Is it possible this was Ned delivering Ashara and baby Meera to Howland, and the story changed from person to person? Ignore me if I am imagining something or misquoting ♡♡♡

[@cb_norwood]

The Secrets of the Citadel girl makes Preston Jacobs' wildest suppositions seem like a psychologically stable and rationale source.

[@ShinyBusterBaby]

I haven't read the books yet but has it been said if Holwand had been keeping in contact with his kids through greensight?

[@ShinyBusterBaby]

@ 🤣🤣🤣🤣 That's awesome and fairly accurate way of explaining all that. That was good.

[@patrickt6227]

Hello I have really enjoyed your Travelers Guide to Westeros over the last month or so. But I have been patiently awaiting more of the series since then. Does your patreon feature more frequent content of this nature or are you taking a break from the series until the new season?

[@dakotamatthews8952]

Please don’t stop making amazing content.

[@ciaramcgrattan461]

So, if Howland took Ashara back to Greywater Watch to hide, why didn't they take Jon Snow with them? Surely he would've been safer from Robert there than anywhere else?

[@67Neisha]

Ciara McG I’ve been wondering this for years!

[@AriBelleDean]

Same reason the president and vice president don't travel together. You don't place two valuable targets together.

[@kolcs]

55:04 why is Bran griefstricken? There is nothing in the text indicating this. It sounds like your argument is going around in circles: Bran went to see Ned because he is griefstricken and we know that he is griefstricken because he went to see Ned.

[@MadeUpLikeADoll]

Miss Gema

[@MariaSCarr]

That makes SO much sense!

[@sleekoduck]

Wasn't there a Reed in the Kingsguard in Fire and Blood?

[@neilbodwell9172]

The Crannogmen are hated by southrons for a few reasons. 1. because they're a big reason why the Andals couldn't conquer the north. Plus they don't fight in a straight up sort of way like the rest of Westeros and the rest of the Nobles just refuse to change how they fight to adapt to the environment. The Southron nobles look at the larger and overtly strong as the ideal male. Crannogmen are the exact opposite. Which is actually is advantageous to a person who is gonna fight in a swamp. I'd wager part of the reason the northmen like the crannogmen is because I believe it was the Flints and some of the smaller lesser known Northern houses fight very similar to the crannogmen and its mentioned when Asha gets captured by Stannis. She mentioned being attacked by a tree or something to that effect.

[@kalin666]

Totally disagree about Meera NOT withholding info. Not only was she surprised Ned didn't tell his kids, she then had to figure out what/how much she could divulge. Hence the super long pause before beginning her story, she had to reconstruct her father's story without the secrets.

[@jat3916]

I don’t believe the fall of the Targaryen Dynasty was being plotted, just a change of King at the tourney. I do think something caused the long spring. I don’t think Howland Reed was being deceptive at the tourney. Some 15 year old boys are huge compared to a Crannogmen. A squire would also be in pretty good shape. It had to be Lyanna in the armor. Nothing else makes sense. I also believe Rhaegar gave her the roses to honor her bravery. Hey guys, sometimes stuff just happens. It doesn’t half to be fate or some kind of magical intervention. The dragons didn’t like to go North. Dragons are hot weather creatures and don’t like the cold. I do not believe Howland Reed and Ashara Dayne were in a relationship. I think he was paying attention to her because he knew Ned had a huge crush. Ned never told his family any stories anywhere close to touching on Jon. He never even speaks of the sister he adored. I think you’re over-thinking this whole story. If Ashara ran off with Howland Reed why would Ned ever have to kill Arthur Dayne. Because of his Kingsguard oath? Would Arthur really believe Ned would betray his own sister? I find this difficult to believe. People love who they love. Looks rarely tells the whole story unless you’re terribly shallow. Then it doesn’t last. You might look first but if the container is unsubstantial, you don’t stay.

[@mistymathis257]

I think Jojen was given a choice by Bloodraven when he was sick, he could live longer and sacrifice himself for Bran or he could die from his illness. Perhaps Howland also knew this from his time at the Isle of Faces.

