How Protestant Converts Will Change Orthodoxy in America (Jonathan Pageau)

[@Shane_9590]

For me, Orthodoxy helped me heal from a lifetime of “Romaphobia” (aka Anti-Roman Catholic). I was able to experience apostolic Christianity for the first time. In the end, it allowed me to finally connect with our own Western expression of the apostolic faith.

[@nutblast9132]

Western rite isn’t western

[@joshuap969]

​@@nutblast9132what do you mean?

[@mollyporium5086]

@@nutblast9132 Western Rite is western. We have a church in Germany that does TLM and we have a Benedictine Monastery in the US. Dont know what ur on about.

[@envrie9423]

@@Shane_9590 except, Christianity isn’t Inherently western…

[@nutblast9132]

@ putting a western face on it doesn’t make it western. It’s completely void of actual western spirituality and they’re trying to byzantineize it even further. It’s a LARP

[@JediSteele]

Raised Lutheran, tried Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, and Non-denominational Christianity. Found Orthodoxy through Peterson>Pageau and Christianity started making sense 🙏🏻

[@Herdingcats1917]

Jonathan opened up the whole beautiful mystical side of christianity for me that I never had growing up and it brought me back to the catholic faith but the more traditional side of it. Thank you Jonathan.

[@johnnyd2383]

In continuation of your, Latin tradition, pride parade will be held at Vatican on Sep 5th. Approved by an old fart and you should prepare your BDSM costume, attend and thus pay your allegiance to the "infallible" one.!

[@Vagabond824]

@@Herdingcats1917 that makes no sense

[@dfwherbie8814]

I think in 1 Corinthians 11:23 (I could be mistaken), Paul quotes from Matthew, which hadn’t be written yet. Even though it wasn’t written, it was often recited in the Divine Liturgy. There’s many examples, but that is a big one that shows that tradition is very important

[@122222770]

It's Orthodoxy. It's a mystical faith.

[@EdJacobsonWisco]

Protestant here. Learning about orthodoxy and church history. Wrestling with questions like, did the apostles teach sola scriptura? Did they intend tradition to remain? Going to visit a New Year’s Eve Divine Liturgy, we’ll see how it goes!

[@Stephanie_Villegas]

Also look into the LCMS, confessional Lutherans

[@CherryDreamer96]

Wow🤍 enjoy your first liturgy. May God bless you!

[@EdJacobsonWisco]

@ thanks 👍 I grew up in a Missouri synod Lutheran church, still have family in it. Thankful for them. Our household didn’t take it seriously growing up unfortunately. Been a Reformed Baptist for about 7 years. Hoping to understand and be connected to the history of the faith. Lord bless you.

[@EdJacobsonWisco]

@ thank you. Praying for wisdom and guidance. Lord bless you.

[@Getonthebusgus110]

@EdJacobsonWisco I grew up WELS, became Ev Free (basically baptist) and now swung way back the other way inquiring into the Orthodox church. Take your time. It's a lot to adjust to but it's well worth it.

[@WilliamWhitneyChristmasMD]

“Don’t California my Constantinople!”

[@synthesaurus]

You have no Constantinople left for some reason.

[@petern1945]

@@synthesaurus Constantinople is still there. The roman catholic church attacked it and stole all the gold and weakened it so much which in turn made it easy for the evil muslims to take it. It's occupied with evil humans.

[@piotrczubryt1111]

Constantinople is already californized.

[@EmilSosnin]

@@synthesaurus Moscow is the Third Rome

[@synthesaurus]

@@EmilSosnin have you lived in Moscow? It is a heavily secularized society with as much if not more degeneracy as the West even though you may see little of it in public.

[@pintswithaquinas]

Full interview will release this week. Join Locals to get these interviews earlier: mattfradd.locals.com/support 🙏

[@modernistfish]

I love how you're constantly interviewing my friends (Edem Kabasa) or friends of my friends (Jonathan Pageau). Makes me feel like I live with the Catholic Cinematic Universe!

[@justingraham2390]

Do you plan on having any supporters of the SSPX in the coming year?

[@alguemporai1-g4t]

@@pintswithaquinas Sei que foge totalmente ao tema desse corte de entrevista, mas recomendaria vivamente que fossem realizadas entrevistas com pessoas que foram vítimas de abuso sexual clerical. Cito principalmente o Joseph Sciambra, que, inclusive, atualmente é ortodoxo russo.

[@shaundaugherty1028]

In my experience, it is cradle Orthodox who have "baggage" just as often as any convert. I would offer that most converts from Protestantism come with very little baggage because of the thorough reexamination of themselves which it took to leave Protestantism and become Orthodox. I didn't leave Protestantism because they were wrong; I became Orthodox because I was wrong.

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

@@shaundaugherty1028 yeah most people from orthodox countires are not religioua at all and all they know about orthodoxy is some rituals and many times they have false beliefs. And no one is born orthodox everyone is joined to church through babtism and chrismation

[@magnusbekkestad]

@@shaundaugherty1028 well said. Alot of arrogance among cradle Orthodox

[@synthesaurus]

The russian orthodox church doesn’t even have a catechumen stage. They baptize asap. Don’t care what actually a person believes . Just the other day spoke to a guy who baptized his kids because it is good thing. He himself says he kinda believes in something but is not “phanatical” 😂

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

@synthesaurus of course most russian orthodox are samelike as most born lutherans and catholica. Do not know lot and totally secular

[@michaelsjourney777]

@@synthesaurus yea sadly many people baptize their kids without teaching them anything about the faith... this was the case for me as well, however, Glory be to God, i found my way back to the orthodox faith. the church does definitely not approve of parents baptizing their kids without taking care of catechizing them. i even heard some priests asking the parents whether they actually have faith.

[@dfwherbie8814]

Some Protestants are trying to Protestantize orthodoxy. Hopefully they have good spiritual fathers

[@alisterrebelo9013]

You're right about this. A few Protestant converts to Orthodoxy for example, have told me they will refuse to obey their bishop in the hypothetical situation in which Catholicism and Orthodoxy reunified regardless of the terms of the reunification, I.e. even if Catholicism withdrew all papal claims.

[@dfwherbie8814]

@@alisterrebelo9013I don’t understand why they don’t take our Lord seriously enough to listen to His teachings. He commands us to not only love even our enemies, but have mercy. Humility, meekness, lowly in heart is key

[@GladioUmbra]

I am a recent convert to Russian Orthodoxy from Protestantism. I was an ordained minister in the "restoration movement" Campbellites. I don't want to change Orthodoxy at all.

[@shaundaugherty1028]

Welcome home, my fellow former Campbellite! I too came out of the "restoration movement."

[@nakaimcaddis5531]

Hey, fellow restoration -> Orthodox brethren.

[@GladioUmbra]

@@shaundaugherty1028 Hey brother!

