How Poland Could Have Won In World War II | Alternate History

[@ethanstange4564]

Monsieur Z is easily the best person on this platform. Not only great scenarios but based as hell

[@theraginginfernape9496]

conservative detected.

[@jamesdouglas2145]

Based on what?

[@somerandofilipino6957]

@@theraginginfernape9496 and?

[@christiandauz3742]

If Poland wanted to do better in WW2 or prevent it: -Poland should have supported Czechoslovakia and prevented the Nazis from getting Sudetenland. WW2 starts in 1938, Axis and Soviets defeated by 1941 -Poland should have banned church worship and taxed those churches. Priests and Prisoners turned into Factory workers alongside German Jews fleeing from the Nazis. Artists and Homeless people as well as every tank and plane counts -Poland should have demanded the Vatican donate money, resources and people to the Polish military

[@twojstary5600]

@@jamesdouglas2145 On FBI crime statistics.

[@TheSonofGod1]

The polish AI explaing why they accepted Slovakia for Danzing:

[@SoVega301]

Hearts of Iron IV intensifies

[@vqlcano1698]

The polish player trying to survive be like:

[@googane7755]

Tbh Slovakia has more factories than Danzig so not a bad deal

[@captainsponge7825]

@@googane7755 I highly doubt in that, Gdańsk has a lot of dockyards and one or two factories, while Slovakia is really poor and useless in any kind of strategical resources, as well as it doesn't offer sea access, so this deal is purely political and not profitable for Poland.

[@vqlcano1698]

@@googane7755 In game it might be but if it was irl poland just lost their only access to the ocean

[@theraginginfernape9496]

America after this: I feel like I'm forgetting something Europe: If you forgot about it, it wasn't important America: Yeah, you're right **Japan: Still destroying China**

[@peterroberts4415]

If Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor who knows how this scenario plays out. If Japan still does, they get curb stomped by the US, culminating in a much earlier Operation Downfall. No nukes are dropped, but millions more of Japanese civilians die in this scenario due to the carnage on the islands

[@theraginginfernape9496]

@@peterroberts4415 But think of the Chinese citizens as well and how many would be tormented and killed.

[@Guardias]

@@OfficialJohnnySinsGaming Eh lets be honest here. Without German support Mussolini's Italy wouldn't have lasted even the short time it did in our timeline. The Italian military got trounced in every campaign them embarked upon...the only country they were able to subdue alone was Ethiopia if I recall correctly.

[@globaltheater9343]

@@Guardias And with the necessity of using GAS.

[@FelipeJaquez]

The US would have still stop selling oil to the Japanese in order to deter expansion in this alternative timeline

[@hawkerben1158]

Allies: Poland stop mobilising it may provoke Hitler Hoi4 Poland players: how bout I do anyway

[@chaomingli6428]

Turn fascist first

[@hestio1679]

@@chaomingli6428 it is stupid in hoi4 that u fan ally yourself with germany as fascist poland while in reality polish fascists Saw germany as main danger and wanted to ally soviet Union xd

[@rashawnthegamingmaster8620]

Me: laughs in console commands*

[@rashawnthegamingmaster8620]

@@justacat.1428 it is

[@urmomisgaylmaoo3114]

@@justacat.1428 its technically alternate histroical

[@kaiserwilhelmii674]

I was messing around on a game and I had an Idea. What if the Taiping Rebellion succeeded? That would be weird. A messed up form of Christianity dominates south china?

[@shroapkudavichski4894]

reply for algorithm cause good Idea.

[@МішаКарпенко]

Yes

[@cheatingchamp7904]

Maybe

[@kaiserwilhelmii674]

@@shroapkudavichski4894 Thank you.

[@christianpopulist8207]

Good idea

[@And-lj5gb]

This would've been extremely complicated to pull off successfully, I don't believe it would've ended that well honestly.

[@SirFaceFone]

Hitler would probably betray Poland either way the same way he did with the Soviet Union.

[@zygmuntlllwaza5773]

Yep, this is extremely naïve.

[@DreamsOfLiquidSilver]

I agree that it most likely wouldn't have worked out this way, but z tries to choose the most optimistic/interesting possibility. Poland getting backstabbed by germany first, while more likely, is a much less interesting alternate history

[@clawy99]

@@SirFaceFone to be honest, Hitler would not need Poland in such a scenario. There is enough lebensraum conquered to the east for the next 100 years of German colonization at least, with much more land to the east for the next generation to conquer. The German main objective in Western and Central Europe was to bring it under it's control in form of allied and puppet states, not to conquer it. The actual conquering came out of necessity, like France declaring war, Yugoslavia refusing an alliance, Greece being important strategically, etc. Only exception are Austria and Czech lands, which happened before the war.

[@Kristof1]

@@clawy99 idk, 1 milion polish troops seems like a lot in 1940

[@restitutororbis1216]

Poland: *Uno reverse card*

[@tanapatyangkaew4649]

Germany : I did not see this coming

[@WaterVolt1917]

@@tanapatyangkaew4649 Correction: I did Nazi this coming.

[@Lord_Of_Aether]

@@WaterVolt1917 Ba-dum ching.

[@BalkansMike]

Lol

[@joshuagibson6531]

Japan: Alliance is over

[@Kolateak_]

Poland: Betrays an *alliance with Nazi Germany* and *wins* Universe: You weren't supposed to do that

[@El-s]

Reality itself breaks with the sheer big brain move of Poland

[@krystiandzik9886]

If Poland have allied Germany there would be no Poland left anymore. Its not like poles and germans wolud be treated equally.

[@alexandragamingronyno2275]

Poland in Axis alongside Italy and Romania could tame German ambitions. Sure, none of them can do a 1 vs 1 but I think they could have worked together. Romania asked Poland to keep the pact between them and they rejected it, maybe should have asked to jointly adhere to Axis, that way the whole WW2 doesn't happen. A larger Axis can counter German ideas about European domination and create a Union sooner rather than later. Entering piecemeal was a mistake for most Axis members except a select few.

[@kiyru44]

The TVA:👀

[@niepowaznyczlowiek]

@@krystiandzik9886 Poland would become one of those nazi satellite states like Croatia or Hungary

[@joshuagibson6531]

Poland: defeats Germany Germany: Jaw dropped

[@joshuagibson6531]

A part two is needed

[@ch36799]

Today Polish Military is stronger than German.

[@pan87589]

@@ch36799 Yeah, especially with those 'modernized' soviet era tanks and outdated (German) Leopards. Not talking about the helicopters from the 1980s, the Fleet consisting of donated US 50yo destroyers, and not extending contracts of soldiers and officers just before they hit 15 years service because that would entitle them to all the benefits plus pension. Polish army is doing well in Iraq and Afghanistan, only thanks to the fact that US is fully founding our equipment.

[@fliegendeluftwaffeli835]

if someone suddenly turned the tide against you, this would be dwfinitely your reaction.

[@artruisjoew5473]

@@ch36799 yeah, as a friend of mine who served in the bundeswehr told me: if danmark attacked tomorrow, they’d only stop at the alps. German military is pathetic nowadays.

[@Sean12248]

0:09.....not that anyone cares besides me but that is one of the best mustaches ever.

[@thegeneraljohn2895]

Supposedly, Pilsudski grew such a majestic 'stache as a way to hide two missing teeth of his--which he lost in a fight with Prison Guards while exiled to Siberia. Both Stylish, *and* functional!

