Have Car Companies "Innovated" Themselves Out of Business

[@HowMoneyWorks]

Start creating for free at www.odoo.com/r/T48. Trust me, you’ll find it’s never been easier to share your passions online.

[@KevinFu5100]

I think you have the wrong sales-pitch for your sponsor here it reads like something for Skillshare or similar

[@satania1058]

I thought I wouldn't praise a KZbin ad in my life but, as a software engineer with some contacts on the ERP/CRM industry, odoo is actually a really good product. The people I know that integrate this technology on companies are really happy with it and I'm thinking about pivoting to it myself. I wish every channel had relevant ads like this.

[@komisiantikorupsikoruptord6257]

Old companies better give up. And let Chinese companies compete.

[@NoWayjose-e9k]

Why would I trust you, faceless KZbinr?

[@catacocamping874]

@@komisiantikorupsikoruptord6257 👈100 percent china spy

[@Galloway8786]

Car companies decided to design their cars for a world that is much richer than the current one. Now they are shocked that they can't sell anything.

[@quademasters249]

There's a story that Henry Ford paid his workers enough, they could afford the vehicles they built. These days, pay is getting worse and worse and companies are now shocked people can't afford their products anymore. What we're seeing is what happens when most of the economic gains flow to the already wealthy leaving the average person behind.

[@NiteshadeX2]

​@@quademasters249eventually it ends in cannibal raider gangs hunting the wastes for man flesh.

[@marsmotion]

@@quademasters249 bingo

[@thanosianthemadtitanic]

yea who would have thought 100k mass produced cars was a bad business model

[@SpicyBoba7431]

@@quademasters249 Politicians put a lot of requirements for OEMs to follow. You think they want to build electric? You think the fact that every single car needs certain technology is not something they would ignore if they could?

[@elmateo77]

Why hasn't a single company realized there's a huge market opening for cheap, simple cars that can be repaired at home without the need for complex electronics?

[@beekauzh669]

Because alot of the complex electronics are legally required by different countries

[@elvisfranca4759]

There is no money in that.

[@elvisfranca4759]

@beekauzh669 also that. Now every car needs backup cameras, lame departure warnings, auto emergency brake,... This things add up cost, not to forget the emissions equipment.

[@Robbedem]

Dacia ? (part of Renault)

[@FireStormOOO_]

Because they're basically not legal anymore. You'd have to figure out how to meet all of the emission control requirements without a fancy computer controlling the engine, and still need all of the required safety features, several of which also need computers.

[@David.Marquez]

It was so over the moment they started charging subscriptions for things such as seat warming.

[@tomlxyz]

I have a feeling that such stupid subscriptions might work one day when younger generations no longer know how it used to be. Just like pay to win used to be frowned upon in gaming, its all normalized now

[@kwyatt261]

Actually, the beginning of the end happened when engineers decided to start making mechanical parts follow orders from computers

[@HowMoneyWorks]

They did technically roll back that decision... for now...

[@csibesz07]

The thing is, once something is subscription based, the company's goal will be to make the product longer lasting, now it is the opposite. Also it would also make our infinite growth less of problem. Now, growing means producing stuff and throwing them away, so workers are paid.

[@gierrah]

​nd they could always reintroduce it with a software update. Don't buy anything that can be over the air "updated" (bricked) without you having any input

[@Jake-jd7bd]

I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again. The 2000's era of cars was the perfect car (2000-2010). Those cars have everything you need and use with very little fluff that you won't use and cause problems when it breaks. And if they're missing something you want, they're designed so that it's easy to work on and make changes to. My current car is a 2007 4Runner that I've had for 8 years. It's got AC, heat, ABS, great crash-test rating, cruise control, TPMS, electric controlled side mirrors, electric seats, sunroof still works, I was able to install a nice stereo on my own (if you want apple play/car play, that's an easy plug and play installation), installed a backup camera, and a few other creature comforts over the years. Nothing is broken, everything still works. The entire motor and drivetrain is OEM with nothing having needed to be replaced at 210,000 miles. All I've really done is normal maintenance stuff like oil, brakes, coolant, filters, tires, etc. It doesn't get the best MPG, but what's the point of buying a new car that will save you $200 a year on gas if you're spending $1000 more a year on maintenance plus the associated costs of actually buying that car? For the climate concerned folks, having one car for years and years and years that requires little maintenance and less MPG has a much smaller carbon footprint than buying a new car every 2 or 3 years.

