How to Replace 2 Switches: 3-Way and Single Pole When You Have No Ground per NEC 2020

[@jamesburton247]

This is the Best Damn Simplified explanation ever Great Job Thanks a Million stopped the Video at the 8:45 mark and got to Work finishing the exact same Switch Replacement.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks so much James! Good job!

[@ElRebel]

As a first-time homeowner trying to learn how to fix up his house, your video is very helpful. Thank you!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Javier!

[@area503nycvlogs.4]

Same here🙄. Cuz here in the New York 🗽 area they want to charge you up to $300.00 just for the simple fact that they have a electricians license which I don’t really think it’s really needed if you know what you’re doing. I mean it’s just the way I look at it and disrespect to people who actually do have a license but I really think they’re savages. Not good 🤔🙄.

[@georgewshannon7634]

Keep up the great video contents Sparky! You are the best on KZbin!

[@rmiller6483]

I miss the video you had when you explained how to wire 3 way switches with the light and you explained everything in the best absolute detail as possible. Thanks for your great videos Bill...👍👍👍

[@SparkyChannel]

I might get it back. A viewer may have a copy of it and send it to me. Thanks!

[@davetrayford]

Thank you ! The information about lack of grounding in the junction box also applies to my house built in 1960 in the Piedmont of North Carolina.

[@RB-xv4si]

I think it’s important to explain for the guys just learning this that just because there is no grounding conductor, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the metal box and device yokes aren’t grounded. If the circuits were run in that old cloth NM cable, sure it’s not grounded. But if BX cable was used and the connections are good, everything should be grounded through the steel armor. And there are ways for checking this. It’s an important concept, I think.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent point, thanks!

[@chaser9363]

the common on a 3way is not always line. on the other end of the 3way it's the switch leg. and we always identify the travelers by twisting them together at the back of the box near the sheathing only about 3 or 4 twists.

[@harakiri881]

Your instruction is the best for me to replace 3 way switches.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@harakiri881]

@@SparkyChannel Today I replaced 5 sets of 3 ways without problem. I really appreciate your instruction!

[@spazchicken1]

Thank you ! Got this exact no ground / 3 way issue and that brand / type of switches I want to swap out with the old style ones 🙏

[@lgoamity]

Will need to check for grounding on some of my Grandmother's Outlets/Switches and consider GFCI and/or screwless covers as needed. I'm particularly concerned about one Metal Switch Plate in the Garage (which I think is Grounded) and another that I know isn't that I should install GFCI protection on...

[@maxheadroom8857]

Your garage is likely grounded if the property was built in the mid 50s and later. My home was built in 1955. The bath switch box, receptacle, the kitchen receptacles by the sink, the laundry room receptacle and light switch boxes to outdoor lights are grounded. My garage is detached, and all my garage electrical boxes are grounded per 1955 NEC code.

[@lgoamity]

​@@maxheadroom8857 Not sure what NEC code applied during construction of the Grandmother's home or was observed then (early 1950's Wisconsin)... Nor during several "updates"/expansions done since (guessing early 1960s into the mid-70's). Most of the original circuits were armoured cable allowing for grounding (but no dedicated grounding wire) via the metal boxes... But there was several additions/updates in early 60's using 14-2 NM wire (with no ground wire) so those specific circuits/boxes do need some added attention and probably some GFCI upgrades...

[@maxheadroom8857]

@@lgoamity there is a provision in the code that allows you to borrow a ground from another circuit on the same breaker. For example, if you have a bonded box in your bathroom, if there are ungrounded receptacles on the same breaker, you can run a 12 gauge ground wire from the unbonded metal box to the bonded metal box. You can legally use ground clips to secure the ground wire to an old metal box without a tapped hole for grounding screws. I have a few ungrounded outlets on a circuit with a grounded plug. I can clip a ground wire onto a bonded box and run a junction from my attic to the other boxes on the same circuit breaker. I have a circuit without any grounded plugs on it. However, I can borrow a ground from a grounded outlet box on another breaker because the breaker to the grounded outlet is on the same panel that the breaker to the ungrounded outlet is on. As long as the borrowed ground is continuous to the panel where the ungrounded outlet's breaker is on, it is legal per code. My home is in Southern California, Orange County. The county goes by the National Electrical Code that is current. NEC in 1955 required grounding on all outdoor light fixtures and outlets, switch boxes at outdoor exits, garage lights and outlets, kitchen outlets on the same wall as the sink, laundry room plugs next to the laundry sink, central heating, and all bathroom switch boxes and outlets. Homes built in 1964 required all outlets and lights be grounded in new construction. My best friend's father is an original owner of a house built on his property in 1964. The house's outlets are all 3 prong from the time it was built.

