How Progressive Christians “Help” Evangelicals Shift Beliefs

[@tonyawoller769]

We have left our church of 13 years because of this progressive shift. You both have wonderfully verbalized the way we felt but didn’t have the ability to communicate. Thank you Holy Spirit for leading us.

[@eddiegood1776]

We're not told to progress. We are called to stand fast and NOT waver. That's just my opinion and we each of us have our own.

[@leonardhunt7241]

Eddie Good We are told to sanctify our hearts in the Lord Jesus Christ and be ready to have an answer to those who ask 1st Peter 3:15 in order to be that we have to have progressively more knowledge of the Son of God that we might have an answer Ephesians 4:11-13-14.

[@sebastianheimann7639]

The problem is that everyone can pick different stances to stand fast on. The bible is an amazing collection of documents from many authors that expresses very different things, often even in the same book. Add to that millennias worth of interpretations of those texts, and there's SO many positions you can reasonably claim as "biblical" or "christian".

[@leonardhunt7241]

@@sebastianheimann7639 That’s the purpose of exercising your faculties for reasoning to be able to discern the contrary which is inadequate to the rest of Scripture. Because there May be differences Doesn’t Mean that the inconsistencies and inadequacies can’t be determined and the more comprehensive and answering possible objections can be. As Paul said in 1st Corinthians 11:19 ‘for there also must be heresies among you that those that are approved may be manifest (made known)’.

[@eddiegood1776]

@@leonardhunt7241 If you had left out tthe word "progressively" the sentence works much better

[@eddiegood1776]

@@leonardhunt7241 What's your point?

[@rosennahickman6511]

Thank you for this video. So eye opening! I was like the proverbial frog in the pot and have realized I’m in a progressive church. It’s been a two year process and I’m now looking for a historical church and feeling quite shaken.

[@glennamcdaniel1490]

This sounds similar to a Buddhist I heard say, “we all want to go to the same place, we just have different ways of getting there.” Muslims and Christian beliefs are vastly different. Progressives may think that Muslims are coming from a similar place as Christians, but they are not. Progressives claim to be Christians but they veer from the truth of scriptures that make them uncomfortable or appear as if they are zealous. The Bible divides people as it is the “two edged sword”. You either believe the words therein and stand on its truth or you don’t. I am not going to water down the gospel just to tickle another’s ears.

[@markshaneh]

Yep 👍

[@debbiegagne4593]

Amen!

[@leonardhunt7241]

I would have been enthusiastic that every believer would endorse that response but I’ve found out differently. It’s so sad 😭. If everyone believing recognized: The Father is God John 8:54 And became the Father of Jesus by his appointing himself as father to the Word and the Word as his Son ‘I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son’ Hebrews 1:5 and Because he prepared the Word a body Hebrews 10:5 which the Word put on himself ‘put on the form of a servant/ put on a servant’s body Philippians 2:7b. Because the Word put on the body God had prepared for him to wear Philippians 2:7b (Hebrews 10:5) Jesus wasn’t ‘begotten of God’ at his human birth but after his death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven John 20:17 2nd Corinthians 5:2,4 Acts 1::33 (his ‘begotten of God’ body: an incorruptible and immortal body placed upon his mortal dust flesh (without blood 1st Corinthians 15:50) body 1st Corinthians 15:53 was put on Jesus’ resurrection body from heaven (from God John 20:17) ; Colossians 1:18 Jesus has to have the preeminence in all things. The Son Had been the Word who was reciprocally with the God and the Word was God reciprocally responding to and from the God who was reciprocally with the Word John 1:1-2 The Word had had his own God’s material spirit body with his own spirit of God separated from the Father’s spirit of God Philippians 2:6b seeing the Father said he was a man in the law of the Israelites John 8:17-18 The God of John 1:1-2 made the Word a created mortal man in all things John 1:14, Philippians 2:7b yet having been made in the likeness of sinful flesh Romans 8:3 being tempted in all points as we are Hebrews 4:15 including his own lusts James 1:13-14 The Word had emptied - kenoo: emptied, devoid of content - himself of his God’s things such as eternal life, glory, knowledge, wisdom, nature, and maybe others…. This video didn’t address what kenoo means or not in relation to what things the Word was shown to have emptied - kenoo - himself, one by one. The Holy Spirit of God is God the Father’s spirit of man, called the Spirit of God, within the Father’s spirit body 1st Corinthians 2:9-11 (John 8:17-18). They left out SO MUCH I was wanting to hear, learn.

[@markshaneh]

@@leonardhunt7241 your way to messed up buddy, you need to be born again, then you will start to learn , John 3:3-7 ✌️

[@henkv9323]

This is such a great interview with Dr. Ashlee Quosigk. Sean, thank you for having this guest on your show.!!

[@SeanMcDowell]

You bet!

[@joyouslily2982]

Changing words/intents of scripture-twisting it in effect saying”Did God say...?”

[@GraceOnly3]

This was excellent. The way Sean calmly guides the discussion & words questions, & the manner in which she answers, is so instructive for me as a parent of two “prodigals”. Thank you, & more reading materials for my list!

[@barbarabrooks4747]

The main issue is to keep people with heretical views out of teaching positions in seminaries and Christian colleges. Typically progressive Christians were influenced at the university of by progressive church leaders who picked up their progressive beliefs in seminary. The New Testament talks a lot about keeping out false teachers and teaching. Either churches lack church discipline or they apply discipline to issues of pastoral power instead of controlling blatantly non-biblical teaching and behavior.

