How to troubleshoot a starting system (bad ignition switch) - Dodge Neon

This case study I did on a body shop vehicle covers a lot of starter circuit theory and operation, as well as practical testing methods, making it great viewing for anyone working in the field. Even though the subject is a Neon, the information I cover will apply to all starting systems and standard relays. I also get to show the power of a simple test light, and how valuable it can be in electrical troubleshooting.
Engine Performance Diagnostics chapter 3
Symptoms
- engine does not crank
- “FUSE” message on dashboard
Fix
- replace faulty ignition switch
Tests shown
- using a wiring diagram to analyze a starter circuit
- how to determine if a circuit is power or ground side switched
- understanding PCM inputs for starter control
- how to test for main power and solenoid power at the starter
- how to verify your test light is making good power/ground contact
- how to check a basic four pin relay with a test light
- how to check an ignition switch for starter control
- performing an ignition switch bypass with a test light
Tools used
- lab scope (a simple DMM may be used)
- incandescent test light
Playlist
- (Chapter 3) Transistors, Solenoids, Computer Controlled Output Testing
• (Chapter 3) Transistor...
Related videos
- How to test a starter motor (no crank from a bad block ground) - Nissan
• How to test a starter ...
- No Crank Troubleshooting (engine does not crank) - Jeep
• No Crank Troubleshooti...
- How to troubleshoot a no crank problem (94 Toyota Celica)
• How to troubleshoot a ...
- Engine does not crank (bad block ground) - Cadillac
• Engine does not crank ...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

[@martinguitarhd28]

Anyone who has not got the book i say get it you will not be disappointed it ties in really well with the videos and is great to fall back on.I have learned more From these video's and Paul's book than i ever imagined .Have joined his premium channel as well as there are more excellent video's like this on there .I am from the UK and all this material can be used around the globe.Glad i found "Scanner Danner " as he is a TOP TEACHER !! Thank you Paul .

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

+martinguitarhd28 thanks so much! would you mind putting this comment here too? www.scannerdanner.com/customer/feedback#add-comment

[@martinguitarhd28]

+ScannerDanner Premium Done .

[@ScannerDanner]

+martinguitarhd28 thank you!

[@fordsuperduty3117]

this guy really knows what he is doing. he doesn't just guess and replace parts like most of these idiots we see. we need more men like you. keep up the good work. bless you man

[@Mebob2001]

Man i wish i had you as an instructor in pre employment, your students are lucky you get REALLY detailed

[@standonright4265]

very simple, effective theory and practical trouble shooting on this type of issue, apreciated you are a great teacher, i know its an old video but works like a silver bullet.good luck!

[@ScannerDanner]

thank you so much!

[@AUTOREPAIRGUIDE]

You have one of the best instructional videos i have ever seen. With the knowledge i have gained from you, i am able to feel confident as a technician.

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks man, I have a ton more like this, keep watching. I really appreciate your comment

[@jarinwilson9539]

I just wanted to point out some variables. If you bypass the ignition switch, understand that the vehicle may crank, but depending on circuit design, it may NOT start. We are all here to learn and I care about your viewers just as much as you do Paul. Do your homework and your research is my point.

[@money123131]

Hey dan I'am a retired heavy duty diesel mechanic been mechanic over 50 years,and I still enjoy learning from your videos keep up the good work.Life is not so boring now.

[@northpostman]

Hi Paul, I have to tell you as a fellow technician and instructor how much I enjoy your video's. I recommend your channel to my students, and occasionally show your videos in the classroom. Your down to earth style and real world approach makes it easy for students to understand and relate to what I am teaching them in the classroom. I was a tech for 30 years before I .became a teacher and you really reflect through your videos how it really is out on the shop floor. Thank you for this channel

[@ScannerDanner]

+northpostman thank you so much! Contact me if your interested in material for your class. I work with schools all the time (discounts and instructor material)

[@brucegladish5139]

I just want to compliment you on an excellent class. I had this exact problem on the exact same car. 2000 Plymouth Neon. I followed your steps exactly and oddly enough ended up with the same result. The starter switch was bad (or maybe not). I purchased the switch and took steering column apart. I found that the actuator pin was broken. Apparently a very common problem on this model. With pin broken I can't say if I replaced a perfectly good switch that the broken actuator couldn't quite turn all the way to start or not. The point is your video took me right to the problem and prevented me from loading the parts cannon. Thanks very much

[@ScannerDanner]

+Bruce Gladish awesome! Thank you

[@PyroD23]

This video is simply awesome, definitely better than any other instructional video I have ever watched for trying to fix a car. Good Job

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

Thanks so much! I have so many more too that I'm sure you will like.

