How a philosophy professor found God after 25 years of atheism | John Wise | Unapologetic 1/2

[@stagename2]

My experience in finding “faith” unreasonable and walking away to make sense of the world is similar. After many years in a technical field, I came to the same conclusion that faith is inescapable, its just a matter of where you choose to put it. I choose to put it in Christ every day now. His peace and a sense of profound gratitude fills my home now. To him be the glory!

[@Theo_Skeptomai]

Please define the term 'faith' as you're employing it.

[@El_Bruno7510]

So you also were a Christian, walked away and came back to it? How did you dismiss all the other religions that claim to be true with the same lack of evidence?

[@tommore3263]

Christ offers the only radically coherent worldview from every perspective including the philosophical, evolutionary and psychological. The real deal as traditional Christianity has claimed rightly.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@tommore3263 No it doesn't. Natural causes for absolutely everything is absolutely 100% coherent. How do you eliminate other religions from your assertion?

[@goldwhitedragon]

@@El_Bruno7510 false dichotomy.

[@justaguy328]

I was an atheist for a couple decades, and I convinced myself that the reason I didn't believe was because there was no evidence. But God kept this very tiny, completely insignificant memory in my head, though I did all I could to subconsciously bury it. I remember being a young boy, maybe 10 or so and I'm walking in a hotel hallway with my mom, and I can vividly remember the thought going through my head, "I wish there was no God, then I could do whatever I wanted." The Bible was completely right about rejecting God because of unrighteousness. I was so blind to my real motivations. I didn't want there to be a God, and I did everything I could to convince myself that God didn't exist. I was such a fool.

[@joerdim]

Newsflash: There is still no evidence for any god.

[@ckritsdesir]

Amen! Praise God brother!

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

God can find the tiniest entrances! I was raised in a Roman Catholic household, and when my Mother told me, as a child, I had to be good to go to heaven, I knew I was doomed, so may as well live like it, and enjoy myself. PTL, He reached me through the lies and deceptions of life. (Sin is only enjoyable for a short season, before it turns and mauls the flesh).

[@gregjones2217]

Still a failure.

[@lonnierandall7882]

@@joerdim All there is is evidence for God. When you look in the mirror you see evidence of God. That you exist is proof that God exists. That you think and create is evidence that you are made in the image of God. Matter is supernatural. Inanimate matter becoming alive is supernatural. Consciousness is supernatural.

[@JoeyD386]

In military I lost my faith. To be honest, I was of little faith before then. This continued for many years. In early September of 2020 I was hit with a HORRIBLE and crippling episode of anxiety and depression. I even consider the S word. I couldn't shake the feeling and I'd NEVER felt that way - ever. There were times I'd just have to lay in bed because the anxiety was just too much. I tried marijuana to ease the pain but all it did was full the pain for a little while and then the pain was right back after me. A friend told me to go talk to a psychiatrist and pop the pills I'd be prescribed. I hated that thought and out of desperation I turned to God. I had nowhere else to turn so I called on Jesus for help. And did He ever! He was there for me when all else failed. I was/am a sinner and I struggle but I don't feel the way I did then. I can feel I'm on a righteous path now. I didn't deserve it, but He saved me yet, again. Even when I rejected Him, He was there for me during my darkest hour - I just had to stop turning away, and turn to Him, instead.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

Leo: Exactly what did Jesus do for you? Please elaborate.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@anonymousjohnson976 Jesus did for him what he wanted Jesus to do for him. He has faith that Jesus answers certain questions and fulfills certain needs. I understand it...I just think it would be an ill founded faith for me. Either whatever value Jesus or any other deity provided was based on reasons or it was a fiction and irrational. If there are reasons for what Jesus says we are to value, then it's really those reasons that provide the basis and Jesus is just the trusted messenger...an emotional crutch. If there are no reasons and the values are arbitrary, Jesus is merely a place holder for a fiction and still a crutch. One is no closer to finding value by believing in values that have no reason/rationale than them having no values at all. Maybe he simply found something that pacified him and gave him peace. That is wonderful...IMHO. We shouldn't challenge that since it seems he was at his wits end. Sometimes folks need a fiction to believe in. Did you ever watch the movie Secondhand Lions? Watch it and listen to Robert Duval's Hub's speech on what every young man needs to know. He admits it's not real, but it's valuable nonetheless. I find value in the natural world and my life. It is as solidly founded as any theist's values which seems to be based on a deity he really knows nothing about except what ancient texts or his (or other people's) imaginations tell them.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

@@rizdekd3912 : I somewhat agree, Rizdek. It's like "don't burst the bubble they are living in by advising them of the facts." Jesus also said: "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" and "If you do not hate your family, you cannot be my disciple." "Hate your family" and "bringing a sword" doesn't sound too valuable or rational.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@anonymousjohnson976 Luckily most people explain away and ignore the more ridiculous memes attributed to Jesus and sanely glom onto the better admonitions. That is why I contend people have an independent (of God) system of values and morality because they don't hesitate to challenge the more absurd admonitions/laws/rules they hear from the pulpit, from other 'Christians' and from the Bible and carefully select those that make sense to them.

[@marcocortes9968]

My cousin grew in church, we used to go to missions with the youth group and share about the gospel. He now considers himself an atheist, because he believes there are questions no one will ever answer, no matter what, no matter the amount of evidence. He has since developed a pretty bad anxiety, and delved into philosophy (especially from ancient greece). I feel like my cousin has had a similar a experience to you, and I want to ask you for advice in sharing about God. Because he has told me he no longer wants me to talk about God when I’m around him. I know Jesus can get rid of the anxiety, because he promises he brings peace beyond understanding. I’ve felt it, and He also tells us that to not be anxious of what might happen.

[@chrismachin2166]

When I was young I started counting and thought where does it end ? I counted and realised you can never get to the end,it goes on forever. What is forever and what is infinity,I thought.I knew in my heart infinity was another name for God the Creator. My sadness is it took over 50 years for God to change my heart. I am forever thankful I received the undeserved gift of Grace.

[@gusgibsaints]

That is so pathetic 🙄 I don't know the answer, therefore the Western idealised God...despite all logic and science...how convenient.

[@chrismachin2166]

@@gusgibsaints God has declared His Eternal Power and Divine Nature are clear to see,so people are without excuse. Your hostility to your Creator is clearly seen in your post. The “Good News” is repentance and faith in Jesus Christ will give you Eternal peace with the true living God. Read the Bible and ask yourself,”who was Jesus Christ.” God Bless.

[@gusgibsaints]

@@chrismachin2166 You are an idiot.

[@gusgibsaints]

@@chrismachin2166 I cannot have hostility to something that doesn't exist!

[@chrismachin2166]

@@gusgibsaints ..was listening to the radio the other day. An eight year old asked the professor,” This “Big Bang “ you talk about, who created it? The professor said , “ some people have the theory it started from nothing”. 😂

[@MrChrispy777]

At 14 years of age, I saw a movie in the theater, all by myself, called "Beyond and Back." It was about "Near Death Experiences," and had me in a funk for days. My hormones were raging, and the world was in a mess, and I wanted God to make sense of it all, just for me. I fought hard to know the TRUTH, and in two years, I received the answer, at 16. I had asked God to make it plain to me, and and when it entered my ears, it rang true in my heart and my spirit. A friend of the family was out with me and my dad, at a bar/restaurant in Easton, PA.This man, nicknamed, "Scotty," was talking all about end-time prophecies, from the bible, mainly from Revelation, regarding the impending judgment of God, the Creator of all things. My dad ignored most of what he said, but occasionally threw out a lame defense, being a non-practicing Catholic. Everything Scotty was saying rang true, and had me rattled to my core. When my dad left to pay the check, I found my knees were also rattling under the table. I asked Scotty how I could get saved from these horrible judgments, and he told me the gospel message, plain and clear. He looked surprised, not realizing that I had been paying attention, and was worried about my soul's eternal destination. He told me I was born a sinner, and that was the reason Christ came to earth. Jesus lived a sinless life, and offered His life for mine. He suffered a cruel and unjust death, was buried, and rose from the dead. He took my place, and offers me eternal life for merely trusting Him, for dying in my place. My sins would be washed away, by simple faith in this plan, that God purposed, before He began creating anything, knowing Adam and Eve would fall. Believe and be saved, today! It cost NOTHING. It cost God everything.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Wow, you were one suggestible youngster weren't you! Do me a favour, if microsoft phone up to say you have a virus, don't believe them!

[@MrChrispy777]

@@El_Bruno7510 My dad said as much. God said "Ask, and ye shall receive. Seek, and ye shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened unto you." God would not mislead me. Yes, I was younger and impressionable, but it was towards the TRUTH. No harm, no foul.

[@hongotedesco8931]

Wow bro, you really drank that koolaid. It's all just myth, there is no "jesus", no need to be saved, etc. Just be good, and do it NOT because you'll get some reward in the afterlife (since there isn't one), but simply because it's our duty as humans to be good to each other.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@MrChrispy777 No. God did not say that. Some lying cultists wrote that God said that. You are falling for it! Delusion DOES mislead.

[@MrChrispy777]

@@El_Bruno7510 Now who's delusional! When you take your last breath, you will remember this conversation. Thank you for reading my personal testimony. I wrote a lot!

[@jobrown8146]

I had the opposite happen to me. My husband was not a Christian (although he did go to church up to the age of 16). There came a time when I seriously wondered if it would be easier to not be a Christian and I can still remember where I was and what I was doing about 35 years ago when I realised that I could not stop believing and trusting in Jesus.

[@CMVMic]

Not everyone grows out of the need for childish stories

[@joshuanadeem8898]

"I could not stop believing and trusting in Jesus". Amen! Praise the LORD Jesus Christ.

[@joshuanadeem8898]

@@CMVMic ....you mean stories like ex nihilo spontaneous universe or like Jesus Christ's Resurrection being a clever hoax/myth rather than Divine Prophetic Miracle?? Agreed, Some people really never do leave these fairytales sadly. May the LORD have mercy on there souls (and their mind).

[@joshuanadeem8898]

.... all due to their sins blinding their eyes & binding their heart. :( Thank God!! that there is Perfect Salvation from our evil sin & from hell given to us by the blood & death of Jesus Christ alone through living faith alone. Amen (Romans 5:8, 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-10)

[@CMVMic]

@@banmancan1894 you are conflating intuition with truth. Clearly, you can't read btwn the lines so let me be more specific. Children's stories are considered to be fables, fabrications, myths, falsehoods. Equivalent to beliefs in the Boogeyman, Santa or fairies. Also, a lack of belief in God doesn't entail a pessimistic attitude towards reality nor does finding life to have no inherent purpose prevent a person from creating their own purpose. We can give our own life meaning unlike you who relies on someone else to give your life meaning lol

[@LUC0R]

I am an atheist who is sincerely seeking truth. I have a hyper-rational, philosophical mind which obstructs me from resonating with the arguments for theism. This man speaks my language and I am excited for the possibility to be able to see what I’ve possibly struggled so hard to see.

[@El_Bruno7510]

You have truth already, you are an atheist! If and when any God is proven, we will all know. Just live your life until that point.

[@reillyyugehands481]

“ I do not want to believe in God. Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution.” - George Wald (This quote says it all)

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@reillyyugehands481 The quote shows the ignorance of George Wald! Science most definitely does not claim nor state that spontaneous generation is impossible and has shown that evolution is essentially fact. What is most definitely scientifically impossible based on our current understanding however, is for any God or supernatural being, to create life.

[@gerridrivard6673]

There is no evidence. It's out of our 5 senses. Out of our "mind". Seems like we just make a choice..."to believe or not to believe, that is the question". Which side will you take? It's up to you, and how you feel in the moment. However feeling and thoughts change. So that's why belief or faith is the rule.

[@jeffsatterthwaite3167]

The bible is clear that no one rejects God due to lack of evidence (Romans 1). However, some books you may find interesting from a scientific perspective are: The Design Revolution by William Dembski; Darwin's Doubt, Signature in the Cell and The Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer,; Darwin's Black Box and Darwin Devolves by Michael Behe; Icons of Evolution by Jonathan Edwards; I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Frank Turek; The Devil's Delusion by David Berlinski. God bless you!!!