[@mollyjones4813]

I'm not sold on the JoJen paste...they've made so many parallels to Shade of the Evening and we don't suspect people being an ingredient in that and yet the people who drink it still get a sort of green dream.

[@markmcknight9601]

Have either of you ever noticed that there are no members of the Nights Watch who blame any recent Stark for their being sent to the Wall? Jeor was a volunteer, Benjen has his own reason and of course is a Stark. No grudges. And when Jon is up for Lord Commander, I'd sure think it would have come up. What might be up with that? Supposedly the Starks "Support the Wall". Well, yeah, the two Gifts, but for the past generation or two they haven't been sending offenders to the Wall. Is it to make life easier for any family members that end up there? Do the Starks think of the Wall as their own private hidey-hole for when things go bad, and to keep it from getting too tough you do something else with your criminals. Not quite support, in current times for the story.

[@pietrayday9915]

Interesting questions - I don't know how much light I can shed on the answers, but if it helps, I'm sure the books, at least, indicate that the Starks view service at the wall to be an honor. The sentiment may not extend to all the seven kingdoms, and the wall seems to be regarded as a punishment via banishment the further south you go, but for the Starks, at least, serving at the Wall is Serious Business, with an oath that is taken deadly seriously. The Starks do seem to be in charge of punishing deserters from the Wall - desertion is not taken lightly, and it seems to be taken as a serious dishonour. That said, service at the Wall does seem to a kind of "hidey-hole" for the Starks: an honourable way to move players off the "Game of Thrones" game-board without being forced to kill them, and a shelter to hide those who would be in danger anywhere else and give them a chance to redeem themselves or otherwise enjoy an honourable second chance.

[@sad4nothin]

How do you explain your own theories on septa lamore being ashara then?

[@TheCbot88]

Maybe ol’ Garth sired a frog man while he was surfing the second hammer of the waters?

[@scaldon2]

Did house reed send any soldiers south with Robb Stark ?

[@mitchconnor8764]

I think Rob just ordered them to hold the neck and kill any southern armies that try pass

[@ojb48o]

Jojen and Meera didn’t report to Winterfell until Robb was gone, so I’ve always assumed they didn’t.

[@scaldon2]

@@mitchconnor8764 oh thanks for the response. It makes sense that robb would tell house reed to hold the neck . Have a good day.

[@ewanmacdonald8466]

scaldon2 I think there is an important plot point where Ned asked Cat to tell Rob (among other things) to secure the neck - and Cat did not do this. So as far as I’m aware the Reeds did not receive ordered to secure the neck and did not officially provide troopers to Rob

[@kbdodds7062]

Robb wanted them to hold the Neck. He sent Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover on a mission to find Howland Reed and deliver the message, but as far as I know they haven’t been heard from since.

[@datumzinememories]

Oddly the way people speak she committed suicide or the relationship. It oddly sounds like how someone would speak of lovers or someone who socially commits suicide or tried sliced due to a lover. Had someone interceded on there part people could of said suicide and there could of been a confusion that she died in real life is someone who had to remove themselves from society. She almost sounds like a courtsean like how to engage but not breach sounds like things would be purely more of her own terms.

[@kijanigolkosh9532]

The one thing I'm curious about in Jojen paste theory is who sacrificed Jojen then turned him into paste? I doubt it was Meera, Bran, Hodor. Bloodraven is fused to the tree. Was it the Children of the forest that are hiding in the caverns/tunnels? Maybe the Weirwood went Little Shop of Horrors on Jojen.

[@moversrus4048]

Kijani Gol'Kosh remember there are other children also hooked up feeding the tree, I doubt the tree put them there. The Children would have put them there along with BloodRaven so they would have killed Jojen and used magic to turn him into paste.

[@tinamcintyre6508]

One has to wonder? Why once Robert was dead and no longer a threat, did Ned not reveal at least to Jon, Jon's parentage?

[@noragriffin6432]

Ned was in King's Landing under arrest. Cersie and the Lannisters would have killed Jon to protect Joffrey's claim to the throne.

