How Volkswagen Improved, But Also Ruined, the new Golf R - Two Takes

[@TheSmokingTire]

How do you feel about haptic/capacitive buttons?

[@Joyrider564]

Everyone was upset when phones lost their physical keyboards, but we got used to it. I think it’ll be the same with controls in cars.

[@jaimykok6533]

@@Joyrider564 There is still a volume button on my phone.

[@FSFLIGHTproductions]

@@Joyrider564 For mobile phones I can understand the transition. You have a fully touch screen interface anyway and it saves space / gives more freedom for full screen applications. For cars I just don't see the upside other than it's cheaper for the manufacture to add these buttons. Granted that should get reflected on the consumer end but will it really? I think not. And for that cost saving you end up with something that makes every single interaction with any part of the car objectively worse. Check out games consoles. Sony has black plastic capacitive buttons on the PS3 people hated it so much the PS4 went back to physical power buttons. Xbox had the same thing with the one X now the series X has physical buttons again. And these are things you operator while sitting on you sofa at home not while driving. I for one hope this trend dies a quick death. (Also side rant) I can't get over how slow infotainment is just sort of accepted now. I understand with progress sometimes you take a small step backwards but it's been a while now that we've had some really awful touch response and manufactures have zero reason to let that ship. I've used a 1998 LS400 Gen 1.5 JDM car with the touch screen for years. First time I saw it I thought "Oh man this thing is going to be so slow" but it was fine, like more than fine actually it was faster than most systems today. Granted the visuals are super basic but if you can't hit a set response time with a system make the graphics more simplistic hardware targets are know years in advance for car platforms. Video of a gen 1.5 LS400 if anyone is interested. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJyqmYyNo9KLmtE

[@Kyomara1337]

The worst thing to be put in a cars interior ever. If you have to look at the buttons to see if you're actually pressing the right one instead of being able to feel it then the design has simply failed.

[@papa_pt]

@@Joyrider564 difference is the phone being the only thing you need to concentrate on while these controls are all secondary to the main act of driving

[@AB-nv7bz]

The reviews on the r have said the same thing for years. It's not as track focused as others, but it continues to be the best hot hatch for daily driving. No sti, no evo, just a civic r. Personally I couldn't drive a civic r around, it looks so absurd.

[@krane15]

Unlike its on-trick-pony rivals its not meant to be. They're more raw fun, but on an all day cross-country with the wife and kids that buckboard feel and noise would get old real quick.

[@zeteclover]

Man, Zack is HILARIOUS. His one-liner analogies are always 10/10 - such high wit it cracks Matt up too. You guys are easily a top duo like James & Thomas from Throttle House. Thanks for all the great content!

[@cyclistman6358]

Interesting review. As the owner of a nicely modded 2017 MK7 GTI SE DSG, I can’t express enough how utterly content I am with my GTI. Sure the R is quicker and more capable. But in reality how much power and speed can you actually use and need for typical street driving. My GTI is much quicker than most cars I encounter and more than capable for my style of driving and very fun to drive. This platform has so much potential and so many performance options available in the aftermarket. Sort out the suspension, lighter wheels, grippy tires, an ECU and TCU tune and the GTI just rips down the road, especially through the twisty’s. She’s not perfect, but still damn good!! ☮️

[@Evinrudeeee]

I just bought a Golf R (manual shift). It’s quick, and it’s absolutely good for daily commuting and also for having some fun. The capacitive buttons are horrible, but they require some day to be used without swearing. The drift mode is good for drivers with no particular experience. As S2000 owner I can say the full rear traction with no electronic controls is another experience, but it can be dangerous. The major issue of these cars is the level of engagement which is not pure and authentic. I think there are still few new cars that offer the true feeling of the mechanic and dynamic interaction. The Cadillac CT5-v blackwing (manual shift) is a beautiful beast. I’m curious to see the new Nissan Z

[@andrewwalkowiak563]

One of the many things that makes the MK8 Golf R special is a manual transmission. If your going automatic, you might as well just go all the way to electric. Electric cars will be even faster and have more torque. The MK8 Golf R manual is in a class of its own if you want a manual transmission all wheel drive German car, unless you pay about $100,000 more for a 992 C4s. The infotainment system has a lot of issues and the haptic buttons I could do with out. Owning Audi S4 and a 2013 TTRs, the MK8 Golf R certainly rates up there.

[@karmahunden]

Manual transmission on the 8R is an afterthought. It has been rated a terrible and not suited for the car. Germans didn’t even bother to make it available where it’s made - only in North America. I used to think the same way: hust go electric, but indrove a dsg for the first time and it’s extremely fun. The think “braps” when you upshift and “pop” when you downshift. Gears are also shorter and you have launch control (6mt doesnt, and it has really long gears). It has a mini-Formula1 feel to it. EVs are muted. It’s like getting raped with a sock on your mouth.

[@slow8r]

OMG SOMEONE ACTUALLY TESTED A DSG R. Thank you, Smoking tire!

[@yourfast07]

It’s definitely better all around car than mk7.5, whole new 4motion system, sunroof, big brakes, better suspension, 4th gen 888 engine that has stronger pistons and rods then mk7.5 so now you can go way over 500hp without building block. Mk8 Gti gets rods from mk7 golf r. Heated steering wheel, heated and cooled front seats, heated rear seats, driver side memory seat, Adding all this up is pretty good deal. Those who upgrade cars with aftermarket parts knows how much all this costs.

[@aslammoola]

Spot on and different turbo to gti

[@eagle.s1k]

Than*

[@yourfast07]

@@eagle.s1k Thanks

[@dimos15]

The 7.5 has a lot better interior. Mk8 is plastic everywhere

[@vomitus007]

Forged internals?

[@quicktoreason2722]

reviewers still in 2022/23: The infotainment isnt good - meanwhile everyone that owns one has no issues - don't listen to this part of the review from any of these guys - take it from someone that has lived with it for 8 months - its extremely intuitive- its like having a smartphone - everything important can be set up as a shortcut as well. Also these reviewers seem really inauthentic - its almost as if all of them are just voicing each others opinions - seriously - i owned an fk8 type R and it was an awesome car but as a daily it was horrendous. I swapped to a 7.5 R and that was night and day the best daily driving car out there UNTIL the mk8 came out - i got a chance to drive the new type R the gr Corolla and the mk8 R and i legit came out thinking the type R was the best car to drive, but the Golf R was the best car to live with and now after 8 months of living with the mk8R, i can hand on heart say i wasnt wrong at all. FYI - the corolla seemed a bit, boring. anyways. I highly recommend that people drive these cars themselves and not listen to these extremely biased and almost fake reviews.

