How to Properly Recover in Smash Ultimate

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ProGuides Super Smash Bros Ultimate Tips

ProGuides Super Smash Bros Ultimate Tips

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Пікірлер: 345
@cjsports5462
@cjsports5462 4 жыл бұрын
If you’re a little Mac main just forget this. You won’t use it anyways.
@Me41687
@Me41687 4 жыл бұрын
Can we get an F for all little mac mains
@BeretBay
@BeretBay 4 жыл бұрын
5:56 There's a section even Mac mains will find trivial.
@duelistsdragons1789
@duelistsdragons1789 4 жыл бұрын
What about the wall jumping part?
@BeretBay
@BeretBay 4 жыл бұрын
@@duelistsdragons1789 Mac's wall jump is useless on legal stages unless he somehow has a jump saved, but assuming you've probably been sent offstage you would have to jump to get that close to it anyway. He falls like a brick too which makes it harder altogether.
@jvbon646
@jvbon646 4 жыл бұрын
@@duelistsdragons1789 His wall jump is only useful when falling between Saphron City's buildings or similar scenarios. No one plays in those when using Tournament Rules, so yep, it's useless...
@mondobe
@mondobe 4 жыл бұрын
“Wall jumps are prevalent in stages with walls” Ah yes, the floor here is made out of floor.
@BoingyBoy
@BoingyBoy 4 жыл бұрын
Lol
@mexicanweeb245
@mexicanweeb245 4 жыл бұрын
Correction, “hm yes, the fler is made out of fler.”
@simnm8057
@simnm8057 4 жыл бұрын
Ah yes the wall here is made out of wall
@verticaldorito
@verticaldorito 4 жыл бұрын
the sky is blue
@keigan90
@keigan90 2 жыл бұрын
OH I LOVE THIS MEME
@wakilhamidi3377
@wakilhamidi3377 4 жыл бұрын
Gets hit off stage All characters:Recovers Little Mac:guess i'll die
@vick7868
@vick7868 4 жыл бұрын
Little Mac: lands in blastzone for 69420th time Dr. Mario: *helo*
@dangerouslyslurp7404
@dangerouslyslurp7404 3 жыл бұрын
@@vick7868 hello* HAH lol jk
@Sami_8625
@Sami_8625 2 жыл бұрын
LMAO, yall must suck with Mac. Fight a good one and try just throwing them. It won't work like you think
@leothesleepingdog6055
@leothesleepingdog6055 2 жыл бұрын
@@Sami_8625 one Falco laser and he dies offstage
@El_Mince
@El_Mince Жыл бұрын
Tell that to Peanut
@sideofjay
@sideofjay 4 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, 10 minutes and 1 second.
@nvmb6451
@nvmb6451 4 жыл бұрын
Side Of Jay it's only 3 ads tho and they give us good tips anyways
@jeisonhansson
@jeisonhansson 4 жыл бұрын
@@nvmb6451 damn 3 ads, thats horrible.. Haven't seen an ad since youtube premium released
@officialjokker124
@officialjokker124 4 жыл бұрын
MyZ Holy “only 3 ads” still a lot of ads for one second beyond ten minutes
@aidyn2873
@aidyn2873 4 жыл бұрын
Gotta get that as revenue
@dogefan12349
@dogefan12349 4 жыл бұрын
@@aidyn2873 I prefer ar revenue myself
@gnossiennegymnopedie8554
@gnossiennegymnopedie8554 3 жыл бұрын
Ah yes I totally know what tekking is, and that 2 second explanation taught me everything.
@cha0sleader
@cha0sleader 4 жыл бұрын
A perfectly fine basic primer for recovering one step above basic. So many recovery options though vary widely from character to character, and more in-depth breakdowns would become character specific.