[@Reuel-Jazwa]

:) dzięki bracie

[@ȘtefanNothing]

@@thegeneraljohn2895 bruh

[@Dagreatdudeman]

Your forgetting something: Poland at the time had the largest population of Jews in Europe. And there's no way the Nazis would stop acting like Nazis if they got Gdansk.

[@darthcalanil5333]

you can bet that the nazis would turn back on Poland after finishing off the soviet union.

[@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385]

You're

[@unifiedhorizons2663]

well poland could of easily sent there Jews to Turks and that hitler annex czechia which is more Slavic then german

[@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385]

@@unifiedhorizons2663 their

[@unifiedhorizons2663]

@@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385 thy're

[@magicaljagical647]

Hey the winner's secenario of the 2nd contest has been made, cool.

[@MonsieurDean]

You'll have your time soon, Jagical!

[@christiandauz3742]

What if Ancient Sumeria/Egypt Industrialized? Use Time travel if you have to (Endgame style) What if Poland supported Czechoslovakia in 1938 into saying no to the Sudenteland?

[@aleksanderwielopolski8205]

@@christiandauz3742 About the second scenario, it would require from Czechoslovakia to stop glorify USSR, something spoiling the relations with Poland. If Czechoslovakia had done it, then Czechoslovakia could instead develop good relations with Poland and Romania, against respectively Germany and Hungary.

[@threat3071]

This is probably the most unbelievable scenario tbh

[@justAlbert_]

yeah. germany would NOT invade the soviet union in 1939 and even if they did it's not like they'll just leave poland on it's own either stationing troops in strategic areas or occupying the country all together since they're.. y'know.. SLAVS

[@somerandomdude827]

I disagree hitler was interested in a polish alliance and the poles likely woudent cooperate if German troops were stationed there and also what’s to say hitker wouldn’t invade the Soviet’s in 1939 he thought they were easy prey and it would have been easier with polish cooperation

[@maciek_k.cichon]

there was the one with Poland conquering Russia in 17th C. just to became a partitioned and communist state two centuries later. That was wild.

[@ivokantarski6220]

@@somerandomdude827 the Barbarosa operation came after the French defeat and gainz so not like Germany will be as much prepared then. The German army wont be as experienced as it was too. Need a proper expert on economy and war during the period to speak on it not us peasants. France and Britain leaving Germany in peace is a death penalty. I dont buy the communism bad bullshite. Hitler's ego wouldve been so big but the Royal Navy wouldve been still too big and some1 has to take the L eventually. The new being such nice allies has never happent really. America made some of the allies some vassals and so on after they wasted their time in another greater wa.r

[@jth1954]

@@ivokantarski6220 the Soviets were so screwed during this year. A.) it hadn’t recovered from the purge B.) people weren’t happy with Stalin’s rule

[@winterkiller11]

Well good theory, but missed a big facts: Polish and Japan alliance against Russia. - Their intelligence agency were working together, even when Poland was conquered and they were on other sides of war. - Poland was pressured to declare war against Japan, but prime minister Tojo Hideki refused, as it was "forced by allies". - The original plans were for two side attack on Russia, after the red army would get damaged, or destroyed on eastern polish fortifications [most of polish army was there all the time].

[@GreatPolishWingedHussars]

A Polish victory against the Germans was certainly not only theoretically possible, but also practically like in the first sentences of the video it was already explained how Poland could have defeated the Germans. Poland should have simply attacked before the completion of the massive German rearmament. It was also correctly mentioned in the video that Poland has also proposed to the British and French to overthrow the Nazis in Germany through military intervention. The British and French rejected this very sensible Polish proposal. Those were the same fools who betrayed Poland in 1939. In fact, Poland was still superior to the Germans in 1936, so that a preventive attack would have been successful in 1936. Maybe in 1937. By 1938 it was definitely too late because the Germans had been reinforced by Czech resources. In fact, Poland was still superior to the Germans in 1936, so that a preventive attack would have been successful in 1936. Maybe in 1937. In 1938 it was definitely too late because the Germans had been reinforced by Czech resources after the occupation of Czechia. So a Polish preventive attack on Germany definitely had to take place before 1938. But Poland relied on the treacherous allies and no even considered a preventive attack. The British and French declaration of war 1939 against Germany served only for saving face. The British and the French did not intend to keep to the contractual commitment and to attack massively in the west. They wanted to sacrifice Poland for peace with the Germans! They preferred to betray Poland instead of fighting. This was the continuation of British and French appeasement stupid politics of the 30s! The inaction of the French and British was the message to Germany: Be satisfied with Poland. Do not attack us behind the Maginot Line and in the British Isles. We do not attack Germany either! So most British bomber activity was the dropping of propaganda leaflets. The Germans were not at all prepared for a two-front war. The Germans had no chance in two-front war against Poland, French and British! The French and British would only have had to attack massively in the West as agreed and the war would have ended quickly with a victory for Poland, France and the British! But instead they betrayed Poland and did not attack massively in 1939 as agreed. By the way, it's also a myth that the Germans were an economic superpower in the 30's. It was actually obvious that this German government in the 30s for ideological reasons was actually not capable of good economic policy. Because these people thought completely ideologically and the name of the party already indicates bad economic policy. NationalSOCIALISTS! The German government believed in war as the primary engine of human progress, and argued that the purpose of a country's economy should be to enable that country to fight and win wars of expansion. Overall the Nazi economy was a mixed economy that combined free markets with central planning. This is no joke! The goal of the Nazi government was autarky so national economic self-sufficiency. This is really similar to North Korea's economic policy called Chuch'e ideology. But that was logical, if one plans various wars, then the economy must be independent of imports. In any case, I was amazed that commentators and journalists repeatedly gave a positive impression of the German economy of the 30s. As if the German government of the 30s were some kind of economic genius for fighting unemployment. But after the world economic crisis, the world economy recovered and unemployment fell everywhere. In addition, the German government has greatly reduced the number of unemployed through state-financed employment programs and massive rearmament. So everything was not a miracle. The new German Nazi government almost immediately after coming to power, they embarked on a vast program of military rearmament, which quickly dwarfed civilian investment. During the 1930s, Germany increased its military spending faster than any other state in peacetime, and the military eventually came to represent the majority of the German economy in the 1930s. This was funded mainly through deficit financing before the war, and the German government expected to cover their debt by plundering the wealth of conquered nations during and after the war. And such plunder of conquered nations did occur. The German government developed a partnership with leading German business interests, who supported the goals of the regime and its war effort in exchange for advantageous contracts, subsidies, and the suppression of the trade union movement. Cartels and monopolies were encouraged at the expense of small businesses, even though the German government had received considerable support from small business owners. So in the 30s above all t he Germans funded their military with completely indebtedness of Germany! The Germans financed their rearmament program above all on debt. The Germans could not afford that rearmament program and were therefore bankrupt in 1939. Just incidentally, Poland was not bankrupt in 1939 like Germany it was. The Germans have prepared for the war and the war should finance the war for the Germans! The enormous rearming was financed to a large extent through deficit spending, including MEFO bills. After assuming power in 1933, the National Socialists realized that rearming Germany would require funds that were not likely to be generated from taxes or public loans. In addition, the need to keep the rearmament effort secret led to the creation of dummy company. MEFO was the more common abbreviation for a dummy company set up by the Nazi German government to finance the German re-armament effort in the years prior to World War II. This dummy company was set up in May 1933 as a front for purchases from four German armament manufacturers, Krupp, Siemens, Gutehoffnungshütte, and Rheinmetall. Between 1934 and 1938, Mefo bills worth a total of 12 billion National Bank were issued to pay for rearmament. To put that into context, Germany's national debt in 1932, the year before Hitler took power, was only 10 billion Reichsmark. By 1938 the official admitted national debt was 19 billion Reichsmark -- but the Reichsmark 12 billion in Mefo bills has to be added on top of that. In other words, Hitler and the German Minister of Economics, Hjalmar Schacht, tripled Germany's national debt in just six years, but more than half of the increase was off the books. When the MEFO notes fell due in 1938, the government discovered a serious cash shortage. To resolve the problem, the Nazi regime employed “highly dubious methods” where “banks were forced to buy government bonds to be used to repay these bills, and the government took money from savings accounts and insurance companies. This made the ordinary German citizen the financier of the German rearmament. Eventually, the government had to resort to the printing press to help mitigate the cash shortage. This method of financing enabled the Nazi government to obtain large loans from the German National Bank which was prohibited under then existing statutes. Because actually direct lending to the Government by the National Bank had been limited by statute to 100 million National Bank. But the German Nazi government ignored this ban! Between 1933 and 1939, rearmament costs accounted for 60% of German government spending. The plan was to conquer other countries and use the booty from these countries to restructure the state finances.