[@paulmcdonald9592]

After struggling with deciding on an MK 8 to replace my MK 6 two door, I just went and purchased a 2021 MK 7.5 S. 5K miles at $28,600 w/ DSG. I think it was the right decision.

[@josephcitizen4195]

Wow, congrats. That's a great deal. Mind if I ask what country you're in?

[@savannahkorben7353]

that's a crazy deal, carmax would buy my '16 mk7 R with 30k miles off me at 27.5k tomorrow

[@ENDCT-mx5ei]

When a mk8 flies past you, you will realize you made the wrong decision.

[@claytonlh]

@@ENDCT-mx5ei you missed the point.

[@jamiekirkpatrick96]

I feel the 7.5 might've been peak Golf sadly

[@alpe3784]

it was a great car,this one is dogshit compared to it.

[@stevemartegani]

2 door 2016 MK7 is peak GTI in the US. The 6 speed DSG was superior to the 7 speed that replaced it in 2018, and the 2016 got the upgraded infotainment that worked perfect over the 2015. The 2017 2 door didn't get the performance pack/fancy diff. The Clubsport S was the peak GTI for Europe and it was that same year too.

[@PRTube01]

@@alpe3784 why

[@stevenyia2778]

Interesting opinion

[@Quirky.Turtle69]

@@stevemartegani I agree. 2016 had the best options.

[@scottcarey2804]

Love that you're back in the reviews Matt!

[@joxer]

S3 doesn't come with a manual. No sale. I also test drove the RS3 3 years ago but ended up buying the 2019 Golf R with a stick when I realized I enjoyed my drive back from the test drive in my 15 year old A4 Avant 6MT more than driving a faster version of my 2015 A3.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I find your comment kind of funny because in the MK7/7.5 world, there are actually more people who want DSG. I own a MK7 GTI 6spd manual, and am a die hard manual guy, but I find it funny that more people want manual R’s now. I wonder why the change?? Probably because, as good as DSG is, it’s boring. So now that the majority of people hopped on the DSG bandwagon, they’re starting to realize that they actually want driver engagement back, and are choosing and advocating for their sports cars to be in manual.

[@2001chevycamaross]

problem is, the audi doesnt come with a manual or a hatch. It also has the old haldex. I have a 2018 golf r and im contemplating getting one of these for the cooled seats and heated steering wheel. Does the steering feel different from the last generation golf r?

[@krane15]

Yeah, but it has the rings doh.

[@erikg6118]

Matt and Zack, love you guys! I feel like you guys always give harsh but fair reviews. My question to the both of you is, IF VW does an early refresh of the GTI and Golf R and gets rid of the haptic/capacitive buttons, and fixes the frustrating infotainment, would the Golf R THEN be worth the $5K over the GTI, and or worth getting in the "sea of everything"?

[@TheSmokingTire]

Yes. - Zack

[@turdzilla1675]

This was the question I was looking for. Glad Zach answered you.

[@morbidgull8922]

To be fair every real driver of the car says the haptics and infotainment is fine after you get use to it, I tend to believe people who daily the car vs people who drive for an afternoon or week.

[@holgerviel1949]

Question: since every reviewer complaints about the same issues of the infotainment system and the haptic feedback, should I just wait to decide between the GTI and the R since VW obviously have to change the issues?

[@niradgupta4075]

I wish we got the S3 sportback in the US

[@stevencarrington4974]

“You want gauges I’ll put gauges on your gauges buddy” best line ever 🤣

[@MrMduchesne23]

The audi S3 is slower and lacks the trick rear diff. You'll need the RS3 to get the equivalent plus more....The Civic type R is the best for the money. But I'd still keep my mk7 GTI.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I’d rather keep my MK7 GTI over a CTR because a CTR is outrageously expensive! Like it’s used M4 expensive!! I’m not paying a crap load of money for a FWD car, no matter how good it handles, because 90% of the time I’m not pushing the car super hard anyways to get my moneys worth out of its handling. The CTR has become a collector kind of car, and it just wouldn’t even be a smart choice to pay the insane price for one to just daily it. The MK7 GTI, on the other hand, can be had for a great price used, and it can be made to be super quick, handle great, and reliable. No brained to me to keep the MK7 GTI as a daily beast setup, because it’s not that expensive to own or buy.

[@MrMduchesne23]

@@JacesOwnWorld recently looked at a CTR in the used market. It was 34k with 60k km. Used MK7.5 Golf R was 39 of the same year. The GTI of the same year was 32K. There isn't the same markup on the used market for these cars. Yes, I remember the 25K dealer markups on the CTR...I laughed at anyone who bought one with that markup.

[@WitchYuki22]

@@MrMduchesne23 You really think CTR is more of a daily drive than golf? Lol It doesn't even have heated seats because that's too much weight for the apparent "daily car"

[@MrMduchesne23]

​@@WitchYuki22 reading my above comment, I didn't say the CTR is the best daily...I'm looking at these vehicles from the aspect of trackable daily, like an FRS vs ND Miata. The Golf R is the best daily, hands down. Winter, Summer, Fall. 365 days with proper tires, it does everything near perfectly. However, the CTR will trounce it on the track, ALL DAY SUMMER LONG and has more cargo capacity with the longer body and hatch but lacks a decent auto that would give it mass-market appeal. If you want a daily that will excel on the track...you'd be wasting money and time modding an MK8 Golf R or GTI to get where the CTR already. If you want a fun car that is capable on the track and won't hurt you when you do anything else...Golf R is clearly the best.

[@AntFragale]

I know these guys likely spent like zero time in this thing but watching these old reviews filled with bad info is super annoying honestly. If anyone has any questions about the car from an actual owner, feel free to comment and ask. Coming from previous 7 owners all over FB and the like, you can’t hardly even get in a 7 after living with one of these. It’s literally just as easy to use (or easier in some cases) than buttons and the 7 feels extremely dated by comparison. Also the CTR feels premium and is nice??? Lol. No. Have these guys been in one? I’m telling you right now, go get into a CTR and then get in one of these and actually look/feel. They’re not even remotely the same.