[@seaknightvirchow8131]

This is a good discussion. I was not looking for God at all but in crisis I asked if he is really there. The next morning, for some reason, I pulled an old Bible I never read and it fell open to Isaiah where God promises to abundantly pardon a wicked man if he will turn from his ways. He said that his word goes out and does not return without that which he sent it for. I know this is subjective but the words were alive and burned in my heart like no text has ever done. I have had similar experiences since then but I have also found objective rational reasons to believe. First, Christ’s words resonate with me. If I stop to question whether I am deluded or not, I consider the creation and prophecy in the Bible. Apart from a creator, one is left with materialism which fails as explanatory of the biology of the cell and life. It fails to account for the origin of matter and energy. It fails to account for conceptual, universal, discoverable things like numbers. It fails to explain consciousness, moral obligation, art, beauty, literature, music, or philosophy. I enjoyed this discussion. Of course there is mystery and faith is always a component of our epistemology.

[@emmanintz6448]

I'm happy for you. You will find that the more extreme & single-minded you are in your attention to the Lord, the greater the synchronicity you'll experience. BTW, mathematicians & physicists have proven that space-time CANNOT BE the ultimate reality. A couple of them were awarded a Nobel Prize for it. This is my 22nd year with the Lord Jesus, and I'm so glad to be free from the lies and delusion that form this world. "Draw nigh to God, and He'll draw nigh to you." Bless you.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@emmanintz6448 Any reference for your space/time nonsense? Or do you mean that our local (our universes) representation of space time is only thought to be true for our universe? I take it you are 21?

[@emmanintz6448]

@@El_Bruno7510 Lack of locality proves non-ultimacy, i.e., unreality. If you can use a web search as well as you dish out contempt, then perhaps you'll suss it out.

[@minnaraitinpaa6834]

The turning point was when in crisis you asked God if He is really there. When you seek God He will answer. One can know the Bible inside and out, study theology, whatever and never know God. You knock and He opens.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@emmanintz6448 Or alternatively if you cannot explain what you mean in simple terms then one wonders what your motivation is for that. Leaving it open to interpretation leaves your meaning open to misinterpretation. Using word salad to obfuscate is not clever it is suspicious.

[@paulhaynes3688]

It is far better to have questions that can’t be answered , than to have answers that can’t be questioned

[@mrafard]

poor reasoning sir. All things can be explained

[@paulhaynes3688]

@@mrafard You have not thought that through have you.

[@mrafard]

@@paulhaynes3688 yes i have, dont underestimate the mind

[@paulhaynes3688]

@@mrafard l never underestimate the mind evolution has given us

[@rizdekd3912]

@@paulhaynes3688 Your original pithy statement rings true with me. I would much rather hold things in limbo than come down on a side not supported by enough evidence. I don't just humbly admit my atheism is tentative, but proudly declare it. At any moment, I may have some sort of epiphany that leads me to believe some sort of god just might exist. I have no idea what would trigger that epiphany and I have no idea what that god might be nor that the realization of its existence would inform my everyday life. I would still be fairly certain that I don't know what said god is, does or wants. Even if I got strong thoughts about it...I'd be suspicious that those thoughts are not reliable. Perhaps the existence of god and believing in that god is as academic as my opinion of the Higgs boson or what causes gravity. Whatever gravity causes/does I've grown accustomed to dealing with it...whatever the Higgs boson does it does without my leave and I accommodate it in my day to day life, so other than academic interest, I neither know nor care about the explanation of those phenomena. Gravity MIGHT be the warping of time and space or it might be due to an infinite number of godly angels tugging on everything from atoms to energy to light waves causing the to appear to react to matter/energy. So the same would go for a god...whatever god is or does, it is apparently active in the world in which I live and I'm none the wiser for it and have just learned to live with it.

[@jessewallace12able]

I got to a point where I took diesm, agnosticism, atheism, materialism to it’s furthest point spiritualy… it became so depressing, to “create” my own meaning of existence, to look at consciousness as a complex of a lot of little tricks that are only mechanisms of material formed by evolution, as Dan Dennet would have it. I looked everywhere, from ancient Indian materialists, to the skeptics of ancient Greece, to Lucretius, to Hitchens, to Frued, and accepted it. I accepted that there was still morality, and meaning, but in my heart I didn’t believe it. The probelm of evil, had the reverse effect on me. I can’t accept that evil exists and it has no consequences. That 4 kids at a University could be stabbed to death and the worst thing that happens ti the killer is he gets put to sleep, and that’s it. I think about eternity. That the killer, myself, and everyone will dissapear for eternity. And I noticed something very and obviously wrong about that assumption. If any of us (atheists included), including Camus, truly believed that when we die, there is nothing and we dissapear forever- we would not do anything on earth, we would not care. Even if the athiest is proud if himself for being “truthful” it doesn’t matter. The proud and “honest” atheist dies and nothing he did while alive mattered- he will no nothing of the life he lived, there would be no point at all, no meaning in being “honest”, it would not matter at all. It may well be that life had never occurred. And to me, that is obviously not what’s going on here… and that’s the beginning of my journey to belief in God and his son Jesus. How I got there is a whole other story. It has not been easy, however it is real. It’s such a gift.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Why did it get depressing to create your own meaning for existence? What have you got as a reason to live now that you could not find without a God? How full of self importance do you need to be to require that your life 'means' something greater than those that knew you will remember you after you have died? Atheist or theist, our lives will both have the same meaning when we have died. Believing in a God does not change that!

[@stephen2975]

@@El_Bruno7510 Not true! The Christian does not die! Christ is the first born from the dead! And if the Spirit that raised up Christ from the dead dwells in you, you also will not die but live, as Christ is alive so shall you be! Jesus said, God is God of the living not the dead! All those who belong to God are alive! The sinner cannot receive this because he is dead! Faith is not a belief, but a substance given by God on condition of repentance! The sinner cannot receive this it makes no sense to him, his sins stand in the way!

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@stephen2975 Those are just assertions. You have no way of knowing that they are true. You believe they are but you do not and cannot know for sure. You sound like the kind of irrational preachy type that was indoctrinated from birth into your belief? Extremely unconvincing. Why is Allah wrong - because you believe it so? Muslims believe the opposite with the same conviction you have. Neither of you can prove your belief.

[@stephen2975]

@@El_Bruno7510My approach is rational We know for sure many things are true, for instance, we know theft is bad etc, etc we don't need evidence to believe, we know that we know! We know we are sinners, selfish by nature, and that it is selfishness that is at the root of all the evil in the world! Who else offers a cure for selfishness? I Don't know any other apart from Jesus Christ! If you know of any other that claims a cure let me know, I haven't heard of any! Read the sermon on the mount, who can argue with that? I know without any doubt selfishness is man's problem and it has certainly been mine! If your religion cannot cure you of this evil then either you are false or your religion is!

[@XSD.1.]

@@stephen2975 What you think about Buddhism? There is focus on unselfishness too in order to get free of suffering

[@Hreodrich]

One thing that happened to me when I was about 9 years old that stayed with me the entire 15 years that I was an atheist was an experience of sitting in the back of my grandmothers car during a long drive somewhere. I was (as boys often will) thinking about a pornography magazine I had seen earlier that week at school. Out of nowhere, legitimately out of nowhere the phrase “Roman’s 8:6” popped into my head. I had never read the Bible at 9 years old. The only verse I knew was John 3:16. I had no idea what Roman’s 8:6 said but I was stuck with the feeling that I should look it up. I grabbed the Bible that was in the back seat compartment (my grandma, being southern Baptist always had a Bible nearby) And flipped to Roman’s 8:6. That synchronicity stayed with me ever since. It alone wasn’t something that I considered compelling evidence even at a young age as I went on to decide that religion was all false and made up for years after that, but I had to shelf this experience and avoid thinking about it because it was so uncanny. Fast forward to 30 years old and I have come back to Christ for a number of other reasons but I do look back and marvel at that moment and realize that the cookie crumbs are there if you open your eyes to them. He was never far away despite how far away I tried to run.

[@whittfamily1]

It was not and still is not compelling evidence. Given that your grandmother was steeped in religion, you probably heard "Romans 8:6" from her or one of your other family members or friends.

[@lauramann8275]

I have had many similar experiences throughout my life. There is something called "knowing" that I have become consciously aware of in my relationship with the Holy Spirit. God can put things in our heads to where we "just know" something. He definitely communicates with us in many ways! The church service I attended last Sunday actually talked about this very thing! God is SO GOOD! There are so many stories out there like this!

[@whittfamily1]

@@lauramann8275 LM: I have had many similar experiences throughout my life. There is something called "knowing" that I have become consciously aware of in my relationship with the Holy Spirit. GW: What relationship? I believe that you probably have an imaginary relationship with an imaginary person. Your knowledge is of a subjective experience, not a real person. LM: God can put things in our heads to where we "just know" something. GW: He could if he existed, but we now know that he doesn’t exist. LM: He definitely communicates with us in many ways! GW: Nonsense. If God did exist, then he would communicate with us in one way - in current, frequent and/or regular, direct, clear, unambiguous, universal, and objective (verbal) press conferences with atheists, theists, agnostics, and others at the same time. Why would he do this? Because he would be all-powerful and perfectly moral. But this communication has never occurred. Therefore, God does not exist. It is as simple as that. LM: The church service I attended last Sunday actually talked about this very thing! God is SO GOOD! There are so many stories out there like this! GW: More nonsense. If God were good, as you claim, then he would have prevented the Holocaust and the Covid pandemic. That’s what good persons with great power actually do - prevent horrible harms. Your god is too small; he is not God.

[@Hreodrich]

@@whittfamily1 that’s a perfectly rational explanation to lean on. I did for many years as a way to explain it away. In order to do so though, i had to lie to myself about what I actually experienced. The moment presented itself with an announcement that I can’t do justice with words. It was a very apparent synchronicity to put it mildly. Yes I may have at some point heard someone utter the words “Romans 8:6” but I had no idea to what those words referred. Imagine for a moment that the words “Ezekiel 3:14” just appeared in your minds ear for seemingly no reason. Do you know what that verse says? My guess is you’d have to look it up because most people don’t have the Bible photo copied in their minds to reference. The content of the verse was completely opaque to me and that was what drove me to feel compelled to look it up. If there was some part of my mind that knew the words “Roman’s 8:6” and also knew the entire verse, knew the relationship between them, recognized the timing and context of what I was doing at that moment and how they were all connected…then It ran all of those calculations at a level completely outside my awareness and behaved as though there was a part of my mind beneath my awareness that was acting as a separate entity and basically yelling at me while I was otherwise completely oblivious. It remains interesting to me to this day, to say the least.

[@whittfamily1]

@@Hreodrich H: that’s a perfectly rational explanation to lean on. I did for many years as a way to explain it away. In order to do so though, i had to lie to myself about what I actually experienced. GW: So many people lie to themselves and later discover it. (Actually, one part of the brain lies to another part of the brain.) H: The moment presented itself with an announcement that I can’t do justice with words. It was a very apparent synchronicity to put it mildly. GW: Coincidences are ubiquitous. We don’t need supernaturalism to explain them. H: Yes I may have at some point heard someone utter the words “Romans 8:6” but I had no idea to what those words referred. GW: Yes, that is possible, especially if you heard the words as a child. H: Imagine for a moment that the words “Ezekiel 3:14” just appeared in your minds ear for seemingly no reason. GW: Even though there seems to be no reason, there is a natural explanation for this happening. We will not always be able to discern it, however. H: Do you know what that verse says? My guess is you’d have to look it up because most people don’t have the Bible photo copied in their minds to reference. GW: I have read the Bible twice, but I do not recall that particular verse or even most verses. H: The content of the verse was completely opaque to me and that was what drove me to feel compelled to look it up. If there was some part of my mind that knew the words “Roman’s 8:6” and also knew the entire verse, knew the relationship between them, recognized the timing and context of what I was doing at that moment and how they were all connected…then It ran all of those calculations at a level completely outside my awareness and behaved as though there was a part of my mind beneath my awareness that was acting as a separate entity and basically yelling at me while I was otherwise completely oblivious. It remains interesting to me to this day, to say the least. GW: Sure, I can see why you’d be interested. I am interested too, but I don’t believe for a second that there was anything supernatural involved in this. We now know that God does not exist; this has been proven. Also, even if God did exist, the Bible could not be his message.

[@joyh.729]

Thank you both for this important conversation!

