How spoilers RUINED a DC Comics event! | Armageddon 2001

Who is MONARCH?! In the far flung year of 2001, the Justice League is betrayed by one of their own! Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and even Booster Gold are destroyed, and the villainous MONARCH takes over the world! Thrill as new hero Waverider gropes the entire DC Universe to discover the truth! A truth which even DC Comics Editorial can't solve! Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #dccomics
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[@thedukeofchutney468]

Sal: “So, we once did Bloodlines” Ben: “Ok, no.” TBH I’m with Ben 😂

[@thedukeofchutney468]

@@maplebob23 I wouldn’t. Bloodlines isn’t really something that’s worth remembering.

[@fragile4408]

I think the plot hole that bugs me the most is that wave rider pulled his child self out from the rubble in 1991 when that's not supposed to happen till 2001. He shouldn't even be born yet! What in the X-Men Movie time travel!?!

[@MrCeratix]

Hawk has super-aggression and Dove is very calming and passive- and so together, they are.... *Co-Dependent!*

[@dlvnmedia]

This is exactly what I needed. Lying up in a hospital room with a burst appendix that nearly killed me I could I use a little levity right now - esp with the original The Boys of Sal Ethan and Ben.

[@comicpop]

Wishing you a speedy recover, Dylan!

[@tatersalad76]

Here's hoping for your speedy recovery!

[@calijuggalo3633]

Happy healing brother relax and try to muscle through the hospital food

[@Justice4Skye]

Get better, friend.

[@Grievousish]

Hope you recover quickly man

[@TheRealZubes]

39:52 One time Sal and I were talking, I was saying something about a mundane thing. He went to respond, held up his phone with that image of The Thing and said "here's The Thing."

[@Martin_TheCollector]

LOL

[@Ohmargod]

Now my head canon is, that Sal always carries an image of The Thing with him for this visual gag.

[@gtarrant2000]

Any other married man instantly pictured and related to the flat stare and silent "really?" that Tiff probably gave Sal in response to a dad joke?

[@C4rea]

I hope this becomes a regular gag in future videos. Once a video, at some random point, would make it expected, but also something to look forward to, without overdoing the humor of it.

[@keithgehman3945]

This is legit more funny than it should be

[@ryan.craig816]

DC doing Armageddon 2001 at the same time as War of the Gods.. then Countdown takes place at the same time as Amazons Attack.. I'm starting to see a pattern here lol

[@undead923]

Universal Threat + WW Event = both are infamously bad

[@caliph95]

​@@undead923Both also have Monarch

[@jclombardi8471]

I love that even after Armageddon 2001 was spoiled, DC STILL tried to make Monarch work in the main continuity. They seemed to have stopped trying now (thankfully).

[@N94able]

It was 4 crisis' ago. Hes long gone

[@jclombardi8471]

@@N94able And he won't be missed.

[@topnotch97]

not even Zero Hour? lol 😂

[@Deception975]

@@N94able Well, Monarch shows up again later. Under more interesting circumstances. In my opinion, anyway. edit: to clarify I'm not talking about 2006 issues they mentioned in the video. It's after that. So, just to make this silly comment, again again, even more later, lol.

[@foolwriter]

Yes! When I was in middle school, going through a rough time, my dad remembered how much I liked superhero comics, and picked this up for me. That turned into a weekly comic store visit together and a hobby that's lasted me 30 years. I've read many comics published before and after, and no matter how cheesy this may have been, it'll always hold a special place in my heart.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Your dad sounds awesome.

[@foolwriter]

And if y'all really, wanna go down a rabbit hole of terrible '90s DC, read the Total Chaos storyline that came out of the Titans annual... This will look like Shakespeare compared to that.

[@foolwriter]

Another quasi-tie-in worth checking out is Superman: Time and Time Again, which was a Dan Jurgens yarn that had Superman bouncing back and forth in time and introduced The Linear Men, a concept Jurgens folded Waverider into after the A:2001 event wrapped up. It's good fun with Superman making friends with dinosaurs, becoming a circus strongman, and being part of the moon getting detonated in the Legion of Super-heroes timeline (which was a major event for that series).

