How Origin Astarion Ascends (Origin dialog + companion's special dialogs)

[@Ace-du7vw]

They should have given Lae’zel different dialogue if she ends up being the one to help him ascend. Like Gurl you can’t volunteer to help him achieve that power then judge him for following through

[@resonatinglo]

Yep, I agree with that... but I guess between Gale , Karlach and Lae'zel their fail save is Lae'zel , cuz the other two will never help him anyway...

[@lisdraconis2212]

@@resonatinglo Gale actually will. Someone told me he had Gale on his ambition path and his the other Tav PC (multiplayer) where downed still. Thus gale was the only option and he helped Astarion ascent.

[@resonatinglo]

@@lisdraconis2212 hmm... maybe I should try that , just to see the dialog

[@shaynabrown8235]

Exactly what I was thinking, like??

[@makaylakraus1897]

"All but Cazadore yourself" good lord that line...

[@resonatinglo]

🔥🔥🔥

[@hexkink]

i don’t understand it

[@makaylakraus1897]

@@hexkink ascending astarion makes him a full vampire, stripping away his personality and corrupting it to be more like other vampires, such as cazador. furthermore, through this, ascended astarion is now a cruel abuser, just as cazador was, ultimately fulfilling the cycle of abuse and making astarion the 'cazador' to others now

[@MaryJay1988]

@@makaylakraus1897 wrong. There is NO official proof to that. Neil Newbon said that Ascended Astarion is STILL Astarion, but his worst self.

[@makaylakraus1897]

@@MaryJay1988 even if it's not literally true it is figuratively. He gives up what's left of himself for ultimate power to become an abusive figure like Cazador

[@mighty_claw]

ok that gale reaction was interesting. it feels so off to watch astarion ascend without any of neil's acting behind it.

[@resonatinglo]

Yep. It's all still Neil acting, just not speaking 😅

[@mighty_claw]

@@resonatinglo very true! the personality is still there it's just so quiet 😅

[@resonatinglo]

@@mighty_claw i guess so... some other loud personality is overshadowing the good soft heart 🖤

[@dragongirl1139]

the others: "Shame on you for being stronger" gale: "looking good"

[@resonatinglo]

Some reactions are a bit messed up depending on how the story for the others went before the ritual...🤷‍♀️

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

The way Gale starts off so strongly against evil decisions and then starts to slide towards being okay with chaos and violence if it allows for power is 1, valid given character choices, but also 2, very upsetting

[@dragongirl1139]

@@IrisGlowingBlue guessing u also team blood weave?

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

@@dragongirl1139 Not my jam personally, but I can see why people'd like them. & The name is awesome, very solid hive-mind move

[@Karomix3]

Astarion just got the ultimate power for a vampire, and Gale is attracted to power and dangerous ones too, so no surprise there. I mean the guy is pretty upset at you burning a very powerful but very dangerous tome of necromancy, guess it checks out.

[@ShadowWitch666]

I could never ascend him on his Origin Playthrough, I just don't have the heart, not even for science. Cazador screaming and begging tho!? Delicious, bastard had it coming one way or the other

[@resonatinglo]

I have another video of Cazador begging indeed. Just that dialog tree. As for ascending him, my channel is about exploring the possibilities and showing all possible routs of a scene, so I guess for my science, I had to ascend him. Plus I believe that Ascending him as an origin is the best way to control his abusive ascended self, as it's us who are playing and he can't let loose :D Of course, as it's a single player game mainly, you are free to do anything you like in your campaigns. I just have played a lot of hours now and want to see something different every time, so might as well try the AA from first person 😅

[@ShadowWitch666]

Yes, since it is the player choosing his choices, ascending him gives us more control over his craze for power. And after so many hours and so much content it is only natural to explore everything the game has to offer. I'm still finding new things about the game, it's insane

[@resonatinglo]

@@ShadowWitch666 yes! I know. I haven't found anything new recently, but I have seen a lot of the game that many people have not. I hope that some of my videos are rare finds for people who will never get there or just didn't think to do it "that way" to get "this outcome" 😊

[@cncinc100]

Mamma K saying what needs to be said.