@glados1099
@glados1099 4 жыл бұрын
When you are a villager main: alright imma fly out
@MsHannahcam
@MsHannahcam 4 жыл бұрын
Or Isabelle
@villagerthekiller9710
@villagerthekiller9710 4 жыл бұрын
(~_^)
@decidueyefan3844
@decidueyefan3844 4 жыл бұрын
Peach: gets knocked off of the stage My brain: ok just yeet back over and jump back up, parasol if necessary My hands: so u said jump crown smack then toad and after that parasol slowly to death
@Lola-kd9bn
@Lola-kd9bn 4 жыл бұрын
Charles Brown jr dis is real meme
@GannonMan
@GannonMan 4 жыл бұрын
i dont like how you cant grab the ledge if you use peach/daisys up b backwards and thats why i dont main them (also bcz they cant spike)
@themilkman7765
@themilkman7765 4 жыл бұрын
He didnt really cover air dodging that much. If you're playing a character with a not so great recovery, sometimes you need to airdoge toward the stage first, then recover low. I found this to be helpful with cloud, ganon, Simon, and lucina. Just be aware that you cannot air dodge twice unless you are hit again
@callumboyle1206
@callumboyle1206 3 жыл бұрын
I see you everywhere bro
@clv3d
@clv3d 2 жыл бұрын
@@callumboyle1206 because he has to be everywhere! He’s the milkman for crying out loud!!
@ajsgodlike310
@ajsgodlike310 Жыл бұрын
And Dr Mario kinda
@UltimateTS64
@UltimateTS64 4 жыл бұрын
I still don't get why y'all use artwork from past games with Ultimate guides, but always good stuff
@mexicanweeb245
@mexicanweeb245 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe because they use GameCube controllers?
@UltimateTS64
@UltimateTS64 4 жыл бұрын
@@mexicanweeb245 I don't think that's why, but who knows honestly? Like why use Brawl and Smash 4 artwork and animations for your thumbnails instead of Ultimate, the game you're talking about 🤷🏾‍♂️😂
@TheSylveonSurfer
@TheSylveonSurfer 4 жыл бұрын
This is great info... That I'll be able to use once I figure out how to get out of... Idk what Smash players call it... Stunned fall? Free fall? Idk. When you get hit real hard off stage but simply pressing jump doesn't actually let you jump and now I'm just a squid somersaulting through the air wondering how I even got here in the first place? Why am I fighting a tie-wearing gorilla in space? I was just having a Turf War with some homies and now I'm getting my booty clapped by Harambe.
@heartfelt_hero
@heartfelt_hero 4 жыл бұрын
Genius comment.
@samsegal5213
@samsegal5213 4 жыл бұрын
It's generally called free-fall
@armanpamma9454
@armanpamma9454 4 жыл бұрын
I thought it was called tumble
@november9407
@november9407 4 жыл бұрын
Try using an aerial. Any move breaks it, so find out your main’s fastest aerial and do that when you’re in freefall
@mjwoods14
@mjwoods14 4 жыл бұрын
I call it the *Helen Keller*
@aidanbrennankearney7859
@aidanbrennankearney7859 4 жыл бұрын
Mii. Fighter : I HAVE TO RECOVER ! .. Then proceeds to throw himself off the map as fast as he can
@arandompringlescan1518
@arandompringlescan1518 4 жыл бұрын
That falcon combo was sick 8:00
@auctive7439
@auctive7439 4 жыл бұрын
Sometimes when I try to recover my brain stops and I die.
@auctive7439
@auctive7439 3 жыл бұрын
@Blorp yeah had to be given cpr about 287 times now it sucks
@auctive7439
@auctive7439 3 жыл бұрын
@Blorp thanks
@thecheeseinator8458
@thecheeseinator8458 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the advice
@mateorendon1188
@mateorendon1188 4 жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks
@riotjohnson889
@riotjohnson889 3 жыл бұрын
This video was good but I wish there was a straight up solid list for recovery options and the buttons to press to do them. Like #1 is the double jump (press X/Y twice), #2 is Up smash (press up B)
@nickb8755
@nickb8755 2 жыл бұрын
Nice video for players newer to levels of play
@JohnnyFire117
@JohnnyFire117 4 жыл бұрын
I always have a hard time to recover from off stage but thanks to this video it will help me better (hope so...)
@FreeAimDog
@FreeAimDog 9 ай бұрын
my thoughts in a nutshell, i wanted to play a fighting game not a platformer
@Zaimui
@Zaimui 4 жыл бұрын
Great fundamental explanation. Like, these tutorials are good
@BN10702
@BN10702 4 жыл бұрын
If you get spiked as Pac Man when your using ur Up B, you bounce back on to the trampoline.