[@KamiFLCL]

"So...here's the Thing." 39:52 absolutely killed me for a good 5 minutes. Thank you Sal. I really needed that kind of laugh today.

[@vidalruiziii1245]

Damnit I can't believe I missed that 😂😂😂

[@daelen.cclark]

The Thing was Monarch ALL ALONG!

[@dna6]

Al Ewing makes this exact joke in Immortal Hulk and it's incredible

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

Add "Hank Hall wanted to shtup his daughter" to the *"List of Things Comic Fans Are Willing to Forget Before Forgetting Hank Pym Hit His Wife"*

[@captainvimes6079]

Didnt Sabertooth eat somebody right before Axis? (Edit: not sasquatch. Unless they did too)

[@TupocalypseShakur]

@@captainvimes6079 I'm pretty sure the great beast has eaten someone

[@dylansmith5206]

Damn It Wasp!! You weren't supposed to marry Pym!!

[@chrisdaily2077]

Ultimate Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch

[@Mike_Dubo]

Where would a certain plot point from Avengers #200 fall on that list?

[@MrZsasz25]

Since you keep talking about Lex Luthor II -> why not do the story about how Luthor fakes his death and comes back as his own "son" (in a cloned body with majestic hair). It's even collected in a nifty paperback collection titled "Superman. They saved Luthor's Brain". Pretty sure you would have a blast doing that fun and insane story.

[@pbjoey703]

I would absolutely love for this to be an episode

[@Psyrus1]

I'm surprised you guys didn't touch on the hilarious irony that a book, teaching readers about how trying to find out about the future can influence it's outcome, had it's outcome influenced by readers trying to find out about the future of the book.

[@vidalruiziii1245]

The cw is doing Armageddon right now as their crossover event also lol

[@chilliciouspatrioticmeatlover]

I just wonder how that is going so far. Does it suck so far??

[@vidalruiziii1245]

@@chilliciouspatrioticmeatlover I honestly dropped off the cw after crisis which besides all the criticism i loved .....but from what I hear it's doing well but that's just an objective point of view

[@cubencis]

No way...

[@DazzlingMrScratch]

@@chilliciouspatrioticmeatlover It’s honestly been suprisingly good so far

[@gregsanders61]

It's honestly the best Flash has been in the past few years.

[@FacelessPorcelain]

If they wanted to preserve the reveal after the spoilers, what they SHOULD have done was make it so Captain Atom is still the Monarch Waverider went back in time to stop, and with the knowledge of how Monarch came to be and all that and Captain Atom currently being a good guy they can take steps to prevent that from happening, BUT one of the other heroes Waverider showed the future to, because they are convinced something horrible is going to happen to them or their loved ones now, becomes a different Monarch NOW, in 1991, basically giving a surprise second reveal of a second Monarch who takes cues from the Captain Atom Monarch in their plot. Basically that whole "fulfilling the prophecy by trying not to" cliche.

[@Mechazaurus]

You know, I legitimately really like that.

[@NXS09848]

Ben has convinced me that it was Nickleback that saved Wave Rider as a kid and inspired him to be hero and stop the Armageddon.

[@d_i_m_2269]

The Batman annual tie-in to this event was my first ever single issue and is what got me into reading comics! I got it in a back issues bin for like a quarter a few years back. I read the thing so many times that it fell apart and I had to put staples in it, shockingly I still have it to this day!

[@d_i_m_2269]

@@CrisisComics I think it's the one where he fights joker. It's numbered 15 and in it I remember that Batman is in prison facing serious time for some reason and Robin breaks him out with Anarchy's help impersonating him.

