How I CURRENTLY Understand The Bible Saying "Women Be Silent In The Church"

[@MikeWinger]

I know this topic brings up a TON of good questions but I will tackle those when I do my big teaching on everything the Bible says about women in ministry a few months from now.

[@pilgrimsluggage9878]

• May I know if biblically, it is appropriate for women to lead parachurch organization. • (I have heard lately that Matthew 18:20 is for church context.) What are your thoughts about it?... When it says two or three are gathered in my name. When we take 1 Corinthians 14:34-37 and 1 Timothy 2:11-14, does it apply to christian fellowships which is not a local church ??? • Is translating the preaching... towards a different language amidst church allowed according to the topic by women? • Should women teach doctrine to women and children + boys? • Can women train men professional or corporately? • Apart from prayer, what should a woman who sees her husband in erroneous doctrine do ? (Even e.g. a close friend or a family member)

[@gracepeace487]

Good because I’m really struggling about my female pastor!

[@Zichronot]

As I've understood this, it's that a woman is not to interrupt .Obviously women had prophecies and spoke them in church. So it's a certain type of speech. It is a woman to her husband perhaps combined with interruption in church. She is told to go home and ask. If I am remembering correctly, women weren't inclined to speak and question a man that wasn't their husband. I understand they are now Christian, but tradition is strong and runs deep. I Can see a Jewish woman holler at her husband. I'm not distressed if it means to be quiet. Because I know something is off, God doesn't play games of superiority between men and women, husbands and wives. †

[@S.P.E.F.M]

Hi Mike 👋 Good work with your opinion and vid 👍 I am a love in Christ-ian I am guided by the Holy Spirit... And I'm lead to share edification, For such men who are chauvinistic as for those who take verses out of context where such men usually falsely refer for as if all women ... " to keep silent " The reason for such verses was for specific women to be silent in reference to 1 Timothy 4: 7 have nothing to do with /reject profanity and old wives fables ( man or woman ) who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all > (men & women) prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all (the church's > people) of the saints. 39 Therefore brethren> (Brothers & Sisters), desire earnestly to prophesy, ^^^ and do not forbid (any) to speak... in tongues, of fire sent from God ... Chivalry is wonderful for men to protect women is righteous. Yet , none should be following such misleading stance for any to unjustly spew stating of lowering the authority of women !!! Almighty God guides and shares with his ordained chosen church > people those being brethren > (brothers & sisters ) . Men and women If you would like to reply I will be patiently waiting to hear from you Thank you for reading, in the mean time Sending ... Lots and Love From Wisdom xox 🤗 xox ...

[@edensmith7757]

Thanks Pastor Mike! I have been waiting for years for to do a long-form teaching on this!

[@megan7792]

As a woman the further I get in my faith journey the more beautiful I find these passages. I was taught to be a strong woman, and I believe it takes a strong woman to be a gentle, quiet spirit with self control. Women can often be argumentative and stubborn. I find myself the most at peace and close to God when I’m fulfilling the roles he sets in the Bible.

[@Kanon-fq5fh]

Your mind was enlightened by the Holy Spirit to grasp such things and to marvel at the beauty of God’s word

[@biblestudyhour8868]

He is awesome.✝️❤️

[@tylerbrown5478]

Good for you, but you must understand not all women feel the same as you do. Not all women will be happy in a relationship where they submit to their husband.

[@joyceperry3729]

Mega, I think you said it best. Our strength as women is to hold fast teachings of Christ. We have a larger role to fill then leading a church. We are to lead the family by nurturing them in the ways of the Lord. As a Sunday School teacher for many years I felt my desire to be part of my Church was fulfilled by continuing to nurture young people in ways of the Lord.

[@biblestudyhour8868]

Women should be submissive to their husbands. And a husband should be tender and devoted to his wife.

[@bloodsweatphilp4310]

When it comes to submitting to a husband, I'm being very careful when choosing who I marry. I want to fill our biblical roles, so I need to choose someone fully committed to God.

[@theangryape8395]

Yes I must wait to find a man in 2021 to fill the role set forth in a 2000 year old book when men took virgins as sex slaves.

[@ZacharyPackard0976]

@@theangryape8395 lol May god bless you

[@B.S._Lewis]

Guess what? People change throughout their life. A guy who you may be ok "submitting" to one day may not be the same guy later on. And the Bible does not permit divorce for any reason except sexual immorality. Not physical or emotional abuse or if he becomes a serial killer or anything else.

[@GhostofFranky]

@@B.S._Lewis then it isn’t for you. You will perish with the rest

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@GhostofFranky What isn't for me? I don't even know what your talking about.

[@youbloodybloodworktimejasper]

When i was a nonbeliever I was a loud, prideful, obnoxious woman. I wish i was born with the knowledge that silence is powerful. Silent can stop a fight in its tracks. Silence can save a marriage or a friendship or even your job or your life. Silence is a true gift. controlling our tongues is wise and takes a lot of self discipline

[@nedson6503]

So can speaking up.

[@carlosreira413]

Well said, sister DT. "If anyone can control the tongue, that one is perfect..."

[@youbloodybloodworktimejasper]

@@nedson6503 Yes. But when it’s appropriate. That’s also hard to do!!

[@TheExpressionaire]

Silence has also led to multiple abuses in the Church, because "women cannot question the men."

[@carlosreira413]

@@TheExpressionaire Sister Sarah, excellent point!!! If we had an Apostle here to make final pronouncements, then I say let the women learn from their husbands. But in the contemporary American Neo-Calvinist Congregationalist Evangelical Pastor-dominant Church model, I say let ANYONE who knows better than the Pastor stand UP.

[@Youtubedeceased]

Proverbs 31:26-27 She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.

[@rosethorns1893]

The enemy preys on our weaknesses. Pride being the first. My grandfather was a humble man that loved and trusted Christ above all. Because of this, he was the wisest man I have ever encountered in this physical life. He valued my grandmother’s opinions and strengths. He trusted her with those things he saw she was good at. He had no problems giving her his entire paycheck for her to manage. She made excellent and wise decisions with that money. I won’t go into the details but she brought the entire family very far. On the other hand, my grandfather would intercede and correct her when she did something he knew wasn’t the best way to deal with something. I never heard them argue in my life. He was never threatened by allowing her to have a voice or to contribute. I run into Christian men these days that are so pride filled that they believe that their wife needs to be silent and listen to them on everything. That devalues the wife and shows that he does not submit himself to the wisdom of our Father.

[@azophi]

Yup! This is why dialogue is great. (Like maybe we should take women’s interpretations of prophecy and … their opinions in church matters and stuff into account) Definitely like do dialogue tho and don’t just let 1 person make all the choices. A healthy relationship happens when people make choices together, occasionally with compromise as needed. 😊

[@rommelbongcal5430]

I think in the home, it's a different story but in my humble opinion.. if we are to observe a proper church decorum, it's best to follow what the bible says..

[@rommelbongcal5430]

@@Habanera1986 good point Sir, but rule is a rule, everyone must submit to it.. yes King's wife might be very high minded, but for sure she is not smarter than the omniscient God who made such mandate.. and also, nobody said, women cannot speak or they must not have a voice or say in anything, yes they can, in fact it's only in the CHURCH women are to keep silent.. other places they can do whatever they want provided it they don't violate good morals.

[@countryboyred]

I mostly see women that want to domineer their husbands.

[@rommelbongcal5430]

@@Habanera1986 Sorry Mam...well, if you find any good info about the subject please do mention me, it will really be interesting..God bless you..

[@alisachilders]

Great answer, Mike. Looking forward to your upcoming teaching on this...

[@graceharang7098]

Me too!!

[@BrotherDave80]

Alisa you have some really great videos too! I appreciate what you out forth

[@aprilm3453]

Me too!

[@alanhales239]

Alisa Childers, for the Biblical truth, see my reply to Mike.

[@una3204]

Alisa, and my other brothers and sisters who are also looking forward to this teaching - let’s uphold Mike in prayer as he prepares for this important teaching. I’m greatly moved by God to pray for him on this matter. God bless 😊💕

[@Leah-fw5kn]

Hey just wanted to say that I owe you an apology.....I was a Jehovah Witness for 30 years, I'm out now. I struggle with being "judgemental" from being in a cult, a few videos ago, I cast you off as an "idiot" for something you said. I was WRONG!!!!!! I AM SORRY FOR THINKING THAT IN MY HEART. I actually like you and Leighton Flowers the most, I appreciate your hard work you put into your videos, I am learning a lot and hopefully will grow in understanding the gospel. Your videos help me. God bless you and your ministry.

[@Three721]

God bless you💕

[@sarahfaith316]

@Leah Praise God, sister! Thank you for openly sharing. I'm Pastor Mike's assistant and I'll send him your message directly so that he sees it. ❤️

[@markdonnaabbott3977]

Aww Leah that's so beautiful praise God for His steadfast love for you xox I love hearing these testimonies. And God will use your JW past for His glory you wait and see 😁You'll have a bit of a challenge with the mind. But do not worry! Just keep turning toward Christ and the Holy Spirit and He'll teach you all things. Don't worry if you don't understand it all now just keep washing your mind with His word and know you're in the palm of His Wonderful Hands.God bless you x 👏🌈❤️🙌

[@carlosreira413]

Sister Leah, good word of repentance, God love you, and remember to go EASY on yourself. There's grief, there's anger. 30 years is a life sentence. Support those who struggle. Find any common ground. They name the name of Jesus, at least many do. Your experience will be of great use to the Kingdom and the Lord will use you to destroy the wall of partisanship. You are a HOLY of HOLIES woman of God.

[@sarahfaith316]

@meaningless me He's not able to respond to all of the comments, as we receive thousands, but he did see Leah's. I'm his assistant and I sent it to him directly. He was very grateful and said, "That's wonderful! So happy for Leah!"

[@rickyhurtado]

"Her submission is intentional." Man, I really love that. It adds value and makes me want to thank my wife in every instance she defers to me for leadership. I acknowledge that her 'submission' is a gift and absolutely conditional, not to be taken for granted.

[@glitcherers8004]

No don't be just tell her shut up women😂😂

[@DivineLightPaladin]

​@@glitcherers8004seek Jesus and repent.

[@glitcherers8004]

@@DivineLightPaladin u really live in ur fantasy land

[@mogx2586]

​@@glitcherers8004So why does it matter so much to you?

[@glitcherers8004]

@@mogx2586 people's rights matter to me

[@curtissmith1192]

We as followers of CHRIST need to know that GOD overall is the head of the household and when their is a decision that needs to be made, we as men need to go to CHRIST with it at all times. If the head of the household is not grounded in CHRIST, it can cripple the family.

[@justchilling704]

Very true, I find Mikes view there a bit bad actually, and I hardly ever disagree with him. What if a man decides to force his kids to eat vegan but the mother wants them to eat animal products if they want? That’s not something that the dad alone should be able to decide.

[@justchilling704]

@@dianeovenden That’s just it, when it comes to diet the man doesn’t get the final decision, that’s something that requires mutual compromise, if my dad tries to make me vegan it just wouldn’t happen lol. Veganism is not healthy for anyone but especially not children and teens, so in all honestly if a mother was against it, she’d be she’d be right. Veganism is not legal for children in Italy for a reason. Now I’m not saying men shouldn’t lead just that some things are a matter at a compromise.