[@maxheadroom8857]

@@lgoamity I found this NEC regulation that allows you to share grounding: NEC CODE Article 250.130.C 1-4 allows fishing ground from neighboring circuit on same breaker panel. As I mentioned earlier, I will need to pull a wire from one of my circuits to ground some boxes in my home that are not bonded at this time. My breaker and meter panel is bonded to my cold water pipes. My garage is detached, and a separate ground wire is clamped to a cold water pipe below the garage. It leads to water spigots around the yard. My house has a raised foundation, so access to the water pipes and grounding is much easier. In older homes, it is common to find boxes with ungrounded NM and ungrounded UF cables being grounded to a cold water pipe nearby, with the pipe being bonded to the breaker box. It is important to have the home plumbing inspected as well to make sure the pipes are all metal, and that repairs done are not breaking the continuity of the grounding. If parts of the cold water pipes get separated by plastic pipes, you can run a 4 gauge jumper from the points of separation to restore the continuity of the bonding. 4 gauge wire will assure enough continuity to bond the ends of the separation between the metal pipes to carry any stray current back to the box. One day, when I repipe my home with copper pipe, I will need to redo my grounding in my garage to bond the ground to the new cold water pipe coming into my garage, or to dig under the garage to bond the wires to a new copper water line in my yard for water spigots. A few years ago, I updated my garage by replacing the lead receptacle with a GFCI, protecting the entire garage with it. Only 1 breaker powers my garage, so my lights are also on the GFCI. It actually works out, as 3 of my light fixtures are pull chain fixtures with grounded outlets in full use. Hopefully, some of your grandmother's electrical upgrades in the 60s used metal boxes rather than newly introduced plastic boxes. You should be able to fish a ground wire to a nearby grounded box if your breakers are mounted in the same breaker panel.

[@lgoamity]

@@maxheadroom8857 Was going to Comment that I probably would be unlucky and not have a nearby grounded box (on the other side of the same wall) on the same "breaker" (fuse) and with your newest post... I'd probably still be unlucky and have the ungrounded box happen to be wired to the Workshop Sub-Panel. While it does eventually end up to the same Main Fuse Box... Just my luck that probably wouldn't apply? Will investigate further and see how lucky I might be

[@stapeld]

Thanks for all your videos Bill. Very informative and I’ve learned a lot.

[@SparkyChannel]

Very welcome! Thanks so much!

[@1054Life]

No one sells plastic screws even though manuals always say to use them when there’s no ground. Thx for showing us how to use those fancy ‘screwless’ plates to stay safe and within code!

[@treering]

Sparky... I just found your videos, and I'm really enjoying them. Thank you, sir!

[@SparkyChannel]

Glad you like them! Welcome to Sparky Channel!

[@nathantmnguyen]

Here on Canada, many of the switches don't even have a ground terminal. The switches just ground via the mounting screws.

[@ashleymessick9742]

You can't use the white wire as a hot anymore? What if your in a predicament where you need to use it? Example: 3way two switches, but you can only get the travelers to one switch, and the other switch has the switch leg and hot. So you make the white wire the hot ( send the hot via the white wire) and the black and red your travelers. You can't do this anymore? I know you can't in certain states, but if you're in one where you can, can you still do this?

[@Sparky-ww5re]

Essentially the NEC requires an available neutral in the switch box because sometimes electronic switches are installed and require a neutral to work properly. However where multiple switches contol the same fixture, 3 ways and 4 ways , such that the fixture is visible from the single or combined switch locations, a neutral shall be required at one switch location. Meaning even in 2024, you are allowed to wire a three way set up with switch leg and power in same box aka dead end three way. However some jurisdictions require a neutral in EVERY switch box and will not allow dead end three ways unless you run a 4 conductor with ground cable.

[@SOMAnxg]

Worked on a "three" way hall switch. When I pulled the switch at the termination point on the circuit I tested the old non-grounded wires going into the box [replacing an old switch with a paddle switch] the only wire that was 'hot' was a red wire. I assumed the red wire was the 'line' wire. After connecting the other two wires [white & black] to the new switch I discovered the new switch and the old switch preceding that was connected to the switch I was working on were not functioning as they should. Since it was a 3 way switch I discovered the black wire showed no power because the preceding switch was turned off and the black wire should be the line wire and not red.

[@lunstee]

My instinct would have been to flag the white wire on the 3-way switch with the red tape rather than flag the black wire. This way, I'd just read the black wire as hot (equivalent to either the black or black flagged wire on the regular switch) and it goes to the black screw. The red and red flagged white wire are equivalent (both being red) as interchangeable travelers, and there is no unflagged white wire to be mistaken for a neutral. Would this be acceptable, or is there a reason to favour flagging things the way you did instead? Thanks!

[@oshtoolman]

wish I had seen this video last month! I just replaced a couple switches in my 1950's house, but used mounting covers with metal screws!!! Oh well. They arent to expensive to replace with non-metallic ones!!