[@leonardhunt7241]

I wish there’s more discussion between progressive and evangelical believers. I don’t consider my beliefs to be progressive but I Do think I Have A More Biblical Approach of God: In The Beginning, ‘from everlasting’ there were two Gods, the God and the Word. The God created the uncreated Word a created (made) man named Jesus, without his God nature, body, and things. After his death and resurrection and ascension to heaven, to God Jesus became begotten of God and exalted to God Hebrews 1:8(John 5:22,27,Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:22-23 1st Corinthians 15:28. The New Testament one (heis: one, many in one) God - the Father and the Son; the Father exalted Christ Jesus to God Over Only Man in heaven and in earth Matthew 28:18 John 5:22,27:Hebrews 1:8. The Holy Spirit of God is God’s spirit of man within his (God’s) spirit body 1st Corinthians 2:9-11: no spirit of man is equal to his man except when sent representing his man 1st Corinthians 5:4,Acts 5:3-4, the Spirit of God is not God: only a part of the Godhead because he is in God, not of his own authority.

[@markshaneh]

@@leonardhunt7241 no Lenard, you are self conceited, and your interpretation of the bible is just that, your interpretation/version, how can you watch this totally transparent and on point discussion that is studied and orthodox and make such a spiritually dead public statement 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@leonardhunt7241]

@@markshaneh without reference I have no reply to affirm or disagree. You make assumptions about me ‘I am conceited and self’ Don’t you also think you are correct? Would that make you conceited and self absorbed? Also? The Bible is very specific that there will be those approved; if you can’t or don’t prove that each is not correct by a preponderance of the points raised then you nor I have a ground to disagree with credibility. I hope this helps

[@markshaneh]

@@leonardhunt7241 yes I do think I’m correct, don’t confuse being self conceited with knowing what is truth and right. I hope that helps.

[@leonardhunt7241]

@@markshaneh I have nothing to compare whether you are or aren’t correct. What Do You think? What beliefs do you have that would interest me as concerning Jesus Christ and his salvation?

[@madimakes]

This was better than I anticipated. you touched on “past corporate sin” as well as this concept of us “being better now than in the past” which is food for thought…I would love a deeper dive on this.

[@christianmclain2045]

Thank you, these affirmed my suspicions and revealed much more.

[@TheKlh54]

Thank you for all the research, Ashlee!

[@laurenkwarren]

This was a phenomenal conversation. Thank you 🙏🏻

[@stuarthoughton1788]

wow, what valuable insight she shares. Progressive Christians have switched truth from being external and revealed to us by God, to being internal and defined sociologically by people's preferences and experiences. At the same time, sin is switched from being personal and internal (something I do) to being external and typically "structural sin." Ashlee's emphasis on the correct source for moral authority is really on point.

[@judywyse7088]

THANK YOU !! You both covered this topic with calmness and clarity. Keep up the good work.

[@mytreasuredcreations]

From a homeschooling mom to another homeschooling mom: thank you, Ashlee! ❤

[@lepidoptera9337]

Poor children.

[@piperdanielle]

YES AMERICAN GOSPEL “Christ Crucified” Mandatory viewing👍 Excellent interview!

[@list1726]

Thanks Sean and Ashlee

[@Martha77]

I would argue that a progressive Christian is most likely not a Christian at all. The Bible is God’s inspired, inerrant, infallible, and historically reliable message for all people. Scripture is flawless, sacred, and divine-a perfect word from a perfect God. Progressive churches are unhinged from this truth. I know because I left one.

[@smallwei76]

I think it's important to first define what is "Progressive" Christianity. Do they even believe Jesus is the son of God, and the only way for sinners to heaven is by faith in Christ through grace? If not, these progressive leaders are not even Christians. They're just wolves in sheep's skin.

[@crisjunfan2139]

I think it’s very interesting how she states that progressives are less accepting of conservative individuals into church leadership and less tolerant of entertaining conservative views. I find this holds true and is consistent politically and it’s pretty clear academically. Once upon a time the largest universities were religiously (Christian) founded and were generally conservative. The conservative leadership allowed more liberal individuals a hearing for the sake of diversity. Now that progressives reign in academia conservatives are a token presence at best, if not silenced or run off entirely. It seems to me the reason for the lack of tolerance on the part of progressives is partly because of the fear they feel that they might experience the same degree of ostracism that they have presently imposed onto conservatives. They believe it was a hard fought turf war and they fear payback, and the fear is probably justified.

[@lilmisspeace]

If progressives have been given space by conservatives, how was it ever a hard fought turf war?

[@crisjunfan2139]

@@lilmisspeace the gains progressives made around a century ago were slow and incremental. Progressives would say that it was simply a matter of better ideas/theology/scholarship winning out. But as theologians like Mechan pointed out, there was more going on. That deception and misrepresentation was also occurring. Not saying this was commonplace and that all liberals engaged in this kind of thing, but it was strategic enough and occurred with just enough frequency to precipitate a turning of the tide.

[@milopepper2559]

In my experience with progressives, they do not fear retaliation as much as they fear losing control! In my experience, it seems to go much deeper than that. My observations lead me to believe that progressives in general have a personality type that is one of control. And it doesn't seem to matter if what they want people to do is efficient or makes sense, they just want people to follow their commands. My oldest son who is now 30 is that type of personality. Even as a child he would get angry with his siblings and friends who would not agree to do things his way! And coming to mediate many disputes I found that oftentimes his commended method of doing things didn't make anything any easier or any better. He just wanted everyone to do what he wanted them to do. And when pressed for an explanation as to why he would become even more enraged! I believe that's why we see most progressive movements (regardless of what's being pushed forward) also with an authoritarian attitude. This is of course somewhat of an anecdotal observation but my son did grow up to be very progressive in his views and actions. At one point he was preparing to go join the protests against the 1%'s (which are by the vast majority medical doctors) I told him that I respected his convictions, but if he were arrested he would have to arrange for his own bail and pay his own legal fees. I would not contribute anything, and these were my convictions.

[@289EPH]

I see that as being only true in political and academic spheres.

[@annieaviles4760]

There is no such thing as "progressive" Christianity. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. No one will ever progress beyond God. Just reveals the pride of man.

[@markshaneh]

True Annie, it’s us who progress after we accept the redemptive work of Jesus at the cross, we progress in the fact that we die to ourselves and become and strive to be more like our beautifulJesus.

[@markshaneh]

We accept Jesus and His call to discipleship, “progressive Christianity” progress to only digress away from Jesus and His Teachings.