[@JohnZornAscended]

Those years haven’t been quite feminized yet either. That was a good run. I’ll be driving those model years until they try to outlaw them.

[@andybaldman]

The 2000’s were peak humanity. The best of a lot of things. Not just cars.

[@8.6GivenAdqVacSysm]

Quality (silly features aside) took a huge nose dive pretty much from 2009 on. It seems like nobody is even pretending their cars aren’t junk! I hope and plan to never drive a car newer than the 00s. As you said the cars are actually built OK and are straightforward and yeah you can add the few actually worthwhile improvements pretty easily. I mean you could add many of those features to a 70s car also but some of that might be sacrilege.😂

[@mb4lunch]

That's why I drive a 99 Forester, an '05 Outback, and an '03 Town and Country Van for my work vehicle. Super cheap to own and insure. More fun to drive than new crap

[@AndyRodriguez-ln1dj]

Although I agree with you, the only downside I can see to having an older vehicle is the lack of safety equipment. The use of curtain airbags, knee airbags, seat airbags, radars, and blind spot modules may drive up cost and prevent vehicle accidents, but you’re most likely to survive a bad wreck in a newer vehicle opposed to an older one.

[@zwerko]

The biggest 'innovation' the car companies added that will keep me off buying a new car for a long, long while is 'touchscreen everything'. I don't feel safe operating a vehicle where I need to jab a touchscreen just to change the temperature or music volume and I will not buy a car that doesn't have its basic features controllable by a physical switch/knob that I can muscle-memory in.

[@Shvabicu]

Yeah, that should be regulated. You're not allowed to use your phone at the wheel but your car is basically a phone on wheels. Car OEMs just use it to cut costs as it's cheaper than physical buttons.

[@Praisethesunson]

@@Shvabicu I can't modify a car touchscreen to display the information I want to know about the car. Because it's a literal felony to mess with the car's software. But I can buy an attachment so I can watch Netflix on that same screen while driving. All major Car companies in North America deserve to go out of business.

[@SwagFactory2126]

It's a long term cash grab for service centers too. People aren't going to be going to a service center if your radio goes out, they might just buy an aftermarket head unit or live with it. But if the center infotainment screen goes out and takes your A/C, car play, and backup camera with it you bet the average person is going to get it replaced. Those center screens are usually manufacturer specific and can cost in the thousands of dollar range. Used Lexus center screens are going for $5k+ on eBay! It's crazy that in 10-15 years infotainment screens are going to be what's mechanically totalling out vehicles.

[@boomergames8094]

@@SwagFactory2126 Seems obvious to me that you are correct.

[@JasbirSingh-zj1fg]

@@SwagFactory2126 In 10-15 years?? More like 3-4 yrs.

[@logantcooper6]

Funny how manufacturers never figure out how to innovate in such a way that they can lower prices.

[@Acteaon]

Never!

[@ThatGuyWayOverThere]

With rising costs, that just mean firing more people and replacing them with robots.

[@Seeker794]

It's cheaper to make them all the same, it's not cheaper to then sell them at a lower price. The game is the cut costs while charging the same or more.

[@logantcooper6]

@Seeker794 understood, just curious as to at what point it is more beneficial to sell more units at a lower price.

[@GF-mf7ml]

China make all in one ECU and the chassis is just battery the west ShOcKeD. Japanese make all in one ECU in 90s for engine.

[@Demetri25]

6:31 This little segment is a perfect example of the issue . "average new car" while showing a bmw, mercedes, and audi. The average person cant even think of buying one of those vehicles and just want a reliable new car that doesnt cost a fortune.

[@Bikini_ST]

Doesn't change the fact that the avg price of a new vehicle is 47k.

[@Praisethesunson]

@@Bikini_ST You can't do averages well. Because that average includes the cars the rich buy. Meanwhile China is making 20k EV's that are better than "luxury" cars in the U.S. Americans are all being fleeced for the profits of the rich. While the rest of the world is just making literally better products.

