How accurate is a Zwift FTP ramp test | Ramp V's 20 min test

[@ashleyhouse9690]

I'm not a racer but have been a serious recreational cyclist for many years. I've done many 20 minute FTP tests in the past so am quite comfortable pacing myself over that time to get a reasonably accurate result. I have done a couple of Zwift ramp tests in recent years which tend to closely agree with my 20 minute efforts but I don't like the ramp test because it pushes you to your absolute max trying to wring out every last watt of your FTP! Just recently I bought a new Zwift Hub trainer so I thought I would test it out by having a pop at trying to beat my personal best time up Alpe de Zwift. Long story short I beat my best time by over 2 minutes for just over an hour's ride and ended up getting to within 1 watt of my currently measured FTP. What I found in essence was I had actually done an unplanned, pukka, one-hour FTP test, something I had never attempted before, and never will again. It was brutal. Whatever test you decide on, I think things definitely get more accurate the more times you do it because as you said, you have a figure to base your next effort on.

[@OUTDOORS55]

The only reason to do an ftp test is to get your training zones appropriately. If you can't do a 5x5 vo2 max session at 110% of your tested ftp your ftp is not correct. If your workouts (5x5, 2x20, over unders etc.) feel too easy, bump up the watts for the workouts. If they feel too hard and yu are constantly not completing them, lower the watts. Your workouts are the most important numbers, not ftp. After a couple years of doing structured training you'll start to get an idea of whats too hard and too easy and when to adjust.

[@ColoCX]

nice video. a couple thoughts since you asked for comments: 1) you would need to do at least 327 watts for 20 min to achieve a FTP of 311 watts since you take 95% of your 20 min power to determine your FTP. Some people say it's even closer to 90%. 2) you can use your normalized power from a 60 min race to estimate your FTP which takes into account the surges in power. 3) the 5 min effort done before the 20 min test is designed to minimize anaerobic contribution in your 20 min power not necessarily contribute to overall fatigue per se.

[@thewattlife]

Always appreciate people's thoughts. Yup, this is something i wasnt very aware of until i did this little test and people shared more info on how FTP relates to performative watts. Should be giving a proper FTP 20 min test a go next week at some stage

[@mumblecake251]

Another thing to note is that your FTP would be 95% of your best 20min power. Meaning to truly have an FTP of 311W you wouldn't just have to hold those 311W for 20min but you'd have to hold 327-328W for those 20min. As you already mentioned, the ramp test does overinflate the FTP significantly. Even if you had barely held on for the last 5min it would have "only" (still very good) resulted in an FTP of 295W. At the end of the day FTP is vanity, 1/5min power is sanity and race placement is reality.

[@thewattlife]

All good info to know and something i didnt realise at the time. Looks like i have my work cut out for me

[@decathon86]

The 95% comes from a test where before the 20min max test you do a 5min max test, as pre-exhaustion with 10min of recover between the two tests. Without this 5min max test before, you better use 90%. The best is still the 60min test for FTP, because that is what the FTP is.

[@porkchopexpress5661]

I didn’t know about the max test first. Interesting! Sitting at FTP (or close) for 1hr is the absolute worst - but 100% agree.

[@stianpollestad754]

My take on an ftp test is, that I don’t put that much into the numbers. At least don’t compare your numbers with others due to type of rider, calibration, accuracy of smart trainer etc. But it is a good indication of your progress. If you increase your ftp after a good training program, it shows that you are stronger of course, but it is the differential that is important not the actual number. An increase of 20 W gives a better indication than if your ftp is 280 or 295 W etc. Must say I like your channel. Very relatable. Keep it up 👍

[@barrowsworm1226]

The thing is, to train effectively one needs ot have their zones set pretty accurately in relation to lactate threshold. Without lab testing and getting blood lactate levels measured, an accurate estimate of FTP is the next best way to get one's training zones set. So one does have to put something into the numbers if one wants to be able to train effectively.

[@phydomir909]

Interesting comparison. My 2cts about both protocols. (while keeping in mind, that i consider FTP tests just something to set training zones.) The ramp test is great for anyone who is new to structured training or has been of the bike for a while. You just go until you literally can't pedal anymore. No worries about pacing etc. But, it won't be accurate for some people. It might overestimate (like in your case) or underestimate. The 20min test is better if you already have a feel of what your FTP might be. But it's still difficult to pace correctly. Nothing more frustrating then blowing up 17mins into your test, because you went out to hard. A workout i like to do to see if my FTP is set correctly is something like 4x10min at FTP with 5mins of rest in between. If you can complete that and not feel destroyed after the last 10mins, your FTP is set correctly.