[@michaellathrop3640]

Cite your scripture

[@doubtingthomas4335]

Isn’t it funny that many Christians believe the God made us vegetarian originally and not just humans but all animals, as many people believe there could be no death before the fall. Apparently as a result of the fall all carnivores teeth structure change from molars to shearing teeth. Must have been quite painful

[@curtissmith1192]

@@justchilling704 I did not say his statement was a bad one. I am saying that all in all GOD is the head and when the man submits to GOD, everything will fall in place.

[@schmaingd]

Having gone the way of a "strong woman" as defined by society and walked the Biblical role of a woman it's clear to me that we have undervalued the Biblical role of women and womanhood. Our strength and value as women is degraded when we define it against manhood or frame it as needing to be the same as men. Womanhood is amazing yet we loose it's meaning away from God's wisdom in it's design to the point when now all one needs to be a woman is a dress and makeup. Jesus submitted, was he less valuable or weaker for doing so?

[@saradauchiha7112]

Thank you jesus! Wow!

[@staza1]

Wow

[@kyritsitonakis5802]

Thankyou for sharing your personal testimony of what Yeshua [Jesus] has and is accomplishing in your life. I want to encourage you to continue to be a voice in the wilderness. So many still need to hear the true Gospel - the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven [Rev 21:4] that they might come to the full understanding and knowledge of the YHWH [God's] eternal plan of redemption....this is the mystery and why it has been held back - including Israel's [YHWH's "chosen" people - Deut 7] "failure" - Eph 3. The New Covenant will usher in the New Kingdom, however for today and right now, that is a lot for most believers let alone unbelievers to comprehend.... And so the lost need testimonies [like yours] of the saving work of the atonement - to come to see that true righteousness, true holiness, true faithfulness can only be found in Yeshua... Continue to LOVE [yes its an action - verb] with meekness and gentleness and know that the power and authority lies in the one who is in you... Shalom

[@MMJ501]

Jesus submitted to God! Women can’t simply just submit to men who are unworthy. Makes no sense. I have a hard time understanding this, aren’t men and women creations of God? Why can’t we both submit to God. The moment we say things like submit to a fellow creation (men), that creation (men) is superior? Humbling and submission to god is beautiful. To men? I’d like to be seen as equal to men, compatible to be say the least! We are different but not lesser. Sorry I’m having a hard time coming to terms with this. Help

[@joannepranata9405]

Biblical woman are strong not weak like society paints it to be, kindness is strong

[@lamartz11]

I am a woman and in no way did I find this offensive. Right on Mike Winger!

[@patmelton43]

Do you find sex traffickiing offensive? I hope so because I am finding that is in the church as well. God is exposing this awful stuff.

[@patmelton43]

I don't want the job of preaching, but my mother-in-law was called to preach. This was years and years ago. In East Texas. She refused to preach because people did not want her to. She became bedridden with illness and God told her He would heal her but He said He wanted her to preach. She finally obeyed and her husband put her in a wagon and took her to a school house where she was to preach. God restored her health. But only after she obeyed Him -- not people, not men who told her not to preach. That is why I stand for anyone obeying God. I have the scriptures for it: Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:15. We ought to obey God rather than man.

[@jennprescott2757]

@@patmelton43 everyone here agrees that sex trafficking is awful and we would wholeheartedly condemn it.

[@patmelton43]

@@jennprescott2757 Glad to hear that. I am zealous to bring these terrible crimes to light.

[@jennprescott2757]

@@patmelton43 definitely!! In what ways are you involved in doing that? Would love to be more involved as well!

[@rhianonthomas4421]

'Read it in context!'. So good. And what a lovely, gracious spirit you have sir.

[@raymondblake5765]

What is the utility of a bible that can so easily be taken out of context? Why can't an omniscient God inspire writings that cannot be so easily taken out of context?

[@noellemoeckel4243]

@@raymondblake5765 I believe it’s so that we read the Holy Spirit inspired text (the Bible) with seeking Him to help us understand it and even to apply it. It’s sometimes a mystery that He wants to have us uncover with Him. He wants us to pursue a Relationship with Him not a religion (set of rules). If he spelled everything out completely we wouldn’t need to seek Him and His wisdom.

[@raymondblake5765]

@@noellemoeckel4243 what does it mean to 'have a relationship with him'. Every person I have ever had a relationship with, they were physically there. I could see and touch them. They said stuff to me. I said stuff to them... But you can't see God, you can't hear God... So what does a relationship even mean? Do you actually have a vision or something? Do you hear his voice, like an actual auditory sound? Or is it more like you get a strong feeling of his presence? Please explain.

[@robertpreisser3547]

Has anyone looked at this passage from the point of view of the husband? Specifically, why is it that Paul says the woman is supposed to ask her HUSBAND at home? If the husband is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household, and yet is failing in that duty, and the wife is left needing to ask questions in the Church, then how does that reflect on his performing his assigned role? I think this passage is in part at least intending to reaffirm the role of the husband and to hold him accountable for being the spiritual head of the household. If the husband is truly submitted to Christ, and is truly feeding himself, when the wife has questions she ought to be able to go to her husband and ask, outside of the service. And if the husband can’t answer, he can go to the elders and teachers for clarification. Doing all of this in front of the whole church short circuits that whole process, and does not let the husband grow in his role or learning or knowledge or leadership.

[@okaycola2]

Great point! Hadn’t considered that but clearly this is the implied reason for the public silence

[@lovethyneighbor9476]

Love this point of view. I agree!

[@DS-zo8xs]

That is very well said. That's actually the best answer I've heard. Makes the most sense across all generations too. The Bible has answers for any period of time. So when I come across some of these explanations it usually only works for one period of time and I'm left wondering. But your explanation is spot on for both then and now.

[@timmyalley6621]

That makes sense to me

[@pj9654]

If married women are to keep silent with their questions in church so as not to embarrass their husbands among the congregation, when will the husband ever be held accountable for this failure? If married women must defer to their husband, and their husband never grows in the faith enough to teach sound doctrine, is the wife supposed to be left without knowing sound doctrine and no recourse? Married women should encourage and respect their husbands, yes and should not embarrass them publicly. But what would happen in the church if MEN took their role as spiritual leader in their homes seriously enough to truly lead, instead of what looks to be blaming their wives for public embarrassment for their genuine lack of leadership. So this seems backwards a bit. Also, are single women allowed to ask questions? I only see this verse referring to married women.

[@BrickbyBrick4U]

Having a godly man that honors and loves you as Christ loves the church to lead you...what a beautiful, wonderful thing. Takes a lot of undue pressure out of us women. Less stress...a wonderful thing indeed.

[@tylersoto7465]

I can only fall and be in love of a woman unless u a deep emotional and friendship bond with her after I known her for a while

[@dougsmith9352]

That's the key

[@joannepranata9405]

And the woman can use her kindness and skills to strengthen her family 🤗

[@bible1st]

Actually i find it interesting and of you notice both Peter and Paul always start out addressing the wives first! In the passages about marriage. I find this unusual. There must be a reasoning behind it.

[@doris2793]

Nope... guys need to be in a responsible position in order to grow up otherwise it simply does not happen... that is the point. To the same degree, women need to learn how to be a team player with her husband and everyone else because by nature women are not good at comradery. These are the only reasons why these roles make sense isn't because one is more important than the other but that both sides need to grow up and work together.

[@NMDecember1]

As a woman prior to becoming a Christian I would of found this offensive but I don't now as the Word of God is the Word of God even if I don't agree or fully understand it. I've no problems with women not being preachers as I believe God set the order Adam then Eve. I'm sure this is a difficult topic to teach on but let us remember there are many other way to serve God and others. God bless from Dublin, Ireland 🇮🇪

[@NMDecember1]

@Paddy Singh Will do thank you. Are you Irish too, well your first name sounds Irish 🤔😉.

[@patmelton43]

I know women who were literally forced by God to preach. My husband's mother for one. She was sick in bed and God commanded her to preach and once she was persuaded to do so, God healed her. There is scripture to support this: Acts 2:15 and Joel 2:28.

[@derekevans498]

@@patmelton43 you’re mentioning verses about prophesy. Prophesy and the pastoral role are entirely different gifts. Gods Word is clear that women should not be lead pastors and He will not contradict his Word if we truly believe it is inerrant

[@krixpop]

@Paddy Singh yes, and ?

[@jpsatre]

Its actually not anti women. Read it in context.

[@danarn209]

I happened to stumble onto this video in 2024, and I'm so happy I did! I'll never forget the time I heard a preacher say women should not speak in the church. I was a teen at the time. I looked at my dad, and he said I know, we will talk after. And this being in the Bible has been something in the back of my mind. (I've also seen stuff online saying that there are no women in Heaven bc it says we will be like Christ was when he was resurrected.) And honestly, I decided that I don't have the need to speak in the church, but I also have not been at a church sermon in a very long time and planning to find one in the town I live in. But, also, I've been watching the Chosen and see that women were very important. And that maybe the speaking in church was bc women just had a different role in the church, like teaching Bible school, or perhaps it's helping care for the babies and children bc it comes natural to us usually. Hearing this explanation does not make me feel remotely oppressed. The concern of making women feel less than bc of the text of the Bible feels like it's done a greater disservice to women overall. Being mothers and all the great things about how we are naturally is being watered down, and it does not appear that is making things better. But it does make total sense to not start interrogating or questioning during church. I an attempt to keep this under novel length, thank you for this explanation!

[@crystalvulpine2314]

You're assuming everyone is married

[@DreamingDarlin]

The Chosen seems to be putting words into Jesus' mouth and adding certain personailties to the apostles which is disturbing to me and yet I've heard that the show has strengthened other's faith.

[@destinycoach5]

@@DreamingDarlin adding personality and storylines to the apostles does NOT CHANGE the gospel one bit

[@danarn209]

@destinycoach5 I agree. Actually, showing the everyday human side, with different personalities and issues makes it easier to relate to. The gospel doesn't change if a character that is based on a real person has little quirks here and there. That's what brings people in, looking at imperfect people just like us.

[@destinycoach5]

@@danarn209 I agree with the added back stories of disciples otherwise there would be no story here. We've seen disciples in other Jesus movies and they are nearly scenery. There has to be creative license taken and at least Dallas has used Jewish historians for accuracy on 1st cent Israel and how their jobs would be done. I also love that we get to SEE the Jewish culture and feasts and the way synagogues were run for this also makes that world more real to us and Jesus was an OT Jew and was immersed in the culture. So it's good to see. Having said that ... I have warned since day 1 that we will see more and more things off scripture because of the Mormon influence. Like Jesus said I AM THE LAW OF MOSES. He DIDNT say that and this is a Mormon belief. But the Things Jesus says will be more blasphemous as show goes on. But the thing he does now that drives me absolutely nuts is his hand signals. They are most obviously of the secret society knights templer. When he is talking about 'his Father' he points to the sky using 1 or 2 fingers. This is baphomet!!!! Baphomet has one hand with 2 fingers pointing up and other down. The show did it on the Sermon and many times in his private conversation with disciples I HATE it so much!!!!

[@car807]

The first time I read these verses (and other verses about the roles of men and women) I was offended. I only came to Christ and started reading the bible a year ago, and I really didn't know what to make of it. I knew Christianity was true, but I had serious doubts about these verses and didn't know what to do. I prayed about it for a few days, asking God to help me. And He did! One morning I woke up, feeling totally at peace and accepting these verses. I'm not offended anymore by the different roles of men and women and God did another amazing job changing my heart.