[@kukuc96]

It's not just a problem premium brands. The cheapest Volkswagen Golf (you know, the brand literally named "The people's car") starts at 29k Euros for the absolute base model, no extras whatsoever. Even the cheapest Toyota Yaris starts at 25k. Like what the fuck. Just over a decade ago a cheap new car was like 10k. Comulative inflation certainly isn't 150% since then, so I would like to ask the car manufacturers WTF happened.

[@TrondelagianPatriotsriseup]

​@@kukuc96 Government introducing more and more regulations and also giving the companies an excuse to put up the prices. Especially bad when the governments are doing this because of the UN resolutions

[@davidnika446]

@@kukuc96 In the U.S. no new car was that cheap 10 years ago. The cheapest one right now is about $17,500 but the out the door price is probably a good amount more in reality.

[@sgtusmc1sgtusmc266]

What’s so hard to understand. People want cheaper more reliable cars! Everyone is sick of going to criminal car dealerships for overpriced unreliable cars that are only built to last just long enough to make it past a warranty date.

[@DewtbArenatsiz]

But the Cabal wants everyone to own nothing and be happy

[@adamyami2902]

US: EVs are too cheap; we need to have 100% tariffs on them. US: EVs are failing because they are too expensive for people to buy them. Just because the US is boycotting the EVs doesn't mean they aren't succeeding around the world.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

I want a reliable, economical, simple to drive vehicle that will get me from A to B in reasonable comfort. It does NOT need to talk to me, have an "infotainment" system whose instructions take up literally half of the handbook, or advise me to take it to a main dealership if a tyre loses a little pressure, and it DEFINITELY should NEVER remove my control whenever it chooses to.

[@daledude66]

Try a 2006 Toyota Camry

[@nguyep4]

A dumb car can't compete. You are not the majority buyer. How many would buy a dumb phone? Few and that is why dumb phone aren't being produced.

[@emptyshirt]

@@nguyep4 Dumb phones are being produced. The phone companies didn't lobby the government to require phones to have gyroscopes, GPS, Bluetooth, wifi, and a camera, and so you can still get a phone without that.

[@Groza_Dallocort]

​@@nguyep4they are still being produced and cost about $50

[@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986]

Smart phones are generally affordable for normal people and they don’t try to take over there own function without your input. Modern cars feel like they’re trying to drive themselves and the driver loses control and they are wholly unaffordable for a lot of the population.

[@Tsukasa_Kudamaki]

The market: always wants cheap cars that work and are reliable Car manufacturers: ok so we're gonna do the exact opposite and overprice the few cars we do sell to make up the loss

[@kenon6968]

the idea is periodically revisited and always fails.why buy some new shitbox when I can buy used?

[@Abracadabra-sy8rk]

​@kenon6968 that's exactly why it'll never work. Why buy a new shit box when you can buy a well maintained used car with more features for the same price.

[@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline]

​@@kenon6968The base models are too expensive for most as well!

[@kenon6968]

@oftensalty it's a huge problem, I agree, but it still doesn't improve the regulatory situation or economics of selling a barebones car.

[@mortsdans]

I think it's become impossible to produce cheap reliable cars because of government regulation. You can get 35 mpg or a reliable engine. Throw in a bunch of safety tech like required backup cameras, stability control, tire pressure sensors and more requirements on the way, not to mention harsh restrictions on emissions, it's only going to get worse. This is a government created problem.

[@JayRu594]

They fucked up when they announced they would discontinue sedans and only produce SUVs

[@GF-mf7ml]

Unless road tax by weight it'll destroy all SUV.

[@gk5891]

Follow the money. Car - 20% of Market $38,000 - Avg Sale SUV - 60% of Market $46,000 - Avg Sale Truck - 20% of Market Avg Sale - $60,000 Chevy and Ford simply couldn't demand the correct price per volume to make a profit. The simple fact is Honda without what most would consider a traditional type truck sells two Truck/SUV/MiniVan per Car in the USA.

[@EnriqueAThieleSolivan]

That is one important factor.

[@ulfosterberg9116]

The car design is done by pot smoking dropouts who dont have a driving license, nowadays.

[@ashvandal5697]

I’m confused why though. 90% of people in my area drive trucks and suvs. Especially the larger ones. Pretty rare to see an actual car anymore.

