How exactly does time travel work in the MCU?

This video looks at the rules for time travel, branching, incursion, closed loops and absolute points.
#mcu #timetravel #marvel #incursions
00:00 - Intro
00:22 - The Red Skull delimma
01:10 - Smart Hulk's timeline rules
02:35 - Mutlple branches created in Endgame
03:39 - Red Skull delimma solved
04:41 - Steve Rogers's Peggy branch
05:56 - Agent's of Shields timeline explanation
07:21 - The Ancient One's branching rules
09:54 - No Way Home's many branches
12:45 - Nexus Events and the Sacred Timeline
15:30 - Timelines created by single choices
16:57 - How do incursions occur
18:28 - The vulture incurion
19:44 - Closed Loop Time Travel
23:00 - Absolute Points in Time
24:55 - Conclusion

[@jonmoreno7780]

This is the best explanation to MCU time travel that I've seen. And it all makes sense. This made me think of the theory that Marvel TV existed in one of these strands of the Sacred Timeline or as one of the significant branches following Loki

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great observation! Yes, completely agree. If pre-Disney+ shows are not considered 616 canon, which seems more likely by the day, then they could still be part of the strands of the Sacred Timeline. I think that makes perfect sense and keeps them as very important parts of the overall MCU. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@Limit02]

I more or less got how time travel worked in endgame and just assumed that Cap probably decided to return to his og timeline eventually (possibly after Peggy passes) but the intertwined rope explanation makes a lot of sense and is something I never thought as a way for Andrew and Tobey’s universes to exist!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I love the thought that the Andrew and Tobey universe could have always existed as strands with the sacred timeline.

[@thefoeofdrip1184]

@@AbitofEverything4U I don't think both the Raimiverse and the Webbverse are branch universes because Tobey and Andrew would've looked exactly like Tom Holland if that was the case. Edit: However, even if both the Raimiverse and Webbverse aren't branch timelines or universes, I do believe those universes can have branches of their own as what theoretically happened in No Way Home, when the villains returned home.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@thefoeofdrip1184 Good point. If they are branches, it would be from much earlier in the timeline, thus resulting in the variations in how they look. It's similar to how several of the Loki variants in his series looked very different, even with one being an alligator in an MVP staring role (love Alligator Loki!). I do suspect all universes started from a single point, but the branches happened at various different times over the years. Just my guess, though. Maybe we'll get a firm answer at some point.

[@thefoeofdrip1184]

@@AbitofEverything4U I respect your thoughts about this whole thing but btw, there's a couple errors you made about the Raimiverse timeline. So Spider-Man 3 supposedly takes place a year (2005) after Spider-Man 2 according to a sign for an award ceremony. Peter-Two was born in 1984 and the screenwriters of No Way Home said that he was 43 years old in No Way Home so if you do the math, he was actually transported to the MCU when the year in the Raimiverse was 2027.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@thefoeofdrip1184 Great clarifications. I should have specified that I was showing the dates that the movies came out rather then where they happened in the actual Raimi timeline. But I see the issue I created by using the MCU year of 2024 for No Way Home. Ugh. I should have used the Raimi years in all cases for that example. And you listed them all perfectly in your comment, so I should have used those. Thanks so much for watching and for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

[@jpyanity443]

To me, Endgame did imply that the quantum realm allows people to travel between timelines. Whenever we see them traveling, the quantum realm looks like an anthill with multiple branching paths and the travelers each go down a different path. I took that as a physical representation of the multiverse with each path being a branching timeline. And so if they were able to travel between the branches, they would be traveling to different timelines.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Nice! That's a really cool observation. I really do like that the time travel rules seem to be pretty consistent and that's not easy when dealing with complex topics like time travel, closed loops, absolute points in time, the multiverse, etc. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@NimN0ms]

The crazy thing is they can "fix" the inconsistencies with future projects like Loki S02 OR make it worse by, as you mentioned, a significant lack of communication between project heads. Right now (september 2022) it seems there 2 possible ways to travel through time - brancing and looping, but there are 3 ways to travel the multiverse - dreamwalking, whatever America Chavez does, and adverse effect of spells. Loki is the only show that does both time and multiverse travel. I won't be surprised if they explain it all more in S02.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very well summarized. You said it perfectly. Crossing my fingers that they stick to the rules they have or if they deviate from them, then they at least explain why. Ms. Marvel kinda got snuck in there, but does seem to work and I do credit the writers for researching Endgame and Loki before writing that closed loop plot. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

[@quintessences]

I seriously am in love with your videos. You’re one of my favorite low key content creator. Your videos are so intelligently put together and are always insightful

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it!

[@HarnaiDigital]

Why does this have 4 thousand views? This is by far the best explanation of MCU Timeline. I was understood everything after Endgame but then everything got messed up after Loki. once I watched Loki several times I got it. But Dr Strange 2 kinda messes it up a bit. You explained this so Phenomenally.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks for the positive feedback. I was in a similar situation that I was getting confused by the different rules and the only way I could get it all down was to lay it out like I did in the video. Then it really clicked for me. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@murdoxxed]

I think the explanation for Ms. Marvel was that Kamala traveling back in time was literally part of the timeline. Even though it seemed like she was traveling back in time, her magic made it so that the time travel was something that always happened in the timeline, so like you said, it was inevitable.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I really think that's the key. It was magic that created that closed loop time travel, so it doesn't actually break the Endgame time travel rules. I think you are 100% correct. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

[@kkplaysgd]

My headcanon is that Ms. Marvel traveled to the past of another Kamala, and then she made the "trail of stars" for the grandmother of that alternate Kamala. And the same thing happened to the main Kamala. And for Dr. Strange in What If, he reversed time back with the stone, like rewinding a VHS tape. So when he tried to rewrite a new future, he wouldn't become a Sorcerer, creating a paradox and destroying their reality.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I've heard that theory on Kamala as well. That is an interesting solution to still make it a closed loop but also make it a loop she didn't directly close herself, but closed it in tandem with another Kamala. Pretty wild. And I completely agree with your summary of the What If episode. Sorry if I didn't explain it that way, as that is what I was intending to say. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@jakelich1324]

In AOS i think there are actually 4 or 5 separate timelines. If I remember correctly, they are able to break a loop in the original timeline which saw the world destroyed by Daisy, but that world destroyed by Daisy still existed then they traveled back in time creating a new universe/timeline that was free of the loop in which the Chronicoms world was destroyed and they needed to find a new home. In this timeline because Fitz returned from the Daisy world ending timeline and he is still alive in the tube floating in space and this creates a new universe as both Fitzs are alive until the Fitz from Daisys world is killed. Then this becomes the primary timeline and they find Fitz and then him and Jemma time travel to the future to live out their entire lives, then they travel back in time creating a new universe where they save their friends and bring them back in time to a new universe because the Chronicoms are hunting down the time stream. They have to use the new timeline that Jemma is in to connect back to the 2nd timeline where Fitz travels back to save their friends but this time he travles to the other universe and brings everyone back to help set up the time loop that traps everyone in a new timeline completely free of the Chronicoms. Also it makes sense that time travel has been around for every movie including the X-Men ones and that their are multiple ways to time travel and the only time the TVA gets involved is if it leads to the destruction of the universe in which their Kang came from. They do not care how people time travel or where they travel to just that at the end of that timeline they are in Kang becomes conqueror like you said. Basically what all this means is that the Chronicoms had a fixed time loop that Fitz broke and had to create his own time loop. So the Ms Marvel time loop had to have been created by someone in the future for some reason. We are seeing it for the first time but she is not experiencing it for the first time even tho it will always be a new experience to her when it happens because someone else is forcing her through the time stream using the bangle. she is not the one who created the time loop just as Fitz was stuck in his time loop set by the Chronicoms until he gained access of the time stream and was able to create his own time loop where the Chronicoms were dsetroyed.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow...that was great! Yes, I really do think there is a way to make it all work. Throw in that the Time Di'Alla was used for some of the time travel, which was a mystical (perhaps magical) device, and it could really make things wonky. But I love your explanation. I always thought there had to be several branches being created. Thanks so much for laying that out so well!

[@Andrea-go5xe]

I'm honestly so happy with this explaination. Both because I dislike the theory of Steve existing all this time in his own timeline and because it explains the TVA better. Steve showing up in his own timeline would as you said, have changed the timeline already. It just never made sense to me. It still doesn't explain how he didn't create an incursion with staying with Peggy for who knows how many decades, but I'm willing to accept that maybe he didn't influence the timeline too much. Or maybe I missed the explanation. I agree that Marvel didn't explain it very well and one has to think through several hopps to make it make sense. This is why as a general rule I really dislike time travel. That and the thing that happened with Gamora, brining back characters that already died. I don't know, I just really hope they don't keep brining in characters that have died from other timelines, for me it would greatly cheapen the impact their death had. That said I'll be heading to the cinema to watch Ant Man Quantamania in half an hour, I'm very excited to see what they'll do with him in the movie and how time travel plays into the plot.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, this video helped me wrap my head around time travel and alternate timelines alot better. I just can't imagine Steve going back into the main timeline. I think he created a branched timeline and then it avoided an incursion due to being a branch, since I think it only creates an incursion if you jump into a different universe altogether (such as Dr. Strange going to 838). I do hope they explain more about Captain America's fate when we get the timeline book later this year. Would be nice to have it all laid out. So yeah, I agree with you that time travel is confusing, so Marvel really needs to lay out the rules clearly and then try to stick to them as much as possible. Also, I agree with you about death not having meaning if they aren't careful, such as with Gamora. Hope you enjoyed Quantumania. Definitely looking forward to see it on Friday! Thanks for all your great comments. Really appreciate it!

[@Joesith_]

I actually love your videos man, it’s impressive how entertaining you can be without flashy fast paced editing and just your words and appropriate pictures and text on screen. I always have youtube on in the background and this is perfect

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! Yeah, I sometimes get distracted by videos that have alot of random footage from movies or shows running that doesn't really tie to what is being said, but are just there because they want something happening. So I go abit more low key. That said, I suspect some people like more fancy editing, so there are some advantages to it as well. Anyway, thanks for watching and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!

[@earthboundman5]

Just wanted to say that your videos are incredibly high quality and I appreciate the work you put into them!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks...I really appreciate the positive feedback. Thanks so much for watching!

[@cupckaer9374]

Can't wait for more time travel stuff in the MCU, I honestly think that Reed richards gonna be a big part of explaining it, I just hope they don't start to add a lot of new rules to it.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agreed. The current rules make sense and have been applied pretty consistently. I hope they don't lose sight of that and that they keep things manageable or it could quickly get out of control. But yeah, I'm really excited for Kang wreaking havok on the MCU. Bring it on!

[@yudhazacharias9377]

@@AbitofEverything4U if you travel to 2012, you create a branch, that point in time, 2012, is a branch forever, so if you use the same coordinates (2012), you'll arrive in that branch. There is no visiting OG 2012 anymore, there is only the 2012 branch that you created that you can visit

[@yudhazacharias9377]

@@AbitofEverything4U 7:41 the stones are vital, that's why they can't be removed. 2014 Thanos is vital too, him dying in 2023 would create a branch in 2014, a timeline where Thanos is gone, Infinity War won't happen there

[@yudhazacharias9377]

@@AbitofEverything4U 8:12 not just when the stone is removed, but also when someone important is removed

[@yudhazacharias9377]

@@AbitofEverything4U 20:32 It would actually be fine if Kamala ignored her little grandma, if she had ignored her, that point in time would have branched off, while Kamala's home timeline would be fine, remember, Back to the Future is bullcrap

[@captainjakemerica4579]

Gosh I am so glad for the absolute point explanation for all those post endgame thinking that it was stupid that Tony Stark died and couldn't come back I know like the lead them to that point that his death is an absolute point and that episode is all the explanation you need on why you don't tamper with absolute points

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I think the absolute point concept is fascinating and I agree...it's ain't wise to tamper with an absolute point in time!

[@TheHelderVinicius]

thank you for being the only channel that i know that is creating this type of content!! I hope your channel grows with time!!!!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I love doing these videos and am always happy to hear someone enjoyed them. Thanks for watching!