[@ElitistNerd]

Wow that is crazy :) Same for me, the issue with Anarchy playing Batman, Actually sold it for $10 to a friend of mine, because to our 9 year old brains "The Last Batman Story" was, well the last Batman story

[@undead923]

It had an AMAZING cover

[@d_i_m_2269]

@@undead923 definitely! It’s so cool!

[@undead923]

@@d_i_m_2269 it gives me some Alex Ross/ Jae Lee/ Bill Sienkiewicz vibes

[@mad0813]

No one is going to talk about the fact that Max Rider was some how a child in both 2001 and 1991?

[@nohomers100]

Haha that’s true

[@superluigiac]

"Ah, c'mon, you're Monarch!" That was the best part 😂

[@ctl6985]

Also they made a hero with no powers into an all powerful villain and mess up his character while dismissing another.

[@calijuggalo3633]

"Knowledge is drugs" gotta love that line. Thank you ben

[@devilsadvocateproductions4978]

A forgotten DC event? How’s about “Superman: Our Worlds at War” featuring the MOST forgettable villain of all time: Imperiex! Great episode as always. Obligatory please do No Mans Land and 52 🤘

[@Mike_Dubo]

Is he the most forgettable? He was the main villain for most of Legion of Superheroes season 2.

[@melasnexperience]

I’ll admit that I like the IDEA of the big company-wide crossovers taking place in the annuals, since it’s very frustrating to have your book’s ongoing stories shelved for a while for some big thing that you may or may not be interested in reading. The problem is that so many of the ones that DC did in this period were different flavors of Elseworlds and just weren’t very good. Also, pretty sure that the company would be mad that putting the big stories in the annuals made it easier for us to skip.

[@Depthcharge2030]

After the Bloodlines video, I indulged in picking this event up as well as some of Bloodlines. Funnily enough, the Flash annual I got was signed by Mark Waid! Though I doubt he'd ever acknowledge that he wrote it let alone took part in this event.

[@SpiralSine6]

Holy shit, Lex Luthor II starts here? One of the greatest recurring jokes on this channel and we finally see the origins

[@radiumtheatre]

"Or because they're an insane completionist & they need it because it is in the library". Can't imagine being somebody like that ...

[@cwash7708]

I just saw the thumbnail and just started to cackling.

[@davidproulx5666]

You guys should do the Superman story "Time and Time Again" I remember loving it as a kid

[@pbjoey703]

Something about wave rider hating his family is so funny to me.

[@crims0nlight521]

Forgotten DC events that you guys haven’t covered yet would be; Our Worlds at War, War of the Gods, Eclipso the Darkness Within, Genesis. Maybe even DC One Million but that one is pretty good imo.

[@radicalraddish6292]

The event that DC just can't forgive themselves for messing up so they keep trying to bring it back

[@SpiralSine6]

It’s the best time of the week: stop watching Back Issues because a *new* Back Issues just dropped

[@edwin831]

Ah yes, the book Sal said they’d never do… we’ve really attained UNLIMITED POWER

[@mr.goblin6039]

Oh boy. Years of Sal joking about Monarch, we finally get to the story… and it’s even worse than anything I could imagine. Holy cow, what a mess. lol Awesome as always, guys.

[@joshuavaughan3125]

Ok so how about one (or more) of the following DC events: Genesis, DC One Million, JLApe, Our Worlds at War, and/or Joker Last Laugh.

[@Brainiac1138]

Getting Ethan's Star Wars and Quantum Leap references. Nice.

[@elliotwiley3470]

This was such a good episode. Nothing beats learning about comic book history while crying laughing. Also, now I want to see Tom King write a Waverider book.

[@ctl6985]

The only reason I knew who Monarch was is because of the Zero Hour episode they did where Sal mentioned how they fucked this up. That was years ago for them so I figured they didn't remember it lol

[@TheGreatDevlin]

Sal has been waiting to do this episode for like seven years... Maybe he's Monarch

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Sal: That is the first appearance… Of Australian Lex Luthor >Lex Luthor II doing the Robert Pattinson awkward pose

[@JPVersus_]

I was just about to check the channel for new stuff. Hell yeah! *Sees Armageddon Oh no...