[@nemanjadzombic6101]

Perfect video by any means. Editing, sound, camera thoroughnes... everything. This was my first impression on the first seeing of this wideo (and most of his videos). Now after watching it again with calm head I can judge it objectively. And it's just perfect. There are other very god automotive channels but paul knows how to keep our attention. I don't know if he has obsessive compusive disorder or what, that force him to be perfect, but what ever the reason is, there is no better channel for engine performance diagnostics.

[@ScannerDanner]

Wow man, haven't had a comment like this before. Lol on the OCD, I am a little OCD. Cars have made me that way. I've had 17 years teaching on this subject so i just have a lot of practice. But thank you so much for this compliment. It' motivating to keep doing what I do.

[@nemanjadzombic6101]

Have colleagues who are in the field for 20 years or so, not knowing what voltage drop is... So 17 years of teaching is not excuse ;)

[@larryrogers7259]

So glad I found your video on no crank, no start on dodge neon. Was able to versify bad ignition switch by doing the bypass probing test at the switch . problem solved. Thanks for the great video.

[@ScannerDanner]

Awesome, glad it helped!

[@alexsafri2285]

Hi ScannerDanner. I wanted to thank you for your video and tell you and your viewers that you helped me fix my car (2007 Pontiac Montana) with this video. My montana started acting weird about two weeks ago. All of a sudden it wouldn't crank and start. First time it happened after turning the key 10 times it cranked and started. Car was fine for two days then it did it again. No crank no start. Again I managed to get it started within 5-10 tries. The next day the car stalls at idle. But was able to restart it first try. Next day I pull into the gas station, buy a coffee, come out no crank no start. 50+ tries nothing. I got it towed to my mechanic and they ended up replacing the starter. (They never tested anything other than battery, just assumed starter right off the bat) With the new starter it was still not cranking or starting. I was suspicious but after 3 tries it fired up. The mechanic's explanation was "while they replaced the starter the battery must of ran low". I went home, parked the car. The next night I was about to go somewhere, no crank no start. 20+ tries, nothing. I'm very frustrated at this point. Next morning no crank no start, 4th try it cranks and starts. I drove down to my mechanic and tell them what has been happening, they have no clue. Their answer is "well it starts now" come back when the problem shows. In other words get it towed again. That's when I started researching,and found your video. I went and bought a test light, took apart the dash to have easy access to the harness, and waited for the car to do it again. The car started stalling out at idle a lot. And finally the no crank no start happened again. Did what you showed on your video. Test light to red, light on, test light to yellow while attempting to start, nothing. As I'm doing this (4-5 times) all of a sudden the test light lights up and the car starts. So I poked some more at the yellow gently wiggling it and car doesn't crank and doesn't start. Then I hold the key to start no crank no start, then as I'm holding it I poke around the yellow wire with the test light and bam. It starts. It was indeed a faulty ignition switch. I replaced it myself. 32 dollars including tax. That's what my mechanic was supposed to do in the first place. But instead I paid 300 for the tow and the starter. I've also read that a faulty ignition switch can cause a vehicle to stall, and since both problems came within 2 days apart that this will also fix my stalling issue. I will drive around for now and if it doesn't stall for a week I'll post the results here. Either ways I definitely had a bad ignition switch and I figured that out thanks to YOUR video. I fixed it with YOUR help. The fact that my mechanic never run any of the tests you did infuriates me. 300 dollars vs 32 dollars. I saw multiple similar videos before yours but you actually explained it on a level that I actually understood everything you said. I really appreciate your video because my unreliable car was stressing me out big time. And thanx to you I diagnosed and fixed a problem that a certified mechanic apperently couldn't... 😊

[@ScannerDanner]

Unfortunately what you're describing is all too common in my field. Nice job on the fix! BTW you fixed your stalling issue too. These are common failure items and the symptoms are exactly as you described.