[@Merione]

If this explanation is true (and I believe it is, it's the only one that I've seen so far that fully takes into account all the elements from the different movies and shows and makes them coexist, somehow), then I think that one inference that we can safely make about the future of the MCU is that Kamala Khan is "destined" to have a pivotal role in saving the universe at the end of this saga, maybe in Kang Dynasty or in Secret Wars. That's because if it's true, as you say, that her closed loop is something that MUST have happened (as in Harry Potter Prisoner of Azkaban, don't know if you've read that book or watched that movie), then I think it's logical to ask why. Why did it NEED to happen? Just to allow Kamala to discover her origin and explain where her powers came from? Just to satisfy her curiosity? Or maybe because, without Kamala knowing about her past and influencing her future, something would happen that could destroy the universe as we know it? It will be fun to look back to all of this in a couple of years, when we'll know more about her journey and character arc.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow, great observation! Yes, I loved Harry Potter Prisoner of Azkaban and that is a great reference to just how important Kamala will likely turn out to be. There must be a reason for it as we've never seen a closed loop in the MCU and I suspect won't see it much, if ever, again. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theory. I think you are spot on!

[@captainramsey6121]

@@AbitofEverything4U And to add to your commentary remember how He Who Remains (Kang Variant) had a multiversal war but he ended it think about this ;New Line Cinema -Blade , 20th Century Fox - X-men/ Fantastic 4, Daredevil, Sony Pictures Spider-Man/ Ghost Rider and Hulk Variants from Universal Studios all timelines defunct because of the multiversal war, now active again thanx to Loki/Slyvie , Peter, Strange and Wanda contributing to the branches and of course The Avengers had a hand in it. Just something to ponder. 😉

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@captainramsey6121 Right! That's what makes Secret Wars so enticing. Imagine all of the possibilities for who can appear in that movie. It is going to be bonkers!

[@captainramsey6121]

@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely!

[@Squabbles64]

The way I think of it is almost like the inverse of the endgame quote dealing with Back to the Future time travel rules. You can’t go to the past and change something and come back to your own present(before leaving) being different. But in Kamala’s case, she was already a part of her own past but didn’t know it. Without her going back in time she wouldn’t exist at all. It’s like the grandfather paradox: by not going back she’s essentially killing her grandmother and thus not letting herself be born. The only hitch is that even if she wasn’t born that doesn’t mean she couldn’t go back and save her(i.e. how in the grandfather paradox you killing your grandfather means you can’t go kill your grandfather if that makes sense). Just some thoughts I had about this.

[@shanukarmakar7337]

This has to be the best explained video on time travel rules in MCU..much better than what new rockstar and screencrush channel explains..

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback on it!

[@realjohnlove]

14:02 I think something to note is the branches allowed travel between universes as well. Which was another reason why the TVA was pruning timeline to prevent Kang’s from finding the isolated timeline. This parts theory: A branched timeline creates a new reality where He Who Remains variant would try to prune timelines which would more than likely create a paradox or incursion.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Interesting theories. Branching could very well open up travel between universes. But I also like your other theory that as long as HWR was alive, the boundaries between universes was stronger and thus traveling between universes didn't happen as much, if at all. But when HWR died, it weakened those boundaries and created the potential for the incursions. Hope we get more answers in Loki S2!

[@Squabbles64]

I’d love to get your take on the Agents of Shield season 5 and Runaways season 3 time travel. I up until watching this video thought that Aos S5 time travel was making a branch but now considering that it didn’t use the quantum realm I’m wondering if it’s some sort of self contained branch or something. I also couldn’t bare to watch Runaways again to try and figure out how that show worked so I would appreciate someone else figuring that one out for me lol. This is for sure the most comprehensive MCU time travel video that I’ve seen and will be using this to help explain to others what I’m rambling on about when I talk to them. Thanks for the great video👍🏻

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks for the feedback on the video. I definitely enjoyed making it. What is interesting about AoS is that their time travel is via the Time Di'Alla in S5, so it is a funky way to do time travel and I agree, it may well have been a self contained branch. In S7 they do end up using the quantum realm to get back to their main timeline. So, I do appreciate that AoS S7 built upon the Endgame rules, even they used a different means of time travel in S5 before they knew the Endgame rules. As for Runaways, that just makes my head hurt. I would prefer to just ignore that final episode of the last season, because otherwise I think the rest of the seasons and episodes are fine. Just my take though. I don't know if we'll ever get a firm answer on Runaways. I did note, however, that Nico was going to show up in Spiderman: Freshman Year and that is a multiverse story. So maybe they will pull the Runaways into that universe?

[@user-iu9xx8yk5i]

One of the reasons I never loved Endgame was because I always thought the way time travel worked broke the rules of the explanation they gave. Now 3.5 years later I finally understand how time travel works in that movie so thanks lol. Still I think it’s kinda ridiculous that they didn’t feel it was necessary to properly explain how it works in the movie, but this video definitely makes me enjoy it a little more

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow, you summarized my exact feelings about the movie. I enjoyed it, but things always nagged at me. After chatting with a viewer of my earlier video about time travel, it was a total ah hah moment and I couldn't stop thinking about it until it put the video together. And now I appreciate the movie so much more, even though I agree, I wish they had tied it together abit more. I suspect the disagreement between the writers and directors on how the branching works is what left things so open ended. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@captainjakemerica4579]

Avengers Endgame is an amazing movie but definitely need a few watches to fully understand the time travel

[@billyiswaiting]

It’s so fun to watch the Ms. Marvel bit of this video after the most recent episode of Loki (2.4)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ikr? I really do think that Ms. Marvel's bangle's are going to be tied to Kang tech somehow. And to see the closed loops in Loki coming into play is wild!

[@M3333]

Wow, so glad the algorithm brought me this gem of a channel. Keep it up!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for watching and for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it!

[@prof.evilpictures8696]

We saw the 2012 branch get pruned by the TVA so we can probably assume they did the same to the 2013 and 2014 branches.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, good point. Although that raises a question...did they prune a branch or a branch of a branch. The Avengers created a branch by going back to 2012 but did Loki create a branch off a branch when he teleported out of there? If it was a second branch, then the TVA might have only clipped that branch and not the original one. But either way, I tend to think the TVA cleaned it all up when the time heist was over and the stones were returned. Cool to theorize, huh? Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

[@icedog1588]

At 23:51 "even in a branch" the way I understood it was that Strange Supreme was using the timestone and magic to go back and change his past, Back to the Future style, which is why an absolute point was introduced and why the universe imploded Seems the Timestone bypasses the rules

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, good point...changing the absolute point sorta worked. He brought Christine back, but it then destroyed his reality. So I think the rule is that if you do manage to alter an absolute point (which Strange did by using very dark magic) then you end up destroying your reality. So in a way, he didn't alter the absolute point since Christine then immediately started to vanish, along with reality. Pretty crazy! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!

[@AxmPlays]

Yeah I think time stone is like an actual point in timeline So for example thanos reversing vision's death is part of the timeline

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@AxmPlays Interesting. Definitely makes sense.

[@thefoeofdrip1184]

@@AxmPlays I mean, Ravonna Renslayer did say back in Loki season 1 that what the Avengers did (the Time Heist in Endgame) was supposed to happen

[@AxmPlays]

@@thefoeofdrip1184 Yeah but the things inside the time heist weren't

[@stefan3597]

The fact that the sacred timeline contains multiple timelines/multiverses is very clear when you see that loki can have multiple variants that arent human form. If there is a timeline where all asgardians are born as animals, that timeline shouldve been pruned instantly when it was created. The fact it was able to exist proves that multiple timelines always existed. Same with sylvie, the fact she's able to exist and grow up proves how there must be a timeline where loki is born female. Or else sylvie wouldve been pruned the second she was born

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, very well said. The very existence of all of those Loki's is evidence that the sacred timeline has to have multiple strands. And so it was great to see Waldron confirming that as well in his quote. I really like how they have made everything fit together so well!

[@touroleite9920]

I’m so glad you made this video I’ve tried to explain this in comments on so many Endgame videos, great video and channel

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Really appreciate you watching!

[@realjohnlove]

23:30 Absolute points in time help give a universe explanation for Tony Stark dying when they could have gotten a younger variant through time travel or used the time stone to reverse the condition of his body.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Excellent point. Yeah, I do wonder how many other absolute points in time exist. Tony Stark's death is a great example!

[@TheRealRevelation]

MCU Vulture going into the Sony universe makes sense when you break it down (if the MCU and Sony are smart)… Vulture being there can cause an incursion with the MCU, forcing the MCU (616) to eliminate the Sony-verse (1610), which could lead to Miles Morales being stranded in the MCU (616). Well they can make it work like that to resemble what happened in the comics.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I like the way you think! Yes, Marvel, please create an incursion in the sony-verse and bring Miles over to 616. I love it!

[@Koduhhhh]

Ok, this was a great breakdown. By far the best explanation… and most coherent one I’ve heard yet! Well done.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I really enjoyed making the video as it also helped me get it all straight in my head....well, at least as straight as one can get a concept as wild as time travel. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@xxLAMBMANxx]

18:29 the vulture incursion is what I like to think Miguels Spider Society deals with as we see the DaVinci vulture in gwens universe start to cause problems and miguel goes to stop it so maybe they stopped MCU Vulture like how they stopped MCU Prowler

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I LOVE that theory. I really hope that's the direction they go. Fingers crossed!

[@ethantucker92838]

10:55 you know, something interesting about them being put back By my interpretation, they are taken from the moment they find out Peter is Spider-Man This implies when Norman is put back he is having Thanksgiving Dinner with the Parkers and suddenly there's a flash of light and now Norman is bloody, sweaty, has a stab wound, and is wearing an entirely different outfit Very interesting mental image

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL! Yeah, that does make sense that the villains returned to the point where they learned Peter was Spider-Man. I suspect that led to some interesting discussions during that Thanksgiving Dinner!

[@ricollomaxo1324]

Your videos are great. Keep up the good work!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback. Thanks so much for watching!

[@Kompatainment]

Great video!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for watching and for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it!

[@ddoubledee7326]

I actually don't think that Ms. Marvel had a closed loop and that she may or may not have created a branch. Nani (Kamala's granny) shows Kamala a picture of herself with her father and mentions how it is the only picture her father had of her as a baby and she also has a painting of her mum that she made from memory (she implies that what she remembers of her may not be very accurate), yet when Kamala travels to the past she's given a family photo by Aisha (Nani's mum) that she then hands to Nani when she returns to the present time and Nani is delighted to see not just another baby picture of her but also one that has her mum in it. If it were really a closed loop then Nani would've not only known exactly what her mother looked like but also would've had a picture of her. And speaking of her not remembering exactly what her mother looked like, her painting of her mum is still pretty spot on despite being from early childhood memory and she also remembers how it was some stars that had reunited her with her father at the train station, if it were really a closed loop then she could've also remembered seeing kamala and climbing up her magical platforms, but she doesn't. So I think that in the original timeline, what happened was that Nani just cried until her bangle did the whole starry thing, but then when kamala travels to the past she doesn't cause any considerable diversion from how things originally played out, she meets a dying Aisha who takes her last breath in front so her life isn't affected, then she tries helping Nani and mentions "I can't do stars, best I can do is circles" (or something to that extent) but ultimately her help doesn't really have any impact as her bangles doing the starry thing is what eventually causes her to be found. I feel like if they wanted to really make a closed loop then they should've had Aisha hand Kamala the same father-daughter picture that Nani had in the present and then gotten Kamala to give it to Nani in the past before returning to the present. honestly, in reality I feel like the real explanation is that with the sheer amount of shows and movies being pumped there hasn't been any coherence or cooperation between writers/producers/directors of said shows and movies and they all end up with different ideas of it all. Is it the presence of infinity stones that keeps the flow of time intact? Is it smallest choices that create branches? Is the multiverse different timelines or different universes? are they different realities altogether? maybe there's levels of timelines within timelines and some levels are the so-called multiverse whilst the lower levels are so-called timeline branches? but then how is the watcher seeing it from a crystal hallway pov and not as lines diverging and stuff? No one knows until marvel does some retroactive patch-up work to jankily work in an ultimate explanation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@AbitofEverything4U]

The last things you said are unfortunately probably the real issue. While the MCU has been amazingly coherent over the years considering all the interwoven storylines, I do think in Phase 4 the sheer volume of content has made it harder to keep the story together. That said, the fact that the creator of Ms. Marvel said she watched Loki and was genuinely trying to adhere to the rules of that show, then I think she sincerely believes that the solution is the closed loop theory. You give some very valid reasons why it might not be a simple as the creator stated, but I still think that if you go in the past, it has to create an immediate branch and thus Kamala couldn't have gone to her own past, but rather went to a branch...at least that had to be the case unless it was truly a closed loop. I will also throw out that the bangles are magic and so perhaps that comes into play as well. It might be the only reason the closed loop scenario was even possible. I'd like that alot, because I'm not a big fan of closed loop storylines and so if this was truly a one-off due to the bangle, that makes some sense, too. Anyway, fun to theorize. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@AndrewDukes]

This video is a really great explanation I couldn’t have explained it better myself

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! Had alot of fun putting that video together. Appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!