[@GladioUmbra]

@@nakaimcaddis5531 Hey bro

[@t.d6379]

Russian Orthodoxy 😂😂😂

[@TaraAmrit]

I agree about Christian mysticism - I love that aspect of Eastern Orthodoxy. What I struggle with is the 'Orthobro' culture of very young male, anime addicted, socially awkward gamers 'converting' to EO online and expressing extremely ego-driven, self flattering, aggressive, deeply misogynistic and often very dark views. That odd sub-set of Ortho larpers is missing the point. I think they misrepresent the Church entirely.

[@HkFinn83]

You’re both culture vultures and have far more in common with each other than you do orthodoxy

[@michaelsjourney777]

the "based, gigachad, redpilled" ortholarper culture does not represent the spirit of orthodoxy at all...

[@petern1945]

That aggressive behavior men have is what a woman likes, it's turn on.. They don't need your woke madness or weak men. Stay away from men if you don't like it. Get a normal education.

[@evertaj2438]

An extreme minority which is only present on the internet. You will seldom find these types in real life in a Church.

[@Ignis.lex.ignis.gratia]

Where do we find these people?

[@jrother]

Listening to Jonathan makes me long even more for a reunion of east and west. We need to breathe with both lungs again.

[@WanderingThief]

@@jrother That will never happen without Roman Catholics changing their dogma and returning to the teachings and traditions of the first 1000 years of Christianity. If you’re a Latin, and you think that your church hasn’t been “breathing with both lungs,” how then do you have the Catholic (universal) faith then? Was Roman Catholicism true until the schism, then it became false? Because that’s roughly our argument as Orthodox.

[@shaundaugherty1028]

One is either in the Church or not. Christ is not divided so neither can the Church be divided. Either Rome left the Orthodox or the Orthodox left Rome (whichever way you choose to view it); however, to refer to the Orthodox and Rome as if they are two lungs of one Church is to ignore or trivialize why they are separate in the first place. One more thing, to say "We need to breathe with both lungs again" implies one or both lungs is not functioning. If only one lung is functioning, which one? Which one is dysfunctional? If both lungs are not functioning, then the Church is dead.

[@miastupid7911]

@@jrother why don’t you become Orthodox? What’s stopping you? The Eastern Orthodox Church should not change to suit your romantic vision. If you are serious about it, become orthodox.

[@miastupid7911]

Matt, why don’t you become orthodox since you love this comment?

[@Ramonsotojr]

The Church is always One. Even in a schism. The catholic church has a unified body.

[@issaavedra]

After discovering Pageau I went from anti-theist to Orthodox in two years. I will be forever grateful.

[@elKarlo]

I was never an atheist or anything. But your testimony of shared correctly may be able to bring many who have no faith. May your testimony being others to faith and you and yours blessed.

[@faithalonesaves]

I've been studying Orthodoxy & Catholicism for longer than that. Orthodoxy is better than Catholicism because it enforces less man-made dogmas, but still watch out for Orthodox dogmatism. Read David Bentley Hart's book on Tradition for a solid Orthodox understanding.

[@HenryBonesJr]

There is an excellent article by Benjamin John on Substack entitled, "What Eastern Orthodox Apologists Miss About the Papacy: A Catholic perspective on popes, patriarchs, primacy, and Eucharistic ecclesiology."

[@issaavedra]

@@faithalonesaves Dogmas are there for the protection of the sacred. I accept "Orthodox dogmatist" wholeheartedly. I my view, I'm not there to change or judge the Church, I'm there to obey and to be changed.

@@faithalonesaves Man made dogma's nonsense as the Catholic Church has all authority declaring God's revealed Word.

[@Irockman1]

Looking forward to the full interview!

[@MightyFineMedia]

The issue I'm seeing in women's FB groups is that they are trying to hold onto their woke feminist attitudes; a the woke "virtue signalling nice" thing, and to evangelise even when the church is clear not to. Another really bad thing I see more widely is the desire to compromise the church to attract converts - the concept of "preserve the faith" is completely lost on them.

[@AliciatheCho]

Yes! As a new convert myself, I’ve learned that women are a biggest dissenters. Not just new converts but I’ve learned that Gen X/younger Boomers cradle Catholics women. They make the church out to be the villain as if doctrine isn’t God’s word. I reminded one of these women in my Catholic group that just because something is natural, it doesn’t make it moral. She had a gay grandson. It’s not the church; it is God’s will and plainly stated in Bible. She must have gotten so in her feelings that she and her friend stopped coming to the meetup. Like didn’t say this like a jerk, I said it straight forward. Getting offended over doctrine? Nah, ma’am you need to pray for understanding and fear God more than your grandson, as hard as it is

[@kevinmac8629]

@@MightyFineMedia I'm not sure what Orthodox evangelicalism would look like.

[@jnateh]

Evangelizing is a command straight from Christ, so if your church has a problem with that then there are major issues.

[@ryanvanhoy8004]

@@kevinmac8629 traditionally this was done by readers as they had more knowledge and experience than the average layperson.

[@kevinmac8629]

@@jnateh But it's done and thought of quite differently between Orthodox and reformed people.

[@frankherbert6476]

I was told when I converted that it would take 10 years to become Orthodox. Now I think that was optimistic. The common trend I see is that converts are really expecting a refined, better/perfect version of Protestantism where all the ills of their past denomination are fixed and cleaned up.

[@sweetstephylu]

@@frankherbert6476 yep

[@shaundaugherty1028]

To become Orthodox one needs to have a profound sense of their own sinfulness. In other words, one needs to have come to the understanding that others are not the problem; I am the problem. If you understand that, then you are already Orthodox.

[@vtino4825]

Thank God that it doesn’t take that long to become an authentic and True Disciple of Yeshua Messiah. Because the Living Messiah dwells within those who surrender their lives to Yeshua and He is more than willing to disciple those whom He indwells without all the religious baggages created by the Christian Pharisees throughout the centuries.

[@Cobruh_Commander]

@@frankherbert6476 That's a massive assumption based on your own limited experience.

[@frankherbert6476]

@@Cobruh_Commander "Massive assumption based on limited Experience"...that's funny. My experience has quite the depth and breadth of which you have no idea but have already assumed and passed judgement, wilst insulting, without asking a single question about said personal experiences. Amazing clarity. Go GI Joe.

[@ChrisVincent-w7t]

I’m a recent Protestant convert to Catholicism and am trying not to mess it up any more than the pope is.

[@hynjus001]

You have some way to go if you think a pope can mess up the Church of Jesus.

[@karlheven8328]

@@hynjus001Don‘t be judgmental its a legitimate question given the state of things

[@ChrisVincent-w7t]

I have a very long way to go

[@octuple505]

Lol don't worry, the Lord gives us different Pope's for his purposes. As a lay person focus on your parish and those around you. The news is part of the noise of the world and is a distraction.

[@d3adp94]

@@ChrisVincent-w7twelcome home.

