How TRIVIUM's Matt Heafy REALLY Feels about THE CRUSADE

Matt Heafy of Trivium spoke to Primordial Radio presenter Pete Bailey back in 2020 re-visiting The Crusade for a special one-off podcast.
In the conversation, the guys talk about the lead-up to The Crusade following the explosion of Ascendancy, how they had to deal with bullying issues and how the album has shaped who they are as a band today.
00:00 - Intro
02:10 - Following On From The Ascendancy Album
07:16 - Trivium At Download Festival 2005
09:57 - Writing The Crusade In 6 Weeks
13:11 - Is The Crusade Trivium's Most Important Album?
15:39 - Trivium Being Compared To Metallica
20:56 - Dealing With Bullying & Being Bottled On Stage
25:19 - How Metal Culture Has Changed
27:17 - The Black Crusade Tour
28:19 - Would Trivium Re-Record The Crusade?
30:38 - Matt's Favourite Tracks From The Crusade
34:01 - Playing The Crusade Tracks Live
36:28 - Trivium To The Rats Lyrics
39:04 - Final Thoughts
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[@PrimordialRadio]

This was without doubt one of the most enjoyable chats I've had in recent years, massive shout out to Matt! How do you feel about The Crusade now with hindsight? Help support the channel by subscribing here - smarturl.it/sub-primordial 👊

[@Rygabo]

Entrance of the Conflagration is one my favourite songs ever, and I always loved Sadness Will Sear, Contempt Breeds Contamination, To the Rats and the instrumental title track, but the lack of screaming on the album was a bummer as it was so incredible on Ascendancy. I’ve been listening to The Crusade again recently and I definitely like Detonation a lot more. The Rising is still such an odd song 😂

[@maximovasquezvasquez3565]

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[@adrianmedeiros8431]

Here's the thing about public perception. I didn't know The Crusade was supposed controversial album until I heard this. I actually LOVE the crusade

[@Aenigmakil]

I was around listening to them when it came out so I'm aware of the controversy, but I love it since I'm into 80s metal, in particular thrash metal.

[@Justshutthefupup]

I honestly never understood the hate. I’ve listened to all of their music and it’s a top three album no question.

[@Aenigmakil]

@@Justshutthefupup Dying in your arms 2 and The Rising sucked and Anthem was just okay but the rest of the album was great.

[@ratmi8633]

A lot of the hate around that time was related to them saying they wanted to be the next Metallica and it rubbed tons of people including other bands the wrong way I think they’ve been humbled and rebounded nicely and have their own way and sound

[@bennymountain1]

Same with Vengeance. People shit on that one and I slept on it when it came out, but listening to it years after, it's quickly became one of my favorites. It's full of bangers!

[@jacoblaceyYT]

love these sort of conversations between bands and a genuine fan interviewer, mimics the sort of conversations we'd all love to have with them rather than just boring generic questions you've heard them answer a million times. Really enjoyed the insight into this era!

[@PrimordialRadio]

Couldn't ask for a better compliment than that, thanks so much Jacob, glad you enjoyed it! 👊 /Pete

[@rong.2457]

The Crusade was my introduction to Trivium…I’ve been a fan ever since. I still love it to this day. 🤘🏻🔥🤘🏻

[@zaddymac4768]

Trivium have yet to release something I haven’t been a huge fan of. Absolutely love this band and their entire catalog.

[@bighomiestevethemetalhead]

I absolutely love this album, I'm a huge Thrash Metal Head so The Crusade is right up my alley. That album is a banger from start to finish, tons of killer riffs, lots of energy, great songwriting, and I think it holds up well to this day. It sucks to see the h8 towards The Crusade, but I have definitely noticed a lot of fans commenting their love for that album as well. I rate it a 9/10 and I will stand by that, definitely one of my favorite Trivium albums!

[@USALeonHeart]

I'll admit it's like the second metal record I ever bought but it's still such an energetic, aggressive record with tons of variety and good playing.

[@dysonmodica9302]

W opinion

[@aitokoojii1462]

After Silence In The Snow, it's the worst Trivium album for me. Both of those sound too 80's and trying too hard to sound like their influences to me.