[@sageturmelle]

I've got so many theories for what might happen in Kang Dynasty and fingers crossed I get them right, but anyways here goes: America Chavez, Wong, and Doctor Strange encountering Immortus in Greece (Assuming Immortus is confirmed to be Greek. His name alone certainly gives off the impression that he is.) Katy, Blade, and Black Knight meeting Victor Timely in England (Yeah I know his design is more reminiscent of Theodore Roosevelt but he strikes me as wearing something you'd except somebody in England to wear) As for Scarlet Centurion, no clue but it's likely that he'll probably go to South America where Druig is at which point he'll recruit Namor and possibly Shuri to deal with the Scarlet Centurion. If he knows about Wakanda that is. Let alone if Namor exists too.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Love those theories! It's so much fun to try to guess the direction for the MCU and the multiverse opens up so many new possibilities. Thanks for sharing your guesses as to where things are going!

[@channierichardson8440]

Yeah you're right endgame really didn't explain it clearly but Scott Lang did say we can use the quantum realm to travel between timelines

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ah, that's great if Lang said that. I need to watch that scene again. But yeah, I wish they had explained it a little better. Still, it is great how everything has worked out so well. Hoping they keep the rules together and don't make it even more confusing down the road. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@channierichardson8440]

@@AbitofEverything4U love this channel thanks for responding

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@channierichardson8440 My pleasure!

[@resurgemas]

Wouldn’t the little glob of venom symbiote also cause an incursion since it came from another universe and it stayed?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Interesting point! Maybe that's actually going to feed into the Secret Wars incursions. You may have really landed on something there!

[@dubblea6564]

ive always wondered if the main 616 timeline is just a branch of a preexisting timeline of some kind and it was never the original timeline in the first place

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, that's a very good point. Keeping in mind that the "sacred timeline" was really just the timeline that created He Who Remains, then it could be it was a branch off a pre-existing timeline. As they always say, history is written by the victors. So He Who Remains is of course going to dub his timeline as "sacred". Wild, huh? Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@dubblea6564]

​@@AbitofEverything4U My way out there theory to try and explain away perhaps why there aint a fantastic 4 or x men yet in the sacred timeline in universe is that any mutant or fantastic 4 related character was pruned by he who remain's tva to prevent a version of kang from coming out assuming that nathanial richards is a descendant of reed richards, get rid of reed and u wont get a nathaniel down the line. Maybe the preexisting timeline was like a very comic booky timeline where every marvel property was together.

[@captainjakemerica4579]

So glad someone is agreeing with me and the Russo Brothers that Captain America lived out his life with Peggy in an alternate timeline never bought the writers explanation

[@AbitofEverything4U]

IKR? Makes no sense that it wasn't a branched timeline. Only way it works!

[@captainjakemerica4579]

@@AbitofEverything4U Yes idk what the writers were thinking

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@captainjakemerica4579 Yep!

[@eduardooneal]

I really really hope between now and avengers kang dynasty we get this fully explained and laid out, i think the best contender for explanation is Loki S2 and F4

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes times a thousand. I think they need to do more to explain things. I appreciate the quotes from the creative teams as it definitely helps, but I think they could really do alot to flesh things out in Loki S2 in particular. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@realjohnlove]

5:00 Completely agree

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Amen!

[@maksmallyhocevar1815]

I think that it's a different Vulture in Morbius because it's a completely different universe and he's just a variant. Otherwise you really have almost the best MCU content on youtube

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Fascinating. Okay, you have me intrigued, because I would love for that to be true. What makes you think Vulture's a variant. Like you mean he's always been in the Morbius universe? The reason I doubt that is this is how the first end credit scene goes down: It starts with the sky fracturing, similar to what was seen in Spider-Man: No Way Home. Michael Keaton's Adrian Toomes, AKA Vulture, then appears in a jail cell. "Hope the food's better in this joint," he comments. The multiverse has, it seems, truly broken. A news bulletin then reveals that Toomes, who has no reason to be in prison and seemingly appeared out of nowhere, is awaiting a hearing and will probably be released immediately. I'm not sure what that first end credit scene would be about, if it wasn't the 616 Vulture being pulled into the Morbius universe by the spell from No Way Home. So let me know what you are thinking because I would love for you to be right. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and for your kind words about the videos. I truly appreciate it!

[@maksmallyhocevar1815]

​@@AbitofEverything4U It is afterall still possible that there is another Vulture in the Morbius universe, maybe even another Spider-man. Edit: actually nevermind I just realized I've never seen the first Morbius post credit scene, sorry. For anyone still reading this, I would like to point out that there is an important distinction between travel between different universes and in time. Time travel was very well explained in the video, but I think Vulture doesn't travel in time and multiverse travel doesn't cause any branches, so what Sony did with Morbius universe is completely fine I think.

[@mexi_gamer768]

Great video I learned a lot about the MCU rn I’m mind blown

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I really appreciate you watching!

[@realjohnlove]

14:45 I think the Sacred Timeline was more like a closed loop. So Tobey, Andrew, 838, What If timelines always existed but the sacred timeline had no branches to allow travel to the universe. Until Sylvie killed Kang, this allowed travel to the MCU-616 as to our knowledge there were no multiversal visitors.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right...I agree...I think the Tobey/Andrew/838/What If timelines existed while HWR was in control, but when he died, it fractured the boundaries between universes and the nexus events started to go crazy. I just think it's cool to imagine those universe were always there, vs. being created as a biproduct of HWR dying.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U Yes I don’t think they were created at all. I also believe the infinite Kangs always existed as well He Who Remains explains like him other variants were discovering other versions of themselves. Implying those versions always existed. I think its similar to like a telephone line, only certain lines can connect to certain networks & if not if you wanna hope from universe ___ to ___ you may have to piggyback from another branch to that branch.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right! I totally agree. Really hoping Loki S2 continues to unpack it all for us.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U Loki S2 timeline placement will be interesting. Loki Season 1 did a good job not mentioning anything after the Endgame Time Heist. Not 2014 Thanos getting blipped, not the events of Far From Home, Wandavision or Falcon & the Winter Soldier. So its possible Loki S2 could pull a GOTG & only be based shortly after S1 or we may see some time jump thats 2 years later who knows. Because the TVA is outside of time it could be minutes after or years. I think a lot of ppl have the theory that the TVA exist in the Quantum Realm. This may not get confirmed until Quantumania. I expect that to be revealed. We may see Renslayer again in Antman 3 too.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, those are some great theories on the S2 placement. Really excited for it to come out!

[@realjohnlove]

21:35 we technically saw time loops in the first Doctor Strange so assumed Ms. Marvel worked the same. But the Sacred Timeline is no longer a factor by Ms. Marvel.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

True...there were indeed time loops in the first Dr. Strange. That said, those time loops were via the time stone, which likely does have the power to really mess with time in massive ways. So those situations were different in a way from what Ms. Marvel did. But your point is still very valid. Great observation!

[@nathanthompson6720]

Can you explain old Steve Rogers carrying Peggy's casket in civil war

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great question...so I've never thought that was old Steve carrying Peggy's casket. That was a rumor started by Marcus and McFeely, who wrote the Captain America movies. Granted, I would normally trust them since they wrote the movie and thus would be the experts on that funeral scene. But they also wrote Endgame yet disagree completely with the directors (the Russos) on how Steve's time travel worked. Marcus and McFeely feel Cap returned to the main timeline and the Russos feel he made a branch to visit Peggy. Hopefully Marvel will one day answer this giant question. Fingers crossed. But for now, my money is on Cap creating a branch, since all of the other time travel in the movie created a branch. I mean, we got alternate versions of Thanos, Nebula, Gamora, etc created via their time travel, so it seems they had to be creating a branch.

[@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu]

When they anounced the proyect based on time travel and multiverse I was looking foward to them, but they didn't explain none of it well, we still don't have a clear distinction between Universe and Dimension (or reality I guess), we know both of them exist and are a thing but we don't have a clear idea of why sometimes they mention dimensions and other times universes. The same for Timeline and univers, like we know that a branch timeline is tecnically a universe, but a universe doesn't necesarily needs to be a branch timeline (we saw places like the Dark Dimension where time doesn't flow so what's the point of a timeline there?) but the proyects tend to use both terms as if they are the exactly same. About: "Agent's of Shields timeline explanation" I believe they mention that the quantum bands were the ones that made the team able to find the way and come back to 616 to the platform (like a GPS or something), so I don't get how Steve or the Agents could comeback, Steve didn't get to it from the platform so I guess he jumped randomly or maybe the Tony from that branch helped him find his way with the quantum band, I don't know. "The Ancient One's branching rules" The problem witgh returning them to the point they took them is that we know by the existence of time travel and what we see in Loki, that past, present and future are happening in paralel (the future already exist I mean), so for example when Nebula and Rhodey are taking the power stone, the Avengers are also fighting Thanos in the future and also the battle already ended and Steve should be traveling to put the stone in place so techniacally with Nebula and Rhodey, Steve from the farther future should be there already with the stone to return it in the exact moment to not create the branch, but we obviously didn't see that because it will spoil the end of the movie, but at least to me fractures what is told to us. "No Way Home's many branches" A good explanation of what happened in NWH, and what of my problems with Peter being stubborn with the idea of saving the villains just because is what May asked, by the logic of variants there could already be timeline branches where everything ended good for them without Peter doing something. Peter showed why he is a hero but also why is stupid "Closed Loop Time Travel" For Ms Marvel I prefer to believe that as seeing in Loki before the Sacred Timeline began to masively branch, the timeline was a circle, meaning there was no end or beginning, the history of the universe was constantly reapeating in continuous iterations. Maybe in the sacred timeline someone else helped Khamala's grandmother and hence Khamala wasn't born thanks to Khamala, but now that there is rrom for free will different things happen and that is why Khamala ends helping her grandmother. If I have a problem with that episode is that the only thing we didn't know that they told us was that Aisha was dead and that could literally be told by Najma, the time travel episode served no purpose for the plot. "Absolute Points in Time" I honestly want to believe that the APIT was created because Strange wanted to apply the back to the future rules, changing the past changing your timeline with the help of the time stone instead of just creating a branch, otherwise this rule creates a conflict with the "free will" and nexus event logic, cause it feels so random that some events must happen despite the fact that we know for example that Cristine can be alive in other universes. Finally incursions Technically we already saw another case of lack of communication, because in the last episode of What If The Watcher send Natasha from the universe where Ultron won to the one where Loki won which should create an incursion, and in theory someone like the watcher should know that. maybe in What If S2 they acknowledge that and say it was a mistake to send her there but will see.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow...definitely the most thorough comment I've seen on any video. I mean wow! Dimensions: Yes, I really do get confused that they use the term dimension and universe way too interchangeably. I think that for dimensions, there is only one across all universes, like the Dark Dimension, but I'm not sure they are even consistent on that either. Old Cap and AoS: I am beginning to wonder if it wasn't necessary for Old Cap to use the time machine to get back. Maybe they are able to trace a quantum particle trail and find their home timeline. Or perhaps a person is in tune with their home timeline and can find it that way. It just seems like they decided returning home doesn't require anything special like the time machine, although it is the easiest means to return. Just a guess. Returning the Stones: They sooooo need to do a one shot that shows Steve returning the stones. I do suspect he went to a point in time a few seconds after the Time Heist Avengers left so there was a moment in time the stones were really gone, but it wasn't substantial. But until they film that one-shot, we will forever be guessing. Closed Loop: I am beginning to wonder if what happened wasn't so much that Kamala went back in time, but that the past pulled her into it. And I wonder if the magic of the bangle is what allowed her to travel in a fashion outside of the quantum realm. The time stone, for instance, let Dr. Strange do some funky stuff like turn back time for just the apple in front of him. That was wild. Incursions: Yes a thousand times over regarding your comment! The Watcher plopping Natasha in that universe should create an incursion. Maybe (since we are making the rules up on the fly), if your universe is basically destroyed, as hers was, then you don't create an incursion by visiting another? Who knows. Anyway, great comments. I am still pretty impressed that Marvel's time travel rules have held up as well as they have, but any time you mess with time it gets wonky and you have pointed out some especially wonky issues. Nicely done as always!