[@AndyReichert0]

i have really enjoyed both of your channels. even as a protestant, it has been nice to be shown ways of seeing things that can help me better understand the faith as a whole.

[@Gunfighter95]

I watch a variety of catholic, orthodox, and protestant channels and when they come together to figure out what they agree on more than what they disagree on, I find it to be the best.

[@AndyReichert0]

@Gunfighter95 yes. it truly brings glory to God. As Jesus said, the world will see the legitimacy of Jesus when we unite, not when we divide! (John 17:23) it's so crazy that we agree on so many things that are exclusively Christian. We should treat other as followers of the same faith, not heretics and apostates. We agree that Jesus is God. We agree that God is triune. We agree that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead and that He is our savior. We largely agree on which books are the inspired word of God. A difference of opinion of interpretation on a subject not spelled out explicitly in scripture is not a difference of God.

[@MaximusAugustusOrthodox]

Glory to Christ and his Holy Orthodox Church 🤍☦️

[@charliek2557]

Every time i watch Matt has a different mustache

[@shaundaugherty1028]

Perhaps Matt needs to spend a little more time reading what the Church Fathers have to say concerning men's facial hair . . . smile.

[@PastorChris87]

0:48 John working the JP hand signals lol

[@cfox109]

@@PastorChris87 he's been doing that. In old videos too. Trying to pinpoint if it's just 2 similar things or if there's a point he starts doing it haha

[@122222770]

Orthodoxy is made to go into new cultures. It will be interesting to see it's impact on Americans.

[@graysonallen4418]

Maybe it will impact us very badly, and we ruin it forever! I mean, look at Protestantism and Catholicism. Both went woke and destroyed themselves! I hope Orthodoxy doesn't share the same fate because everything the west touches dies!

[@Cup0Coffee]

@@graysonallen4418Read Church history, nothing new is under the sun, and Orthodox Christianity has prevailed. The only one to fear is the Lord, not woke, not anything else.

[@RicoMnc]

A lot of us American converts bring "baggage". Much of it is displayed in YT videos and comments.

[@Izadoreseville]

Love pageau

[@fujikokun]

I don’t think it’s as much of a worry with Orthodoxy as Catholicism. Orthodoxy requires much more rigorous assimilation, and the rate of converts is and very likely will remain relatively slow. Additionally Protestantism came from Catholicism, and given how similar their approach is to the faith, it’s easy to imagine how Protestants could embrace certain aspects of Catholicism while preferring aspects of their former denomination. Orthodoxy on the other hand requires a paradigm shift in order to integrate. It’s not just very different from Protestantism, it’s very different from Catholicism. The only way I can imagine a Protestant ethos sneaking in is if the convert ratio were extremely high, recent, and there was an extreme lack of oversight.

[@ryrocks9487]

That's probably true. It's why having a decent sized catechumate is so important for us, so that we can make sure our mind changes.

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

The Eastern Orthodox Church isn't exactly known for its oversight TBF...

[@ryanvanhoy8004]

@@user-or4ut2qi3q the strict preservation of tradition within Eastern Orthodoxy vs the various abortions the papacy has vomited forth prove your statement to without reason or logic.

[@SolusChristus3]

There seems to be a movement from Protestant to Catholic. What am I missing? Did something happen recently? As a Protestant, should I be intrigued?

[@kirbysmith4135]

@@SolusChristus3 In our Baptist church, we have had quite a good number of Catholics want to be immersed and have joined our church.

[@karlheven8328]

Glad you asked, I think people are finally coming around to the fact that privatization of faith (effect of the Reformation)is a bad thing, faith is and should be public in all its liturgical form with the saints and all the visible signs of holiness that the church offers. It‘s not that protestants have bad faith, but where the lack of a social teaching or sound teaching of human nature and general morality leads. This is my interpretation as a recent convert (Dec. 23).

[@ExpiditionWild]

@@karlheven8328The Reformation was glorious and saved a continent from backwards superstition and feudal slavery

[@kirbysmith4135]

@SolusChristus3 I posted this, but it must have been deleted. So here goes again: Over the years, at our Baptist church, we have had quite a few Catholics ask to be immersed and have joined our church. Just to give another perspective.

[@karlheven8328]

⁠​⁠@@ExpiditionWildIf you read Luther you find a lot of superstitition in his beliefs about witches etc. Even feudalism has nothing to do with the church, it only stopped after the French Revolution so it has nothing to do with Protestantism. Your arguments fail to support your thesis that the Reformation was „glorious“. Even the enlightenment was not coming from protestantism purely

[@megred7364]

From my perspective as a former Protestant in the process of converting to Catholicism, it feels very much like I have had to forsake many of the attitudes, postures and understandings of worship for long held traditional ones of Catholicism. I don't feel like I have brought much with me, and still, as I learn more, I continue to find more errors I held that I have to give up. I would also suggest, though, that in a sense, every Catholic is a convert, and we should all continually be in a process of purging ourselves from error. (Perhaps that's another one of my Protestant views, though.)

[@slickmechanical]

I converted from protestantism 20 years ago. It took me more than a decade to fully acclimate the way I thought about things, so be patient with yourself. The Holy Ghost will bring you along and with every reception of a sacrament the grace you receive will transform you. I'll leave you with something about worship that blew mind. For anyone in an apostolic form of Christianity, worship is the adoration and reception of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. The only man who ever worshipped God in a way that pleased Him was Christ on the cross. We literally have nothing within ourselves that we can offer God, true worship requires the power of God working through the hands of a minister to make Christ present in that way. It is very humbling and it doesn't have any of the sentimentality of "worship" music that appeals to our tastes or preferences. We call the adoration of the Eucharist, Latria. Dulia is the honor we give to His saints and Hyper Dulia we offer the Blessed Virgin. Most protestants confuse Dulia with Latria because they are unable to worship the Eucharist and the best they have to offer God is Dulia. This distinction helped me understand better the Church's practices and devotions and it deepened my understanding of the Eucharist. God bless you on your journey, may you find a home in Christ's Church.

[@Clay-x5n]

Its a journey for sure. We're all just chasing God and falling deeper in love the further we run. We'll never have every last detail worked out until we see the beatific vision.

[@TourniquetAndDeliverance]

I know a lot more Catholics who converted to protestant evangelicalism than I do protestants who converted to Catholicism. I can't say I know many Orthos who've converted or prots who converted to Ortho. Orthodox is pretty rare in my home state of NJ when compared to RCC.

[@colmcille9669]

@@TourniquetAndDeliverance If you hang out with protestants you will meet more ex-catholic protestants than vice verse regardless of their actual distribution in society.

[@matthew7491]

Same. But the online discourse is the other way around. Protestants converting to Catholicism is a very online trend. You can argue whether that's good or bad but objectively there's significantly more Catholics becoming Protestant than vice versa.

[@PoppinPsinceAD33]

Because Protestantism is appealing for its spirit of rebellion and self righteousness in my opinion. If you’re not well taught in Catholicism Protestantism is easy to fall into.