[@Austria_started_two_world_wars]

​@@GreatPolishWingedHussars dang you thought this through

[@GreatPolishWingedHussars]

@@Austria_started_two_world_wars Thank you for the praise! Greetings from Poland!

[@pollere4926]

I'm using this strategy the next time I do a Poland playthrough in Hearts of Iron IV.

[@brownrice9147]

Did u see the new dev diary? Its crazy

[@kissathegamer4697]

@@brownrice9147 but its another paid dlc!

[@brownrice9147]

@@kissathegamer4697 you don't have to pay for the polish tree, it's free update, just like United And Ready was

[@BolphesarusMaximusWardius]

@@brownrice9147 Still have to pay for the non hist trees tho

[@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385]

Has it worked?

[@PolishTortoise]

Poland: Bro, we gotta do something France: Aight, vacations time, Algeria is beautifyll at this time of year!

[@8napz]

Speedrun defeating Germany in 0.1 seconds.

[@mrnoobs1058]

How many times has Italy switched sides with major and minor wars?

[@vulpes4758]

A Part 2 would be awesome. I feel like this scenario has ALOT of potential.

[@jakegalvin6946]

Great video! Nice to see a member of the us of z's scenario made into a video

[@GcubePlayer8]

Poland seeing the writing on the wall:germany will invade it us it says right there France: damn if only I could read

[@AliThaDude]

What if the Western Roman Empire survived and the Byzantines fell earlier?

[@thorpeaaron1110]

If absence of the Bzyantines the Persians would see this as an opportunity to take the Middle East,the Levant,Asia Minor, and all of Anatolia and Greece this would put them in conflict with the Roman Empire now regulated to its territories in the West.

[@radiooperator3176]

Just to remind you, a panzer division once lost against a polish Calvary division and need infantry to save them.

[@comradesam3382]

The cavalry had anti-tank rifles if you are talking about what I think you do

[@TheSkyGuy77]

They weren't charging tanks on horseback with lances, sadly

[@juniorcrusher2245]

@@comradesam3382 they used the horse as travel and then would get off horseback to position the guns

[@dragonstv5862]

Cavalry legend... Yup, once again. Many countries had cavalry. You know why? For example tanks were useless on swamps in the road to Moscow. Nobody go with horses against tanks. That's simply type of unit. And... If we take a matter way that Germany used motorized brigades and Poles had problem with that... Such people in army are pretty useful.

[@hnorrstrom]

Here it goes again, yes they had horses to travel on, like many units had bikes. Both panzer and cavalry units had many soldiers fighting on their feet anyway, and using artillery to great extent. The poles used Bofors 37mm anti-tank guns and anti-tank rifles and had just as good tanks as the Germans and the Germans had cavalry units in their army.

[@mr.patriotjol]

How Poland could had Won ww2. Ally itself with Germany. Edit: after watching the video. Knew it!!!

[@picardas1638]

Ignoring the fact Hitler saw all slavs, Including poles as subhuman, and hated them almost as much as Jews

[@RaoulDuke789]

@@picardas1638 True, but they could become a strong ally to helping Germany invade the Soviets. If that ever became a success, then definitely Hitler would continue to conquer and destroy the Pols in the aftermath. As he did in this reality.

[@mr.patriotjol]

@@picardas1638 I guess you didn’t get the joke. It’s ok, Poland would’ve allied with the Soviets then.

[@mr.patriotjol]

Also the fact that KZbin removed my comment before is disturbing.

[@meganoobbg3387]

Even then Poland would have won absolutely nothing - exept dying in the russian blizzards for a false promise again. People forget that the "Great purge" is a debuff in Hearts of iron 4, but IRL the main reason the soviets were unprepared was the non-agression pact between Germany and USSR. Soviets had x3 times more planes and tanks than the germans, and they were destroyed before they were even deployed because Stalin didnt expect the germans would break the non-agression pact so early. With the non-agression pact between Germany and the USSR being replaced with an alliance between Poland and Germany, that would be very bad for the germans. All of those tanks and airplanes the soviets lost, in this scenario would be on the polish border and ready. Not to mention the german army was actually very weak until 1940 - when they got support from the soviets to invade France. The only way Germany and Poland could win a war against the soviets in this scenario would be if they get open support from France and Britain.

[@matheuspinho4987]

Polska stronk 💪🇵🇱

[@krolrey1909]

POLSKA GUROM

[@Commissar_Eiven]

Rebel Polska stronger

[@js_munchies]

Deutschland + Polska = mega stronk

[@travishillsthedarkangelbun504]

Poland only became strong after enduring the oppression of Communist rule in my opinion.

[@DreamWalkerVl]

@@travishillsthedarkangelbun504 Damn communists with their centralization, factories and heating, yeah.

[@thefederationoflepion1212]

For Polska!

[@Shusiareed]