[@kapitankapital6580]

I love the idea that "branches" are a bureaucratic concept created for the political purposes of an immensely powerful being. I was going to say that the whole thing makes more sense if you imagine the main timeline has a degree of flexibility, so that minor events can happen and it can overcome them, only major issues (especially those involving items of cosmic power like the infinity stones) cause branches. It's more like a stream than a piece of string, you can throw pebbles in it and it will keep flowing, you need to throw a major boulder to cause it to branch off. However if we combine the selective definition of what constitutes a "branch" with the work of the TVA, we basically get that effect while also having a good in-universe reason for why there is that degree of flexibility in what constitutes the timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow...I'm not going to add anything to that summary. That was brilliant. You said it much better than I did. Well met!

[@realjohnlove]

9:41 I think it should be noted that she turned down that theory and only gave up the time stone because he mentioned Doctor Strange. Then she understood Strange had a plan & thats what she trusted cause Bruce entire rebuttal was him theorizing & spitballing while not understanding fully how time travel worked.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Too funny! Yeah, I agree, Bruce seemed to have a good understanding of time travel in general (he understood altering your past doesn't change your future) but Bruce didn't seem to get the branching down completely. In fact, that's why I was so confused about Endgame when I first watched it, as I focused on Bruce thinking that taking the stones created a branch. He was correct about that, but what he didn't say was that just going back in time inherently created a branch. But it makes sense, because otherwise there is no way to guarantee that changes in the past don't alter your future. Wild stuff!

[@MCLegoboy]

I'm a bit late, but has anyone ever said to you that the villains from No Way Home are variants from the very beginning, and that they're all from separate universes? No Way Home is very enjoyable, but I just can't reconcile with how the characters act and look, and then on top of that, some of them even have memories that they shouldn't have. Norman Osborn acts as if he really has no control over the Green Goblin, which says to me that he's from before Thanksgiving from the 2002 movie. After the Unity Festival and the Goblin reveals himself to Norman, they start a relationship of working with one another. Norman has a new persona to loose his darker half on those that have wronged him when he would have just sulked beforehand, and he's still practicing how to switch between the two because he's trying to go back to Norman mode before dinner when riding up in the elevator, but when he sees the drop of blood in Peter's room, and then the cut on his arm, he's letting Goblin run things a bit and he has to leave, but both know what the other is doing. It's not as if Norman just disappears because when he agrees to attack Aunt May and later kidnap Mary Jane, Norman is just as present as the Goblin, he's fully aware of what he's doing. Go forward to No Way Home, and Norman is not only scared, he has no memories of anything he's done, yet he still knows about the Goblin, so that says to me that he comes over to the MCU some time between the Unity Festival and Thanksgiving. However, we run into a problem, and that's the spell that goes wrong; he has to know that Spider-Man and Peter Parker are one in the same, so it has to be after Thanksgiving, and that's when Norman and Goblin are in a partnership. Doc Ock is not as big of an issue, although if you take his clothing and hair into account, that already debunks things since he's not aware of Peter until the very end of the 2004 movie. On top of that though, similar to Norman and Goblin, he's supposed to be in a partnership with his arms, his arms are not the ones that control his mind. They merely persuade him into doing nefarious acts, mainly in order to complete his work with the fusion reactor, and that would probably lead him down a road of more heinous acts and true villainy, but he dies. But the real damning evidence is that he knows that Norman is dead, which is no secret, but it's seemingly in compliance with what Sandman eventually says to him, and that it's presumably because Green Goblin and Norman were outed as being the same guy, except that was a secret held only between Peter and the Osborns' butler, Bernard, and then later Harry. So then Sandman, well, ignoring that he's mostly sand the whole time because they couldn't get Thomas Hayden Church to perform physically and just provide voicework (we could actually chalk up his appearance to further mutation that forces him to be incapable of resembling his old self), he's the one that provides such damning evidence that he's not from the 2007 movie. He says that Norman was stabbed by his own glider, it was in the newspapers. No it wasn't, or it was merely hearsay and speculation what with the coincidental events of Norman's death and the Green Goblin's absence. Did Spider-Man hold a press conference to say that Goblin died, and how? What evidence is there of this? Spider-Man would get accused of murder, and he's still wanted by the police anyway because he's not deputized, he's a vigilante in their eyes. Now he says that Otto Octavius drowns in the river, and that's not anything he couldn't know, but presumably he's been in prison most of this time, and so maybe through a TV or in a newspaper he was informed of this information, but is he the kind of guy to really care about what's going on out in the world? I don't know, still, he knows things he shouldn't, and then stuff he likely wouldn't care about either. Then you have Lizard, who could presumably actually be from The Amazing Spider-Man movies, his appearance is different, but I suspect that he was forcefully subjected to new lizard formula that mutated his form to be what it is in Now Way Home. It's possible that Dane Dahaan could have asked the man in the hat to do such a thing for him in the hopes to make a Sinister Six team, even if Lizard was not teased in the credits of TASM2. I could go either way, but I think it's easier if he's just from another universe that's TASM but everything's all just shifted to the left by half an inch. And then there's Electro, who's only there because Jaime Foxx had a contract to be in another Spider-Man movie, and he could make the character more to his liking. I'd say that the aesthetics are what kills it, but that's actually not the problem, I could see a weird shift in energy allowing him to look way better than in TASM2, no, it's more the fact that he's supposedly the same guy, except then later in No Way Home, he still doesn't know who Spider-Man is. The whole premise of the botched spell is that those who know Peter Parker is Spider-Man get pulled into the MCU, except Electro never once learns who Spider-Man is in TASM2. There's not a single scene that shows him putting the pieces together, and he presumably dies, too (another conceit to the premise of the movie, though it's really more conjecture made by the characters than concrete proof as both Lizard and Sandman do not die in their respective movies), Max Dillon never learns who Spider-Man is, and then he's disappointed that Andrew Garfield isn't black. So I guess somewhere along the way, maybe he heard Gwen scream out Peter once, I don't know, but more often than not, when someone learns that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, they already know who Peter is, or they are shown an image, and so I guess Electro just never got the memo, whoch still doesn't explain why he's in the MCU. It couldn't have been from Dane Dehaan Goblin either because even he doesn't know until after Electro's death, he puts the pieces together when he sees how Spider-Man and Gwen are looking at each other. And then there's the other Spider-Men, but I feel like it's safe to assume that both Tobey and Andrew are the actual characters from the movies and not variants of those movie counterparts. There's also the whole Venom thing with the symbiotes having a multiversal hivemind (fine Sony, do what you must in order to feel relevant), but that's a load of crap and I hope that little goo scares the bartender, a fire starts, and it's trapped inside. There's also no addressing if any Aunt May, Mary Jane, Gwen Stacy, or Harry Osborn variants came over to the MCU, too, I'd actually love to hear about some of the side characters that basically had the experience of what Tom Hardy Eddie Brock had where nothing makes sense and it's all just overwhelming. My main point with all of this though: No Way Home is more like 8 universes colliding instead of just 3, or if it is 3, they're very different to the movies that we've seen, they characters just look familiar. So while none of this has anything to do with time travel, it definitely fits better than trying to understand the logic of all these branching universes of people surviving and not and who knows what that shouldn't. They'll all return back to the universes that they know, at the time they're supposed to, and the universe continues on from there, no further branching required. Or maybe that makes new branches to the already 8 separate universes. It's all a mess, and we're really not meant to think about these things so much, but No Way Home set a few ground rules for the events to happen, and the studios played with our nostalgia, how can we not be expected of over-analyze this stuff?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Really good feedback. Yeah, it's clear that their focus was more on nostalgia than on internal logic. But I'm still glad they did what they did, as it was a dream come true to see them all in the movie together like that. Regarding Max, I think the idea was that he learned Peter was Spider-Man, but didn't have a picture to view, but rather he got the info from the data he absorbed. He said "I was stuck in the grid, absorbing data", so we have to assume that's how he learned Peter's name and learned he was Spider-Man, but didn't know what he looked like. But yeah, they didn't really try to explain it all, but rather just gave us a fun movie. As for whether they are variants from different universes, that's a cool idea. Considering that Tobey and Andrew each had a "sacred timeline" of their own and then likely had branches off that, then the villains could have come from branches and thus the reason for some of the differences. Anyway, loved all your ideas. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Loved reading it!

[@MCLegoboy]

@@AbitofEverything4U Forgot about him absorbing data (TASM2's not exactly high on my rewatch list, I really only rewatched it in prep for No Way Home). That's still flimsy for there be no further information about Peter, but I guess it just depends on the databases he accessed. And Electro isn't Ultron, perhaps he can only process things so quickly even in an electrical state.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I definitely agree that they provided the most flimsy of reasons for how Electro showed up. I suspect they tried their best to find some reason, but it's not a great one by any means.

[@chickenphat730]

22:40 Yeah I think that’s a good explanation. Except that Doctor Strange’s spell that brought the villains in was also kind of time travel related, and clearly that wasn’t pulling from the main timeline, and that’s magic too. So I feel like a different explanation (other than the closed loop which she said, which totally works for me), is that it’s a 4th type of time travel (quantum realm, time stone, magic) which would be dimensional time travel, which would make sense because the Jinn are from a different dimension, which is a different thing entirely from time. So yeah idk. But as always man, SUCHH a great video! Really great ways of explaining things! 👍🏼

[@Kromiball]

I think there's a difference between alt universes and other dimensions

[@Kromiball]

Dimensions are layers of a universe, they are part of a universe. Alt universes, are well, their own universes, with their own dimensions imo the raimi and webb universes have their own dimensions, dr strange just accidentally pulled them and their villains (possibly from other timelines (or universes, there's pretty much no distinction here (when I think there SHOULD be))) into the MCU which is another universe. It's interuniversal travel.

[@chickenphat730]

@@Kromiball right. Yeah I agree. Dimensions are completely separate from different universes, whether that means each universe has its own mirror dimension, quantum realm, etc, idk, or if each dimension only has one version shared throughout. But all I was trying to say was to explain how Ms. Marvels time travel into her own timeline was even possible, so I thought maybe the bangle used the Noor dimension and it’s power to some how do that. Idk how, but that makes more sense to me then trying to explain it with the quantum realm time travel or magic time travel.