[@chipchiperson679]

That album sucked, was a departure from their heavy metalcore aggression from embers and ascendency, they went down from there

[@bighomiestevethemetalhead]

@@chipchiperson679 yeah, well that's YOUR opinion man...

[@ross1000100]

That's the best interview I have heard in a long time. Props to both involved! 👍

[@THEMETALISBETTER]

Ascendancy was the album that got me into extreme metal. The Crusade is and always has been good. I feel the same about it now as I did as a 16 year old kid. Maybe not my favorite album by Trivium, but it's top 3 for sure. If you liked Ascendancy you should like The Crusade as well.

[@FStan-co8vv]

I love Ascendancy, I think it's possibly the best metalcore record ever made. But I can't say the same thing about the Crusade - they ditched metalcore entirely and instead tried to be like an 80s thrash/speed metal band, and rip off the vocal style of James Hetfield... Combined with cheesy lyrics, it just came out as forced and unnatural. Sure there's some good songs on The Crusade and great guitar playing, but overall a very weak record in many aspects

[@ginjaninja6963]

The whole album goes hard. The song The Crusade is a friggin master piece.

[@BangersNMashYT]

I absolutely love the crusade. Shame it gets so much hate

[@bighomiestevethemetalhead]

I completely agree, I'm a huge Thrash Metal Head so The Crusade is right up my alley. That album is a banger from start to finish, tons of killer riffs, lots of energy, great songwriting, and I think it holds up well to this day. It sucks to see the h8 towards The Crusade, but I have definitely noticed a lot of fans commenting their love for that album as well. I rate it a 9/10 and I will stand by that, definitely one of my favorite Trivium albums!

[@ratmi8633]

Easily their best album. Things really went downhill after shogun.

[@ianperrier6204]

The Crusade was their Metallica impression. Great guitar-work, but trash composition. It's a garbage album.

[@BangersNMashYT]

@@ianperrier6204 I personally disagree but I respect your opinion

[@kidnamedalaska]

My favorite album by them along with Shogun and ITCOTD

[@dynamitecity9667]

I got to see Trivium during their crusade tour back in 2007 in Glasgow, they were supported by Gojira and Annihilator. Was an awesome gig

[@wrench8677]

I saw them at Cambridge on that tour, such an amazing show

[@DannyBoyGameZ]

This interview will now be my mentor going forward 🔥❤️ Thanks for this. So much info and honestly wisdom 🤘🏻

[@thelawlessone666]

🦤

[@PrimordialRadio]

Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it 👊

[@mallinathhanjagi1312]

Ok po lil

[@rocklives8251]

The Crusade is my favorite Trivium album. They stepped away from what everyone else seemed to be doing and made a great album.

[@seadkolasinac7220]

Copying Metallica isn’t exactly original

[@mauro1427]

​@@seadkolasinac7220bro did u even listen to any song on the crusade? the only thing comparable to metallica was Matt's voice, and he couldn't do anything about it

[@mauro1427]

@@GibramRivera-sy2nr not really bro, The Crusade is much more Megadeth-like than Metallica like, not even the song writing, riffs, solos or drums sound like Metallica, Lars wouldn't play Entrance to the conflagration in a million years nor Kirk would play Tread the floods solo

[@monkmoto1887]

@@seadkolasinac7220 metallica could never touch the crusade. they could never keep up with the pace and lars would be so lost on drums itd be hilarious. the crusade is what metallica would have been with more talent

[@monkmoto1887]

@@mauro1427 for real, metallica would be way out classed, theyre not a band of highly skilled musicians, theyre a band of great performers who play instruments.

[@TizzmantineUK]

Trivium was huuuuuge growing up, I didn't realise it was mainly in the UK, they were everywhere, older and cooler metalheads in my school all caught guitar picks at a gig and it was the coolest shit in the world

[@murdy01]

new to the channel but such a cool interview. thanks for asking the question that matter!

[@PrimordialRadio]

Thank you! And welcome to the Primordial family 👊 /Pete

[@davidkruszka8426]

I have always loved how Trivium has been so different. They have provided such a mix of music.

[@kevind3094]

Great conversation

[@SuperHeavyDave]

What a cracking interview!