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi! Well now you're up to code. Also, I think the screwless covers are really sharp!

[@josianrodriguez1249]

NICE DEMO, THANK YOU SPARKY FOR SHARING.

[@SparkyChannel]

No problem, thanks!

[@CadillacKenny]

I didn’t see you wire one switch to the other? That’s where I’m confused. I have a Light and a heater switch, and normally the light has to be on if you want heat. thats ok, but I don’t know if I bring a wire from one common to the other? Understand Bill?

[@joebenga787]

Great video as always, would like to see a video again about "How To Cut, Strip and Terminate RG6 Coaxial Cable" Thanks!

[@SparkyChannel]

Absolutely. That's an easy one and I can show it done with multiple brands of tools as well. I think it's an important skill for electricians.

[@EnjoyCalculus]

Could you not have used a tap to add a ground to the junction box?

[@garydudgeon]

An oldie but goodie Sparky .

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! Yes sir. It was from 2015. I was amazed when I was editing it how talkative I was back then. I edited out a lot of stuff that really didn't have to do with the project and lots of dead air too. And included some 2020 NEC. I included the intro though. LOL!

[@RAWms]

Just curious. Why do you trust your Greenlee to test voltage through the plate but use your Fluke with the plate off?

[@SparkyChannel]

It's because that particular Greenlee is very sensitive, much more sensitive than the Fluke. That makes the Greenlee better at sensing any hot and the Fluke better at determining which wire is hot.

[@wim0104]

@@SparkyChannel and it's not necessarily a brand thing: I have another model Fluke that *is* sensitive enough :-)

[@SparkyChannel]

@@wim0104 Yes, that's true. Both Fluke and Klein also make nice low voltage sensors as well.

[@UmHmm328]

Any danger in NOT screwing down any unused screw?

[@Eddy63]

Good to have that sexy intro back ... Great vid as usual ...

[@SparkyChannel]

I'll tell Michele that! :)

[@sotoedgar6]

Can you try finding the video you did about installing multiple gfci outlet receptacle inline with each other. Love your videos. Keep it up sparky!

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, I'll try thanks!

[@Bluesman57]

Another great video Bill. I have one question, All your newer videos are referencing the 2020 NEC® codebook. In Michigan we just adopted the 2017 NEC®, i think your in California (not 100% sure) have you already adopted the 2020 codebook? just curious.

[@SparkyChannel]

That is correct. Thanks Mark!

[@rezzle2457]

Hey Bill great video. I noticed both switches where 15 Amp rated , how many switches can the 15 amp breaker run on one circuit in your case?

[@wim0104]

a switch does not consume any power (if you make good connections ;-) ). The total Wattage of the lights might be more relevant. In Europe we alternate circuits between rooms, so one breaker cannot cause total darkness.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent answer wim0104, you beat me to it. Happy Easter to both of you!

[@aptpupil]

You can't use a white wire for a switch anymore? Does that mean you just have to mark it or you would need to use 14/3?

[@ClayGravil]

You have to have neutral in the switch box now. Yes you would bring 14/3 down if your power is coming from the ceiling. If your power is coming up into the box, then you use 14/2 still

[@njsongwriter]

@@ClayGravil But if you're already using 14/3 for a 3 way switch then you would need 14/4? Where do you find that? Or can you just run two cables of 14/2, one bringing in the black hot and white neutral and the other bringing in the travelers... One being black and the other would be white but could be painted red. Is that kosher?

[@Sparky-ww5re]

Yes you could use 2 runs of 14/2 if you don't have 14/4 available. What I like to do although isn't required per se, is use red and blue phase tape to re-identify the black and white respectively, for the travellers because a 14/4 cable contains a black, red, blue and white, plus the ground obviously.

[@illestofdemall13]

Hi, Bill. Just curious, did you test the common to see it was line rather than load? Thanks.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, definitely!

[@luisnieves7183]

Hey Bill after all this time still using the channel lock diagonal cutters thats amazing!!!And is the greenlee voltage detector good quality?I use the fluke same as yours,or the kleins.Thanks a lot for this amazing video!!!

[@SparkyChannel]

I love my little Chanellocks. LOL! Yes, that Greenlee is a very nice low voltage detector. Thanks Luis!

[@luisnieves7183]

@@SparkyChannel thank you Bill for your reply!Stay healthy my friend and looking forward for more videos of Sparky Channel!!!

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

MARKINGS?

[@carloscarlos7462]

Thank you very much. 👍

[@SparkyChannel]

No worries!

[@Darkseid001]

i wonder if there is a ground wire

[@markglonek490]

Very helpful thank you

[@tii2015]

DAMN good instruction!

[@TheWatchFrogs]

God bless you sparky :)

[@SparkyChannel]

GBY as well!