[@Kromiball]

@@chickenphat730 Ahh, that scene. Didn't know you were talking about that scene since you only mentioned the Jin/Clandestines' dimension. I feel like in that scene Ms. Marvel did NOT (willingly) time travel back to 1947, it was Aisha that brang her to 1947. My theory is that if the past tries to interact with the future, it will not create a new timeline... Whilst if the future interacts with the past, the timeline splits and creates a new timeline. Does that make sense? It's like if you as a child time traveled to the future and met your adult self (or alternatively force your future self into your own timeline like Aisha did but with Kamala) it would not affect anything; but if you were an adult and you met your child self, that would create a new timeline since that interaction never happened (unless it actually happened when you were a child) An even more simplified version; (irl example) think of it like this, you can send your future self a letter by... storing that letter in somewhere leaving it to rot and only opening it after a certain date. However you cannot send your younger self a letter since that never happened. (but if you could, it would cause a split in your younger ver's timeline)

[@chickenphat730]

@@Kromiball okayyy. Yeah that’s actually a great explanation. I mean as the sacred timeline gets closer to kang and such I bet we’ll see evidence of that being either true or false. But i suppose we haven’t seen anyone in 616 time travel into the future at all. Great ideas

[@AllyGirl-hg2sb]

Agents of shield was so good.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ikr? Such a consistently well written series from Season 1 to Season 7. It doesn't get enough love!

[@AllyGirl-hg2sb]

@@AbitofEverything4U I binge watched it last year i think and finished it within a week it was that good.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@AllyGirl-hg2sbWow...that's impressive!

[@exeacua]

I don't think branching out of the sacred timeline is when a new timeline creates a new He Who Remains variant or not. I think it is when a new timeline branches out enough to be reached by any other He who remains variant. The much grander multiverse was already there, but He Who Remains created the sacred timeline by enclosure a lot of timelines out of the reach of the other variants of himself.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Interesting theory! Yeah, I could see that being the case as well. It is true that He Who Remains didn't fully explain the way Kang variants are created, but instead just made it clear that his role was to prevent it each time. Maybe in Loki S2 they will go into exactly what causes a nexus event. Definitely excited about S2. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@_astro350_]

The Vulture incursion also applies to the Black Widow that was sent to the Avengers Assassinated Universe in What If

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Exactly! I wonder if What If will follow up on that. Perhaps the fact that her universe was basically wiped clean by Ultron minimizes the incursion chances? Definitely a question to be answered by Season 2, I hope!

[@lightworkerilluminatian4399]

About Vulture: I Think that iplies that Secret War would be between MCU and Sony Universe. Imagine that! X-Men vs Avengers after Phase 4, and other properties

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh wow, yeah that would be a very cool direction for Secret Wars! Great theory!

[@spider-dude2476]

I like to think Sandman and Peter(2) are from the same point in time unlike Norman & Otto because he was still alive at the end of Spiderman 3 while the other 2 dead at the end of there respectful films.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I completely agree. That makes alot of sense!

[@packet4382]

I mean cap being there as an old man makes no sense, because if he did travel from a branched timeline, where he lived with Peggy, then he would’ve appeared on the machine like hulk said he would. But instead he appeared on the bench which implies the time he went back to was the main timeline( no branches) which makes absolutely 0 sense

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, it does seem confusing that we don't see old Steve come back via the machine, but perhaps he figured out a way to travel back to his original timeline (assuming there was a branch) without using the machine. He likely didn't want anyone to know what he had done, other than of course Bucky and Sam, and so may have discovered new tricks for returning to his main timeline during the time he lived with Peggy and used that to secretly return. That's the only way it makes sense to me, but it is still pretty strange.

[@exxiyya4855]

After watching Quantenmania I wanted to search for an explanation on universes and time travel. I've thought about it multiple times but the established rules don't make any sense if you put them all together. I assume the writers didn't expect it to be that way but it certainly wasn't thought through.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I do agree that it seems the writers changed their minds over time. I think it all works out in the end, but I do wish they had been more clear up front on how things work and I really hope they bring it all together during the Multiverse Saga and explain how time travel works in the most clear way. I did a follow-up video that goes into more depth on the topic, if you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2KoZ2qleqiHr7c. But I agree, it's been abit more confusing than it needed to be. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!

[@exxiyya4855]

@@AbitofEverything4U Thank you for making this follow up video. I really appreciate it. Hopefully they address this in the following movies or at least sum it up of some sorts because it potentially could become a mess.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@exxiyya4855 Yes, I really do hope the writers are all working together and sticking to the same rules. I suspect Feige is asking them to work as a team, but we'll have to wait and see!

[@axelnilsson5124]

17:29 with that logic Normans new timeline and the prime universe would have an incursion since Norman killed aunt May, left his glider in the prime universe and is the main reason to why Spider-Man primes life has gone downhill

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good observation. I think the reason No Way Home didn't cause larger issues is because the villains and the Spidermen were sent back before the incursion got out of control. If you remember, in the final act of the movie, everything went nuts and the fabric of reality was literally tearing open and lots of other universes were colliding with 616. This was prevented when everyone was sent back. So I think it actually works with the rules in MoM because Reed said it wasn't just the appearance of someone in another universe that destroys it, it's the longer the footprint continues to exist. In 838, for instance, Strange's appearance in 838 brought in Wanda who then killed the Illuminati. So there were a few different rules broken. But the fact that Strange left prevented the 838 reality from completely destroying. That's at least what makes sense to me. Let me know what you think. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@Surfboarder4]

@@AbitofEverything4U It seems that Reed was describing a general principle, not an absolute rule.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@Surfboarder4 Well said. His answer was a general guidance rule.

[@AustinH7]

Doc ock seemingly would die no matter what. He was taken from the time when the reactor was already melting down. He sacrificed himself already in the original timeline, he reformed himself. He still dies no matter what, unless he’s taken back from earlier in the timeline which he wasn’t

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I could be wrong, but I thought they referenced the specific point he was pulled into No Way Home during the movie. In Spider-Man 2, after knocking Doc Ock back with the electrical burst, Peter swings over to the downed Octavius and pulls off his mask. “Peter Parker. Brilliant but lazy.” He pleads with Doc Ock, saying they have to shut down the reactor. “I can’t, I won’t!” Octavius says as a claw grabs Peter’s neck. That’s where he was pried from the timeline. In the original movie, after that, Peter reminds him of what he said, that knowledge is a gift to be used for the good of mankind. Otto’s mind retakes control of the tentacles and he dies drowning the reactor in the Hudson.

[@AustinH7]

@@AbitofEverything4U exactly! So it seems even if he’s sent back “reformed” it won’t do much good because the fusion reactor still is critical and has to be stopped

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@AustinH7 I suspect the theory is that when he goes back in the branch, he will help Peter rather than attacking him and together they shut it down in time. He would have to go back before it goes critical though, you are definitely correct about that.

[@MegaRayquaza260]

Since we have no way of knowing what universes may create a kang variant my personal belief is while they're are hundreds, thousands, however many universes before He Who Remains died that they are all very similar universes and where the only changes would be small decisions and how the character look

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, that could be. We do know that some pretty crazy variations have existed, which created Frog Thor, Alligator Loki, the three Spider-men, Sylvie (i.e female Loki), etc. So it's possible that after He Who Remains died that we did get some pretty crazy timelines. But you could be right that it may take while before that happens. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts.

[@Surfboarder4]

Hey! I sent you an up-to-date infographic I have saved on every single MCU timeline, universe, dimension, and other such realm. It seems to be accurate and its really useful to see everything all in one place

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh wow, that's really sweet. Nice job! I agree, it's great to have it all in one place! But, I can never get a straight answer on whether the Quantum Realm and/or the Dark Dimension are also outside of time or if there is one of those for each universe. My gut feels they have to be outside of time, but I see different things each time I look for answers. What's your thought?

[@suicidaltommy4853]

2014 gamora being in the 616 timeline should cause an incursion. Haven’t heard anyone mention that

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I wondered about that as well. I briefly discussed it in the video, but the more I think about it, I wonder if she was able to enter 616 w/o issue due to her universe being a branch off of the main 616 that was created during the time heist. Additionally, the fact that Steve returned the stones and clipped those new branches means her universe no longer exists. And since an incursion is essentially two universes colliding, perhaps that's why it isn't causing an incursion? Just my head canon, but I do hope they give us a firm answer at some point. It's a great question that you raise!

[@ethanbutler7629]

In endgame, all Loki did was use the tesseract, he didn’t time travel or use the quantum realm or anything. So surely he didn’t create another branch and that event was just part of the flow of time of the branch the avengers had already created. As in there is no branch where the avengers go back and Loki doesn’t use the tesseract. So then when the TVA show up and wipe the timeline at the start of Loki S1, they are surely wiping the timeline where cap fights cap, hulk meets ancient one etc etc. They wiped it because Loki using the tesseract was enough to create a nexus event and mean a Kang variant could be created, not any of the other things. That then raises the question to how cap returned the stones to a reality that had been wiped by the TVA, so surely no longer exists? I could be wrong in all what I’m saying, but that’s just my thoughts after watching. 😅

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Interesting theory. You could well be right on the fact that Loki didn't create yet another branch. However, using the What If principles that each decision could create a new branch, and at the end of Loki we saw that timelines branched off timelines in what began to look like roots of a tree, then it is possible that the branch created by the Avengers had a timeline where Loki didn't escape and one where he did, based on how the tesseract fell on the floor and whether it scooted over to Loki. I kinda suspect that it was indeed another branch, because then the TVA could clip it w/o making it impossible for Cap to return the stones. But that's just a possible theory. You definitely raise an interesting point. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@Surfboarder4]

Actually I don't think Tobey and Andrew's multiversal travel created a branch, since they were pulled from the present, and returned to the present. Whereas the villains being removed were each a nexus point. Also, Feige says that Loki is what allows for No Way Home to happen, so I think those worlds branched after the end of Loki on the metatimeline. The Ms Marvel thing kinda works if you excuse it as a meta-timeline bootstrap paradox

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I prefer to think Tobey and Andrew went back to their own timeline w/o creating a branch. It doesn't see like they need to do that. Interesting point about Loki and Feige's comment. It's still possible the timelines existed already and what Feige referred to is the weakened state of the multiverse after Loki S1 which allowed Dr. Strange's spell to go away and pull them in. Just a thought, though. No way to know for sure, I guess. And I like your idea on Ms. Marvel. That makes alot of sense. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@Surfboarder4]

@@AbitofEverything4U FYI by meta-timeline I mean the chronology across the entire multiverse. So when Ms Marvel went back in time, the only way this works is if she went back in Meta-time as well, because it happened the same way the first time around, when HWR was still ruling, however because it's a closed loop, there's 0 risk of any impossible paradoxes. Or we could argue that when she goes back in time she creates a branch, and that there's a different explanation for the stars story in 616, but that's obviously requires us to ignore the point of what happens

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@Surfboarder4 Right, I think it was a risky move to introduce the topic of a closed loop with so little explanation of how it works, but I think it comes down to it having no possible paradoxes and just being a unique and special situation that created the closed loop.

[@josinfleurs]

About the Ms. Marvel situation... I do believe that The Marvels will give us a better explanation about the bangle time travel and its magic

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I agree, I am very anxious to learn more about her bangle and that's a great place for it to happen!

[@covertTJ]

An important thing to remember is that the way characters explain things is not necessarily how things work. The Ancient One and Bruce discuss time travel in the terms that they understand, but the reality is that neither of them understands. Bruce is 100% wrong about erasing branches by returning the stones. The branch will always exist because the stones can't be returned to the same point in time unless they're being taken to entirely separate timelines. You can't revisit the same point in time on any given timeline or else all the events of the third timeline are already happening in the first. Meaning in the background of TAO talking to Bruce, we should also see Steve bringing the time stone back to TAO. We should also see another instance of TAO where she's just fighting Chitauri and totally blind to Bruce, Steve and two clones of herself all on the roof together. Keep this in mind when discussing incursions, too. The characters literally don't know what they're talking about.

[@jpyanity443]

I assumed that Steve would be returning the second Bruce left. So while technically Bruce is wrong that “the stones never left”, the time that the stones were gone was so small that it was inconsequential

[@covertTJ]

@@jpyanity443 this could be more or less true though it doesn't explain how he could practically undo things like the Red Skull encounter or the initial branching itself. I'm inclined to see it as all branches always existed, but are generally imperceptible unless you know you're in one due to some time travel interaction.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@A TJ W, excellent comments. Yes, I definitely agree they didn't understand everything. My problem was the first time I watched the movie, I assumed that they did and I gave them too much credit. So I wanted to point out in this video how they were only partially correct with their limited understanding of things. Thanks so much for your comments. You nailed it perfectly!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@jpyanity443 Good points. I do suspect Steve showed up right after the original Avengers left with the stones, which, by the way, would be so much fun to see if they ever decided to film it in a one-shot to show us how it all went down. But I still think both Bruce and the Ancient One were only partially correct in what they said and there were so much more going on then they were aware of. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories. I really appreciate it!