[@carlosreira413]

Excellent teaching, sister C82, (year of the dog, btw, loyalty!). Here in the KZbin arena, where two or three thousand are gathered together, amen? I bless you and your household of faith with revelation and peace and joy and healing and every good thing in Christ Jesus according to this promise of His holy word: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you AND your house." (Acts 16:31) (Remember the Passover. The Lord will give you wisdom, which is your gift, btw.)

[@davesawe5346]

Wow awesome. If the Holy spirit changes us we will accept his word.

[@Clairsmith123]

Amen!!

[@cynthialopez4485]

I'm a female. I don't have a submissive personality. The way I see it, is that God's Word is His Word. I don't always agree, however, if I love Him, then I have to obey Him. I don't have to understand or agree, but I do need to obey Him...if I truly love God Almighty. My ways are not His ways. Over 20 years ago, I heard God's voice, He said submit to your husband. I said " God, I can't do that... I'm an American. We don't submit to our husbands". I didn't do it. I heard His voice one more time. Then, He showed me how my dominant behavior would put my husband to shame in front of other men. I had never noticed it before. I love my husband, so I felt very ashamed and I didn't want that to ever happen again. Our marriage did 100 degree turnaround for the better. I now understand the importance of giving my husband his place as the head of our family. His is my covering. I'm very happy. We have to trust God. We may not understand His rules, but they are for the best.

[@mistweety25]

I feel you. I'm the same way I don't have a submissive personality either. But reading the word and building my relationship better with God. I'm learning that I'm letting my pride take over instead of God's word. When a woman preaches for me, I don't feel nothing. I can agree to somethings they say, but I feel nothing spiritual. That's why I say everybody that's in the pulpit wasn't called by God. Because soon as you let your feelings into it, then you're not following God. The truth hurts. And this cotton candy or political correct preaching is helping to destroy the church.

[@tpham7632]

I was a submissive type and then my partner was not following God and lying a lot. I called him out. He talked down to me in front of others. It turned me 180 and I spoke out because he was waiting on his living parents inheritance and not supporting me and our son. He is drama. I can't do it. I can't even be around him. He doesn't love me and I do not love him anymore. It's all fluff.

[@rachellejones1361]

Thank you, kind sister, for sharing this beautiful experience. It is sometimes so easy to think about things from the perspective of how something/someone effects us rather than how are we effecting others. When we love someone, it means that we care about them and what we give to them much more than what we are given from them. It seems that most have chosen to forget that. WITH MUCH LOVE

[@lookingatdaisies9901]

No one has a submissive personality, or in the way you are describing it, would you describe your husband as having a submissive personality because Christ is his head? Or because he had to submit to church elders or the government? Submission is not a personality, it's what you do for to help leadership in their work to safeguard the group. Both authority and those under it in a group have to play their part in safeguard and keeping watch over the group. Hebrews 13:17

[@lookingatdaisies9901]

​@@tpham7632Hebrews 13:17 tells you what submission is to help designated leaders with their work. Their work is to keep watch over the people as they will be held accountable by God. So ungodly and things done in personal interest by human authority is not biblically mandated. Submit to God's design when human authority isn't doing their job. Think of your home as a little Government, and yourself a citizen. Would your husband stand for it if the government treated him as a citizen, the same way he treats you? They know the boundaries of authority when it endangers them, but suddenly when it comes to wives and children, men and parents don't know where to draw the line anymore.

[@user-fn4gy8fq6x]

Thank you, Mike, for always standing for biblical truth even when it is counter to present day culture/societal beliefs.

[@marquetteblair3663]

Amen Amen

[@duckie.louise]

I appreciated this! Gotta say though that I genuinely don’t understand your dismay at the idea of no one having the final call. In 15 years of marriage, the final call has always been “okay good we have come to an agreement” 🤷🏻‍♀️.

[@lulujordaan1103]

If I look at what that verse says, just my perception as a woman, when it says this, means that men should sharpen up their knowledge of the Word, so that woman and children can feel protected by the husband and father by answering their questions in the context of the Word. Men submit themselves to God and women to their husbands, which is also a submission to God. I believe that if we got this right from the start, more children would have had the ⚓ of a father figure in this day and age. Every word in the Bible is for edification of the church, otherwise the Word could have been chopped and changed any which way and we know how that can end. Just my own thoughts on this. ❤️

[@MyLearner1]

Was Deuteronomy 6 given to the mother or to the father?

[@carlosreira413]

Well argued, sister Lulu. Amazing how good of a teacher you are! I'm glad you didn't keep that to yourself. Keep sharing. The Church is now out in the open, no longer confined to the Synagogue!

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@@MyLearner1 To all ancient Isreal, males and females. The one who is asked to submit MUST have faith in the other, including in their decision making capabilites.

[@mathewjose4753]

If you look at genesis, you can clearly see that GOD COMMANDED ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO HIS WIFE AND DO WHAT SHE SAYS BECAUSE SHE WAS A GREATER PROPHET THAN ABRAHAM.

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@@mathewjose4753 IN what scripture?

[@defiance1790]

I was in the Navy. Could you imagine if one of us sailors questioned and probed the Captain as he was addressing the crew and giving orders? Submitting is a process of order and discipline that is necessary for cohesion. The military needs it, businesses need it, families need it, and churches need it.

[@tylerbrown5478]

@Loving one another finally someone who isn't brainwashed. These people are literally telling me it's harder for women to make decisions so they should let the man do it like what????

[@doubtingthomas4335]

The difference with the analogy Taripar is this, women can be captains and men can be sergeants. According to the Bible women are never allowed to teach men, there is a lack of opportunity. How you define equality is important.

[@defiance1790]

@@doubtingthomas4335 Except…. You’re wrong. There was a woman apostle and Paul clearly recognized women prophesying in the church. You obviously didn’t watch Mike Winger explain women being church leaders in the video.

[@doubtingthomas4335]

@@defiance1790 1Tim 2:11-12. Then there is contradiction in the Bible

[@defiance1790]

@@doubtingthomas4335 That verse is specifically about a husband, not the church. Some are translated as “man”, but they typically have notes as “husband/man”. It’s true, Christian marriage has an order of hierarchy, just as Christ will always be above man.. and God the Father above Him. Its not like a Christian woman is forced to marry. She chooses to submit herself to the mans authority or she can choose not to… just like I could have chosen to not go into the military. I could have chosen to not got to college. I could have chosen to not have a job.

[@bert-cq3ij]

Before I met my wife, 40+ years ago, she was a horribly battered "wife" as were her 2 kids that I later adopted. To submit to him would be insanity and it nearly destroyed our kids. Both now, as adults, have PTSD from the trauma of seeing their mother beaten repeatedly...they fear most "authority" but learned a different love and leadership from me...refuse to see or communicate with their bio-dad. The ex has now even done prison time for beating his 2nd wife and recently tried to kill her. We have to discern and not blindly obey when something seem a bit out of balance. One size doesn't always fit all.

[@Gravy314]

The command is to submit to husbands “as to the Lord.” She would have no obligation to submit to anything abusive, unlawful, ungodly or that would endanger her children.

[@bjrgstre-mauger5398]

​@Gravy314 I think the key is "as to the Lord"...if it is sin, if it violates any commandment of Jesus, we do not submit. We do not rebel but we submit to our Lord first and foremost. The need to be led by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to navigate this

[@nicolelakra]

Egalitarianism does not mean “sameness in every regard.” Maybe someone would say that. But, I find myself more egalitarian and I would never say “sameness.” I would say equal, but different. I would also say the Bible was written addressing specific issues and in a society that devalued women. We have to read the scriptures humble and sensitive to that. There is a created order. Man came first. And, then woman. But, also in God’s created order: All humanity (men included) comes from woman. It is inauthentic to not acknowledge this reciprocal. Equal, but different. Man and woman exist in a symbiotic way in God’s created order. Equal, but different. Hence, why I have become more egalitarian. I think when we do come across these scriptures, we have to dig deep into the immediate context, into the context of God’s entire inerrant Word, and into the culture in which it was written. We also have to be humble enough to be wrong. Thankfully, our salvation is not dependent on anything except for the perfect sacrifice of Jesus.

[@boopsnootandboogie]

Well said

[@snsmystic]

But your definition of "egalitarianism" meets the description of complementarian.... I've always identified myself as an egalitarian but hearing Mike's description convinced me that my values are actually complementarian, I have just been using the wrong adjective for it. egalitarianism seems to be that women and men are different sexes but can hold the same roles - be it housemaker, have careers, etc. Complementarian - women and men have different roles and equally valued.

[@coopermay2210]

Complementarianism is, by definition, different but equal. When speaking in terms of the church and Christian theology, egalitarianism is referring to the theological position that men and women have no differences, specifically in regard to their holding of roles. It’s not the same as the word egalitarian which means equal. Complementarian is referring to the theological position that men and women are equal in value and essence, but that there IS a difference in roles especially within church leadership.

[@coopermay2210]

@Loving one another I’m sorry if my comment offended or upset you in any way, that was not my intention at all. I was simply trying to explain the difference between 2 Christian theological terms to a fellow believer. I’m having difficulty in trying to write a reply to your message, as I didn’t say or even imply any of the things that you wrote. I did not say women are feeling entitled, and I don’t see how what I said would hurt women at all, unless misused by someone with a desire to put women down. I don’t believe I spoke for women or claimed to, nor did I say that the difference in roles was for women to be subservient and men dominant, I simply stayed there was a difference in roles. In Christianity we are all called to serve each other and see the needs of others as more important than our needs, regardless of gender. Again, I’m sorry if my comment made you upset in any way, but I did not say or imply any of the things you have accused me of. I would love to continue a discussion with you about this topic, but if you’re going to insult me and put words into my comments, then I don’t think that benefits anyone.

[@jennprescott2757]

@Nicole Lakra So you're a complimentarian.

[@odec1831]

Almost at 300k! Incredible what God’s doing through this ministry

[@Phobos1483]

This is exactly what is needed.

[@elizabeths5896]

Woo! Whooo!

[@MyLearner1]

Are many followers an indication that real service is taking place?

[@odec1831]

@@MyLearner1 I would say so! It’s a possible indication but not a necessary one.

[@frankstanley8499]

🤢🤮

[@genpro65]

You’re encouraging me to “study “ more…as if I need more reasons…but thank you…for that and your ministry. We need you here…

[@marynoble7941]

This was explained to me that women did not sit with their husbands in church. When a woman had a question she would yell the question across the church causing disruption. Therefore women were told to be quiet in church and take the question home and discuss it with her husband not disrupting the service.

[@snowbird1381]

I’m so glad you said this because I was wondering what the context was. Context matters.

[@ZandJ12345]

I’ve heard that too but haven’t seen any evidence for it. You got any evidence? It seems to me that Paul woudn’t of written it the way he did if he meant “don’t call out in church and disrupt it.”

[@katel7309]

I agree. You have to take in culture /society back then and then draw out the spiritual truth that Paul or other is trying to get across. The letter of the law kills but the Spirit gives life

[@marynoble7941]

@ZandJ12345 I don't currently have evidence but you can bet I am researching it. 🙂

[@Crosshair84]

@@ZandJ12345 Search online for the article, "The Early Church Tradition of Separate Seating: Ancient Practice, Not a Cultural Anomaly" Separate seating for men and women, as a sign of chastity, was a common Jewish practice long before Christianity and this practice was carried over into Christianity.