[@ashleyhouse9690]

@phydomir909 I agree that with experience, you can pretty much confirm your FTP doing interval sessions of the sort you describe.

[@foreveryoung8097]

This is a good video showing how the ramp test is not the same as a 20 minute test. I’ve been doing 20 and 60 minute tests for well over a decade, and ramp “ftp” tests are something that was created more recently for the beginning rider as the 20 and 60 minute tests are too hard for the starting rider. If you can’t complete a 20 minute test at the power you that believe is your ftp then that is not your ftp for sure. Good to see that you’re trying different things on your videos.

[@thewattlife]

I can appreciate this- ive only started cycling properly this year so a lot is new to me, and if i had tried to do a 20 min test it would have been an explosion of awfulness. I might try holding 10-15 watts lower and see whether/how long i can hold that for

[@johngrattan302]

Thank for the info👍 1st time attempt at this ftp stuff and completed Ramp and gonna some day soon hit 20 min test. Obviously I’m not looking far to this but will do it so I get a baseline of where I’m at. Thanks again for vid👍

[@jackowens_]

I've always found the 5 min or 6 min max that precedes the 20 minute effort in the classic FTP test changes the 20 minute quite a bit vs what I could do as a stand alone 20 minute effort. Nice video!

[@thewattlife]

I think im going to give the classic 20 min FTP test a go in a few weeks so will do the full protocol and see how i hold up

[@jackowens_]

@@thewattlife awesome. Looking forward to seeing your results!

[@ashleyhouse9690]

@@thewattlife I wouldn't use the workout plus ERG mode that you showed in your video. Just do a Zwift FTP test (not ramp test) because it uses a 20 minute free ride and doesn't tie you to a set wattage. You can use a negative split then if you know how to pace yourself.

[@HawkEurope]

You are on the right track. Depending on your training (and some parts physiology) you are better at aerobic or at anaerobic efforts. I did have a hard time pushing the pedals at the ramp test at 120-125% FTP but find it comparably easier to just do 20 minutes at 105% FTP. But I believe I have a good aerobic system due to lots of zone 2 training. I can ride long tours of 6+ hours with long climbs quite well but I'm no good sprinter and would be a bad racer. If you race and train for it you need to have a good anaerobic power (i.e. to counter attacks). I believe you can do 20 minutes at your FTP. Maybe start with 2*10 with a short break, then up to 2*15 and so on. Train your body with zone 2 to improve lactate clearing and test at FTP to get used to the pain of longer threshold efforts.

[@ccamire]

Thanks for the review. I never used FTP for anything in my riding or exercising at home. Rather I use my threshold lactate which i can sustain for 3 hrs.

[@thewattlife]

What did you use to establish your threshold lactate?

[@psymanj73]

Interesting video 🤔 I think it shows that the numbers are in the ballpark but with an element of variance about them. Regardless though, I can definitely see the strength improving in your riding and am looking forward to that video showing you staying with the front group till the end of a big race 💪 🚴

[@warwickzwifts]

I think the fluctuations in ERG mode make it harder to hold a steady effort like this and the red peaks might suggest that to be true. Maybe next time try not connecting the controllable Zwift connection to anything. Then find the right gear and cadence for the effort and focus on holding that cadence and the steady power should come with it. You may be able to add a bit more time to the effort but I doubt you’ll ever get near an hour of your actual FTP because I have read it is rare for anyone to be able to do that or even get close.

[@barrowsworm1226]

Most amateur cyclists do not have the mental strength to actually ride at their FTP for a full hour. World Tour level pros can, as they have learned to be able to hold very high efforts, without going above (critical) for long periods of time: IE, they know how to suffer right on the edge of the red zone, without going over. If one looks at the training sessions of some pros on Strava, it is quite impressive seeing how good pro cyclists are at maintaining a very even power output, at very high power levels.