[@MediaLeft425]

my take on time travel is that after Loki S1 all timelines branched. In Endgame, once stones were returned, these branched timelines simply did not exist and were wiped in favor of the sacred timeline, because if the Avengers didn't cover their tracks, you can damn well bet the TVA did.

[@MediaLeft425]

the raimi, webb, and ssu all take place in branched timelines post-Loki S1 and immediately caught up with the MCU in terms of time. The SSU introducing Vulture will make him incredibly sick, almost like when he has cancer, because it's not his universe (Spider-Verse actually shows how this could be possible, as when they are in someone else's reality they start to glitch out, but because Vulture's MCU is so similar to the SSU, it will make him more sick than glitchy.) It will also lead to an incursion, which is where Secret Wars will happen as a crossover between the two film franchises. After Secret Wars, Tobey/Andrew/SSU will merge into the MCU to create one timeline, with presumably Andrew and Tobey being killed off to make this work.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I originally thought all timelines branched after Loki S1 as well. However, it seems the head writer's comments imply he assumed there were several timelines wrapped around the sacred timeline. It was only if a Nexus event occurred that pruning was necessary.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I do like the idea of the timelines colliding during Secret Wars. They can bring in the Sony characters, Fox characters, the Hulk from 2003, the Nick Cage Ghost rider, the original Blade, anything really. Will be an awesome time for some crazy cameos!

[@siadmander]

This is more art than science but I kind of imagine that there's a way for timelines to "flow back together" if they're not massively divergent. Like I picture all the Raimi characters ending up in one sort of merged timeline where reality rewrote itself to accommodate for the changes around them.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That could work. It's tricky since the villains and Spidey were all pulled from different points in the same timeline so weaving it all together into one timeline could be trickier than Dr. Strange could pull off in his spell, but of course anything is possible. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@siadmander]

@@AbitofEverything4U Sure, though I don't really think of it as something Strange exercised any control over. More the way I see it is this: They are all pulled from the same timeline and returned to the same timeline basically in a fell swoop (in the grand scheme of things). In the narrative flow of the universe I imagine that time itself would just sort of heal from that, it's almost MORE complex for a spell that dealt with 2ish timelines to now "figure out" the 7 new ones, I feel like it would kind of return them blindly and leave the ethereal forces of the universe to make things right. All just total headcanon anyway :) keep up the great videos!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@siadmander Ah, I'm following you. Yeah, that really would be pretty cool. It would mean the next time the Spideys all meet up, they could talk about the positive impact they had on the villains as they could share what happened in each of their lives after returning after being cured. Would be cool!

[@fluffycarrot42]

All of this "branching" creates several problems. In reality, multiverses are "created" every time a probability occurs. An easy way to think of this is to assume you role a dice, after the dice leaves your hand the timeline branches of into 6 new universes. In reality this happens at every moment in the universe, everywhere all at once. Every quantum fluctuation creates many new timelines. A rough ballpark is to say that there are roughly 10^82 atoms in the universe, each is composed of quarks and most are hydrogen. If we say that for every plank time each atom creates a new universe from the big bang 13.7 billion years ago. So that gives us 7205*10^56 plank seconds multiplied by every atom in the universe to give us an extremely rough (and probably wrong) low ball of 10^4592 universes just from that. The actual number is Infinite due to some abstract theoretical stuff but lets just ballpark it at that. (Accounting for everything diverges to infinity, and not a "small" infinity either. No, I'm talking the big daddy of infinities. I like to call it True infinity minor. Minor doesn't account for everything overall but just the number of universes but I'm getting of track) When you go "back in time" and create a new branch, from the moment you enter you create new universes every plank second until you leave. In Marvel it seems to work differently, that or the TVA is way busier that we anticipated. I think the takeaway is that everything is fine for the ancient one until you remove the infinity stone, as up until then it was just business as usual. As a general rule for time-travel and multiverse travel, don't. Take it from me, you don't want to open a gateway to somewhere *REALLY BAD*. Or remove your whole hyperversal plane just from eating the wrong slice of toast. You think Kang is bad, trust me he is a minor inconvenience. It's all fun and games until you open a portal to the warp... Or worse. Also when it comes to story telling, time travel and multiverses usually removes all sense of urgency. Any problem can just be fixed unless strict rules are followed. The MCU introduced "the one who remains" to explain this. He oversees the multiverse and culls any variances that diverge from his predesigned plan. After his death, everything has gone south. Playing the time-travel card so early has really ruined any sense of stakes. It's now like dragon ball, at one point a character wipes out several universes and they just wish them back. At that point how could there ever be any stakes?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I definitely understand your point, and your very valid concern, with the multiverse. If Marvel isn't careful, it can get out of control. I am counting on Feige to really think things thru and also having talented writers like Waldron is a big plus. Let's hope for the best, because you raise some very legit concerns that things can lose any sense of stakes. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@fluffycarrot42]

@@AbitofEverything4U I think it would be best if we just smash every multiverse back together and get a prime universe. I think that would be a good way to end the kang saga.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@fluffycarrot42 Yes, I totally agree. That's what I hope will be the results of Secret Wars. The multiverse saga is interesting and creates cool possibilities, but it needs to be controlled and also needs to have a firm ending.

[@realjohnlove]

18:43 I think it stands to reason if the spell brought people to the universe it should be able to kick people out of the universe. I think its more messy because it was the only reason to watch Morbius

[@AbitofEverything4U]

The only reason I think it's messy for the spell to kick people out of the universe is Strange specifically cast it to return people where were not supposed to be in our universe. So to add the extra element of it randomly kicking people to a different universe that happened to know who Peter Parker is adds a totally new aspect and raises the question of "why did Vulture go to that particular universe" and "who else got kicked out of 616" and "why are only some people kicked out when others are must made to forget Peter" and so on. Just seems like Sony made it up and didn't talk to Marvel. But that's my take on it. I guess maybe Fiege was okay with it. Who knows. Just seemed really random to me. Sigh.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U Well there was only the spell to work on MCU-616 Earth. Remember there was two spells. Its also the reason why I think its possible people off-world remember who Peter Parker is because the original spell focused on Earth. “Everyone in the world will forget Peter Parker is Spider-man” thus in brought every person who does know Peter Parker is Spider-man on other Earth’s. But did it apply to people not from Earth? I honestly believe no it doesn’t so Nick Fury might remember Peter Parker if he was still in space, Carol Danvers, the Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. Thus the 2nd spell was to fix the first spell by just making everyone on Earth. Otherwise it should make people on Andrew & Tobey’s Earth forget which I don’t think is the case I think it only applied to the MCU-616 So there was no spell that brought Vulture back. However, this could be a similar issue like the “8 years later” title card in Homecoming. My bigger question is how did Adrian Toomes make a new Vulture suit in the Morbius Earth without Chitauri tech?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I might be confused by what you are saying, and if so, I do apologize. My understanding is there were two spells: the first brought in people from other universes that knew who peter parker was into 616 and this spell would not have done anything with the 616 version of vulture; the second spell returned the people that came to 616 from the other universes and it made everyone in 616 forget who peter parker ever was and this also should not send vuture to a random universe. So I'm not sure I understand what part of the two spells would send Vulture to the sony-verse. But again, maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying. Then, you raise the excellent points that even if the spell somehow did sent vulture to Sony, then why did Vulture blame spiderman for it and how did he make the suit. Literally none of it makes any sense whatsoever. Sigh.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U First spell accidentally brought people, but I don’t think it wouldn’t also send people out as well who knew Peter Parker was Spider-man. Only way for that to come full circle is if Vulture does meet up with whoever the Spider-man is in Morbius universe he already knows he’s Peter Parker. First spell would be the one that would send out Vulture accidentally sort of like a trade. So possibly more people other than Adrian Toomes were sent out as well & Strange had no knowledge of this as he only knew about people coming to their universe not sending them out as well. Thus when Strange casted the 2nd spell, it would have required a sorcerer to send Adrian back to the 616 in that universe. Since Sony doesn’t seem to have a Doctor Strange that probably won’t happen lol

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I guess my confusion is that's not what Dr. Strange said the spell does, so that's why I'd be surprised if Marvel authorized the Vulture situation. Plus, it reaises the question of why didn't it send other people away to other universes? It seems to create more issues than it solves, so I suspect marvel didn't want it to happen, but I could be wrong.

[@josinfleurs]

The fans: OMG!!! The Avengers just created 1,000 branches!!! TVA: Yeah, but they looked good doing it!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL! I love it. Great comment! : )

[@realjohnlove]

Do you have a Facebook discussion group or a Quora or something?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

There is a discord server that we recently set up and it is getting a good amount of activity. Please feel free to join here: discord.gg/4jHtDSrC. It's been a fun place for MCU fans to chat

[@andrewrizzo2462]

Do you think the bangle and ten rings are a potential source of power for doom to draw from instead of the beyonder

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh how interesting. I did hear a theory that those two magical items are this sagas Infinity Stones. In other words, someone may start collecting them to gain power. Add in your theory of Dr. Doom and that makes a ton of sense. So now we need to keep our eye out for any additional magical items popping up. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@jaccaboibagguette6129]

Ms marvel didn't technically alter her own timeline. She just allowed to continue as it was. Like fitzsimmons seeing the gravitonium drive in the future. knowing how to then go back and make it. Because they made it before. That type of paradox.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, someone made an interesting suggestion that it wasn't that Kamala went into the past but that that past pulled her into it. That actually makes alot of sense Then, throw in that the bangles are magic and it allows for a really trippy time loop. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@talgatson001]

Do you think She-Hulk happens right after Shang-Chi or after Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness? I have a delusional and unofficial theory: Shang-Chi takes place in April 2025. In She-Hulk the fight of Abomination and Wong was clearly recent. 2024 or 2025? What do you think?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I laid out a possible timeline for She-Hulk in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3S6f51vhtOdiKs. But that is based upon Disney+ wanting Shang Chi in 2024 and She-Hulk in 2025. I must admit that t is certainly very strange to see that large of a gap in time. However, if you imagine that whoever recorded that video did so illegally during the fight (I suspect no recordings were allowed as it was an illegal fight club), then they probably just kept it on their phone for memories. Then, when Blonsky was up for parole and on the news with She-Hulk representing him, whoever recorded it was like "hey, wait, I can make some money off this". So they released it to the press at that point. In that case, the gap in time of nearly a year isn't so hard to imagine. But I will say that my initial assumption was that Shang Chi and She-Hulk happened much closer together. Just my thoughts. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories. Let me know what you think after reading this. Really appreciate the dialogue!

[@AxmPlays]

There's one thing about time travel that really bugs me So you know in Loki Mobius explains that timelines happen again and again and again meaning there should be infinite timelines And in avengers endgame part of the timeline is that they have to time travel back to 2012, 7th April 1970, 2013 and 2014, then back to their original timeline But however, there are infinite timelines that have travelled, are travelling or will travel to this exact date, no matter how long it takes, there should be an infinite amount of tony stark's, captain america's and all of them that travelled back, because these are all from the infinite timelines that have to time travel back to that exact date, all of these avengers will need to get the stone but there's only one of each since they all travelled to one timeline in 2012, 7th April 1970, 2013 and 2014

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, the multiverse can be pretty mind bending. So crazy to think each decision we make could result in a new universe. But regarding the time heist, I think there must be a way that they can travel back to the specific timeline that they have existed on for all their lives. So when they go back to 2012, for instance, you are right that there could be millions of Avengers teams across the multiverse also doing a time heist back to 2012, but in each case there is still a specific timeline they each exist on that is unique. So they can therefore go back in time on their own timeline and wouldn't meet up unless for some reason they intentionally tried to jump timelines/universes and appear in someone else's timeline. At least that's how it seems to me. I agree, it is all pretty hard to fathom.