[@habibdebly3501]

I love that you take on such difficult passages and don’t try to candy coat it. Thank you for all your effort!

[@maggiesalle2256]

Mr. Winger, thank you for the analysis and proper tone. You are one of few that cares enough to do that. Thank you again.

[@infjjedi3335]

I’m a strong female and I’m cool with it. Like paul said you’re missing it if offense is a females take on it. Get over it. We all have roles. Do your duty. We are bondservants of Christ. Period. Get over your feelings. Jesus held women as equals in EVERY WAY. Thank you Mike for having a spine and sticking to scripture instead of always worrying if women or men will be offended. If someone is offended by the word of God that’s between their heart and God. Doesn’t change his word.

[@defiance1790]

Correct me if I’m wrong but as a strong and independent female, doesn’t that just encourage you to find an even more strong and independent man? I’ve noticed, Women who have this kind of strength typically find a man who complements their own strength and that they can respect and submit to even more. They end up becoming an amazing power couple that even other men feel blessed when under a business-like authority of the wife.

[@mathewjose4753]

There are many female prophets in the Bible and one of them was even greater than Abraham himself. That is enough to prove that God also wants Women to participate major roles in the Church

[@KW-hs2pn]

@@mathewjose4753 except the role of a Pastor/Bishop

[@magriffing3497]

Oh he did?

[@piezoelectric1]

Says the religion that has had to be fought every step of the way to gain any advancement for women and whose hierarchy consists of only those among us with testicles.

[@reapthewhirlwind4166]

Always wonder why 11 women were hanged in the town of Salem (Danvers )back in the 1600s. The men were most likely fully in charge of that community. My Baptist Church went through a split a few years back. The deacons were arguing among themselves they were all men. Yet a lot of the blame was put on their wives who were accused of being subversive.

[@LibiaTorres-l5f]

Targeting individuals isn't godly. Many people who have spent a lifetime doing that to me have come to an ungodly end. You don't get away with your lies and abuse in the end!

[@CanadianMonarchist]

Interestingly the accusers at the Salem trial were all female.

[@cindynzjscott9913]

Thank you for speaking truth to our culture. As a woman I agree with you 100%! God loves women and He is so kind to us! My husband loves me and is kind to me too. He makes the final decision and I’m thankful that he does!

[@Thankful305]

You both are blessed-- I am treaded harshly with the utmost distain but he’s quite successful in everything he does -- work, friends, church, everyone thinks he’s wonderful 😢

[@cindynzjscott9913]

I’m sorry for you. God is not fooled. He knows the truth even when others are taken in.

[@Thankful305]

@@cindynzjscott9913 Yes you are correct! He sees ❤️ hearts like we see faces . The impact of living with a “King Saul” has been difficult to endure- I am not even close to being as strong as David was. But I can pray his 35th Psalm 💞

[@plankencriss]

People look at the scripture from a physical standpoint rather then diving in using the Holy Spirit allowing the spirit to open our eyes in a way we never knew it could. When God said to be head of her it doesnt mean be her boss and push her around or have authority, true authority rightly belong to our God because his laws are of love and for us not against us. It actually means to submit himself to her as she submits back. The scripture says to submit yourself to one another in love. The same goes in marriage. God is saying because she is smaller watch over her go head before her protecting her and loving her. We are to put on the fruits of the spirit men and women regardless we are to learn to be as Jesus Christ was which is the fruit of the spirit and in him there was neither male or female. God favors no one. Loves all of us the same he balanced us out in his church but no one is less because of such. God wants mankind to learn to be love and fallow him satan is selfish and wants power and all authority to be his so be very careful men how you take this in! It’s only a place of service not selfishness it isn’t anything to do with us but the God who loves us it’s to learn to walk out of selfishness and pride as well as an ego heart into service men and women should always make the decision final as one unit ❤️ and always put God in the middle of that relationship

[@sotiriosnovatsis4529]

Why does he make the final decision? Are you not capable of making that decision for yourself?

[@cnramsey]

I think it is so important for women to let go of the cultural view of what is good and appropriate for us. When we look at verses like this from the perspective of the world, our first instinct is to be offended.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Well I suppose as myself .. my perspective is I see being a slave. To these beings I have nothing in common with. What so ever.

[@esthersprinkle5797]

Although as a wife and believer of nearly 50 years I’ve never had a problem with those verses, you’ve helped me to actually understand them and now to be equipped to explain the principles to someone who may truly be struggling with them. Thanks so much for your thoughtful and enlightened (by the Holy Spirit) explanation of this passage.

[@michaelemmanuel6431]

Hey dear how are you doing!! I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?

[@kehaulani1467]

Context is so important, as is taking the Bible as a whole. This explanation is so refreshing and so needed. Thank you.

[@zeusssonfire]

Thank you for speaking the truth pastor Mike. I'm moved by all the godly women in the comments who have shared their experiences. Praise God.

[@myrajackson-rain5483]

I am struggling with a lot of the comments, because many of them sound so foreign to the Bible I know and love. As a woman alone with no husband, father, brother, church brethren or anyone to cover and protect and guide me, I have to trust the good men here to remember me in their prayers, if you would all be so kind. I appreciate you... Much love... be safe and blessed...

[@blakeriedel9983]

Will be praying for you Myra!

[@myrajackson-rain5483]

@@blakeriedel9983 Thank you, beloved brother. I am sincerely grateful...

[@bouquetoffood8918]

Myra~ we are never alone becausre Jesus has promised to never leave nor forsake us. Why, may i ask, are you currently out of fellowship?

[@myrajackson-rain5483]

@@bouquetoffood8918 I am gaining clarity and purpose, sanity, back from an abusively torturing narcissistic relationship. It has taken me 4 years just to be able to go out and talk to people face to face again. I trust very little still... Jesus saved me out of that place, and He is everything good in my life... He’s just kinda difficult to hug...thank you for asking...

[@bouquetoffood8918]

@@myrajackson-rain5483 Hi Myra~Thanks for your reply. I will pray for your continued recovery and for strength in the Lord.

[@thefitcookie]

From some of the things I've read about this, the "keeping silent in church" had more to do with social chatting, gossiping, or catching up with friends during a church service. It definitely has to read within context of the time frame, there were probably things happening at the time that we may not be familiar with. One book I read framed the scripture about adornment in the cultural and social context of the time that some early Christians were using home-church time as social time versus church time and the women were dressing up a lot to show social status during their home-church meetings. Lots to think about!

[@ZileleDinUrma]

false doctrine, it doesn't say let them not chat, it clearly says let them not S P E A K which is a correct translation of the greek word LALEO

[@stonewallis4373]

Leave it to a woman to not understand plain text. It means SHUT UP when in church.

[@ZileleDinUrma]

@@stonewallis4373 unlike that don’t you?pervert

[@JakeRLabrador]

Steven Williams… no need to be so abrasive. There are people who have different perspectives than you. It’s okay. Women have their role so do we. Behaving like a Neanderthal is not it though. You’re response is why everyone believe Christians to be misogynist jerks. Clearly in other places in scripture there are women who are elders/prophesying. In fact one the first people to go and share the gospel is the woman at the well. So they have no place to speak? I disagree.

[@garyh987]

@@stonewallis4373 "Leave it to a women".... VERY condescending/toxic statement.

[@christian4ever672]

The problem is not with the passage but our lack of understanding. Thank you for treating this carefully. Misunderstanding can easily bruise and stunt female spiritual growth or lead a male to stumble into pride and arrogance. Mutual appreciation for our complementary roles must be given more than lip service, by men and women.

[@meme-rv6fp]

Sons & daughters wiĺldream dreams & prophecy. 😂

[@apracity7672]

I don't think you could possibly reconcile 21st century feminist beliefs with Christian beliefs

[@jennprescott2757]

No chance!!!

[@bufficliff8978]

You can't even reconcile 21st century feminism with 20th century feminism

[@apracity7672]

@@bufficliff8978 yup definitely true. At first I was just going to say "feminism" but thats too broad of a term. 20th century feminism I'd get behind, but not 21st century feminism

[@jennprescott2757]

@@apracity7672 after reading The Boy Crisis it made me question how much of 20th century feminism I'm for. I'm not against all of it, but mug of it has really done a lot of damage on our society. I say this as a woman.

[@menknurlan]

@Loving one another there is no sky daddy. You make a charicature of God that doesnt even make any sense. God isnt in the sky lol. God is a spirit. Not a bodily being.

[@raining_trees]

It is terrifying being a Christian wife who seeks to live Biblically. Giving a man, a flawed human being, that amount of submission and control over you is not just humbling, but it's scary because they could so easily use it to abuse you. I've discussed this a lot with my husband and apparently he is equally terrified about different issues. I could easily refuse to be a Biblical wife now that we're married, thereby stealing his own Biblical role away from him and leaving him immasculated. Moral of the story: a truly godly husband will submit to his wife in Biblical ways, love and support her, listening to her input and guiding her righteously. And a truly godly wife will submit to her husband in Biblical ways, respect his decision-making capabilities, and have the humility let her husband have the final say on things.

[@ravendraxler8999]

never submit yourself to a whimp always submit to man who respects you there are men out there who will control and abuse dont submit to them

[@ericjames7819]

The consequences of not submitting to your husband are even scarier than submitting

[@yocampout]

You're right. That is why, as women of faith, we have to marry with discernment

[@ericjames7819]

@@yocampout I'm curious as to what verses this comes from.

[@yocampout]

@@ericjames7819 not marrying a jerk? It's about being equally yoked

[@younghorseVRH]

People who want to disagree with the word of God will always find a way to do so. I did so for years!

[@utuberme1]

I still do it sometimes, mostly using rationalizations. And I find it abhorrent afterwards.

[@nathanieldiaz2845]

It's refreshing that yall can see that, like many people don't admit that they have done this after they came to Christ.

[@frankstanley8499]

Bible worshiping I'd idol worship.

[@teragram8006]

Simple solution...don't go to church. Most of them are just manmade businesses anyways.

[@florinaschilean6143]

what a beautiful testimony. we are all guilty of that, it takes a strong and sincere spirit to recognize that.

[@micahddrake]

1 Timothy 2:11-15 [11]A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [12]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. [13]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [14]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. [15]But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

[@TheOnlyGregGames]

Mike, you’re the man! Always preaching/teaching in such a balanced way. Rightly diving the word of truth! Praise God brother!

[@jimclaven8389]

Post the scripture that days heathen like mike are to teach or preach the word of God - ill wait

[@andrewjmschroeder]

I'm really eagerly looking forward to your big teaching on this, Mike! My mom and I have been discussing this quite a bit recently, so I'm looking forward to learning more!

[@jimclaven8389]

Post the scripture that says heathen are to teach or preach the word of God - ill wait

[@alanhales239]

Andrew Schroeder, for the Biblical truth, see my reply to Mike.

