How to install the Schluter®-KERDI-DRAIN with a Mortar Base and Waterproofing

[@vnh8922]

Perfect video. Very nice and clear and easy to follow

[@Allworldsk1]

I appreciate these videos very much. Thank you.

[@schlutersystems1]

You're most welcome!

[@matts.8342]

I would imagine you would want to install all the membrane after the shower pan is ready so that the water sheds from one piece of kerdi onto the next instead of having more of an opportunity to get behind it through capillary action of the thinset. My thinking is to install the membrane on the shower bed and curb first, then the corners and banding, and finally the walls. That way the water flows from one section onto the top of another section, much like shingles on a pitched roof. That way any capillary action also has to fight gravity to cause an issue instead of being assisted by it. Is my thinking flawed? Thanks!

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Matt, you could do it that if you wanted. Either way is fine. The sequence of membrane installation can vary provided that a minimum 2" (50 mm) overlap is maintained at all joints and proper connection to the KERDI-DRAIN is established. Top-over-bottom or shingle lapping of the the membrane is not actually necessary for waterproofing with KERDI and KERDI-BAND. The capillary action within the thin-set is not enough to allow the water to penetrate the 2" overlap, regardless of which way it is flowing. Hope this helps!

[@seemssafe2995]

I had the same thought Matt

[@robertespinoza5561]

A roof is not made to hold water it is made to shed as fast as possible , a shower pan is made to hold water although the kerdi system is not made to hold water for long periods of time it can hold the water long enough to drain so in theory it will drain way b4 Capillary action

[@Tyscrat]

You’re thought process is correct but not for this application. Picture it as a cereal bowl , not a water shedding system. This system is meant to hold water so the layers can go in whatever order you want.

[@davidherd3739]

Great tutorial, Schluter. Thank you for producing this video. I’ve seen other installers use this method, but they’ve only used the kerdi boards because they’re waterproof throughout. In this example, the kerdi membrane was used over drywall. I’m assuming both are accepted uses?

[@schlutersystems1]

Thanks David! Yes, that's right... Kerdi over drywall or KERDI-BOARD in one swoop! Here are a few links if you'd like more info on both options: Kerdi: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Waterproofing-(KERDI)/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI/p/KERDI Kerdi-Board: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Building-Panels/KERDI-BOARD-Panels/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-BOARD/p/KERDI_BOARD Options for your shower: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/showers/shower_with_point_drain

[@jtltet]

Could you put down Schluter Ditra over the plywood subfloor and then do the dry pack versus the 4 mil and metal lathe?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there, this is not an application that we have tested, so we couldn't recommend this. Interesting though! If you have a project in mind, please give our Customer Service team a call to discuss in more detail, and they can offer some suggestions. 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (Canada). Thanks!

[@adaml.4938]

I’m remodeling my bathroom with a large curb less walk in shower. I plan to install DITRA Heat throughout the bathroom and shower floor. What is the process for installing the drain in deck mud but accounting for the DITRA mat? I have watched the Schluter Systems video on this, but it is a linear drain with the pre-sloped pan. Thanks for the help!

[@yousuckwadd]

Me too!

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Adam, we don't have a video with a mud install, but you can give our Product Support team a call to discuss your project in a bit more detail, and they can advise directly from there or connect you with your local Schluter rep. 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (Canada). We do have a Ditra-Heat in a shower video that I thought might help: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIbMY2mrhsd9oNE

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Kyle, here's the same link I provided to Adam, and you can always give our product support team a call to guide you through your project. 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (Canada). Ditra-Heat in the shower kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIbMY2mrhsd9oNE

[@jhkim8972]

Hello. I wonder if this product can be used in water desalination areas. I'm planning to build a bathtub with tiles, and I want to waterproof it with this product.

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! Would you be able to reach out to our Customer Service team to discuss your project in a bit more detail? They’ll be able to request more information on the specifics of your project to give you the most accurate answer possible. You can reach them at 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (CA). Thanks

[@danielbrannigan6532]

Can I add an additional mortar base over the waterproof membrane, level with a linear drain. Then apply microcement.

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Daniel, Mind giving our customer support team a call for this? US 800-472-4588 CA 800-667-8746 🍊

[@grubburg5201]

How can you get a full inch of mortar by the drain on a curbless? You'd REALLY have to recess the floor

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! You are right, if you use a mudbed, you would need to recess the floor more than normal. For a curbless shower, one of our thin shower trays is the most simple option. Hope that helps!