Scenarios for future Videos: - What if Frederick the Great and Maria Theresia married (maybe with the extra that these two had also a son who inheritated prussia and austria and Title of holy roman emperor)? This would lead to an Austro-Prussian Empire. You can split this timeline into one where Frederick and Maria had a son and one without a son. I would prefer the first timeline, because i think the second would change little to our timeline :) - What if Germany was unified with prussias greater german solution? - What if Prussia splitted up Austria after the German war and annexed all Habsburg lands into the new german empire? - What if germany backstabed Austria hungary with their war with serbia? - What if the 30 years war never happend? - What if America/the USA became a Monarchie, under Fredericks brothers, after their independence? - What if the Confederacy took over the whole USA and implemented slavery in the north? - What if Germany became communist after ww1? - What if the Qing Empire never fall/never was pushed around by the european powers (Opium wars n stuff)/never lost territory to russia, japan and the europeans - What if Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemberg and Switzerland became Part of the german empire (maybe a Greater German Empire Version with Austria, Bohemia, South Tyrol, Slovenia and Istria+ Switzerland and the Low-Countries)? - What if germany formed earlier like france and britain, maybe due a sucessfull Roman conquest of germania or out of east frankia? - What if Maria Theresias father had a son? - What if the spanish Habsburg never died out? -What if the HRE was able to hold nothern Italy? - What if Catholic christianity never gain influence and was replaced by Orthodox christianity? - What if the jews instead of the Christians became dominant in europe? - What if the US colonized the whole american continent (North and South) - What if Germany kept their Alliance with Russia? - What if an German royal House was on the Russian throne (Like in Britain) - What if Russia was able to colonize further into North America and was able to develope the Region? - What if Luxemburg didn't lost Bohemia? - What if imperial china never fell/ was able to colonize and westernize (Qing on it's largest extent) and so werr able to rival europa and japan/was able to hold them out of their sphere and never lost any territory at all, maybe where also able to grow - What if the Dual Empire between France and Germany happened? Thats a short scenario i saw on reddit. The scenario is like this: A french phyrrhic victory in the battle of Leipzig lead to a Hohenzoller-Bonaparte Alliance. - What if the catholics won the 30 years war? - What if the Netherlands lost their revolution? - What if there was never a spanish Austrian Habsburg split? - What if the Bourbons never took over spain? - What if no european power outside the HRE got involved in the 30 years war? - What if there was never the free and slave state system, instead slavery in all US States? - What if the Lands of Preußen and Pommerian got inherited by the Habsburgs? - What if Karl V never split up his lands between his brother and his son, instead giving Austria, Spain and the HRE to his son? - What if then Yuan Dynasty never fell/ stayed in power until the time where the Qing Dynasty took over? - What if China became Christian? - What if the allies conquered Berlin first? - What if the allies never supported the UDSSR during WW2 instead fight germany independend from Russia? - What if China joined the central powers in ww1? - What if Qing china industrialized in the 1800s? - What if the megaflora and megafauna never died out? - What if the oxygen in the atmosphere never decreased? (Would lead to giant insects) - What if Mexico won the mexican american war? - What if the first mexican empire never fall apart? - What if the Soviet-Union annexed Finland? - What if Russia beat germany in ww1? - What if the Qing Empire won their wars they had until WW1? - What if bulgaria won the balkan war? - What if italy joined the central powers? - What if Frederick the Great never existed? - What if Austria never got Hungary? - What if Caesar wasn't assasinated? - What if Aurelian wasn't killed? - What if Prussia annexed also the Jutland or all of Denmark? - What if Barbarossa was a sucess, so a quick soviet defeat/collapse in 1941 or 1942 - What if Alexander the great never died early? - What if the persians beat the greeks? - What if Alexander the great never existed? - What if Prussia didn't lost their polish lands after Napoleon? - What if Prussia beat Napoleon? - What if Himmler/the SS dethroned Hitler before WW2 or before Barbarossa and took over Germany? - What if Edward VIII never abdicated and empowered the Kings Party? - What if Israel took/kept the sinai peninsula?

[@Scourge-of-God]

How much time do you have??

[@shohaibnawaz4432]

Go outside

[@tearem9703]

Pov: you havent see sunlight in 3 years

[@alwarado]

Good job for coming up with all of these!

[@Pigraider268]

There is quite a lot of scenarios here... Time to do them justice :) WARNING THIS COMMENT WILL BE HEAVILY EDITED 1. Pretty unlikely taking into consideration the archcatholic nature of Habsburgs and protestant Hohenzollerns being their direct rivals for influence in HRE. 2. Greater German conception was the Austrian conception of German unification not Prussian. Prussia preferred Germanization while Austria was more tolerant to other nations. It was basically "What if all German nations were united by Austria-Hungary without losing any minorities in a process?" If Prussia would realize this conception they would germanized other nations as well. 3. You asked about the same thing that in the second question xd 4. Good question, but it would probably mean that Austro-Hungary would lose and war would end much earlier never becoming Great War in a first place. Consequences for Austria-Hungary wouldn't be probably as harsh as in our timeline as well. 5. Actual good question worthy of a video :) 6. Idk why, but it's really bizzare scenario, so it's hard to predict it. 7. That was not the aim of Confederates. They wanted secession, but if it happened they would probably be similar to Brazil in our history. They would eventually abolish it. 8. Again really good question here :) 9. That mean they woul have to westernize. If that would happen they would become Japan, but stronger, so they would probably just take their place even if Japanese would also westernize. 10. It would be just HRE 2: Electric Boogaloo ;) 11. Again it's too unpredictable, but that would probably mean they wouldn't been Germans in a first place, but rather some Romance nation similar to French. 12. AEIOU probably 13. If they would "never" died out they would be ruling to this day :) 14. That is a weird question why would they be able to hold it. You are not state any reasoning here. It's hard to aswer 15. World would be dominated by Byzantines or Romans. Latin wouldn't be so far spread, because of autocephalic nature of religion it would probably mean no Reneiscance, cause people would speak their native languages already it would probably lead for Europe and potentially Americas to write in Cyrillic. 16. We would still wait for the Messiah or we would acknowledge Great Person (Leader or Thinker) as a promised one. It is really big alt hist question which cannot be answered easily. 17. I mean they kind of did 18. When? 19. Wouldn't really change much. In fact Russian Imperial dynasty was actually the german house, cause Catherine the Great was German and her descendants rule who were not children of her Russian Romanov husband. 20. They would be superpower probably, but it could also end up with colony/colonies splitting from mother nation like US or Canada. It's too open question. 21. It depends weather you're talking bout a dynasty or country. 22. The same thing you asked in question 9 ;) 23. Play the mod if author came up with it they surely have some ideas about it :) 24. Thirty years war wasn't really Catholics vs Protestants, but more of Habsburgs and allies vs rest of Europe, so most likely it would be AEIOU again :) 25. They would probably share more history with Belgium. 26. It depends why they wouldn't be one. Weather it is because Spanish Habsburgs never came to be or because Karl V never split his empire. Hard one to anwer 27. Habsburgs would rule longer, maybe replaced later by someone else. 28. Pretty unlikely, but even if noone outside would be participated it's hard to predict who would win. Maybe it would end after the first phase, cause 30 Years War had 4 stages 29. They would abandon it eventually 30. AEIOU probably. Noone would threaten Austrian position in HRE. They could realise Greater Germany or centralise HRE. 31. AEIOU or eventual dissolution of the Empire. It's hard to speculate. It all depends on rulers after him :) 32. Idk, but I doubt it would change much. Maybe good idea for video or maybe play EUIV and find out yourself ;) 33. It all depends when. It's to broad to speculate without this information. 34. All of Germany would be allied ocuppied probably. 35. Centrals would probably still lose, cause China wasn't a major power back then, similar to the Ottoman Empire, and Japan was in Entente btw 36. Asking the same questions all over again :P Check 9 :) 37. That's not alternative history. If something then maybe alternative prehistory :P You cannot reliably predict things that happened before humans 38. You answered yourself. Again it's not alternative history. Althist question would be: "What if people never used freon?" Alt hist questions are always abou people what they could do differently or not at all ;) 39. They would be bigger. 40. If they "never" fall apart they would be empire till this day :) 41. Finland would share fate with other soviet puppets/socialists republics. 42. Good question. They would probably stayed monarchist maybe becoming constitutional monarchy later on. 43. If they won every war before WWI they would have been unbeatable. There is no single unbeatable nation in entire world's history. So they would probably be ultra powerful super power. 50. X I don't have enough knowledge to anwer this question (yet) X 51. There already many videos about that 52. There would be someone else. You cannot predict it. Prussia wouldn't be probably as much powerful as in our timeline. Maybe AEIOU? 53. Then Jagiellonians would have it probably. Poland-Lithuania-Hungary 54. I think there are videos about that and it's pretty complicated 55. X I don't have enough knowledge to answer this question (yet) X 56. It depends weather they annexed Jutland or all of Denmark and why? 57. TNO, Man in the High Castle or Wolfenstein scenarios 58. He would die later :P There is ton of videos about that... 59. It would be massive turning point really hard to predict taking into consideration that Hellenic/Greek heritage is one of the foundations of modern European identity. 60. I believe there are videos abou that as well. If I have to take a guess, probably of everything went as in our history it wouldn't matter that much cause Rome and Persia would conquer corresponding unhellenized states as well. 61. Probably more land would be affected by Germanization attempts. 62. ...but it's not alt history they beat him... 63. Hitler wasn't ever a monarch so he could not have been "dethroned" :P 64. Play HoI IV. King was sympathising with Nazis, but that doesn't mean that because of that Britain would side with Germany it could, but it doesn't mean that. 65. They would have even more ethnic problems rn. I can't believe I answered them all (almost) :P But I'm locked anyway so whatever. Some of your questions are dumb, not alt history or just badly formulated. I don't want follow up questions tho :P

[@jansobieski8414]

"Unrealistic Roleplay" *Proceeds to void 2 hours of building up*

[@Arcaryon]

One reason why I like alternative history because it is like a contest to see how well one understands the original war and how much one has to change events to create a totally different outcome.