[@camonin]

In my opinion the problem in 2x 8min, 20min and 60min tests is the fact that there has to be a target set before testing to produce a good quality effort. That means there is a chance to fail and succeed and because of that, it becomes a mental test just as much as it is a physical one. Ramp test is a different proposition, as it just like taking of a bandage in comparison and it is more focused on all-out physical performance. Also, I wouldn't get too focused on testing as is. Testing is only a tool to achieve efficient & high quality training, and good training is testing in itself (although not usually measuring FTP).

[@martincburns]

Any test regardless of the format is a mental one and a chance to fail / succeed. If you're dialed into your numbers it's not that difficult to set a realistic stretch goal for a set interval to improve on a previous best. You'll know pretty early on if that goal is achievable or if you need to back off a bit, you might also feel great and be able to push a little bit harder. Testing definitely gets easier the more you do it.

[@rjl6789]

Not sure why you wouldn’t use the Zwift 20 min test. It’s got some good blocks before the test to get you ready. Btw if you think your ftp is x, then target x/0.95. (Training peaks and trainerday also have good ftp test blocks). From your racing efforts you look strong. Why not split the 20 into 5 minute blocks. Start 280 then increase by 10 each block, or however much you think. Then once you’ve got your bearings hit it the next week with a more consistent 20 effort. Anyway, there my non expert tuppence. Enjoy and look forward to seeing your next race!

[@thewattlife]

This does sounds like a good way of doing it- if im honest im still trying to keep the long goal in sight so never quite feel 100% and i want to do a full 20 min FTP Zwift test video in the next month where i go though all the ramps before hand. Secretly trying to schedule it for after i have some work days where i wont be able to cycle for the most rest. Will be racing Monday eve 6pm UTC not sure what Cat youre in but dive in if youre free

[@thewattlife]

Also- just to say i was keen to use erg mode for the test so that it would always adjust my wattage to 310 despite my cadence/effort. I dunno, seemed to make sense in my head at the time given i was trying to hold a specific wattage and not trying to complete a certain time to extrapolate my FTP.

[@rjl6789]

Sounds ok. If you do want to use erg… perhaps a strategy of having the block set achievable then manually ramp it up as you go. I’d really recommend “Freeform” though, you’d be surprised how consistent you can be at threshold once you’ve got a realistic idea where you are. I’m high C… skirting the borders but not up to B yet. I’ve enjoyed the mid week SZR races. There’s a bit more delineation for each category with a “high” and “low” race for each cat. Something you you might enjoy as well… anyway , all the best. R

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

Interesting video Max! I find that holding threshold wattage in ERG mode feels much harder than holding the same wattage in Sim (non ERG) mode. I wonder if you would have found it easier to complete if it wasn't in ERG mode. I think that might be why the 20min part of the long FTP test on Zwift is in Free ride mode rather than ERG. If you want to bump up your 1min, 2min, 5min power, have a look at the weekly Zwift Hill Climb Racing series, where only the KOM time matters. These short hill climbs really push your numbers to the limit! I'm within touching distance of A Cat due to these short hill climbs.

[@thewattlife]

Good to know re: erg mode. Im going to do a Swift 20 min FTP test in the next week or so and im hoping it should make the effort more measured and 'smooth' not being in erg. I think I've done one of those climb races- people take a break between climbs right? 1-5 min efforts are what im currently focusing on so might have to jump into another one

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

@@thewattlife Yes, you start the race as a slow warmup and then ramp up your effort as you get to the start of the climb. It's only one climb per week and the climbs get longer over the weeks. This week it's the Petit KOM so around 5-6min effort. Next week is the last week in this series which is Keith Hill, I think that's around 9-10mins. Then it should reset back to a short climb for the start of the next series and each week the climb should get longer.

[@thewattlife]

Im in. \will join when its back to the short one for a series

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

@@thewattlife Nice one, there's a weekly league table on Zwift Power and also an overall GC table for the whole series too so you can see how you're doing each week. Good luck!

[@1carusjohn32]

Max, just remember that ftp is power only, and there is no correlation to w/kg. You can equate it to your weight but ftp only ever gives a power number. The ramp test takes something like 75% of your last 1 minute power in that test... works for some but not for others like yourself. The ftp number actually relates to what you can hold for a longer duration say 35mins to 1 hr. The 20 min ftp test is like the ramp test, they are both jut tests that calculate an approximation of your ftp. In the 20 min case the average power is taken to be about 105% of your ftp, ie in the case in the video if you want an ftp of 310 from a a 20 min ftp test you are gonna have to be hitting close to 330 for the 20 minutes. ( Nastier than you though I think!!)