[@bimonsolivar8898]

Still remember buying The Crusade at the local record store back when I was 15. Blew my mind instantly and I've been a huge fan ever since...

[@bruhmusic6999]

This is such a good interview

[@stott32]

I adore this album, the melodies and harmonies are sublime

[@nickzema4200]

Trivium got me into metal when I was in HS in 2004. I didn't know all this stuff happened. I'm not really into metal as much as I used to, but I always check out Trivium's albums as they drop, will always love them.

[@Sybex82]

Nice interview man i agree with many things and appreciate the little things in life 💪🏾

[@Crowley666Beast]

I remember first hearing some songs of the crusade and I was hooked from the get go, one of my favourite bands

[@The_JustJoshing]

This album got me into Trivium

[@blowera1]

My first Trivium album and I love it 🤘

[@LostBoy316]

I love the crusade, I remember when I first got it after loving ascendancy and then being a little off put by the new style, BUT it ultimately became my favorite album of their. The Riffs are nuts and guitar tone is badass

[@davidfischer1971]

i like the crusade. what's even more amazing is that shogun sounds like a mix of ascendancy and the crusade in the best way possible.

[@silverfoxmetal]

Shogun is their peak imo

[@farhanshakilshaikh7015]

Amazing

[@bendalgliesh5458]

Great interview, as a huge Trivium fan who loved the Crusade (although I’ve just always skipped Anthem) this was a cathartic listen

[@chrissgardiner]

I remember getting introduced to Trivium through Ascendancy in 2005 via a friend I met on AOL Instant Messanger. Fell in love. Then I remember when the video for Entrance came out, I was NOT for it. I shunned off The Crusade completely at that time. 19 year old me was not about it. Fast forward to when the video for Down From the Sky came out (saw it on Myspace if I recall) and I was back in. Absolutely loved Shogun. I went and saw Trivium live for the first and met them on Mayhem Fest that year in 2009, and picked up my first 7-string guitar because of that album. In retrospect, The Crusade is a great album. The lyrics especially were top notch. I think I just needed to mature to fully appreciate how good of an album it was. Also, Dying In Your Arms is a bop. No question. Speaking on lyrics, Villainy Thrives off Vengeance has some of my absolute favorite lyrics from the band. It's a shame a good majority of audiences let such great lyrics fall to the wayside.

[@HorsesArePeople2]

The Crusade was the very first Trivium album I bought. I was at Hot Topic (of course) and the cashier recommended it to me. Ended up being one of my favorite albums

[@quenguin2178]

I'm 37 now. When I was around 17 I discovered Trivium. around the same time I discovered Bullet for my Valentine, Killswitch engage, Funeral for a Friend,, Dragonforce ect. In a way they were all part of a new wave of heavy metal for my generation.

[@GeorgeZimmermen]

I love the crusade. Soundtrack to my senior year of high school 2006-2007. It’s not my fav of theirs, but it has a special place in my nostalgic heart

[@yellowdog2181]

I only recently found Trivium when I was 46 years old, I can’t remember a time since I was a kid being so psyched for music from a “new” band . In the 80s I loved metal , then I got into jambands and recently finding music I feel like I missed out on . Like Trivium, KSE , In Flames , Arch Enemy , Parkway Drive it’s all new to me and I love it all

[@sonicrules666]

Try shadows fall too, an awesome thrash based metalcore band similar to Trivium and KSE, they are back in the studio too, I found KSE and Shadows Fall within 2 weeks of each other back in 2002, great times

[@twisstedriffs]

I was at the second wulfrun show in Wolverhampton it was insane! Started my obsession with Trivium!

[@oliverorchard2296]

Hey dude. I was at wulfrun show, was this the 2005 one? I was like 14 years old, I was already massively into them after the pull harder video came out but this gig got me obsessed as well! Great journey with the year 11 boys to see this

[@goat_horde]

Their only album i can listen to from start to finish multiple times

[@Nooney3230]

Listen bro. Hard-core fan. Love you guys the music you made... I miss the original drummer.... Travis

[@dominusblandus]

I've been in Cologne... i guess 2007... Trivium headlining with legendary Annihilator as a support act. Totally crazy. Trivium with Maiden shirts etc... and those young guys took every chance to thank Annihilator and all the other legends that formed those uprising guys. Was a blast.