[@alexsafri2285]

ScannerDanner So the problem is back. Exact same thing with brand new ignition switch. What are the odds that I purchased a bad switch? Car stalled once, and did no start no crank once. I started it up by poking at the yellow wire while holding key in start position. So at this point if I understand it correctly I either purchased a malfunctioning ignition switch, or there is a problem with the ignition switch harness?

[@alexsafri2285]

Or do I stress about the ignition cylinder at this point? Key isn't sticky or hard to remove or anything along those lines, and it does turn smoothly like it always did

[@ScannerDanner]

sounds like a harness issue. Tighten the pins on that main ignition switch connector as a starting point

[@alexsafri2285]

ScannerDanner I figured at this point it's pretty narrowed down 😊So the problem is definitely in that general area since I can get it to start, and also get it not to crank just by poking at the yellow. I will mess around with it in the daylight and definitely keep you and everyone posted :-) My problem may help others. And thank you so much for your ideas! 👍

[@Micscience]

Paul this was a very good video. I specifically liked how you demonstrated how the PCM can effect the starting circuit when trying to bypass the ignition and start the car. I think I learn more from your actual videos of you doing the work than when it is all theory I think because there is a visual memory that sticks with me however the wiring schematic design in the beginning was very helpful as well. Thanks for taking the time to share these techniques I really do appreciate it.

[@mindvampsminecraft1102]

this video has helped me tremendously... both in my vehicle troubleshooting, and with my understanding of circuits and how they actually work... and I just wanted to say "thank you"!

[@ScannerDanner]

thank you!

[@spelunkerd]

Great job, Paul. Last year I posted a video of a no crank no start in a vehicle with an intermittent bad starter solenoid. It's amazing how well your video above dovetails with mine. Different side of the circuit, but the same logical pattern of gathering evidence before a decision.

[@venomousinc9069]

Thank you for this video, really helped step by step to fix a friends car we had come in. it was the lock/cylinder and how you showed where you tapped the line into really helped!

[@ScannerDanner]

+Venomous Inc awesome! Thanks for watching. You can thank me by giving this video a thumbs up

[@matttrotta57]

I think I can almost hot wire a car now. But seriously you touched on many subjects here. Thank you.

[@mostlymoparih5682]

Excellent video. It helped me with my van. Oh course it would have been better if had listened to what you said in the first couple of minutes of the video. Turns out the ground was loose on the starter (2001 Chrysler T&C). Bolt that holds the starter to the block has a bolt off the back of it and a nut connects the ground to it. I hooked a wire to the solenoid and jumped to positive battery and just got a click and didn't realize I had a starter or ground problem. A friend told me if your jumping from solenoid to battery the starter should crank. In the process of putting in a new starter I found the loose ground so I corrected that to see if the starter was still good and it was. I did make sure my test light had a good connection though. I should have gone to your Nissan video. In fact I'm going to go view it now. Thank you very much.

[@rustypotatos]

Well freaking a man thank you so much for these diagnostic theory classes wowowow thank you so much

[@chrisbode7173]

Hi Paul, my Chrysler Voyager model 2008 would't start. Searching the web I found your video which gave me the right information to solve the problem even though the electrical system is not completely equal to the Dodge Neon. It appeared that the connection to the starter relay was bad. Thanks very much for the clear and thorough explanation!!

[@ScannerDanner]

+Chris Bode awesome thank you for the feedback and good job on the fix!

[@jarinwilson9539]

Yellow wire as done is this video. The reason for this is that the Dark Blue wire gets power from the ignition switch. After going through a fuse(I believe fuse #9) it turns into a Light Green/Black wire that energizes the ASD relay. There is a splice where that wire also controls the Fuel Pump Relay. Without those to circuits being active, you will be missing a lot of crucial systems. Power to the ignition coil, fuel injectors, alternator voltage regulator, O2 sensor heaters, etc. Again, that

[@elplateado3965]

scanner Daner, you are the best. you are the man. not only you teach the theory but ypu makes us thimk and try to figure it out. you are far the best referral in you tube...PD. I hope i could explain my self, in a way you get the idea.

[@ScannerDanner]

+El Plateado 39 thanks so much!

[@kurtduerrduerr1696]

You are a good explainer,teacher.thznk you

[@wyattoneable]

Thank you, on to the next one. The learning continues.