[@maxguercia]

The problem with EVs is that they require owning a house. I live in an apartment. There is only a few charging ports in the whole town. Why the hell would I ever buy an EV when there is no infrastructure in place for them.

[@billgateskilledmyuncle23]

You will toss an orange extension cord out your window and hope to God nobody unhooks it in the middle of the night for that 2% of battery life, just enough to get to work on.

[@andybaldman]

They are not meant for you.

[@bgomers7]

82% of American’s have access to off street parking, auto makers will not care about 18% of the total addressable market.

[@icemike1]

​@@billgateskilledmyuncle23that's one reason I don't like how they look and they're priced for the rich

[@Navoii.]

Charge it at work or something. If someone disconnects it, you’re not in the right place to have an EV at all. It’s never happened here, never heard of, or seen anyone do it

[@M1911jln]

No, Jaguar’s ad did not receive “mixed reviews.” It was universally panned.

[@rotagbhd]

🎯

[@DimitrijDaniel]

The "mixed reviews" was irony :)

[@steveharvey2001]

@@DimitrijDanielsarcasm

[@baatile]

It did not bother me, hypersensitive right wingers were the loudest, so it looks like everyone hated it. They seem to take everything way too seriously.

[@stevenweiss2148]

A guy parked his 1968 C10 pickup truck next to me recently. It was a perfect size..next to these overblown gigantic pig boats next to it

[@OiCCaboose]

You don’t even need to go back that far. 2001 Chevy S10.

[@SU1C1D3xPR4D4]

@@OiCCaboosehell 2001 1/2 tonne from any of the big 3 or even Toyota were perfect! Big enough for big boy tasks, small enough to fit in a normal garage.

[@no1DdC]

@@SU1C1D3xPR4D4 Unfortunately, they are all death traps, most even by the standards of their time. That's the major downside of many small, efficient vehicles designed in the '90s. Example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIjFZ2mGr9Gdhpo The other downside is quality (with American vehicles from the time), especially regarding interiors. These were built as cheaply as possible and it shows.

[@noahziegler3478]

​@@OiCCaboosemy lifted 4Runner is as tight as you can get a newer lifted off-road vehicle that actually performs. Next to those bloated grocery Getters I always see at Costco.

[@needsmetal]

Blame the government for the size bullshit of today

[@smallbutdeadly931]

My biggest issue is that most dealers will only sell big trucks or SUVs, whereas there are rarely any with smaller vehicles besides used car dealers.

[@auraguard0212]

They don't meet emission standards. Only the big cars meet emission standards.

[@bw9382]

Buy a goddamn Toyota Camry its not that deep

[@DR_1_1]

Inequalities are worse than ever, cars are not for poor people, they can only afford a bike, or public transportation...

[@NicholasMulvaney]

That's due to how smaller vehicles are taxed higher so the prices end up so close that you might as well get the bigger car.

[@akshay5569]

It's just a US thing

[@poly_g6068]

The market isn't dumb. They're not buying cars they can't afford. That's smart.

[@luckyjayakody]

Yes. Next, smartphones and electronic device manufacturers are going to learn the same lesson.

[@mashedpotatos3750]

I hate current cars bro i dont need to drive a big fucking computer.

[@-schattenpflanze-3755]

Dont worry, soon the computer will drive you.

[@grigorioschristodoulou5229]

lol, yeah, for a monthly subscription that definitely won’t get descoped and double in price every year like Netflix and Co…

[@Code7Unltd]

@@-schattenpflanze-3755 To quote a certain Smirnoff... "America. What a country!"

[@bw9382]

When I can start playing doom, while having a video essay in the back, while driving then I'll change my mind

[@sbutte1127]

It already does when you think about it.​@@-schattenpflanze-3755

[@OffWhiteDaz]

The real problem is 50+ different car companies trying to make what is essentially the exact same car. Design is dead. Every vehicle in each category is basically the same badly designed car. Each car company should just pick a category and do it well instead of doing every category of vehicles badly

[@IFRYRCE]

This is the government's fault more than anything. The net effect of the combination of emissions/mpg/crash safety laws is that one shape and type of car is optimized to meet them all, so everyone shifts towards that type. That's also why cars are getting bigger, because the way the laws are written perversely incentivizes manufacturers to build the largest car that will fit into a given class of vehicle.