[@muskistutter]

"There's zero giggles..." @13:37 Matt nails it right there and the couple mins afterwards. Interior and UI issues aside in the Mk8, this has always been the problem with Golf R's. I'd love for @jasoncammisa to weigh in on his next TST podcast visit.

[@EvoraGT430]

Playstation-generation again?

[@muskistutter]

@@EvoraGT430 not necessarily. VWs just doesn't tune their steering racks to be quick. Certainly not to same degree as Ford ST/RS or Hyundai N products.

[@user-jr3xw9js1k]

@@muskistutter true. Also can be seen for I guess the “purpose” of these cars in comparison to those. ST/RS, type R, Veloster N etc. were always more circuit tuned (if that makes sense) and the GTI & R are more mellow. Quick steering racks on the highway are a little jarring at higher speeds to say the least.

[@davect01]

You see it as a problem. Others enjoy that the Golf platform does not have the drama and can be the "respectable" hot hatch.

[@thatpersiandude7386]

Golf R is only fun for the first few hours of driving... it gets boring real quickly

[@justinoconnor6720]

45k to be disappointed by the driving dynamics, and constantly annoyed by the function & reliability of touch screens. I think I'll wait for the GR Corolla. Good job VW.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I absolutely hate Toyota’s stance on “sports cars”, but yeah, I would buy a GR Corolla over an MK8 R too. MK8 is a big letdown

[@Thekobeowns]

Don’t trust these reviewers. The mk8 r is better than the 7.5 and it’s not even close. I sold my 7.5 to get the mk8 and I was shocked on how much bull shit these reviewers are feeding people. They have a personal vendetta against touch countries so they over exaggerating it to try and get company’s to stop doing it. The new infotainment system is night and day better than old platform and it’s super easy to use once you give it A day or two to learn the new layout. Would not go back to the old system. I love the new system. Then the drive is way better, it’s more comfortable. Even the steering is better.

[@DouEditz]

@@Thekobeowns sigh

[@Thekobeowns]

@@DouEditz ??

[@Thekobeowns]

@@Gandalf721 yea not sure where they got less fun to drive. The steering feel is better than previous Gen and the cars suspension is better. It handles really well but when you push it it acts like rear wheel drive you can feel the back slide out a bit.the car is way more fun to drive than previous Gen

[@thebiggestoneyouveverhad]

I'm watching this review and reading through some of these comments and it's quite sad. I've owned this car for the past two weeks with manual 6 speed and bridgestone potenza tires. This is my first VW and Golf so, no reference there but, the car is quite brilliant in many ways and with the myriad of features offered I might have been willing to pay more. I'm sorry people aren't appreciating this car. I suspect if you drove one you would. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of mine for a long time.

[@reidconti]

Just enjoy it. I waited for years to buy the Mk7 R new, owned it for 3 years and loved it. And everyone said the same things about it when it was new. Too disconnected and distant, not fun, etc. Now I'm sure there are folks on the forums saying the Mk7 was the last "true" analog R which of course is laughable.

[@tedjones403]

Love mine as well!

[@codyjump8142]

Love mine Too. The infotainment system is easy. If you know how to use a modern cell phone then you know how to navigate this infotainment.

[@yorkiepit]

It's a great car and you made a great choice. I'm getting one with the DSG. I read a review about the Porsche Turbo S where they wrote the same sort of stuff. Personally, when I'm driving a car hard, I don't want it to feel like it's sketchy at the limit. This car is packed full of goodness AND practicality too!

[@rockysi22]

Why would I get a less powerful S3, that doesn't offer torque vectoring, the availability of a manual transmission and the practicality of a hatch - for more money.. is beyond me. Seriously guys... I agree with the fizzless experience though.

[@TheHomeExpert5]

Matt, low-carb diets work, I lost more than 70 lb.

[@po.russki]

This car feels “distant” with disconnected steering, how does that compare to the new WRX?

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

Gone are the days with connected steering feel and feeling every pebble on the road, everyone has to accept that fact unless they want to buy a Hyundai.

[@cme2cau]

@@boygonewhoopdataZZ It's a crazy world when an i30N has Michelins and a Golf R has Hankooks!

[@shawncarr9855]

@@cme2cau This is a press car that has been beat on by other journalists. They even said that in the video. VW put Hankooks on it when they replaced the tires. I just bought a Golf R and it does not have hankooks on it.

[@cme2cau]

@@shawncarr9855 That makes it even stranger. Why would VW do that? And is that why Matt and Zac are unhappy with the dynamics?

[@gabrielflores1149]

I was looking to get this. But ALL dealers were asking $5k over MSRP LOL. Ended up with a new M340i. Better in every way and just $10k more.

[@89dungey]

$10k more? That’s over 20% more than the golf. Better off getting the superior rs3

[@hanzen5174]

@@89dungey bmw are more reliable then merc and audi/vw. add to that just better cars imo, and there is a lot to be had on the msrp as well

[@JacesOwnWorld]

340i is a much better car! Good choice

[@JacesOwnWorld]

@@89dungey at RS3 prices, you might as well buy an M2 or M4 lol, because Audi’s are so soft in sports car terms, compared to BMW

[@89dungey]

@@JacesOwnWorld rs3 walks an m2 and m3 & m4. I’d even get a c63 amg over and bmw. go watch jdmovernight and watch all the rs3 beat anything over 500+ hp

[@BOOSTEDDUDE]

Interesting review. I think it's the first negative review I've seen of the new R. I think it's also the first time I heard Matt say it didn't give him the "giggles". I thought the new haldex improvements would of made it more fun in the turns. Thanks for putting in the external drive by shots.

[@TheSmokingTire]

You can def. feel the rear diff working in the turns, shoving you through it. It's a pretty cool feeling. But a simple lack of understeer doesn't make for an exciting car - ZK

[@BronchoGillespie]

Pretty much opposed to any other review I’ve seen or read.