[@PabloSchred]

After seeing the video for "Anthem (We Are The Fire)" - I ended up getting The Crusade album, since I've bought Shogun (CD) and 2 records of Trivium, have a Trivium tattoo, seen them live twice and now own a Matt Heafy Origins Les Paul - Without the Crusade, I would not have became a huge fan of Trivium so for me, it's still my most important release, I didn't care about what others said back in 2006, I was 13 and blown away

[@WarriorEsoteric]

I remember when they dropped the crusade, I loved it straight away

[@shepinchains1]

The Crusade is still my favorite album of Trivium... And is what got me in to em. Filled the Metallica Void of the 2000s

[@philthyphil7651]

Great interview and great album. Still listen to it. only criticism is caesar wasnt featured enough. Much love!

[@Citizen_J]

Bought the Crusade the day it came out, and loved it. Still slays.

[@danielreynolds6498]

As 80s thrash metal fan this album got me into trivium

[@knutraoulsamny7453]

I didn't really like The Crusade when it was released back in 2006, but as a 17 year old youth back then, I was too impatient to really listen through the album thoroughly and make up my own mind. I matured and really began to appreciate the album's sublime guitar playing, the solos, the lyrics and the growling vocals. For me, it is without doubt a top tier metal album, and certainly one of Trivium's best works.

[@zagreatandini2345]

Been a trivium fan since ascendency, saw them with Bodem and Amon amarth the first time. Then the with the sword for the crusade. I said since day 1, this is the next Metallica, when I stood there seeing them the first time I said to myself, this is something special and something I’ll never forget and be able to say “I saw these guys on the first tour, yes, I was there!”

[@brianwalker7624]

Love the Crusade from front to back 🤘🏼💀🤘🏼

[@farhanshakilshaikh7015]

❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

The Crusade was the first Trivium album i listened through all the way, i first heard it... today lol, it was pretty good! Detonation in particular is absolutely amazing (though i had heard that song way before)

[@farhanshakilshaikh7015]

Wow 👌

[@jorgeviesca4815]

I love this album because it came out in a time where metalcore was getting boring and instead of repeating what they did on the previous they brought that thrash sound and introduced me to something a little different than the sing scream breakdown bands.

[@Philmfanatic]

I was at that Birmingham gig they did with Maiden (2006!). It was great to see how Matt handled the hater situation and seeing him get crowd surfed out!

[@WickedRaccoon16_61]

I was one of thoes who hated it at first cauz it wasn't ascendency. Still both it for collection, after like five years after i both it, i decided to give it another listend and i was blown away and still am 🤘🤘

[@kaboose111]

I remember when it came out, and I can’t say I was a fan of the album as a whole, but then came Shogun.

[@jasonnielsen5976]

I've seen them 8 times now, I know of the hate they got, I always felt it was unwarranted, they hit the scene cocky, but they had the chops to back it up, i felt vengeance and silence weren't their greatest offerings, but they were still very solid albums. But as soon as Alex joined, everything they've done has been solid gold, love these guys, keep killing it!

[@coryjackson8409]

I thought The Crusade was a fantastic album. Hell I loved it so much more than In Waves and that era Trivium. I got Ascendancy when it came out and was blown away!!! Great chat!!!

[@danieljl1093]

First time I heard Trivium was when they had their "Simlish" version of Like Light To The Flies on The Sims 2 for PS2. From there I heard Ascendancy when my brother got his hands on it. I liked it a lot, but when I heard The Crusade, it solidified them in my eyes as one of the true greats. I was 12. Didnt give a damn about album reviews or what was "the norm" in metal. The Crusade was and is a fantastic album. I'm really thankful I heard it as a kid with no context whatsoever. It was just really good.

[@Iesous27]

Lol I can relate so much to Matt saying "people were looking at us like an emo band because of how we looked". My favourite band is Katatonia, but when I first saw them live with Moonspell back in 2006 (during "the great cold distance" tour), they looked emo as hell, and I was more into extreme metal rather than Jonas's clean vocals. I hated what I heard, but then I became a bit older and more open minded and they quickly became my favourite. And the same happened with Trivium, I was never really into them back in the day, but I really did enjoy the song "pull harder". When the album "the sin and the sentence" came out and I heard beyond oblivion is when I really started to dig their music and got really into them. It helps that Matt is such an inspiring person, dude doesn't let the BS take him down.