[@grigorioschristodoulou5229]

Very good point. And everyone and their mum moved upmarket, just because BMW and Mercedes were doing well (and larger more expensive EVs can have more range). Guess what, there’s no space there for everyone, there’s only so many people that can (truly) afford to buy or lease an 80-100k car. And a lot of brands don’t even have the brand image for these new price brackets!

[@1donbuster]

​@@IFRYRCEExcept that's simply untrue. SUVs are terrible for safety, efficiency, and therefore emissions. While the regulations are poorly designed, the SUV is designed to skirt them, not abide by them. Companies need to be held to the standard of making efficient cars, rather than calling every vehicle a light truck.

[@bwofficial1776]

@@1donbuster Companies are going to make what their customers want. If customers want SUVs but a company only offers sedans, they're not going to sell many. Consumers chose SUVs.

[@bobsteve4812]

@@bwofficial1776Customers only chose SUVs because marketers and corporations successfully pushed them to. Until relatively recent CAFE regulations that aren’t applied to ‘light trucks’, sedans and other small cars sold very well.

[@somebutter6755]

It’s weird how there’s technically so much more choice in the car market now, but if you want something that’s not a gray hybrid SUV you’ve got slim pickings.

[@brokenhalo22]

Also because you've got 8 different versions of the f150, 8 different rams, 10 silverados, etc. Tons of "choice", but it's mostly "Barbie with a new hat" trucks and suvs.

[@johnpetrakis379]

Or white with black trim or black on black or one of the weirdo arid bizarre "bug colored" ones wtf!

[@DewtbArenatsiz]

Big fat blobs driven by ....

[@kennygaming208]

Mazda 3 AWD hatch, Toyota Corolla Hatch, Subaru Impreza, Subaru WRX automatic, Subaru legacy, Honda Accord, Kia forte GT, Kia k5 AWD, Hyundai Elantra N, Hyundai Sonata N, Chevy Malibu, Cadillac CT4

[@jacobwhite1360]

Main thing to take note of - if the US or UK government EVER dares try and do a "Cash for Clunkers" or "Scrappage Scheme" we violently protest it. Between both countries hundreds of thousands of reliable, and more than likely in most cases repairable cars were destroyed for absolutely no reason at all in the mid 2000s. This has cost us a large portion of the second hand market, and cars could genuinely be 50% cheaper than they are today. If they do this again, we have no choice but to be buying new cars and manufacturers can no longer be trusted to deliver. Stay aware folks, learn mechanics and drive a shit box you can repair.

[@PokeFit3]

💯

[@ClaytonBridges]

I used to be a mechanic and Ive been saying this for the past 5 or so years As a tech, its heartbreaking because every customer that comes to you or any other mechanic always feels like theyre being ripped off. But the truth is, the shop owners, the mechanics, and the customers are all getting ripped off. Theres so much tech and innovation, and so much proprietary BS that its practically impossible to make prices acceptable to the average consumer. I actually asked this in one of my technical trainings, talking about stop-start systems. I said "Hey, with all of this insane tech thats being added into cars, wont this raise auto repair prices as well as the car prices themselves so theyre priced out of affordability to the average person?" I mean, my grandpa backed out of his garage and snapped his mirror off if he did it in his 1980s square body chevy truck, the replacement mirror would be two bolts and $25 on his early 2000s hyundai, it had to be paint matched, and carefully removed because its plastic, $300 if he did it on a 2020 car, the mirror would have a camera, sensors, warning lights, motors, it would be paint matched, etc, and cost over $1,000 All of the new technology in cars stem around two things: The environment, and safety. Car companies and newer car technology is bending over backwards to meet these standards being set. Its so demanding that car companies have found it easier to get around these regulations in a myriad of other ways

[@docvolt5214]

Fuck the environment and fuck safety. V8 is freedom

[@boomergames8094]

The environment and safety are 3rd and 4th to profits this quarter, and profits next quarter. Most of the top execs get paid big bonuses for meeting profits, not safety.

[@fairextl]

​@boomergames8094 Well, it's expected, especially when the market is becoming more and more volatile. I can assure you though, safety and environment regulations only tighten the loop more, and it's everything else, but profits, that will budge.