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

Many catholics and orthodox do convert to proteatantism. You dont know many orthos who converted to prots becouse there are not many orthos in your country. In Russia and Ukrania there are many convert from ortho do prot. More that other way around. And in spain there are thousands of converts from catholism to prot. Not so much other way around. Maybe in america you have other way arouns becouse you initially have more prots

[@vieersfan]

I’m Polish National Catholic, I can keep my full Catholicity and my Western heritage

[@michaelladjevic2172]

People, especially young adults are coming back to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church for the Holy Mass of the Ages. The reverence for our Lord, the sacraments, the call to holiness of life, to be in the world, but not of the world is what's attracting young people to the church and giving them a true meaning in life. Our relationship with God! To Know, Love, and Serve Him!

[@matthewxx99]

Matt you had Tim on your show looool. I couldnt tell if it was a jab at him or if he genuinely forgot his name

[@aureum7479]

3:09 Dude you had Tim on your podcast 💀

[@ChrisVincent-w7t]

@@aureum7479 LOL . Matt’s a dingus . Gotta love him

[@danielsampong6607]

At first I thought u meant Tim Staples but u mean Gordon but yes he’s had both

[@chillyobaggins]

Too many pints?

[@Freedom_is_better_than_safety]

What “baggage” did Protestants bring?? lol. We brought intense study of the word. We brought desire for what the cradle Catholics took for granted. Saying we’re not Catholic is like saying that people born in the United States are more American than people who immigrated here. Most Americans can’t pass a basic citizenship test. Cradle Catholics have been poorly catechized for years and don’t know their faith. So as far as baggage converts brought, I would worry more about the baggage we had to help remove to unite Jesus’ church in the fullness of faith.

[@AluminiumT6]

You're not Catholic. Cope 👍

[@sanjivjhangiani3243]

The question here was what cultural or theological baggage Protestant converts to ORTHODOXY bring to that religion and how it might affect Orthodoxy, at least in North America.

[@AluminiumT6]

@@Freedom_is_better_than_safety Protestantism was totally unnecessary for deep study of the Scriptures.

[@Freedom_is_better_than_safety]

⁠@@sanjivjhangiani3243That’s the overall question, but that’s NOT Matt’s question going in. He said what did Protestants do to Catholicism. And basically does that translate into how Protestants affect Orthodoxy.

[@Freedom_is_better_than_safety]

@@AluminiumT6It should’ve been, but the overall effect was a breakdown of daily readings more than the simple reading and short homily on them. Protestants that were used to Bible study each week for an hour instead of the real worship really drove the study of the word in Catholicism.

[@xxFairestxx]

Myagi complex? Sorry but the truth of Christianity is alive in the East. Is what it is. Christ, the light of the world, came FROM THE EAST.

[@matheusmotta1750]

Eastern (Byzantine) Catholics are just former Orthodox that converted to Rome. So you did receive the practice from the Orthodox, there's no way getting around that.

[@johnny5731]

Is the full show coming out in a week or just a missing link in description?

[@Audleyweir11111]

Thanks for the informative video! I would love if you also have interviews with orthodox monastics and clergy.

[@kevinmac8629]

Protestantism seems like its in a loss to answer these new questions that Eastern Orthodoxy is bringing to the table.

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

Like what?

[@kevinmac8629]

@Thatoneguy-pu8ty One would be, how they justify (as a Protestant) having a Bible?

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

@@kevinmac8629 As in the formulation of the canon?

[@kevinmac8629]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty That, and even be granted to have one, let alone the correct one.

[@kevinmac8629]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty All of it. It's formation and it being taken out of the context of the Church.

[@synthesaurus]

Orthodoxy in the traditionally orthodox nations became nothing but a shell. “Absorbing orthodoxy through culture” does not exist there. What is absorbed is superstitions and distortions. Most baptized orthodox will tell you “yes, I believe something exists out there but a I am not that fanatical.” I think “pietism” and “puritanism” is not a bad thing.

[@sweetxjc]

I disagree with most baptized Orthodox in traditionally Orthodox countries believe that because most of them still baptize their children and they attend services like Christmas and Easter. They also know and profess the creed and know the liturgy. Bare minimum and they’re the only countries withstanding wokism. Unlike countries where puritans were. Most of them don’t even attend those services anymore.

[@synthesaurus]

@ I am more familiar (and familial) with the situation in countries like Ukraine and Russia. The church is attended by a tiny percent of the population even on Pascha. Just because culturally they resist some western insanities does not mean they are immune from them. Just remember how quickly they rejected God and their Tzar at the turn of the 20th century. Just as the alaskan Aleuts became Orthodox without becoming “eastern” so will be with protestant americans.

[@bdchatfi]

Is there any discussion on how long Orthodox converts remain Orthodox? How many return to Catholicism or Protestantism or Atheism?

[@nbinghi]

Where is the full show link?

[@trosenthal3711]

It's on Locals and will release here next week

[@joshua12084]

This makes me want to be catholic

[@PantheraOnca60]

That is God's voice. Follow Him and become Catholic!

[@bluecomb5376]

Here's your personal invitation to check out your local Catholic church on New years day for holy mass!

[@kage239]

When is it releasing?

[@sam_b]

2 days

[@OrthodoxFamilyLife]

The conversation around converts is complicated. There are a lot of variables at play in each convert's life. I converted to Orthodoxy 30 years ago and I think it is sort of normal for new converts to be overly zealous and be sort of know-it-alls. It doesn't mean they are bad people, just sick like the rest of us, which is why they are coming to the Church... it is a hospital. Yes, they need to repent, but people aren't healed overnight. They need time and patience. I think the difference between now and 30 years ago is that as a 20yo new convert in 1996 I could be over zealous and a know-it-all and only the other young Orthodox people that I was hanging out with could see it. Now, there are many "Orthodox" channels run by these same types of people. It can become an echo chamber where their bad ideas start to seem normal to them. We, thank God, did not have that opportunity years ago, so we could chill out over time without much long term side effects. This is why so many priest and Orthodox laity tell the new people not to get their Orthodoxy online, or if you do make sure it is someone who has been around for a while. Ultimately, all the new converts need good Orthodox role models in their lives, so all of us who have been in the church for a while should do our best to welcome them and to help them.

[@randomjake1488]

As a convert from Catholicism to holy Orthodoxy, I’m very happy you’re having Orthodox people on the podcast, Matt! May the holy fruits that come from the church be shown abundantly ☦️

[@karlheven8328]

I always wonder in cases like yours, was it that you always were not sure about immaculate conception, infallability of the Pope and purgatory or you changed your mind? Curious, because these 3 things seem to be the main actual theological dogmatic difference if there are any, besides the tendency of neo- palmanism rejecting traditional scholasticism as allegededly erroneous „rationalism“ (which in itself seems to suggest fideism)

[@aceofclubs2755]

@@karlheven8328 I think it usually has less to do with theology, and more to do with overall experience

[@essafats5728]

@@aceofclubs2755 just the experience of Divine Liturgy, or the whole Orthodox way of life?