[@t10mcg]

Most intriguing interview! Looking forward to “part 2”. It was actually refreshing. My son walked away from his faith as a older teen. Many of his points and reasoning makes sense and I could agree or acknowledge that. What eventually I told him it comes down to for me is simply- my life is just better with Jesus and studying the Bible. Acknowledging it takes faith and Christianity could all be BS but it actually elevates my life and those around me so I’m willing to have faith and believe. It’s real for me. When it comes down to it I don’t have a hole proof defense other than my changed life in all ways. That’s why this interview was so interesting to me. Thanks for sharing.

[@gusgibsaints]

It really IS BS! There is no empirical truth of any God.

[@justin10292000]

@@gusgibsaints So say you. You are wrong, but don't take MY word for it: you will find out for yourself soon enough!

[@gusgibsaints]

Just be nice and don't hurt anyone. You don't need religion.

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

@@gusgibsaints Did you miss the part where she said her life is better in all ways by believing and studying scripture?

[@gusgibsaints]

Yes. It saddened me. But if she was happy believing in blue fairies I suppose that makes it alright.

[@lilyapura449]

Thank God for what you do Justin and John. I will listen and refer John's podcast to my students and friends.

[@gusgibsaints]

Thank nobody

[@Muslim-man1]

"Thank god" Atheists are always dump ! Subhana'allah

[@HarryNicNicholas]

go watch dr wise talking to tom jump, cos i got the impression wise is a bit, you know, learning difficulties.

[@shanewagner9431]

For the record there are 2 sides to johns story carful who you look up to

[@sentientexplorer]

I love reading these testimonies. I had 3 dreams of Jesus in the space of a week a few weeks ago. Prior to these dreams I was experiencing an existential crisis. My life has been full of pain and regret and I have a hard time living with who I am. Jesus came to me and I received the message self forgiveness coming via him. I have tried everything to fill that gaping dark hole inside of me. I knocked on my vicars door and explained my dream. I must have come across as crazy but something compelled me to do it. We are meeting up every week now so he can help me develop a relationship with Jesus. I pray I may finally find some peace❤

[@RooniP]

He says "Seek and you will find, ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will open," May God's love fill and comfort you, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...Amen

[@melissaconner9538]

Great conversation! I really enjoyed this.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Resume for lazy people : he doesn't make any serious and reasonable argument. He just converted because of his wife and he believes atheism is not justifiable

[@martifingers]

Interesting story that raises all sorts of questions. For me the statement "If you were a Christian now I would marry you tomorrow" is worth a whole episode in itself.

[@whittfamily1]

It's similar to "If you became a Christian now, I will send you to heaven instead of hell tomorrow."

[@justincapable]

Converted to Christianity for a woman. The rest of the interview is his rationalization for the conversion. One more story for the Pinecreek hypothesis.

[@jguenther3049]

Motivated reasoning...The Elephant under us...Justin Brierley's well-balanced commentary...all so good. But the best thing was finding this is "Part 1." Onward to Part 2!

[@dberjian]

I am very much moved by this man's heroic story. I don't know if I could survive through such a harrowing experience.

[@gusgibsaints]

There's nothing heroic in returning to religion. The moral opposite.

[@marlonrodriguez1169]

@@gusgibsaints it looks like you are the one that Believes in Magic since you believe that everything came from nothing😂😂😂😂

[@gusgibsaints]

@@marlonrodriguez1169 I actually have no answers, only observations and my biggest gripe is the assertion that a 2000 year old book has any bearing on reality in the light of science and logic. You should look at Christopher Hitchens videos, it might help you.

[@marlonrodriguez1169]

@@gusgibsaints hitchens has no idea how life was formed. You should look at Dr James Tour so you can see that no one has ever made life in a Lab until now. Who ever says that evolution is true believes in Magic.

[@topologyrob]

@@gusgibsaints It's brilliant to find freedom by outgrowing atheism. Try it, you'll like it. Time to grow up.

[@PaulAngeloff]

Wow. Having listened to every word John Wise has said I am truly gobsmacked at the irony of his surname

[@jlouis4407]

OK Paul

[@tommore3263]

Good stuff. I had a similar experience but it was following the sacrament of reconciliation, or confession at a Catholic church which I have discovered to be the original and true church despite all our human failings. Her bishops approved what we call the BIBLE and get to bind and loose in that manner of teaching and forgiveness. This is NOT to deny God loving and seeking out all people or to deny the real and beautiful experiences of Christ in other religions. I quickly could see that Christ was either in the original Catholic church or in some outfit nobody ever heard of. Her teaching on divorce in particular set her apart. And the first hand link to the apostles. ... now called bishops. Cheers.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

he is a bit slow isn't he.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@tommore3263 tl;dr if you want to get a message over, make it concise, this is the internet. i went to a crappy state school in the 60's but even they taught how to write engaging english.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@jlouis4407 wise is a bit dim.

[@MegaCrazy110]

I relate so much as I'm an agnostic and former Christian too, looking forward to the 2nd half!

[@petethepeg2]

Wow ,such a great podcast and so many rich and thoughtful and reflective comments below which is so refreshing 😊

[@adamclark1972uk]

You should make that into a fridge magnet or something.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

really? you saw it that way?

[@BigVK19]

I grew up in a Christian home. Since an early age I have been afraid of sinning and committing an unpardonable sin and ending up in hell forever and ever. Over time, I've become an agnostic atheist, but fear of Hell is still with me occasionally. Thanks to Jesus. And here I thought he was a very loving being.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

God's "love" is conditional, not unconditional, if he puts forth such a punishment as being tortured forever. It is not love at all in any sense.

[@jlouis4407]

@@anonymousjohnson976 Love has limits, with anyone. He is loving but also completely just.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

@@jlouis4407 : BS, you christians keep stating that god is all about love, love, love, and we just point out to you that this is not the case and you know it. God is not just. Anyone in their right mind would know that the "hell" scenario is not just at all and it is "conditional" love as I stated, not "unconditional." Why would you think anyone would deserve to be burned forever and ever and ever and ever? We, as humans, don't even carry out that kind of punishment, because we are more moral than god.

[@martifingers]

@@jlouis4407 And He invented the rules that constitute justice? Why those particular rules?

[@jlouis4407]

@@martifingers Because they are good in and of themself, God does not make something wrong by saying it’s wrong it’s wrong and God says that it’s wrong because it is.

[@jimwilson1889]

Excellent Life Story of Professor Wise's Journey!

[@El_Bruno7510]

Suspicious life story more like!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

wise ought to change his name, he seems slightly mentally ill to me.

[@june-ph7qv]

A great and interesting conversation! Eager to get to the second part.

[@nadjaj5290]

This is a nice testimony. Thank you.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

Nadja: Testimonies are not facts. We must deal in facts to find the actual truth.

[@nadjaj5290]

@@anonymousjohnson976 no shit, Sherlock!

[@himynameisjohnwumsh7631]

@@anonymousjohnson976 what if the testimony is true?

[@ramonfabular1022]

A lot of lost souls here in this threads. Repent and there is still hope for your soul. Jesus bless all our journeys to Him. ✌✝️🙏

[@davidkwong3369]

Thank God all of you came into the light and I pray you find new joy in this new world of reason

[@El_Bruno7510]

"Thank God" juxtaposed with "world of reason"! Now there's an oxymoronic phrasing!

[@davidkwong3369]

@@El_Bruno7510 I’m sorry you don’t like positive uplifting of others and I hope you have a better day😀🙏!

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@davidkwong3369 I'm fine with uplifting. I just draw the line at baseless assertion. I'm having a wonderful day. I hope the same of you.

[@horridhenry9920]

What struck me about this interview, which is rather surprising, given that John is a philosophy professor, is the lack of “intellectual issues “. I was hoping to find, if not evidence, some persuasive argument that God exists and he’s the Christian God. What I found is the all to human tragic story of sickness and death and lonely sexually repressed people finding each other. There are sacrifices and compromises in every relationship, John, unfortunately, had to sacrifice his critical thinking, which had prevented him from believing in God for 25 years to “find God”. So long as he is happy, I have no problem with that. Just as long as people realise that John finding God had nothing to do with him being a professor, just a lonely man satisfying biological urges.

[@martifingers]

Yes HH, my reaction too. I also found it striking how his beloved explicitly ruled out having a relationship with a nonbeliever. I am not passing judgement but it seemed an interesting aspect. Could I fall in love with someone whose faith I strongly disagreed with? Well I could see it could be an issue but it would certainly raise profound questions about the nature of love and faith. Some couples do manage this very well it seems. See the rather lovely episode on this channel "Giles Fraser & Amy-Jill Levine • Judaism & Christianity: Can we recover the Jewish Jesus?"

[@horridhenry9920]

@@martifingers From my experience of “love”, we do not choose who we fall in love with. Whether we seek to pursue our emotions and have a relationship with the subject of our love is another matter. Given that “love” is one of the strongest human emotions, if faith is a barrier to love, are you being true to yourself?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

dr wise is a really dumb professor.

[@interwebslinger]

I too, almost found my faith again when I got a crush on a beautiful girl. Luckily she started ghosting me, else I might have Holy Ghosted myself.

[@julesjgreig]

Very fruitful thank you

[@CMFelos]

I’ve heard the voice of God speak to me on so many occasions, and so many different ways. One of the most dramatic times I argued with him. He was true. But he came back a week later, saying the same exact things, and I argued with him again. I disagree that you can’t know God exists. My experience with him is completely contradictory to the idea of agnosticism. My faith is built on my experiences with him. In the end he won and I did what he wanted me to do that I didn’t want to do. And what he was telling me to do, to confront somebody about something, turned out, absolutely true. When the person asked me how I knew, I could only respond, God told me. So yes, you can absolutely know God is real but it’s supernatural for sure .

[@tomhitchcock8195]

Arrogance is the hallmark of atheism.

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

And ignorance is the hallmark of theism.

[@vinanddex]

For a philosophy professor I'm surprised that there is no real argument here beyond 1) this woman wanted me to be a Christian before she would marry me, 2) everyone has faith, even Atheists, so why not Christianity, which is balderdash. My Atheism is due to me not seeing evidence for a God. Theists are always trying to say I have faith in my reason that there is no God. Not so, I just haven't seen the evidence that their is.

[@tensevo]

Atheism it's not a new idea, the Greeks, the Jews, the Christians, all wrestle with God. Why? It's not about evidence of God, it's that atheism leads to nihilism and decay, which is not something you can build a civilization on.

[@vinanddex]

@@tensevo A god (some vengeful guy in the sky) is not needed for a moral code. Humans are capable of working out a moral code themselves and there has been a lot of work on this since the time of the Greeks (Socrates himself doubted the Gods). Secular Humanism can provide an alternative.

[@uncertainty7421]

Based on the lack of evidence, you believe that there is no god.

[@vinanddex]

@@uncertainty7421 I would word it this way - Based on the lack of evidence, I have no belief in a God.

[@uncertainty7421]

@@vinanddex is that agnosticism?🤔

[@GuyTato]

Hearing the story of your falling away and losing your wife absolutely crushed me. Like absolute waterfalls under my eyes 😭

[@peterfarrelly2437]

This man is right about one thing. Nobody knows anything, really. We can, however, convince ourselves of anything. He met a woman who he really loved who wouldn't marry him unless he became a Christian. So he became a Christian. Lots of people do this. Who is God? Nobody knows. If there is a God nobody has came back after death to explain what or who God is.

[@hongotedesco8931]

Um....no. This "nobody knows anything really" is false. We know a lot of things, but we certainly don't know everything. We discover something new everyday, and we will continue to do so until we go extinct. Eg, one thing we do know is that all of the gods *described* in these ancient texts have a 99.9999% probability of being false...just pure invention by ancient humans trying to make sense of the unanswerable.

[@peterfarrelly2437]

@hongotedesco8931 problem is one could also say and indeed have said the chances of us being here by chance without a greater power or God is even greater odds. So no we don't know either way. The scientists who study the mysteries of the universe are split between believers and non believers. Slightly more believers in a God I think

[@hongotedesco8931]

@@peterfarrelly2437 So the first thing..we don't know how life originated. That is a complete mystery. And because it is, you can't quantify the probabilities (ie, "here by chance"). As to scientists split between believers/non-believers, it depends on the cohort. If you ask the members of the NAS, I believe about 85% are non-believers. Contrast that with the general population, which is about 85%-90% believers. That's a big difference. But there are also country differences. In many european countries you can get up to 30%-40% non-believers.