[@annieaviles4760]

@@markshaneh Amen!

[@cortneyb777]

I love your interviews. I agree with this and it’s nice to have it payed out neatly. This will help when evangelizing and having conversations about Jesus, who He really is and that the Word of God doesn’t change just because the culture may.

[@Biblino]

Sean your work is amazing! I got here halfway through but I think this is one of the most helpful conversations I heard in your channel, it explains so much of this new moment. Keep up your labor!

[@sandypike2431]

Would add that what is happenning in many usually conservative evangelical denominations is with the appointment of 'young' pastors and elders is that bring progressive understanding with them and move the congregation in this direction. As you say not maliciously but it is what they have been taught and now commit to.

[@crisjunfan2139]

Mechan also talked about how in his day candidates, when asked to affirm their orthodox beliefs in their ordination vows, would either rationalize in their minds what that understanding meant to them personally, playing with words as it were (sound familiar?) or they would outright lie in order to gain a foothold. So “infiltration” in Mechan’s day was an accurate description of what was going on. It may happen less today, but that’s because the obfuscation is not as necessary because of the ubiquitous progressive presence.

[@lchampag]

I don’t know where I fit. I think in Matthew 7 it is plain there is only one kind of Christian, the ones that find the narrow path and are welcomed into glory by Christ and not rejected. Progressive and Conservative are only worldly/cultural terms that reflect worldly affiliations.

[@cindysmith1700]

What a beautiful interview

[@TheKlh54]

Hit the nail on the head “people don’t know the bible” this negligence is what leaves one vulnerable to false doctrines. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction , for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 1 Timothy 3:16-17 And He gave some as apostles and some as prophets and some as evangelists and some as pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ until we all attain the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of DOCTRINE, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming…Ephesians 4:11-14 Doctrine matters…we will only know it as we study scripture!

[@rajangeorge9864]

God did not intend to start a religion by sending his only begotten Son. The word 'Christian' came with the some people in Antioch calling them so who started following Jesus Christ. Christianity as a religion is a man made religion. God wanted to reconcile seperated sinful humans being born of Adam & Eve. Since the sinful humans are heading for eternal death God sent his own Son to be born as a human live an unblemished life and sacrifice his life in place of the sinfull humans and take away their punishment of death. Hence who ever believed IN JESUS CHRIST ( in who he was and all what he preached and his death in place of him/her then God could forgive all their sins ( past present and future), reconcile them to Him and establish them in a personal relationship as "God's Children". So It is NOT a religion but a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ as God's Children and He being their Heavenly Father. Christianity as a religion is Satanic to keep the humans away from God their creator. Christianity as a Religion is a Satanic deception pointing towards God but ensuring keeping them away from attaining the position of being God's Chidren and having eternal life. God establishes the Kingdom of Heaven here onearth with God's Chikdren. It is the Chidren of God whose name gets recorded in God's " Book of Life" ( as mentioned in the Book of Revelation Chapter 21) and become entitled to Eternal Life with God as His Children. This is great GIFT of God by His GRACE. Know the truth and the truth will set us free.

[@alfrazz1799]

Here's an example of "God inspired scripture". O.K Joshua, now that the walls of Jericho are down, enter the city and slaughter every man, woman and child.

[@doctorisout]

@@rajangeorge9864 Neither is Judaism a religion; it is a people.

[@kwall1464]

Thanks for sharing!

[@cathleenolney8852]

I've heard it called the "5th column" tactic. One of the devil's favorite methods of destroying the church and God's people.

[@sr5542]

Wow. Great interview.

[@pvdguitars2951]

A big NO for me. No watering down or compromise on the Trinity, the only begotten son, the crucifixion and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. People who received the Holy Spirit or have a direct relation with Jesus are surely uncomfortable with a progressive approach. Salvation comes through Christ only. 🙏

[@jowens197]

Just a question, does it make sense that only Christianity can get you into heaven, when so much about what we believe is shaped by our cultures and life experiences? It doesn't seem fair to me when some people don't have access to Christian materials. It's literally illegal in some places.

[@davidhuston7559]

Brother Sean: Thank you for covering this greatly misunderstood, and no doubt spiritually insidious topic. Many times I've asked the following question, i.e., who is the God of Progressive Christianity, only to be greeted with "pin-drop silence"? Or asking another theologically relevant question [in context], reveals the same metaphysically incoherent challenges unique to so-called Progressive Christianity, as in: How did/does the eternally self-existent, unchanging/immutable Creator God of historical, biblical Christianity, i.e., "Yahweh," transition [or "evolve"] into a much lesser, seemingly capricious immoral "god" - created in the image of man? Moreover, all one can still "hear" in this biblically irrational subject, is crickets! Thus one should easily distinguish between the eternally unchanging, self-existent, personal / relational, covenant-keeping "God" of historical biblical Christianity - which is also unquestionably "Jewish" in its origins, e.g., Jeremiah 31:31-37; John 4:20-24ff; Romans 1:16ff; 4:1-25; chapter's 9-11; 15:7-12; Galatians 3:1-14; Ephesians 2:11-22; 3:1-12; 1 Timothy 6:11-16 etc. - over and against the man-made concept of an UNknown, ever-changing, personally malleable "absentee landlord" [Deistic-type?] deity, of today's Progressive Christianity. The night-and-day difference is profound indeed. So I'm compelled to ask: is Yahweh confused? Is he guilty of capriciously handing-down diametrically opposed, thus conflicting "revelation," to different individuals, at different times? Hardly..."for there is none like him"! Shalom to one and all! (e.g., for context, please see: Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8; Heb. 6:13-20; Numbers 23:19; 2 Cor. 11:1-4, 12-15; Jude-Judah v. 3ff; 1 John 2:20-23; 4:1-6; 5:9-13; Rev. 5:1-14; 13:8; Isaiah 11:1-9ff; 44:6; [compare with Rev. 1:8, 11, 12-18]; Zechariah 14:1-9ff; John 1:1-18ff; 6:35-45; 12:42-50; Acts 17:16-31; 26:12-23; Galatians 1:1-2:10; Colossians 1:15-18; Hebrews 1:1-4; Rev. 4:11 etc.)