[@morielrorschach8090]

@@jimclaven8389 Depends on what you mean by "heathen." Some use the term as a translation of "goy," the nations (other than the genetic descendants of Israel). If that's what you mean, I can show you quite a few scriptures specifically saying that the message would be preached to all the nations/heathen. If, by "heathen" you mean people who believe in other gods... that I'd generally agree with you. However, others WERE given legitimate prophecy. God gave the Egyptian Pharoh the dream. Joseph just interpreted it. God gave the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar the dream. Daniel just interpreted it. The Persian Zoroastrian king Cyrus defeated Babylon, brought Israel back to their land, and funded the building of the temple Nebuchadnezzar had destroyed and restoration of all of the items he had taken... which is one reason the bible explicitly states that God stirred up Cyrus's heart and used him, and refers to Cyrus as a "messiah." (Not THE messiah, but an ordained king used by God to save his people). So, sure, even heathen can be used by God to some extent (whether they're willing or not). What's the context of that statement, Jim?

[@scarletdragonflame4941]

Howdy - the Bible teaches that men are more VALUABLE.

[@roycelyn31]

We've been married 41 years and 99.9% of decisions we have made together. We do research, discuss our feelings and pray about them. I would hope you could realize that there are marriages that the couples truly do make decisions together.

[@mystdragon8530]

Yes, I agree. But the rules for making decisions in regards to a husband and wife are not for when you agree, but when you disagree. Therefore the Bible gives the responsibility of the final choice to the husband. In my marriage, it is when neither of us want to make the decision that my wife reminds me that it is my responsibility.

[@bouquetoffood8918]

@@mystdragon8530 You are spot on my friend. I "submit" to my husband when we DIFFER. God bless!

[@86jmonson]

I agree, we are to submit to each other in marriage.

[@rvank8037]

@@mystdragon8530 I see your point, but are there not situations where the big decision on which spouses differ should be made by the woman, and the man should submit (as per Ephesians 5 - "submit to one another")? If we have different roles then, for instance, the woman should make the choice about what kind of labor and delivery she wants. That is her domain.

[@songangel15]

@@rvank8037 I disagree with your last point. In marriage the husbands body belongs to the wife and the wife’s to her husband. He should be included in decisions about his wife’s body. I know that my husband cares deeply for my well-being so i can trust that his concerns and opinions are coming from a place of love and responsibility to me as his wife. I show him respect and trust when I ask his opinion and take his advice on matters that effect my body. We pray and discuss different options until we reach an agreement that we both are at peace with.

[@xAaeiynx]

Priscilla is a woman, in the New Testament, mentioned across several books, in the bible and noted for helping Paul and being a "sister" in Christ. She's first mentioned in Acts 18:2. Her first act as ACTUALLY "teaching" something (and even "usurping authority over a man") is in Acts 18:26. She helped fine tuned Apollos understanding of the Word of God, along with her husband via Aquila. It's mentioned twice, that she holds a church, in her home, with her husband via Romans 16:5 & 1 Corinthians 16:19. Even after 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says that "women should be silent and not teach nor 'usurp authority over a man'", Priscilla is STILL be credited for a job well done, in 2 Timothy 4:19...if women weren't meant to "teach" nor "usurp authority over a man", the bible would NOT have mentioned her and would've condemned her for dare doing so, but it never did. And, this is the KJV, in which it makes it pretty clear that she helped Apollos' understanding ("teaching a man") of the Word of God and held a church, in her home. Folks just like to misinterpret the Word of God to fulfill their own ideology, in what they want God's Word to be.

[@Ceannadach]

It sounds as if Priscilla and her husband were witnessing to Apollos, for he was of John’s way and not of Christ. There is nothing wrong with women discipling and witnessing. Tabitha, the widow of Acts, was a teacher among other widows (from what we can surmise). Timothy and Corinthians is clear that women are not only to be silent, in the way Mike explained, but also not to pastor. Women are not less than men, but women were created FROM man by God. Adam gave Eve the title of WO-man. Should not the man be charged over her then? That’s the equivalent of saying a child has more say than the parents. It’s false doctrine. Women are by no means less than men. But in the case of the modern church, women have gained their roles as leaders and pastors because WEAK, GODLESS men have let them, and it is seriously sad. Women are beautiful in their ways, and to let them act as a man would in what he is supposed to do is sickening. Edit: Apollos isn’t a part of the “church”. So, as I mentioned, he wasn’t considered a Christian and, therefore, Priscilla did nothing wrong. Also, Aquila was there, too. We may can surmise that he did the preaching in the house with like minded people. Aka, Christians.

[@xAaeiynx]

@Ceannadach There's (also) Ana (a prophetess & widow) who spoke about God, in Jerusalem, to those willing to listen, and how to be redeemed by the Lord (Luke 2:36-38). And, if it was just Pricilla's husband doing all this teaching, then Priscilla's name would be absent, but it wasn't. 1 Cor 14 is talking about Tongues. It equally tells men to be "silent", as well (1 Cor 14:27-28). Along with using a gender neutral word of "prophet/prophesy" ('cause there's female prophets, too) being "silent", as well, to keep the peace, in church. Basically, what everybody should do, be quiet during any assembly. And then take the person to the side (like Priscilla & Aquila did in Acts 18 with Apollos), to "correct" them. Seems fair. And 1 Tim 2:11-14 reminds WIVES to keep their HUSBANDS as the rightful "head" of their marriage/family. It even mentions the Genesis account/sin transgression. What did God tell Eve what Adam's authority over her was in Gen 3:16? It was as a HUSBAND and NOT a "man". Other verses in the bible retain this hierarchy: Eph 5:22 & Col 3:18. Why would any and all women "submit themselves" to any and all men? That doesn't make any sense, therefore 1 Tim 2:11-14 is a slight mistranslation in using the words "women" & "men" instead of "wives" & "husbands". Even God tells Adam in Gen 2:18, it's not good for man to be alone, and that He would build Adam a "helpmate". Just like Priscilla is Aquila's "helpmate" in spreading the Word of God.

[@PureBloodedPatriot-k9p]

Woman was made for man, not man for woman.

[@xAaeiynx]

@@PureBloodedPatriot-k9p Well, 1 woman for 1 man. Not infinite women for 1 man. The woman's submission is to her 1 husband and her 1 husband alone. No other man has "authority" over her (except maybe her father), that's it. No woman who's not the wife of another man, owes him "submission". That's reserved for her husband.

[@PureBloodedPatriot-k9p]

@@xAaeiynx where did all that come from? Again, wisdom beckons that when agitated, pause and ask why? It never surprises me the responses from scripture other than “Amen”

[@robprice8509]

I preached a sermon on this passage a few years ago called “The Silence of the Ma’ams”; lol.

[@robprice8509]

Not added, as far as I can see. I suggest that 34-35 MAY be language borrowed from Paul’s opponents (as he does throughout I Corinthians). This does not help us with I Timothy 2:12, which is a whole different thing, but - as Mike points out - Paul is clearly OK with women prophesying, etc.

[@stem289]

Hahahaha that sounds good! How'd it go?

[@stem289]

The Silence of the Ma'ams - Rabbinical Lecture (Hannibal Lecter) 😂

[@robprice8509]

My congregation was patient with me; lol. I have folks on both sides of this issue, so I wasn’t going to hit a home run in any event. I was pleasantly surprised by how little blowback I got.

[@stem289]

@@robprice8509 that's awesome! I pray that you continue to serve the Lord diligently and that He, by the power of His Holy Spirit, enlightens the eyes of your heart to the truth of Him (Ephesians 1:13-14). Take care, brother ❤

[@amberlockyer7778]

We used to live in quite a remote part of India. There were parallels with the culture described here. I remember an old Nepali lady loudly getting up and arguing with a neighbour in the middle of the preaching 😂 If I was a gambling type (which I'm not!) I'd be willing to lay money on the bet that this was exactly the kind of thing Paul was talking about!

[@bouquetoffood8918]

Of course!

[@yeshuaislordandgodraisedhi4369]

Galatians 3:28 New International Version 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

[@slamdancer777]

@@yeshuaislordandgodraisedhi4369 not the applicable verse.

[@ZileleDinUrma]

as long as you don't bet your eternal salvation on it all be fine

[@pdp9459]

What about all the sensible and intelligent women... just for a small loud women all should be given same treatment. Are there no loud men???

[@julianderson8708]

This is a difficult topic. I lived this out married to a pastor for 29 years. He was mentally unstable and had drug and alcohol addiction. It was drilled into me that you don’t talk badly about your husband to others, so I didn’t tell. Letting him “have the final say” led to financial disaster and much instability. We are now divorced and he is in jail. Our daughters are now staunchly feminist because of what they experienced. Thankfully, they haven’t turned from God. I’m trying to find the truth on this issue to teach my children what is right, apart from the wrong I know we were living under.

[@christian1172-z9e]

I’m so sorry you and your daughters went through that. Growing up, I attended a church that allowed that sort of thing to go unchecked. I believe a lot of the advice in conservative churches right now is more of a reaction against feminism rather than a true seeking of wisdom. If you are interested I’d highly recommend Elyse Fitzpatrick’s book “Worthy” and you tubes by Sheila Gregoire. These ladies are very interested ladies in being faithful to the Bible. I believe they give a more Biblical view of womanhood. Totally get your daughters’ reactions.

[@sofiblinka2300]

@Morgan Hill being a feminist mean wanting equality between men and women as far as i know there is nothing wrong with that

[@sarahbosse2805]

In no way am I going to submit to my husband if what he is doing is unbiblical. We discuss things equally and in the end, if neither of our opinions aren’t unbiblical, then we go with my hubby’s choices. If a church is teaching a woman to submit to an unhealthy, abusive, man, then they are wrong.

[@chantalwilliams41]

You should only submit to your husband if Christ is his head, if he is submissive to Christ. If your husband is not in full submission to Christ cause God is love then your submission to him will be in vain and you would be setting yourself up for abuse. We wife's also should use wisdom when choosing a Godly husband also if you ended up marrying an unbeliever be gentle with love and temperance (a type of submission) to win him over to Christ then by his fruits you may fully submit likewise he should also be submissive to you.

[@S.ENTERTENMENT]

@@chantalwilliams41 your husband is Christian or not

[@kurbysbay7136]

This verse is not talking about women not to preach in church. It is talking about how married women are to behave in church. For those who jump on this verse to preach that women are not supposed to speak who will the unmarried women speak to at home. Married women subject themselves to their husbands.

[@beautiful.54]

@@kurbysbay7136 yes it does mean exactly that

[@T1tans777]

@@beautiful.54 so women are never allowed to get answers ever because they’re women well men can get every answer that they need?

[@beautiful.54]

@@T1tans777 read what you applied to me, and I never said a woman can't get any answers, I said a "WOMAN" isn't supposed to preach period teach yes but not preach, and God said it Mr holy man

[@margaretwalker3629]

Women funded Jesus's ministry. Women play a significant role in the body of Christ. I am so thankful for the order that God has ordained. Understanding that the husband is the representation of Christ in the household, the head, gives women freedom to express and explore thoughts and questions. It allows us to be open and vulnerable which is exactly what we should be. We should call into question things that seem off or wrong and we should be able to point out what is good and right and the order God has set in place allows us to reach our full potential in the best possible way.

[@carlosreira413]

Excellent point, sister Margaret. Women funded the ministry. This is amazing in and of itself, suggesting not only their critical function here, but that they had the authority to dispense with their own funds as they saw fit. Amazing.