[@KenByrneNL]

I keep forgetting about this event …. It’s like the timeline erased my memory of it

[@WhelmedButReady]

Ben's "Hero" cover was so outta nowhere and yet perfectly appropriate given that the hypest Spider-Man move ever is less than 2 weeks away

[@TevyaSmolka]

I just realized something this whole mystery of who’s monarch reminds me of the terrible recent mystery of who was leviathan, so i wonder did bendis borrow a lot of elements from Armageddon 2001 because if that’s the case that could explain why that event was so bad and garbage.

[@gabpintov]

The JLI Annual that ties-in into Armageddon 2001 is fucking hilarious. You all should read it (Martian Manhunter future is the most WTF moment ever on DC Comics history)

[@vitanpatel2061]

Sal promised, Sal delivers!

[@N94able]

It dawned on me that Monarch and Captain Atom fight so they could reuse panels from before they changed the ending. To save money

[@jmvel.]

Dear Santa, all I want for Christmas is the Back Issues episode on 52

[@justinhenderson36]

I'm not the only one thinking of Venture Bros when they keep saying The Monarch, right?

[@curativewriter5518]

Love how in your zero hour video you already mentioned this, but it seems you waiting long enough that Ethan and Ben already forgot.

[@captainvimes6079]

14:00 "Knowledge is drugs" I'm defeated

[@antgto]

I was reading this and War of the Gods back when they were being published. Amusingly, the final issue of Captain Atom was a War of the Gods tie-in, and also the last chapter of an unrelated Captain Atom story arc. And the final blurb was something like "wanna see what happens to Captain Atom next? Then go read Armageddon 2001 #2." Damn it.

[@DCPatrol]

40 minutes in and this is already my favourite episode. I know I'll be rewatching this one soon.

[@Anynom]

Also interesting how the first Superman tale of him going dark, take over the world and basically a reverse "Dark Knight Returns" battle with Batman preceded Injustice Gods Among Us by so long.

[@flywheelshyster]

sick today this just made my day!

[@Dusty_B]

Road Warrior Hawk seems to be on the back of a lot of those issues. A hawk clue was there all along....

[@rzeitouneh]

The 1990s was actually a…REALLY good decade for DC. That was the decade of Knightfall, The Death of Superman, and the start of the DCAU.

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

So the start of a cartoon that made their comics look inept and the publishing two stories only memorable for their shock value, and what massive lies they turned out to be? Yeah, great.

[@stephen8805]

@@NoBody-lj5xh In the 90s we got Knightfall, Tim Drake’s solo series, Nightwing’s solo series, Young Justice, Grant Morrison’s JLA, Death and Return of Superman, the awesome Catwoman solo series, Flash by Mark Waid, Kyle Rayner’s debut. We got a lot of good stuff in the 90s. Sure a load of garbage as well but not as much trash as we currently get in 2022.

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

@@stephen8805 So a bunch of irrelevant series, a couple of which haven't mattered or even been in continuity for years at this point, and a shitty event way worse than anyone remembers it being. I repeat: "Yeah, great." BUT, since you brought up the topic, please, name a couple recent comics that are THAT much worse than the handful of decent examples of 90's stories you just brought up. Because I haven't read any book from the past decade that was in any way comparable to the shit that came out in the 90's you didn't wanna bring up in that pithy-ass reply of yours.

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

@@stephen8805 Sorry, my bad. Looking back, I don't know why I was such a dick about this.