[@thewattlife]

OH holy cr4p... ok thanks for sharing this and good to know. Just on a journey of discovery- looks like i really have my work cut out for me but i am really enjoying it.

[@1carusjohn32]

@@thewattlife to get to Cat A on zwift you pretty much have to hold 4.21 w/kg for 20 minutes if that is your goal. It feels touchable at times but it is quite hard by any standard to reach. I did ride the alpe this week just to check and at my weight I need 3.3 for the hour, 3.2 was just over the hour. Also once in ERG mode it matters not what course you ride, the System is controlling your power not the undulations in the virtual terrain. ( might play with your head though)

[@razorree]

standard FTP 20mins tests also requires ~5 mins vo2max or above effort - to deplete anaerobic power, then rest 10 mins and THEN 20 mins effort. and then try 311*105% = 326W

[@thewattlife]

@razorree Yup- i have one of those on my channel somewhere, have a quick look. The idea behind this was more to show that the ramp test score that was provided to me was not accurate- and to prove that i tried to maintain my hypothetical ramp test FTP for as long as possible. Hope that makes sense. The ramp test plays more to my strengths so there is more of a bias towards me than on the 20 min FTP test

[@razorree]

@@thewattlife yep. I think I have the same 'issue'. I came from MTB and I don't do looong rides often. My high aerobic, vo2max and anaerobic power is above an average (comparing to my 60-120 mins output)

[@thewattlife]

Do you know the difference in your ramp and 20 min test? Min ended up being something like 35 watts, but I’m quite new and not great at controlled efforts

[@CBRMackie63]

Your blue graph for your 20 min warmup suggests you never got out of Z2, that's not a warmup. I would suggest doing a couple 15-20 second spin-ups into Z4 to get the lactate flowing into the quads in small amounts. That will help with that first 2-minute quad burn. I've watched quite a few of your races and you have a high cadence. I'm curious as to why you chose 80-85 instead of the 90-95 that you normally ride at. I think you would fare better if you did this at 85-90 and leaned more on your aerobic capacity which would be normal for you. Just my 2 cents...keep up the great content!

[@thewattlife]

Yeah this is a very good point and i think there are times when i tried to spin up higher but was just struggling. Perhaps something to do with not having the experience holding those watts for that amount of time. I did a few efforts before the ramp up in a free ride before jumping into the workout

[@martincburns]

Definitely agree here, 90-95 rpm is a more natural cadence for the indoor trainer where you don't have road surfaces etc to deal with. I have strong legs too and can grind away at low 80s but you want to maximise your aerobic system by spinning a bit faster. Would highly recommend doing some cadence drills both high and low to work on different aspects of the pedal stroke. Also for what it's worth my FTP is 290 (3.6w/kg) based on my 20 min best power curve that was done during a 1 hour all out (outdoor) effort (Ended with 275w 60 min power and had to hold >90% HR avg to achieve that). My 5 min power best was 395w last week. Would definitely echo other's comments that 311w seems quite a bit overestimated and will make your training zones inaccurate. It's good to triangulate your FTP by looking at a whole bunch of metrics holistically. Also would recommend checking out critical power testing, it seems to be more useful than FTP in determining your ability as a rider. Like you I only took up riding this year and am hooked!

[@morellish]

As you said in the end it is for you possible to probably hold on another 5 mins and completing a 20 min test. You'll still have that heart rate drift that you really can't have to complete a full 60 mins, because it will accumulate and you will struggle. I think these short FTP tests(ramp and 20 min) show a bit more how much you can suffer than how fit you are sometimes. I understand that it is very difficult to know what sustained numbers you might be able to hold for 60 mins, and what that would even feel like for a beginner. I'm all for it but sometimes peoples FTP, even my own, feels inflated when I think of keeping that number for 1 whole hour and how different that is to suffering for 5-10 mins mentally.

[@josephclarke7133]

My understanding if you do a proper FTP test is that even with ERG mode off that Zwift will disable the impact of climbs (your speed will change but not the perceived difficulty).

