How To Customize Your Pitching Arsenal (Pronation vs. Supination)

[@TheMadScientist07]

Can you do a video about pitch grips for pronation/supination to see which one works better for me and for curiosity? Thanks

[@treadathletics]

Can certainly look into a video like that! In the meantime, one way you can start testing grips would be to look at 4S fastball efficiencies of notable pitchers on Baseball Savant: baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/active-spin You can then jump over to Pitching Ninja's pitch grip drop box to find some of their grips! x.com/PitchingNinja/status/1174455758739689473

[@spencermackay9020]

This is exceptional, free content. Thanks very much indeed.

[@w1ntertide]

Ive been thinking about this for a long time! So glad this vid dropped

[@brianmolloy9393]

ZOMBIE IS BACK! YAY

[@spcooper94]

I found this really interesting

[@therealbs2000]

Mr zombro is the best

[@Ben-w8l]

🐐🐐🐐

[@RomancingTheData]

Best vid on KZbin

[@zolo7224]

Can the arm slot be influenced by Pronation vs. Supination? Pronation will more likely benefit from higher arm slots because they can get behind the ball better and get better FB IVB. Also sup bias may benefit from lower arm slots to get more movement on their pitches(doesn't mean side arm but more 3/4 and low 3/4 slot rather than over the top). I noticed this when I learned about PvS bias and I saw I am a pronator. I also increased my arm slot and my FB became much better in game and I later saw how much better it was on TM.

[@Bbtjw]

lower armslot can benefit pronators as well cause of the changeup axis ie devin williams

[@treadathletics]

There are certainly great examples at every arm slot. However, some of which is simply survivorship bias at the big league level

[@Henrypednaud]

How would you go about improving your shoulder hip separation?

[@treadathletics]

Check out this video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXfYoGSfn6-MpMU

[@Nobody-he4fm]

This is facinating. Makes me want to quit my a job and be a pitching coach. Although,don't have the pedigree, lol

[@plasmaduck3563]

I’m a pronator that throws from a high- normal 3/4 arm slot. I have a problem where some 4 seams I throw are 24 IVB and 11 HB and some are 13 IVB and 20 HB. I’ve been told by hitters that the one with more IVB looks better and is harder to hit, but I’m not sure how to make it consistent.

[@datSpookyDude]

How does this apply to younger pitchers who are still learning / developing their pitching mechanics? For example a middle school pitcher who typically gets around the ball... Should we leave that alone or encourage them to get more behind the ball (as coaches typically try to do)?

[@treadathletics]

Here is one example of how to implement this with younger pitchers: kzbin.infovqKM-WyuLTU

[@jessedinsmore685]

what's the easiest way to tell if you're a supinator or pronator without access to spin efficiency data? Velo testing being behind the ball/cutting and your velo drop off for breaking balls?

[@treadathletics]

Assessing ball flight during long toss, using the iphone camera on the slow motion setting to capture release, and assessing how much velocity you're losing on breaking balls

[@MarcOlivierForest]

Is there a way to design a seam shifted sinker or changeup without the use of high speed camera? If so what are your tips?

[@treadathletics]

Absolutely! Check out our pitch design on a budget video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpTYpZmLmtSBors

[@MarcOlivierForest]

@@treadathletics Thank you!

[@user-wm4lj7xr8u]

Are there any breaking pitches that you would recommend for someone with a pronation bias at a 3/4 slot?

[@treadathletics]

4seam, Changeup, and Gyro slider. Lean into that pronator triangle arsenal mentioned in the video

[@MPuu-sp2bl]

I think I'm heavy pronation bias because in film I'm more behind the ball which leads to my two seam moving alot arm side. I struggled to get a curve that was consistent for a while but finally got it down. Currently want to start trying to throw a slider but don't know where to start because I can't seem to get to the side of the ball consistently so that I can get it to cut/run glove side. Where should I start?

[@MPuu-sp2bl]

My curve is 12-6 and a ton slower than my fastball. Almost 18mph off of it

[@treadathletics]

Spiked grips can be a great place to start. Check out this death ball resource! kzbin.info24PY2_iM7RA?feature=share

[@MPuu-sp2bl]

Thanks! Also looking to add a slider/cutter how can I go about doing that? Tried before and nothing ever clicked

[@treadathletics]

Try to dial in that pronator triangle we mention (4S, Gyro, and CH). Lean into your strengths

[@rickynorris2751]

Love Tread Athletics! If I send you guys a video, can you tell me? I feel like I can throw an air bender but I'm thinking my arm hates me for it. So now I'm curious if I'm a supinator?

[@treadathletics]

What's the velocity separation between the FB and CH?