[@sydneyscott7105]

Thank you Mike many people use this out of context and it hurts. The context is very helpful. I never want to have authority or speak over anyone but it’s comforting to remember women have a place in His church that God has designed, and it’s not just being silent. We can use our God given gifts appropriately ❤️

[@susanmcculley4532]

Mike.. I struggled with this for years. I recently heard a sermon that helped me with this passage so much! It’s obvious that Paul was not against women speaking in church from other passages ..so why the abrupt flip (so it would seem)? We need to remember that these letters are a response from Paul to the Corinthians from letters they sent to Paul (that we don’t have) challenging his authority, how the church was supposed to be run, their debating on what does and doesn’t make someone spiritual etc.. the entirety of these letters are Paul’s response to their debates. If we look at this passage from the lens that Paul was quoting back to them the question/comment posed to him and responding to that notion (of women being quiet etc) with sarcasm and rebuke.. “the women should keep quiet in the churches for they are not authorized …as the law says”??!! if we keep reading into vs 36 Paul says WHAT! Did the word of the lord originate with you?! He’s being sarcastic in response to the argument the Corinthians we’re having over this topic.

[@michaeloconnor1757]

Tough crowd to preach to. Winger teaches and replies with truth, humility, and grace! Kudos.

[@straighttalknosugaradded]

That was so well done and thoughtful! You are truly a gift to us Mike!

[@Evangelina23]

I read this verse last night and was wondering deeply about it. Occurred to me Paul often says not to do things to make another believer stumble. From my experience, a woman questioning a man in public may be a way to make him stumble (men feel “the heat” differently from women than from men-am I right?). Perhaps knowing how women affect men in this way, it is wise of Paul to discourage women’s questioning of men in public setting of worship-viewed as a loving submission or “self-control,” especially when the point of church is to bring each other up and increase unity. We’ve all heard the wise saying “it’s not what we say, it’s what we do not say” to preserve long term peace in a relationship. Perhaps this submission is along the same lines? It recognizes the verbal/feminine power some women have on some men, and seeks to reduce friction for the sake of devotion and peace in the church. I see it as a Admonition to women to avoid inadvertently or purposely wielding their verbal acuities in a church setting. Any thoughts? Oh, also some women can have a lot of pride, and if a man ignores questions, she may feel insulted. More division. I really believe Paul was using common sense here, holding harmony and unity very highly-because above all, love one another.

[@mariohumberto3397]

I think you into something, even if we are speculating it makes sense. Yes a man sometimes may feel the heat when a woman challenges him because at the end we are different so it is not the same talking to a man than woman. I think the key thing is in the passage: submit themselves. You found a possible reason that seems wise to try to preserve unity in the body of Christ. We all need to do things like that.

[@ItsEverythingEuodia]

@Loving one another If that's what you are dead set on thinking the passage is saying then there's nothing anyone can do to change your mind. I pray that you will be open to listening to other views on this passage and that God works on you in this area💖

[@evelynfrederick]

I LOVE THIS! Our heart should never be to humiliate someone

[@ItsEverythingEuodia]

@Loving one another I am a woman. I thought my KZbin name was clear but I guess not😅😅. And if a man or men are abusing this doctrine that doesn't mean that the doctrine itself is abusive or wrong. My dad exercises this at home and if he starts to abuse the authority he has been given then he will be held accountable for that once he's dead. Plus my mom would have a thing or 2 to say which leads him to apologise and humble himself. If you're in a church where this doctrine is being abused I would suggest you leave and find another church. I pray that God gives you wisdom in this area💕 I know we all need more of it

[@ernesto.748]

@Loving one another the fact that you keep on typing “ sky daddy” just tells me your not willing to have a serious and civil conversation. Clearly you seem triggered. I don’t know who hurt you but everyone is being respectful. And why is it that you seem so mad at someone who doesn’t exist??? Women could talk in churches, they could prophesy and speak in tounges. One of the reasons why Paul told them to stay silent is because back then in many of their cultures women literally had no education. Is that God fault?? No it’s not. Blame men for that. But other then that, that’s why Paul told them to stay silent. To avoid confusion as well and so they can learn too. But who knows I think there’s also more to this. Please educate yourself and stop reading ancients texts with a modern mind. People were different back then. Again is it Gods fault? No it’s not. Things were different back then, cultures were different. The ancient world in general is very different then how our world is now.

[@graceyow3392]

subordination does not imply being of less value or equality or importance. remember, jesus acted in subordination to the father. it is just a system of order. a ship cannot have two captains. but without the crew, the ship can go nowhere.

[@RedeemedRestored]

10:02 it’s not that women are less than men, it’s people’s poor or choice to misunderstand the divine roles of both genders and honestly, for some who are authority hungry and cannot disciple. No different than men who want to be authority figures in a church and are not picked and leave to start their own ministry

[@PhazonOmega]

This is the best explanation I've heard! And after looking at the page myself, it fits! I am not done in my search for answers on such topics, but this is the most valid understanding of this passage I've ever heard!

[@Jhart44]

Help me out please, because I’m still confused

[@user-kb1ur9ky8b]

@@Jhart44 Right. It's clear but I don't see much logic in it.

[@robgood5486]

"somebody has to make decisions" Why does that somebody in the marriage always have to be the same person? Should there be a time when the man makes a decision and another time when the same type of scenario comes along again the woman makes the decision? Their needs to be agreement, their needs to be partnership, there needs to be deference... but does it always need to be the woman who defers? Is that loving their wives as Christ loves the church? hmmm... Why does the "somebody has to make decisions" always have to be the same person? That logic fails to be proven.

[@user-in5ru2cd9l]

Your presupposition is that that "Somebody will always take the last desicion" is also illogical. Who said it had to be always the same person to make desicions?

[@sparking023]

I see where you're coming from, but it seems to ignore that according to the Bible, the man and the woman have different roles in the relationship and the family. The man is the head of the family, his duty is to guide, to protect, to provide. The woman is an administrator and assistant, but not in a position of less honor. If you look for how the Virtuous woman is described, you'll see that she is very intelligent and competent, perfectly capable of making sound decisions. Yes, the ideal is that the couple takes decisions together, but the man is the head. If a man doesn't listens to his wife and that makes her saddened, does he really loves her? Marriage needs both parts to be subject to each other, and to God before it.

[@kennylee6499]

I think of it like a president and his cabinet. They each have their assigned roles. They are each equal in value as human beings, each with great knowledge, and each capable of making decisions. But inherently, ultimately, someone will have a final say, and that is the president. So in a godly relationship, the husband and wife will ideally talk it out and listen to each other, but the husband has the duty as the head of the household, and the wife will willingly submit to that. That doesn't mean his automatically overrides her or that he can abuse it, but rather he "makes it official" and represents the spiritual leadership of his family. Maybe it is the case that the wife is the one who decides something, and the husband goes along with it. Sure. And she can have veto power. Sure. If there's a conflict that neither party can compromise on, thats when they should defer to the wisdom of the church elders and leaders.

[@rvank8037]

I agree! My husband and I make decisions together, but sometimes one of us feels more strongly than the other. In those cases the one who feels most strongly makes the decision. It may even be a BIG decision. But we love one another, so we submit to one another. That's absolutely biblical.

[@Questionablexfun]

Agreed

[@graceyow3392]

thank you mike for bringing clarity to this issue. the most important thing is to be certain what god is saying. if that is established, then we do what he says. he is the creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them. he knows the best way his creation would work. his system of order is far better than what finite minds of man think is better.

[@Stinger522]

I am a man and i believe there is a time to speak and there's a time to listen. That applies both ways.

[@markhorton3994]

In Greek culture and many others women were not educated more than needed to manage a household ( if rich) or do the work (if poor). The Corinthian women Paul admonishes were illiterate. They could not have read Scripture and their questions would have been basic and disruptive. In several of his epistles Paul send greetings to women by name "and the church that meets in her house". Women, some of whom are named, accompanied Jesus and financed His ministry. Phoebe and her husband tought Apollos what he needed to know. Lydia the seller of purple (in other words well off merchant in her own right) was a leader of the church. Mary Magdalene was the first to see the Resurected Jesus and may have been considered an Apostle. "There is neithar Jew nor Greek, male nor female" A Christian husband is to love his wife. No form of abuse including not respecting her opinion is any part of love.

[@nyambsdeborah8954]

True, but women are still to submit to their wives. And the bible says men are the head. But you are correct, we need to factor in the cultural aspects and context of this verse. Like you said, women didn't necessarily have the same education per se as women.

[@jeremiahzimmerman8499]

But this isn't about culture. Paul gives the reason for this God-honoring order in 1 Timothy 2:13-14. And that reason is the creation order. It's about honoring God's good design for us.

[@Himmiefan]

@@jeremiahzimmerman8499 No dear, Paul is referring to the cult of Diana’s teaching infiltrating the church at Ephesus when he noted the creation order and women being saved by bearing children. This all relates back to what the cult of Diana was teaching.

[@brianokorie6005]

The disciples of Jesus were uneducated men….education was never an issue, Paul stated his reason, also the context of the silence is in the presence of a congregation that includes men…. Also notice that it was Phoebe and her husband, not Phoebe alone

[@brianokorie6005]

@@Himmiefan and that same teaching keeps echoing…. If Paul addressed it in Corinth and similarly in Ephesus, I wonder what the context of culture has to do with it

[@livinghound]

I often have prophetic dreams, and I am a 23 year old female. From my experience, God has graced me with discernment and I've learned to be careful reading certain texts in the Bible because some words are translated differently through languages. For example, there is a term in the English Standard Version in which God states that he is a jealous God. Jealous in modern term is equal to envious and it is impossible for God to be envious. God already has everything and he speaks truth and justice. To have humans turn to false gods instead of acknowledging the only God that gave them life is wrong and is injustice. If you painted a painting that was showcased in a museum, but the credit of the painting was given to someone else, you would be rightfully offended because it is injustice by not being truthful. Also, reading through Exodus, Miriam, the wife of Moses (or Aaron - I don't recall at the moment) was called a prophetess. There were also women ministering at the tent meeting while the tabernacle was being built. So, I've learned to pray for discernment to understand text translations that might have been translated improperly and may seem offensive in the modern era. Plus, as a women that has prophetic dreams, those dreams are a responsibility and a privilege which I have to be so very careful with who and how I share them because if I mistakenly lead someone astray, that is a terrible thing on my part. That is why everyone that has the gift of prophesying must pray for discernment from God to avoid accidentally misleading someone.

[@essennagerry]

I heard from someone that back then, since until then women weren't allowed to study scripture like men were, they would chatter a lot during the congregation and so the congregation would not go well because they'd chatter so much. By that interpretation Paul was saying it's not proper for women to speak as in, speak however they want to, chatter, speak how women speak when they gatter together - that's what's not proper. And instead they should ask their men at home - as the chattering is caused by a lack of knowledge on scripture. To me, this interpretation seems plausable, logical and consistent with the rest of what Paul says in his letters. It's what I'm very much inclined to believe, as long as the linguistics of the text also support it, which sadly Idk if they do. That being said, on the things about roles and marriage which Mike touched on toward the end - surely we should do whatever God tells us to. Once I thought to myself hm well if God really wants me to submit to my (future) husband... I suddenly had no problem with that. Isn't that interesting? As soon as I entertained the thought that God may really want that from me I suddenly had no problem with it. Suddenly it couldn't mean anymore women are lower or of less value than men, suddenly I let go of any worry if my husband is less obedient to God or smth that will lead me down a bad path, suddenly I let go of the worry it means less integrity for me and less adventure with God because some boring man will probably want some worldly thing instead of God's will and there's nothing I can do about it. Because just only if God really meant it - it's good. God knows all these things, and He knows my heart too. And God thought of marriage being a unit between a man and a woman, making them in some sense one. And God put everything that is good in me in me. Whatever God wants, that's what I want too. It's good, and I know God's heart at least a little bit. I know He loves men and women the same, I know He made us both first and foremost for Him and not for each other. I know I can trust in His will. And if He really meant women should literally keep silent in congregation we should do that too. My problem with that is it makes zero sense to me, except with the interpretation I wrote above. For a woman to submit to her husband, or the other way around, that makes sense to me for several reasons. To just have one gender not speak in congregation doesn't make sense to me. It's also not consistent with the rest of what Paul says so it's reasonable to question that interpretation.