[@thewattlife]

Hmmm interesting to know. I know that Erg mode is meant to make it so the resistance doesn’t change on climbs but there’s just something that seems to feel like to do ever so slightly for a few seconds

[@markusseppala6547]

Holding constant power with same cadence on the flat really kills my legs fast. Try holding the power up Alpe du Zwift for example, I like to use low trainer difficulty to simulate flat with small hills outside. Those changes in cadence help a lot with long efforts and changing gears distract from the pain. This of course means no erg mode. Also make sure your cooling is good enough (a blower fan like vacmaster or wahoo headwind) or you get a feeling that your legs tire out when actually you are overheating.

[@thewattlife]

Yeah I think I’m going to experiment with trainer difficulty over the next few weeks

[@ericbarnettcycling]

I only take ramp tests, and only compare them to eachother to have an overall picture of my fitness. Performance changes day to day, so everything is a moving target.

[@thewattlife]

i agree- i love doing a ramp test as its a great reference point to keep coming back to and in all honestly they dont take up much time and dont heavily effect your training! Bottom line- if the numbers keep going up = good

[@Jan_Arends]

Do not use ERG mode for FTP and most FTP tests have a different warming up protocol where you already reach required load in warming up. I also did not reach the end of my last 20 min. FTP test due to fatigued legs. I still got a good estimate of my FTP(Different training program than Zwift).

[@thewattlife]

I wasnt really using it for an FTP test, more just of a way to see if i could hold a certain wattage and for how long. Turns out i think that the ERG mode might have made it a little more difficult

[@Spotofgardening]

291watts is crazy to me 😂 as a relative beginner i recently did the gorby workout, my final 5 mins i averaged 177 watts which i was pretty happy with. I definitely notice this heart rate drift as well. I want to do another ftp to see where i am, i havent been doing any structured training and been switching workouts between weightlifting and zwift but alsways thinking im not fresh enough for 20 mins of pain 😂

[@thewattlife]

Ive done both the FTP ramp test and the Zwift 20 min FTP test and i can tell you know that the 20 min FTP test is way harder. So if your training volume is high you might be better off doing a ramp test which i think if you did with a bit of fatigue would give you a reasonable number. With these tests though i think the best thing is to use them as a bench mark and try and keep improving.

[@1carusjohn32]

Max, in races what trainer difficulty do you use?. Zwift default is 50% but it may be worth you experimenting with a slightly lower number like 30%. It would flatten the undulations to a degree allowing you to spin up with the terrain rather than torque up or drop a gear. Also note, at zero % trainer difficulty your trainer is acting like a set of rollers where the power output is pretty much proportional to wheel speed and the system or terrain is not controlling your power at all. You can race in this mode, the disadvantage is that you cant feel the terrain undulations in the pedals but you can basically dial in a cadence and get an exact power for it similar to erg mode but you are effectively in control etc. something like 30% reduces the amount of shifting that you have to do but still gives you a enough feel in the pedals to be aware that the road is heading upwards.

[@iptranslations1987]

Here is my numbers: ramp test ftp = 308w; 20 min power = 326w (so FTP=309w); One hour effort in perfect conditions (velodrome) = 282w. So my opinion, that ramp test usually exaggregates FTP a little bit :)

[@thewattlife]

Thats very cool that youve done an 60 min velodrome effort. Was that an event?

[@mikeainsworth4504]

I have read in some other articles that the Ramp Test formula of taking 75% of Maximal Aerobic Power over estimates FTP for heavier more powerful riders and under estimates for lighter endurance/climber riders. I fall into the latter category (60kg); but, I still use the Ramp Test as I find it easier to replicate. I don’t ride to power in the real world so I only use the estimated FTP to set the zones for the workouts I do on the turbo - and the results of the Ramp Test seem to work for that (I don’t compete on my bike so out and out performance isn’t that important to me; I’m just trying to be as fit as I can be at 59 to enjoy riding my bike)

[@OliverJanShD]

I think you could have dug in for the last 4 minutes of that effort, your heart rate didn't seem to indicate you were at your limit. That being said, definitely a solid effort!

[@thewattlife]

Maybe in a few weeks ill try again at a slightly lower wattage. Perhaps 305 and see if that makes a significant difference

[@jesikat]

So your estimated FTP would be around 3.6W/kg, still an improvement from the 3.2! :) I actually do a ramp test first (using Wahoo SYSTM), when I feel I've gained in fitness to affect my workout targets, and then an FTP test a few days later--what SYSTM calls Full Frontal, is actually a test of 5sec, 1min, 5min, and 20min. And pretty much only test for the purpose of structured workouts.