@vick7868
@vick7868 4 жыл бұрын
I love doing that. It's by far the funniest and stupidest "no u" in this game XD
@Jords250
@Jords250 2 жыл бұрын
I used that against a pac Main once Dair then immediately Nair
@darealzachary8683
@darealzachary8683 4 жыл бұрын
I knew almost everything about recovering safely but wasn’t sure about stage spiking so this really helped thanks 🗿
@aIkaIi
@aIkaIi 4 жыл бұрын
RIP old voice of pro guides
@silent_soul7597
@silent_soul7597 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks this really helped
@tophatplant2473
@tophatplant2473 4 жыл бұрын
8:13 *a soul for a soul*
@NotDM
@NotDM 3 жыл бұрын
Welp I never knew that buffering prioritizes on specials than shielding so that was actually very helpful to know
@rivierjojo
@rivierjojo 2 жыл бұрын
honestly, i need to watch this video over and over again, because 9/10 times i play together with my boyfriend i kill myself off the stage most of the matches, he mostly doesnt even have a chance to kill me, i always do it myself, and this makes me so damn frustrated to play, it takes away the fun for me.
@jacobmohr2641
@jacobmohr2641 4 жыл бұрын
No tether recovery section? Okay..
@yo-pd7jz
@yo-pd7jz 4 жыл бұрын
Jacob Mohr y would you need one. Just press grab near ledge. The only character that might need one is Lucas, with stuff like double jump cancel Zair and zair cancled by Wave bounce psi magnet .
@jacobmohr2641
@jacobmohr2641 4 жыл бұрын
MrPegLegJoe I just wanted more insight on when it’s more reliable to tether than upB. I’m a Samus main
@yo-pd7jz
@yo-pd7jz 4 жыл бұрын
Jacob Mohr tether for horizantle recovery, up b for vertical
@AtMr8MinutesIsReal
@AtMr8MinutesIsReal 4 жыл бұрын
Explain for joker
@alexsolano27
@alexsolano27 4 жыл бұрын
King Rockitcool Joker’s Up B is his tether recovery without Arsene and he uses Wings of Rebellion for his Up B with Arsene. His grab does nothing for recovering. So there’s nothing special to learn when it comes to Joker’s recovery option
@sirteacup1182
@sirteacup1182 4 жыл бұрын
Tip 1: Don’t play little mac
@rangopistacho6928
@rangopistacho6928 3 жыл бұрын
Tip 2: main palutena
@gabeg.5329
@gabeg.5329 3 жыл бұрын
Tip 3: Don’t play Falcon or Ganon against someone who knows how to rockcrock.
@rabi2ahmadu
@rabi2ahmadu 4 жыл бұрын
great edition
@liliacfury
@liliacfury 3 жыл бұрын
So once you jump twice, you no longer can jump until you have landed on the ground / grabbed the ledge. An opponent attacking or grabbing you doesn’t reset it. Meanwhile same applies to specialist, but attacks / grabs do reset it? Does anything else reset it?
@ethanyazdani9753
@ethanyazdani9753 4 жыл бұрын
*thank you*
@BoingyBoy
@BoingyBoy 4 жыл бұрын
THANKS!
@jjxrden
@jjxrden 4 жыл бұрын
When I try to recover I end up panicking and start mashing buttons, and then I just watch as I fall to my death
@bonniesamuelson1952
@bonniesamuelson1952 4 жыл бұрын
A few things I want to mention that you did not about recovering... 1) Grappeling helps many fighters, especially ones with bad recoverys. The follosing fighters can grapple... Ivysaur, Byleth, Zero Suit Samus, Joker, Samus, Dark Samus (ley me know if i missed anyone) to grappel, just press the R button near the ledge. 2) Air dodging is big, especially when avoiding attacks. It also gets you a little farther in any way. Just press sheild while in the air, and press a direction. Edit: Toon Link & Young Link to! Thank You Typical Irving! Edit 2: Isabell. Thanks Hannah Campbell!
@irving1k414
@irving1k414 4 жыл бұрын
Bonnie Samuelson Toon link and young link too
@MsHannahcam
@MsHannahcam 4 жыл бұрын
Isabelle with the rod sideb
@MsHannahcam
@MsHannahcam 4 жыл бұрын
And Byleth now
@bonniesamuelson1952
@bonniesamuelson1952 4 жыл бұрын
@@MsHannahcam I alredy have Byleth in there
@The_Ultimate_Tree
@The_Ultimate_Tree Ай бұрын
​@@bonniesamuelson1952The only thing about air dodging is if the other player can predict it, then you could get major punished. Also if there using someone like DK who has a nasty up smash, then you still could get punished
@kidaelo64
@kidaelo64 4 жыл бұрын
That falcon punch at 8:14!!!