[@SeanMcDowell]

I’m glad it is helpful!

[@PhilippDavidKropf]

Awesome content ! Thank you :)

[@rochellecaffee3267]

The emphasis has been directed toward “love” in its Contemporary definition, and away from Objective Biblical Truth.

[@AR-rz3tk]

Disturbing, but thank you for warning us about this.

[@CJ-mq3mk]

Here is the experience I have had going to reaching Muslim mission conferences: They do teach that Muslims can remain culturally Muslim and be Christians. But they are very clear in what they mean by that. They mean that Muslims can continue to do the same cultural things that Muslims do after they become Christians, as long as those cultural things are not in opposition to the Bible. That means Muslims NEED to understand how our God is different than Allah. They also NEED to be corrected in their view of Jesus, BUT they can still continue to do many of their cultural Muslim traditions. It is how we go into any foreign culture, we do not try to change their entire culture to match our American Christian culture, unless the actions that they are doing are clearly in opposition to the Bible. I am unsure if Ashlee had a different experience or if she would view the approach above as progressive.

[@hhstark8663]

Those "cultural Muslim traditions" (e.g. ramadan) is identical to fasting practiced by catholics and orthodox. They can become orthodox or catholic christians. Therefore, they have no excuse in calling themselves muslims. Anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.

[@CJ-mq3mk]

@@hhstark8663Yes, many of the traditions are the same. That was their argument. At the time, I had thought that it had seemed similar to Messianic Jews who do not refer to themselves as Christians. But perhaps there is an agenda there too. I will have to think about it some more.

[@hhstark8663]

​@@CJ-mq3mk It´s like the word "baptist", which is short for "baptist christian". They use the term "jew" to refer to ethnicity, NOT religion. Which means, a "(ethinic) jew who affirms the jesus as the messiaha". The same thing does NOT apply to the word "muslim" as that it exclusively refers to religion.

[@CJ-mq3mk]

@@hhstark8663 yes I know it can refer to the ethnic people group, but they use the term "Messianic Judaism." Judaism is the religion not the ethic group and they still close to not call themselves Christian. I don't think it is an exact comparison, but I do not think it is completely different. I just was not aware that there was a hidden agenda, but I will definitely look more into it. I think they said their main goal was so that the Muslim Christians could hide their identity and would not be killed. it is hard for missionaries over there as well. Both have to balance hiding their identity for safety but not compromising their faith.

[@CJ-mq3mk]

@Josh Hernandez in my previous comments, I was talking about Muslims who come to understand and believe in Christ as the son of God but choose to continue to call themselves Muslims either for the purpose of safety or for the purpose of continuing relationships so that they can also bring family members to the true view of Christ as well.

[@ozzyb6595]

Progressive Christianity is what made me dive in more in depth in my relationship with God and understand the logical reasoning to our faith and the person of Jesus. I know run on sentence. Lol 😂

[@chamomiletea9562]

Not a run on sentence. It is a compound sentence.

[@ozzyb6595]

@@chamomiletea9562 my entire life is one giant compound sentence. Lol 😂 but on a serious note. I do tend to jump from point to point quite a lot.

[@rhondarockhound622]

At the end of time is Jesus going to divide us into sheep /conservative and goats/ progressive? In this parable what is Jesus focused on?

[@Rue1008]

A very useful discussion. Thank you.😊

[@joanschutter5863]

Natasha Crain's book, Faithfully Different, teaches the cause of America's shift to secularism and how to respond. I highly recommend it.

[@ynetsv136]

One practical thing, the names of the both of you are battling with the space reserved for the captions/ subtitles, making it hard to read subtitles - but excellent interview!

[@torontoash45]

As time moves on we will be seeing more progressive christianity and more Joel Osteen type Pastors

[@saskiascott8181]

Joel Osteen is not a progressive Christian. He's a prosperity gospel teacher. The two are different cultural phenomena

[@besseljm1]

This explains so many aspects of some conversations I've had with certain friends of mine in the last couple of years.

[@DG-ri1lp]

Who are the main leaders of progressive Christianity and is there an overlap with NAR ??

[@lisacawyer6896]

There's another form of inter-religious dialog that does not attempt to reduce all religions to a "lowest common denominator" religion, but instead respectively acknowledges differences. That approach is far better, in my opinion. Social justice is Biblical. It pains me when I hear conservative Christians condemn "social justice". We should want "liberty and justice for all". AKA "The Golden Rule".

[@Kvothe3]

Progressives getting critiqued for interpreting the Bible through experience. Jesus seemed to believe in Adam and Eve as historical people, the Genesis accounts of creation are not compatible with science and teach an ancient incorrect cosmology. What methodology do we use to decide which parts of the Bible we should read as they were intended to their original audiences and which we should allow our lived experience of reality to interpret?

[@tomrogge4541]

You might read Sean's book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". This might answer that question. Also, as more work is done on genes and DNA, there is pretty much agreement among scientists that homo sapiens originated from a few thousand specimens from somewhere in Africa. Also, that all human beings have a much smaller mutation variation than any of the primate population. Which suggests we could have from an even smaller breeding population than a few thousand. It suggests we could have possibly come from a single mating pair. You know, like an Adam and Eve. Time will tell. Science is actually showing more and more that the universe was created by a mind ie God and not by chance. As for me, I agree, I'm agnostic as to whether the creation story is a literal 6 days, or is an allegory of creation over billion of years. I tend to believe more that it's an allegory rather than it's literal. But that is not a problem for me, because Like Sean says, and most conservative Christians; our Christian belief is founded on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which I consider, on the historical evidence, as fact. Since that is true, the other "problematic" aspects of the Bible are simply questions that will be answered in the fullness of time, since mankind's understanding of God is through a glass darkly.