[@peterfarrelly2437]

@hongotedesco8931 yes and in China, up to 70% non-believers. Doesn't show us if there is a God or not. Nobody knows. Some believers and some non-believers. Maybe if we exist long enough religion will become extinct or maybe God will reveal himself to us. Who knows 😯

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@hongotedesco8931 We don't KNOW how life started, but it is certainly not a complete mystery. All the mechanisms for how life could have started naturally are known and there are several different options for how those mechanisms could have chemically reacted naturally. Contrast this with what is KNOWN about a creator starting life and there is quite a probability mismatch there!

[@houmm08]

He's found a lucrative niche, end of

[@interwebslinger]

He fully embraced the Pascalian wager. 1. Get wife 2. Get money 3. Get heaven a. Lose intellectual honesty Worth it 🤷

[@drzaius844]

I’m reading a lot of existential crisis cases here. I find abrahamic theism to be even worse from an existential standpoint. Growing up in an evangelical home, the whole thing was a horror movie. Much more peaceful as an atheist. I find abundant meaning in my kids, wife, friendships, travel, and beauty! Worshipping some gods that I can’t detect seems like a waste of a lifetime.

[@CelticSpiritsCoven]

You don't even understand Abrahamic Theism. I bet if I gave you an academic test over the bible, you'd fail it.

[@drzaius844]

@@CelticSpiritsCoven really? What evidence do you have to make that claim? Seems like you are making the ultimate straw man fallacy here. Show me what you know about my knowledge. Go for it.

[@CelticSpiritsCoven]

@@drzaius844 It's always amazing that you militant Atheists are always subscribed to your favorite Atheist cult leaders. Like seriously, you guys claim this isn't a religion, but there you are too...... subscribed to your Atheist cult leader's YT channels. When it comes to the Abrahamic Theism and your knowledge of it.... 1. Don't judge a religion based off of it's hypocrites. I understand you many have had a poor childhood. But that doesn't make something not exist. 2. Question 1: What does "a loving God" mean from the bible? 3. Question 2: What are the mechanics of why Jesus had to die on the cross? Those 2 questions are very simple for Christians. A Christian wouldn't even need clarification to answer them. So go ahead..... if I am wrong about your academic knowledge of the bible, then it should be easy for you to answer these.

[@drzaius844]

Someone responded and YT is hiding it. Apparently YT thinks you are problematic.

[@rfwells1]

I was an atheist my entire life. And I still am. 😊

[@twrecks6279]

Welcome brother atheist. We are Christians. Hehe

[@El_Bruno7510]

Me too. I count myself lucky not to have been born into a backwards society where I was indoctrinated. Like the US 😁

[@twrecks6279]

@@El_Bruno7510 So what do you believe then?

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@twrecks6279 I believe everything for which I have evidence. What I believe will change when new evidence is presented. For the moment I have seen nothing to convince me that anything within this universe, and by extension, beyond this universe, is anything other than nature doing what nature does. Why are you a Christian?

[@twrecks6279]

@@El_Bruno7510 Two seperate thoughts have occurred to me here: One: So if you had evidence for the existence of God you would believe? Two: I don't agree with the dichotomy you are presenting between evidence and the lack thereof displayed by everything you don't believe in. I'm a Christian because I really do feel that it fits the facts better than any other explanation I can find, and even if it isn't the correct explanation, I get to draw from 2000 years of theological wisdom and spirituality on top. Which in itself is a sort of science. But even if I was to agree with the dichotomy that you speak of here, how is it any less brainwashed to believe exactly what you have been told? And then to change your beliefs every-time you are told something new? Aren't you just in the business of believing what the society tells you to believe in that case?

[@rocknstv570]

Thank you for the heads up to Dr. Wise. I just listened to his first podcast. I really liked his response to the emasculating of men. "Jesus was a man par excellence. Strong, decisive, dominant, self assured and often not nice."

[@Sherlock245]

Incorrect Jesus was nice.

[@rocknstv570]

@@Sherlock245 Ok, so you disagree with the Dr. and myself. I'm good with that.

[@Sherlock245]

@@rocknstv570 sad sad YOU come here to stir trouble.😞

[@rocknstv570]

@@Sherlock245 You're delusional. Please, just go away. I have no interest in interacting with those desperately in need of attention, troll.

[@Sherlock245]

@@rocknstv570 your even more delusional stop leading people astray pla go away and stop it!!!! Your harming people like this. Your going to kill someone like this!!!!😡😠😠

[@grahamjones5400]

I've been saved for almost my entire life. This professor could learn an thing or two from people who always trusted in god.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Your story sound more like indoctrination. The same is claimed by all those who grew up in all sort of different religions, but you got the right one didn't you! I've been blessed my whole life with the ability to look at real evidence dispassionately and without bias, allowing me to change my mind on things when new evidence presents itself. I've not seen anything to suggest any magic sky daddies are true yet!

[@QueenCityFilmsComm]

It seems like emotions (primarily the enjoyment of his current wife) drove his decision with all due respect. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@jobrown8146]

I'm praying that he is now a genuine believer in Jesus.

[@arulsammymankondar30]

Emotion: When we are moved to tears/exhilarating feelings on seeing an awesome dramatic performance, are such emotions rational or irrational? Are they real or false?

[@QueenCityFilmsComm]

@@arulsammymankondar30 That’s a great question 👍🏾! It may or may not be. I’m in no position to answer for this OBVIOUSLY VERY INTELLIGENT man. However ones emotional dispensation has nothing to do with the true or falsehood of a proposition. I’m assuming this will be discussed in the next episode. Did Christ rise bodily from the dead and are WE (all Christians) willing TO POTENTIALLY DIE on this historical fact is what we ALL MUST CONFRONT ULTIMATELY.

[@ohdehhan]

Spoiler alert: PineCreek Theorem.

[@zach2980]

Dead ringer 😉

[@stillkicking2445]

Once each of us takes our last breath and enters eternity……. There will be no doubt you will know what is the truth.

[@El_Bruno7510]

You almost certainly won't know. You will die and that will be it. You will know nothing about it.

[@adamgates1142]

Where you find out that Islam was the correct religion and your punishment for being wrong is an eternity of barbed wire being rammed up your butthole?

[@AWT8900]

​@@El_Bruno7510 Thanks God for your insightful commentary.....I will take note.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@AWT8900 You can sarcastically take note all you like mate. The fact is that the common Christian God claim is incoherent. The verbal gymnastics to explain away the incoherencies are not what we would logically expect to have to do if your God were true. So whilst you claim you will take note, you are actually simply dismissing me in favour of what you were either indoctrinated into believing, or have a desperate need to believe.

[@dillanklapp]

It’s unfortunate that when people realize rationality doesn’t support their beliefs system they attack rationality instead of modify their beliefs.

[@FaithRefinedByFire]

He's not saying rationality doesn't support his beliefs. He's saying atheists have a presumptuous claim to a type of rationality no one can really achieve. He's understanding our own limitations, which is an area in which atheists traditionally have failed.

[@dillanklapp]

@@FaithRefinedByFire he said agnosticism was the only defendable position, and theism required faith. He also said atheists take rationality too far. I agree rationality has its limits, but it’s rational to acknowledge those limits. Obviously in this case he has modified his beliefs multiple times and now has “faith”. But in the larger Christian context this is something I’ve seen in sermons recently where pastors complain about post enlightenment rationality and how it is leading people astray. I also see it in the rampant science denial in young earth creationist communities like the one I grew up in for example.

[@arulsammymankondar30]

@@dillanklapp Science itself has become a religion in the hands of atheists.

[@dillanklapp]

@@arulsammymankondar30 right, science is a religion and Christianity is a relationship 🙃

[@jackfrost2978]

@@dillanklapp i find there are very few people that can begin to appreciate the various possibilities that the creation account may represent. As far as science is concerned. It took many years, to see how often scientist in various fields of science would either directly mislead or lie to the public; or stay silent while media mislead the world on the reality of their work. From astro physics to quantum physics. There are an amazing amount of lies told to the public. At this point i find it more rewarding to have interesting conversations. Considering various possibilities. There are several very interesting reasons why the universe may not be nearly as old as we are told.

[@lawratify]

John Wise when you found god, did you ask your god why he lets millions of children die each year of diseases, malnuitrition, famine and other "acts of god" like Eartth quakes, Tsunamis, floods, drought and other disasters? Or like people who have "faith:" and find god you are self-centered and self -absorbed and have no time for such silly questions?

[@junevandermark952]

While I was still confused by my religious childhood indoctrination, an Atheist once shared his personal feelings with me. He said, "If I pretended to believe in a god, and the god was real, it would know that I was pretending, because the fact is, I just don't believe that a god exists." That point of view resonated with me as being heartfelt and as honest "as could be." I later chose to become a born-again Atheist, and wanted to be as honest with my self, as that man had been honest with me. Once I was doubtful about the existence of a god, there wasn’t any way to entrap my thoughts where they once had been, as freedom from religion was my only alternative. Now I believe as did Stephen Hawking before he died ... that the universe in one form or another always existed ... no creator or plan involved ... and that suffering of all forms of life always was ... and is ... natural.

[@CBALLEN]

NO one can believe in Jesus unless the Father causes one to believe. John6:44

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@CBALLEN Plenty believe through indoctrination. Plenty believe though poverty and desperation. That may be 'the father's' work, but it is unlikely. What about those that believe in other religions. Is that the father too?

[@CBALLEN]

@El Bruno God wrote all our stories before we were created Ps 139:16.Everything God has written, is to Glorify Himself and we are characters in that story whether we belong to Him or Satan.

[@junevandermark952]

@@CBALLEN If human animals had never existed ... there wouldn't BE any flamboyant stories about the universe having been created by a judge-"mental" creator. And if human animals go extinct ... those stories about judge-"mental" gods will immediately go extinct. It was ignorant, self-flattering humans that put their selves up on pedestals, as being the center of a creator's attention. “We are all hallucinating all the time, including right now. It’s just that when we agree about our hallucinations, we call that reality.” Anil Seth … neuroscientist. Much ado about nothing ... William Shakespeare.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@CBALLEN What is your evidence that what you think, or have been lied to, is God's word?

[@achyuthcn2555]

Interviewer and Interviewee can be described as Dumb and Dumber.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

Kind of like you & your boyfriend. Amirite?

[@austinperkins8348]

An excellent interview that demonstrates how many theists still either, do not understand what being atheist means, or are dishonest about it, and how those who leave theism still retain their indoctrination of fallacious reasoning and can easily become theists again based on that fallacious reasoning.

[@breezy1x132]

Theists don't understand the proposition that god doesn't exist?

[@austinperkins8348]

@@breezy1x132 that's not what I said.

[@breezy1x132]

@@austinperkins8348 I’d your not referring to a disagreement about the definition what does being an atheist entail

[@austinperkins8348]

@@breezy1x132 can you rephrase your question more coherently please so can make sure I understand you properly?

[@breezy1x132]

@@austinperkins8348 I’m just asking what your statement means, usually atheists who believe atheism merely entails a lack of belief will say something along the lines of this but I may have misinterpreted your statement from the beginning

[@ceiv20educ6]

May the Lord have mercy on you Mr. atheist...you need it.

[@El_Bruno7510]

We're waiting for it to show itself. Believing without hard evidence is delusion. Surely any God wants its creations to be intellectually honest with themselves?

[@Andre_Servetus]

He is still incorrect. Faith is not taking a leap in the dark between knowing and not knowing if there is a God That is not faith "what faith is about." The Bible does not teach that we don't know or can't know and that it requires a blind faith like that. No the Bible teaches and rightly so agreeing with reason and rationality on that foundational point that we have strong reason to have confidence and we do. We know there is a Creator from the creation.. If we doubt we have stepped into a doubting of reason. Atheism is a failure of reason to reach its goal.

[@philstilwell]

It’s very strange that, as a philosopher, he considered agnosticism to be sitting on the fence. Rational belief is a degree of belief that maps to the degree of the relevant evidence. Simply proportion your degree of confidence to the degree of the evidence. There’s nothing wrong with doubt provided it is warranted by the balance of evidence. This notion that belief is binary is a common flaw.

[@winstonsavage6338]

Because, like it or not, we are embarked…The existence or non-existence of God informs the meaning of your life, and you can either live your life as if God exists or you can live your life as if he doesn’t. You can’t live your life as if God might exist.