[@resonatinglo]

She does indeed 🔥🖤

[@Infernal460]

@@resonatinglo Mamma K: ...Unlike you im not afraid to to die. New Astarion: Oh *Darling...* There are so many many things worse than *death.*

[@saribeepo.o5111]

@@Infernal460 Absolutely love Karlach... but this is so why it's so hard to not be able to include Durge as a companion for the origin characters because like... seriously? this is why Astarion had problems with heroes to start with. So because he decided to try to take back what was taken from him when heros couldn't be bothered to stop Cazador, he's now the monster that needs to be stopped (his original view point). Similarly in this, because of his situation, it's somehow the ultimate shame that he is allegedly afraid to die (when really we know it's he's afraid to live in torment and oppression, he merely doesn't wish to die)... which is something that is absolutely normal to be afraid of and anyone who wasn't the 'evil vampire who dared to try to get his life back' would get understanding for making poor choices out of such a rational fear. Not having Durge at his side, so there's at least one person who gets what its like to be screwed over in being a monster by default just seems really lonely for our boy. I would probably pay the price for the whole game again to have an option to load the Durge from a finished game to replay with origin characters at the lead. It would be a nice way to reward completed runs, and you know, get around some of the BS that the game tries to MAKE us think is the how it absolutely has to be in a Durge/Tav run when playing the origin characters demonstrates that no, in fact, there are choices in those scenarios.

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

1. I love her so much,, 2. If I had a gold piece for every time that Karlach trusted and cared for charismatic man who betrayed her for arcane knowledge & power in a horrible ritual based around blood and pain,,

[@Infernal460]

@@saribeepo.o5111 Wow long reply, il do my best. Killing Cazador is not enough to reset the scales. Astarion will not be able to live a normal life just killing Cazador. The rituall change Astarion and he still wont be healed. There is no option in game to heal Astarion there is no option to reset his life. But Karlack is no moral arbiter she kills, we kill, Astarion kills. We are all doomed in this game, we take life because we have too. In my first playthrough I let Astarion complete the ritual it was the only sane thing to do. Not moral sane. We need every advantage against the literal gods we are going against, so no I will not let blind mortality kill us all.

[@drschwandi3687]

Jesus the Karlach dialogue is super badass

[@resonatinglo]

She is super badass 🔥

[@gana511]

Personally I think it makes sense for Karlach or even Gale to disprove/be upset. But Laezel? Really? She regularly talks about killing the weak and her memories or murdering other children when she was young. When Zurro is terrified because his friend was gutted in front of him, she's completely indifferent and makes some cold comment about "no twisting? They must have been in a hurry." It makes no sense to me that Laezel wouklld care even a tiny bit about 7 thousand vampire spawn.

[@resonatinglo]

I think someone said only Sharan Shadowheart and Minthara offer to help you with their eyes here, but when Lae'zel happened to me, I think it's just a fail save if you don't have any of the other

[@CavemanBearPig]

Where does she express any grievance toward the death of the 7000 spawn? Her disappointment comes from Astarion’s lust for personal power and gain which can lead to corruption which fits her perspective of ‘for the good of the collective’. Lae’zel may stand for the idea of ‘might makes right’ but it is different-calculated and disciplined-compared to, say, Minthara’s attitude who seeks power at any and all costs.

[@christinegivens6511]

in the beginning Laezel sees culling the weak as ultimately being for the good of the collective, because it allows them to serve their purpose. I think in this scene it would be a version of Laezel who has rejected Vlaakith, and blind obedience to conditioning, so her objection makes sense; but even if she was still loyal to Vlaakith, I don’t think she would see any honor in what Astarion does here. He’s shooting fish in a barrel.

[@veronicashields4405]

Lae’zel was raised in cult think. Pursuing power and culling the weak is fine but only as a matter of serving the greater good (ie creating a collectively stronger society). Killing the spawn isn’t what she’s judging so much as his motivations for doing it. Power consolidated for the self is not the same as power consolidated for the greater whole.