[@kevinhertzler7662]

Jonathan Pageau tells us to make straight the way

[@k.scotsparks9247]

Does the question's generality tempt us even further into less helpful generality (by way of responding to such a question)? There are so many different kinds of American converts, alas.

[@OrthodoxFamilyLife]

yes, exactly!

[@alicemoore2036]

Bible study and education is something that unites Protestant denominations. As a Lutheran, all denominations have to come together by the common belief in Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins. This can overcome bad Popes and changes in doctrine. How many may be converting from Protestantism to Orthodoxy or Catholicism because of faiths such Lutheranism and Presbyterianism being the Plain Janes of Christianity.

Popes do not have the authority to change any doctrines they are there to Defend the Deposit of the True Catholic Faith. The pope does have the authority to change in the way we worship. Protestants want Christ but without his Cross and His Church. They worship in the way they want to which is a form of idol worship. In his Cross flow all God's graces as Mary is full of grace. Graces are needed for eternal life.

[@alicemoore2036]

We must agree to disagree. We do have Christ’s Church. We also believe that we have the Grace of God by accepting Christ as our Savior. I won’t go there to graven images and idol worship.

[@davidthegood]

@@alicemoore2036 I suggest you read the Early Church Fathers. I was once in the same camp as you, so I know how you feel, but I have now come home. "Four Witnesses" is a powerful look at the Early Church.

[@PoppinPsinceAD33]

@@alicemoore2036Alice, if God commanded images to made for worship, I don’t know what to tell you (he did… 😮)

[@s.novozhilov1856]

I generally have high hopes for American Ortgodoxy. Im its home I feel like its a deadly fight. And not with outside forces, but internal: lack of catechisation, superstitious behaviours, ecumenism with muslims and secularists while ostracizing Christian confessions, internal political strife between Moskow, Kyiv and the rest of the Church

[@MavourneenKathleen-l5j]

‘When the pope speaks, the world listens’.

[@glorianomad6350]

NOT THE ORTHODOX WORLD.

[@mansourannab7078]

ايها الرب يسوع المسيح الهى يا ابن الله الوحيد أحرس كنيستك الأرثوذكسية الأمريكا وشعبك ☦️☦️☦️ امين

[@christianbaxter_yt]

been waiting to hear this very point from The Pag : )

[@JaredChacon]

Converts get so much heat from everyone for being vigorous and puritanical. But what I hear far less critiques for are the cradle Orthodox who know virtually nothing about thier faith and practice it very little, seeing church life more as a culture club to visit once a year. Both converts and many cradle Orthodox have their issues and persue Orthodoxy from a place of error. This is a path we are all on together. Converts aren't joining the culture club, they are joining the journey towards an Orthodox life. Cradles should learn vigor from converts. Truth us worth being vigorous about.

[@John777-3]

As a convert, I just want to say that I would truly prefer it if we didn't attempt to Westernize the Church in any way. The Byzantine culture and what the Faith is, is what the Faith should be. In no way do I believe that the Church needs to "reclaim" our Latin rite. God saw fit for us to lose that aspect of the Church and I don't believe He would have seen this as something that should have happened unless it was His Will for His Bride.

[@alguemporai1-g4t]

@pintswithaquinas Sei que foge totalmente ao tema desse corte de entrevista, mas recomendaria vivamente que fossem realizadas entrevistas com pessoas que foram vítimas de abuso sexual clerical. Cito principalmente o Joseph Sciambra, que, inclusive, atualmente é ortodoxo russo.

[@stephenbailey9969]

The gospel is eternal and transcends historical and cultural factors. Let not those factors limit the fellowship in Christ.

[@Manpayi]

Yeah, still not becoming a papist. The Pope is the first among equals, nothing more.

[@PuzzlesC4M]

I’d like to think that it won’t be Americans influencing the church so much in years to come as it will be Africans and others in the global south.

[@CherryDreamer96]

Why was there a dramatic increase of Catholic converts in the 90s?

[@joeybwalsh]

That’s one of my contentions with orthodox churches in the US. It seems a little bit like a bunch of ex fundamentalist Protestants larping. And why does it seem like a lot of North American orthodox influencers put on some type of fake accent or forced articulation when they speak?

[@synthesaurus]

Maybe out of harping the real faith will form.

[@omalleyelley12]

The Russian pilgrim? What book is he talking about at 3:50 please

[@jjm19955]

@@omalleyelley12 The Way of a Pilgrim and its sequel The Pilgrim Continues on His Way

[@GrGal]

The best thing to learn from Protestants is to focus on our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and preach the Word further to others, pointing directly to Jesus, without getting lost in the saints life, and without getting drowned in sophisticated deep theology or worse, straightforward philosophy. Don’t get me wrong, these are things to appreciate and learn from, but if becomes too centralized, where is our own Christ-centered life at?

[@shobudski6776]

Ignore the lives of the Saints and lose the examples of what it takes to make one a better Christian 😊and a Christ centered life? No thank you.

[@SeanWaters1120]

@@GrGal You understand why some people become saints right. Because they lived a Christ like life.

[@GrGal]

@@shobudski6776 I didn’t say to ignore, and man, you saying no thank you to the core of your faith… how do you not tremble? And to the other person, yes I understand, and we should learn from them but not focus on their life, we have our own shoes we have to walk in and follow Christ directly.

[@PhillyGold]

Man.. Christianity started as a small localized jewish movement.. and the gospel spread through the whole world.. how do you think that is? Have you looked into the insane persecution that early Christians had to go through for the faith to make it to us? So what your suggesting is to basically forget the saints.. they arent important? By your logic they would seldom be taught of, remembered, or embraced. Please look into "Theosis"... Also i would refer you to Revelation 8:3-4 If you are against asking the Saints for their prayers.. Its beyond me man, why protestants will ask their congregation for prayers, or their "prayer teams" as ive heard them called by protestant friends. But wont ask literal Martyrs and defenders of the faith..

[@James-k8w3g]

If we are living ose to the end times, the fathers say the one holy catholic and apostolic Church will be persecuted, down to a remnant. Don't hold out your breath for the unity of churches or a new civilisation.

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

I am not american nor western european but i think many american orthodox believers and other converts all around a world want to be too much not like protestants. I mean not everythingg that protestants do is wrong. There is some kind of protestant phobia among american orthodox. In reality we could learn lot from protestants. And there is nothing wrong to have your own culture and own "baggage". Orthodoxy definetly needs to look different in different places. Thats how it has awlays been. In eastern and northern eastern europe orthodoxy has always been different in different countries.

[@sweetxjc]

I agree that there’s anti-Protestant sentiment but it’s for a good reason. What Protestantism is and means here in the US is something very different than Protestantism in the Eastern Europe. In America Protestantism and religion overall is very different here. It is not something to embrace.

