How the league caught up to the Warriors | Enhanced podcast

In addition to age and injury, there's another factor working against the Warriors in 2023. In this enhanced segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, Cody and Ben discuss why the explosion in league offensive tactics and strategy has made it harder for the Warriors to win.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Apologies! Technology failed at 58 seconds -- the audio should say "the better you're going to be offensively, and if Golden State..."

[@cstc1235]

hey buddy imma rape ur mom if u keep downplayin the dubs

[@markopizurica]

failed at physics in that thumbnail also, btw. Light year is a unit of length. Sport fans being uneducated is not a stereotype I'd perpetuate

[@siphillis]

Literally unwatchable.

[@maxrodriguez889]

@@markopizurica I think he meant “light years past”

[@markopizurica]

@@maxrodriguez889 that makes sense. so they fail at orthography then lol

[@jbe5911]

It's crazy how Kerr implemented this system back in 2014-15 and it took 8-9 years to catch up

[@mchav7718]

And a generational scorer to join a 73-9 team . Don’t undermine that

[@dpistons149]

Would have been even faster but KD joined the team

[@hardbap]

In a copy cat league the other teams just didn't have the athletes that this system requires. Took time to draft, develop, etc.

[@carlogaytan7010]

​​@@mchav7718 nope, teams were playing the same until recently in 2022-2023, this is when we see the rest of the league start to perfect motion offense and cause a scoring Boom in the NBA. Look at points per game of teams as well as pace of game from 2016 until now.

[@jbe5911]

@@mchav7718 I meant in terms of motion offense, not overall stats

[@coledorillo6685]

Put some respect on Kerr as one of the best coaches of all time. We view the golden state core as generational talents but no one thought much of them when they first entered the league. Kerr had a vision and implemented his system to perfection, bringing out the best of the players.

[@ELTAxGAMERS]

Stop giving Kerr the credit Mark Jackson deserves.

[@kekwallace4774]

@@ELTAxGAMERS mark jackson's warrior offense was not insanely good

[@DrummerAndPker]

@@ELTAxGAMERS you mean the extremely ISO and spread PnR-heavy offense with the traditional 2 bigs Mark Jackson offense? the one that is completely different from what Kerr implemented and has won them championships? Alot of Mark Jackson's offense when Steph was on the bench and Klay wasn't yet the go-to option was Jarrett Jack and DLee/Carl Landry PnR and if that didn't work, let Jack cook ISO lmao.

[@TheGeorgeD13]

@@DrummerAndPker I like to remind folks that Mark Jackson thought that Klay needed to do 5-7 Post-Up Isos to "establish his presence" Mark Jackson taught them defensive discipline, yes, but offensively, he was an idiot and they would have NEVER won a championship with idiotic offenses.

[@charleskerby9602]

Thank you

[@landlocked_lifts332]

Elevator screens, split cuts, defensive free safeties, an ultimate green light for your shooters, using your screener as a pressure-release valve through big man passing, etc..

[@DETONATEDx]

Man I remember when the warriors used those elevator screens like crazy

[@cyberft]

@@DETONATEDx they also had that warriors weave at the top of the court. Miss some of those old sets.

[@darrengordon-hill]

YAWN

[@mcfuckinanotheraccount808]

Elevator was Mark Jackson's work. Kerr never used elevator screens

[@judyclarkson5887]

@@darrengordon-hill YAWN

[@danielbk128]

I think the defence has been the difference this year, last season they were number 2 per 100 and in this one they are 13

[@GlorbarWorldDestroyer]

Avid warriors fan here who watches every game. I’ll say that I agree that the defense isn’t as good as it was last year in the sense that some games it feels that everyone isn’t trying that hard on the defensive end. But I think it’s also that teams are getting harder and harder to defend (that last okc game as a crazy example). There have been many games where they’re playing great defense but it doesn’t matter because the competition is getting rougher and the players aren’t as hungry. Still rooting for them tho because it would be truly spectacular to see them win over the top seeds in both conferences with their current line up.

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Absolutely -- we discuss how these offensive changes impact the defense as well later in the episode.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

@@ThinkingBasketballAlso, most of their main stars are all nearly the same age. When they were younger that was great-They all improved at roughly the same pace. Now they’re all dealing into basketball middle-age at the same time. LeBron kinda made us forget that most ballers fall off a cliff pretty quickly when they approach their mid-30s.