[@tim_779]

Last time I was this early Alexander the Great won at Arbela

[@frankwalder3608]

This was one of your more interesting videos. I have been researching and writing about what I call the Munich War over the past several years. It is a war of Poland and Czechoslavakia against Germany starting in October 1938. I had planned to eventually play it out using a modified version of the Case White module in the Europa series. This was to be the first of three parts of my alternate time line culminating in a war of the Soviet Union and Japan against Australia, Britain, Dutch, and French(ABDF) starting in late 1943.

[@GreatPolishWingedHussars]

Yes, with Czechoslovakia there could have been a victory against Germany for Poland in 1938. But in the first sentences of the video it was already explained how Poland could have defeated the Germans also without Czechoslovakia. Poland should have simply attacked before the completion of the massive German rearmament. It was also correctly mentioned in the video that Poland has also proposed to the British and French to overthrow the Nazis in Germany through military intervention. The British and French rejected this very sensible Polish proposal. Those were the same fools who betrayed Poland in 1939. In fact, Poland was still superior to the Germans in 1936, so that a preventive attack would have been successful in 1936. Maybe in 1937. By 1938 it was definitely too late because the Germans had been reinforced by Czech resources. In fact, Poland was still superior to the Germans in 1936, so that a preventive attack would have been successful in 1936. Maybe in 1937. In 1938 it was definitely too late because the Germans had been reinforced by Czech resources after the occupation of Czechia. So a Polish preventive attack on Germany definitely had to take place before 1938. But Poland relied on the treacherous allies and no even considered a preventive attack. The British and French declaration of war 1939 against Germany served only for saving face. The British and the French did not intend to keep to the contractual commitment and to attack massively in the west. They wanted to sacrifice Poland for peace with the Germans! They preferred to betray Poland instead of fighting. This was the continuation of British and French appeasement stupid politics of the 30s! The inaction of the French and British was the message to Germany: Be satisfied with Poland. Do not attack us behind the Maginot Line and in the British Isles. We do not attack Germany either! So most British bomber activity was the dropping of propaganda leaflets. The Germans were not at all prepared for a two-front war. The Germans had no chance in two-front war against Poland, French and British! The French and British would only have had to attack massively in the West as agreed and the war would have ended quickly with a victory for Poland, France and the British! But instead they betrayed Poland and did not attack massively in 1939 as agreed. By the way, it's also a myth that the Germans were an economic superpower in the 30's. It was actually obvious that this German government in the 30s for ideological reasons was actually not capable of good economic policy. Because these people thought completely ideologically and the name of the party already indicates bad economic policy. NationalSOCIALISTS! The German government believed in war as the primary engine of human progress, and argued that the purpose of a country's economy should be to enable that country to fight and win wars of expansion. Overall the Nazi economy was a mixed economy that combined free markets with central planning. This is no joke! The goal of the Nazi government was autarky so national economic self-sufficiency. This is really similar to North Korea's economic policy called Chuch'e ideology. But that was logical, if one plans various wars, then the economy must be independent of imports. In any case, I was amazed that commentators and journalists repeatedly gave a positive impression of the German economy of the 30s. As if the German government of the 30s were some kind of economic genius for fighting unemployment. But after the world economic crisis, the world economy recovered and unemployment fell everywhere. In addition, the German government has greatly reduced the number of unemployed through state-financed employment programs and massive rearmament. So everything was not a miracle. The new German Nazi government almost immediately after coming to power, they embarked on a vast program of military rearmament, which quickly dwarfed civilian investment. During the 1930s, Germany increased its military spending faster than any other state in peacetime, and the military eventually came to represent the majority of the German economy in the 1930s. This was funded mainly through deficit financing before the war, and the German government expected to cover their debt by plundering the wealth of conquered nations during and after the war. And such plunder of conquered nations did occur. The German government developed a partnership with leading German business interests, who supported the goals of the regime and its war effort in exchange for advantageous contracts, subsidies, and the suppression of the trade union movement. Cartels and monopolies were encouraged at the expense of small businesses, even though the German government had received considerable support from small business owners. So in the 30s above all t he Germans funded their military with completely indebtedness of Germany! The Germans financed their rearmament program above all on debt. The Germans could not afford that rearmament program and were therefore bankrupt in 1939. Just incidentally, Poland was not bankrupt in 1939 like Germany it was. The Germans have prepared for the war and the war should finance the war for the Germans! The enormous rearming was financed to a large extent through deficit spending, including MEFO bills. After assuming power in 1933, the National Socialists realized that rearming Germany would require funds that were not likely to be generated from taxes or public loans. In addition, the need to keep the rearmament effort secret led to the creation of dummy company. MEFO was the more common abbreviation for a dummy company set up by the Nazi German government to finance the German re-armament effort in the years prior to World War II. This dummy company was set up in May 1933 as a front for purchases from four German armament manufacturers, Krupp, Siemens, Gutehoffnungshütte, and Rheinmetall. Between 1934 and 1938, Mefo bills worth a total of 12 billion National Bank were issued to pay for rearmament. To put that into context, Germany's national debt in 1932, the year before Hitler took power, was only 10 billion Reichsmark. By 1938 the official admitted national debt was 19 billion Reichsmark -- but the Reichsmark 12 billion in Mefo bills has to be added on top of that. In other words, Hitler and the German Minister of Economics, Hjalmar Schacht, tripled Germany's national debt in just six years, but more than half of the increase was off the books. When the MEFO notes fell due in 1938, the government discovered a serious cash shortage. To resolve the problem, the Nazi regime employed “highly dubious methods” where “banks were forced to buy government bonds to be used to repay these bills, and the government took money from savings accounts and insurance companies. This made the ordinary German citizen the financier of the German rearmament. Eventually, the government had to resort to the printing press to help mitigate the cash shortage. This method of financing enabled the Nazi government to obtain large loans from the German National Bank which was prohibited under then existing statutes. Because actually direct lending to the Government by the National Bank had been limited by statute to 100 million National Bank. But the German Nazi government ignored this ban! Between 1933 and 1939, rearmament costs accounted for 60% of German government spending. The plan was to conquer other countries and use the booty from these countries to restructure the state finances.

[@Gaavcio]

Was this scenario submited by Taureor? :D

[@theexam7394]

Now I know why this scenario has a big Order 66 vibe.