[@josephcitizen4195]

I'm between the R and a 230i. I'm "moving up" from a manual Veloster N. I want a more comfortable highway commuter. Before the Mk8 was released and the reviews came out, I thought for sure it was going to be the car for me. This review has more than likely sealed the deal. I do wish I could afford the 240i or the S3 though. Anyone here have the '22 230i M-line?

[@muskistutter]

@Joseph Citizen Your going to miss that quick steering rack I tell you. But maybe that's not what you want anymore in a more comfy highway communter. Why not consider a Kona N as well? It's DCT and let comfy (and that's coming from a Mk7.5 Golf R ownership!).

[@josephcitizen4195]

@@muskistutter The Kona N is deff on the list. Here's my list btw in order. My budget is ~$45k give or take a few and I'm ready for a quick auto. (sorry boys, the feet and knees are getting old. 1.) 230i M-sport 2.) Golf R 3.) GR86 (traded a '16 FRS for the N because I was tired of no power and harsh ride) 4.) idk Others I've thought about. MX-5 RF (way to small inside) Supra 2.0 (looked at one this past weekend, way to small inside and claustrophobic, and dark, very dark interior) Kona N (kinda want to get away from the red lower trim. I wish they would offer to have that all blacked out or body color) Elantra N (not really a 4-door guy and what I said above) Civic Si (not enough power and 4-door, no hatch) Accord something trim (bleh) S3 ($$$) WRX (no hatch, ugly) What am I missing?

[@DSquared45DM]

@@josephcitizen4195 not sure if you are strictly shopping new, but if you’re open to used you should seriously look at a Mercedes GLA 45 AMG. I’ve never driven one but from what I’ve heard they are basically the Golf R formula but even nicer. More power, Mercedes interior, hatch usability. New they are stupidly expensive but nice used ones are in your budget even in this crazy market. Worth a look for sure! Also there’s the new Integra coming out, which is really just going to be a Civic Si hatch with nicer interior materials and maybe an automatic of some kind

[@5serieslover]

@@josephcitizen4195 I'm in the same boat as you. Also considering the GTI and saving ~10k.

[@Thekobeowns]

Please do not listen to these reviewers. I was super worried about selling my 7.5 for the new mk8 r. I almost didn’t buy the car and started looking at other options. Then I test drive it and it is better than the old model in every single way. The infotainment being bad is complete bullshit. The infotainment is so great and once u get used to it in 1 day or two it’s amazing.

[@Coronerlex]

the "Sport" mode is the default in the new R. The auto transmission is set to "drive" while in "sport" mode preset. If you tap the shifter down into "sport" auto mode, then tap the paddles, it won't change back to automatic until you change it yourself.

[@codyjump8142]

This is true, I own one.

[@slow8r]

Matt did you know that the newest 8Y S3 does not have the torque vectoring rear diff? NO WAY it's better performing than the Mk8 Golf R.

[@bryce4778]

I have a Mk 7 R currently and to me I wouldn't trade in mine for one of these. In Australia these Mk 8 R's are pushing $80k, where the mk7.5 was maxing out @ $65k. I don't think this car is worth the extra $15K over the Mk 7/7.5, especially considering the interior is a step back and in the real world, its not that big of a jump performance wise.

[@roach362]

If you are after a turbo 4wd hatch, can also get the GR Yaris in Aus for about 50k and they're hitting 10s with bolt ons. Not released in the US though, missed out on a banger.

[@Thekobeowns]

I sold my 7.5 r for the mk8. I was also worried because of how all the reviews were talking about how horrible the touch controls and infotainment system is. When I got the car I quickly realized within a day or two that it’s way over exaggerated. The mk8 is better than the 7.5 in every aspect. The interior is way better than the old Gen. The screens, the responsiveness, the features, the layout the buttons all really really good. The seats are significantly better than the previous generation. Steering wheel feel and look are better. More roomy inside. And then the drivetrain and the way the car drives is night and day better than the 7.5. I love the mk8 over my 7.5 and it’s not even close. These reviewers are in some sort of cult or something trying so hard to fight for physical buttons and are acting like old boomers when new stuff comes out. They had me scared as shit to get the new model but i love it way better than the 7.5.

[@davidk5093]

So which one should I buy what year is the best?

[@Thekobeowns]

@@davidk5093 having the previous Gen 7.5 and just bought the mk8. The mk8 is much better

[@ENDCT-mx5ei]

In Canada these are only $46K, we get the cheapest R's in the world.

[@MikeCostanzo12]

You lose the new torque vectoring rear diff with the new S3 compared to the Golf R, though. Gotta step up to the RS3 if you want the TVD in the Audi.

[@codyjump8142]

Plus you have to pay a lot more for the fully loaded S3 to get all the amenities of the already fully loaded Golf R. If you don't want the torque vectoring rear diff, want to pay way more to equal same the amenities, and you're obsessed with soft touching materials in the cabin then go for the S3. I saved my money and got a lot better looking Golf R.

[@bladerunner6662]

I considered the Type R, but frankly I couldn't get passed the exterior design. It just looks juvenile.

[@daddycereal]

GOOD MODE should be in all cars. Matt is 100% right about this

[@matty18972]

I find the complaints about the Civic Type R's look in 2022 interesting. In a world that continuously produces more boring and derivative design (i.e. Golf, most VW products) should we really take the CTR's looks as a mark against it? Even if you are a soulless shell of a drone, if you get one of those you could at least be distinctive from all the other even more drab yuppies that will take the Golf or S3.

[@tzukima]

good point. even if you don’t like it, at least it makes you feel something.

[@ButtKickersReviews]

Totally subjective, but I wouldn’t be caught dead in a new CTR; it looks childish and ridiculous IMO. It won’t age well; nobody will want one in 20 years, again IMO. This looks ‘European’ and classy. I can’t imagine spending real money on something ugly like the CTR. But again, that’s just my opinion maaaannnn 🤷🏼‍♂️🤣

[@elvisrobles6203]

The ctr is plain ugly design language 🤮, its caveman , the veloster N is what the ctr should be

[@josephcitizen4195]

"...should we really take the CTR's looks as a mark against it?" Uh, yea. There are better ways to make a car more interesting and 'distinctive' beyond the absurd way Honda tried to do it. The new Hyundai and Kia EV's are the first cars that come to mind.