[@jamarreid1082]

​@@grahamstrouse1165 yea but which one appears to be falling? Not Steph or klay.

[@cursin]

@@GlorbarWorldDestroyer Plus the fact that the refs are inconsistent and make very bad calls to the point where we cant play some type of physical deffense so its hard to defend teams

[@lagunasjrpedro]

Really crazy bc I felt like the Warriors from 2016-2019 had the league in a chokehold. 3 years from then and it’s somewhat different. I also feel like this video didn’t include KD as much. It’s definitely difficult to guard cuts and motion when you’re leaving 3 pt shooters open

[@dusk6159]

''Light years passed'' is a perfect and hitting title in fact lol

[@savel-oe3lx]

It's cuz KD came thru like a breeze off da Lake Merritt n den cut all smooth except fa him hurting his leg cuz we was bouts ta 3peat

[@skddgsshootawahmyn8mewhtha865]

I don't understand how opinions like this can exist when they just got the chip less than a year ago... LOL

[@ZXbolterZX]

@@skddgsshootawahmyn8mewhtha865 right?? They decimated the WCF and Beat the #1 regular season team with the best duo 4-2. People act like the warriors now are lesser when in fact the warriors are better than ever.

[@michaelahurt]

​@@ZXbolterZX because they are lesser. Did you watch them in 2016? At the beginning of 16-17? We don't even need to talk about KD. I love last year's team but it was an imitation of the Strength in Numbers team. And anyway all the metrics say they are worse and worse relative to the league. That's what the entire discussion is about. But you don't even need the metrics. They won *73* games. Seven-three. They went 67-73-67. Last was 53.

[@Schraiber]

I think that a big issue with the Warriors this year is just absolutely awful roster construction. Almost no size (Loon is only 6'9''!) and no size that can shoot. Now, some of this is on Kerr's game plan that just doesn't value big shooters (which is a problem) but also the FO just didn't give him anything to work with. Compare to last year when Beli and Otto provided size + shooting. They had issues but in the right lineups really helped open up the offense

[@br3sh]

Yup. Same thing i just said to somebody else. They ate missing that Otto/Beli role BADLY. Literally having stretch 4 who could shoot but also defend and rebound a bit would unlock so much for them. Keer is trying to make Lamb that guy, prob the closest to it but you can still see the gaping hole. Also having somebody with legit size who fits their system and can vertically spaced the floor could completely change the dynamic of their offense but instead they lean more and more into small ball, on purpose.

[@NelsonJLow]

As a Warriors fan ~ part of this issue is also the cap space - team is waaaay over the cap and luxury tax. The two-timeline plan was kinda cute too but man hasn't panned out (other than Jonathan Kuminga).

[@PrinceSamurai45]

Jamychal Green can actually supply some shooting along with his size. The problem is he has been injured a good bit this year. When he is on the court I like what I see from him.

[@thesnipingspider3852]

@@br3sh wasn’t that why they had Andrew Wiggins who they just traded?

[@cycleoflife565]

@@thesnipingspider3852 Wiggins wasn’t traded. He’s been out for personal reasons.

[@justinalley3399]

age is a factor too Draymond Green is 33 Klay thompson is also 33 and Steph Curry is 34

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Absolutely. Cody discussed this in the episode.

[@OKden2065]

Age mainly means more frequent injuries and less time with Curry, Green and Thompson on the court together. They are still great when they do play together, however

[@jeffreyvalentyn6815]

No matter what team you follow, everyone should agree that Kerr is a top 5 coach of all time

[@damelalana]

Draymond and Curry are a unit that executes with lotsa efficiency cuz there’s an evident mutual respect and understanding between the two’s powerful bond. They trust each other.

[@iPrank911]

The Spurs were doing it before the Warriors. It sucks that we never got to see a series between them both at full strength

[@jacobphillips1285]

Agreed. That 2014 Spurs team was so insane. Would love to see them vs peak GSW.

[@Joe-nu2sz]

As a warriors fan I think the Spurs had a legitimate chance of beating the dubs in 2017 before Zaza injured Kawhi’s ankle. Would be very different legacies for both teams if they took out the KD warriors at full strength

[@justcameron6805]

well steve kerr comes from the coach pop coaching tree so it makes a lot of sense

[@bwp2bruce]

Of course. Kerr used to play for Pops

[@ryanmosser4157]

@@Joe-nu2sz Lol "as a dubs fan" ya okay, they had a shot to take 1-2 games but not take out the dubs.

