How Gondor & Arnor Almost Reunited, but Lost Their Kings Instead

Gondor and Arnor, the Kingdoms in Exile, were exceedingly strong, especially under the rule of their kings. But there came a time when they almost reunited, but would lose their kings instead, leading the kingdoms into dark times. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on this in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@istari0]

Arvedui's tale is one of the greater tragedies in the history of Middle-Earth. I wonder how much misery could have been avoided had the Steward Pelendur supported Arvedui's claim to the throne instead of opposing it.

[@AugustusR]

One has got to love how much of Tolkien's major historical plots do resemble real historical developments, true to both human nature and the world he built, consistent and believable where many fantasy authors fail to make their worldbuilding work.

[@cm275]

I haven’t been interested in Rings of Power, but imagine if they used a budget like that to make a faithful retelling of the Arnor War or the wars with the Wainriders. That’d be so dope.

[@aestheticmoon8049]

Nothing better than a Men of the West video to help relax after a long day of work. 🖤😩

[@catherinewhite2943]

Tolkien was a devout man, and this thread of the story encapsulates and exemplifies the meaning of Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it's end is the way to death." So often the path that looks to be straightforward and simple and expedient is a dead end, in this as well as in Middle Earth.

[@johndododoe1411]

This IS Middle Earth, or Midgard as the Vikings called it in their legends.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

There are two Palantir in the Ice Bay of Forochel. Nobody has looked for or tried to recover them. What if someone in the Fourth Age retrieved them?

[@TJDious]

I don't think they had scuba gear or even diving bells in Middle Earth. The existence of the Watcher in the Water suggests that they DID have horrific sea monsters.

[@lynneglendenning947]

I found it. It is at Orthanc with Saruman.

[@AugustusR]

Have you tried retrieving anything from the depths of freezing and violent waters without modern technology? That is assuming the sea has not taken them even deeper or further north. As far as anyone was concerned they were impossible to retrieve, and I can't blame them ahaha

[@shadowofchaos8932]

@@AugustusR everyone assumed they were unattainable. But a Black Numenorean in 1183 of the Fourth Age retrieved the two using the master stone. The Osgiliath Stone was the master stone of the 7 Palantiri.

[@AugustusR]

@@shadowofchaos8932 What was that about Fourth Age 1183? Some fanfiction?

[@sageofcaledor8188]

Excellent video! I actually love this story because of the hope that it created and the realization Aragorn is the descendant of the two sons of Elendil. I think deep down, the Steward knew the Prince of Arthedain had a legitimate claim to the throne, but due to the Captain being popular, he didn't answer (because he knew the laws of succession favored the daughter) and silently crowned the Captain as King anyway.

[@thebrotherskrynn]

Great retelling of this sad tale of the death of kings.... none could have done so great a job as yourself Yoystan.

[@backwashjoe7864]

@8:13, Prince Earnur to the Witch King, "There's no version of this where you come out on top... yes, your armies have come, and your armies were too much, but its all on you... because if we can't prevent the fall of the petty kingdom of Arthedain, you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it."

[@MenoftheWest]

Hehe 😏

[@Emanon...]

#1 rule of kingship: Appoint an heir. Earnur was a prideful twat

[@Rellana1]

And then Glorfindel and most of Lindon turned up to the battle as well.

[@vikingodin1986]

Stellar video...would you be doing a proper in depth video on the Prince of dol Amroth and its people

[@alanmike6883]

The sheer scale on the attack on arnor should've given it away that a nazgul was in charge and that the Dunedain were being targeted separately

[@turinthalion8784]

This is just about the best campaign of all the Battle for Middle-Earth games!!! A shame they stopped making those games.

[@paulwagner688]

This the a perfect "What If" video: What if Arvedui's claim was recognized and he became King of a reunited Kingdom?

[@AugustusR]

I get the feeling some nobles might have gotten a little unhappy to say the least, whether a civil war erupts or not would depend on Firiel's support amongst the princes of the southern realm and the people of Minas Tirith.

[@Vanoc93]

YES! So Excited to see Grima get a Character History next week!

[@MarionBaggins]

Man what a tale, that ended in ruin. Two Kings were defeated with one stone!!! Thanks, Mellon for how Gondor and Arnor try to Reunite but Lost Their Kings in the process!!! Until Grima Wormtongue's ECH...Marion Baggins Out!!!

[@johnbaker9912]

Well done! The saga of the North kingdom is among my favorite of the legendarium.

[@Thranduil999]

excellent as always!

[@apdarkness3027]

Destiny cannot be discerned by looking forward, it can only be revealed when one looks back, and then it is discovered often that destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. Not a thing to be waited for, but a thing to be achieved.

[@mattfisher368]

Great video as always

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks, great subject

[@abhijitpawar1568]

Great Video! Here is an interesting what if video: What if Arnor remained united and never fell?