[@jasonblevins9327]

@@ButtKickersReviews I agree with the first half but usually ugly distinctive cars are the ones everyone wants in 20 years.

[@ilimit]

Another valid question: Who would pay Golf R markups? Similarly spec’d we would need to go Prestige trim for the S3 to be comparable, feature-wise, to the R. I believe the S3 doesn’t have the torque vectoring capabilities as its sibling either? Then again if you’re paying $50k for an R, why not consider S3 and m240i?

[@reidconti]

Bought an Mk7 new and folks said the same thing then. You're paying for the AWD, the feature set, the all-around brilliance. I didn't want to pay for the Audi or BMW badge, but instead for a great car. Mk7 has the 6MT, the S3 did not. S3 and M240i are sedan-only, which is a turn-off.

[@GoBrand0n]

The BMW 240i is a Smart Buy..All Day Everyday

[@NGMonocrom]

$5K over the GTI?? Screw that! Get the base S trim of the GTI that comes with all the performance goodies, except Summer tires; and save nearly *$15K!*

[@krane15]

And void your warranty. In addition, none of which will operate as well as those that are factory install.

[@kimboofdzners9574]

Savagegeese stated the opposite, way faster than the Type R. On paper, you are ballz out and you are not breaking a sweat. Zero giggles, exactly, is one solid platform.

[@Dou6.2]

What?

[@kimboofdzners9574]

@@Dou6.2 Read! Watch Savagegeese review and it is for the manual, and they confirmed is faster than the Type R.

[@troystein2404]

It’s an absolute rocket and the figures are very understated.

[@faugrad]

Matt loved the MK7 R and is mixed on the MK8. That’s telling.

[@BourneMiami]

While I agree on the infotainment controls…the new S3 doesn’t have the new awd system and it’s slower. So you are paying more for less performance but a better infotainment I guess…

[@michaelday6987]

Re-watching after this morning's post.

[@nozopoke1782]

Everyone complains about this car but I’m pretty sure it will still sell out

[@krane15]

Correction: everybody complains about the infotainment. They like the car just fine.

[@pgdbrk06]

Typically dealers are wiling to haggle on a GTI, whereas the R is sold near MSRP. So the price difference between an Autobahn GTI and an R is probably more like $8k. Or $16k if you compare to a base trim S.

[@ilimit]

With the increase in front brake size, I doubt my 17" winter setup would fit in the MK8.

[@reidconti]

Even on the Mk7 I had to make sure I bought 17s that fit, so yeah, I'm sure it's right out on the Mk8. I bought 17s for snow and 18s for PSS for the summer. Gotta ditch those boat anchor 19s with 35 series tires.

[@ShadowBend]

I have 17's for winter on my MK7 with perf pack. I think those are 13.4ish brakes. Its a tight fit, no way 17s would fit on new golf R.

[@shaglioni]

I have to say, I enjoy the dialogue the two of you have in this video for this car. Good stuff. Now I'll check out the GTi video for that 8 minute crap on fest for the infotainment. Thanks fellas.

[@jimmyglea]

To this old guy, the whole thing looks pretty sweet.

[@ravennexusmh]

Fee weeks ago i saw a golf r wagon used as unmarked fast response police car here in the uk

[@JacesOwnWorld]

Completely agree with what they said about spending the extra money for an Audi S3. There are too many gimmicks on the MK8 R that really don’t matter. It performs better than a stick MK7/7.5 R, but not better than a tuned 7/7.5 R which we all know is cheap to get there. Also, the interior of the MK8 is just bad. Really bad. So if you want a better stock, AWD Euro car MQB car, go with the Audi S3. You’ll appreciate the car so much better inside and out.

[@johnnyh788]

No torque vectoring on S3 tho, only rs3

[@JacesOwnWorld]

@@johnnyh788 does it really matter though? How often will you realistically be pushing the car hard enough for you to really need torque vectoring? Not very often. Its nice on track or pushing very hard in canyons, but I guarantee you a non-torque vectoring AWD setup is perfectly fine for 99.9% of people. Its almost a gimmick tbh. hell, even AWD is a gimmick. Nobody really needs it.

[@darrenprior6339]

I loved my MK7.5. One of the best cars I've ever owned. Sadly it got to the point where it came time to trade it (I don't keep company cars for longer than four years) but the MK8 was still not available. However, after watching so many KZbin videos about that hideous MMI I'm kinda glad I didn't opt for the MK8 which is sad, because we've been a VW family for many years.

[@Thekobeowns]

I sold my 7.5 r for the mk8. I was also worried because of how all the reviews were talking about how horrible the touch controls and infotainment system is. When I got the car I quickly realized within a day or two that it’s way over exaggerated. The mk8 is better than the 7.5 in every aspect. The interior is way better than the old Gen. The screens, the responsiveness, the features, the layout the buttons all really really good. The seats are significantly better than the previous generation. Steering wheel feel and look are better. More roomy inside. And then the drivetrain and the way the car drives is night and day better than the 7.5. I love the mk8 over my 7.5 and it’s not even close. These reviewers are in some sort of cult or something trying so hard to fight for physical buttons and are acting like old boomers when new stuff comes out. They had me scared as shit to get the new model but i love it way better than the 7.5.

[@stevemiller1626]

Just drive one and see what you think.

[@darrenprior6339]

@@stevemiller1626 Unfortunately the MK8 doesn't come with a stick shift in Australia so I bought a Toyota GR Yaris instead.

[@Thekobeowns]

@TheMetalGuy852 yea I had the 7.5 r as well. Gotta see the car in person. Looks great

[@Theferrariguy]

My parents have an id3 with the same infotainment system. Honestly, it's not as bad as you think or what's been said about it. Plus VW have been working very hard on improving it and listening to customer feedback

[@georgimihalkov4781]

I have a MK7 GTI and when I test drove the MK8 was blow away by how downgraded the interior felt and the idiotic infotainment. After that I couldn't care less about how it drives, you just can't have one if you've experienced the last generation.

[@C0ACHMAYNE]

Lol all I care about how it drives, who cars about stupid buttons

[@EvoraGT430]

@@C0ACHMAYNE Most people, sadly.

[@georgimihalkov4781]

@@C0ACHMAYNE Oh yeah, when you daily drive it and sit in traffic, the driving experience is so much more important than interior quality and the interface.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

@@EvoraGT430 Not sadly. Understandably.