[@JoaquimSh]

That why many catholics left the church after it got protestantised

[@Cup0Coffee]

I kinda disagree, it's equivalent to drinking poison your whole life and then finding out how refreshing water can be. American Protestantism is insane brother, a whole different Protestantism than in Europe. Sure there are some good Protestants, amazing people with love and good hearts, but even then they are riddled with prelest and bad theology. Anything good to learn from them already exists in Orthodoxy to some degree, and I've never liked those phony street preachers anyhow lol

[@pravoslavy5]

The Byzantine expression of Christianity should not be seen as something foreign or exotic to Westerners...it's Eastern ROMAN. To this day the Eastern Orthodox in the Middle East are called the Roman Orthodox. It existed in Old Rome itself for centuries, St. Nilus of Rossano, etc...South Italy and Sicily were are one time full of Byzantine Christians.

[@billromansky9716]

Pope Francis is my Miyagi.

[@zachsiphone7818]

Matt, you moved to America. Interesting you didn’t move to a structurally orthodox or even catholic country. Keep that in mind. Say what you like about Protestantism but you moved here. Curious.

[@someinteresting]

It'll be interesting to see an autocephalous church of US.

[@HubertofLiege]

Change? What’s that?

[@OpenOceanOnly]

"There's so much wisdom and beauty in the West but it's like we forsake it for something elusive [in the East]" says the Byzantine who rails against the Novus Ordo

[@ryanpat3797]

I was born Catholic, converted to Orthodoxy, but I still have appreciation for Catholicism and my Catholic friends. Orthodoxy has helped to give me appreciation for what tradition still remains in Catholicism, and has helped to build a bigger friendship between Catholics and Orthodox in my community. Orthodxy flourishing is the biggest hope Catholics have on returning to, or retaining the tradition that they once had. Coming to Orthodox Divine services really shows what has been taken away and removed from the Catholic Church, but gives me hope that Rome will one day will return to the tradition that has been lost.

[@777igg]

IF I were to join a liturgical church and tradition my only request would be allowing me to Evangelize or I’m out of there.

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

With Eastern Orthodox you need permission.

[@synthesaurus]

You need to evangelize with the fruits of the Spirit. And as it turns out a spiritual war reveals very little in most of us. Evangelizing with word and not deeds often has the opposite effect

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

@@synthesaurus true

[@sweetxjc]

You can evangelize in EO. But you must learn the EO teachings first in order to do so.

[@sweetxjc]

@@user-or4ut2qi3qWho told you that? You don’t need permission to evangelize. There’s many ways to evangelize that isn’t being a street preacher. You can evangelize by talking to relative. You don’t need permission to do that

[@nikokatos]

All you have to do is just see what the OCA is like. It also becomes nationalistic which will be interesting. Like was said here is the dangers of charismatic stuff which we are already seeing with other youtube priests. I will say that the experience itself will never feel like Orthodoxy that is heavily embedded within ethnic and cultural identity. Chanting in English is awful.

[@sweetxjc]

OCA isn’t nationalistic. And chanting in English maybe awful to you but for English speakers we prefer it because it’s the language that we speak. Degrading other people’s language makes it sound like you’re the nationalist. There are many church languages outside of Slavonic and Greek. On top of that many countries that are majority Orthodox, the church is also the state church. So who’s more nationalist the Greek Orthodox Church, that is the state church of Greece or OCA, the church that isn’t and has never been the state church?

[@nikokatos]

@ I never said that the other churches are not nationalistic of course they are. However they are from governments that are not completely capitalist which therefore puts OCA in a complex position. The OCA itself may not be nationalistic but many within it are and are part of extreme MAGA Trumpism. As for the English chanting I am referring to the immigrant parishes that try to chant in the same tone as the mother tongue and have not switched over to the English slavonic melody so to speak. Either way it doesn’t sound right to me personally in English yet my parish was colonized by converts and now am forced to listen to it across the US unless I am in NYC or Detroit where you can still get a full service in Greek.

[@10.6.12.]

Puritan, pietistic, fundamentalist ( neo-patristic)... that already is happening. Perhaps why Pageau has turned to the new age version of Orthodoxy. Myth, stories, symbolism . He says Bible but that is not what one is seeing.

[@randomjake1488]

Matt Frad has more in common with Orthodoxy then he does Catholicism because of him being Byzantine Rite, which came wholesale from Orthodoxy ☦️

[@josephgreenecomposer7046]

That's just not true because the Byzantine Rites of Catholicism acknowledge the Vicar of Christ.

[@randomjake1488]

@ I’m aware, but the eastern liturgy, the faith, their cannon, their saints, etc come Wholesale from Holy Orthodoxy. In Eastern parishes their clergy tell Catholics that they can fulfill their Sunday obligations at Orthodox churches. The 1% of Eastern Catholics are much more similar to us than their 99% Novus Ordo brothers and sisters.

[@UhKhakis9228]

We Catholics are universal. Cant say the same for our Eastern Orthodox brothers

[@randomjake1488]

Universal in name only. German Catholics are on the brink of schism to bless same sex marriages, there was just an LGBT affirming conference in San Diego, there are Liberation Theory Catholics who overthrew Latin American governments (essentially Catholic socialism) Eastern Catholics essentially ignore anything the pope says, the SSPX, TLM Catholics and sedevacantists claim the pope is heretical. Etc… When I was a Catholic, each parish’s faith would vary greatly, in Orthodoxy, it is always the same faith. I do not mean to come off rude, but it is the truth. I’m sorry.

[@randomjake1488]

@@UhKhakis9228 Universal in name only. German Catholics are on the brink of schism to bless same sex marriages, there was just an LGBT affirming conference in San Diego, there are Liberation Theory Catholics who overthrew Latin American governments (essentially Catholic socialism) Eastern Catholics essentially ignore anything the pope says, the SSPX, TLM Catholics and sedevacantists claim the pope is heretical. Etc… When I was a Catholic, each parish’s faith would vary greatly, in Orthodoxy, it is always the same faith. I do not mean to come off rude, but it is the truth. I’m sorry.

[@johnparker4484]

Watched this for Pageau, otherwise I really didn’t care for the condescending demeanor of the questions from the host. Won’t be watching more from him

[@PatronSaintSpyridon]

Fly

[@robotrobot4430]

Can a Protestant be saved?

[@V4nillakid]

Only God is the judge

[@leviwilliams9601]

Can a Catholic be saved? What a weird question....

[@PantheraOnca60]

Yes.

[@AluminiumT6]

Protestants are in serious danger of not being saved.

[@johnnyd2383]

Yes, if he/she converts to Orthodoxy in time. We do not know anybody outside of the Noah's Ark who survived flood. Do you.?