[@Kvothe3]

@@tomrogge4541 I'm not seeing an answer to my question. What is the methodology? You seem to be saying that maybe some things in the Bible can be reconciled with our experiecn of reality and that for the rest, it doesn't matter because you are sure Jesus was resurrected.

[@DiggitySlice]

Not everything in the bible is intended to be taken literally, and this has been true since the days it was written. It has nothing to do with "interpreting through experience". Progressives have a long standing history of turning away from truth in all its forms, and that is antithetical to Christianity.

[@DiggitySlice]

@@tomrogge4541 there's 2 things. 1) the theory of the origin of species has been greatly pushed by secular naturalists with a clear agenda. I would be careful which sources you trust when it comes to that. 2) You should look up works by Dr. Michael Heiser. He's a hebrew scholar and should clear up a few of your issues with interpretation of the word.

[@tomrogge4541]

@@Kvothe3 The vast majority of the Bible is about our spiritual connection to God in the stories, poems, and history of the Jews, Jesus, the disciples and our dynamic with other human beings. Only eleven verses are about the creation of the universe. Also nothing about DNA, or quantum mechanics, or mathematics, or metallurgy, or farming, or any other physical science. So what is God saying? Focus on that aspect of the Bible and the rest of the discovery of how the mechanics of the universe are left to our own nvestigations by the scientific method. Human beings haven't changed much in our psychology or societal or Inter personal dynamics in the last two thousand years. (Slavery still exists in Africa, concentration camps in China and what war and it's atrocities aren't happening some where in the world today?) Accept what the Bible says about this, as the unchanging and inerrant word of God as to how we interact with Him and each other, and the rest will be taken care by our learning to do better in our physical stewardship of His creation. The methodology of how to interpret the Bible in relation to our present day? Follow the Law of God as he spoke to us in the writings of the Word Of God, and we will be under his wings of protection. Interpret that Word for the convenience of present human sentiment and cultural expectations? Do what's right in our own eyes and not by Gods expectations and commands? Well, the Old Testament, especially in Isaiah says what happened to the Jews when they felt free to "interpret" God's clear Laws. Also in the New Testament by Jesus's and the disciples are clear about these moral and spiritual subjects. It is very clear how God views such actions of "interpreting" his Words for our very human and dare I say, sin filled convenience.

[@CarobMarcelle]

“Help” is an interesting word!

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

My big problem with progressive beliefs is that they spend so much time critiquing others they don't usually self reflect and by definition don't (or can't) go back when something that was changed turns out to be bad, wrong or chaotic. And many times it takes a generation to work that out. Progressive is experimental by nature

[@machellovelivelife658]

Very interesting explanation how progressives and conservatives think/feel/judge things...and I'm only at minute 30:56

[@Lukesh30253]

This is great stuff here thank you so much for sharing , reformed theology/Calvinism does the same thing it evangelize the church more than the lost and converts non reformed Christians to their view they create a paradigm shift by proof texting, re interpret scripture using syllogisms and deductive logic. After building the case they make you feel guilty for not excepting that view, to work and even boast that they can accept something repulsive about God that you cannot. Ie: that God pre ordains good and evil acts. Although there are various beliefs within reformed theology.

[@digitalbizfor25]

Well said.

[@Kvothe3]

Wow they combine Bible vs with the rules of logic and sound thinking... they sound just terrible?

[@digitalbizfor25]

@@Kvothe3 i think you either missed the point of the comment or you are intentionally avoiding the argument he is making...

[@zacharyhumpherys8969]

That God predestines both good and evil is repulsive? That's Paul's view, though (see Romans 9).

[@Switzer1234]

When you say EXCEPT, do you mean ACCEPT?

[@msmuse8814]

Why are Christians surprised when people fall away? The parable of the Sower not only tells us this will happen but also tells us why.

[@D.E.Metcalf]

It seems she has some knowledge of Machen’s Christianity and liberalism.

[@Fool0f4Took]

I really appreciate Sean's aside about terminology between 37:00 and 38:00. It makes me wonder, though, if the clearest framework for mapping these things might be a simple binary algorithm that starts with something like "Identifies as a Christian," and then moves to things like, "Believes in the bodily, historic resurrection of Jesus," etc. Trying to categorize institutions (denominations) with a quadrant of beliefs/traits makes sense. But that method seems arbitrary and confusing when presuming to give helpful insight into how and what individuals actually believe...

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Progressive Christian music is very influential to our young people, and I believe is promoting the “Woke” culture. Teach them the difference between what God teaches is “ love” and what the progressives teach is “love”. The same with “truth”. God loved us enough to give us an environment that is run by black and white Laws, which always bring about consequences that children should be made aware of, and discussed with by parents. Asking them about their experience with consequences of “wrong” behavior, could help parents talk with young people.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Do you think that the Obama years and the teaching of Common Core has influenced this “helpfulness” to come about?

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Feelings are having more authority than the Biblical Truth.

[@saskiascott8181]

How is focussing on living like Jesus a deemphasis on Christology?? Isn't it more glorifying to Jesus to only live like Him than to only talk about Him, but live in a way antithetical to Him?

[@acts413biblecollege8]

I’m VERY interested in the challenge of progressive Christianity. I DEEPLY APPRECIATE these interviews and the work of these authors, but I am discouraged and shocked at the consistent failure to distinguish between progressives and very conservative and orthodox Christians that reject PSA. Charles Finney was no progressive! Neither was William or Catherine Booth! Nor Winkie Pratney! Nor Athanasius!

[@saskiascott8181]

Thank you for saying this. It's frustrating to say the least to hear them say that I'm not even Christian any more when I hold the same views as a good number of church fathers. Even though they made a huge deal about progressives not allowing alternative views, it's THEM trying to categorise people taking a more kaleidoscopic view of atonement as not even being Christian any more.