[@luke9822]

9:48 The video here looks like he's butting the kerdi band to the corners, but it's deceiving. Earlier, at 9:11 it shows that the corners go out another 2 inches from where the inside corner meets on the bottom surface. (this is the most "replayed" part of the video, so it seems many people have this impression/question)

[@schlutersystems1]

Hello! At 9:11 he installs the KERDI inside corner, but the rest of the wall/floor junction needs to be sealed with KERDI-BAND. At 9:48 he is showing that you can install the KERDI-BAND 2'' away from the corner to avoid a build-up in this area and still achieve the 2'' overlap with the KERDI-BAND and the inside corner piece. Hope this helps!

[@tajrulesyou]

Do you still need to place the plastic and metal under layers if the subfloor is concrete?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Taj, it is a good idea to provide a vapor barrier and cleavage membrane over concrete. If you would like to discuss your particular project in more detail, please reach out to our Product Support team: 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (Canada). Thanks!

[@samuelclark8706]

When extending the schluter prefab shower curb with dry pack mortar, I have seen the schluter videos that show the dry pack placed directly on wood subfloor. Is this correct or does 4mil plastic and lathe need to be installed underneath the dry pack portion? If so, does the plastic go under the prefab shower pan as well?

[@schlutersystems1]

If you are only extending the tray, it is not necessary to add the PE sheet or the lath. You would only need those if you are doing a complete mud bed. Also, no PE sheet would be used under the tray, regardless. Hope that helps!

[@samuelclark8706]

Thank you!

[@schlutersystems1]

🍊

[@dsromero3805]

Can the tray be installed with durock cement boards on the walls? I was looking for a pre sloped system and I think this tray may work… I also left about 1 1/2ft from the subfloor that still doesn’t have durock since I’m trying to find an easier way to do the slope rather then doing it by hand with dry pack (sand)

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! Would you be able to reach out to our Product support team to discuss your project in a bit more detail? A live conversation will best! You can reach them at 888-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (CA). Thanks

[@versarious1292]

Is it suitable for a dry pack to be installed without the lathe base and directly against the 2x4 curb and on a wetted plywood subfloor? Someone who claims to be a schluter certified installer in my area has done this and I am worried about it not being installed correctly.

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! Could you please contact our customer service team for this one? US 800-472-4588 CA 800-667-8746 Thanks!

[@hatchetrob]

@9:50, can someone explain this better? The band doesn't have to go on top of the kerick corner? How would this follow the 2" overlap rule if the banding is just butted to the kerik corner.

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there. Thank you for your question. Since the KERDI-KERECK corner is already installed in the corner, the 2" overlap applies to the KERDI-BAND overlapping the KERDI-KERECK inside corners. The KERDI-BAND does not completely overlap the KERDI-KERECK corners to avoid too much buildup of the banding and setting material; however, the KERDI-BAND does overlap the KERDI-KERECK corners by 2" to maintain the overlap requirement. Hope that helps!

[@G45and47]

@@schlutersystems1sorry, that explanation was clear as mud. Does the band overlap the corner by 2”, because it doesn’t show that in the video?

[@G45and47]

Did the response from Schluter make sense to you because it didn’t to me. Are you able to explain the whole 2” overlap in the corners better?

[@luke9822]

@@schlutersystems1 What you seem to be explaining does not seem to align with what the video shows. It shows the band pulled away and butted up to the corners, not overlapping them.

[@kirklima1640]

you put the drypack right against drywall curbs without any protection beneath the membrane. Is this correct?

[@schlutersystems1]

Sorry for the wait, Kirk! Yes, the dry pack can be installed directly to the drywall.

[@skeleman1963]

What if the mortar is going over a concrete slab??

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! When installing KERDI-DRAIN over concrete substrates, the minimum thickness of mortar required at the perimeter of the bonding flange is 3/4" and the wire mesh and cleavage membrane are not needed. Everything else is the same. Hope that helps!

[@kylegrift3663]

Can I use dry pack underneath the kerdi foam shower base?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Kyle, As long as it is flat and even and is to a point where it can be walked on, yes. 🙂

[@JABoomer]

Hi, the videos all show installing Kereck inside corners before Kerdi Band. If I actually wanted to build up a corner slightly (in the shower corners) is there any objection to installing Kerdi Band and then the Kereck inside corners over top?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Joey! Yes, the KERDI-BAND can be installed prior to the KERECK corners. Just make sure you have the required 2" overlap everywhere and you are all set. Thanks!

[@JABoomer]

@@schlutersystems1 Thank you for your clear and concise answer, much appreciated!

[@schlutersystems1]

Pleasure!