[@philstilwell]

@@winstonsavage6338 you’re confusing epistemology with ontology. That’s a faulty foundation that will wrongly inform the rest of your life. Simply read this more carefully: Rational belief is a degree of belief that maps to the degree of the relevant evidence.

[@winstonsavage6338]

@@philstilwellI guess it depends on what you think he means by sitting on the fence. Being that he obviously acknowledges a certain degree of epistemological uncertainty, I take him to mean that you can’t live your life sitting on the fence ie you are going to be putting your faith in something whether you like it or not.

[@philstilwell]

@@winstonsavage6338 how does that work? Imagine that being the epistemology of a scientist. Imagine that being the epistemology of a weather reporter. Imagine that being the epistemology of a gambler in Las Vegas. Imagine neural networks systems set up in such a binary way. Why would you want to eliminate, rational doubt from the equation? why would you stoop to an inferior epistemology? Rational belief is a degree of belief that maps to the degree of the relevant evidence, your emotional discomfort with doubt notwithstanding.

[@winstonsavage6338]

@@philstilwellDoes the existence of God affect the way you predict the weather? I’m not aware of any scripture that informs meteorological methodology. I am aware of much scripture that makes very personal impositions on how to live your life. Committing to live in accordance with God’s law is not done while sitting on the fence about his existence.

[@murielsteinmetz4274]

Read "Evidence that demands a verdict" by Josh McDowell, and Reason for the hope within (brilliant by different CHristian philosophers) , and many many others!

[@onestepaway3232]

Not an Atheist been a believer my whole life in a supreme creator it wasn’t until 20 years ago where I found out who that creator was. Everybody’s journey is different. Evidence is creation, literary revelation and Jesus of Nazareth. People reject it as not evidence but that is what it is. A painting points to a painter, a building points to a builder, art points to an artists. Creation points to a creator. Once you accept some kind of creator exist that is where your journey begins. Shalom

[@El_Bruno7510]

Deluded nonsense. There is no "creation" therefore there is no "creator". You can stop believing now and get on with something meaningful in your life.

[@mickeyguide3112]

@@El_Bruno7510 lol you can't believe all the trillions of different species we have on our planet just popped out to existence out of some random stardust ages ago. You would have to be a complete lunatic to really believe that.

[@onestepaway3232]

@@El_Bruno7510 well, we all must choose our path one to everlasting life or torment.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@mickeyguide3112 "you can't believe all the trillions of different species we have on our planet just popped out to existence out of some random stardust ages ago" That sentence shows a complete lack of understanding of evolution. "You would have to be a complete to really believe that." Let's analyse that shall we? I would have to be a loon to believe in slowly changing life forms, something we have evidence for, but to believe a magic being just clicked its fingers and everything appeared is the rational thing to believe? Not only that, but not all species even appeared at the same time, so the magic finger zapping happened when, intermittently throughout time, when God felt like creating more life? You need to think more deeply about exactly how your God would make sense in reality of it were true!

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@onestepaway3232 Again, just assertion. Moreover, you will be in everlasting torment if Allah is the God, or any one of 1,000's of other Gods. But you know you have the right one eh? Think about exactly how your God would have to function with what you claim it has created in the universe and the world. Think about the exact words in the bible, and the way they are interpreted so differently by different Christians. Is that a clear message to your God's people?

[@grandmastershek]

Amazing you can teach philosophy while also falling prey to equivocation.

[@Lerian_V]

Elaborate please.

[@grandmastershek]

@@Lerian_V equivocating the kind of faith has in a religious deity to the other kinds of faith people operate under on a day to day basis.

[@MJ-tj3nd]

Except u haven’t shown it

[@grandmastershek]

@@MJ-tj3nd he literally did that in the video.

[@isaaccastillo8628]

@@grandmastershek you think you are a good person?

[@davidhansen1811]

The word faith implies or requires that the “faith” in question be directed toward something or someone; faith in the positive sense needs a ‘direction’ in order to make the word itself meaningful. Even a hermit scientist could legitimately say (if pressed to employ the word) that when it comes to the forces that are at work in the universe, his faith is directed toward or is ‘in’ the standard model, when seeking to use sub-atomic particle physics to explain the four known forces present in the universe. He likes how that model gives a seemingly unified explanation of what is behind the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, electromagnetism, and gravity. Some points about my scientist: (i) He knows that there are a non-trivial number of well-qualified scientists who do not accept the standard model and that these physicists have formally presented sophisticated arguments as to why they reject it. I say “reject” in that these dissenters reject enough of the standard model that they are considered to be dissenters by most physicists, yet basically respectable as individual scientists who are indeed able to comment. (ii) He knows that the profound scientific problem that I have described is NOT itself ‘all sown up’. For example, a clear scientific consensus does not exist as to what the Higgs Boson does. If it can be proven that it does not even exist, the scientific world may have to go back to the drawing board, perhaps even throwing out most of the standard model. (iii) Vast amounts of data arise from a single (very expensive) CERN collision. He also knows that the data collected in support of ideas like the Higgs Boson has noise in it (scatter or randomness that yet contains important trends or tendencies). He knows that the magnitude and nature of the multivariate scatter causes the interpretation of the data to have an effect of the final conclusions. More data with slightly different patterns and stronger noise in new places might negate a previous conclusion. (iv) It is possible for the physicist to choose methods of analysis which put more weight on those trends that support the preferences or intuitions favoured by the physicist who is the very person doing the analyzing. (v) Our hermit scientist has never seen the collider with his own eyes and did not personally conduct any of the CERN collider experiments, nor (let us say) did he analyze any of the raw data himself. Because of the combined weight of the five realms of uncertainty listed above, it is fair to say that the hermit scientist must (at least) show some humility about his avowed position, and that he is exercising some faith when he runs with the standard model. I will say that he certainly does use some pure faith when he tries to understand the origins of the forces that have been measured in our universe, even if he is not conscious of the fact that he has exercised said faith. (i) He believes that even though it is a fact that scientists of all types have, on occasion, committed fraud, such fraud is sufficiently rare that he feels that he need not be concerned about any malfeasance in the case of the Standard Model. He feels sure that most of the scientists can be presumed to have been honest. I tend to agree with him. (ii) He knows that although the group of physicists who appear to have definitively answered the Higgs Boson question will probably receive the Nobel Prize, he believes they held this spectacular career-changing and life-changing reward at held at arms’ length at every stage of their work. The hermit scientist is willing to assume that it had no influence whatever on any aspect of the analysis done, or on any of the interpretations made, when he reads the published articles in his cave. In the positive sense there are two things which the hermit scientist will use, things that ordinary people use many times a day: (i) He will trust the first-hand witnesses, those who were involved, as credible people whose senses did not lie to them. (There are often good ancillary reasons for making this decision.) (ii) He will use his own brain, its capacity for logic, its capacity for making heuristic assessments (‘intuition’), and its ability to synthesize seemingly unrelated information to decide whether the overall picture being presented to his mind is reasonably coherent. The picture does not have to be perfect, without a single defect of blank spot, but it does have to look like something. The idea of coherence and the idea of “model” are strongly related. I am now able to close with this. (i) The disciples of Jesus Christ were eyewitnesses to miracles, nearly 40 different unusual and inexplicable events. They had previously had ordinary occupations like “fishermen” and “tax collector”, so these men had eyes and ears and brains that worked just fine, and they had no pretentions whatever about becoming physicists or epistemologists. These men were Jews. Within a matter of weeks after the crucifixion of Christ, these men stopped following Judaism (they were considered heretics by learned Jews) and began going around insisting that they had seen Jesus Christ of Nazareth alive, and had spoken with him. Almost all of them kept saying this all the way to their deaths. They made no money from saying this and maintained that all that everything that had described was true - all their lives and all way to their own executions. If they would but say that everything that they had been proclaiming was a lie, they would be spared. They refused and as a result most of them died grisly deaths, and in many cases far from their comfortable homes (as being caused by their desire to spread the news about The Christ, far and wide). (ii) The writings of the key people who witnessed these things, and/or who rubbed shoulders with the men who witnessed these things, became known as the New Testament. The books in this testimony ‘happen’ to form a model that has profound theological coherence. The lectures, expositions, and written exegetical works that explore and explain this amazing coherence are found all over the world and would fill many libraries. Incidentally, said coherent truths have changed countless lives, it is no surprise that they have made many incoherent lives into coherent lives, including my own. As I said at the onset, the word faith implies a direction, it is exercised toward something or toward someone. Beyond what has been beautifully recorded, it is also a someone in this case, none other than the living person Jesus Christ.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Your opening paragraphs sound very much like Discovery Institute nonsense and your closing paragraph is very much disputed by many biblical scholars. The bottom line is that you still believe in a magic sky daddy!

[@ChildofGod98765]

Please pray for me and my boys. Prayers are all I need. I’m choosing FAITH Over FEAR! I still love and trust in you Jesus even though I have fallen on hard times. I know you are my God and you are in control. As I’m struggling desperately to support my two autistic children, and myself I keep faith in you LORD because as you know my sons require a lot from me because they are also non verbal. I’m a single mother my husband passed away unexpectedly years ago. I lost my job at Forsyth hospital because I declined the vaccine. I have heart disease and I suffer from lupus that’s the major reason why I declined the vaccine. I’m waitressing and I’m thankful but I’m not making enough to make ends meet. I’m still having difficulty putting groceries in my refrigerator, and paying bills. Every month is a struggle, to not end up on the streets with my children. I get harassed and bullied on this app because I share my testimony and I constantly ask for prayers. It hurts my heart. Prayers are all I need. I’m starting to wonder why am I here? What is my purpose? Sometimes I want to just give up. But even as I have questions and even though I struggle! I STILL PRAISE GOD! THANK YOU JESUS! I KNOW God will provide. All praise to the MOST HIGH!

[@downenout8705]

This is a scam message. Please don't respond.

[@jobrown8146]

@@downenout8705 God knows if this is a scam or not. I have prayed for this lady and her family just in case it is a genuine request.

[@downenout8705]

@@jobrown8146 It's being doing the rounds on numerous Christian and anti vac's channels from since COVID vaccines became available. The message never changes. I got caught, I wasted my time researching how she could be helped and reached out to her. Never heard a thing, then I saw the same message some months later. Seen it numerous times since.

[@jobrown8146]

@@downenout8705 Thanks. This is the first time I've seen it. But she still needs prayers, but for different reasons to what is posted. Perhaps when you post that it is a scam, it would be a good idea to provide a bit more information so that people don't think you are just being nasty.

[@downenout8705]

@@jobrown8146 Yep, I I've read 41 mlasP (my post will be deleted) so I guess you must be right. Laughable that you are are hyper sceptical about me but are happy to believe everything written in an old book of deity magic.

[@markaurelius61]

Doctor Wise, those quotes from Kant and Satre that atheism is a faith position are vital to this debate. Could you please post the references here.

[@joerdim]

Define Atheism.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Yes I do not believe that my understanding of modern atheism could possibly be called "a faith". The disbelief in any Gods as opposed to the belief there are no Gods.

[@markaurelius61]

@@El_Bruno7510 But that is just the first trivial step. Once you have decided that if you are an intellectually curious person you have to explain all the apparent design in terms of unguided natural forces, you have to find a bottom-up way to justify morality, and if you want to have philosophically grounded values, they can go all over the place. Plus you are socially aligned with many people who hate religion; it does not stay so morally neutral.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@markaurelius61 Yes, and we do, and that is why we are atheists. There are explanations for much within this universe that theists claim a God is needed for and where there are not explanations there is not evidence for a God. Outside of this universe nothing is known, so we do not replace that lack of knowledge with a God or a Creator. Bottom up morality is explainable in exactly the same way that bottom up life has been proven. Our evolutionary past as a social species. To claim it can only come from a God is pure assertion.

[@markaurelius61]

@@El_Bruno7510 After the mystery of where there is something rather than nothing is the next stack of mysteries. * Why does the universe have structure and chemistry rather than being an amorphous fog? There are many fundamental constants, whose values we have no explanation for, that have to be very finely tuned for what we have. * Why does life exist? Just because it is possible given complex chemistry doesn't mean it will somehow arrange itself into the highly sophisticated arrangements that we see. * Why is there consciousness? That requires far more sophistication that just simple one-celled life. There is no reason to think it could arise spontaneously. * Why is there altruism? The universe is balanced on several constants which have to be within extremely narrow tolerances for life to be possible. And life is based on complex self-reproducing information-processing systems. Most of this science was discovered after the Enlightenment and Charles Darwin made it respectable to be atheist. But the atheists haven't realised that it doesn't work to explain the universe without a mind behind it.