[@이동연-c6d]

Yes! This the one of the Alternate History that I want to see it! Thanks, Mr.Z to make this good AU video. :) :D

[@thelunchking1467]

i want to see mexicen empire beat US of murica

[@thelunchking1467]

@@Adrian-kb4rg its simular to the ottoman empire but many historians did it the idk name i forgot historian gav the japanese empire napolian/hanable generals to beat the US technacly its imposible but they did it same with the austrian kinda disorginized and very very unstable

[@thelunchking1467]

@@Adrian-kb4rg if i think about it i maybe know how they culd have survived or won either they get buffed like the others or not attack the group of americans sended by the US or USA gets a none childish man

[@thelunchking1467]

my wish came true, kinda

[@tasmaniansyrup1645]

I think this is an interesting but unlikely scenario for a few reasons: 1. The Polish guarantee was just a pretense for a British/French strike against Germany (0they did not honor the guarantee when the Soviets struck Poland, this was again just a geo-political maneuver for a war against Germany specifically). If Germany did not take the bait/made a deal with Poland the Western Allies would have found some other justification to get a war with Germany. They stopped appeasement the moment they felt they had the military means to oppose German expansion. 2. There is no way Germany would allow Poland to be anything close to an equal partner in this relationship. The animosity the Poles felt for the Germans was mutual, the German regime would view the Polish government and people at best with suspicion and slight contempt and thus would get its hooks in to its government down to its military command structure. Over a few years they would gradually become a essentially a vassal while Germany stripped away any claimed territories. This is the reason this Polish did not cede the corridor IRL, they could see where this was going. 3. Yeah the Soviets were more unprepared in 1939, but so were the Germans and Polish. There is no guarantee of a better/worse outcome for Germany here, in fact the German high command wanted to delay any war as long as possible to properly rearm.

[@_casanova]

What if Qing China westernized and won against both Russia and Japan? (Winning against Japan as in Japan not getting Taiwan and Korea)

[@louiswu6300]

Industrialized is enough. No need to be westernized. China has a lots inner issues at that time. Just like middle east right now.

[@_casanova]

@@louiswu6300 Yes, but I was saying what if. The main purpose of Alternate History Channels. If China westernized, I think it would be pretty interesting, obviously this would have to take place before the Boxer Rebellion, as Western Powers would simply just dogpile on China again. But if China was able to beat the Western Powers coalition, I think there is great chance they might just continue to take their old territory Russia had taken. Japan might just collapse again, seeing that a centralized government didn't work. Either that or Japan is annexed fully or turned into a puppet state of Qing. Would Qing go after British India and French Indochina?

[@louiswu6300]

@@_casanova You don't need to make make any if. Because in near future. You will witness it by your own eyes.

[@_casanova]

@@louiswu6300 Are you implying China will become the next superpower? Just because China is getting stronger, doesn't mean there isn't a new superpower unboiling, look at India. They will soon pass China even if China makes all the child policies they want. Not to mention China's armies, they are terrible. The CLA is probably the largest and the worst army in the world. China is living in the past, claiming old territory and still trying to use superior numbers. I predict China will be like Nazi Germany, strong in the beginning, but then the people get tired and then it becomes a total collapse of Government. Even if China was able to reign supreme, they would have to make so many changes to Pax Americano, where they gave freedom of speech in a ton of countries. People won't just give that up freely.

[@zyairjames6700]

@@_casanova someone did it look up

[@algernonilfracombe]

Last time I was this early, Poland was not yet lost...!

[@anthonygaiman4815]

Poland was never lost

[@unilajamuha91]

Jeszcze Polska nie zginela

[@KamepinUA]

Poland: "Annexes even more of Ukraine" UPA: "We do a little trolling"

[@frogge8495]

One minor thing to note is that Germany never claimed the Polish corridor nor desired Poland to hand it over. The issue was strictly about the city of Danzig with proposals to build an ex-territorial railway between Prussia and Germany. The port of Gdynia, north-west of Danzig was explicitly mentioned as the new staple port of Poland upon ceding Danzig. Whether they'd give Poland the Czechoslovakia treatment is up for debate but there are no official documents proving this theory

[@thxcaze1416]

I don’t think it is even near possible. I think you would notice if an army disappears from the battlefield and attack your hometown instead and also I don’t think they would leave there border to France unprotected. There would be thousands or millions of German soldiers station in Poland because Poland needed to be crossed to get through the Sovjet Union.

[@DogDogGodFog]

Not if Poland was allied with Nazi Germany though. Which is what this video is about

[@SusCalvin]

@@DogDogGodFog The relation between Germany and her allies around Europe isn't very functional. They still have their ideals about a racial hierarchy where ethnic germans are on top of every other european, who can end up as a client state at best.

[@DogDogGodFog]

@@SusCalvin Yeah that's a fair point.

[@SusCalvin]

@@DogDogGodFog In this one, you need a reason for why Molotov-Ribbentropp fails or never happens. Which isn't unreasonable, they are paranoid about bolshevik infiltrators. Minor nations with a lot more genuine enthusiasm for Germany end up treated as client states, and this assumes Poland would get some kind of preferential treatment from the NSDAP. They have their relations with puppet governments in Norway and Belgium, and fascists in Spain and Italy.

[@TheMovieClipGuy69]

Couldnt Germany go through Prussia? I dont think Poland would allow german troops on its territory at that time

[@beniaminorzechowski9913]

Good video Good channel Overall good content

[@floatingf8783]

How Poland could have won in World War II? Simple, by getting the Nazis as high as Monsieur Z was when he thought up this scenario.

[@Hilts931]

Britain and France had major debts to repay and the horror of losing a generation in the First World War. They would have done most things to not have to fight Germany again and, looking at this position in the 30’s without hindsight, wasn’t a ridiculous thought process.

[@iansneddon2956]

And yet they ultimately realized that they had to. Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1939 was the final outrage, after which Britain was full-on military expansion and switching to a war economy. The next time Hitler pushed his luck, France and Britain declared war.

[@dragonstv5862]

France was beating world trough many centuries. That's not excuse for anyone, sorry. You let someone to be stronger than you with his expansion theory because you don't want wars anymore. Belarus could say something like this, Kosovo can. But France? Seriously?

[@Hilts931]

@@dragonstv5862 It’s happening more and more, especially with warfare as destructive as it is in modern times. Look at the China-US power balance in the last two decades alone as an example.

[@dragonstv5862]

@@Hilts931 If you do nothing next conflict could be worse so. If you don't prepare you'll end twice sadlier. Like in that conflict between China and USA. :D A fear isn't excuse. It is a fact of history but not excuse.

[@Hilts931]

@@dragonstv5862 of course it is - France capitulated so quickly to avoid the destruction of its cities by the Luftwaffe like Rotterdam was in the Netherlands and Warsaw in Poland. Fear is a massive reason - hence the political inaction and appeasement in the 30s and military expenditure on the line. The west didn’t want another war because the first was so destructive.

[@luigieverlasting305]

I've played enough HOI4 to know where this is going

[@JackOLennaAcademy]

0:16 Poland: I guess this was a hint of, “I TOLD YOU SO”

[@cedricdalbalcon5999]

This is probably the most unrealistic scenario yet Still enjoyed it doe👍

[@kingmac6638]

Lol none of this would've worked out like that at all but it is always fun to theorize Good vid

[@captainsponge7825]

hey, there's even a Polish book about this alt-history scenario in particular, it's called "Pakt Ribbentrop-Beck" by Piotr Zychowicz. basically a lot of clear fiction and anecdotes, but still really interesting and I think some people might enjoy reading about that.

[@Yuudaddy]

It sure was and it kind of lines up with what my Grandmother had told me. I also feel like people here are forgetting how weak the Soviets were in 1939. They lost a war to Finland for crying out loud and historians seem to agree that that loss was a wake-up call for the Soviets and forced them to reform their army.