[@FandomEntanglement]

I remember being in high school and had really only just started reading comics (the Superman books were pretty much the main thing). At the time, I had no idea how much everything connected together in the DCU, so the tagline for this event had me so intrigued: “One of this era’s greatest heroes will become its greatest villain.” I was like, “Holy shit!” This event single-handedly exposed me to the greater DC world. And I always loved time-travel stories. But I do remember being very confused after reading the conclusion because of that earlier Hawk & Dove Annual. I didn’t find out until the 2000s about that whole spoiler debacle which is when I realized, “Ohhhh, now it makes sense the way it ended.” Now that I have a much deeper 30-year-old well of knowledge of comic book lore (and having honed my own writing skills), I can truly look back on Armageddon 2001 and realize… boy did it suuuuck…

[@davidhowe751]

The annuals were great actually. The story was a mess. When you think about it, if it had to happen, it actually made more sense for Monarch to be Dove. Monarch didn’t have to be male in that armor, he was obsessed with creating a totalitarian orderly state (Dove was powered by the concept of Order, Hawk of Chaos who would never have the discipline to make a police state); Monarch was a genius (Dove’s power made her super smart, Hawk was dimwitted); even Monarch’s troops were called Peacekeepers (Dove was inspired by Peace, Hawk by War). Instead they shoved this great character into a fridge. But either way they’d still be trying to bang their daughter lol

[@IzzysIssues]

If Waverider's will is so strong that he can withstand the ravages of time travel how does he not pick up a GL ring along the way?

[@ItsTheFizz]

If your story is utterly dependant on shock reveals, then it's not a good story...

[@idongesitusen5764]

Spider-Girl on back issues! Also DC has a character they could use for elseworld stories if it wanted to- the Phantom stranger

[@jayeremy4456]

Sal that's a great idea to recollect the annual events in Omnis or thick trades. I want my JLApe book damnit!

[@davidreyna7410]

I say this wholeheartedly: The BEST episodes of Back Issues are those which give the most extensive history lessons as much as they do for the actual store itself.

[@gtarrant2000]

ComicPOP needs to do a voice over series. Their Emperor Palpatine, Baron Zemo, Waverider, etc voices are gold.

[@OreoBrawl]

War of The Gods would be hilarious! And also maybe an episode about THE NAIL

[@Martin_TheCollector]

How have I not heard about this event before??!! Seems like DC and Marvel try to leave ultra dumb stories buried in the past, thankfully Sal and other experts work hard to prevent that. Bless their hearts.

[@edwin831]

This just came in my head. Does anybody remember or know what episode of backissues it is where Sal is explaining that the book they’re talking about is revered and loved and he says “and I’m not gonna be like ‘and here’s why they’re all wrong’” cause when he says that it cracks me up every time and I can’t remember what video it is and it’s killing me. Thank you to anyone who’s got the memory to be like “I got it, it’s this episode”

[@vitanpatel2061]

OMG!!! THIS ONE IS GODAWFUL! ITS GONNA BE S GREAT BACK ISSUES!!!!

[@RyenFreaky]

@43:03 Sal accidentally refers to Monarch as Hawkeye. LoL

[@DjDragonblade]

Sadly, I actually remember that, & I remember one of the Titans saying, "It really was one of us!" or something like that...

[@RabbiJoeInJerusalem]

Interestingly, there were no crossover events in 1990. And that's the dividing line between the decent ones (Crisis, Legends, Millennium, Invasion) and the crappy ones where they monopolized all the annuals (Armageddon 2001, Bloodlines, Eclipso).

[@cubencis]

Monarch is . . . captain Atom in my head cannon

[@Anynom]

They did an issue of Justice Leauge Europe, set after the Armageddon ending with the opening with a character imagining Atom attacking her in a nightmare and others drawn, clearly to talk of his fall to darkness. So clear that it was to set him up as the baddie and would have been a great turn to boost the character up. Just amazing how even before the Internet, DC was so knee-jerk to it being ruined they changed everything.

[@ystin]

the hilarious thing was that issue of jle was part of a 15 part crossover with jla called breakdowns which was the end of that era of that version of the justice league. so yes there were three events going on at the same time at dc breakdowns, war of the gods and armageddon 2001

[@bluelanternof2814]

I'd love to see you do an episode on DC One Million. I read the whole thing recently and it actually wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

[@noahnewson2392]

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE FOR FOREVER BRUH.