[@JedPotts-jv2ux]

its all government regulation, toyota can make and sell the hilux champ for $14k while making a profit, but you can't buy it in any english speaking countries because it lacks "safety features" that half the cars on the road today don't have anyway because they were sold before those features existed. we're paying 2-3x more for cars than we should be, and its all because politicians change regulations like a popstar changes clothes, and they force automakers to include annoying "safety features" that can't be turned off, and buyers constantly complain about these "features" because they do not want them. its insanity. buyers want reliable cars, efficiency is secondary to reliability, and if carmakers don't have to constantly update their vehicles to comply with a neverending onslaught of new stupid bullshit regulations, prices can come back down. if they're worried about emissions, plant some goddamn trees and leave the cars alone.

[@johnpetrakis379]

you know it's like later generations "Gen Z'(guess that's the latest, and whatever was immediately prior) need "training wheels" for their lives

[@aab4219]

All electric Jaguar? What will they leak?

[@HowMoneyWorks]

Headlight fluid

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

Profit

[@Nic7320]

Electrons...

[@Denverian]

electricity

[@duancoviero9759]

Your kids college money...

[@NCGNTO202]

They let soccer moms win by turning everything into an SUV, killing the sedan and pushing oversized trucks. They practically forgot how to make cars. They make tablets with wheels now.

[@mitchellcouchman1444]

Larger cars are also easier to engineer for crash standards and in a vacuum are safer. They are also more ergonomic to get in and out of (aside from the largerest ones). They do everything so become the everything car. Much of the issues is actually regulations requiring sales of EVs which have as presented far too optimistically, have failed.

[@microcomputermaster]

Light trucks are exempt from most pollution emissions standards, and automakers convinced the federal government to classify SUVs and pickups as "light trucks" despite the category being intended for commercial reasons. SUVs and pickups also have the highest markup compared to the cost of production, even before we factor in emissions technologies, so automakers aggressively marketed them. And now that there are so many SUVs and pickups on the road, and because they keep getting bigger and potentially more dangerous to other drivers in accidents, the need for perceived safety is now driving people to buy SUVs purely to protect themselves from OTHER SUVs on the road.

[@aidanfriedfeld8889]

@@mitchellcouchman1444actually SUVs and any vehicle classified as a “light truck” doesn’t have to abide by the same emission or safety regulations that normal cars do. They don’t need to meet the same bumper height or collision compatibility standards that other cars do. It’s why something like the cybertruck can exist. Basically SUVs and trucks are the safest for the driver and the most dangerous for everyone else.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Sedans just got worse. I just got to drive my brothers 2016 Camry XLE V6. Man it's a blast to drive and had so much power. Handles a lot better than my SUV. However it's so low to the ground. The roof is at your head and the back seat and trunk are pretty worthless. For how large the car technically is it's very impractical. Sedans are all about style these days. People can only afford one car. And a SUVs deisgn is just better for transportation. Think back to why the orginal cars from the early 1900s were built like SUVs tall and with a two box deisgn. We are simply going back to how cars use to be. There is a place for Sedans. However they just dont make logical sense for your one and only car if you want the best all-rounder. People don't care about handling. The do like comfort and practicality. To be fair quite a few SUVs these days buck what I said and are fairly dumb. Buyers have spoken and sedans just simply dont appeal to them you can of course blame automakers. But its the consumer that had the final say.

[@Minatory-Skinless-Skinwalker]

I LOVE SUV

[@BenG33]

The moment a dipstick wasn’t included I knew not to buy a new vehicle. 😅

[@JohnZornAscended]

Nasty bastards.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

I just purchased a new vehicle. It has a dipstick.

[@BenG33]

@ purchased or financed

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

​@@BenG33 Cash sale. I borrowed $3k in desperation to buy a used car just after I'd bought my house in '99 and went through my "disaster fund" (on disasters!) in just a few months. The final straw was my old clanger catastrophically failing. I had no money left. Every week I would physically draw out cash from my bank and take it to the bank next door to pay off the darned car loan. Every week for close to eight months. Never again. We had the house paid off eight years later and never borrowed another cent for anything. I hate debt.