[@MrTooTechnical]

Cool. Do u still do pull ups??

[@SparkyChannel]

Not lately. I really want to get back to it though. :)

[@pattognozzi]

Great video!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Patrick!

[@Marcel_Germann]

Interesting that you still got some of the on/off switches. Most manufacturers here in Germany no longer produce such on/off-switches, instead we use the 3-way everytime even if there's only one switch for the light fixture. Just connect the load to one of the terminals for the travelling wires (brass), the line/hot to the common (black), and the other terminal for a travelling wire (second brass) will get no wire of course. So actually no need for the simple on/off switches. The manufacturers did this because it is cheaper for them, that caused that they manufacture more 3-pole switches, causing a price drop for them. You can still get on/off switches, but they're more expensive than a 3-way here. These screwless frames look very fragile. It seems you can put this on and off for two or three times and then one of the plastic strips holding the cover in place will break. I remember, in my grandparents house were old on/off toggle switches installed in some rooms. That was the international version I suppose, instead of on and off in the on position there was a black dot visible on the toggle when in the on-position. The whole thing was made of porcelain, today there's only one manufacturer making covers out of porcelain, and this is almost unaffordable. More than 70 USD for a switch and almost 40 USD for an outlet...

[@SparkyChannel]

Wow! That's very interesting. Thanks Marcel!

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@mernok2001 In my house from the 1950s was a wild mixture of switches and outlets from the 1950s, 60s and 70s. All switches were rated for 10A. There were different materials available, porcellain, bakelite and melamine resin. The internal material where the contact were embedded to was unglazed porcellain on all switches here. But they still manufacture such switches, for example these classics (in this case a cutaway to see the internals): www.bauhandwerk.de/imgs/100637889_749aece88d.jpg Or completely porcellain: www.produktgesellschaft.de/en/switch-systems/over-centre-rotary-switch-alternation-porcelain.html?info=463

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@mernok2001 Rating is mostly 10/16A, 10A are permanent 16A for a short time. But actually there's no definition of short time.

[@mernok2001]

@@Marcel_Germann Do you have any information what kind of wiring was used in the nazi era in Germany?Copper or aluminium?

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@mernok2001 Afaik copper. The thing was, at that time there weren't that much appliances in the houses which required electric energy. In most cases a radio and electric light. In better homes were also electric irons, but average people still had the old ones which you had to warm up on a coal or wood fired stove. Some people had a kitchen cooker with a single heating plate. In West-Germany, even in the direct post-war era, they used copper wires. But everything they had at hand. For example at that time the hot was black and the PEN was normally red. But the lighting fixture of my bathroom was different: Hot was black and the PEN was violet. The installation was single wires in conduit. In the staircase one light fixture had textile insulated wires instead of PVC, it was all installed at the same period of time! When the wire was too short, the twisted the new one on the old, insulated it with electricians tape (the old resin impregnated textile one) and pulled it completely into the conduit with that "knot" in it. In West-Germany aluminium was never a thing, but in most east-german installations it's still there. In most cases 2.5mm² aluminium, from the point of conductivity it's the same as 1.5mm² copper we used here for this.

[@cjkokay]

I still get confused by American wiring terms. The three way switch is actually two way (yes the brtiz, Aussie and kiwis have it right). The switch can only be on/on. Hint from common the power can only travel to either throw (SPDT). It's clearly not travelling three different directions!

[@chaser9363]

i've used plastic screws before and haven't had any problem with them stripping out. you just can't try to over tighten them. but why would you want to tighten them so tight anyway, they're only holding on a little cover plate, not a door or something.🤔🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@SparkyChannel]

OK, thanks!

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

Upright

[@borkingdoggouwuuwuw]

Not knowing if my house is grounded so i just replaced every receptacle with gfci ones, and then screwless wallplates

[@ronaldoleksy8264]

Remember being taught in school that a single pole toggle when it is upside down the (On)spells out (No) when it is installed upside down lol

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Ronald!

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

decora plus

[@SparkyChannel]

Yep.

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

KINDS

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

CUTS

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

MARKS

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

MARKINGS

[@RobertLeBlancPhoto]

I love my Klein Romex strippers too! :)

[@SparkyChannel]

Right on!

[@wlipman]

C'mon. You're working with a metal box. I have a 1951 house in which the equipment grounds all were bundled and secured to the cable clamp, thereby effectively bonding the box to the rest of the system. With the power on, test hot to box, with a wiggy. If the circuit completes, you have a grounded box. Any self-grounding switch or outlet would suffice.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Walter. I did check and there was no bonding on this particular box. You're correct it is best to check. Thanks!

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

CUT

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

CONNECT THE BLACK WIRES

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

decora plus

[@juicyplayyzroblox390]

KINDS