[@AxmPlays]

@@AbitofEverything4U Oh true they could've gone to their respective 2012's 2013's 1970's and 2014's

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@AxmPlays Right! That's my assumption at least. Because you are correct that it just doesn't work otherwise.

[@AxmPlays]

@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah

[@_DrStrange_]

I just subscribed I really like ur content I hope to see more MCU but less about timeline placement I think its not that important

[@Robert-fr4it]

It is to some + also really interesting

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks for joining the channel. I'll probably do a mix of timeline and theory videos, but I think you are right that the theory videos are popular. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@Robert, Thanks for letting me know you like the timeline videos. I find them really interesting myself. I'll probably try to do a mix, so that everyone has something they enjoy. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@fabiocampo2869]

Ok, even after this video explanation, this whole MCU's stance on branched timelines and alternate universes need to be made more clear. "He who Remains" appears to monitor and manipulate branched timelines, ex: MCU Loki, but also manipulates different universes, ex: Sylvie. I always thought the infinite universes would be the most grand thing, and inside each of these universes contain branched timelines. However, the show made it seem like they are monitoring one stream. Even though you explained this "Sacred Timeline" is visualized as a cosmic rope with multiple fluid fibers. Are you picturing the multiverse and branched timelines are indistinguishable from each other? It seems that the TVA are only concerned with branches, but also talk about preventing a Multiversal War. Now this sacred timeline isn’t just one timeline in the MCU, you’ve made that clear. It also cant be an infinite number of timelines in one universe, because this is a multiversal threat. So it has to be logical that the TVA's squiggly line representing the Sacred Timeline has to be every single allowable universe that doesn't produce a Kang variant, along with its filtered out branched timelines. Now by going by "What if...?'s" logic, Peggy Carter's simple action in going upstairs created another "Universe". So is Marvel using branched timelines and other universes interchangeably on purpose? Is it a case of all branched timelines are universes, but not all universes are branched timelines? We left phase 3 thinking branched timelines were caused by time travel, but phase 4 reveals branching timeline universes spring naturally for something even so insignificant. So what could constitute a branched timeline? It can't be because multiversal forces want to see a new superhero. So if universes mid-timeline aren't brought up by conscious beings, then maybe we can turn to what the Ancient One babbles on about infinite possibilities. Maybe in the MCU, every single action that took place has happened in its own universe. We're talking about universes at every turn. Now to get deeper into this rabbit hole just so I can make sense of things… If the Big Bang is the start to space and time, do these infinite universes have their own separate big bangs? Or is the big bang THE singularity, and there are branches stemming off it every millisecond just so we can say every possibility happened. Like every atom and molecule has had its own variant movement in its separate timeline. Maybe the branches started out with the Infinity Stones in the virgin universe since these things matter so much. And the earliest possibility of cross-dimensional travel is when the first black hole became significant enough to pass through. It looked like "He Who Remains" used stacked up black holes in his diagraphm he showed to Loki and Sylvie to meet his variants. It could be a possibility that universes are just branches that fuse to multiple other branches the more we go back in time. They are drastically different but are connected. It could possibly look like one string, branching off different fibers, becoming more dense and thicker as it goes on. Like the MCU and Sam Raimi’s Spider-verse were one and the same timeline up until they branched in the 1700's for example. Time travel would have consequences if it goes against the natural flow of these branchings. Now to create even more mental gymnastics, if Alternate universes are branches with a common ancestor, in the macro-view in looking at the Marvel multiverse cosmic physics with its endless possibilities, any alternate universe we see that share a similar character or storyline probably diverged from each other in recent human history. Any universe with a Kang variant may be made out to seem like a big number, but would be an extremely small number compared to the universes out there. Now if the TVA monitors just potential Kang variants, and there are Watchers that have the possibility in traveling what appears to be hundreds to millions of universes, the whole TVA may be small fry to be of too much concern for the watchers. They can remain sociopathic to the ends of thousands of universes. This could also be a head canon excuse for the Watchers to not appear in Kang Dynasty. Now also because He Who Remains’ perfect sacred timeline is visualized as a clipped cosmic rope with relatively the same girth could be because he really needs to concern himself with a specific hundreds to thousand years of diverging timelines.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Wow, that's an in depth comment! I just loaded a new video on the multiverse and it answers many of your questions (even though I hadn't read this comment yet), but I don't know that it answers all of your questions. I will say that I think universes and timelines are the same thing. A new universe is created either by time travel creating a branch or by a critical decision that creates a nexus event. I do think all universes/timelines started from the same big bang and same universe, although I guess there could even be separate big bangs, but that makes my mind hurt. So I think all universes stated from the same original instance of time. The branches can occur at any point in time, however, which explains getting such unique variants of Loki that we saw in the Loki series. And I think He Who Remains looped time and set up tech to be able to determine what nexus events creates a new Kang and that's what he has the TVA address. I hope that answers your questions. It's all my opinion, of course, but I tried to base it on what we've seen in the MCU as well as some interviews by the writers of the shows/movies. Let me know if that raises more questions or not. And I hope you like the new video. Thanks so much for watching this vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

[@fabiocampo2869]

@@AbitofEverything4U I’ll check out the video u posted. I really like that concept of Kang using time loops to figure out the butterfly effects to his creation. It reminds me of Infinity War Strange using 14,000,605 cycles of time loops. Each could range from a day to over 5 years. Each time he shows back up to 2018 Titan, it changes his head position slightly, giving him the effect of rapid vibration.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good analogy between Kang's sacred timeline and Dr. Strange's finding the "one path". Love it!

[@madhavgupta2002]

Steve didn't time travel via quantum realm to return back to the bench The very timeline where Cap went to see Peggy was the sacred timeline we are seeing since 2008 and it's also a closed loop...

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That's possible, but I'm not sure what the closed loop was. In other words, what did he need to go back in time to do to close the loop? I do agree that we don't see Steve return to the bench, but perhaps he figured out a way to travel back to his original timeline (assuming there was a branch) without using the bench. He likely didn't want anyone to know what he had done, other than of course Bucky and Sam, and so may have discovered new tricks for returning to his main timeline during the time he lived with Peggy and used that to secretly return. Anyway, thanks for sharing your theory. You could be right. I do just wish Marvel would tell us one way or another, but it's fun to theorize.

[@madhavgupta2002]

@@AbitofEverything4U He didn't have to close the loop on purpose It just happened to be that the timeline we were watching as the one which played out the way it was shown i.e. cap reuniting, 3 phases of mcu, and the bench scene This theory doesn't break any rules or require some alternate time travel that cap does.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I guess that's possible, but the closed loop theory is a situation where something has to happen for your very existence to be possible. Kamala had to go back in time to help Nanni onto the train or she didn't exist. That's the only reason she was able to travel to her own past and directly impact her own future. I guess I don't see how that is the case with Steve going back to be with Peggy as that wasn't necessary for his very existence. But I guess anything is possible.

[@TimothyMReynolds]

The Dr. Strange WHAT IF? “Absolute Point in Time” thing doesn’t work, because if Christine Palmer’s death is an absolute point in time, HOW TF does 616 Strange (and also 838 Strange) become a sorcerer, if her death is supposed to be so “absolutely” essential to it’s happening? Doesn’t add up.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good question. My assumption is that it was only an absolute point in time in that universe. Each universe diverges from the others at some point, so I would suspect that each universe therefore has its own unique absolute point(s) in time. But that's just my guess. It's a good question for sure!

[@JordanFDT]

Did they fix the timeline the anceint one is in? Loki took the tesseract and then got captured by the TVA so that stone is gone, so captain america and iron man then went back to the army bunker time line and got a diffrent teseract. So where did cap return the stome? If they took it back to the army bunker, then fast forward to loki taking it and there timeline losing a stone, OR did they returned it to where loki disappeared (not knowing loki had been captured by the TVA), leaving the army bunker timeline with out a stone

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great comments. I would actually pay to see a one-shot that followed Captain America as he returned the stones. Please, please give it to us Marvel. As for your question, here is my take. I suspect Cap returned the space stone to the 1970's. The reason is because when they went back in time to 2012, things branched immediately. Then, Loki branched off that. And when they took the time stone, that created a branch and when they took the mind stone that created a branch. So 2012 was a hot mess. I suspect Cap made sure the time stone and mind stone were returned to 2012 and thus the Ancient One might be in a branch where the space stone is just plain gone. Ironically, she may care less about it since she has the time stone back. Crazy, huh? Anyway, just my guess. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I agree, it is a wild situation!

[@JordanFDT]

@@AbitofEverything4U it gets even more complicated from there then. If the TVA did prune the timeline where loki got the space stone, does that then suggest thier was a branch where iron man and captain america didnt need to go back to 1970's to collect the power stone, as loki didnt get the stone in 2012. It's all super confusing but i love it for that, time travel should be complicated XD Love the content by the way, hearing your views and opoion on the MCU has encouraged me many times to go back and watch it again and again :)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@JordanFDT Yes, it does continue to spiral into craziness, doesn't it. I guess the big question is whether pruning a branch impacts the original branch or not. In other words, if you prune Loki's branch, does that mean he never teleported away with the tesseract? Or does it mean the moment he teleported away, they demolished the branch. So many excellent theories. Overall I really like how Endgame handled branching and time travel, but it does raise alot of good questions. And thanks so much for your kind words about the videos. I love making them and I am so happy to hear they resulted in you getting excited about rewatching the MCU. We are living in great times to have all this fantastic content!

[@JordanFDT]

@@AbitofEverything4U i have viewed it as the moment a desision is made the time line branches, so when loki looks down and sees the tesseract, he has a choice, pick it up and run or leave it. So the moment he picked it up and ran it became a new branch which called the TVA, where as if he had left it for a moment longer a security guard may have grabbed it preventing him from fleeing. Endgame was great, its old man cap that breaks most of the rules tho XD, my head cannon is the TVA gave him a lift back to the main MCU timeline XD

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@JordanFDT Oh, I like that idea for branching. It makes very good sense based on the logic explained in What If. The decision itself is the branch and not so much the following action. Love it! For old man Cap, I am assuming that while he lived his life out in the branch he somehow figured out how to return to his original new timeline w/o the time machine. For example, Fitz was able to do that in AoS, so perhaps there is some way to find your native timeline w/o the aid of a special machine. Just a crazy theory.

[@madhavgupta2002]

Tobey and Andrew and other universes seen in the multiverse of madness aren't strands in the sacred timeline, but completely different universes The sacred timeline and TVA we saw is only for 616...

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Definitely agree that you could be right. It's just a theory of mine that the Tobey and Andrew timelines are part of the sacred timeline. But to your point about the sacred timeline being only 616, I agree on that, but who is to say that Tobey and Andrew can't be offshoots of 616? We don't know the specific "what if" divergence that created their timelines, but they could be offshoots of the sacred timeline. Again, I could be wrong, as it's just a fun theory and it all works out either way. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@madhavgupta2002]

@@AbitofEverything4UI see 2 different concepts being called multiverse *1. Loki* it just shows branches in a single timelines when become too chaotic causes the existence of multiverse and are therefore required to be pruned. *2. MOM, NWH* Completely different Universes just like shown in the intro of last ep of Loki which have no resemblance to other ones. They each have an energy signature corresponding to them like 616, 838 etc. And When Strange casts the spell only people from this type of multiverse come..

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think the key is that at the end of Loki, the branches all came from the existing timelines. In fact, I would think that all the timelines started from some initial point (i.e. the creation of time). So if there were multiple timelines that were wrapped around the sacred timeline, I suspect they all came from some initial point and are thus offshoots of that initial point. That would also explain why the universes collided with 616 in NWH was because they were possibly closer offshoots of 616 than other universes. Fun to theorize all this stuff. So many possibilities!