@priyachandrasekaran4097
@priyachandrasekaran4097 4 жыл бұрын
This is really great for me now. Cause my main is joker. And I know now he can wall jump! So easier ways to crush my friends in smash.
@Hazardsubot
@Hazardsubot 3 жыл бұрын
Also Sephiroth has a pseudo wallcling in the form of fair sticking his sword into the stage
@for-worn
@for-worn 4 жыл бұрын
4:00 is when the teching tips come in. Saying this because ive been looking for it. Figured i may as well say. 6:50 is the tech or up b
@yoshiandtailsfan8797
@yoshiandtailsfan8797 4 жыл бұрын
This will help me recover!
@owen9517
@owen9517 4 жыл бұрын
This floor is made out of floor!
@brycelewis3301
@brycelewis3301 4 жыл бұрын
If you are outside, you are not inside!
@deiradinn
@deiradinn 3 жыл бұрын
I barely just get back at all at this point lol.
@chasetalks2much
@chasetalks2much 4 жыл бұрын
I’m a luigi main...damn I’m like little Mac but with a vertical recovery that works
@greendaybowser
@greendaybowser 4 жыл бұрын
ProGuides for League explain things well and concise, so why does ProGuides for Smash feel like I'm being babied? Granted I don't really need beginner info for Smash cause I've been playing for years, but do need beginner info for League sometimes so that could be part of it...but that's just kinda how I feel watching ProGuides do Smash stuff. It's admittedly lackluster compared to their other games.
@Miyamoto_Jim
@Miyamoto_Jim 3 жыл бұрын
So if you are buffering up B while holding shield (R), should you be spamming b or holding/timing ur b?
@Doc27901
@Doc27901 4 жыл бұрын
Little Mac Mains: Write that down, write that down
@Dr.Slaughter
@Dr.Slaughter 3 жыл бұрын
So my biggest problem with this game is how often I accidentally kill my self. Like my character either doesnt grab the ledge when he is right next to it, they like brush against it then dont grab. Or my character loses a jump when I know I didnt lose it yet. Or my character's up B move doesnt move in the direction I tell them to! Moves that send you in the direction you tell them to like fox for example.
@wills_corner
@wills_corner 3 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU PROGUIDES! But how do I spike?
@evanderholyfieldsear9195
@evanderholyfieldsear9195 3 жыл бұрын
Video: *Speaks about teching* Me, an old gen, Smash Bros tournament player that played Smash Bros 1 and Melee since early 2000's: "Is this some kind of newgen joke that I'm too OG to understand?"
@SpartanOfLuxon
@SpartanOfLuxon 4 жыл бұрын
This guide went from "I already know all this, I guess I'll finish the video out of bordem" to "What the fuck did that mario do? how did this happen, what is any of this"
@nonachyourbusiness1164
@nonachyourbusiness1164 3 жыл бұрын
It's now known as "The Miller Griller" to punish Falcon up-B stage spike
@jbmjavi4392
@jbmjavi4392 4 жыл бұрын
Toon link would perfect recover everything from any character seen his buff it's to OP, nothing's stop his recovery 😂
@oponentgull186others4
@oponentgull186others4 4 жыл бұрын
“The majority of the characters have a up special that sends them upwards.” Littlemac: sad boxing noises.
@Stathio
@Stathio 3 жыл бұрын
But... his up special *DOES* send him upwards. That's literally what it does.
@matias3384
@matias3384 4 жыл бұрын
thankssss
@ConnortheGonnor
@ConnortheGonnor 4 жыл бұрын
Up special is one way, I don't only three people besides myself that actually know how to recover well off stage
@ScreamSodaInc
@ScreamSodaInc 4 жыл бұрын
Those poor people who don't try to get back to the stage
@arrrnora
@arrrnora 2 жыл бұрын
What's the red glove symbol in the "Characters With Wall Jumps" section mean? 8:27
@aminekhoury1470
@aminekhoury1470 4 жыл бұрын
Is it okay if we hold the shield button while the up B goes up or we have to press on perfect timing ?