[@tayh.6235]

I think it needs to be highlighted why PSA is rejected by Christians like yourself. From what I've seen of most progressives, the motive is less an earnest attempt to properly understand salvation as described in Scripture and more a desire to make God more palatable to an increasingly secular society that cringes away from being told what is and isn't right. There are plenty of Christians though who have honest reasons based on the text for preferring a different explain of salvation and we definitely need to be able to talk about that with each other as family. Personally, I think there's some merit to multiple explanations with none fully capturing the whole picture.

[@acts413biblecollege8]

@@tayh.6235 Amen! I agree.

[@saskiascott8181]

@@tayh.6235 Yes I think it's important to be able to speak about the work of Jesus from multiple perspectives and not pretend that we're able to sum up such a huge, cosmos-changing, divine mystery into a neat theory we can understand with our intellect alone.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Being “flexible “ makes Truth look doubtful, and opens our minds to “vain imagination “.

[@lisacawyer6896]

Sin can be both personal and systemic. Jonathan Edwards, for example, had much to say about the importance of personal holiness, but embraced (with some qualifications) the institutions of slavery. Evangelicals today oppose some systemic sins such as abortion, but tend to oppose systemic racism as "wokeness". We need to think more deeply, and "learn to make a righteous judgment" (John 7:24).

[@sura_lanka]

God is all knowing, all powerful, all just and all loving. God is outside space, time and matter. Hence, God's inspired word is a good place to start. It's best to let Holy Spirit reveal it to you. Path to do the same was shown by Jesus. Don't let your ego stand in the way. Humility and submission is the only way to have a personal relationship with Jesus. You can't explain the taste, it's an experience unique to each. God bless

[@olgaburgos7780]

All my changes in beliefs I call them progressive thinking so I don’t like to be put in a negative light with churches that call themselves progressive and do not teach all the biblical truths and add to them their on interpretations.

[@kii9357]

Redefining terms without making it known that your doing it is deception.

[@tomesplin4130]

Just a thought. Does it really matter if you take a ‘conservative’ or ‘progressive’ stance on interpretation of scripture? Isn’t it all about having the indwelling spirit of Christ and expressing that love? Why look for more reasons to divide believers when the Christian faith is under sustained attack from the world?

[@mrbates87]

If you don’t mind me asking, do you think all interpretations equal?

[@tomesplin4130]

@@mrbates87I think all are flawed, evidenced by 33,000 different denominations of Christianity. I believe above all, Christians need to express love for each other, in humility.

[@mrbates87]

@@tomesplin4130 Could you please tell me what you mean by expressing love for each other in humility? What does that look like?

[@tomesplin4130]

@@mrbates87 Sure Chris. This is what we live at our church of which I am an elder and board member. As a leadership team we are extremely diverse in our theology. We are all long-serving mature Christians who have come to quite different understandings of scripture (from so-called ‘conservative’ to ‘progressive’). We regard these differences as non-important - we enjoy discussing without arguing. We are united around the lordship of Christ and a heart to love and serve others. The humility is recognizing that every individual is on a journey and respecting that. We simply model (or try our best to model) being a follower of Christ. We stay away from politics and theological dogma. We don’t profess to be perfect, instead we continually question what and how we could change or do better. Maybe this answers your question? I’m happy to elaborate further.

[@mrbates87]

@@tomesplin4130 Thank you for your response! Sorry for all the questions, lol. It sounds like the majority or all of you on the leadership team have a reverence for Christ. Do you all believe that He is God or are there some that differ in that regard?

[@lulujordaan1103]

Jesus is God. ❤️ 💯

[@zhugh9556]

As someone who is neither a conservative nor progressive Christian it seems to me that both camps adapt an ancient text to suit their particular cultural and political environment. I don't think conservative Christians do it any less than progressives. They just do it in different ways.

[@hhstark8663]

The "conservative Christians" have held those theological positions for TWO MILLENIA - across cultures and across time and across continents! It´s the revionist ("progressive") christians who are the outliers here.

[@mackinm00se]

@@hhstark8663 This is the problem. You are incorrect but probably just because so few folks realize how young modern conservative Christianity is. It’s not talked about and is fascinating! Seriously I bet you’d love checking it out.

[@mugglescakesniffer3943]

Every Church I know has a doctrinal statement so why would they go in blind?

[@cathleenolney8852]

The doctrinal statements are often not entirely honest. I left a church that explicitly told me they were not endorsing CRT, then the next week I was sent an email inviting the entire church to read a book that is blatantly CRT.

[@zerobyte802]

I bet they wouldn’t be too happy if you had quoted Galatians 1:8-9

[@robertgrant3844]

Thank you for prescient content, articulate scholarship. Well done. Thought provoking, meaningful.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

The Gospel taught in 1 Corinthians 15, is what is primary to understand and accept as a true Christian. If one accepts that, then the rest of the doctrines would be taught. But if the Gospel, which “is the power of God”, is not received then the evangelical should pray for, and move on. Progressives except “ arbitrary “ truth, and it is relative to feelings of people, not what God has taught us in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The problem is that those who are born again realize a peace and love that those who are not, live under the Law and under guilt and fear. There are only 2 possible ways of living under God...Romans 1,2 explains the lives of those who have not been “predestined, called, justified, glorified” and received the grace and mercy of Christ.

[@nemdenemam9753]

49:53

[@creatagheorghe9905]

Jesus did not come to go with us to hell, but so that we could go to heaven with Him ❤

[@irisbristow2977]

The jesus of the Koran is not the same Jesus as The Lord Jesus Christ. The Koran says Allah has NO SON therefore Allah cannot be the same as the Christian God Who sent His only begotten SON to redeem us.

[@aaagggmmmsss]

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega

[@zhugh9556]

What does this have to do with the interview?