[@ScannerDanner]

that stinks, I would love to have you. it seems my on-line "students" are very passionate about learning and that makes for a great class for me

[@geronimoescobedo6960]

You are the best teacher I have the privilege to learn from!! 👍

[@troostben]

Great video! Easy wiring diagram though! I wish all diagnostics was like this!

[@JOHNPHUFNAGEL]

hey man I want to say great vids so far every one that I've seen has been good.. I'm sure that you already know this but for the people watching this that don't know. when you hooked your test light to battery + and jumped the switch and the car cranked over IF the current needed was greater than the test light can deliver the test light just would light up and the relay would not have energized

[@GRUSSNewton]

Some really great advice given in this video, it's very important to check the basics for your self even though it's previously been else where. I always start fresh if I come half way into a job that someone else has started but can't finish. I got caught out once purely because the guy had said he had checked all the fuses.... Never again! Start from fresh every time.

[@ScannerDanner]

couldn't have said it better myself.Thank you!

[@rustypotatos]

That was so cool 22:36 24:30 thank you for sharing

[@ammar0alkashif]

Thanks, another GREAT video, thanks for taking time to make & upload videos, I learn a lot from your videos even though itis for advance level, Greeting from Middle East...

[@padambishowkarma4122]

Thank for this video it is very helpful

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks John, that is correct and also why I didn't use an LED test light.

[@steelblackface]

I love these vids im learning soooo much

[@ScannerDanner]

So glad you're here! When you want more, come sign up for ScannerDanner Premium on my website where I invite you into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html

[@brakedd]

you're the man! thanks scannerdanner!

[@jophetvlogtv1874]

nice video sir thank you for sharing your knowledge hopefully i develop my troubleshooting skills thank you so much sir...

[@khaniftikhar9225]

Good demonstration

[@jarinwilson9539]

I don't know why I keep coming back to this video but for those DIYers and the folks reading through the comments, you can also jump the starter directly with a screwdriver(obviously proceed with caution...do not do it if the smell of gasoline is present.) Also, access to the starter may be impossible so start at the relay after a battery check has been performed. For those of you questioning the screwdriver trick, it will quickly rule out the load side of the starting circuit, if it does in fact crank. However, if it does not, both the control circuit and load circuit are still under suspicion.

[@sara78130]

look he lost power he put the test light on battery + then give the power to yalow wire then car start

[@jarinwilson9539]

Another variable to point out is this...On this particular starting system on this Neon, the PCM is grounding the starter relay coil. On SOME systems(emphasis on SOME) the PCM is NOT in direct control of the starter relay coil. Because of this, the key does not have to been on in order for the ignition bypass test to work. The Neutral Safety switch, often mounted externally to the transmission/transaxle grounds the starter relay coil. As long as the transmission is in park or neutral, the relay

[@JohnzCarz]

Great job!

[@neilwilliams8608]

My son has a 2000 Mercedes S500 V-8. A so called mechanic told him it would cost $2000 to fix it. He said that there is no power to the ignition switch.Can't he trace the power source? It could be just a fuse or a relay or, even a bad ignition switch!? I wish I knew 1/2 as much as you do. Awesome video. Thanks a lot.

[@jarinwilson9539]

Very easy to bypass the PCM. Get a pin out chart and locate that tan wire(ground side switched) that controls starter relay coil. Back probe it with some cheap $1.99 Walmart sold T-pins and jump it to ground with a jumper wire. Re-install the relay and put the ignition in the start position. You would do this of course if you were missing pcm ground control to starter coil. If you do it at the computer itself, this would also tell you that the tan wire is NOT open.

[@jitomingo2000]

First of all thank you for all your videos and taking your time to share your knowledge and want people to learn but out of curiosity. Why you dont like using a power probe 3?

[@Mark1944089]

I like you're videos brother.