[@johndododoe1411]

Then the Shire would have remained a settlement of men, not Hobbits. And the Hibbits would have had nowhere to live after Sauron's forces overran the upper Anduin valley between Greenwood and the Misty Mountains. The two other people's in the valley had other fates, the Rohirrim earned the northern plains of Gondor, renaming them Rohan, and only Beorn's family stayed at the northern end of the valley.

[@random22026]

The Appendices are ESSENTIAL. 🙏🙌👏

[@MountainFisher]

Earnur was a fool and hot head, stopped by Mardil the Good Steward the first time. He loses it and actually rode into what he should have known was a trap and he and his escort were never seen again. Earnur should have challenged the Witch King to meet him halfway and not ride into a stronghold without an army.

[@alanmike6883]

Great general and fighter. Bad king. Kinda reminds me of Robert barathan in got for his hot headiness

[@TarMody]

If Arvedui had been king of Gondor, Arnor's future might have been different.

[@matthewchen3678]

It is incredible that both Gondor and Arnor were in such a prickle, yet they had a solution for one another, and perhaps the War of the Ring may have gone differently, whether in disaster or greater triumphs in arms. However ultimately, after many sorrows and tragedies, the kingdoms were reunited once and again, and happiness was granted to them for at least a while. Once more this was one was likely one of Eru's plans, in order to achieve happiness by the end of the Third Age. Video idea: Thorin and Company VS The Fellowship of the Ring

[@licmir3663]

Odd. I thought that the choice was about the king waiting for the winter to pass to then travel back (the apparent worst choice) or to take ship sent by elves and Gondor (the apparent best choice) and return sooner, but it ended up sinking.

[@TJDious]

No. The choice was a choice of "the Dunedain," not the king.

[@Augustus0802]

5:29 this portrait is from GoT I believe one of Aegon IV mistress. But I understand there’s not a lot of art for the princess of Gondor.

[@Mdetailing]

Great video

[@outsideboxer1448]

he said the thing!

[@kurtschulmeyer1041]

One of the great what is of middle earth!

[@danielcarter837]

Maybe you could do a what if video on what would have happened had Arvedui been the High King. Would The Ring have been destroyed?

[@danielcarter837]

After thinking on it for a bit.... I think if Arvedui had consolidated the remaining Numenorians (likely in Gondor) it eventually would have made it easier for Sauron to destroy the Kingdom of Men. The elves would not have had the numbers or strength to stop it. The Ring would eventually be found and that would have been it. I think they only reason the West won is because of stealth. Sauron thought he had already wiped out his opposition.

[@nathaniellong4281]

I say, you make this your next "what if?" video.

[@varyar77]

I wonder what justification Gondor and Arnor conjured up to deny women the throne?

[@MenoftheWest]

Great question, especially when Númenor before them had allowed women succession.

[@Count.Saruman]

Likely a misinterpretation of the consequences of the Númenórean precedents. For example, loremasters could argue that Tar-Vanimeldë was a lazy ruler, whose slip of control to her husband would eventually lead to the schism in the house of Elros. It could also be misconstrued that Tar-Míriel's usurpation by Ar-Pharazôn could have been a consequence of her lacking the necessary force of character to maintain the throne. Likewise, much of the success of Tar-Telperiën's reign might- by these scholars- be attributed instead to the efforts of her successor, Tar-Minastir.

[@ghostdreamer7272]

Especially since they’re descended from Silmarien, who should have been the first ruling queen

[@AugustusR]

If you look at real world precedents such as the Holy Roman Empire or the French monarchy, which Tolkien most likely had in mind, in truth the princes of Gondor needed no such justification to deny Firiel's claim, for it was for them a simple matter of voting, so to speak, which of the claimants they would swear allegiance to since the usual method of succession, primogeniture, had failed upon the extinction of the main dynastic line. It was the "rule" amongst medieval realms for the kingless lords and princes to settle unclear successions either peacefully, as with Gondor, or through the force of arms. And as yoystan explained, the southern lords were adamant in keeping the crown in Anarion's line, and that was justification enough for them.

[@brentchesson2179]

@@AugustusR I agree with your last point that it really was probably just as simple as "Hey we like you guys up there as friends and cousins but we'll rule ourselves thank you very much.".

[@CG-or1re]

one day this will hopefully be made into a movie. let us pray to manwe that it is not made by amazon

[@thespyingeyeofmordor]

Manwe's an archangel, similar to Gabriel. You're looking for Eru Illuvatar.

[@volcanito5947]

stand and be proud - men of the west!

[@ohhhSmooth]

Hey guys! I have a question on the lore that has been bothering me for some time: We like to assume that the ringwraiths are bound to the one ring and therefore follow its bearer as long as he is powerful enough to use it, right? (e.g. not Frodo) So how come the nine are still under the command of Sauron, if he does not wear the ring, and are willing to bring it back to him? There is no pre-existing connection between Sauron and the Ringwraiths as far as I understand.