[@olgaburgos7780]

Personally I have progress because I used to believe that Sunday was the day of the Lord but then I saw in the Bible teaches differently and Saturday is the Holy day that Jesus kept and God wrote in the His 10 commandments, so I stopped my thinking on that, I used to. Confess my sins as a Catholic, to a man and now I only confess them to God who Is the only One who died for them on the cross for me. I used to call a priest, Father so and so, and I saw that we should call Father only God in heaven, so I stopped doing that, I saw that babies were not baptized but dedicated and presented instead , so I did that also , they chose to do that as teens ,when they accepted voluntarily Jesus as the Son of God and their Savior, I saw that there is no truth in Mary,📖Jesus mother ascended to heaven and became an intermediary for us, but that only Jesus Is so I do not pray anymore in her name I can go on and on in my religious believes changes, but the most important. One is that my salvation depend only in Jesus and God’s Grace and not my christian works. I have progressed and I’m still progressing , because I read and study the Bible and the Holy Spirit guides me in all truths.

[@seahorsecampaign]

Progressives and Evangelicals. Wow. What a deadly ccombination. And that too with an American context. God save us all.

[@trudiefreed5887]

Yeah, I don't think you should use the term "progressive" Christian for what you're describing. It's needs an entirely different label in my humble opinion.

[@SeanMcDowell]

The question of terms is an important one. I’m curious to see how this plays out into the future…

[@hhstark8663]

"Revionist" would be a more appropriate term, for example. :)

[@shellymessina6733]

i listened to Malcolm Smith for so long ....a beautiful look at Grace ...then went to his "school" and found all the progressive views so confusing..no hell, no second coming ...and more is what he believes

[@joewaren508]

You shall know them by there fruit

[@privatepilot4064]

Organized “Christianity” didn’t show up until long after the last Apostle was gone.

[@JohnHMarsden]

I have moved to a more conservative worldview as I have got older. Just saying.

[@saskiascott8181]

Interesting. For me it's been the opposite because I have become less black and white in my thinking.

[@MatthewDistefano]

I love how Sean says he can't tell if Ashlee is biased toward Conservatism and then asks, "If you were a progressive...?" He isn't holding his cards as close to the vest as he'd like to think ;)

[@kerimixdorf9329]

He was referencing the book that she co-authored. He basically said that as he read the book he could not tell their personal views because they wrote it so unbiasedly. Hope that helps Sean out. 😄

[@MatthewDistefano]

@@kerimixdorf9329 the book may not present as biased, but it is clear here that their research must be influenced by her conservatism. The fact that she says she categorized people as "progressive" and "conservative" says everything. That, plus the fact that she would send anyone "leaning left" to Alisa Childers' KZbin page is hilarious. Just my two cents. That woman simply doesn't get it, though she presents as authoritative.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Satan is having a “hay day” with this “flexible” view of Truth. Our Christian world view is to teach the Truth, not to deny it.

[@Zomfoo]

“Help.”

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Christians are being “guilted” into being more “ loving” by tolerance of the lie that God excepts all religions.

[@redwine65]

you can tell pretty quick if your in a progressive church, they talk about everything except the Gospel

[@anthonybarber3872]

Biblical Christianity proclaims that Jesus The Christ is the Eternal Son of God. Islam says Jesus is a prophet but not the Son of God. Both cannot be true at the same time. Good interview.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Muhammad came long after Jesus life, death, burial, and resurrection. He did not die for anyone but himself, and did not resurrect from the dead. Christians Believe in Christ by faith and overcome by faith in Christ’s death, burial, AND resurrection.

[@alfrazz1799]

They are "two sides of the same coin".

[@gfujigo]

The Biblical Christian should reject both liberal and conservative/right-wing Christianity. Both depart from scripture to please their audiences and ignore Biblical teachings.

[@Frankie35533]

I don't think it's fair to say they ignore Biblical teachings. All sects base their beliefs on their own interpretation of scripture. You're not arguing about relying on scripture. You're arguing about who has the correct interpretation of scripture. It might be said that apologetics has become too effective.

[@gfujigo]

@@Frankie35533 Good points and very interesting.

[@hhstark8663]

When Sean says "conservative Chritian", he is referring to the the historical teachings that have been followed for two millenia - across time and across cultures and across continents - using sound hermeneutics. He is NOT referring to politics.

[@megl6148]

@@hhstark8663 General “conservative” Christians are the reformed Christians. Evangelicals and some baptists. Sola Sciptura is a new thing in Christianity. It is not conservative.

[@hollyshippy7417]

We live in a pluralistic society that guarantees freedom of religion. Progressive Christianity is a product of religious freedom and contributes to the healthy religious pluralism that exists across our nation. It isn't just conservative orthodox Christians that are dealing with this paradigm shift away from orthodoxy, Jews and Muslims are dealing with it too. Evangelism may guarantee converts, but it does little to change the in-the-door-out-the-door situation the Fundamentalist Evangelicals find themselves. It's been going on for decades and has accelerated over the last 15 years. Our Constitution not only guarantees freedom of religion, but also religious choice, rejecting religion, changing one's religion, leaving it, altering it, creating new religious paradigms and will not tolerate any undo coercion to stop any of these choices. Democracy guarantees choice. Sectarian divisions exist, because, when it comes to interpreting scripture, the interpretations are all over the map. It's part and parcel of interpretation, whether one agrees with it or not. Orthodoxy cannot change that reality. Never has. Never will. There are more sectarian divisions within Christianity than there exist within Judaism; 20,000 world-wide and growing.The idea that the world will accept Jesus as its savior, and that the orthodox center will hold in the interim or hold after is nothing short of irrational. A pipe-dream.The obsession with maintaining religious orthodoxy is an obsession that pluralism, freedom of religion and secular society pretty much guarantees will fail. And on top of that failure is Christianity's arguments against evolution in particular and science in general. Presently, the church is dealing with progressives, nones, transgender, gays, gay marriage, abortion, mediocre Christian music (mainly designed to manipulate emotions and equate that with a spiritual experience), to evangelistic complacency, biblical illiteracy, and mission statements a mile long, just to name the most obvious. It's not like maintaining orthodoxy is the only problem, but its survival depends on it not budging, while not budging compassionately. It's an old tactic that has to be applied to too many issues, with too few resources, and too little church energy to do anything, but maintain the status quo, which only keeps the revolving door of dissatisfied members accelerating. Trying to recruit young people into the thankless job of pastoring a church and living in what amounts an endless experience in existential dread will become harder and harder. In the meantime, the world and its religions, divisions, paradigm shifts and all the rest keeps on going on. Dr. Sean McDowell is intelligent, a true gentleman who listens, but the Fundamentalist Evangelical world has changed dramatically since his father's rise to prominence. It is no longer "Evidence that demands a Verdict," but evidence that Christianity can overcome pluralism, religious choice and secular culture, remain orthodox and not become a backwater cult, the majority is on to. No such evidence exists. It's a pipe-dream.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

You fight lies with the Truth, like Jesus did when confronted by Satan and others.