[@panaceiasuberes6464]

Nov 14 against the Kings: got outpaced and out-3ped. That was the change of the guard.

[@Yepitsmedude]

It’s so cool to see Thinking Basketball grow! You’ve helped me with my game a lot. Appreciate it!

[@christianmorgan5956]

I agree for this year. I think it caught up now because this Warriors team just shoots 50 3's a game and they don't attack the rim or shoot mid-range. They're offensive philosophy is so predictable compared to the prior years. There are 5 scoring areas in basketball. Prior years they would kill you 3's(obviously) mid-range, free-throws, layups and dunks (because of all the backdoor cuts), and they would post. Now they just shoots 3s, layups, and the post; so when you take away the 3 it's pretty much a wrap because they don't shoot enough mid-range, they don't put you in the bonus which leads to two options. Not to mention they take a lot of dumb 3's especially Jordan Poole he tries so hard to draw fouls on so many jumpshots that are out of control and when he doesn't get the calls he gets a technical and doesn't play D. And speaking of defense they can't guard a parked car with an uzi. Other than Draymond, Donte, Steph or JK want to play any defense and they don't rebound. Now obviously Wiggins and Gary Payton haven't been there and their defense will be better with them. To any of your real basketball fans out there this team is giving my 2014-15 San Antonio Spurs vibes with them being championship hangover all season. And I love your channel buddy!

[@Fromthelogo702]

Our guys are all in their mid 30’s now, it was inevitable

[@walidklm]

4:39 ain't no way Barnes caught strays like that 💀💀

[@inactivechristine]

nah that’s deadass what i’m saying 😭😭 my boy ben did harrison mad dirty lmfaoooo

[@tsvetozarivanov-ed4ro]

That seems to be more of a case of their team being crap around them compared to some previous seasons. That season where they got kicked out of the playoffs through the play in…awful role players really.

[@shorewall]

Yeah, it doesn't matter how elite your stars are, if you don't have the supporting cast around them.

[@cyberft]

Klay Thompson was out that year and the year before. Since Kerr has coached they have gone to the finals every year when healthy.

[@z4r4thus]

@@cyberft And Steph was out much of 2020.

[@judyclarkson5887]

​@@z4r4thus Fans always have amnesia about Curry only playing 5 gms total on that season.

[@cyberft]

@@judyclarkson5887 fortunately the organization doesn’t. You constantly hear Kerr and Myers saying “we had the worst record in the league.”

[@TheTEN24]

Definitely feels that way now where a lot of offense around the league has caught up or run similar concepts

[@rams3737]

I think when they're healthy, they still have one of the best offenses in the nba, 2022 is the best example because when the entire team was healthy and had that chemistry they were clicking on all cylinders and won the championship. 2021 and this season is so similar, that there are so many injuries so many players missing time and new guys coming in and there's no chemistry at all, hope the FO retools the roster and they can run it back next year.

[@cyberft]

They were mediocre calendar year 2022 outside of the playoffs. They just don’t care until the stakes are high, and who could blame them.

[@myweirdsecondchannelwithap9070]

@@cyberftthat's not true. They started like 27-5 with the best record in the league, and closed the season off with a 5 game win streak without curry.

[@cyberft]

@@myweirdsecondchannelwithap9070 I said calendar year 2022, not the 21-22 season. In calendar year ‘22 prior to the playoffs their record was 26 - 22 , the same 4 games over .500 they were a few games ago this season. And before they closed the season out on a five game win streak they lost 7 of 8 games….so what did I say that wasn’t true?

[@rams3737]

@@cyberft and again health played a part towards the end of last season, draymond was out , and the core only got to play for like 12 minutes, in the playoffs when they were healthy , they were steam rolling everyone.

[@cyberft]

@@rams3737 I agree with you. They aren’t healthy this year either, but even when they were they were that same mediocre they were last season. I’m saying it doesn’t matter because they have yet to be beat in the playoffs.