[@gana511]

@christinegivens6511 but it's for the good of HER collective, not THE collective. The Githyanki kill innocent people constantly in the game. It's one of the reasons I always struggled to sympathize with Laezel early on. They are basically "conquering" defenseless humanoid races for being "lesser" beings. If anything, I would have thought she would have been stoked that her ally would become more powerful and, therefore, more likely to defeat the Elder Brain? This is a fictional character and up to interpretation. So I won't argue that you are wrong because you most likely have a better grasp on her character than I do. And I appreciate your perspective. I guess I just viewed that she would see the death of 7 thousand spawn, who are weak and if anything a potential threat to the public and cannot aid you against the Absolute, as a fine exchange if it made an ally who would fight the Absolute stronger. Even later, in the game after she had rejected her queen, I remember her discussing how the useful refugees should be put to work, but the weak and old could basically be culled. Hence, my personal confusion over her even remotely disproving of 7 thousand deaths of undead weak spawns.

[@HellishSpoon]

By the way props to the chazadors voice actor, those were some real visceral screams

[@resonatinglo]

right, i have never thought of that. Neil screams well too, but Cazador also indeed

[@Karomix3]

Cazador forgot to tell Mephistopheles that his soul shouldn't be included in the deal, oops. Means any of his spawns could ahve taken it for themselves if they had been aware of it, or have been able to free themselves of him somehow, unless Mephistopheles hoped that someone would hijack the ritual in Cazador's place to better torment him in hell afterwhat. Really funny how he makes a deal with a devil but someone else can literally take all the rewards in his stead and dooming him to boot, pretty sure Mephistopheles laughed when he saw Cazador among the souls.

[@resonatinglo]

Imagine if he negotiated it like that... with his soul not being part of the deal... the ultimate Black mass... never to be repeated again and no-one can steal it...

[@gagapandega1668]

Lae'zel's dialogue after the ritual is weird, but love that she got your back and is willing to be your eyes to carve the rune

[@resonatinglo]

Some think the other way around. That it was weird that she offered her eyes , but she actually believes in what she says in the end... in any case, there is contradiction for sure, but I think the eyes happen, just so we as players can choose to Ascend him or not.

[@morganmcinroy4211]

Maybe she was okay with torturing cazador before killing him but not completing the ritual?

[@resonatinglo]

@@morganmcinroy4211 😅Maybe🤷‍♀

[@resonatinglo]

@@morganmcinroy4211 yep, maybe

[@smol_angr_void7224]

Got his back lol! I see what you did there! But yeah, the inconsistent actions vs. dialog for Lae'zel here is strange and I'm curious what the thought process behind it is 🤔

[@nathanieljefferies5491]

I can never have him ascend as a companion…it utterly destroys him….but probably origin tho…feels so much more different…playing as astarion, I would have no doubts in my mind that my eternal unlife was leading up to this: the never ending beatings from Godey, the perpetual abuse from Cazador, and all those times my life was never truly mine. But now at this moment, everything will be mine. All of it. I went through all of that so I can finally have it all. If I threw away the ritual, then all that suffering I endured, all the shame….was for nothing…and I had centuries of cazador telling me I was nothing.

[@resonatinglo]

I agree, but it also really depends. If you are gonna do one playthough and stop playing the game, then sure, don't ascend him. I did like 7 campaigns and eventually I of course ascended him , just so I can see all his sides... all the content provided. Because the game is not just one story, it's so many stories and so many points of view 🍷🤷‍♀🔥

[@gana511]

I wish there was an option for Astarion to just drink Cazador's blood before he kills him. He still wouldn't go into the sun, and maybe there could be some other drawback if the developers really want there to be. Killing 7 thousand innocent spawns just for a power up is clearly evil, drinking the blood of 1 horribly abusive vampire you are going kill already? Seems totally fine.

[@resonatinglo]

In the dnd lore the master has to willingly offer his blood in order for the "magic" to work and the spawn to become free of him. Even if they kill the master or just drink his blood, it wont work. I see your point, that it's a game and they can do whatever they see fit as they have done with many things just to fit them in the game, but I guess after many discussions this is what they have decided... killing so many many people is horrible , so hopefully people will have less AA and more spawns in their games 😅🔥🦇

[@gana511]

@resonatinglo I didn't know that! Thanks for the information. It makes a bit more sense now. Still wish it could have been an option, though. But thank you!