[@jun2611]

Where does the water go if the water proof membrane fail?? Is it going to collect in the screed n no way out?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! Proper installation of KERDI membrane ensures that the application is 100% waterproof and designed to last a long time.

[@gabrielc2175]

Why not cut the membrane 4 inches wider and run it up the walls instead of overlapping bands? Of course, the corners need to be cut.

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! You can do that if you want. There are plenty of options with the way you choose to perform the waterproofing. We used the KERDI on the base and then the KERDI-BAND to join the KERDI on the wall with the KERDI on the base because the KERDI-BAND is a little thinner and can be a little less build up, which may come in hand when using smaller tiles. But, whatever works best for you, as long as you have a 2" overlap, works for us!

[@chrisdion2612]

What type of mortar can you use to extend the shower pan?

[@schlutersystems1]

he shower pan can be extended beyond the tray size using dry-pack mortar. This video shows how: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/video_shower-systems/video/jm4AdHLjnaA/playlist/PLEFjeySFJM-AYWe2Mq6QzFCfelsBsqMVd

[@neykodimov2786]

Dry pack mortar. You can find it anywhere they sell tiles or at Home depot again by the tiles section

[@FlyHighVFR]

When setting the drain. Do I use the same mortar just adding more water. Or should I use something different like “thinset”?

[@schlutersystems1]

Thanks for your question! When setting the drain with a mortar bed, you should use the same mortar with a little more water mixed in. If you’re installer the Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-TRAY, you would use thin-set to set the drain. Hope this helps!

[@schlutersystems1]

It's best to install the drain flange with the loose mortar prior to completing the mud bed, so you can seat the flange into the mortar to the correct height. This will allow for a proper and even slope of the mud bed to the drain. If the mud bed is competed prior to installing the drain, the flange will not have much room for height adjustment, if it is only being bonded down on a thin layer of thin-set. If you would like to discuss a particular project in more detail, please reach out to our Product Support team. 800-472-4588 (US) or 800-667-8746 (Canada). Thanks!

[@kennethyanni1845]

is not the wet bed way to high on the short side . looks like only a ft away with base level set for longest run

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi Kenneth! You want to have the perimeter at the same height all the way around for tiling. This height is based on 1/4" per foot for the the slope of the drain to the furthest wall. The amount of slope to the drain will be more to the closer wall. This is why a mud bed is a versatile option for applications where the drain is in an unusual placement.

[@zxxhahaxxz]

That’s like 3 inches of subfloor 😳 these guys don’t mess around 😂😂😂

[@powdergangster83]

How do I install the actual floor drain????? You have zero videos showing that, and all the same videos showing this part. It is helpful, but what about the actual floor drain?

[@schlutersystems1]

Hi there! Here is a video showing how to install the drain grate itself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5mzfoqZZ5eigZo We also have this video that shows how to connect the plumbing "from below" as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q169en-PfriYjpo Hope these help with the various steps you were looking for. :)

[@jun2611]

Where does the water go just in case of the waterproof fail n get into the screed?

[@schlutersystems1]

Proper installation of KERDI membrane ensures that the application is 100% waterproof and designed to last a long time.

[@Lu-cho]

@@schlutersystems1 Fake answer: He ask about: WHAT ABOUT IF *"WASN'T PROPER INSTALLATION"?* Where does the water go??? I think is to many small pieces to cut and glue! And price?

[@justingadowski9419]

@@Lu-cho if you cant install this properly then you shouldn't be doing tile work. If you dont use all schluter products on the whole shower installation ( thinset, wallboards, kerdi glue for the buttjoints, screws, fabric for corners and their premade curb) then they wont warranty their product and wont guarantee its leak proof. So it would be a voided warranty anyways and your on your own which would defeat the purpose of using their product to begin with. If you install properly with all their materials then failing isn't an issue and if it were then they would cover the replacement costs.

[@Lu-cho]

@@justingadowski9419 I think your world is people been a PERFECT. in my world the people are not perfect... tou see a skilled/professional (they called themselves) they fail... I believe they try to use this plastic and they are not perfect... (not body is perfect) That's the question: Where the water goes??? And what happened if:? We don't asking about warranty here. I believe all the people been using this only %10 of people been doing almost right way enough to have the warranty... The rest will figure out like 2-5 years when mold starts show up. All the products are not perfectly made and of course not perfectly installed.

[@brianjohnson8883]

? The water will always follow gravity (most refer to this as, down?) and the path of least resistance, there is no weep drain or need for one

[@rupertinochangolla4492]

Really clear this guy it's not a real installer

[@Greg-kc1dw]

this reminds me why i never do mud pack anymore lol no thanks 😂