[@AnimeGamer0]

The biggest issue with the Warriors right now as I see it is their Defense. Sometimes it's there (usually at home) - and sometimes it disappears (usually away). When they won the chip last year, it was on the back of having a Top 5 Defense. This year, they haven't had that for various reasons (like, say, punching a teammate and it getting spread in TMZ) including many of the principles that the Warriors themselves use on Offense being spread League-wide now, as mentioned in the video. If the Warriors show any Defensive consistency and keep teams to between 100-110 points, they give themselves the chance to go on a massive winning streak because they're so hard to stop offensively from getting to 110-125 points. So that would be the sign - if they show the ability to play D on the road the rest of the way and into the Playoffs, they could seriously make a run to defend their title. And if they can't, they could get bounced in the play-in games to a team like the Lakers.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

kerr and dantoni are the most revolutionary coaches i've ever seen.

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@jacobalarcon5171]

man I love this nerdy shit, keep up the great work guys!

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

This is how evolution of the game works. One team or player has success with something, others start copying it. Add in that the Warriors are older and slower, then you can see how they are probably a 50 win team at best if healthy.

[@hawkname1234]

Great analysis, as always.

[@jgray2718]

Other teams are still catching up, they haven't caught the Warriors yet. You can tell by watching games - the Warriors still move more than anyone else _(except maybe the Kings),_ they still lead the league in assists, Steph and Klay are still the premiere sniper duo of all time. But they're not as far ahead as they used to be. I like to imagine someone from the '90's who didn't see the evolution of basketball to now watching the 2015 - 2018 Warriors. And I should know, I grew up in the '90's. It's why I love the Warriors even though I'm a Laker fan for life - Steve Kerr and Steph Curry made basketball beautiful again _(with a hat tip to the Duncan/Popovich Spurs)._

[@stevenwhiters8928]

Warriors not defending their starters aren’t and they blame the bench. Majority of the teams still high PNR iso all game to say most teams use movement is crazy

[@shake6321]

7 years ago, When the Warriors use to go up by 14 pts, teams would just give up because 14 points was 7 stops and the w's would just keep scoring more because they were shooting 3's and your team was shooting 2's. thus, 14 points would become 20 or 30 points as teams gave up. its totally different now. Teams can get down by 20 or ever 30 and they know 1 hot quarter of defense plus 3's will get them back into the game. The GSW effect has been great on basketball. I am a bulls fan and cringe watching derozen and lavine play stagnant ISO ball / pick and roll. The bulls are stuck in the aughts. its nice to see team like the Kings play a similar style to GWS. passing, cutting, motion, 3 point shots, back door plays are very fun to watch

[@christopherprim1973]

You confirm what I've noticed watching highlights and scores for a couple years. Add the extra defense the Dubs have to play because of it, and you have more league parity. Not to mention the pro-offense officiating in place.

[@marcjohnson4677]

Love the low key shot at Harrison Barnes. Sure people bring up the suspension and sometimes injuries in 2016 but they always seem to forget that Barnes was basically non existent and it was 4 on 5 out there

[@Terrybulll]

Random but you’re video game references are spot on. You a low key gamer lol

[@69baran69]

This is exactly what I was thinking about a few days ago!

[@bossg2817]

Kerr is new modern-age Pop in terms of producing protege. He gave way to the likes of Mike Brown to employ his tactics, more to come in the future.

[@gregorygray8899]

It's Greg Poppavich, Don Nelson, and Mike Dantoni scheme

[@landonr.536]

“Outside the finals” 😂😂 good save

[@dalitespeed9403]

Amazing Video !

[@nabilghafar9150]

imagine ray allen and reggie miller playing in this constant moving, switching, backdoor cutting, movement style of today's nba. they would be super crazy good.

[@Job.Well.Done_01]

Thanks!

[@terencewinters2154]

There are other factors like 1. reconfiguration of talents , 2. More of the type of talent that excels in that type of passing cutting iteration.

[@STORM3SHADOW]

I have been a Warriors fan since the early 90s and admittedly have been very spoiled the past 8+ years watching the success of this dynasty. I can also admit that the league has caught up, as teams have figured them out along with the aging process of their stars. Steph and Klay are still playing at a very high level. We saw that last season with their incredible 4th title run. But the margin for error has shrunk big time. And their road record this year is a huge concern given this is a battle tested core who should've shaken off their championship hangover way back in December. I am leaning towards them not re-signing Draymond and not extending Klay, so this might be the last hurrah for this trio. No matter what happens, its been an absolutely phenomenal run! After decades of futility, the fact we have 4 chips is more than I ever imagined. I can die happy I witnessed this run of greatness. I'm hoping the front office can reload and put some impact players around Steph going forward and continue the development of these younger guys to minimize their inconsistencies. We know Lacob will open his wallet to win by all means necessary, so I am optimistic about the future. Go Dubs!!!