[@thewattlife]

Ive been looking into the 4Dp test, which i think is what this protocol is. Im going to see if i can find a way to do one in the next few weeks as should be interesting

[@jesikat]

Make sure you're well rested! It's pretty brutal, I have it coming up in my training plan soon, never look forward to it...

[@Dispariabooks]

I'm an idiot and just decided to get myself used to 60 minute tests. I've been a TT specialist for years, so it's somewhat 'normal' for me...but man, it hurts. It is satisfying in a masochistic way :P

[@thewattlife]

You are a far superior man to me- I literally cry in the corner at the thought of a 60 min test

[@Dispariabooks]

@@thewattlife lol nah, I'm just dumb and somehow worked my way into that based on my goals. I do think everyone should try it at some point. If nothing else it really forces you to pay attention to your body (RPE over power) and learn pacing. But kudos for your progress and great work! I'm enjoying the vids :)

[@sirbrochill7757]

I took Ramp test, got 241. Start the FTP training plan can't finish tempo workouts whatsoever. Basically impossible and HR way too high. Mines probably closer to 210.

[@thewattlife]

I often dont make it to the end of workout or have to drop the intensity of the workout towards the end. I still think that im getting a lot of benefit and maybe more so than doing workouts that are too easy

[@lordjupu]

Position notice. Would you benefit lowering your saddle even 1-2cm, your hip is moving quite a lot and leg reach is quite extensive. Give it a try, 5mm at a time, any benefit to power production?

[@thewattlife]

I’ve done quite a bit of shifting of saddle height. I have a really tight posterior chain, so lower back, glutes and hamstrings. Tends to me my hips have to move to accommodate. I try to optimise for power over comfort- I will most definitely be doing a full bike fit on my new build when it’s ready in a few weeks 👌🏻

[@ECTproCycling]

Was this in ERG mode? Would be interesting to see the spikes or lack there of) if you tried the same test without ERG.

[@thewattlife]

Yup i did this one in erg because i wanted to see if i could hold a very specific number for a length of time. Im going to do a 20 min FTP Zwift test in a few weeks which wont be in erg mode and i guess we'll definitely see how my pedal stroek is effected but the problem with that is that i can just lower the watts when im getting tired so there might be less spikes. In theory

[@mariovr8416]

I tend to find my power is lower on zwift than outside. I have noticed that my hr is slightly lower on the trainer also, may be due to heat. It would be interesting to see if other users see a similar pattern. Might be time to freezes a set of gloves and see what happens to my performance.

[@thewattlife]

ha i wont be riding outside too much over the winter but i am just in the process of building a new bike which will be the first time i have a power meter and im massively excited

[@mariovr8416]

@thewattlife a power meter is a must. I would rather have an older bike and pm than a new bike with no pm.

[@mariovr8416]

I am watching the build. It will be a very nice ride 👍

[@martinsanto2561]

You can not do this in erg mode. Erg mode feels much more strenuous than to ride in free mode on zwift. And it depends on also of the device which you are using, like wahoo kickr or tacx. I'm using the stages smart bike. The erg mode is more comfortable than other devices. Anyway, your power output is great. Stay healthy and enjoy your fitness and riding your bike.

[@thewattlife]

A few people have said this and seems to make sense- it wasnt the smoothest of rides, im going to give a 20 min FTP test a go within the next week or so and thats a free ride test

[@nagasava8439]

Zwift does pull number even if you do free riding, not only from races. They use all of the power information.

[@thewattlife]

Yup- sorry to be clear, Zwift does, and those are the numbers i have listed, but Zwift Power only pulls from races and official events.

[@hardclaws]

To me the biggest flaw people make when they talk about FTP is they think it is the power you can hold for 1hour.. Pretty much a load of garbage really.. Your FTP is not made up of just 1 zone that you sit in. Every person is built differently. This is why when you do a race for 1hour you could have an average power of 311watts therefore you would say thats how many watts you can do in 1hour. This though would of been made up of alot of Zone 2/3 and then sprints into Zone 4 and 5. Bet if you redid this test and instead set the trainer to 250watts for 50mins and then try and push some big numbers over the last 10mins like 500 watts for 1min then back to 300 for 1min and then 400 watts for a min and then maybe try hold 350 until the 1 hour mark you could average out to that number. The only people I would expect to have an FTP of 311 and be able to sit on that for 1hour would be time trialists or Triathletes who train themselves to just hold 1 consistent power

[@thewattlife]

Yeah ive been looking into this more and more since sharing the video, although i do feel like i should be able to hold that for at least 20 mins. Apparently holding something like that for 20-35 mins would be possible and a good goal

[@John-dh1gh]

No, you really need to do an hour solid and prove you have the endurance. Perhaps do 250w for 15m and if you're ok, then do a further 15m at say 275, and if thats ok then say 300w for the last half hour. I see lots of people with these FTPs and they really do look overinflated. A Canadian domestic road cyclist champion seemed to think he did and could hold 300w for a few hours.