[@phillipsmith1489]

You can SEE how cheap this interior is. This is going to be one of the biggest flops in recent memory.

[@RubyisCute]

Matt, as a bigger guy how comfortable are these bolstered seats? I sat in the GTI and felt like the seats were much snugger than the GLI. Is it supposed to be tight?

[@Psgatlanta]

So glad I got one of the last R’s new in 2020. Between the addition of the tune, Remus exhaust, intake stuff and an upgraded rear bar, it makes it an absolutely fantastic daily car. After 47,000 miles in 22 months it still puts a smile on my face and is an easy car to live with. Sad that the MK8 was a swing and a miss. Looks good at least.

[@Thekobeowns]

I sold my 7.5 r for the mk8. I was also worried because of how all the reviews were talking about how horrible the touch controls and infotainment system is. When I got the car I quickly realized within a day or two that it’s way over exaggerated. The mk8 is better than the 7.5 in every aspect. The interior is way better than the old Gen. The screens, the responsiveness, the features, the layout the buttons all really really good. The seats are significantly better than the previous generation. Steering wheel feel and look are better. More roomy inside. And then the drivetrain and the way the car drives is night and day better than the 7.5. I love the mk8 over my 7.5 and it’s not even close. These reviewers are in some sort of cult or something trying so hard to fight for physical buttons and are acting like old boomers when new stuff comes out. They had me scared as shit to get the new model but i love it way better than the 7.5

[@Psgatlanta]

@@Thekobeowns if you’re happy, I’m happy for you. Mines got enough screens in it already and I’m a sucker for buttons, knobs and switches. Just glad you didn’t buy a Type R or Hyundai.

[@Thekobeowns]

@@Psgatlanta trust me I totally get it! I loved the ac controls and the simple buttons on the 7.5. But honestly the system is designed so simply that when you get used to it. I just hate how all these reviewers are talking like it’s a deal breaker. It’s gonna stop people from buying this amazing car. I’ve had zero issues with the volume, with the temperature, with the ac either. The touch screen is super responsive and smooth. The ac controls are layed out very simply. The steering wheel controls are smooth when you slide your thumb. The interior isn’t all fancy and unique but it’s simple, it’s clutter free and feels solid. The seats are night and day better than the old one and the car is more roomy. I was considering looking at other cars the way people talked about the interior. Then when I actually got it and tested it I realized they just have a vendetta against change and non physical buttons

[@tedjones403]

@@Thekobeowns Well said, I love my 2022 Golf R and love the new controls. I leave the air con on 70 auto year round - why play with it? Also, when you hit the lighted climate center button the full AC controls come up digitally on the center screen...

[@kimboofdzners9574]

​@@ThekobeownsMy is not tech savvy at all, she has the new Q7, it is just like the Golf R, no buttons, and within a day or two she navigates everything flawlessly. We all manage mobile devices, none have buttons, besides maybe to turn them on and off. I have driven both, and the MK7.5 feels dated.

[@fderon]

Interior looks cheap as hell. I'll be keeping my mk6 R for a bit longer. Or look for a mk7.5.

[@ScurvyMcGruff]

What were they thinking? And all those glossy black capacitive touch buttons are terrible to use and look at.

[@fderon]

@@ScurvyMcGruff the buttons, the plastic... No thanks. Would be nice to see some more options for exterior colors too.. seems like they're phoning this gen in.. and just relying on mk7 success.. disappointing. More power and brakes is nice.. but if everyday usability is worse then I'm not really interested :(

[@oppos727]

Less fake satin chrome will do that on camera. In reality, the materials feel comparable except for some key areas: A pillar coverings and the rear upper sill molds on the doors (hard plastic instead of soft). I sat in one back to back with a MK7 R. More minimal, less black plastic. Just a different design. The leather is definitely higher quality.

[@rich2579]

I’m in the same boat! Apple car play, reverse camera, and a few other tech mods in mine to delay a new car purchase lol. And big turbo mods incoming to keep it interesting for me

[@3for4PA]

How many MILES on your 6 R frank🤔

[@maninblack9857]

The interior looks like an Audi A3 with a 911 shifter lmfao.

[@stevenyia2778]

👍🤡

[@ilimit]

When was the last time we’ve seen Matt eager to get next. He was already out the door ready to take the MK8 for a spin 😄

[@DwainDwight]

I have one. Love it. personally don't care about infotainment. I throw it around and just fun

[@aceofspades6667]

This would be a good turo car to rent with the stick. Get it for a weekend and enjoy it but send the crap infotainment system back to the owner.

[@BrendanEvan]

Ha! That’s the plan

[@BronchoGillespie]

VAG group have been using Hankook tyres for a few years now in Europe, my 2017 A4 came with them.

[@SwapBlogRU]

I didn't even notice the audio issue. Perhaps because I was listening to the video in the background.

[@TimsEnthusiastGarage]

This has me pretty bummed. I was going to get one but this is pretty much my worst fear. It should feel special, it should communicate. I drove both the A5 sport back and S5 sport back and neither of them had the fizz either. There is a weird lack of greatness in the sun 55k range right now. Great review gents

[@AndrewReilly]

Go used and get something special 2 - 4 years old

[@TimsEnthusiastGarage]

@@AndrewReilly I had prior versions of the Golf R. Unfortunately I am looking for a driver with warranty and the latest tech. Perhaps year 2 or 3 will see some welcome revisions

[@wl2486]

I’ve driven the A5 SB as rental cars and I actually really liked it. Wish the steering was a tad bit sharper and the brakes just a little better. Other than that, seemed like a fantastic daily

[@TimsEnthusiastGarage]

@@wl2486 wierdly, or all the cars (golf r , GTI, S5 SB and A5 SB, I liked the A5 the best. The nose felt less heavy than the S5 and it felt quicker to turn. Idk. Seat time is hard to come by these days

[@wl2486]

@@TimsEnthusiastGarage damn, that’s actually disappointing. I wished the A5 had quicker steering and my guess was that you had to step up to the S5 to get it.

[@ScottPC]

Hancook is normal OEM tyres for VW AUDI here in Europe. I suspect the R is built in Europe hence the tyres?