[@Ciech_mate]

Cool concept, thanks

[@yousaywhatnow2195]

Would be interesting to see a mr. Z scenario in which “the King’s party” successfully gained power in the UK without the Edward abdication. Would be interesting to see a “realistic” scenario that’s not just a Hoi4 tech tree.

[@yousaywhatnow2195]

@Chimbala Kalaswa can I get a link? I don’t remember one focusing specifically on that.

[@RickJohnyALL-PROProcue]

King's party wasn't a party. Its members never met. It was simply a name given by English media to men supporting the Crown during the crisis.

[@vigilantsycamore8750]

How Poland Could Have Won WW2: 1. I build a time machine 2. I travel back in time to the 1920s and give Piłsudski fighter jets, computers, other future tech (mostly from the late 40s so it's not too difficult to reverse-engineer) and a history book 3. Somehow I make sure he lives long enough to beat Hitler's ass

[@Adumbshiba]

Fucking give him ak 47 and M1 abrams but also you would need to get more petrolum

[@bcs2em625]

Love Monsieur Z’s videos. Only thing as a suggestion would be if the scenario deals with small countries in Europe, maybe switch to a regional map. No need to show the whole globe and try to squint to see tiny dots changing color in Europe while the rest of the world remains constant. No need to see the Western Hemisphere or the Far East, Australia and Africa until they enter the discussion.

[@ezekielrayfield1512]

Poland : UNO REVERSE CARD BITCHES

[@andrewholt1040]

How could Poland win WWII? Taureor: I will just execute order 66 on my German ally

[@franklinclinton4539]

It's beautiful. I've looked at this for 5 hours now

[@dino8dan565]

Anyone who plays Hearts of Iron knows this would end badly for the poles smh

[@Deridus]

......... Sadly, yes.

[@mappingshaman5280]

didn't end badly in my game. Germany became part of the greater polish empire and all of russia up to the urals was made a direct part of the new axis (I was fascist) / warsaw pact/ miedzymorze

[@madcat789]

Alternate Cody gives me good stories and Alternate Universe ideas.

[@justinambru8529]

You can also cover some of the other us color code plan. Such as war plane red-orange war between us and a British-Japanese alliance. And war plan white, fighting against insurgents.

[@pepenero6168]

These alternate histories are quite underdeveloped because you always spend at least half the video giving context

[@markoscream8466]

Great job to the fan who won that other contest. It's a pretty interrsting scenario. Since we're on the topic of fan-made stuff, I'll ask one more time and won't bother anymore after that. Will the first contest winners' work EVER be published, including mine? The due date was february, it's the end of april now

[@MonsieurDean]

Ah, you mean the alternate countries contest? That had been in the works for a while, but it is finally done!

[@markoscream8466]

@@MonsieurDean Wonderful!!! I can't wait! Please tell me you were able to save my re-written story... Do maintain your health and watch out when you go outside!

[@Chosen_Ash]

Germany wouldn’t let Poland take that much

[@Daniel-jm7ts]

I don't get the theory in the beginning. It says that the allies wanted Germany to ignore them and start a war with the soviets first, but if that is ture, why did they declear war on Germany at moment they invaded poland. Why would they make themselves a target?

[@grekusPotatus]

In our timeline The West had guaranteed Polish independence after the German violation of the Munich treaty. Also this theory was suggested and there are more mainstream interpretations.

[@fabio8415]

1:33 : German border is wrong. They lost Elsaß-Lothringen after WW1

[@ccityplanner1217]

Chwała dla Polski! | Glory to Poland!

[@Cool-123]

Good job Radoslaw (this is galvius btw)

[@andrewpawlowski2027]

This is the optimal timeline.

[@maciek_k.cichon]

I have my doubts, all that Ukrainian and Lithuanian insurgency would ruin day to day life and economy down the road.

[@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051]

Yes for all but the Germans who got betrayed

[@davidkueny2444]

*Both* godless commies *and* heretic nazis getting completely screwed over by Catholic Poles? *Absolutely* the best timeline.

[@gayanudugampola8973]

We need a part 2 for this.

[@dariusonly1384]

Incredibly blessed timeline.

[@KarakuriPekora]

In my opinion, it would be almost impossible for Hitler to not notice what the Poles have been plotting. Poland would very likely end up being occupied like Hungary in the real timeline.

[@mareklame8589]

Why do you show Jozef Pilsudski who died in 1935, when you talk about 1939.

[@TheAmbasador99]

I know you won't read this on a several months old video, but I *need* further reading! This is very interesting.

[@joshuawaldorf9559]

What if Brazil kept its monarchy?

[@ryanholder7728]

Fun fact: It was Der Fuhrer’s birthday yesterday

[@TheSkyGuy77]

This enraged his father, who punished him severely.

[@Alvraf]

@@TheSkyGuy77 I haven't actually seen the video, since it's blocked in my country, but nice Oversimplified reference

[@Gwebb74]

Knew this from hoi4, join Germany let the Soviets declare, beat soviets, leave axis declare on Germany

[@nuggy8268]

Here’s a scenario you could do What if my dad came back

[@thedarkwolf2525]

Fucking gold

[@daMacadamBlob]

here is how bernie can still win

[@HappyHussar]

I majored in history and took a WW2 class in college. We played a map based strategy and politics game of the 30s and WW2. I was assigned to play as Poland, weirdly enough this is the nearly the same tactic that I used to win the game. I played Germany and Russia against each other and ultimately helped Germany and Italy invade Russia and the Balkans. Then I switched tracks and helped France and Britain consolidate in the Middle East, while they held of Germany. Then I cut Germany off by taking Denmark and invading on two fronts. Things got weird though after France and Britain were weakened by Germany because then I invaded half of France and blockaded the British from the North Sea, Baltics, and half of the Mediterranean.

[@etho7351]

You should do one were the Western powers allow Germany to invade Poland as long as they invade the Soviet Union

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

They basically did but.

[@RESIST_DIGITAL_ID_UK]

This would be the best timeline. No nazis. No soviets. Less destruction and no Cold War.

[@Aryan-bv2mj]

There are some mistakes... Don't underestimate Germany... They may rather sign an armistice with Germans.

[@acolytesun]

🤔 *promptly logs into HOI4*

[@1Reevee]

As a pole I approve

[@triggeredmuch1024]

Where did Germany get the equipment to do Barbarossa so early on? They would be so short on trucks for supply lanes as they advance east. It makes no sense

[@ladahieno2382]

"Świeć gwiazdo świeć, nie żałuj blasku polskiej ziemi Nagrodą jest patronkę w Tobie mieć Victorię głoś, sama z istoty swych promieni... Wybrali nas dzisiaj na Pospolitą Rzecz!"

[@megakev321]

Its true, Poland and Germany were actually really friendly before the invasion.

[@achistorian6978]

What if Optimates won Caesar’s Civil War ?

[@amehak1922]

Please do a part 2!

[@aspenryder5091]

I would be interested to see where the timeline would/could go after this scenario. Would Europe even care about a Pacific Ocean War? Would Russia and the USA ally with one another against Japan? What would become of China?

[@taavidude]

Poland: Haha, with this strategy we can beat Germany and win WW2 Soviet Union breathing down Poland's neck: Hello.