[@rickynorris2751]

​@@treadathletics 5-7MPH

[@rickynorris2751]

5-7MPH

[@treadathletics]

Hard to say without seeing the metrics, video, and assessing your mobility. But if you're only 5-7 off, maintaining FB arm angles, not pushing end range pronation, and throwing a true high efficiency airbender, then you may just be a pronator.

[@rickynorris2751]

​@@treadathletics Thank You!

[@mamasgun21]

My 2 seam has 20-25 inches of run and my 4 seam has 15-19 but my efficiency on my 4 seam is only around 60-70 am I a subinator?

[@treadathletics]

If your spin efficiency is that low on your fastball, then yes, you'd be a supinator

[@rsv9999]

i find it hard to command my fastball compared to my curveball, even though my curveball breaks a lot more, it’s likely due to my strong supination bias, esp since i can’t throw a changeup for a strike at all, any suggestions on how to work on this?

[@brendancoulson1322]

What about someone like Gerrit Cole who gets a lot of carry on his fastball but also throws curveballs? Would he be sup or pro?

[@mariodegenzgz]

Supination / pronation are a spectrum, and most guys fall in the middle. Cole is one of those guys, so are Verlander and many others.

[@treadathletics]

Exactly. And to be fair, Cole has become more of a supination biased pitcher in recent years having gone from 97-98% efficient on the FB from 2020-2022 down to 91% this year

[@GarethMann]

What do you think I am if I throw a two seam, knuckle curve, sweeper and splitter? I also can’t throw any changeup that is good that’s why I throw the spiltter

[@treadathletics]

Tough to say based solely off of what you're choosing to throw at this moment. If you're able to throw the curveball and sweeper with velocity, then you're likely a supinator

[@brendancoulson1322]

Can you throw a cutter as a pronator?

[@treadathletics]

Definitely. Many pronators throw cutters/gyros as their gloveside offering

[@MaddieMash-s4p]

So for pronation you said that its more or a true fast ball, and for supination its more cut; But what if your 4-seam naturally sinks would that be supination?

[@treadathletics]

That would likely be an indicator that you're supinating and not getting flush behind the ball at release

[@AryanPunjabi-sl9gt]

Is it possible to be decent at both? I can get my changeup/sweeper both to move a decent amount without sacrificing much velo. My fastball cut a lot growing up but I think that was just an arm path issue because after fixing my arm path and gaining velo it has more of 15 IVB 5 Horiz on average

[@treadathletics]

There are certainly pitchers who can do both. If you're at 15 and 5 (without much context), you're likely a supinator

[@Nobody-he4fm]

Question. I can get good movement on cutter or middle finger pressure fastball. When i pronate a 2 seam hooked on the laces i get crazy sink but no run. Is that signs of favoring supination?

[@treadathletics]

Tough to say without being able to see video of it. Are the velocities similar?

[@Nobody-he4fm]

@@treadathletics a little slower and i pronate hard with a high arm slot

[@treadathletics]

Sounds like you may just be a pronator? Unclear without more context

[@Nobody-he4fm]

@@treadathletics thx for feedback. Love the content! Ya'll are the best!

[@treadathletics]

Thanks! Would love to get more info if you're interested: treadathletics.com/contact-us/

[@sladewilson3072]

What do I do if I'm a pronation-biased guy from a low slot?

[@treadathletics]

You'll see some big leaguers have success throwing sinkers, changeups, and gyro sliders from down there. Especially if you can create angles

[@rsv9999]

dude my supination bias is so overkill that my splitters have topspin on them

[@RomancingTheData]

😮

[@rsv9999]

@@RomancingTheData it’s not a superpower, its hard for me to understand a grip that has ssw because of it

[@heheheha1091]

I do t get topspin on Mine but I do get an insanely deep cutty splitters, it’s very hard for me to create armside run. Have been trying a kick change though and it creates some run to it

[@RomancingTheData]

@@rsv9999 I'd try an SSW SPL grip where you grip the seam with your middle-finger and emphasize middle-finger pressure. If things really don't work, keep trying the the kick change. You must be an exceptional supinator and lean into it.

[@RomancingTheData]

@@heheheha1091 That's actually for the best; Fernando Cruz has an extremely cutty SPL, and its probably the best SPL in baseball.

[@DavidHull3_OfficialBaseball]

I’m a 14 year old freshman and I don’t have any tech once so ever. I know I’m a pronater because I literally can’t throw a change up. I think of myself as an advanced pitcher from a mechanics and pit ch standpoint so I’m confident I’m right. I also throw breaking balls and cutters and sinker and cut my fastball naturally so…

[@treadathletics]

If you're cutting your fastball, you would be a supinator

[@DavidHull3_OfficialBaseball]

@@treadathletics I thought so

[@therealbs2000]

First

[@Ty420]

0:35 That looks painful