[@11pupona]

what I always have said, efficiency is way up this last years, everybody needs to shoot well....

[@Fresh0710]

Yes and no, the Warriors still have the best starting lineup net rating. It’s the defense on the road that’s an issue

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Those games still count!

[@myweirdsecondchannelwithap9070]

it's so bizarre how a veteran team with a dynasty's worth of experience can't get their shit together on the road

[@darrengordon-hill]

​@My Weird Second Channel With A Pretty Long Name maybe because they don't care about the season?? They won 73... but not the ring. Added KD - didn't win 75 games. Don't think they were a top seed last year. I

[@haydenalejandrino7819]

agreed. but also, teams arent afraid of the warriors anymore. a lot of opposing teams in many games this season can be down by 20 that fight back and not be fazed.

[@frankenviews4069]

What set the GSW in the beginning was The Splash Brothers. Over the course of their dynasty run the rest of the NBA practiced, got better at 3 point shooting and hired 3 point shooters of their own to negate the effects of the Splash Brothers. The Warriors in return took advantage of the sudden surge of available 3 point shooters and hired a couple of 3 point shooters of their own, turning Splash Brothers into a Splash Family.

[@jakebishop7822]

I would just like to note that for the graph at 3:20, all 4 outliers in 2023 are on the Denver Nuggets

[@anthonynorman7545]

Let's go Joker!

[@faithcafe563]

I'm more of an eye-test person, and not that great into advanced stats - but honestly, I don't think the comparison of solely Steph and Dray's net ratings from prior years to this year is the end-all-be-all indication of the team's current shortcomings. I think a comparison of each 5 man unit on the court would probably show a fairer trend for this year. The bigger issue at hand is what are the line-ups Steph and Dray are playing with for example. As a Warriors fan its sad to say, but some of our team's players have been extremely inconsistent in their play and decisions (especially Poole, and then JMG, our two-way guys). Steph and Dray's lower net rating could be indicative of -something-, but I see it more so as an issue with whatever line-up our team puts out there, and not indicative of a regression in Steph and Dray's play together. Those two are still a beast in the PnR from what I've seen. I still agree with the league catching up to the Warriors playstyle though.

[@jaybee946]

From your thumbnail, light years can't "pass" as it's a measurement of distance, not time. Sorry, love the channel :)

[@shorewall]

It's a quote from the owner of the Warriors, a few years ago. :D

[@jerodrottinghaus8839]

Please analyze the Jrue Holiday-Steph Curry Defense vs Offense battle from tonight’s game

[@spaul6368]

The Warriors are very similar to the 1980’s SF 49ers. Both teams were years ahead of the competition with innovative offensive schemes and great players in their prime. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and over time other NFL teams copied the Bill Walsh West Coast offense in the same way other NBA teams have copied the Warriors motion offense. The Warriors have enjoyed a great run but without interior defense and size, I think it will be very difficult for the Warriors to win another championship.

[@patsayjack402]

Only took about a decade and the Warriors STILL might win it all again.

[@cjzizzari2405]

As a longtime Warriors fan I totally agree with this take but I think the real question now is can these teams that just started executing these sets and actions do it in a playoff environment with all the extra clutching and grabbing and hand checking better than the Warriors who’ve been doing it for a decade almost. Like I know that Huerter can come off a pin down naked and make the Klay 3. But can he do it with guys ripping at his arms and dying to get over the screens.

[@richardhodges5409]

Crazy how such a basic concept is groundbreaking in the NBA. Middle & Highschool teams have run split actions for decades

[@leonardonoguera5589]

I don't know why everyone says the Dubs started this trend, it was Pops and the Spurs... Kerr has the best shooting frontcourt ever but they didn't invent this

[@shorewall]

2014 Spurs was something else, for sure. I think the 2015 Warriors just did it with prime stars, instead of the old trio. They also benefitted from Kawhi getting injured and leaving the Spurs. They also benefitted from signing KD when Harden's Rockets and Lebron's Cavs almost bumped them off. I respect the Warriors, but to win, you need luck too.

[@Fbai69696]

Thing is they might have countermeasures but it's still different when a team with role players that can shoot three do the motion offense against Warrior's players with the same motion offense. Steph is a different motor.