[@makeda6530]

That makes sense especially in context, thanks for this

[@essennagerry]

@ChristianRebel Oh yes, my idea of what it even means to submit was different. I thought it meant to be bossed around and whT whenever there is a disagreenment the husband can always say "Gid said you should submit to me, so do it" to push his decision. I believe biblical submission is different because of how God respects both parties in the marriage, because of how God's will is one for the marriage and not one for the woman and one for the man (so I shouldn't worry about my husband's decisions hindering my relationship with God) and also because of what God says the husband should do also - to love his wife like how Christ loved the church. To submit yourself to someone who loves you like Christ loves the church, knowing that God's will is good for both of you and He's uniting your lives in a special way through marriage - well that doesn't sound limiting at all, it sounds like a neat organisational/management trick lol. Though I admit for me it may amount to a great deal of humbling too because I'm very stubborn to discuss and understand everything and have a hard time following a decision I don't understand. But perhapd God will grant me a husband with whom communication will be good and we won't even have this problem. We'll see. :)

[@wtan5814]

God bless you Mike for having the courage to stand for God's Word regardless the controversy or the cost.

[@michellemorgan1058]

I'm looking forward to your teaching on women in ministry. Thank you for 'biting the bullet' and teaching Truth. I appreciate hearing you delve into God's Word and processing it for us in context.

[@michaelemmanuel6431]

Hey I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?

[@goldenspuds9207]

Healthy submission to me means that i pray for my husband, we both have a relationship with God and I look to my husband to lead us in our decisions. But he always communicates with me about what God is speaking to him, and we converse together to come to a conclusion about if thats what God is really saying. Remember that yes, I submit to my husband, but my husband is directed to love me as Jesus loved the church. That is a STRONG love. Insanely strong. I have no problem submitting to someone who loves me that much.

[@coryholbrook4643]

Using 2021 as a benchmark for how we should be is not wise...

[@patmelton43]

This is the most evil time I have ever seen.

[@KelseyMcSorley]

I agree! The most evil time I've ever seen. We need REAL men like Mike leading our churches!

[@patmelton43]

@G D Are you serious? Unbelievable crime, Antifa mobs and BLM mobs, a manufactured virus and a poisonous shot. Open borders, child trafficking. just to name a few evils.

[@patmelton43]

@G D Stolen election; a president that China owns. Shall I go on?

[@gareth2736]

@G Dvoice of sanity in the midst of some pretty extreme paranoia. I never know how much point there is interacting with these folk as they seem to have gone too far down a rabbit hole of "doing their own research" via KZbin and Facebook....but maybe the combination of being challenged and conviction of the Holy Spirit might get them thinking.

[@RayvenneChannel]

As a woman, I am only willing to submit within the Kingdom of the Lord (family), with a Man that has submitted to the Lord. Outside of that, men have no business bothering me!

[@unholydanger]

You don't need that many men

[@Denise-wz7ks]

Please see Bishop Noel Jones "Leave the women alone" may God bless in Jesus name.

[@singmetosleep29]

How ought we factor in the reality that women were not allowed to attend rabbinical school at the time, and wouldn’t have had the same knowledge as men?

[@bufficliff8978]

Super cool question! Maybe email it, and Sarah might be able to set it aside for Mike to look into while he's doing his study on women in the church. I'd LOVE to hear his thoughts on this.

[@nyambsdeborah8954]

That's a good factor in! Context matters!

[@singmetosleep29]

@@nyambsdeborah8954 Context is king

[@nyambsdeborah8954]

@@singmetosleep29 perioddd

[@JoelTrousdale88]

@@bufficliff8978 where do you email questions?

[@michellesiegmund6657]

Mike, I was raised by a single mother who taught me to be independent and honestly that a man could not be depended on. I did use to view this as oppressive. However, when I really started walking with The Lord closely, there came a time when I was unemployed, not planned, for about 2 years or a little over. During this time is when this subject came up and I approched The Lord with it. Long story, short, He took me back to creation and showed me that I was never created as less but How He had defined and organized the family. He never asked for anyone's opinion or input(not shown to me in a harsh way)but just as salvation in Jesus is one way, I have a choice to go my own way or choose His. When He showed me that it is a protective umbrella,everything He institutes and makes is for my absolute good, as His Word tells me in Jer 29:11, then rebellion against the way He set up the family is rebellion against Him. This broke my heart. Even as being a believer I risk people taking advantage of it and misconstruing it for their own benefits. However, if I do as He instructs me and submit to Him, and His way, His structure, He will lead me in it. I cannot control the actions or hearts of others, only mine, as He helps me. It is important that I submit to The Lord and He is the Seer and Rewarder. He is also the One who will make me fruitful and glorify Himself through my life. No longer is this part of scripture offensive to me because I know that He has me. He is my Prize and He will work whatever happens out for my good because I love Him and trust Him and am called according to His purpose and not my own. I also now respect my husband and am ok with being vunerable and dependent with The Lord and with my husband , who I respect now and love more, even though we may not always agree. I can always trust The Lord to help us. Thank you for this discussion video.

[@dr.alanhales544]

Mike Winger. The "Women" in 1 Cor 14: 34--35 is the "Wife, The Greek word for women is the same Greek word for "Wife", and you have to put the right word and meaning to the right scripture, And in the context od 1 Cor 14: 34--35, it's the "Wife". What happened in those days, was, The women [and wives] would be upstairs and the men , [Husbands] downstairs. and the wives would shout down to their husbands thing like, "What did he mean, or what does that mean". So Paul was telling them not to speak, [Shout down] but to wait until they get home, then ask their husbands. V35. "Speak" in v34, can also mean, "Preach", but it can't in this context, because the wives have to Ask their husbands, Not tell them.

[@XeenMusic]

"What happened in those days, was, The women [and wives] would be upstairs and the men , [Husbands] downstairs. And the wives would shout down to their husbands thing like, "What did he mean, or what does that mean"." I've been looking for 15+ years to find the contemporary source where this alledged fact comes from...

[@dr.alanhales544]

@@XeenMusic It's not an "Alleged fact". It's was what happened is those days.

[@XeenMusic]

@@dr.alanhales544 So answer my challenge (which none has been able to over the course of 15 years) -- Provide me a quote contemporary with the apostle proving that this was the case.

[@dr.alanhales544]

@@XeenMusic You need to know the culture and they way the women including the Wives were separated from the men and the husbands. It's an historical fact. Or you can just read 1 Cor 14: 34--35 in it's right context, and it tells us what it means.

[@XeenMusic]

@@dr.alanhales544 Again, I challenge you to state the contemporary source that proves this fact. The context of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 without any outside interpretation makes it clear that women were not to speak at all at the assembly. But when they left and went back to a house, then they could ask their men anything they wanted when they were allowed to speak.

[@morielrorschach8090]

Mike's right to point out λαλεῖν isn't just "making a noise." But to Converse. To have a conversation. Considering some other passages with (much more serious) issues congregations have faced, and the context of this one being about order while people are teaching... consider this translation: Let the wives in the congregations quiet down. For it isn't appropriate for them to have conversations*, but be in submission as the law says. If, However, there's something they want to know, let them interrogate their husbands at home. For it is inappropriate for wives to have conversations in the middle of church. (*This may refer specifically to the TIMING of those conversations taking place while someone is teaching) Yes, ἐπερωτάτωσαν is a pretty strong word... "interrogate, question, demand of."

[@slamdancer777]

Meh a bit confusing with that translation.

[@justkenzie]

The subservient sort of role of women in relationship to men is meant to be parallel with the relationship of the church to Christ... the only reason this messes us up I'd because we try to understand spiritual things with an earthly perspective. I'm glad you're addressing this. Glory to GOD.💜

[@greggmillay]

It doesn't matter what society says on the matter. We are not to change the Bible, to fit our lives. Our lives are to be changed, to fit the Bible.

[@BenjaminPitkin]

@MikeWinger. Something I noticed from this: I don't think Paul is unaware of the controversy, as he supports his instruction with a deeper theological point in scripture - which I note you missed. In 1 Timothy 2:13-14 it says, "For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." Which is of course a reference to the fall in Genesis 3. With this reference Paul is alluding to those events, and by emphasizing the fact that Eve was deceived - whilst Adam was not - there seems to be a generally applicable point here. The bigger theological point I think Paul is alluding to, is the strategy of Satan (or the serpent's tempting) in approaching the woman. He is I think also referring to the respective differences between Adam's and Eve's modes of sin and seeking to make general application to the ways in which Men and Women, generally, sin. The key takeaway points are as follows: 1. The man (Adam) knew what he was good; but failed to do it. 2. The woman (Eve) was deceived - and her attempts to good resulted in evil; because she didn't know that good was. 3. The serpent, being crafty - deliberately targeted a point of weakness. Which in this case, was the woman's fragility to deception. On these points, I think Paul is being soberly critical of both men and women - and when we test this with our experience of human nature, it does hold true. Women, generally speaking, fall for causes, and are thus driven to sin by FOLLY. Men, (though not being immune to deception), would not seem to require deception to sin. In essence, men sin because they decline to act as men. The sin of Adam was that of inaction. Men are LAZY. Thus, God's instruction - given through Paul - is for men to stop being lazy, grow a spine, and exercise their God-given responsibility to lead. His instruction to women is support their men, and live in harmony... Women do indeed have great capacity for good and can be beacons of light in this world. And thus have a critical role to play in ministry - but this can only be realized when lived in submission to God's wisdom.

[@bjccook1352]

If you look at the seating arrangements in ancient synagogues you will find males sat in front and females behind. In order to ask their husbands a question they would need to shout. This qould be very disruptive to the service. This ia what Paul was addressing. As a woman I prefer male preachers as they are more analytical whereas women preachers I've heard are too emotional. The HOLY SPIRIT can use anyone though as long as they are yielding to HIM.

[@buzzcomber]

That’s a really interesting point. I’ve heard from some people that certain elements in the NT relate to the culture and people of the time and aren’t so specific for today. I don’t have an opinion on it however, as I haven’t researched enough to give a detailed explanation.

[@InfiniteBobby]

Interesting

[@astarwilliams2621]

My only objection is that in the verse it specifically, gets its authority from the law, so I don't see how its only cultural. But I do need to study further

[@JOHNch4.v.v.7to10]

1 This is a true saying, if a MAN desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well HIS own house, having HIS children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if A MAN know not how to rule HIS own house, how shall HE take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride HE fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover HE must have a good report of them which are without; lest HE fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 LIKEWISE must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must THEIR WIVES be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be THE HUSBANDS of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. ///// ** Not only can't ANY woman be a bishop/pastor or a deacon, MOST men don't even meet the requirements!! Being the bishop/pastor of one of Jesus' churches isn't something that the Lord takes lightly. ** You yield to God by yielding to His pure words of instructions/commands. NO WIGGLE ROOM.