[@LGNYR]

The Hankook is supposed to be one of the OE options

[@talonfast25]

As an owner of both the MK7 and MK8 Golf R I prefer the new interior over the last generation. You need to own the car to get familiar with the infotainment system, then you will love it

[@codyjump8142]

The infotainment system is so easy I start to worry about the IQ level of those who can't figure it out.

[@joetacchino4470]

Hankook Ventus were OE tires on my Mk 7 GTI.

[@Iwo26]

As a daily driver this is one of the best cars out there.

[@davidbarfield3489]

I was going to buy one until the dealer marked it up $10,000. Maybe next time.

[@krane15]

I hope you told him that. Never pay over sticker for any car. Be prepared to walk.

[@JM-nz8gw]

"I wouldn't trade in a MK7" exactly...

[@nigel.w]

Unfortunately, Beardscape offer will not ship to UK.

[@ravenstylea2]

Aside from the 1" larger front rotors, The mk8 R now has 4 piston front brakes vs the old single piston on the mk7 R.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

Who really cares if it doesn’t brake superbly well…

[@tyler9703]

Think I'd rather just put better brakes on a 7.5 and not have to deal with the worst UI of any car on sale today.

[@blueryxfalls7949]

It doesn't have copper so it has to be bigger.

[@mqbr22]

@@tyler9703 It’s not as bad as everyone makes it seem. Climate control would be nice if it was controlled with something like a button or switch or physically in any form and way

[@will_l]

They are now 2 piston brakes, not 4 piston. Huge 357x34mm rotors though.

[@A-GoldenBar]

Looked and this video and the 2022 honda si video. The 2022 honda si is my choice. Less HP , but the driving experience is what it's all about for me.

[@Notorious1000RR]

Do you like the focus RS over new golf r?? And do you still have focus RS?

[@jamiepybus9498]

That Orange light on the front wing is tacky.

[@texx1017]

bought a 21 7.5 GTI last year. One of the last ones in my state. Couldn't be happier. But last month, Carvanna offered my 4k more than what i paid for it. Hmmmmmm

[@CubanRider]

It goes from Manual to Drive mode because you have to set the DSG into Sports mode before switching to Manual. Having the car into Sport mode does not automatically put the DSG in Sport. Big downgrade from earlier generations where we could use the shifter to shift manually. I wish they would do something like BMW with a small shifter; it would be cheaper and less obtrusive than the previous generation shifter, but still gives the driver more control.

[@Zorrolord]

You should revisit the Golf 8R with the 20 year version overhaul, they did a ton of micro improvements to get an overall better experience with the car and fixing a lot of issues with the new platform.

[@shaglioni]

There really isn't a difference with the 20th anniversary edition in the U.S. versus the standard R other than aesthetic changes.

[@kimboofdzners9574]

imo, he should revisit with a tune and exhaust

[@porscherain]

I’ll never sell my MK7.5 now.

[@PHFilms3]

MK8 drives so much better lol…. Keep your MK7 values inflated tho better for mk8 owners 😊

[@GethinJames]

What about the fact that it can be had in a 6MT?

[@gavinsullivan9015]

Here in Aus this is a 60k car. If I had to have one car it’d be one of these in the wagon version we get here. As it is I’ve gone used 2 seater and a used SUV for the same money

[@240fxst]

Fuk off mode sounds right . 7.5 series R is by far good enuf without the nonsense capacitive buttons like the Tesla plaid . A bunch of bullshit to me. I want a car that’s just good off the lot .

[@jc944t]

Yup, thanks for the review and you confirmed what everyone has been saying ... stick with the Mk 7! With the mods I've done to my Mk 7 GTI, I can blow away any Golf R and with the winter tire set, drive it all year round with no problems. Mods cost 5.5k total ...lol

[@wfujay3946]

Yeah, and with $5.5k in mods on an R, it "bL0wZ aWaY" a lot of cars that are more expensive than it too, while driving all year round with no problems. Such a stupid comparison.

[@jc944t]

@@wfujay3946 Is it “stupid” when you compare the difference in cost between the Golf R and GTI? 10k? Not to mention the difference in weight … 200lbs? Golf R is a good car but isn’t it just a cheaper version of an Audi S3 ?

[@tedjones403]

@@jc944t When, due to equipment levels, you compare the Autobahn GTI to the R the difference is less than $5K - which is apples to apples. I have driven both and am delighted with my choice - a 2022 Golf R manual.

[@jc944t]

@@tedjones403 I think you misunderstood the 5.5k in equipment levels. It's 5.5k in modified parts to include a Golf R turbo and winter tires. I live in Germany and have no issues with traction. Congrats on the 22' Golf R ... again they're great cars.

[@doriangray2347]

Should i pay at least +$5000 adm? $10k is what they normally have without negotiating hard. 20th anniversary edition?

[@TylerSavin]

Honestly thought my old FA20 made torque early but damn 1900rpm aint bad.

[@ilimit]

Very interesting to hear your overall opinion about the GTI and the Type R. As Matt stated in the previous video, Car and Driver released their Lightning Lap results for 2022. GTI was 8 seconds slower than the R, and the LE Type R was 4 seconds faster than the R. I was wondering what your overall thoughts are on the MK8 R vs the G42 m240i that you just drove. I know Zach stated it was much more quieter in-cabin.

[@alang13]

Five grand difference between GTI and R? Isn't it much higher?

[@JCTiggs1]

I'm not sure about US pricing but in Canada.. 2022 GTI DSG = $34K CAD 2022 R DSG = $50K CAD The R is absolutely not worth $16k extra (plus the extra 12% tax).

[@onkedilz198]

In the South African market it's common for VW group cars to come with Hankook wheels

[@jackal2513]

You guys not getting the clubsport ?

[@mattlau]

Starting to real like this car. Miss my MK7 GTI

[@robteal8362]

I have yet to actually see and touch this infotainment system but the complaints remind me of when phones went from buttons to touch screens. People were not used to the system but now everyone has a touchscreen. I wonder how much of the problem is just a learning curve as opposed to actual bad ergonomics. Long story short I really wanted to like this car enough to justify the price tag...

[@MarcraM82]

way more feel in the mk7 steering. driven this and its sterile, no engagement. better to buy a used mk7 or 7.5 and tune it, which will still be more power than the mk8.