@aminekhoury1470
@aminekhoury1470 4 жыл бұрын
Doğukan Yavuz thanks
@rabi2ahmadu
@rabi2ahmadu 4 жыл бұрын
music is great. i don't even have the game yet
@kobec216
@kobec216 4 жыл бұрын
1:05 my friend always claps me like that with donkey kong thanks for the tip
@zionicnight5306
@zionicnight5306 2 жыл бұрын
Me: fight me as I'm off stage still attacking
@emme6907
@emme6907 Жыл бұрын
Sometimes I see pro in tournaments first doing a jump, then up air dodge and then up b. I tried in game but seems impossible for the lag directional airdodge gives. Am I misinterpreting what pros do, or there s a way? I saw it happen with Cloud and Simon who both have poor recoveries, yet they managed to recover from a seemingly impossible distance.
@1337F0X
@1337F0X 4 жыл бұрын
I think this is still missing the 2 frame punish warning and options
@the_wisp-gaming4444
@the_wisp-gaming4444 4 жыл бұрын
None of my mains have a wall jump rip :(
@Navoii.
@Navoii. 4 жыл бұрын
SUBBED IN AN AD BEFORE VID BROO
@davidsonsimeus3298
@davidsonsimeus3298 3 жыл бұрын
I don't know if people will appreciate this but that trap mix in the background playing was fire.🔥🔥🔥
@raymondchen6025
@raymondchen6025 4 жыл бұрын
If you're going for the "noob jump" just mix in an attack with it. With Lucina just spam Fair whenever possible.
@NoireKR
@NoireKR 4 жыл бұрын
Lucian
@raymondchen6025
@raymondchen6025 4 жыл бұрын
@@NoireKR Fixed, thank you
@danzbtw18yearsago20
@danzbtw18yearsago20 4 жыл бұрын
I didn’t know smash was here 18 years before
@07omarbautista
@07omarbautista 3 жыл бұрын
7:28-7:35 can anyone explain real quick how he jumped off with Mario facing away from the ledge but when he did his Up B he did towards the ledge? I die a lot when doing that playing Mario I just wanna know how he jumped off facing away but managed to do his up B towards the ledge cuz normally if I would’ve up B like he did in this section of the video Mario would’ve went to right more instead of towards the ledge
@LiamWins
@LiamWins 3 жыл бұрын
He did it by pushing the joystick to the left right after/during he pressed up-b
@Tubby_Dutch
@Tubby_Dutch 4 жыл бұрын
Pro guides: doesn't finish sentence. Also Pro guides: don't mind me i'm just getting my video to ten minutes
@botwred
@botwred 4 жыл бұрын
That’s useful
@meowgoop6191
@meowgoop6191 3 жыл бұрын
What if im mario and im facing the other way, because with his recovery goes up and slightly sideways when he recovers
@Stathio
@Stathio 3 жыл бұрын
You can use B-reverse for that- this means pressing the opposite upward diagonal direction towards the ledge when you activate Mario's up-B special. It's a little tricky to describe, and you have to time it right (practice it in training mode until you get it!) but basically, you can reverse the direction after activating that if you do it right- that'd aim you towards the ledge instead of away from it. I use it all the time to get Ike's up-B going in the right direction if I'm facing the wrong way.
@RandomSearch4
@RandomSearch4 2 жыл бұрын
"Can we all agree that when they uploads our days gets better" 😆
@ZekePolarisBSH
@ZekePolarisBSH 4 жыл бұрын
Trying to watch your video and I get an advertisement for the same game.
@isaiahmoore6853
@isaiahmoore6853 4 жыл бұрын
Can you do a charter guild for pit
@andrewcheng1948
@andrewcheng1948 2 жыл бұрын
0:39 why did you need a slow mo for literally 1 button press?
@luiscarlosmairenasiu7142
@luiscarlosmairenasiu7142 4 жыл бұрын
Y recuerden si eres un main Littel Mac, mejor vuele al vacío.