[@b-m605]

In my teens I decided that if evolution was true, there was no god. I always wobbled because of evidence of design in creation. I knew that it didn't make sense that random processes produced very thing. When I was 19 I was traveling on my own and doing daylaboring jobs to survive. I often found myself down to my last dollar, I would buy a pack of cigarettes and a coffee and contemplate my situation. Every time something would come up to provide enough financially for a few more days. This happened often enought that I started to believe there was someone looking out for me. That there was a God who cared. From there I became open the all the ideas of god/gods and eventually decided that Christianity made the most sense. I am daily thankful for the life he has lead me into.

[@SaanichtonMinistries]

God's grace is matchless and is perfect as his justice is as well.

[@peterbassey9668]

Surely you mean God’s “grace” and not “grave”.

[@SaanichtonMinistries]

@@peterbassey9668 it was the spell checkers fault:) lol

[@adamgates1142]

How do you know? You have no idea who is burning in hell...

[@SaanichtonMinistries]

@adamgates1142 the Bible, God's word gives us a good idea...

[@bronxboy47]

Just as perplexing as the notion of something out of nothing is the idea that an all-perfect God could have any unfulfilled desires. This concept of desire in an all-perfect, self-contained godhead has always puzzled me. On the one hand, you have God enjoying his blissful perfection, in need of nothing and, on the other hand, that same blissfully perfect God suddenly gets a creative urge, knowing that if he acts on that urge he will be opening Pandora's Box, a box filled with so much horror and suffering any sane entity would recoil at the thought. And yet, we are asked to believe this omniscient, all-loving godhead opens Pandora's Box anyway when nothing is compelling him to do so. When absolutely nothing is forcing him to abandon his state of bliss, in which there is no evil, no suffering, and no eternal torment, nothing compelling him to end that blissful state to create a nightmare. Is it possible for a godhead to become bored with his perfection? That is a question easily overlooked in the stampede of drama that pours out of the bible from the very first chapter. Again, I ask, what could compel a blissfully perfect, loving god to disturb his eternal bliss to create a place of eternal torment for creatures who never needed to exist? This idea is a hole in the creation story big enough to drive a Mack truck through, and yet Christian drama addicts pretend they don't see it. Any thoughts on this, Justin?

[@jackfrost2978]

Think of it as wanting a company. Either for yourself or for your child. You can either get a robot pet. Which will not have the problems of a live pet, but will also not have any genuine love or appreciation for you or your child. Is the robot preferred, for having no or limited maintenance. Or do you get a real animal that needs regular feeding and bathroom considerations. Most people prefer real pets for real dynamic interactions. Knowing that they will be able to train the pet to work out most of the troubled behaviors.

[@gusgibsaints]

Well written! A big thanks from an Atheist in England!

[@gusgibsaints]

Bronxboy47 Just what I needed to hear this afternoon..reason!

[@bronxboy47]

@@jackfrost2978 You're completely ignoring all the horrors your God had to release into the world in order to relieve his loneliness, a loneliness that should be impossible for a self-contained perfectly blissful God.

[@Nighthawkinlight]

Why must perfection be defined as a static state of zen like bliss? What if "perfect" for a living being is a state of motion and creativity? A stone is content sitting still. The more conscious a creature the more harmful it is to confine it to inactivity.

[@davidfitnesstech]

This should definitely make all the *faithful followers* , feel *not so weird* about their *beliefs* ..

[@El_Bruno7510]

I can't think of anything that would make faithful followers question their beliefs. That's what faith is. Belief without evidence. When most seriously question their belief, they do not find the 'evidence' for it compelling.

[@erichodge567]

12:25 The Pine Creek Theorem is again proven true.

[@heteroclitus]

I was expecting something as mundane as that. Thanks for the summary.

[@tgrogan6049]

Women are the most effective evangelists for Jesus! 😮

[@G_Demolished]

A little play goes a long way! 😂

[@skeptic_al]

Like most former atheists, he was Christian first, then an atheist, the reverted back to religion. Justification lost it’s importance. The problem is that philosophy is what led him out. Philosophy is religion’s epistemological partner. It sounds like he never learned what a valid epistemology is. Then he was in an emotional trap in his search for companionship. Reconversion at that point is not surprising.

[@El_Bruno7510]

I agree absolutely 100% with what you have said!

[@louistenutajr.1365]

Wonderful! I've been saying for years everything is built on trust. Comes from the Latin FIDES, which also means to have faith, believe. They're used interchangeably in the Bible. Thank you, Dr. John.

[@El_Bruno7510]

I'd rather have my house built on foundations than faith, just like I prefer my truths!

[@louistenutajr.1365]

@@El_Bruno7510 an interesting trust you have.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@louistenutajr.1365 My trust and faith are not interchangeable words. The thing about words is that they evolve. The thing about trust is that it is earnt. The thing about faith is that you believe something that is true on faith alone and something that is false on faith alone. The problem is that you cannot tell which is which on faith alone!

[@louistenutajr.1365]

@@El_Bruno7510 do you have the same schizophrenic problem that many do. Words are words. I stick with the roots and etymologies of them. How are used in academia and on our level. But if you want to hold onto your own trust, that’s fine. But I do not split words ideologically. I study what’s outside myself and I learn.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@louistenutajr.1365 Well schizophrenic is the wrong word for a start! So what study has proven to you that any God exists?

[@grantbartley483]

His definition of faith is an atheist one not a Biblical one. Biblically, faith means trusting in Christ because you have good reason to do so. If you don't have good reason to trust him, that's not NT faith (pistis in NT Greek), it's arbitrary, unjustified belief, such as atheists propagandise 'faith' to mean.

[@downenout8705]

What utter asinine nonsense. If you want to know what "biblical" faith is, just read Hebrews 11: 1. That is an appalling epistemology as there is literally nothing that you couldn't believe as true using that "faith". Your statement "if you don't have good reason to trust him", presupposes that there is a "him" to trust. To justify this presupposition you first need to provide at least a mustard seed's worth of empirical evidence to justify a belief in the truth of 1 Corinthians 15: 14. I am as confident as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow, this you will never do. Remember all I asked for is single sentence containing that precious seed, nothing more.

[@grantbartley483]

@@downenout8705 You sure you're citing the right verse? Surely it follows logically that if Christ is not raised then preaching he has been raised is vain? Of course, that doesn't prove he has been raised, which is what I guess you're really after. Of that I would say, if the original witnesses to the resurrection knew Christ was not raised, they wouldn't be prepared to lie about it under intense persecution, even martyrdom. So Christ was raised.

[@downenout8705]

@@grantbartley483 Every Christian should know the importance of 1 Corinthians 15: 14, that is why I quote it, and every Christian, including you, has understood why I quote it. Being pedantic is not empirical evidence. Who are these "original witnesses"? Claims about witnesses written decades after the supposed events by anonymous authors, is not empirical evidence and it is not even testimonial evidence from the alleged "original witnesses". What persecution? what martyrdom? There are only stories written over a century after the supposed events. I have absolutely no interest in your tired old apologetic trope, that had you bothered to do the research you would know has been debunked countless times. These stories, even if true, are not empirical evidence. All I asked for was a single sentence, not bloviation. It always amazes me that whenever I ask a Christian this question I never get the intellectually honest answer of: "I understand that there is no empirical evidence to support the truth of 1 Corinthians 15: 14 but the evidence and other reasons that I do have are sufficient for me". I am almost certainly not going to agree that this is sufficient for me, but at least the conversation would be a honest one.

[@grantbartley483]

@@downenout8705 We know the source of Mark was Peter for instance. If anyone was an original witness, it was Peter, John, and James: all martyred. If you want to say that the standard of historical evidence is not good enough to support these claims, then you have no idea of the standard of historical evidence for ancient documents, which for these claims is as good as that evidence gets, including chains of custody. So it would be you denying the actual evidence for the sake of your bad assumptions about the nature of historical evidence. So I find you are not as interested in empirical evidence as you claim to be. If you were, you would ask what sort of standards of historical evidence actual historians use about ancient sources, and then find out what the status of NT documents are in relation to this. Spoiler: they show that Jesus was resurrected.

[@downenout8705]

@@grantbartley483 Historical evidence is not empirical evidence. There isn't even any historical evidence of the resurrection. If you truly believe that stories in book are "historical evidence" for the supernatural, then you should also believe the miraculous birth narrative of Alexander the Great and the miracles attributed to Julius Caesar. You don't, for the same reason as me, that is, there is zero empirical evidence to support the stories. I'm not denying anything, I'm saying that you have presented absolutely nothing for me to deny. What part of "even if the" martyrdom "stories are true that is not empirical evidence of the resurrection", didn't you understand? I say again, there is no empirical evidence to support the truth of 1 Corinthians 15: 14. Sorry, but I no longer consider you to be an intellectually honest interlocutor, so unless you can provide some actual empirical evidence or accept the truth that there is none, just take the last word if you wish because I am done with this conversation.

[@dystopian-future]

Doesn't sound like he genuinely had new faith in God again, he made himself do it just so he could get the woman

[@neilcates3499]

Yeah. I would suggest that when god starts advising you on relationship matters you might want to consider that said advise is coming from your own head.

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

He said that he could not just flip on a switch, so it sounds like he found enough evidence to be convinced.

[@ohdehhan]

@@neilcates3499 Or from your loins.

[@anupwardlife4160]

Justin: Another of your excellent hosted interviews. I want to suggest that before he must retire due to age and health that a MUST interview for you would be with pastor Dr. John MacArthur. A quick bio: "MacArthur, an evangelical Bible expositor, pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, and president of The Master's Seminary, in Sun Valley, California. In addition to more than 150 individual books and monographs, MacArthur has also contributed to more than 30 multi-author works." Here is an incredibly wise and biblically rock-solid evangelical leader with over 50 years of powerful sermons archived on his "Grace to You" website. Hope the Lord might work out a YT interview with this gifted Christian teacher!

[@HLLV-jz1xw]

I simply cannot believe what John says. 😢 It simply seems so unreasonable 😅 For one, a philosophy professor would simply know that atheism is the lack of believe and not necessarily the conviction that no God exists. It seems odd to me that he he did not understand the burden of prove or he believes that it is absolutely necessary to hold a believe and take a position. But why? And he claims that he know atheism inside out. Not credible. I am sorry. I am looking for a reason to believe, but I keep getting stuck with such unreasonable tales. Another minor detail - if he was an atheist while in contact with his to be second wife, why would he care if he was coming on to her? It wouldn’t have been a sin? Would it? Sounds like a tale told by a believer…

[@jlouis4407]

You’re describing agnosticism the belief that not necessarily does God exist. Read the gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John and see how the person of Jesus resonates with you.

[@HLLV-jz1xw]

@@jlouis4407 no, I am describing atheism, as in "not a theist". One can be an atheist, convinced there is no God (gnostic atheist) or one can be an atheist not knowing whether a God exists or not (agnostic atheist) - both are atheism. To give you another example, a theist can be gnostic as in definitely knowing while another theist can be an agnostic, as in not knowing. The agnostic theist may seem wired, but faith could overcome the problem of not knowing. And "agnosticism" on its own tells you nothing, other than "not knowing" - there isn´t even a connection to any specific subject and/or believe. I read the gospels and they do resonate with me. That does not make them true. I very much enjoy these as great litrature and love the subject. If true, I´d convert. Misrepresening atheism however, does not do anything convincing. And of course, if one does not believe in a God, it does not mean nor claim that no God exists. It simply means lack of believe in a God - which makes one an atheist.

[@willschmidt2470]

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

why would anyone want to please god?

[@DennisMerwood-xk8wp]

@@HarryNicNicholas "God loves me so much he made hell in case I do not love him back and kiss his behind!

[@adamgates1142]

I'd rather blow Hitler in hell

[@HonestlyAtheist]

This is embarrassing. Please get better guests.

[@wonderlife62]

I was a devoted Christian for decades without using any rational thinking about my religious beliefs…I took it all on faith ….Im now exploring philosophy and atheism and I am content and without all the fear that plagued me before…my belief was a choice and I just changed it…that’s the freedom and the power we have as conscious beings…no decision is right or wrong, they are only experiences… If believing in God makes you happy, go for it…and if not go in peace

[@whittfamily1]

You are saying "Don't bother with the truth. Just believe what makes you comfortable." I'm not buying it.