[@ChiliMcFly1]

Study the Bible with Strongs.

[@klayng1]

“Love your neighbor” / Be all things to all people so you can win SOME” AND “Come out from them as be separate”. Jesus wasn’t crucified because he was so open-minded and tolerant. Progressive churches: where the shepherd *IS* the wolf.

[@dansaber8435]

Jesus was crucified at the request of extremely religious people.

[@klayng1]

@@dansaber8435 … who despite their religiosity, didn’t know him, and were first and foremost for their establishment.

[@dansaber8435]

@@klayng1 right because like religious people today they only know a character in a story and can't actually hear God when he speaks.

[@klayng1]

@@dansaber8435 While that is *often* true, it isn’t always true.

[@joycechafin4587]

If you have to become just like the world to win the world to CHRIST then the world has win you you haven't won anyone to CHRIST!!

[@johntobey1558]

Latent synchretism and contextual Evangelism are the same things. Deceptive and heretical.

[@dboc2000]

She has all the verbal affections of a left wing academic. She must be deep in that culture. Just saying.

[@waynemershon8920]

Sean, I think you mean well but I also think you partly contribute to some of these issues by playing the role of the neutral, non-offensive good guy. This is not good. You need to take a position and be crystal clear on where you stand. Progressive christianity is evil and using the term "infiltration" shouldn't seem wrong to you. Please man up and be firm for truth.

[@doctorisout]

No. This was a theoretical discussion. They really did even talk about how to evangelize progressives in that section about talking to kids🙂 By the time you get there, near the end, I think we know her personal view.

[@leeberry7703]

if jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead game over

[@DPM917]

From 1st Timothy: “Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered, dishonors his head. 5. And every woman, who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered, dishonors her head; for she is on a level with her whose head is shaven. “. Any guy whose ever prayed while wearing a baseball cap and every woman whose ever prayed with no head cover is not following the literal text of the word of God and is therefore a progressive. Prove me wrong!

[@glennamcdaniel1490]

@DPM In the culture of Corinth, a woman’s covered head while ministering or worshipping was a symbol to signify a subordinate relationship to her husband. The apostle is not laying down an absolute law for women to wear veils or coverings in all churches for all time, but is declaring that the symbol of the divinely inspired male and female roles are to be genuinely honored in every culture. As in the case of meat offered to idols, there is nothing spiritual about wearing or not wearing a covering.But rebelling against Godly order was wrong. (Dr. John MacArthur)

[@DPM917]

@@glennamcdaniel1490 Thank you for your explanation. It highlights the point that these ancient texts must be read within the cultural context in which they’re written. By doing so you concede that deciding which rules are applicable across time and which are not is little more than guess work. Also, by taking in the cultural context, one would also have to account for ignorance. For example, in 1st Century Greece/Rome/Palestine, it was an undeniable truism that women were intellectually inferior to men. If that is your assumption, then a women’s role in terms of teaching doctrine and speaking authoritatively should be subordinated to men. But we know from decades of cognitive testing and analysis that there is absolutely no difference in intelligence, cognitive ability, critical thinking ability, etc between men and women. The author didn’t know this and in fact believed the opposite. His and his culture’s ignorance led to this scriptural admonition about head coverings and subordinate roles. The fallout is felt today as Christian denominations have split over women’s leadership roles in the church, including ordination.

[@glennamcdaniel1490]

@DPM Yes, you must take into consideration the culture at the time the scripture was written. Women were considered property in ancient cultures and even today in some cultures. But not in Jewish culture. God made it clear in Jewish law that women were to be esteemed. Elderly widows were to be taken care of if there were no family members. The Bible says a wife is to be be submissive to her husband as he is head of the house as Christ is head of the church. If a man and wife are both Christians he will not lord it over her.He will respect her and seek her counsel and provide for his family. She in turn will do the same but will submit to him his decision if they don’t agree. He will not throw his weight around and belittle her, but encourage her in all things. Jewish women could consider property and buy it. God planned for families to work in this order and both husband and wife had important roles to see that all within the family prospered. Same applies today for believers. If the man has the attitude the woman is inferior in any way I would question his relationship with God. Enjoyed talking to you.

[@desnock]

@@glennamcdaniel1490 I think cultural realities are more stark than that, one of which is the selling of one's daughter to her rapist (if she is raped): Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Now this is not to get into a theological argument per se, but to solidify that we must read Scripture in context and not apply magical thinking to it and make untoward claims that Scripture itself (an anthology, not a singular narrative) doesn't make. It's important to realize that the evangelical/fundamentalist perspective isn't a new claim, sects have been holding up THEIR understanding and dogma as the "only way" to look at things, thereby (if we take Jesus seriously) breaking His 1st and 2nd commandments. It's identity politics this desire to separate out the Church, but one that has gone on since Christ's time. Paul himself never met Christ, and yet we ascribe some sort of authority on him. There are a lot of convoluted dogmas that people rely on, but don't take an objective view of. Christianity isn't the magical stuff, it's the instructions of Jesus Christ - that's the litmus test. The rest can be argued by the people who show they don't listen to Jesus. To wit, you're quoting Paul, not Jesus. Why do you consider Paul to speak with any authority - was he not a sinner like you? What if you apply Christ's instruction to him, Peter, etc? It's a serious theological question.