@Capu94
@Capu94 4 жыл бұрын
you won a subscriber
@froppytheoneondiscord
@froppytheoneondiscord Жыл бұрын
Pit and dark pits recovery tho IT'S TOO OVERPOVERED
@alexios4512
@alexios4512 4 жыл бұрын
yo man im keeping this guide
@christianruano2761
@christianruano2761 4 жыл бұрын
On what console is this played? I used to play super Mario bros smash on Nintendo 64 and I fell in love with the game
@sansdeltarune7510
@sansdeltarune7510 4 жыл бұрын
Christian Ruano Nintendo switch
@Matter_Of_Fact
@Matter_Of_Fact 4 жыл бұрын
We tech those
@pxlpsplanet
@pxlpsplanet 4 жыл бұрын
It actually helps
@AnhThuNguyen-zz2hm
@AnhThuNguyen-zz2hm 4 жыл бұрын
3:27 Peach and Daisy Mains: not always 7:32 Characters without wall jumps: :(
@esqimo6647
@esqimo6647 3 жыл бұрын
Wdym “not always”
@rangopistacho6928
@rangopistacho6928 3 жыл бұрын
Palutena mains: *laughs in teleport* Rob mains: *laughs in rocket jets* Lucario: *laughs in ridiculous recovery* Snake and link: *laughs in explosives*
@undead148
@undead148 Жыл бұрын
AMAZING VID even in 2023
@garrettroberts4960
@garrettroberts4960 4 жыл бұрын
What happened to Link’s remote control bombs?
@jacobmohr82
@jacobmohr82 3 жыл бұрын
You can wall jump on every legal stage. Just some are harder than others
@yerem769
@yerem769 4 жыл бұрын
Hello proguide, I have a problem I keep losing agaist my brother because he always read me? Can you give me an advice to win (sorry for spelling mistake im a french Guy) thank you :)
@Stint.
@Stint. 4 жыл бұрын
How to recover in smash bros: you up B, obviously.
@itsmechadjohann1234
@itsmechadjohann1234 4 жыл бұрын
PJiggles made me watch this:)
@hyperspace1342
@hyperspace1342 4 жыл бұрын
6:55 would be a great tip if I didn’t main lucas...
@firazahmed6892
@firazahmed6892 4 жыл бұрын
Anyone know what this music is called
@CollinA.Stewart
@CollinA.Stewart 4 жыл бұрын
Its called Takeoff by _91ultra.
@firazahmed6892
@firazahmed6892 4 жыл бұрын
@@CollinA.Stewart thnx bro
@dolphinvoltage3339
@dolphinvoltage3339 4 жыл бұрын
This is very useful but how do you like attack in air and get back to the stage
@ChiefBigNut
@ChiefBigNut 4 жыл бұрын
Dolphin Fun use an air attack and then input whatever recovery you want?
@dolphinvoltage3339
@dolphinvoltage3339 4 жыл бұрын
Dingeling Juice i know that i meant as in terms of battling with your opponent in the air and getting back to the stage
@ChiefBigNut
@ChiefBigNut 4 жыл бұрын
Dolphin Fun it depends on your character and recover. Consider using training mode at a fix damage and practice hitting them off and then going after them. Careful not going to deep or two far away, again, it depends on the character. E.g. game and Watch is god tier for hitting attacks off stage and recovering, but little Mac, well, he’s little Mac
@ffiiggyy
@ffiiggyy 4 жыл бұрын
@@ChiefBigNut Or just fight Level 9 CPUs for 400 hours until you see progress.
@ChiefBigNut
@ChiefBigNut 4 жыл бұрын
ffiiggyy T. Piggy that’s what I do 😂
@liamk9906
@liamk9906 4 жыл бұрын
Video is 10 minutes 1 second. Nice
@sageivu
@sageivu 4 жыл бұрын
If your main is kirby, you can leave
@cramorant9316
@cramorant9316 4 жыл бұрын
It is ironic that dr Mario is pretty bad at recovering
@Mo-fz1to
@Mo-fz1to 4 жыл бұрын
ooh perfect, 10 minutes 1 second.
@bowsermain7443
@bowsermain7443 3 жыл бұрын
When I searched how to recover plzzz put the hand cam aka just show a controller pressing up or a b etc
@haugamertran645
@haugamertran645 4 жыл бұрын
If your joker use your hook no problem
@seenit5yearsago732
@seenit5yearsago732 3 жыл бұрын
Wall jumps cannot be done on steep walls
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