[@wonderlife62]

@@whittfamily1 No one is asking you to buy anything...you've already bought into your chosen flavor of religious belief and just because you believe it doesn't make it true

[@whittfamily1]

@@wonderlife62 WL1: No one is asking you to buy anything... GW1: It’s a metaphor. I am being asked to accept a claim. I don’t accept it. I don’t believe it is correct. WL1: you've already bought into your chosen flavor of religious belief and just because you believe it doesn't make it true GW1: I don’t have any religious beliefs. If you have a belief and you proclaim it publicly, then I think you have a duty to defend it with good evidence, reasons, and/or arguments. Christians can’t, won’t, or don’t usually do this. John certainly didn’t do this in the interview.

[@wonderlife62]

@@whittfamily1 lol…thanks for breaking that down…Thought you were a smartass Christian but your just a smartass atheist…welcome

[@whittfamily1]

@@wonderlife62 I am a rational outspoken atheist.

[@Revelation--ti8pm]

It's obvious that John's conversion was based on his relationship with Jenny. The fear of being alone and the power of love seem the sources for John's change of mind. If he's had a true conversion, none of that matters. But I sincerely hope that he understands that salvation is a miracle only God can perform. And it's accompanied by a deep reverence for God and a love of the truth. I didn't hear that from him. If it were me, I would lose sleep wondering if I am really born again or if my fear of being alone is what's hinging my faith. The Bible says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, not the fear of being single or losing out on a relationship. I sincerely hope and pray that John has a true conversion if he has not already.

[@dillanklapp]

This screams pine creek theorem

[@rescueferret8834]

Lol was about to post this

[@jobrown8146]

What is "pine creek theorem"? Thanks.

[@dillanklapp]

@@jobrown8146 basically a lot of men or even women convert to a religion to date/marry a person who is in that religion. There’s also a pattern where Christian men in their early 20 college age start experiencing an existential crisis and doubt the faith, then meet a Christian woman and come back to the faith. Basically a form of motivated reasoning like they talked about in the video, “putting the elephant before the rider.”

[@rescueferret8834]

@@jobrown8146 it's from Pinecreek Doug on KZbin, you can search for some of his clips about it I think

[@jobrown8146]

@@dillanklapp thank you

[@ItsDazYT]

Powerful story

[@downenout8705]

A tragic story of a man who, understandable, couldn't endure the thought of being permanently separated from that which he held most precious.

[@esq8]

@@downenout8705 Nothing tragic about that. More tragic to walk away from what is life itself and choose eternal separation and death. Why would one do that?

[@downenout8705]

@@esq8 We all die and given that there is zero evidence of anything "eternal" after death, why would you want to waste the one life that you know you have chasing after the product of some long dead peoples imagination?

[@esq8]

@@downenout8705 Would you like a double-blind clinical trial for evidence? Maybe observe something from a telescope or down a microscope and say, "A-ha! There it is!" The scientific process is wonderful for an empirical world view, but it falls short of anything outside of that. You should give being open a shot to other types of evidence, as a suggestion. The consistency of anecdotal stories of people that have had similar near-death experiences that report on same or similar characteristics regardless of race, nationality, region or religion should indicate a bigger picture going on. When millions of people report the same thing around the world and it changes their lives, it would seem to indicate that death is not the end.

[@Yossarian.]

Faith in god is not about not knowing whether she exists or not. It's about wholeheartedly believing she exists whilst having no demonstrable evidence that she does.

[@justinpino8115]

So edgy

[@toddcote4904]

"She" lol

[@maninthecosmos5379]

@@toddcote4904 😅😂

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

I agree with your concept of god. It is quite clear she does not exist.

[@Yossarian.]

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 I didn't actually offer a concept of god, I merely corrected the guys definition of the word faith. I added the "she" mainly because it annoys the hell out of the ardent theist. Having said all that; I agree with your agreement that gods most likely don't exist.

[@beowulf.reborn]

"You don't know whether God exists, you don't know whether God doesn't exist, that's what faith is about." ~ Dr. Wise. No, that is not what faith is about. Faith is about trusting in the person and promises of God, which you cannot do, if you do not know that He exists. "Because that which is *known* of God is *revealed* among them, *_for God revealed it to them,_* for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, *_are plainly seen,_* both His eternal power and Godhead-to their being inexcusable; because, *_having known God_* they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, professing to be wise, they were made fools..." ~ Romans 1:19-22 And so, upon this knowledge that God has revealed about Himself, we place our hope, and trust (e: believe) that God will be faithful to what He has promised. "Faith is being confident of what we hope for, convinced about things we do not see." ~ Hebrews 11:1 And by this faith, our knowledge of God is deepened, as we enter into relationship with Him through His Son Jesus, so that we can share in His life. "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." ~ John 17:3

[@megofiachra3247]

Thank you for those scriptures. When he said that, it gave me great pause. It was simply…off. I’ll re read these scriptures and run his ideas through the grid of scripture…

[@glenliesegang233]

I have heard that a good way to view, "to have faith in" is to say, "I act as if." The drowning man should put faith in the belief that the water can hold him up if he understands its nature, but has zero proof if he continues to fight the water. Faith in God is impossible if you trust your experience when you deny he can. If you do not try trusting him, while understanding His ways are not your ways, how can he work in your life?

[@lindamew6540]

@@megofiachra3247 It was off for me too. Faith is a surety. It's a solid rock upon which our feet stand.

[@museofire]

Its true that the bible talks of faith or "belief in", not in the existence of God but, putting trust in what God has said. Already believing in God is taken for granted in the New Testament, particularly; "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing the word of God". It would be hard to trust the word of God if you didn't believe he existed. People believe in God because they have had information or experiences, or both, to lead them to believe. If an experience or information comes along which goes against this belief then faith and trust come into play. If there are many/more convincing experiences or information which goes against this belief then greater is the faith needed. If an unbeliever, who has no experience of "God's work" on their life, and knows lots of information which points away from there being a God, then that faith must be truly immense. I cannot imagine myself having a relationship with someone I didn't believe was there, though; it would be like talking into a dark cave, wondering if there was someone there but having no real belief that there is and never hearing a reply. Would I be talking to, crying to, thanking, sharing my life with that possibly imaginary friend. If I wasn't convinced of their reality then I don't think I could truly trust/have faith in them.

[@glenliesegang233]

@@museofire the drowning man does not have faith, as he flails about, that the water could hold him up. What is the true nature of water? Incapable of allowing flotation? If you act "as if" water can hold you up, it will. Learning to live as the words of Christ instruct allows you to float. You do not have to "believe," but it sure helps keep you from falling back into feeling you are the only one who can save yourself.

[@halcyonzenith4411]

A lot of people return to childish sentimentality in old age, as they become aware of their mortality, and magical thinking becomes an attractive escape from the reality of their imminent death.

[@goldenarm2118]

Believing in God is not a childish sentimentality. It's a quite legitimate position to hold as we see the majority of the world believing in some deity. And if you don't believe in some deity, you believe in naturalism. Everyone believes something.

[@halcyonzenith4411]

@@goldenarm2118 What a nonsense non argument. Blabber-jabber just like we've come to expect.

[@SetTheCaptivesFree4797]

Evidence the wind exists please.

[@goldenarm2118]

@@halcyonzenith4411 My statement highlighted the inclination of the human to believe in a god. In other words, the inclination for humans to believe in a god is not restricted to children, as the OP suggested. This is evidenced by the majority of adult humans holding to some deity. In other words, faith is not restricted to children or people nearing death. People of all ages have faith, and, as I said, if you don't have faith in a deity, you have faith in naturalism. I did not argue that a deity is real simply because the majority of people on earth believe in some deity. What is nonsense is your inability to actually see what was said in the OP and my response. Would hate to debate you. You sound like a woman.

[@halcyonzenith4411]

@@SetTheCaptivesFree4797 Go outside in a hurricane.

[@Living-With-Mangos]

An amazing philosopher is Dr. Peter Krieft

[@El_Bruno7510]

An amazing critical thinker is Matt Dilahunty

[@stvnnmnn]

I have been an atheist most of my life. Not believing in god isn't a faith position. We don't have faith that god doesn't exist. We don't believe the claim that there is a god. I am not wishing that god doesn't exist and hope that he doesn't. I feel the idea of a god sounds too far fetched to be possible. Religious people tell me that god exists, but I don't think there is such a thing at all. This ridiculous comparison to Christion "Faith" to atheism is just grasping at some weird straw and is being overplayed in a lot of circles. Let it go, it is not the same as religious faith at all. Yes I do have faith in things, but I am afraid that is another definition of the word. You really need to think about this more.

[@jackfrost2978]

Atheistism is very much a faith. Atheists have faith. That science has it mostly right at this point. That scientists have not lied for the sake of pride, funding, or pressure to produce results. An honest atheist. Believes there is no other life out there. That there are no other dimensions or universes out there. That takes a lot of faith.

[@StephensCrazyHour]

We all have axiomatic presuppositions in which we place faith. We also all have a belief in who we want to be, what we want to attain and where we want to go next, at least to some extent. "Our truth" is the direction we need to take to get there. You argue that "no such thing" as God exists, and I would agree, since God is not a "thing". He is not material, but neither is "momentum" a thing, or the concept of three a thing. A creator God may not exist (though that would make the universe equivalent to God in that respect), but the thing or person that we aim to be occupies the "God" location in our psyche. Christians place Christ in that spot. Atheists place something or someone else there.

[@jennyd5054]

So then you are an agnostic. It requires actual faith to be an atheist because there is no way to scientifically prove that God doesn’t exist.

[@vanessac0382]

How do you know you’re an atheist if you don’t have faith. How do you know you have faith on things if atheism isn’t a type of faith. Your position presuppose knowledge and that knowledge is contingent, the problem is where it came from.

[@chrismachin2166]

The question I would ask an atheist is , “ Does Evil exist?” The statement by atheists (mostly) is “there is so much Evil in the world ,therefore God doesn’t exist”. Once an atheist declares Evil exists,they are on a “sticky wicket.” Even though we can’t understand the amount of Evil in the world,the Christian knows God has sufficient reason for Evil to exist.

[@shuai83]

1:25 John Wise: "I'm definitely a moron in one way or another." There you have it folks. The "how."

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

You're neither handsome nor a general. Grow up, girly-man!

[@shuai83]

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 That insult really hurts coming from a man called Apu Puff Daddy! Does growing up involve going back to believing in fairy tales? Hard pass

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

@@shuai83 It involves growing up and listening to what the speaker actually said: I am an 'oxymoron', referring to his contradictory life story. It's a play on words, but since you're not grown up, you wouldn't have known that. Now, run along child, and keep believing there's no existence other than the material.

[@shuai83]

@@apubakeralpuffdaddy392 Keep threating people with non-visible and non-material torture chambers. That's really mature of you.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

@@shuai83 Well, life on planet earth ain't forever, general. So what comes next? Worm food or eternity?

[@clarekuehn4372]

Please put link to subsequent part of interview into the description below the video, and link to this one there.

[@hughjarrse]

Relatively new to the Christian dollar I'm guessing 😁

[@dukeemzworth3005]

It is like starting to believe in Santa Clause at age 40.

[@xravenx24fe]

Mockery doesn't make you right, it just makes you look more foolish than the ones you think are fools...

[@bond3161]

There's a good argument for the Lord. Care to know? What do you believe and why?

[@dukeemzworth3005]

Yet to hear any.

[@bond3161]

@@dukeemzworth3005 two ways to approach Best evidence and null hypothesis Once again, what do you believe and why

[@dukeemzworth3005]

@@bond3161 - I don't believe in any God/s (like those of all the major religions that I know of), because I have no good reason to do so. Another cause for my disbelief is the "reason to lie" principle. On many other topics I believe many things for various reasons, too numerous to mention here.

[@richardventus1875]

The evidence from science and mathematics is that you can be a person of deep personal Faith but not what anyone would call 'religious'. I have followed the Guidelines of Problacism for many years and consequently I have been given everything I could possibly ever need or want. I also don't suffer from any anxieties, fears or depression. Problacism does not require any prayer, churches, iconoclasm or worship. All it requires is that you lose all your ego and indiscriminately help everyone who is 'sent' to you without any expectation of recognition or reward. Trust in the Universe and be Relentless.