[@pieterboshoff2982]

Just a question. Should you not take the 280w and multiply it by 0.95 and that is your FTP

[@thewattlife]

Yes when you do a 20 min test that’s how it works.

[@gerrysecure5874]

My Zwift Ramp is 15% too high. Completely unusable unless you know and account for the error. Good for quick progress checking though.

[@thewattlife]

I see my Ramp FTP test as a target rather than an accurate figure. Gives me a bit of motivation with something to aim for lol

[@gerrysecure5874]

@@thewattlife I use my ftp solely to define training zones. What good is a super duper inflated hyper motivated tapered number that I cannot repeat 4 days later. I make my test somewhere in the first third of my training block with nil preparation. Rhen I do a 5min followed by 20min test in place of a regular interval and use Monod Scherrer formula. This gives hard but doable zones. Top notch training intensity is overrated. I trust in Seiler saying consistency and repeatability is more important.

[@boostenmkiv]

What did your heart rate look like for the ramp test? What is your max heart rate if you don't mind sharing. FWIW, I'm 4yrs older than you, I'm overweight, and have an FTP of ~310 and in a 50min CX race, my average heart rate is 169 and max usually 177bpm.

[@thewattlife]

Im absolute max is 179- but honestly i havent gotten it up to the 170's much in the last 4 weeks. For a race it should average mid to high 160's. Resting is in the mid/high 40's and sleep lowest is usually 40. I have a ramp test video on here too where you can see the HR data but i think it gets up to mid 160's. Highest HR is always in a race though

[@boostenmkiv]

@@thewattlife I went and watched a couple other videos of yours after this one, keep up the great content. I was thinking you may have gave up early, OR were carrying fatigue (lowering your max HR) which I see you covered in a few other videos.

[@bas2205]

Did you forget about the 95% factor? For 311W FTP, 20mins should be at 327W...

[@thewattlife]

I dont think i forgot it, i just dont think i know about it. Will adjust for next time

[@bas2205]

@@thewattlife Good luck racing tonight, bit too early for me, I am afraid.

[@martincburns]

Did you ever try the 20 min test again after this ?

[@thewattlife]

Hey Martin- yup I did an actual 20 min FTP test protocol. It's here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5rQpoV-h7-nfcksi=R_KX-b7HxJzb4c_A Also planning on doing one last week of 2024 or first week 2023

[@martincburns]

Yes found that after 🙂@@thewattlife not sure what stuctured training you are doing but would definitely recommend doing something like 2 x 20 mins at current estimated FTP with 10 min recovery between to get a feel for what a 85%-90% hard repeatable effort looks like for you and then aim realistically higher than that for the 20 min test. Has helped me a lot with pacing.

[@thewattlife]

Thanks- it’s the pacing I struggle with. I’ve got used to racing and trying to hold groups but not quite so good when I have to hold an effort solo @martincburns

[@Karan19880]

So can anyone please tell me that i have recently did my ramp test on erg mode and than after some time at 300 watts I can’t even pedal because everytime after 300 watts my roller become so hard that i can’t even pedal like even on stroke so please can any tell me why it is happening and i always see people doing ramp test and going a bit easy on 300 watts so why there smart trainer is not going hard why? And i have recently got to know about spiral of death but why it is happening with me everytime at 300 watts why not more than that? is there anything that you have to continue apply force on pedal than only it will work but if thats the case than also i am applying power to pedal after 300 watts but my trainer won’t make be do it because it gets so hard like you can’t even pedal so what the solution for this in ftp or ramp test please reply if anyone knows

[@thewattlife]

Try to make sure your cadence is above 65 RPM. If you go any slower when in erg mode it becomes incredibly hard and your turbo isn’t always about to do the calculation to keep it at the correct watts

[@Karan19880]

@@thewattlife okay thanks for replying and does gear ratio matters? Like if i put my gear Ratio to big ring and highest gear in front 11 so will it also be a reason for spiral of death? And should i use erg mode or not for ramp test ftp test?