[@NIVEA815]

is gemma okay? missing her .

[@pastlife960]

I reckon I’m S8 the goodies will lose the Battle of Winterfell and flee South. Jon will have heard the truth from Bran and not really believed it, but he will try to fly in Rhaegal to escape the WWs. Rhaegal will be injured by Viserion and crash land in the neck. The dragon will die but Jon will be saved by the Crannogmen. Meera and Howland will meet him at Greywater and will confirm Jon’s parentage to him. At least I hope that will happen.

[@moversrus4048]

OG VH yea no lol

[@O_Towne_Bear]

So, descendants of First Men and the Children Of The Forest? Or something deeper rooted? (pun accidentally intended) Also: Could Benjen have been the Knight Of The Laughing Tree? Red laughing face (he had red wine poured over him by Lyanna) he was the "pup". And that's part of the reason he joined the Watch - I don't know, I am just grasping here.

[@1jasondpta]

If Howland is really this powerful, is it such a given that Lyanna was the Knight Of The Laughing Tree? If he can control the earth certainly he could rig a few jousts.

[@metamutualguruist65]

So far all magic requires blood sacrifice and aside from within the past couple years hasn't been powerful in hundreds of years.

[@TheKerryRecruit]

Mind = Blown

[@PalmelaHanderson]

Logistical question about Dornish customs: If the Dornish custom is for the eldest child, regardless of gender, to inherit, does that also mean that whatever man marries the female heir would choose to take HER name instead of vice versa? Or, if a female is to inherit a castle, would it become her duty to not have any children? It has to be one of those two scenarios, otherwise all of the Dornish castles/ruling houses would be switching houses all the time.

[@PalmelaHanderson]

@ So then all of their children would carry on the name of their mother, not the father? I.e. if Arianne Martell were to wed, say...Renly Baratheon (I know, sword swallower, bad example). Their children would be Martells, not Baratheons? Otherwise Dorne would become ruled by the Baratheons the next generation. That raises another sticky situation where Dorne would clash with different regions over inheritance claims all the time. To avoid conflict, Renly, in this situation, would have to formally renounce any and all claims of inheritance from the Baratheon line along with any and all of his progeny, for all time. Edit: I suppose it's never really started *why* Dorne is constantly fighting with the Marcher lords, but it would make sense if the reason is because of constant dynastic disputes every time they intermarry. A Dornish person marries someone from the Stormlands or the Reach and it's pretty much guaranteed there would be a war fought over it a generation or two later, given the different inheritance laws.

@@PalmelaHanderson Dornish have always tnought of themselves as being a bit 'special' because they're not part of the seven Kingdoms by conquest, but by marriage and politically negotiated terms. That allows them, alone among the seven, to keep their status as a principality rather than a vassal state, giving them more autonomy over their internal administration, laws and armies. Ethnically, they're the only Kingdom with a predominantly Rhoynish population, so they're seen as having a lick of the essos tarbrush about them. Strategically, they're a kind of buffer zone between Westeros and the Free Cities of Essos, yet they remain relatively poor despite this. But that doesn't matter . . . for I've kissed the Dornishman's Wife. (The Dornish are notorious degenerates)

[@2HRTS1LOVE]

@ I thought it was Saxe-Coburg. Pretty sure, actually. And iirc, the Mountbatten name was added some sort of way, at Philip's insistence. They are still the house of Windsor, but the kids' individual names are hyphenated. Something like that.

@@2HRTS1LOVE The British line of the Battenbergs are the Earls of Mountbatten. The Queen and Prince Philip were introduced by the Queen's Cousin, Lord Louis Mountbatten who was also Prince Philip's Uncle. There are rumours saying Louis Mountbatten might also have been Charles's father. Before that, there was talk of him being Philip's real father too. He was the mastermind behind the partition of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh too, which resulted in a million deaths from sectarian violence in ten days. Eventually the IRA blew him up for being a cunt.

[@otilaangel1076]

First and stoked about it!