[@hongotedesco8931]

Wow. Never heard of Problacism so I checked out the web page. It certainly is very appealing in many respects, although I can't agree with everything, in particular "only the universe knows what it wants". I guess it depends on what that means. I don't believe the universe has any consciousness, it's just humming along to the laws of physics. So if "knowing what it wants" means "humming along to the laws of physics", then sure, I'd agree with that.

[@yamahajapan5351]

I wonder which god he found. There are so many to choose from. Also, I find it amusing that few people actually name the god/gods they believe in. Does he believe in YHWH or Jesus? Marduk? Ishtar? Jupiter? Please tell us.

[@oadefisayo]

But he states categorically that it is Christ that he found

[@yamahajapan5351]

@@oadefisayo “Christ” is a title not a name….

[@GhostBearCommander]

@@yamahajapan5351 Indeed. Christ is a title. Still, it only refers to a single person.

[@yamahajapan5351]

@@GhostBearCommander so his god is a person? Wow! Worshiping a man is a sin!!!

[@TheNikolinho]

And this is a textbook ignorance, kids! Thanks for reading how NOT to respond!

[@chelleb3055]

I had severe grand mal seizures as a child, several per day and there were times my mom said I died and came back telling her all about heaven and angels. I don't remember that but I do have all the "symptoms" of someone who has had an NDE. Multiple supernatural experiences have happened throughout my life including seeing Jesus Christ in a shared vision with an ex boyfriend. I can say 100% we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

[@El_Bruno7510]

So it is more likely that you did have NDE that involved the religious supernatural of the environment you grew up in, than an unexplained function of the brain (like dreaming) that included what your mom - and I assume you - believed to be true? I go with the latter. Many NDE's have been claimed and natural explanations have been found for most of them. Sure, there are some that are unexplained, and they seem real to the person going through the experience, but we don't know everything. Ask yourself this: Why would a God remain hidden for most of the time, but allow people who get near to death to see heaven then come back from it? If that God wants us to know then make it clear, if it doesn't then keep it hidden until we die properly. That is why I think it is more likely a function of the brain than of a genuine glimpse of heaven.

[@hongotedesco8931]

It's just your interpretation given the environment you grew up in. All gods and religions have been invented. There is zero evidence for anything supernatural.

[@chelleb3055]

@@El_Bruno7510 Yes, it definitely leaves more questions than answers for me. I dabbled in psychedelics as well and had some really "spiritual" experiences then, too, but they were definitely different. Until someone experiences something actually supernatural it's hard to believe. I still don't know what I believe about God but it's not in the churches that's for sure.

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@chelleb3055 My son turned religious after being an outspoken atheist off the back of an NDE after a drug related episode. I am sure that his experience was the brain protecting itself with the knowledge he had of religion due to his debating. He is convinced of God - the Christian God of course! - but is unable to show me any evidence for his belief. I just hope I am rational enough for that not to affect me if it should happen to me, unless I am presented the evidence by God that is compelling enough to convince others of course! My completely amateur suspicion is that psychedelics are the main historical reason for religion in this world, off the back of those who took them being regarded as more important in ancient times. That explains why there are so many different religions!

[@iainrae6159]

As Bertrand Russell was asked by God, 'why did you not believe in me ?' Berty replied, ' Not enough evidence dear boy' ' Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ' Carl Sagan

[@tommore3263]

It was embarrassing to watch Russell in his famous BBC debate in 1948 with Jesuit philosopher Frederick Copleston. Russel didn't even know the first premise of the classic argument... and people sill say... in total ignorance... "So what caused God then:.. repeating Russell's unforgivable ignorance. Its not an unimportant issue. He also later denied the existence of the universe and of .... Bertrand Russell and causation. Idiocy. Atheism really is idiotic.

[@kimjensen8207]

@@tommore3263 you're right - Copleston definitely offered a fair share of intelligent opposition to the atheist core beliefs in that debate, cause - these people, our atheist friends, though they'll never admit it, actually have some sort of quasi religiously oriented system with a whole variety of doctrines that must be accepted on a purely faith based approach John Lennox, former professor in mathematics at Oxford, met both with Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens, and - Lord almighty, John taught them both like kids in school! But still - they just don't get it... Thank you Kind regards Kim

[@tommore3263]

@@kimjensen8207 Hi Kim. Good points. One almost never finds an atheist who has ever studied philosophy of religion and the refutations of atheist philosophers. And these days there's still a naive physicalist dogmatism that even modern physics has shown to be false. I'm not a huge fan of the influence of Freud but he did observe that the intellect is "the slave of the passions". In the US only 1.6% of Americans are atheists with college educations. The "nones" also reject atheism. The Oxford study on Cognition and Religion in 2011 found that worldwide, rational creatures are naturally religious. Our own rationality refutes materialism as does our free will which even quantum physics affirms for physical bodies. (Bell's theorem results , 2015). Philosopher Ed Feser is solid on these issues. So is philosopher Peter Kreeft. God IS REASON. Cheers

[@El_Bruno7510]

@@tommore3263 You've found a little niche of delusion in amongst the rationality of most posts here. What is your definition of atheism? The modern definition is disbelief in any Gods, nothing more. I hold with that view due to the lack of compelling evidence to the contrary.

[@MJ-tj3nd]

Does that extraordinary claim require extraordinary evidence , or double standard ? What is the measurement of extraordinary evidence anyway ? ( as pointed out by elementary level students in philosophy in 1979 when Sagon made that comment) It’s just an excuse to keep shaking your head “ no no no “ .. it’s a dodge to stay committed to your dogma

[@aelwyn1]

If an atheist becomes a Christian, it doesn't mean Christianity is true. Similarly, if Darwin became a young earth creationist, it wouldn't invalidate evolution.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

Your analogy is funny: Young Earth Creationism is only ONE view of Creationism and is a flauded interpretation of the Ancient Hebrew context of Genesis.

[@555atU]

Evolution is already invalidated ...science invalidated it.

[@rl7012]

macro evolution invalidates itself. It is utter nonsense and has no scientific back up.

[@GhostBearCommander]

Darwin was never, not once in his life, an Atheist in the first place. Coming from a Medical Lab Scientist who accepts Micro-evolution via Natural Selection (not Macro), Evolution does basically nothing to invalidate belief in God.

[@555atU]

@@GhostBearCommander even natural selection is being challenged by scientists like James Shapiro who wrote a book about these changes as being "programmed" termed Natural Genetic Engineering. He demonstrates that changes are activated under extraordinary circumstances of stress and occur suddenly and not over long periods of time. Interesting stuff.

[@Ian90666]

May the Good LORD Bless you abundantly 😇👍

[@El_Bruno7510]

Joke right?

[@JStrummer1]

So now that he's getting old he's figured he'd better hedge his bet. 🤣

[@fentonmulley5895]

The fact that a guy who didn't fully believe went on multiple missions is why Christianity deserves to be mocked. To go into someone else's culture and tell them things about a god you don't know exists is disgusting. It isn't altruism to perpetuate the abuse that is hell belief and god confusion.

[@gfujigo]

Mock us all you want. God is still the best explanation for reality and the facts we observe. Nothing else even comes remotely close. All the evidence of reality points to God. Period the end. All the best to you. 👍🏿🙂

[@fentonmulley5895]

@@gfujigo what explains the rules of soul building that Yahweh struggles against? Why couldn't he show more mercy and still be successful? Given that perfect means unable to be improved, why would god create? It would defy his identity to change in any way. The conclusions that follow from gods supposed attributes do not make this world a possibility.

[@fentonmulley5895]

@@lark8356 why would you think I would want to respond to your copy paste job? Can't you answer my questions succinctly in a paragraph?

[@lark8356]

​@Fenton Mulley I'm interested in establishing a lasting conversation with you. KZbin is not ideal for that.

[@gfujigo]

@TDMH Of course.

[@BBshark000]

Elephant in the room: so why Christianity?

[@Chrisbi-Wan]

Motivated faith, so true. In this guy's case, it sounds like what ended up motivating his faith was wanting to marry that christian woman, a common story I'm sure. I'm interested to hear in the next episode how he rationalized his faith change.

[@Chrisbi-Wan]

I recognize that I left Mormonism, similarly, not for rational reasons, but because I was unhappy within it and didn't feel like I could be authentic and therefor couldn't have authentic genuine fulfilling relationships. Now I'm a new ager looking in on christianity and trying to figure out why there seems to be so much power and healing in the name of Christ, while also trying to remain authentic and rational.

[@glynnp42]

You realize that another way to look at this is that she wouldn't have him (and I mean HAVE him) unless he changed his belief system and became a Christian. And so he did. Pretty pathetic I have to say.

[@glynnp42]

@@Chrisbi-Wan No, I meant HAVE him. I can't believe I need to spell this out to you. As in SEX.

[@mohammedsuleman580]

​@@Chrisbi-Wanhi, may I ask where you are on your journey in trying to figure out why there seems to be so much power and healing in the name of JESUS CHRIST?

[@mohammedsuleman580]

@@Chrisbi-Wan quite a spiritualistic view, well obviously there is no way I could prove it but I belive that CHRIST is ultimate in power, in the spiritual and physical world, I was born into Islam, became atheist, then a theist who absolutely hated GOD, like raise my fist and even give him the finger on a regular basis, I ended up in a real dark place, and then at the lowest place I've ever been, BOOM! I meet CHRIST (in spirit) and nothings ever been the same again🙂 Obviously I could never prove it to anyone, but people all around me have seen the effects of my experience, well I just wanted to share that and say that maybe you could consider that CHRIST is actually a being rather than just a concept or a channel of pure energy or something like that.

[@kevincurrie-knight3267]

I am an atheist, probably more accurately a nontheist. I agree with Wise on the point that atheists tend to overestimate what reason can and should do in lives, and therefore, almost inevitably fail to get the idea of a Christian or other religious faith. But - maybe this will be covered in part 2? - Wise takes that and basically implies by it that all faiths are thereby somehow equal in 'worthiness.' Like, oh, the atheist has faith in the methods of science, so therefore, she has no grounds to criticize Qanon, who have a faith in Alex Jones. I think atheists and nontheists will be able to say that even if they have faiths, their faiths are faiths in things that are less fantastical or maybe (in the case of the scientific process) proven more reliable than the Christian story. And by the way, atheists are right to point out that the way Christians see Scientologists faith as silly, wrong, and unfounded, that's really the way atheists see all religious faiths. So, it's not like Christians just have faith in Christianity, but a particular understanding of the holy book, where they can readily see how flawed OTHER understandings of that holy book are but fail to apply that scrutiny to their own interpretation.

[@El_Bruno7510]

Modern atheism is the disbelief in any Gods so far claimed, not the belief there are no Gods. Atheism is not a faith, in the religious sense. Atheism is based on (ideally) testable, demonstrable, repeatable, evidence. Someone comes along and proves a God, atheists will believe in that God. The trouble is, you can't disprove all Gods and when logical arguments are put forward to disprove certain Gods, and the theist cannot see the inconsistencies in their belief, resorting to "free will", "we cannot understand God's plan", "objective purpose, meaning and morality", "God is by definition moral" then we have no chance of a rational argument!

[@DennisMerwood-xk8wp]

@@El_Bruno7510 Casting your pearls before swine here El Bruno! Rational thinking is not their strong suite!

[@alwyndsilva1858]

Finding God needs only an attitudinal and approachable change ie from skepticism to Humility.....it's that easy

[@johnmonk3381]

No you have to shut off all reason and just believe on pure blind faith

[@beaulin5628]

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." A genuine"Christian" is created only by a supernatural act of God upon the soul whereby a person becomes certain God exists by inner experience, and not by reason and intellect alone. "Saving faith" is about raising men who are inwardly "dead to God" to vital life in a relationship with God that will last forever. It is not about just getting men to give mental assent to "doctrines" concerning Christianity, although those doctrines and the Word of God are what God uses to make them alive from the dead. Eventually their bodies will also be "raised from the dead", like Jesus was. John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the SPIRIT is spirit." John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." Ephesians 2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;"

[@leibhicks8444]

The only thing less intellectual and void of critical thinking than this person's story are the comments lauding his 'heroism'.

[@willielee5253]

@ God bless you on your journey!!!

[@El_Bruno7510]

Magic non existent being bless you too.