[@gozeros7611]

The Crusade got me into Trivium back in 2006, i also really love Vengeance Falls, i think that album also gets a lot of hate, but it got some bangers on it.

[@farhanshakilshaikh7015]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@jeremyeisenmnn7681]

I remember one of the bands hating on trivium was a band called the absence. They would give you absence merch if you gave them trivium merch. They called it a metal upgrade.

[@acolytetojippity]

Ascendency and Crusade are probably Trivium's best albums. they're just incredible

[@tatt2guy86]

Few bands throughout history have what it takes to put out multiple albums that challenge and push themselves. Trivium achieved that...and it's unfortunate that a lot of people want you to do good, just not better than them. Bill Burr once said, do so good that no matter where you are on the bill, that everyone else bombs, make your music and performance hard to follow. At the same time, treat people how you want to be treated.

[@Dr_Footbrake]

Re: The section talking about re-recording The Crusade; The Rising even made it onto Australian TV during Australian Rules Football broadcasts lol

[@COBHC8890]

The "Dean Guitars" era of Trivium will always be my favorite. 🤷‍♂️

[@djamaranth3870]

I was oblivious about the story behind this album. I've only known it as my favorite trivium record 😂

[@Kains_Gaming_Channel]

I love this album

[@jedsteelwell2354]

I think the crusade is one of their best records! Detonation 🤘

[@paulboisvert3215]

I'll be honest and say that I was definitely upset when I bought The Crusade when it came out. I liked the songs but Ascendancy changed my life when I was a kid. Looking back I respect thier willingness to take a risk. As he said, there could've never been another Ascendancy.

[@hate6crew6death6roll]

i was much the same, i went and seen trivium as my first gig and loved it, fuckin loved ascendancy and everything before then, but then The Crusade came out and it was like another band's sound, a sound i didn't like and then came 'the anthem' being blasted on kerrang and scuzz 24/7 and i'd had enough of that style sadly. I haven't listened to another Trivium album since sadly, the style just felt the opposite of ascendancy and they left my ears and life. If there's anything like ascendancy they have released with those growls and riffs, let me know as id love to hear more of THAT sound

[@sonicrules666]

the lyrics tell stories, some about true crime. The thing I like about The Crusade is the riffs, not everyone likes the singing but I don't mind it, but regardless of that the actual instrumentation is till Trivium. That's why Vengeance Falls and Silence in the Snow are much worse albums, they changed their sound (inevitably they don't like those albums really and most fans don't I'd say), as soon as I heard The Sin and the Sentence song I knew the real Trivium were actually back, couldn't wait for the album, saw them live in Leeds last night for the first time in almost 5 and a half years, still an awesome live band.

[@Vasiliy230]

Their best album so far

[@CharlieWielowski]

The Crusade is on of my top favourite Trivium albums

[@Drummerjtw88]

Maybe I’m crazy but I love the crusade. One of my favorite all time albums

[@gumzinator]

When The Crusade came out I was propably the biggest fanboy of Trivium, because Ember To Inferno and Ascendancy blew me away. My first thoughts about the Crusade were: "Oh no, Trivium turn into something bad and will never release good music anymore" Well, nowaday I am still the biggest Trivium fanboy and I changed my mind about The Crusade. I think, it is an absolute masterpiece.

[@davidzamora9973]

Same here. I was totally let down the first time I heard the crusade. 6 months later I was like damn, this is bad ass!

[@farhanshakilshaikh7015]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@nikolakrastev8880]

The Crusade is great. My 2nd favourite Trivium album after Ascendancy

[@ismaeljrp1]

Been with them since 05. I’ve loved most albums. Silence is maybe the only one that wasn’t for me with exception of a couple tracks. My favorites are the ones since Alex joined though. But the others are top notch.

[@selfoblivionalex6262]

I believe The Crusade hate has ended the Album is now getting the love is has deserved.