[@lynneglendenning947]

As for that Palantir, it is in father's hands.

[@slicerneons3300]

Alas, what could have been. Some.of Evil's greatest success is the Good it prevents. Remain watchful.

[@orrointhewise87]

"I was there the day the strength of men failed" A house devided cannot stand :/ Makes u wonder what would have happened had they got their act together, rallied and fought back together. Had the kings stayed in power Aragorn's life probably would have been very different. 👑

[@Huskytabby]

I love seeing the split images of Arnor because it makes me think of the three Chinese kingdoms, Shu/Wu/Wei :)

[@consumablecorner150]

What if vid thought: Boromir and Faramir went to Rivendell, and were able to get the ring.

[@KinnyRiddle]

What if Arvedui makes a concession and instead presses for his son Aranarth to be king of Gondor first, since he is descended from Anarion's blood via his mother Firiel, and then taking over Arnor/Arthedain as well once Arvedui dies? Might the Gondor Council have relented?

[@michaellutes1057]

I wish you or someone with as much care as you for Tolkien’s work had been given the chance to make the lord of the rings show… then it would have been good, and maybe even great! Hey, with it being now only 20 years till it enters the public domain, would you be interested in planning your own lord of the rings cinematic series?

[@lynneglendenning947]

Well, remember that Aragorn Eleassar is one of the Dunedain.

[@L3ggy]

If only Ëarnur had fathered an heir

[@alanmike6883]

The lost opportunity. Afterall gondor and arnor were brothers.

[@sohanpal7291]

Who are powerful maiar

[@samlivingston4130]

An absolutely ridiculous decision by the Council of Gondor. Had Arvedui's claim been accepted, Arthedain is almost certainly saved and Eriador doesn't fall into ruin and Wilderness. Maybe Earnil could have been given Cardolan to make his own. A reunited Gondor and Arnor, along with Rohan, would make a strong alliance against Sauron.

[@LordTelperion]

I empathize with Gondor’s government rejecting the claim, as it would be like if King Charles tried claiming he’s the king of America again, the USA would laugh in his face.

[@melkhiordarkfell4354]

I kinda have gone off the thrope of long lost hiers, thinking of Oblivion or Legend of Queen Opala. Sure the Emperor has a secret child alive in a rural chapel but they have spend 20 years as a priest, not a state crafter. By all right the kingdom would be better off keeping the ruling Stewart, since his heirs are already well trained and educated on running a country.

[@Count.Saruman]

I can understand being fed up with the trope in general, but that's a misinterpretation of the trope with regards to Tolkien. The dismissal of Arvedui's kingship was made for a justifiable reason, and the stewards are not condemned for it. That aside, even Eärnil who defended Gondor against the East was eventually crowned king by the reigning steward. However effective a steward may be, the people of Gondor have a special attachment to the king due to the workings of their society, and require one to unite behind. As for Aragorn, it was a special case where Denethor was driven to despair. While once wise and heroic, his battle of wills with Sauron left him drained and in no fit state to rule. The choice was then between Aragorn and Faramir, and between those two Aragorn would be more effective as a ruler if he were king than Faramir would as a steward. This is because Aragorn spent his childhood in Rivendell specifically preparing to take up the mantle of kingship, and spent years in disguise as 'Thorongil' to truly understand his future kingdom and his people. He was uniquely well-suited to the kingship as a result.

[@melkhiordarkfell4354]

@@Count.Saruman Well I wasn't really talking about Tolkien, since Aragorn is also qualified to rule as well has being the long lost hier, I just mean in general the trope is a bit silly.

[@Count.Saruman]

@@melkhiordarkfell4354 I don't know of any examples in good fiction where an unprepared ruler who replaces an experienced caretaker actually turns out well. When I usually see this done, it's played with because it ultimately turns out badly. Tolkien is an exception because both Arvedui and Aragorn had good reasons for their status as superior claimant.

[@arturleperoke3205]

From the ease with which the realms of the North and South accepted Aragorn as their King we see that LotR is a fiction too good to be true ^^ (I´m looking at you, byzantine history)

[@jamess7576]

You call achieving victory at Helm's Deep, marshalling the oath breakers, defeating the corsairs, leading the reinforcements to win the day at Pelanor, heal the Steward, and then march of to the black gate and come back easy? Yeah a man who has done all that would be a shoe in. Though I will give you that in the Eastern Roman Empire someone would have screwed it up.

[@arturleperoke3205]

@@jamess7576 Western and eastern rome had fantastic emperors and yet this did not help. There was always someone who wanted a big piece of the cake (or the whole cake). Usurpation and civil war was a national sport - that´s what I meant

[@concept5631]

260 views in 15 minutes

[@TJDious]

Yeah... Gondor chose poorly.

[@yodaslovetoy]

Did they try looking down the back of the sofa? Works for me when I lose something....

[@MenoftheWest]

LOL