[@BenG33]

@ yes my friend you sound market educated and know that debt is a sin. If only people knew interest and how it works. Sounds like you got affected by Enron and I miss the 99 house prices it’s like what you are paying for a car now prices. Enjoy your hard earned dipstick.

[@SpontaneouslyDeliberate]

My current car goal is for my 2010 minivan to make it to 300k miles. I'm at 260k now. I have a newer car as well, but having paid off vehicles has always felt more satisfying to me than having an expensive one.

[@DMKleinArts]

Gonna see if my 2012 Toyota can hit 200k+. 120k so far without a hiccup, regular maintenance goes a long way. Its fetting to the age where im gonna need to watch certain parts, but if i keep the engine safe, it'll run another decade.

[@jasondashney]

@@DMKleinArts to be fair, any piece of crap should be good without any major repairs at 120k.

[@jenisonsound7563]

My 2009 Camry just hit 250K and I plan to drive it right to the "end".

[@chogardjr.]

Exactly! I have a 2005 Trailblazer that I can get the engine and transmission rebuilt for less than a down payment on a new car. Why the hell would I part with this to take an unnecessary risk on rushed, bloated and unreliable electric or even new ICE vehicle? There's literally no reason as I can install most of the features in the newer cars in my 2005 myself and NOT have to pay a subscription to use it. They should have all learned from the Sirius XM and On Star mistake.

[@MotoStylus-z8r]

@@chogardjr. The reasons are monetary. Consider you have a task of driving around, say, 1 000 000 miles. Your choices are 1 "eternal" Toyota with an UZ engine (TLC, Sequoia, Tundra, that sort of a thing) that does 15=20MPG and will last you 30 years / 1M miles vs 3 newer vehicles doing 50-60 MPG and only lasting 10 years / 350k miles. Depending on where you are, what your eco-norms and your fuel costs are, you might be better off driving newer vehicles. In fact, it is like that more often than not these days around the globe, on average, unless you live in a petrostate with deliberately cheap (due to subsidies) fuel "for the masses".

[@igneous85]

Motor vehicles are appliances. Not many people replace a dishwasher, fridge, washer, or water heater until they have to.

[@a_Fax_Machine]

A dishwasher is not a status symbol though. American culture is "Keeping up with the Joneses," which is why it's so popular to do something so economically poor as to lease a vehicle.

[@CowboyJuice]

@igneous85 they are treated as investments financially but appliances in the real world. It's an asset. If you are good to it, it will return its value

[@maestrulgamer9695]

​@@CowboyJuice "The market is getting stupid again" Check that video.

[@a_Fax_Machine]

@Michael-pi8ps not nearly as big a status symbol as a car.

[@marcvb3364]

I think cars being a status symbol is a thing of the last, younger generations feel more identified with other symbols and don't really care

[@JB_Hobbies]

The real reasons the auto market is in distress are: 1) manufacturing and retail deciding to exploit a short term supply shortage by massively hiking prices without considering the fact that the long term health of the new auto market depends on demand in a used market where people can actually afford to buy something. 2) the fledgling EV market that desperately needs mass adoption from a consumer and infrastructure standpoint decided to go the premium route instead of economy. The reason everyone and their mom has a car is the implementation of the assembly line, which allowed the mass-production of cheap cars so that anyone who wanted one could get one. EV departments apparently skipped that economics and history lesson and went straight to insanely priced cars with no operational support and worse maintenance support. Good job.

[@mitchellcouchman1444]

Electric cars aren't affordable that's why, not because they choose them not to be but the fundamentals are more expensive even if made by a Chinese company that can make you a petrol car new for £5000. They failed in the mainstream markets as they were 50-100% more for an electrified version but as the car price goes up, the cost of making it electric becomes less significant ~20-30%. That's why electric cars are being jammed into the luxury market as car manufacturers have been mandated to sell EVs and per my above point that's the only place they sell.

[@whitewall2253]

EVs are far more expensive to produce than standard cars so they have to go luxury.

[@adrianocs4]

We are adopting EV before the support technology matured. We need news kinds of batteries, better motors, better charging, more infrastructure and cheaper manufacturin process for all of that . Before all of that turns into reality EV is a trap.

[@PYTwwe]

@@whitewall2253 I don’t work in the industry, but I always thought it was the other way around.