[@dertyherryfilms6385]

Interesting take... which I also notice recently, that the offense has not evolved lately...Plus reminds me of how the pistons Ben Wallace era, kind of derailed this offensive direction of the league is heading in.

[@theSummarizer446]

What about the rule changes over this time that have favoured the offense.

[@nickellis5868]

This should be apart of ESPN

[@hamadalkaabi2160]

The only difference is golden state has been doing this with elite defense

[@Thatkid461]

Crazy

[@JimBrave-vi9ji]

Everyone has been copying the Warriors just not as good as the Warriors do it. That is why the warriors have 4 Championships and nearly 5 in just 7 years. What made the 90's great was that everyone tried to do something new and different than the Bulls they tried everything with the Bulls. This league today has tried nothing with the warriors basically handing them the Championship every year.

[@novaknicks13]

Meanwhile, Knicks have two iso heavy stars. Would like to know if you can create a deep dive about the Knicks play this season.

[@damienrichards9743]

It'll only be definitive if and when the warriors are no longer a threat to the basketball world and are just relegated as the team that nobody pays attention to for the most part, i.e. back to being irrelevant. When I saw them win for the first time with Curry and co., I didn't even know of the team, that's how much they weren't in the picture up until that moment in NBA history for me (personally speaking anyway. Didn't even know that Cali had a third basketball team aside from the Clippers and Lakers, both having LA before their names). When KD signed there and had battles of a lifetime with LeBron and the Cavs, it genuinely shook me that a team that I thought never existed was a threat. Impressive to say the least in my eyes. And I've been watching the NBA since winter of '08. Favorite is the first round series between Celtics and Bulls in '09. Several games with multiple OTs. Even though Bulls lost the series 3-4, it was great basketball all around. '16-'19 was just crazy insane. When Curry and Co. are dumped and the team are dumped back to irrelevance, then and only then this statement be true. Until that happens, win or lose doesn't matter. They are still dangerous. That and they have three titles in the 2010s and one in the 2020s soooo (I know they have another but it was decades ago).... Much love and respect.

[@behindthearcyt]

the warriors had run the league since 2015 and now they are on their way out which is crazy to say because when i really got into basketball the warriors were just starting their dominant run and thats all i have ever seen

[@yll9704]

Yes the GSW were the pioneer. But I think it's more of the 3pt shots efficiency and volume that thrive the league offense. We've seen heliocentric offense being really effecient when shooters can spread the court. (Lebron, Harden, Giannis, Luka, etc.) GSW screening action is a major piece. But there's still something else in this picture.

[@dkMansell96]

Only way to truly emulate the warriors offense is to set approximately 28 illegal screens a game lol

[@tobyncummins]

Warriors are there defending champs at the time this video was made though, so there is still some significant separation between the Warriors and the rest.

[@SteezyKyung]

I think Kobe said it best when he talked about using other sports movements like football (soccer) or hockey because of the way they collapse then make a bunch of space from quick cuts & passes.

[@Eidenhoek]

I've mentioned to my dad that Joker's passes into space are kinda like football (either sport). Similar concept; if the opponent's not there, that's a weakness. Somebody get there to exploit it.

[@stolensentience]

So much revisionist history in these comments. And so much generalizing in this video. “How the influx of the sixty best in the world players per year evenly distributed throughout the league caught up to 3 specific players after 15 years in a sport dominated by youth” I’m really on the edge of my seat now. And all this credit to Steve Kerr… holy shit I’m dead.

[@bytheriverinpeace2301]

One aspect that is missing from their offensive numbers is how much of it came in transition because of their great defense. Yes they had great offensive sets but what would often get them rolling is forcing turnovers or getting defensive rebounds then curry, klay and other shooters sprinting to the 3 point line. Missing or turning the ball over in just 2 or 3 consecutive possessions against the warriors could cost you an easy 9 points just like that. A tied game gets blown open, or the warriors cut into your 12 point lead. They forced opponents to play near perfection or else risk being blown out, or allow a comeback. And that was the warriors from 2015-2019, get out and run to get transition 3s, or run the half court offense so well, that almost every play someone could've had or did take an open shot. They made transition 3s a norm when before 2015, pulling up from 3 when you have open teammates around the hoop or someone cutting to the hoop was a big no no. 8 years later , transition 3s are often hunted by teams. 2013 a player on the fast break sprints to the 3 point line instead of the hoop youre asking what the hell is he thinking lol