[@adamwarlock8263]

sorry, i dont know how to spell jemma. youre so fuckin right. the show is folding in on itself. lettuce dream of spring!

[@jaynereedakamadamsarge7470]

Of the Reeds of the Isle of Many Hills

[@gypsyfirefleye7759]

If someone wanted House Reed + House Stark... why? To what end?

[@morgankirk7382]

The Neck remembers...

[@No1important88]

Where are you thinking of when Brandon says that he could “taste the blood”?

[@glanwen10969]

Where were Howland and Meera during the battle of Winterfell? Why were they not in there, they should have been in Winterfell like all the other bannermen of Starks!

[@ninreck5121]

"he came done to do stuff" stuff being ashara

[@chrisconnor8086]

Do you think that if Bran ate people while warged into Summer (wow what a name hahahaha) that it would increase his greensight?

[@kbdodds7062]

Chris Connor It probably would if he ate a greenseer. But that’s against the warg code - an abomination according to Varamyr Sixskins.

[@KenDelloSandro7565]

Every single group in Westeros lives off the land and wear clothes from the land. Cotton and all fabrics are from the land ( sheep and all animals are of the land).They have no laboratory made synthetic materials that i know about ......

[@emma_green]

Yes!

[@Pomshka]

Listening to Fire and Blood again for like the sixth time and just had a random thought for the TV show. I highly doubt any of Dany's dragons will survive the show. I doubt Dany would build another Dragon pit (because dragons need to be free) and they cannot be allowed to fly free as they'd just go around burning and killing people without riders. So I believe that either the dragons will all die in the battle or that Dany and John will HAVE to kill them? Everyone has resigned to the fact that on the TV show Dany is pregnant with John's child. What if Viserion's death has paid for that babies life? Soo if Drogon and Rhaegal die, what if she's actually pregnant with triplets? ..... Like the original conquers, Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys? People have probably thought of this before me 🙈 But it just kinda dawned on me while listening to the final bit of the dance of dragon's.

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

Minimum preparation! Gemma rules.

[@HerbstaMagus]

The Crannogmen remind me of Finnish people... I am a Finnish-American XD.

[@davidrios1270]

Love it!

[@Jesscrayons]

Not to get all tin foil hat but I very much think the Reed kids ended up picking up the wrong wolf and that blood Raven wanted John. I mean think about it if not John why is Dunks foot so important.

[@nicoleackerman205]

Actually that is what happened on How I met your mother

[@xtxond]

Wouldn't a winged wolf be Jon?

[@AUPackmule]

xtxond Bran could fly. Plus he is crippled. Jon is a great thought though.

[@Godisgood13208]

Did any of house read join robs army?

[@ewanmacdonald8466]

erick smith no they did not

[@monkeytron6858]

Your faith in the show runners is misplaced.

[@santeri7843]

Children OTF = The Women/ Chronic Men = The Guys OTF??

[@sheilahilton356]

Ashara was not with Howland Reed. Goodness, how would she survive in a bog? Why would she be kept a secret from everyone in the North. Catelyn thought she was Jon’s mother. This is the most nonsensical theory I have ever heard.

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Sheila Hilton I agree with you. Howland and Ashara are both interesting characters but I can’t be convinced that Ashara, a vivacious woman in the spring of her bloom, would be content living hidden away in a bog. Granted, no one knows what goes on in that bog but considering that it appears there is very little interaction between the Crannogmen and Westerosi, I can’t think it would be a very lively place. No new ideas, no exciting visitors. And on top of all this, her brother Arthur has to die? Why again? To protect Jon Snow? Couldn’t Arthur just have sown an oath of secrecy? I don’t deny that the Daynes seem to love Ned but the Howland - Ashara theory doesn’t seem to me to support their esteem of him. I think it makes more sense if Ashara was Septa Lemore. The personalities of both seem similar.

[@mrpepperkaka2000]

First!

[@aaronweers8697]

The biggest secret here is how a nerd like Howland hooked up with the hottest chick in the realm.