[@thewattlife]

Yes use erg mode for ramp FTP test but your cadence has to stay high, if you drop below 65 RPM you will get in trouble. Try to aim for at least 80+ In real life your FTP test stops when your cadence drops too low anyway.

[@morten9972]

I did a ramp test and got 311w.Did a iTT and got 311w for 21 min 😀

[@thewattlife]

Perfect!! I think I’m capable of doing it, just need to not be exhausted from life beforehand. But all the same- it’s only a bit of fun and I just love getting on the bike

[@mondoabz]

It’s just like a car MOT. It’s only as good as you are on the day you did the test.

[@werdsmyth]

...and when you've already got decades of cycling in your legs, just go do a Club 10mile TT. And then have a little cry in the car park afterwards.

[@thewattlife]

Crying is the biggest part of my training plan

[@jerrylabat550]

I was disappointed, I was expecting you to do the 20 minute one, and do an all out 1 hour one to see what your real FTP is. I use Rouvy, pick a pan flat ride that I know I can't complete in an hour and go as hard as I can for an hour. It is surprising how much lower the real hour of riding is versus a 20 minute or ramp test.

[@thewattlife]

Doing the Zwift 20 min FTP test today, so will be able to see ow close that is to my Zwift ramp test and also compare it to my estimated FTP on Zwift Power

[@sirbrochill7757]

ftp could be accurate for you 162 isnt that high right? Shouldn't it be at 180 at 20 min?

[@thewattlife]

Do you mean my Heart Rate? I have a HR Max of about 175-176. Theres some HR drift but for a tempo session it shouldnt be close to Max, so in the 160's is good, i imagine mid 160's would be my functional HR. HR is very personal and depends on lots of different things, like age, weight, height etc

[@sirbrochill7757]

@@thewattlife yes sorry. okay so for ftp it should be at functional hr. How many times you zwift per week? im trying to get to 300 ftp within a year from 200 ftp

[@thewattlife]

I started at an FTP of around 250 and am getting close to 300, its taken me the best part of 7-8 months. At the moment im trying to ride most days but the volume has come down a bit now that we're out of season in the UK and im not doing nay big outdoor rides with all the rain

[@sirbrochill7757]

@@thewattlife ok got it. Maybe 275 as an upper bound makes more sense for a full hear of dedicated training. thanks mate

[@thewattlife]

Aim big dude- nothings stopping you. Just get a plan and ride your damn bike a lot

[@sirbrochill7757]

still good effort imo

[@thewattlife]

Thank you. I might actually give this another go but ever so slightly lower on the target watts

[@cokebottles6919]

I find I get a higher FTP with 20 min tests... but I'm not a very punchy rider.

[@thewattlife]

I need to get to this level when my FTP is the same on 20 min and step test

[@iancarson8614]

you are really missing the point of what ftp actually is. it's the maximum sustainable aerobic effort which you can hold for somewhere from 35 to 60 mins. it should be with controllable breathing, not panting. its hard but doable and requires good fuelling as it will use a lot of carbs, generate a lot of lactate which you should be using as fuel. its not really accurate to check this with a ramp or 20 min test as these are generic guesses. ask yourself how much power you can hold in steady effort for 35 to 40 mins without killing yourself. test that. that's your ftp. use that. it may be lower than you would like, but training could become more productive. you may not ever ride at ftp for 40 mins, but ftp correlates with performance across many durations.

[@thewattlife]

Yup- but this wasn’t an FTP test or was more to highlight that a Zwift ftp ramp test provides a slightly ‘higher than actual’ FTP number. Also demonstrating how tough it is to ride at that point using ERG mode rather than free riding. I’ll be doing a 20 FTP TEST in the next week or so

[@mondoabz]

Your excuse for being in ERG mode isn’t valid. Just put your trainer difficulty to zero and it flattens all courses.

[@thewattlife]

It “flattens the course” but doesn’t readjust watts. I’m doing a Zwift 20 min test in 2 weeks

[@mondoabz]

@@thewattlife which is what you want for a solid 20 minute block. Like what people used to do before zwift. Find your cadence and adjust your gears to what you want your wattage to be.