[@rich25375]

Kerr is extremely underrated

[@dispater101]

While they're indeed lackluster this year, i also just cant fully count GSW out..i need to see them actually being out the playoffs first 😅

[@challiray]

I don't think League caught up. I just think that the coaches and the front office aren't on the same page. The front office gave up on the current core being title contenders, and tried too early to look towards the future. People think two timelines just started, but it started back when the warriors drafted Jordan Poole and Eric Paschall. Smiley, Kuminga, Moody, Wiseman, all part of a plan by the front office that went into play during the offseason after 2019. With KD gone, Klay, and then Steph out indefinitely, the focus shifted from winning more championships, to not having an extended playoff drought once the championship core was gone. Joe lacob has gone on record saying this. This shift in front office priorities infuriated not only the veteran players, but the coaching staff. Especially when the front office didn't shift courses after last year's chip. Cut to this season, and Steve starts benching the young guys to make a point. That point being, we are still in championship mode, and I'm only playing guys who, not CAN, but WILL help us win a championship. Which means all that learning on the job for the future core rigmarole, is out. And it ain't it my fault if you already paid em... Wouldn't be surprised at all if Steve Kerr went into the playoffs with an eight-man rotation, with consideration given to Andre Iguodala's health, or an Andrew Wiggins return.

[@co6672]

is kerr's motion offense inspired from d'antoni and popovich?

[@JimBrave-vi9ji]

He said it's Phil Jacksons offense

[@juju-vl7oj]

That's why it's hard and unfair to compare eras. The NBA evolves to adjust to defending the best teams and players so what sometimes a certain type of player will be more valuable depending what else is going on around the league.

[@tevinmaccaden]

Do the Celtics new offense next. Next big thing!

[@savel-oe3lx]

U know what dis reminder me of?? It's when we GSW Hoop was coming up vs Lakers n Kobe was aging. I felt bad when Kobe tore his achilles tryna chase Splash Bros. I hope it doesn't happen ta us dis year

[@wpn_as8389]

Question - 2023 on-court numbers for Green+Curry... is that affected by the Warriors having a stronger bench, now?

[@darryljones8195]

Steve Kerr implemented The San Antonio Spurs Offensive System

[@weksauce]

Jokic TS% 70.4!

[@judyclarkson5887]

Nobody cares if he's gonna lose in the first or second round again.

[@weksauce]

@@judyclarkson5887 Sure. But HE doesn't win/lose, his TEAM does. Basketball is a team sport. Winning and losing is a team outcome.

[@judyclarkson5887]

@@weksauce Winning should always be valued more than personal stats. Going hard for stats mean that players like AI, or Melo, or Dame can be valued more than the likes of Tim Duncan, or Bill Russel. My point is, those players (Jokic included) are already belong to the greats,, but if one wants to include themselves to the very top club of greatness, then they should simply drag themselves and their team to winning. Winning matters, and just like Chuck says, it always does and will always be used to measure and separate these players legacy.

[@weksauce]

@@judyclarkson5887 Yes. Jokic makes his team win a lot more games/championships than probably any other player -- he's at least top 5. If you put Melo on a team, even with a great like Jokic, it can't win. Michael Jordan and LeBron would be sunk with Melo. AI couldn't even win with Melo for 2-3 seasons. AI is good, but not great. Dame is quite possibly great. He, like Jokic, has never had a great team. Replace Steph with Dame, and I think you still get just as many championships. Replace any of GSW centers with Jokic, and you probably get MORE championships.

[@Grievous_]

As a Warriors fan it’s because everyone shoots 3’s yes ironically that’s because of us but we made the Nba play our game but they still couldn’t beat us… until now, and it’s embarrassing for us because we are allowing teams to beat us using our own philosophy which is ball movement, getting shooters open and firing away, screens and cutting, the Thunder just did that last night because they just executed those things better than us.

[@MillyBitchell]

You keep saying “us”. How long have you been a Warriors fan? Were you a fan of the Warriors before Curry joined forces with Kerr? Are you from San Fran or Oakland? Are you a player on the team? If no to all of those, stop saying us lol😂

[@VicThrasher]

@@MillyBitchell cope

[@Grievous_]

@@MillyBitchell Bruh calm down im saying that because im a fan of the Warriors, yall do the same with your teams lol

[@user-ql6cy3cg8r]

​@@MillyBitchell bro chill man

[@bastian5294]

It took 4 rings for the league to catch up 💀

[@Aaron-nm1ob]

@ThinkingBasketball, my question is: why hasn't ever team in the league embraced these strategies? I know my team, the bulls, is pretty stationary. Ive never seen them do a 45 cut. Why?