[@ScannerDanner]

yes it is a monthly subscription to Mitchell On-Demand will do on the passlock stuff as I encounter them

[@dantracy4291]

Thanks Scanner Danner is I am a technician myself of 31 years myself and you helped me diagnosis what I thought was a complicated problem and it turned out to be that fuse number 9

[@retroguitarmaster]

if you ever get the opportunity, please show us how to diagnose a problem with the charging system or alternator. great video, thanks

[@riotrzr]

Awesome explanation. My issue on my 05 neon is the lower left terminal is my s wire, upper left is ignition (gets 12v when cranked), top right is 12v hot, bottom right is tan as confirmed from the under side of pdc. When the car is powered, there is no ground and have the neutral safety switch jumped. Something isn't right because when I jump top right (12v hot) to bottom left. It cranks. Basically my 2 lower wires are swapped from your diagram and not providing ground. I'm banging my head on the wall lol

[@dreamer2355]

Great video! :)

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks man, will do

[@vincebauer4777]

power probe love that tool

[@jarinwilson9539]

The tan wire could not be shorted to ground if you are missing that ground control for the starter relay coil control. It would HAVE to be either an open tan wire or an open low side coil driver inside the pcm. One huge variable to point out is that yes, you can bypass any ignition switch and force the starter to crank the engine, that does NOT mean the vehicle will start. On some of these Dodges/Chryslers/Jeeps, you would also have to jump power to a Dark Blue wire while jumping power to that

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks man! Paul

[@kpwp5496]

This is a great video! I have a 01 town and country with same no crank issue. There is no power from ignition yellow wire when key is in start. Also no power from the red wire to the ignition switch. The power fuse checks okay to the switch. The starter cranks when by passing the ignition switch as seen in your video. How do I trace the power wire to the ignition switch?

[@Marivvan]

Hi Mr.Paul , Thank you ( Marwan )

[@rhdtv2002]

Maestro!!

[@fekaduzewidu9673]

very important part for drivers .

[@ScannerDanner]

yea, that was my fault. I wasn't insinuating that that would be an alternative on this design. I was just talking about the switched side of the relay only. I should have made that more clear. I did say right after that, that the relay would only have one power feed in that case (and it would be on the control side only). good catch on that, hopefully I didn't mislead everyone with that statement too much. Thanks!

[@tevitagordon6374]

thanks for great vids.my ford falcon was'nt cranked then i checked both volts at relay side(30/85) were ok.if can swap relay or pcm ?

[@ScannerDanner]

yes and I have a video planned to address this issue as I get asked this question a lot.

[@ScannerDanner]

ok, i'll try :-) the "fuse" indicator on the dash would be an instrument cluster message. not sure if it was a message received from the PCM or BCM or if it was just the cluster itself that recognized a fault. After looking at the diagram again, it would have to be a run circuit that was also having some contact problems in that ignition switch for that issue to be recognized. I don't see how it would be the start circuit, there are two different wires that are hot in start though.

[@ScannerDanner]

thank you

[@ScannerDanner]

agree 100% thanks

[@ChicoDeon]

YOU ARE THE MAN

[@ScannerDanner]

I see all the comments and appreciate it very much. Thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

best I can do at this point

[@jarinwilson9539]

Relays, the place where the low current carrying coil side control(from a module) and the high amperage carrying load(starter motor) meet for a hot date, lol. That is how I generally attack wiring diagrams control vs. load, power vs. ground. Obviously if lets say a condenser fan is running all the time, it would be reasonable to say the load portion is good, however it is running ALL THE TIME, emphasis on time. What dictates when it should be operating? The control side of the circuit.

[@Mark1944089]

I changed my Oil on my 92 Buick Century today brother.

[@efrencerda5459]

Great explanation,., What is the signal come in to computer to put ground of starter relay ?

[@ihabphelobos7455]

Professional 👍👍👍

[@MichaelMartinez-kg7uw]

would it matter taking a test light to battery positive and checking the ground side at the relay for circuit integrity?

[@BuggysTowJam]

I'd really like to see something similar to this video but on a newer dodge. Example 08 nitro that has tipm. Mitchell wiring diagram shows electronics inside tipm with starter coil driver going to pin 85 on starter relay. Pin 86 starter relay goes to pcm. Pin 30 starter relay B+ fuse J17. Pin 87 starter relay goes to starter solenoid. In this situation you have a pcm and tipm. How are you to know which is power and which is ground on the control side of the starter relay? When one end goes into pcm and the other goes into tipm? This particular vehicle has an intermittent issue with no crank. With my u activate tool and key in run position i can start it. And after i put starter relay back in. You're able to drive the vehicle, however you don't have any rpm, temp guage, and there are several lights on esp srs etc. You can shut it off and some times it will start now with the key and everything returns to normal. And other times nothing no crank and all dash lights illuminated. I've checked all grounds under battery by abs module left kick panel and block ground all good. I checked power and grounds at pcm all good. I checked power and grounds at tipm all good. Only thing i can assume is the solid state electronics which has starter coil driver inside of it is flaking out. But being new to this field and not knowing the variables of this tipm if I'm making the right call. Because i can't test the solid state electronics. I really hope you get one like I'm describing. I'd really like to see your approach to see if i went about my approach the right way.