[@Allean_Adkins]

Lol I got my brother the first appearance of Normie Osborn, figure it's about the same as first Australian Luther lol

[@izzythefizzy4]

I don't know why but this has very old school back issues feel, like way back in the early days. Very cool!

[@DondarfSnowbonk]

The only way the swerve at the end makes any sense is if you assume that Monarch actually *was* Captain Atom in Waverider's original timeline, and his and Monarch's interference in both the alternate timelines and 1991 actively changed it so that it was Hank instead, which invalidates the timeline with Unity. With that in mind, Monarch's "yes, I remember this happening, I remember being you!" thing is his memory being rewritten as he becomes Hank instead of Atom.

[@nigelflood7074]

I would love to see Comic Pop gang to review Underworld Unleashed and or Genesis

[@TheRealZubes]

I can help you with one! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGiTdIlogtqIhtk

[@DoomMomDot]

I'm probably in a minority, but I liked Armageddon 2001. The tie-ins were a fun look at possible futures for the heroes, and I'm a sucker for those kinds of stories

[@williamfreemon3878]

The Superman Tie ins were all pretty damn solid. And the JL Europe one was legit bwahaha funny with waverider being confused af peeping in to all the leaguers weird ass futures which take place in the past.

[@PHEONIX_720]

I totally forgot about this event cause when the flash crossover on cw started i remembered that the word Armageddon sounded so familiar.

[@Jaimethepanda]

So they were “subverting expectations” as far back as ‘91?

[@DanV900]

DC pulled a WWE with Monarch where it was leaked that the person attacking Jeff Hardy was a returning Christian in 2009. Then it was changed to Jeff’s brother, Matt. Just so dumb.

[@flywheelshyster]

This makes an excellent double feature with Zero Hour. Or even better, the triple threat: Bloodlines, Armageddon 2001, Zero Hour!

[@andrewwestfall65]

Wait, Max Ryder was 6 when he was saved by the hero 2001. So Max would be -4 in 91

[@sethh.5601]

Get the guys to 100K!

[@tmaster_109]

Me: It's been a while since I'd seen back issues, lets see what new story they are going to talk about today Sal: " so we once did bloodlines" Me: huh, bloodlines, must have missed an episode Ben: ( Stands up and leaves): "NO!!!" Me: What the hell happened and what did I get myself into?!?!

[@captaincomics3626]

Yesssss we're getting some Armageddon in here!!🤘🤘

[@Cubelarooso]

That idea of having a super villain be Monarch actually would have been neat. Sure, it's not the "promise" of one of the good guys going bad, but it's not like they would have made that interesting anyway, and this way you could actually get a meaningful - yet subtle - clue from one of the What Ifs. Perhaps even some pathos, as preventing the Monarch requires keeping the villain from becoming good (perhaps even beloved).

[@elijahprester7167]

The voice crack from Sal was hilarious.

[@stewardships]

That moment at 44:05 when the guys become that VCR gag from Spaceballs. "Now it's happening Now!" "Yeah, Now it's Now Now" This is the content I come for.

[@creed8712]

- bomb that destroys organic matter - the metal men come.

[@ericdefrancesco7607]

The picture in the back is driving me crazy,3 fingers... what the hell is going on!

[@nathanielgoldfarb6478]

I don't know if I like really long episodes on really good books or shorter episodes on insane books.

[@startrekfanman]

I am going to (15:52 into the video) guess that monarch is aged Matthew rider

[@blackzaxh384]

Hey kids! You know what's the coolest most addictive drug of all? It's called knowledge, and you can find it at your local library!

[@dremity9494]

I loved the bloodlines episode tho!!

[@just4commentsable]

Remember guys, Knowledge is drugs!

[@TevyaSmolka]

Ooh Armageddon 2001 awesome this should be fun.

[@sarahferris7892]

Excellent video 👍