[@DarthTingleBinks]

Bringing up your mention of the other potential branches formed during 2012, I don't actually think those result in branches. They could, but say they happened, and we saw those branches instead the third time the timeline branches with Loki escaping. The Avengers woulr successfully aquire the Tesseract and the Scepter and travel back to the future. Would you then have a branch from 616, or would it play out exactly the same? Because the Avengers we know that made it back to 2012 DIDN'T immediately succeed. Or would it affect the 616 at all? They get the Infinity Stones regardless, so... Does it really matter? Can you have a variant of the Sacred Timeline version of someone who is following the events of the Sacred Timeline in a branch caused by their actions in the past? Is that possible?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great questions. Thank goodness there isn't much time travel in the MCU. But, I do suspect that you could indeed have a variant of the Sacred Timeline version of someone who is following the events of the Sacred Timeline in a branch caused by time travel into the past. So if Steve hadn't returned the stones and thus repaired those branches created during the time heist, then there would still be a branch where the Strike team assumed Captain America was Hydra (since he said "Hail Hydra" in that elevator). In a way, it's no different than the branches created during the What If episodes. It's an independent branch running parallel to the sacred timeline.

[@DarthTingleBinks]

@@AbitofEverything4U What I moreso mean is, if in those alternate branches, the Avengers from the future traveled with the Infinity Stones back to 2023. Would that then split the timeline, or would it be so miniscule a difference as they still have the Infinity Stones in 2023 regardless that no split would be formed?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

It seems that any time travel into your own past creates a branch.

[@BlackHedgehog]

The counterpoint to Cap being in a branch is that we have an old man at Peggy's funeral who looks suspiciously like old Cap.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I have definitely have heard that theory and I do wonder if that's what the writers had in mind all along. Sure seems like it, because they believe he went back in the main timeline to be with Peggy. But the big problem with it is that it makes all the other time travel get really weird if somehow Cap went back into his own timeline when every other time time travel created a branch. Plus, I just can't fathom Cap going back in time, staying in our timeline, but not wanting to prevent 9/11 or other tragedies. It would break his heart to just have to sit and watch them happen, knowing people were going to die. So I think he had to create a branch. But just my take. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!

[@BlackHedgehog]

@@AbitofEverything4U Of course that is the counterpoint to the counterpoint. But who knows what if he encountered He Who Remains or even the TVA and was given the rundown of things. At the same time . . . it also doesn't make much sense. It's such a hard thing to explain especially since Peggy clearly has a husband but we never see his picture.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@BlackHedgehog Right. I honestly wish they would just answer the question once and for all of her husband. The mystery is fun and I do like guessing at her husband, but at some point it would be nice for them to close it down. In the meantime...theories abound!

[@IbrahimAli-jl8fu]

You forgot about what they established in WandaVision. If you microwave your computer 6 minutes and 16 seconds, take a bath with 6 green rubber ducks, eat a full stick of butter without chewing, pluck four blades of grass from your backyard and break them into thirds, tie your shoes and untie them until a time travel portal appears in front of you, but you can only time travel the number of years that is the same number of the length of your di- All jokes aside that's how contrived this all is. It's extremely difficult to get one time travel straight, even harder to get 7 or 8 or however the hell many there are right now. Keep it up.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I tried the microwave / duck bath / butter stick / grass blade / shoe tying trick and now I'm out a computer, have some ticked off ducks, a patch of lawn with no grass, and messed up shoe laces and after all that, I never went back in time. I call foul on WandaVision. It's all a lie, I tell you... all a lie! Yes, it is hard to keep track of all the rules and so I hope it is true when Feige said that they had a meeting to discuss the time travel rules and really nail them down. With Kang having a huge presence soon, they can't keep making things up and need to stick to the rules they have established. Fingers crossed! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@IbrahimAli-jl8fu]

@@AbitofEverything4U No problem.

[@barwallthenarwall3260]

Loki ep 4: "You know, we brought in Kree, Titans, vampires. Why is it the two orphan demigods are such a pain in the ass?" Maybe Morbius was creating a branched timeline by not being arrested and that would explain why the TVA did nothing because in the end of Loki there were so many branched timelines mobius and hunter B-15 were confused asking if "he wants us to let it branch?" So is Morbius not supposed to exist?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very interesting. Yes, I really want them to pay off that vampire line. Since Blade is coming soon and Werewolf by Night is coming even sooner, I'd love to know what the TVA thinks about those types of creatures. In fact, it seemed like there were TVA agents in the trailer for Werewolf by Night. Did you catch that? It would be insane if the TVA showed up in that special. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@sonicspider5415]

Do you think the movie/ tv multiverse is different from the spider-verse or comics multiverse and could explain the differences and similarities

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great questions! I do think the MCU Movie/TV multiverse is a different entity from the comics and the comics are likely not part of the MCU multiverse at all. Regarding the Sony Spider-verse, I am wondering if there might be more connections to the MCU multiverse down the line. It seems like Marvel and Sony are playing together nicely, so anything is possible. What are your thoughts on it? And thanks so much for watching the video and commenting. I really appreciate it!

[@sonicspider5415]

@@AbitofEverything4U I just hope the multiverse is explained well with its rules and the TVA and stuff I just wonder how the web of life and destiny would work since it’s from the comics and I hope it is the same one linking Spider-People from all films and other media Maybe in a perfect world the spiderverse could’ve been it’s own cinematic universe oh well

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@sonicspider5415 Right, I am really hoping it all gets tied together somehow. You give some really good ways it could work!

[@sonicspider5415]

@@AbitofEverything4U do you think the movie multiverse and comic ones are different

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@sonicspider5415 I suspect so...but I guess anything is possible with Secret Wars. I mean we did get a paint universe in Multiverse of Madness, so the sky's the limit!

[@quindecim7507]

If that's the case, that endgames time travel was traveling to branched realities, wouldn't that mean the Avengers potentially caused a bunch of incursions? Edit: I hadn't gotten to the incursion segment in the video yet lol.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good question. My take would be that the Avengers time heist created branches off their own timeline that they created themselves and thus the Avengers being in those branched realities didn't cause an incursion because they created the branch to begin with. But if it did cause an incursion (because you could be right on your theory) then the key is that they weren't there long enough to cause a complete collapse of reality. Taking No Way Home as an example, the villains and the Spidermen were able to be there for awhile before the incursion caused the rips in time and space at the end of the movie. However, the urgency in capturing them and sending them back was due to the fact that they longer they were there, the greater chance that reality fractures. So, using that example, the Avengers didn't stay long enough to cause the incursion to result in a full destruction of reality. Just my thoughts, as you do raise a great question. Thanks so much for watching and adding your theories!

[@realjohnlove]

Endgame Time Heist needs consequences & that consequence is Kang. A lot of people want Cap to just return the stones & everything be okay. I want havoc & madness to ensue from their miseducation lol

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, the time heist definitely needs more unpacking. That said, Ramona explained that the TVA felt the time heist "was supposed to happen", so maybe it didn't create too much carnage...other than of course it created the Loki branch, which ultimately took down the TVA. So.... I guess you are right in a way...the Time Heist did indeed create Kang.

[@roamer.edits.]

I really wanna see the reality where Loki left in endgame, Thor would’ve been killed in Thor 2 by Kurse and no one would’ve grabbed the tesseract

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yea, that would be cool. Loki leaving would have had a huge impact!

[@SiIIy_]

I don’t think an incursion could occur by someone from another universe being there. Steve Rogers didn’t cause an incursion and he was there for over 70 years

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it's hard to understand exactly what Reed Richards meant by a person being in another universe creating an incursion. Perhaps since Steve created a branch from the main universe of which he was originally a part, then that kept it from being an incursion when he lived out life in the newly created branch. It seems you have to jump from one universe to another (as Dr. Strange did in MoM) to potentially create an incursion. But I agree, we need more info to know for sure what causes an incursion. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@channierichardson8440]

Sorry. One more thing I think what Disney and Sony with what's left of the fox universe I think Disney is going to use that to do Secret Wars so it would be the MCU vs Sony verse vs fox verse in BATTLE WORLD

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes! I do like that idea alot. We need to see several universes collide on Battleworld. The Fox universe, the Sony universe, the earlier Hulk from 2003, the original Blade, the Nick Cage Ghost Rider, etc, etc. Great time for a huge set of cameos. Love it!

[@ivanvillanueva9092]

But how does Loki and Sylvie falling in love create a kang, or a Loki getting off a floating rock or a alligator eating a cat?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good question. It seems that there is a direct tie between Loki's actions and a Kang being created. Otherwise, the TVA wouldn't be so aggressively pruning Loki's. I suspect we will learn in Loki S2 the reason why Loki's are such a threat. But He Who Remains seemed to be stating that the main mission of the TVA was to prevent any timeline that resulted in a Kang variant being created, i.e. that generated a nexus event. At that was my take. Let me know what you think. I learn alot from the dialogue with people who watch the videos and have differing opinions. And thanks also for watching!

[@Jammerdude07]

Wouldn’t there also be 3 more timelines with tasm

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, most definitely. I probably didn't make that clear enough that I was just showing just the Toby example. Thanks for pointing that out. You are 100% correct. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!

[@654ethan]

feige should’ve done that get together and figured out the rules before starting phase 4 😒

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I do wonder if they had all the rules of time travel, branching, nexus events, incursions, etc nailed down from the start. I sorta doubt it. That said, if they didn't then they still deserve alot of credit for everything ultimately still coming together and working out. I do suspect the storylines will be even tighter as things go forward as they now have it all laid out and nailed down. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@user-oz3um2ii7o]

Sandman was pull of in 2005.

[@BrySchec]

How do we know that? Couldn't he have been removed from the present as well? Flint and Peter seem to be on good terms, and it seems to have happened however long after Spider-Man 3.

[@user-oz3um2ii7o]

@@BrySchec I think the villains were pulled off when they knew Spider-Man's identity.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@Димчо Димов, Yeah, it's hard to tell. I definitely agree that it was after the point that the Sandman knew his identity and it was likely around the time of Spider man 3, but I also agree that it could have been after that point, too.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@BrySchec, yes, I wondered the same thing. I think they left it up to some interpretation. From a sheer consistency point, it might make sense for it to be that Sandman was pulled from around the time of Spiderman 3, since the other villains were pulled from around the time of their movies, but it could go either way.

[@chopstick3555]

Soooo, venom being in the mcu would cause an incursion right?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I am beginning to wonder if that's their plan. Wouldn't it be wild if it all tied into Secret Wars, since the first Secret Wars is where Spider-man got the black costume. So Venom may help create the incursions that lead to Secret Wars.

[@chopstick3555]

@@AbitofEverything4U ohh good idea!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@chopstick3555 Yeah, that would be sweet!

[@awesomeobliterated8890]

Here's a theory: for the vulture in morbius situation, maybe vulture is gathering the villains being established in their own movies in sony's universe to become an iteration of the sinister six to fight tom Holland. But vulture does not fully know about how he was transported to another universe. However, this sony spiderverse could be shown to start to break apart because of all the incursions from the gathering of villains vulture is doing, but secret wars allows these sony villains to come to the main 616 universe before their universe collapses, where they can eventually in a future movie installment, fight tom holland (I say future movie after secret wars cause that avengers movies alone will have a lot going on). If something I just said in my theory does not make sense, keep in mind I did not watch the Morbius movie or it's post credit scene so all I know is that vulture recruited morbius for something in the sony universe. I am waiting for the movie to come on streaming. Also I am aware that it makes no sense to why vulture ended up in sony's universe, so they would have to explain that too. What do you think?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I like the idea. I think having the Morbius universe collide with the MCU during Secret Wars works well. I think Secret Wars will bring in so many cameos from things like the Fox universe, the Sony universe, the Hulk from 2003, the Nick Cage Ghost Rider, etc, etc. So many possibilities. I do hope Sony and Marvel are working together to make Secret Wars amazing. Thanks so much for watching the video and sharing your theories!

[@awesomeobliterated8890]

@@AbitofEverything4U no problem and yes I agree that secret wars will be big enough to challenge endgame! Though I’m gonna control my expectations so I don’t get disappointed in case certain people don’t end up showing, but I can’t wait to see what they have in store!