[@adishaked1897]

Imo shaq would still be a monster cause there's more space now and there would be more isolation situations for shaq so 70/100 filled goal for shaq no problem

[@BWalker9313]

Completely agree. Kenny smith said the NBA is a copycat league. When the pistons were winning teams wanted multiple guards. Houston copied and won 2 rings. Draymond was so successful as a ball moving “big” with shooters around him and now you see it all over. Jokic, Sengun, Sabonis, Draymond and a multitude of other bigs can move the ball and stretch the floor in a way that helps get shooters open. Sacramento and Denver have done it perfectly. I just don’t think teams had those bigs before. Now they do.

[@raphaelsanjuan596]

i'd say regardless if the league caught up or not, the Warriors still have the experience and the "chemistry" to still be above the league. They're still the reigning champs. Health is the problem haha and yes, I'm a celtics fan hahah

[@DavidTorres.24]

Was Durant in those warriors in 2018? I’m having a hard time thinking about it

[@Whacintosh]

Light years measure distance not time.

[@Raumance]

It's also about everyone realizing that regular season doesn't matter much so it's not worth defending hard.

[@ThinkingBasketball]

I think they are defending hard!

[@EdeDizon]

Other than Cleveland and Houston, the league punted 2 years Kevin Durant was on Golden State

[@dsmvfl363]

Idk. I am watching the warriors and still the cavs and Celtics can’t replicate it as well as the warriors can and they are a decent and great teams

[@charlesnelson9831]

But in a playoff series if ur game plan to beat the warriors is beat them from 3 point line I'm picking steph and klay

[@ernestz.9260]

The difference this year is hilariously bad roster construction and chemistry issues. If they get more size, rely less on guards, and clean out two roster spots that are non-factors, they could win the whole thing again if they play their cards right and shore up defensively. Also, it's becoming evident Draymond and Poole cannot be on the same team anymore, too much bad blood between the two.

[@LonelyHoops]

I think that +- with dray and steph is kinda flawed, it’s not like they’re the only 2 playing. This season whenever steph is playing he absolutely has to score on 70% of the possessions or else they aren’t scoring very often, this is obviously less efficient. I think it’s kinda ridiculous to suggest from last year to this year there was any sort of drop off because of the star warriors players. Imo it’s clearly the other players like Poole, moody, lamb, Ty Jerome, JMG etc that are at fault because these guys make the offence much less efficient when they’re on the court.

[@stefanoroberti]

Haven't heard the podcast, but isn't a light year a space unit rather than a time one?

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

Yes but it's a play off a quote from the warrior's front office about how much they were ahead of the league.

[@stefanoroberti]

@@RLSmith-jt8qj ah I was unaware of that. It's still used incorrectly in the thumbnail imo tho

[@paulgernah9990]

The wiseman draft was a miscalculation

[@nobeliefisok9174]

The idea Draymond/Curry +- on court is predicative is wrong, it is instead indicative of what happened. When the warriors are winning more the +- goes up, when they are not, it goes down. That is all. A more interesting thing to look at is the +- of every other player on and off court with Curry and Draymond. Both of these great players elevate every other player on court with them (separately and together), even now in 2023. In short the on court-measure is not predicative, but the difference to the off court measure is. The measure is how far down do every other player drag the warriors when not playing with Curry or Draymond. The greater the gap, the worse the warriors record, and the greater the gap the lower Curry/Draymonds +-.

[@jai_nasu]

Todays players need 5 brains and 4 arms to defend a single player but then the old heads be like “60/70/80/90s basketball had better defense”

[@darrengordon-hill]

NOT ONE PLAYER has "5 brains" or "4 arms", LET ALONE BOTH!!! See how you gotta straight make up fiction to dismiss the previous eras???

[@MrDodiasuki]

What if this warrior team is on purpose not to pull all of their strength so that other team will not see the real strategy until the playoff time

[@monkeymoo87]

It could be the end of the Warriors era who knows

[@constablekennedy7705]

The GSW are still some Cheese …. 🏀