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks man

[@peacepeace8739]

Can we physically provide ground to the computer controlled relay and turn the engine over while having the ignition switch off? If not why?

[@jarinwilson9539]

coil is grounded. When is Park/Neutral, the N.O. switch is closed providing a path to ground. Being that this is a switch, it also can be bypassed very easily.

[@shimmy6039]

you're the best

[@BlackBlade0001]

I am unable to get the starter to crank, I have power on the load side of the starter and when key gets turned to crank position, I get power to the S post of the starter but not even a click comes from the starter. I can jump the hot terminal to ground and spin up the starter, but again even when key is turned to crank while I jump it, the starter spins up but does not throw the pinion forward to engage the flywheel. This is a 2005 3.4L Impala. I have just swapped out the transmission with another one from a 3.8L (same year). If the PCM was going to not allow the engine to start, I would think you would not be able to see power on the S post, correct? Which leaves me at a loss as to what the issue is?? Any pointers greatly appreciated!

[@foreverwood1963]

Scanner another great video. I'm still trying to find the problem with my wife's 2004 acura TL. It too was no start all lights on horn loud battery has good voltage 12.6v. I initially thought it was the starter and had even removed it. Later bench tested it and it was good. I was able to crank it the same way through a feed to the solenoid. Here's the difference in mine though. When I go to the starter relay and test for constant power I find none. At first I thought it was possible I had the wrong relay so i sent a very small amount of power through the solenoid wire with the relay off and it was the correct relay. It's hard to see the labels on this car its in a horrible spot. So without a schematic I was puzzled as to where to go next. I disconnected the clutch switch yesterday and found no power there either. The dash lights up normally. The relay coil had 123 ohms on it and the switch side barely one ohm. There is on thing that occurred to me in listening to your lecture. The anti theft system. Normally when the battery on this car is disconnected, once you replace it, it alarms loudly. That did not happen no alarm at all. So now I have to decide what's next. I'd love to see a schematic like you had there and also try to find what controls the alarming when the battery is reconnected.

[@ScannerDanner]

Here you go my friend www.eautorepair.net/marketing/default.asp?VID=&Count=Y $20 will get you a 1 month pass for your car and it will be the exact same diagrams I use.

[@foreverwood1963]

Thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

no, it was actually for that same circuit. with the ignition switch being the problem, essentially the PCM would see the same thing as if the fuse was blown.

[@UKev1]

Thanks for that Paul, interesting, how does the PCM know the difference between a 'blown fuse' or a bad circuit in this case. How does it differentiate between that and the ignition just being left switched on and no attempt to start the engine?

[@elizabethjansen2684]

Any ideas in 2000 neon dash lights flicker and once it died while driving, took it in and it was ok for about a year but they didn't touch the ignition system. Replaced the relay after I went to go somewhere and absolutely nothing, no lights dash or cranking. Wire from battery was fired on one end friend clipped it off and it ran fine for awhile.

[@richardcournoyer1473]

Question 2003 lincoln towncar I changed out my ignition switch thinking that was the problem ....it was not the problem . I also can crawl under car and jump the starter off the positive post of starter to start post so i know starter battery , starter and soleniod work that is why i changed ignition switch. does this leave me with a pcm issue?

[@jarinwilson9539]

LT/GRN wire controls the coils of both the ASD and Fuel Pump Relay. The Dark Green/Orange wire is the output from the ASD relay(feeds injectors, etc) So basically you would be cranking the engine over and you would have NO spark and No fuel. The splice I previously mentioned I believe also goes to the transmission relay.