[@jasonblevins9327]

the 7.5 R steering is beyond dead already.

[@준봄이]

New is always better. Only mk7 owners are QQing and say they would stay with mk7. As a mk8 owner, that is funny lol

[@MarcraM82]

@@준봄이 "new is always better" 😂😂😂👏

[@wl2486]

I think the fact that a CPO BMW 340i exists is this car’s biggest problem. I couldn’t imagine choosing this instead of 6 cylinders, rear wheel drive, and a luxury badge.

[@Nate-Aims]

The B58 cars can’t handle like this one can. Reason why I sold my x3m40i and disregard the m340i after a test drive. They are pretty numb in driving experience. This R is pretty damn fun and I’ve had much more smiles in this.

[@codyjump8142]

I own a mk 8 Golf R and I simply don't know why people are making as much fuss about the infotainment system as they are. I think it's very exaggerated. If you know how to use a modern cell phone then you know how to use the infotainment system. The fact the temperature and volume "buttons" aren't lit up is a nothing burger. volume is generally always changed via the steering wheel. And the AC?? Generally you set the temperature on auto and then tap up or down a couple of times to change it varying degrees. Takes maybe a second to do. Anyone who likes to twist the temp knob all the way right or left and then manually change the fan speed are people that still don't know how to use the auto temp. As for the steps it takes to turn the ESC off, you can just program that button as a one of your "preferred quick buttons" then after that all you have to do from then on is select it by swiping down on the screen no matter what interface you're in. Again, takes a second or two. What's actually annoying are cars that don't have touch screens and only use a single twist knob, enter, and back button to scroll and scan through every function of the car.

[@krane15]

Because you own one, so you're not objective. Besides, once you've learned the system its always easier.

[@kenjymon]

RUINED? SERIOUSLY? I recently traded my ‘17 GOLF R, for the new ‘22 R. Still in awe of how vastly improved my ‘22 is over my 2 previous Rs! Just about every reviewer, (including above), are bitchin’ about the infotainment system. I could not disagree more! It is simple to learn, and perfectly integrated into the dash. Those rides that have it standing tall above the dash totally suck imho. To have the above jokers considering an S3 over an R? GTFO :)

[@psiturbo]

msrp?

[@DouEditz]

12.5 @ 111mph for a golf R stock the world has gone mad... so with a tune its going 11s in the 1/4 mile lol.... what happens when all the cars do the same things!?

[@OlJackBurton]

People really tune their brand new VWs? I guess they trust VW reliability and have no need for warranty. Almost any new dual motored performance EV can give you sub 4 second 0-60, 12 second times real world (just step on the pedal and go) instead of launch control, .3 seconds of roll out and professional launching and shifting technique. But apparently, the EVs don't have give the giggles either, at least different kind of giggles (whiplash/stomach issues to your passengers)...

[@DouEditz]

@@OlJackBurton You are completely correct! I believe the the EV will totally extinct this category of vehicle once more people realize the performance and cost savings. Anyone interested in “ hot hatch “ thats now $50k should just go invest in an electric car. The model 3 performance…. Is about 80% more car than this.

[@KP-xi4bj]

@@DouEditz Current EVs are one trick ponies, e.g. only fast in a straight line. Guess what's the fastest car on the Nurburgring? Clue: it ain't an EV.

[@DouEditz]

@@KP-xi4bj i know You haven’t even driven a Model 3 base

[@KP-xi4bj]

@@DouEditz And? It doesn't change the fact from a handling perspective current EVs cannot match their ICE counterparts on a race track.

[@shanec8224]

Matt Farrah, do you prefer the DSG or the MT?

[@stevemiller1626]

GTI plus APR tune?

[@RedondoBeach2]

If a person is trying to figure out if they should buy the MK8 R, they're wasting time. I stopped by my local VW dealership parts dept this weekend. While at the dealership, I asked if they had the R in stock. They told me they received one R the week before and it was sold with a $12,000 mark-up before it arrived. They also let me know all dealerships in the US were only allocated a maximum of just 1 (one) R for model year 2022. Folks, the R is sold-out already. If you didn't pre-order one, good luck finding one. You'll have better luck putting your name on the waiting list for a future year model if VW continues production. Due to the technology put into these vehicles, combined with the ongoing chip shortage, if the car was available, I would have passed. Manufacturers are surely having to cut corners to make software work with whatever substitute chips they're able to get their hands on. Why pay a premium for a high tech, limited production vehicle with potentially mediocre semiconductors. No thanks.

[@josephcitizen4195]

"...if VW continues production." Let's hope they do a mid-first year refresh. I would love to hear about how VW execs are handling all this bad press. I watch a lot of car reviews and I've not see a single one that gives the Mk8 a good review.

[@whatmakesittick8362]

"...IF VW CONTINUES PRODUCTION." Yes. They have already pulled the regular Golf models from US production. We are left with the Golf R and GTI. These new ones with all of the problems Zack and Matt point out won't sell past the honeymoon phase of buyers. Once the hype of the new models fades and the awful touch sensing buttons and poor feedback have made buyers remorse set in, these models might just fade away too. Sad times for VAG!

[@tedjones403]

@@whatmakesittick8362 Nonsense!

[@whatmakesittick8362]

@@tedjones403 poppycock! 🤣😂

[@whatmakesittick8362]

@japanwatchconnection I can’t say you’re wrong! I’m happy they are selling. Long time VAG owner, 10 cars deep over decades

[@scotts6702]

Appreciate the honesty and I absolutely agree that. me? GTI is the way to go especially for someone like myself that lives in Arizona or I could care less about all wheel drive or winter type scenarios ever. I'm waiting for the Acura Integra which I think will be the perfect compromise between a civic SI and a GTi. I cannot believe that Volkswagen completely screwed the infotainment pooch with this mark eight 7/22 EDIT: finally saw a beautiful Integra. Backseat was an issue as far as headroom is concerned. that might be a dealbreaker. also, the dealer markup was extreme putting this car out the door at almost 50,000. there is zero effing chance I buy one of these. I wish I could find a GTI... That's close to MSRP

[@anderwsa]

Type R wont have anything on an R i drive

[@nicholasvonrhine6311]

We all get caught in the same slow moving traffic. SO I ask myself is the extra power relevant.