[@Joemck07]

I was the first view lol

[@vinoneil]

Congrats! 🎉👏🥳🤯💥

[@PonderingThought-ke6qb]

:)

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

The first view & comment actually lol

[@lifematterspodcast]

Lol

[@timothyfreeman97]

All trying to justify their rejection of Rome.

[@harrygarris6921]

There are some converts from catholicism to Orthdoxy, but most Orthodox Christians were never catholic. Union with the Pope was never a necessary part of their faith in the first place so I'd hardly say that they "rejected" it, rather they didn't see the justification for it being necessary.

[@d3adp94]

“Pope man bad, me not like..”

[@janelleg597]

Yes. Jesus is the head not Rome.

[@timothyfreeman97]

@@harrygarris6921 nice, bro. Keep it comin'

[@timothyfreeman97]

@@harrygarris6921 there are *MANY* converts from eastern Orthodoxy to Catholicism.

[@EricCastleman]

Well, at the moment, the converts coming into Orthodoxy are greatly harming it.

[@KalebOfAxum12]

How so?

[@unclepierreforpm5733]

Care to elaborate on that statement?

[@crushtheserpent]

Too political? MAGA and far-right?

[@sillysyriac8925]

Evidence? Beyond anecdotal, I doubt you’ll bring any. Without new converts, Orthodoxy would slowly die in then states as immigrant communities lose most of their their children to apostasy. Those are the facts.

[@katiek.8808]

So a vague meaningless statement?

[@Eu-Abreu]

I'm a Catholic Portuguese married to a Ukrainian orthodox, and our faith is very similar. I got to read more about orthodoxy and deepen my interest for orthodox faith (not to convert) and I even have and pray a prayer rope. I'm seeing a internet phenomenon happening, specially in USA, in which more young protestant people, that are in the phase of looking for a identity and religion affiliation, converting to orthodoxy because off some fascination with aesthetical aspects. However I'm watching a perversion of Christianity happening along with it that ranges from TRAD edits using Brazilian funk (with lincentious lyrics), a lack of profound dive in the real orthodox faith and an aggressive attitude towards any other branch of Christianity, specially towards catholics (something they grew with in protestantism, and want to maintain), and this accentuates more the division that orthodox and catholics are trying to eliminate. This youth is saying they converted to "orthodoxy" but they don't name which one, they don't know that are conflicts among different orthodox churches, they don't understand that are orthodox churches in communion with the catholic church and others that look for being closer through eukomenic dialogue and theological dialogue (that are stopped by Russian orthodoxy, that looks for a supremacy within the orthodox faith and profits with the division). I think that Russia is very successful in their national marketing (they invest heavily in propaganda), and the orthodoxy that is spreading is through this "Russian Orthodox based" accounts, because Russian orthodoxy is unfortunately being used as politicized weapon of a ethno-nationalistic ambitions. And the USA is being to permeable to Russian propaganda through the internet lately.

[@Eu-Abreu]

@nathankirwan2565 hi, thank you for the polite response. Attention, I didn't said "Russian based accounts", but I now realize why you understood that way, because of the way I wrongly wrote it. The better way to put is: accounts of ""Based" Russian orthodox", like in the slang "he is based". For that I'm sorry. What I meant was that my perception is that people aren't choosing orthodoxy because of the mystic depth of the faith, like pageau mentioned, but because it gives a "cool asthetic empowering trigger" in a moment of their lives when they search for belonging and identity more than meaning. But is good that you mentioned the question of what kind of orthodox channels I consider "dangerous", because one came immediately to mind and that is "Patristic Nectar Films with father Josiah Trenham" (that I stopped following), also, not as dangerous but also very uncomfortable sometimes is "roots of orthodoxy" (that I still follow) , they gathers alot of different fathers from orthodoxy, but some of them just like to keep on talking about catholicism in a bad manner (father Josiah is one of them). I understand why people need to explain why they follow X and not Y but sometimes is to much, and it really comes out of a playbook that isn't theirs originally to begin with. They didn't born in the culture to be that much influenced by its passion, they entered the culture of orthodoxy as Americans, however they spit disdain and false "condolences" towards catholics, like they suffered the schism on their own flesh. Father josiah is to fishy for me, very politicized, talks more about the mundane than the faith. The way he lies about catholicism, about the "persecution of Christians" in Ukraine, the way he defended Pasha Mercedes, is all very strange for me. Orthodoxy isn't this, and to say it is, is to drag the faith of orthodoxy on the ground, and that is to do it to christ too. But this is just my vision of things.

Great point; Fatima warned us about Russian spreading her errors and sure enough Eastern Europe suffered from Russian communism. Love the Algarve beaches.

[@Eu-Abreu]

@@nathankirwan2565 @nathankirwan2565 hi, thank you for the polite response. Attention, I didn't said "Russian based accounts", but I now realize why you understood that way, because of the way I wrongly wrote it. The better way to put is: accounts of ""Based" Russian orthodox", like in the slang "he is based". For that I'm sorry. What I meant was that my perception is that people aren't choosing orthodoxy because of the mystic depth of the faith, like pageau mentioned, but because it gives a "cool asthetic empowering trigger" in a moment of their lives when they search for belonging and identity more than meaning. But is good that you mentioned the question of what kind of orthodox channels I consider "dangerous", because one came immediately to mind and that is "Patristic Nectar Films with father Josiah Trenham" (that I stopped following), also, not as dangerous but also very uncomfortable sometimes is "roots of orthodoxy" (that I still follow) , they gathers alot of different fathers from orthodoxy, but some of them just like to keep on talking about catholicism in a bad manner (father Josiah is one of them). I understand why people need to explain why they follow X and not Y but sometimes is to much, and it really comes out of a playbook that isn't theirs originally to begin with. They didn't born in the culture to be that much influenced by its passion, they entered the culture of orthodoxy as Americans, however they spit disdain and false "condolences" towards catholics, like they suffered the schism on their own flesh. Father josiah is to fishy for me, very politicized, talks more about the mundane than the faith. The way he lies about catholicism, about the "persecution of Christians" in Ukraine, the way he defended Pasha Mercedes, is all very strange for me. Orthodoxy isn't this, and to say it is, is to drag the faith of orthodoxy on the ground, and that is to do it to christ too.