[@sivucit]

hi, once again awe some video, looking and waiting for your videos for past 2 to 3 weeks .. have question, if Cam or Crank sensor is bad, on some cars, i assume it wont even send ground to starter solenoid( i mean the PCM will not provide ground going with this example), is my assumption right. I assume that PCM will not send pulse to igniter when cam or crank sensor is malfunctioning, is my 2 understanding right, please

[@ScannerDanner]

lots of variable here. start with checking the ignition switch for it sticking. then look carefully at the positive battery terminal to the starter. make sure it is not partially shorted to ground. I have seen this cause the starter to stay engaged but this would not cause it to not start. you may have two separate problems

[@Mark33090]

Great video. Only question I have is why did the dash show a fuse error if the fuse was fine?

[@ScannerDanner]

and I like your avatar and channel page!!!!

[@Mahigeer1]

I just started to view your recordings and find them very useful for an old certified mechanic, who has been out of professional auto repair for some times now. Thank you for sharing. On this particular video in frame 26:19, you show an alternative relay ground with blue lines. It seems that circuitry would cause a massive short from battery plus to ground. Perhaps you meant to draw it on the control side (coil) rather the line (power) side? Did I misunderstand your explanation?

[@UKev1]

Hi Paul, I have done the same work as yourself for over thirty years, It's interesting to see the 'FUSE' warning on the dash which turned out to be a 'red herring'. Was that for another circuit on the vehicle, or was there a control unit monitoring that circuit for starting even though there was nothing on the circuit diagram to that effect? Kev

[@view4me24]

Hi ScannerDanner I wanted to know if a Pico Scope 2204 could be used to do the test you do on your vids. or do i need the 4000 model ? Thanks.

[@estrelladelnorte1308]

i wonder if the bad ignition switch was the original problem of the accident , as you mentioned that it came from a body shop. I had this problem before on a 1997 honda that i had , the car did had a recall but it was just easier for me to get the part a replace it my self. switch was getting dropped while driving an shuting cars off . and bang!!!!

[@omarG19100]

Hey hows it goin? I have a 02 dodge stratus DOHC/2.4 cyl, and sometimes when i go to crank it. theres nuttin for about 11/2 sec(meanwhile im holding it in crank) then it will crank over. do you think the starter is going? I replaced the plugs, and checked the coil towers for corrosivness but found none, and I have a brand new batt.

[@projectA91]

Hi I have a 2002 dodge neon, and I've been having a starting issues with it. Its very odd because there are times when I start it and it turns on like there's nothing wrong. And then most times when I try to start it, nothing happens and it doesn't even crank, please help, what could be the possible reasons why it does that its so frustrating.

[@richardkalule8371]

Hi Paul,thanks for the good work I have been wacthing your vidoes just to be up-to-date with fixing stuff.Im a handy-jack of all trades.today Im gonna need your help with my Lexus RX300, firstly, it can`t start. i cleaned the IAC,changed the solenoid terminals now if I start it cranks but doesnt turn off, until i pull the baterry off. I need your help badly.

[@brakedd]

I'm somewhat confused by using the test light to energize the control side of the relay to complete the circuit and start the car. Is the test light serving the same purpose as a jumper wire in this instance?

[@ScannerDanner]

the two channel pico would do you just fine!

[@One2OneOK]

Thanks for the reply on that Paul, I was intrigued myself on that point that Kev had made. There was no obvious way the engine PCM could differentiate between 'Ignition On' and 'Engine Cranked Over'. There doesn't appear to be any CAN bus on the system anywhere either! I think this could go down as a mystery! Keep up the good work it's appreciated by us all! Good man.

[@MegaMino92]

No fender covers?! lol good vid

[@danielwarren6845]

I have a vehicle with this starting system which looks like it's not being grounded by the PCM. The voltage from the pcm fluctuates between 1.8v and 2.4v with the key on and when I try to crank it I get battery voltage on that wire at the pcm (Coming from the ignition switch) would you say that was a shorted driver, and what may have caused that.

[@danielwarren6845]

Sorry I meant 0.18 and 0.24volts

[@ScannerDanner]

No but I did poke a small hole in the wires with my test light. While I will agree this isn't the best method, with it being an interior part, there is no concern of corrosion. In fact not more than a few millimeters away was the uninsulated terminal contacts. It would have been better to touch my test light there instead, just couldn't get the right angle.