[@big_guy_of_leiden5688]

What if the Kronstadt uprising was successful

[@zyanego3170]

Anarcho-Syndicalist USSR

[@gnas1897]

Probably a zone that the Bolsheviks would allow to be independent with a different ideology

[@martan1414]

I'd like to point out, that Poland truly did have a way to prevent ww2. It was called 'don't gang up on Czechoslovakia'

[@Lens15]

USSR: Doing basically nothing France England and Germany: DANGER

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

If by doing basically nothing you mean conquering Ukraine and attacking Poland and Estonia, then later conducting large-scale genocide (Holodomor) and ethnic cleansings (various operations of NKVD) and forming the biggest army in the world then yes. USSR was doing basically nothing.

[@gnas1897]

@@kamilszadkowski8864 1. Ukraine was land which already belonged to the Russian empire. 2. The cause of the holodomor is still heavily disputed. 3. Can you please provide examples of ethnic cleansing? 4. If you were invaded by every major power just a few years ago then yes, it would make perfect sense to create a huge army

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@gnas1897 " Ukraine was land which already belonged to the Russian empire." --- The end of the Great War established a rule of self-determination of nations. Ukrainians and Poles living there didn't want to be a part of Soviet Russia. They were invaded. Also, weren't bolsheviks supposedly against imperislism? "The cause of the holodomor is still heavily disputed." --- It is not disputed at all. The only thing disputed is the number of victims. "Can you please provide examples of ethnic cleansing?" --- Sure. Plenty of them from the time of the Great Terror. The so-called ethnic operations of NKVD for example aimed to liquidate members of suspicious ethnicity. Examples: - The order of the NKVD No. 00485 - people's commissar for internal affairs, Nikolai Yezhov, dated August 11, 1937, which was the basis for a large-scale arrest of Poles in the USSR in 1937-1938. (So-called Polish operation of NKVD) -NKVD order No. 00439 - NKVD order issued on July 25, 1937, which was the basis for the commencement of the "German NKVD operation", that is, a large-scale action of arresting Germans in the Soviet Union in 1937-1938. There were more actions like this, targeting members of specific ethnicities, but Poles and Germans were the majority of victims. "If you were invaded by every major power just a few years ago then yes, it would make perfect sense to create a huge army" --- Yeah, apparently large quantities of paratroopers and light tanks with christie suspension are just terrific for defensive operations.

[@gnas1897]

@@kamilszadkowski8864 1. This is why Lenin created the USSR, to allow different SSRs to have some say in what happens in them. 2. The cause of the holodomor IS disputed. Not only was there a bad drought at the time but in order to resist/protest collectivisation, kulaks burned much of their grain and killed their livestock. Obviously, the liquidation of the kulaks was badly done and innocents died during the arrests/deportations of the kulaks. At least though, they did something and the famine ended early. 3. The purges were messed up, not gonna lie. 4. What's wrong with developing agile tanks and investing in paratroopers? When you fight a war you cannot just defend. The Soviets were also trying a lot of new technology at the time. Notice how many tanks like the BTs and KVs started being developed in the mid to late 30s? The Nazis were anti commie so the soviet union had to start preparing for a possible invasion.

[@G0TIMAN]

There is a whole book dedicated to this. It's called "The Ribentrop-Beck pact".

[@G0TIMAN]

But it's not that optimistic.

[@thespanishinquisition8617]

The big question is what effect does this have on the holocaust?

[@wojciechkowalski8061]

Most likely the Jewish population in the Germany would suffer as in the real history. In Poland, with a significant Jewish population (and Jews forming a large part of our middle class at the time) there might be some increased persecution to appease Germany for a time, but likely nothing too severe or significant as this would potentially destabilize the nation, and Poland was a bit too economically Independent and had a bit too strong military to bend over to all German demands. On the other hand, increased persecution and allying with notoriously anti-Jewish nation could drive some Polish Jews into the USSR-backed terrorist groups and communist guerillas, which in turn would increase persecutions, which would drive more of them into desperation and so on... It is difficult to say anything for certain. I don't know also what would be the situation in minor Axis powers (like Hungary and Romania), though they were more reliant on Germany economically and thus more likely to follow their policies. Best case scenario, most of center and eastern european Jews would get by without suffering from the attrocities of concentration camps, though most likely suffering major persecution for a time. In the occupied Soviet territories the fate of the local Jews would propably depend on which army has occupied the area.

[@thespanishinquisition8617]

@@wojciechkowalski8061 thank you

[@sirnilsolav6646]

One thing you should take note of is that if Poland had first gone with Germany, Japan might have gone with the Northern plan instead. Japan and Poland had originally planned on a joint invasion of the Soviet Union and Japan had planned to use the Gulag inmates and Kulak special settlements to gain support and recruits against the Soviets. The main reason why Japan did not do this was because they did not think they could fight the Soviets on their own. Poland had signed a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union and they wished to maintain peace with the Soviets if war could be avoided. If Poland had been more inclined to invade the USSR, Japan might have attacked from the East

[@susangoaway]

4:00 Why didn't you mention the fact that the Soviets were ALLIED with Germany? They both invaded the Second Polish Republic in 1939. The Soviets were the reason why the government decided to flee in the end, since the Soviet's aim was to capture and execute them by starting an offensive on Lwów, which was meant to be the last line of defense against the Germans with already prepared fortifications.

[@susangoaway]

@@doriandibaj8111 They were allied in the Invasion of Poland, which makes it fully true. They even had a joint victory parade in Lwów I believe.

[@viceguy4880]

The Soviet Union was not an ally of Germany, the Red Army and the German Army did not have any cooperated military operations. The Soviet Union attacked Poland to move its borders further west to protect more territories formerly belonging to the Belorussian SSR and the Ukrainian SSR (which were taken by Poland during the 1919-1921 Soviet-Polish War) from the Germany due to the imminent war.

[@dragonstv5862]

@@viceguy4880 XD... No. Hitler wanted to have peace with Soviets. Soviet could do nothing or help Germany with invasion. Endly Soviets decided to attack. That was coordinated. Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact had that scenario. I mean, how to divide Europe.

[@dragonstv5862]

@@viceguy4880 Taken... XD Ukrainian People Republic wasn't Ukrainian SSR. That country was ally of Poland in that war. In scenario of that ally Poland takes Lwów and Ukraine takes Kiev. But Poland has lost Kiev an after war Ukrainian People Republic have ceased to exist. But It exists on the bottom of Threat of Riga. You talk about propaganda. Belarusian SSR wasn't fully independent as well. Belarusians have complained about division of Belarus, not about taking part of It by Poland.

[@viceguy4880]

@@dragonstv5862 They were not allies anyway. Even if it was coordinated (this is what I'm not sure about), it doesn't mean that they were allies. You can understand why Soviets decided to attack, there is nothing special about it, so what is the problem? Soviet troops and German troops were not fighting alongside with each other.

[@adiyarzharmenov9187]

France was weakened by a massive banking crisis in 1932. It was unstable for the rest of 1930ies. In 1935-1936 France was on the brink of the Civil War. Which allowed Germany to militarize and Italy to invade Ethiopia. France wouldn’t allow strong Germany if their economy was in better shape in 1930ies. French manufacturing halved from 1932 to 1936.

[@bestrafung2754]

This would be a pretty interesting Hearts of Iron 4 mod. Someone should totally make it!

[@AlexS-zr2nb]

What type of unholy uno reverse card scenario is this? Because it's beautiful

[@BalkansMike]

Yo Yo Yo this is interesting.

[@jansobieski8414]

Unimaginably W universe.

[@emperorofwends8875]

GERMANIA DELENTA EST

[@Deridus]

(Dabbing Poles escalates)

[@FeHearts]

Poland also had a secret alliance with Japan against the USSR. If Poland joined the Axis then Japan might have joined them in the invasion of the Soviet Union. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan-Poland_relations