[@Eu-Abreu]

@@nathankirwan2565 hi, thank you for the polite response. Attention, I didn't said "Russian based accounts", but I now realize why you understood that way, because of the way I wrongly wrote it. The better way to put is: accounts of ""Based" Russian orthodox", like in the slang "he is based". For that I'm sorry. What I meant was that my perception is that people aren't choosing orthodoxy because of the mystic depth of the faith, like pageau mentioned, but because it gives a "cool asthetic empowering trigger" in a moment of their lives when they search for belonging and identity more than meaning. But is good that you mentioned the question of what kind of orthodox channels I consider "dangerous", because one came immediately to mind and that is "Patristic Nectar Films with father Josiah Trenham" (that I stopped following), also, not as dangerous but also very uncomfortable sometimes is "roots of orthodoxy" (that I still follow) , they gathers alot of different fathers from orthodoxy, but some of them just like to keep on talking about catholicism in a bad manner (father Josiah is one of them). I understand why people need to explain why they follow X and not Y but sometimes is to much, and it really comes out of a playbook that isn't theirs originally to begin with. They didn't born in the culture to be that much influenced by its passion, they entered the culture of orthodoxy as Americans, however they spit disdain and false "condolences" towards catholics, like they suffered the schism on their own flesh. Father josiah is to fishy for me, very politicized, talks more about the mundane than the faith. The way he lies about catholicism, about the "persecution of Christians" in Ukraine, the way he defended Pasha Mercedes, is all very strange for me. Orthodoxy isn't this, and to say it is, is to drag the faith of orthodoxy on the ground, and that is to do it to christ too.

[@Eu-Abreu]

@@nathankirwan2565 my comment is no appearing but I said this: @nathankirwan2565 hi, thank you for the polite response. Attention, I didn't said "Russian based accounts", but I now realize why you understood that way, because of the way I wrongly wrote it. The better way to put is: accounts of ""Based" Russian orthodox", like in the slang "he is based". For that I'm sorry. What I meant was that my perception is that people aren't choosing orthodoxy because of the mystic depth of the faith, like pageau mentioned, but because it gives a "cool asthetic empowering trigger" in a moment of their lives when they search for belonging and identity more than meaning. But is good that you mentioned the question of what kind of orthodox channels I consider "dangerous", because one came immediately to mind and that is "Patristic Nectar Films with father Josiah Trenham" (that I stopped following), also, not as dangerous but also very uncomfortable sometimes is "roots of orthodoxy" (that I still follow) , they gathers alot of different fathers from orthodoxy, but some of them just like to keep on talking about catholicism in a bad manner (father Josiah is one of them). I understand why people need to explain why they follow X and not Y but sometimes is to much, and it really comes out of a playbook that isn't theirs originally to begin with. They didn't born in the culture to be that much influenced by its passion, they entered the culture of orthodoxy as Americans, however they spit disdain and false "condolences" towards catholics, like they suffered the schism on their own flesh. Father josiah is to fishy for me, very politicized, talks more about the mundane than the faith. The way he lies about catholicism, about the "persecution of Christians" in Ukraine, the way he defended Pasha Mercedes, is all very strange for me. Orthodoxy isn't this, and to say it is, is to drag the faith of orthodoxy on the ground, and that is to do it to christ too.

[@Isaiah53-FL]

Schism of 1054 has been solved

[@beskow749]

No?

[@mollyporium5086]

@@beskow749 Its... a... Joke...

[@johnnyd2383]

Seriously.? Sounds like April's Fool joke but we have months before April comin'. It hasn't and will not be unless Latins repent and confess Orthodox faith.

[@essafats5728]

@@johnnyd2383 Yep, now that the West has been civilized by the big bad Catholics, with minimal help from the EO/no help from the Prottys, EO can now yap all they like. But until the EO can return the Sophia Haggia to its rightful owners, keep yapping - mankind has all the time and patience.

[@johnnyd2383]

@@essafats5728 Bloodthirsty West that still lives off of colonization and wages wars left and right in the name of "democracy", while destroying families, chopping of genitals of the children, etc. you call "civilized".? Oh boy... you live in loo loo land of your delusions. If you were to have any conscience left, you would have never refer to the beast (Rev 13,4) as to "civilized". We have never been more barbaric in our history, but it is all wrapped in a giftwrap and all atrocities we do have "higher cause".

[@jeremiah5342]

God gave us three branches of Christianity because He knew each one would get something wrong.

[@WanderingThief]

No 😂

[@tcrown3333]

An irrelevant and slightly boring conversation about delusion!

[@klemperal]

If you spent more time formulating your comment and less time trying to be snarky, people would know who you are even talking about.

[@flowbrandz316]

Icon veneration will have to go!

[@tonyz1241]

@@flowbrandz316 respectfully, looking at family photos, praying for other people you know and asking for their prayers, thinking of other people you know, and regarding familial connections would have to go as well then. They are, as best as I understand as a lay convert, the phenomenological substance that is icon veneration - regarding a living (God is not God of the dead, but living, re:patriarchs), brotherly/sisterly, grounded from material on up point of focus, vital testament of the work and triumph of God (from glory unto glory) in another believer’s life such that they are role models that are corporately recognized. A priest, Fr Stephen De Young, said on his Bible study podcast (Whole Counsel) recently that it’s good to regard that they saints we know are far dwarfed by the saints we do not (corporately) know. So saints and icons have everything to do with the triumph of God in the life of a believer and our vital, ongoing relationship with them as with each other. Especially when in our modern context, role models that live out the faith are hard to come by in many contexts… (edit: worth mentioning that scripture records St James encouraging his readers that the prayers of a righteous person avail much, so find righteous people that will pray for you).

[@rsissel1]

@@flowbrandz316 I think you forgot to add "on" at the end of your sentence 😉

[@issaavedra]

Such an ironic comment regarding the topic at hand. There is no Liturgy without icons.

[@johnnyd2383]

We have dealt with the Iconoclastic heretics long time ago. It is our way or highway. Your skin, your choice.

[@CherryDreamer96]

Every Western convert I have met has been fine with veneration of Icons. I can't see that changing

[@annabanana2623]

Converted from Catholicism with no issues. I always had issues with the pope's authority and Francis was the perfect person that gave me that push.

[@StanleyPinchak]

Too bad you didn't take our Lord's command in Matthew 23:1-3 into account before jumping ship.

[@ryanvanhoy8004]

@@StanleyPinchak the confession of the faith was the rock, not the man who confesses.

[@StanleyPinchak]

@@ryanvanhoy8004 Reread Matthew 23:1-3 it has nothing to do with confessions of faith and everything to do with your obedience to divinely appointed authority.

[@annabanana2623]

@StanleyPinchak I heard that one before. The Pope's authority is not beyond reproach. Many evil and heretical pipes throughout history, including your daddy Francis. Just a another misinterpretation to fit your flawed dogma.

[@ryanvanhoy8004]

@@StanleyPinchak correct. Yeah I confused Matt.23 with Matt.16.

[@pg618]

It is only prayer and repentance that can change the orientation of a convert to Orthodoxy. I tried logic but it didn't work. Friends of mine, good-hearted wanted to make eight tones American style because we are Americans and the Russians did it so we can do it too. I said let's do it just like the Russians they imported everything from Greece for centuries and became Greek in many ways and died into the tradition and then eight tones resonated from there being in harmony with the life of the church not from their brains and that's much better than hacking out new eight tones on your Macintosh computer. Wasn't that clever of me? I thought it was great but It went over like a lead balloon, It meant nothing to those who were hearing it and it took 10 more years before they finally enter the total life of the church without presumption.