[@resonatinglo]

@@gana511 You are most welcome! I have a lore master dnd sage in my discord server and ask him all sort of questions regarding the actual lore of dnd and how it is presented in bg3. Happy to help! And thank you as well! 🌹

[@MaryJay1988]

Nah. He must do it willingly ....

[@Night-lh9xj]

Hey :) I know Latin, was surprised that the words make sense. "Behold the lord, I give you these souls as sacrifices, give me the power you promised." A proper pact with the devil, definitely not something that Cazador came up with on his own... sad, really.

[@resonatinglo]

I mean I am not surprised, but I am also very glad that they actually translated the Latin properly for Neil or Cazador's VA to recite it 👌

[@hexkink]

laezel a real one for showing him the scars

[@resonatinglo]

Right... many people said it's only Shadowheart and Minthara, but Lae'zel surprised me for sure!

[@KarolaTea]

Those reactions are quite interesting. Wouldn't have thought Lae'zel disapproved that much. Her reasoning fits, but so far I thought she had more a 'survival of the fittest' attitude. Gale... well I suppose he is the potential god of ambition, but uh, didn't know he's _that_ morally questionable lol. Hearing always-supportive-and-protective-of-every-companion Mama K have strong words and solid threats is great. Best firey tiefling

[@resonatinglo]

She believes in the good... always at all costs

[@caglayagmurr]

this made me cry ☠

[@resonatinglo]

I am sorry ... 🌈🙈

[@zach942]

its a shame theres no way to make astarion "good" as an ascended vampire, i mean tbh all of the vampires Cazador had abducted died the night of their abduction so the morality behind killing 7000 vampires is a pretty gray area for me

[@Infernal460]

Im glad there is no "good" ascended vampire choice, there should be concequences. A great gift, should have a great price.

[@resonatinglo]

The way to make him "good" is to play him as an Origin. In that case he kinda stays whatever you make of him even as ascended.

[@resonatinglo]

@Infernal460 I agree with you as well! The crown is heavy and all 😅 🦇🧛‍♂️

[@gana511]

I wish there was an option for him to just drink Cazador's blood before he kills Cazador. Astarion even mentions he would become a "real" vampire (turn into mist, have more power and such, be able to turn others into vampires, etc) of he drank Cazador's blood. He says he woukd if he could but he would "settle" for killing Cazador. He still wouldn't be able to be in the sun, and he still would have some drawbacks, etc. Maybe there is even some other trade off (having to be careful about drinking blood from humans, etc) or you have to help him resist the temptation to make his own spawn to rule over, etc. Idk, it just seems ridiculous that that is literally never even mentioned in act 3 after talking about it in act 1.

[@eujisooda]

yea that's the point. circle of violence continues, astarion submits to his darkest (and weakest) and becomes yet another cazador, to the point the narrator calls him a smooth brain. there's no way you can have a cake and eat it too here

[@critical-goat]

I need a moment to nerd out but Something I feel everyone misses when you let Astarion Ascend is that you're not just killing those 7,000 people, they're going to the hells to be tortured in ways only a devil can, to become formless blobs that are often used as the paper a devil's contract is written on, and if they're lucky enough not to be absorbed by the hells, or to die of the agony or brutality, they may one day become a higher form of devil themself. But so very few survive the very environment they are forced into. You're not just killing them, you're subjugating them to more torture and more enslavement. This is not and was never meant to be the morally correct answer. You're not putting them out of their misery, you're amplifying it.

[@resonatinglo]

On the contrary... before they go to the hells to be tortured by the devil... they have been already tortured by their master for 200 years more or less... I don't think it's a huge change for them anyway... the vampiric hunger and what Astarion describes happens to the "waiting" souls for Cazador's ritual... There is always two sides of the coin ...

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

Thank you for the clip! I hate it \o/ (For real, thanks for uploading)

[@resonatinglo]

Thank you! I upload many things that people hate because they hurt, but sometimes that's the reality of things! This game is so deep that hurting and meaningful conversations are valuable lessons!