[@bjccook1352]

@@JOHNch4.v.v.7to10 I agree...we have a female elder and power has gone to her head. Sad when we don't follow Holy Scripture

[@PerHolbo]

This question has been widely discussed through all denominations, but frankly I don't think it's all that complicated. When Paul talks about HOW women should prophesy in church, he obviously doesn't mean that women should NOT talk in church. And as you point out, this command is a command FOR the women and TO the women. Not a command for the men to impose on the women.

[@charissa6648]

Very well said and articulated.

[@pedinurse1]

But only a few selected prophesy if any.. No singing, no out oud worship????

[@jeffreyjamieson8498]

Would it not also be true that men were the ones who studied and knew more of the scriptures. This feels like a cultural issue. In the culture this was written for life was very different than it is today

[@bouquetoffood8918]

While I agree to a point that it it was in fact cultural, Paul's explanation confirms that the command in question was not MERELY cultural: Because (IN THE BEGINNING, Genesis) the man was created first and because the woman was deceived (paraphrasing). Right? But isn't it most obvious that there were female leaders in the 1st century churches. Paul references about 10 of them in his epistle to the church at Rome.

[@suzannemartin6817]

Interestingly, the western church does NOT have gatherings the way we do now. When we have a guest who gives a prophetic word, we don’t have people “judging” the word like Mike is talking about. So, how does this apply now in a congregational setting of two-hundred or more people. Some of this conversation is simply not applicable to a western church structure and style of gathering. So how does this apply now?

[@HopeKuhn]

God’s design is perfect, and it’s wonderful when it’s followed properly. What Pastor Mike says there about different roles was key 🔑😊

[@sarahfaith316]

Amen!🙏🏼

[@tylerbrown5478]

Read 1 Tim 2:12 and explain why women can't teach over men

[@Draezeth]

@@tylerbrown5478 I'm no expert, but like in this case, look at rhe context and see if there might be additional meaning to the word "teach" in that verse.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Tricuspid atresia is his design. You call that perfect?

[@ryanschatz]

@@tylerbrown5478 1 Tim 2 has many parts and pieces that have to all be integrated into the interpretation of this passage. If you cannot explain the reference to the created order (man then woman) and how this has to do with the man not being deceived but the woman only being deceived, or how "she" will be saved through the childbearing if "they" continue in faith, love and sanctity with self restraint -- if these are not all part of the explanation, including the purpose for which Paul writes this letter to Timothy, etc., then you have to take your view lightly.

[@CGeibel]

My primary question regarding this verse is whether this verse communicates that women cannot speak at the pulpit if men are in the audience. I have seen this verse used to justify this point of view from individuals who allow men that do not meet the 1 Timothy criteria for being a pastor (e.g they’re unmarried) to speak from the pulpit. Thanks!

[@michaelbrickley2443]

Crystal Geibel, This letter was written to the church in Corinth where they were known for getting drunk at the communion table and my teacher who is a woman believes it was about glossolalia and that would make sense because if you look, Paul is later on telling women what to wear when they are prophesying

[@dnzswithwombats]

@@michaelbrickley2443 No need to guess at Paul's reasons. It's in the text.

[@WarRoomWarriors90]

@@michaelbrickley2443 the final note you made is what makes you think this must be taken in context to the situational circumstances in Corinth. How can a woman prophesy or pray in silence?

[@__.Sara.__]

I was just reading the criteria and it says they must keep their children submissive. That's something else that isn't taken literally as a requirement for someone being a pastor, that they have children. All of this is very difficult.

[@bufficliff8978]

I think it's that if they have children and a family they must be in order and submissive, but that having kids and stuff isn't a priority. Because Paul wasn't married but was obviously permitted to speak. So a man who's unmarried can speak, and a man who's married can speak, but a man with an unruly family cannot. But that's just what makes sense to me based off reading it. I know Mike has talked about this exact topic (I think in a Q&A, but can't quite remember). If anyone knows in which video he spoke of this could you give us the video title name in this thread? Thanks!

[@evidencebasedfaith6658]

The thing people need to understand is that God gave men and women different roles.

[@kadda1212]

No, society did that. Not God.

[@evidencebasedfaith6658]

@@kadda1212 I'm not talking about societal roles. I'm talking about roles that are God-given. Like the role of a woman being a mother for example. That comes from God. Not society.

[@HarmonicWave]

Cultural values, which are always changing, should always bow to the Word of God, which never changes. Good discussion, and I like the explanation of women not PUBLICLY judging and evaluating what others share.

[@northbay4619]

Anywhere there is absence of a strong male figure, chaos prevails. I say this as someone who was once a single mom and while I was able to man the fort, it was very stressful and I would have preferred to have a strong male presence. When I was growing up, I noticed that dysfunctional homes almost always had an absent father or a weak father figure. My father was one of those strong male types. Loving, caring, and filled with knowledge and common sense. Yet, one stare and we children would not dare cross him. It made my mom's job a lot easier, too, knowing that if we did not behave under her, we'd have to deal with dad when he came home.

[@whisperstv2888]

Wow, that was awesome.💯👍 I agree with Pastor Mike. Very well said, very well handled👌 TY so much! God bless you!🙏💛☺️

[@Witchoftheriver]

So growing up in the church I experienced a lot of bad and outright false teachings in the women’s ministries. Teachings based around a lot of life coaching books that built themselves around scripture to validate Easter mysticism and put unfair burdens on the readers. I, like a lot of the other women, accepted these teachings because they came to us from women who were married to pastors or elders in the church so it was assumed that whatever they said to us had already been discussed and approved by their husbands. It had not. Which I found out by discussing it directly with one of my pastors and with my father in an attempt to warn them of the dangerous things being taught in the women’s ministries. I wasn’t believed because these women held places of high honor in these men’s lives obviously, so I got punished with social sanctions and this verse was used to help do that by the men and women alike. Do you want a healthy stable church who follow and learn about God rather than life skill manipulation tactics? Then start talking to your women and actually listening to what they say to you, especially if you’re a pastor and you put your wife in authority over other women made DAMN sure you know what she really believes and be brave enough to correct her if she is bringing mysticism into it. People lie, and your wife knows what you approve and disapprove of, so if she tells you one thing but then you talk to one of the women she serves and they’re full of wacky ideas you need to listen and act to protect the women in your congregation including your wife. Grow up already, this isn’t a game of girls vs. boys for crying out loud.

[@BheLacanilao]

Sir I guess part of the context is the possible physical arrangement of the venue where women are most likely seated/ situated behind ( cultural) and couldn't properly hear the speaker in front and so women verbally make inquiries of what was being said which in turn makes noise. So for the sake of order they are told to ask their husbands who are seated in front when they get to their house to prevent a chaos in the on going meeting.

[@melodysledgister2468]

I have always wondered why some churches allow for male deacons only, when in the Bible (Romans 16) Paul clearly endorses Phoebe as a deaconess. I realize deacons do not typically preach, but it is considered a leadership role in most churches. I'm looking forward to your teaching on this subject.

[@janeEyreAddict]

Deacon translates as servant. They are to serve the church in whatever way, it is not a position of authority.

[@thebiblemind4266]

Also, the passage about deacons in 1 Timothy 3 also includes women. But, the English translation obscures this fact. They make it seem like Paul speaks about the wives of the deacons, when the Greek can just as easily be translated as "women," in that he was first addressing the qualifications of male deacons and now he's addressing female deacons.

[@marcokite]

no, a deaconess in the early Church was not a leadership role, she dealt only with women's issues (full immersion baptism, examining a woman's body for bruises is she accused her husband of beating her etc)

[@thebiblemind4266]

@@marcokite Please provide the evidence for your statement.

[@redheadedstepchild5432]

Pastor Mike I appreciate the wisdom you use in answering questions! Praise Jesus

[@michaelemmanuel6431]

Hey I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?

[@redheadedstepchild5432]

The US!

[@michaelemmanuel6431]

@@redheadedstepchild5432 wow that's awesome,I'm glad you reply me thanks for it.

[@michaelemmanuel6431]

@@redheadedstepchild5432 how is your day going?

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

Luke 10:27💝 “So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

[@okaycola2]

those neighbors really be testing my patience

[@okaycola2]

But I am them

[@nickhybner8485]

Great to see this verse looked at with some context to it as it’s been one of the most controversial for decades. I was taught this some 25 years ago

[@salemthorup9536]

As a woman working on her marriage and wanting to create a more godly marriage and family, I'm learning that men don't do well to be criticized and questioned a lot by women. And that dynamic is not meant to oppress women. It's meant for men to hold men accountable as women hold women accountable. This is a very interesting interpretation. I'm so grateful I clicked on this weird titled video. 😄

[@andrew_stamps]

Any man who's ego is so frail he can't be questioned or criticized by a woman, (a woman he claims to love and trust no less) is a frail man indeed. As a man no woman who is with me need hold her tongue, just as I feel no need. That being said the manner in which questions/criticisms are proposed in a relationship matters too.

[@thegrey8643]

You seem to get it. That takes a good level head on one's shoulders.

[@thegrey8643]

There is a time and place for being criticized and a process to trust. @@andrew_stamps

[@BlueYellowGreenVc]

"...for men to hold men [and women] accountable as women hold women [but aren't allowed to hold men] accountable".

[@marlinthaya6438]

Hi Mike, this world has a problem of submission of all sorts. Even they see submitting to God and His will as a problem. Hence this viewed as oppressive.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Yes, the Enlightenment really did doom religious power. For if freedom is a human right, then why must we still be slaves to a god?

[@helenhawkins2107]

That's because the world worships the first usurper.

[@mccalltrader]

I once asked a female seminary student, who was studying to become a pastor, how she got around Paul’s guidance in Corinthians She told me that Paul didn’t like women, and was a misogynist. So…yeah

[@chira-17]

Well cuz its true

[@CanadianMonarchist]

@@chira-17Paul clearly respected Lydia, Phoebe, and Priscilla.

[@kevintrickey4053]

For your consideration. In churches in India women sit on one side and men on the other. If that’s how it was in New Testament times, then this verse has practical applications. Paul didn’t want women yelling across the aisle at their husbands for answers.

[@KDTif]

How do you ask a man at home if he isn’t a believer? What if the husband isn’t as spiritually mature as the wife? Let’s not forget that the wives submit (willingly) to their husbands and not all men.

[@carlosreira413]

Good point KS.

[@thetiredworm2100]

Ah true....some verses of the Bible are a bit hard to understand ngl, I guess in that situation you’d prob ask a pastor from another church or smth that you trust? Idk

[@paularoberts866]

Yes! My families church teach all women Are subject to all christian men in the church Nope!

[@carlosreira413]

@@paularoberts866 Sister, no! What nonsense. What kind of denomination is that. Name some names, so people know what to avoid.

[@briggy4359]

"Be not unequally yoked" If you come to Christ and you are already married, then happily fulfill your role in the household as a loving wife and a good matron, and evangelize. The Bible is very clear-- there is a chain of command that everyone has to follow, and if the husband doesn't submit to God, there is chaos.