[@bretthoppe5384]

Ascendancy is literally a perfect album

[@dangerdanger1200]

I actually didn't care for ascendency at first but really like the crusade then went back as a new fan

[@simone_78]

I love his voice. I would pay to listen to him just reading the phone book. I remender being really disapointed when The Crusade came out. I think it was just not the kind of music I wanted from Trivium at the point in time.

[@infernosdante4557]

Love the crusade. Album is balls to the wall with killer riffs.

[@thefog7067]

The Crusade title track is an absolutely ffffucking awesome instrumental

[@gaugev2]

Most of my favorite bands that release albums that other fans hate I always seem to love. I loved Ascendancy, when I heard gunshot to the head of trepidation it changed my life. Kinda like when I heard cowboys from hell for the first time. When The Crusade came out I heard all the hate and "metallica copycat" comments. To me I loved The Crusade then and I love it even more now. And it's ironic how Matt mentions Fall out boy because the album Folie a Deux got the same hate, or a7x Life is but a dream gets so much hate and I loved those albums immediately lol

[@YourMissingEyeBrow]

Matt made me push beyond my MetaillicA malaise. Cool AF. I need more for my 7 string dude!

[@spicyf]

Would love one of these with shogun

[@TDZPearson]

The general thoughts of metal heads in the UK at the time was that Ascendancy was a great album from a band who was doing everything better than everyone else. Then the Crusade was just boring American thrash music and had turned away from the amazing sound they had made in Ascendancy.

[@sonicrules666]

True, I didn't mind the singing as the songs still sounded like Trivium instrumentally. What I did mind was Vengeance Falls and Silence in the Snow, they sounded like a watered down metal band with no passion or energy, disgraceful albums both of them, I'd say a few of the Crusade haters realised that the Crusade wasn't that bad an album then. They are still awesome live, saw them in Leeds last night for the first time in 5 and a half years, and their last 3 albums I love

[@daoyang223]

A common woman wouldn't listen to The Crusade. But I love The Crusade.

[@mikewatkins3533]

I like the crusade. He and Corey said in guitar magazine it’s like justice for all from Metallica. Just darker. Cheers🍺🍺🍺😎🎸

[@notedsinner3171]

The Crusade is one of my favourite albums lol

[@djstone9578]

I like the crusade but on a tier of all their albums it's pretty low The Broken One is the best song on the album in my opinion but it's gotta be 1) Shogun 2) Ascendancy 3) What The Dead Men Say 4) In Waves 5) In The Court of the Dragon 6) Sin & The Sentence 7) Silence In The Snow 8) The Crusade 9) Venegence Falls 10) Ember To Inferno

[@traumasenior]

Crusade-shogun-in waves are holy three from trivium :)

[@automaticbog3687]

I don't get the hate for this album I think it's really good.

[@fredrickbower3378]

That album was bad ass awesome

[@ZanderShepard]

I don't understand the hate people have towards The Crusade as it has its fair share of gems in that album (Rats, Dragon, Crusade instrumental, We are the fire being my favourites) And it became a springboard to even more diverse styles in albums like Shogun and In Waves. Just goes to show wether Trivium, even when shunned, writes music from their heart and dare to be different.

[@bigbrown2690]

I just learned about this video but I had no idea there was hate on the Crusade album, like many said it was my first album of Trivium then ascension And I listen to heavier music so these two albums and then Shogun are my favorite and I feel like they’ve gotten “softer” but still good. It’s like The Devil Wears Prada with me,,8 always love the heavier stuff but still love their new stuff. I feel like Trivium has gotten a little more “main stream” and just like a harder rock band as opposed to the OG super heavy Trivium that I think is gone. No hate I still love trivium and one of my faves of all time!

[@bigbrown2690]

Also if I remember Trivium has gotten “softer” because Matt got tired of screaming and wanted to do actual singing so I understand the shift.

[@Jonthebard]

The Crusade to me is a great thrash album

[@cobgab]

The Crusade is a masterpiece of its genre as simple as that...

[@gagecee5129]

Bro I'm 37 year old boomer and Crusade, Ascendency and Shogun are my favorite albums. Thrash is my genre.

[@DxTrixterz]

Crusade's failure lead to Shogun's success. You can already hear like little bits of what Shogun would be in Becoming The Dragon for example. There would be no Shogun without Crusade.