[@mitchellcouchman1444]

@adrianocs4 motors are already a mature technology and so are lithium ion batteries. Both have seen deminishing returns every year, solid state batteries have failed to really materialize as envisioned and most of the recent improvements have been in refinement of the designs which are also showing deminishing returns. Its not "not matured" it just isn't up to the task. And don't get me started on how power has skyrocketed recently destroying the long term cost argument.

[@TurbulentJuice]

Instead of consumers driving innovation in the auto industry, the companies themselves feel they need to tell us what we want. To me it demonstrates that large corporations believe the public are so used to being herded around like cattle that theyll buy whatever is dished out in front of them.

[@JohnZornAscended]

It because of corporate socialism. Half the population warned the less knowledgeable not to buy it. Now they complain about being constantly tracked and having their where abouts sold. They basically asked for it.

[@markc7899]

so cool you shout out your employee's channel. respect!

[@HowMoneyWorks]

I always preach about looking after the people who work for you, so it's really the least I could do.

[@raze2012_]

Pretty cool. Also kinda funny how I watched the recommended video already and got the vibes of HMW. Guess thst explains a lot 😂.

[@bubblegodanimation4915]

@@HowMoneyWorks I actually ran into them on their video on bullshit jobs before you brought them up!

[@jyapp4489]

@@HowMoneyWorks absolutely awesome. That's the kind of behavior we need more of in the world.

[@spike2794]

I just sold my 2017 Ford F 250 to a dealership. It cost me 1045 to just change the spark plugs and wires. I bought a 1993 GMC Sierra. LIfe has become so simple and affordable. Simple to fix and I paid cash for the truck.

[@Callsign_Sturm]

Easy easy easy suspension to rebuild. Infinite swappability for engine parts as well. Good choice. Pretty sure you can forward swap parts of suspension and brake system as well if you do it correctly. I have a handful of cars from those years I'll never sell.

[@brianrolfe1742]

I'll keep my early 03 F250 7.3L PSD with the ZF6. I'll also keep my 2011 Fusion AWD SEL 3.0L

[@lowlifeangler]

I work on my 2007 Malibu to drive to work M-F

[@Rodrigo-jd2wg]

based

[@PYTwwe]

Greed is the main reason. There was always an unspoken agreement between brands and buyers: they’d release a new car, raise the price by a few hundred dollars, and we’d happily upgrade every 3-5 years. But after COVID, companies got greedy. They decided to boost margins by producing lower-quality, cheaper cars (look at the new cheap interior materials and touch screens) while charging significantly higher prices. I’ve stopped buying new cars, even though I could afford anything within a $100K budget. For example, the Porsche Macan used to start at $48k, but now the same base model is priced at around $65k. Let’s not forget that most car companies still rely on the outdated dealership distribution model, which adds even more to the problem. Dealers not only inflate prices but often refuse to move inventory.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

It is taking me around a year to pay off a 5k car I am getting as a backup car, and I work full time. My current car was basically $2500 (well I paid nothing, but traded a car for it straight trade that I paid $2500 for).

[@dallasgombash5381]

Look at truck prices lol

[@GF-mf7ml]

Every new model add price. Even same engine and chassis. Some of them downgrade from led to bulbs still add price. Replace front bumper call it facelift.

[@GF-mf7ml]

​@@dallasgombash5381price like Porsche

[@mr.coffee6242]

I stopped buying cars after i bought my first one. A 2012 model... Why would i change, it still runs great, no rust, never changed anything but oil, brakes battery and now the timing belt. It has almost no modern electronicity. And i paid 16 795$ for it. Brand new in 2012. Why would i ever change before it goes bust? Its like my fridge, or washing machine... Yall insane changing every 3-5 years

[@teacfan1080]

My 21 year old Sable still runs beautifully. A little rust on the rear wheel area but other than that, it's mine and I plan to drive it until only the frame is left!

[@Bioniking]

Audacious to assume the average F1-50 driver is actually using their bed

[@YerBoyTroy]

I mean if you've sat in the cabin of one of those it's pretty easy to forget theres a bed in the back 🤣

[@svuvich]

But how else would they bring home a family size pack of toilet paper

[@jasondashney]

And of those that do, 95% of them could get away with the Toyota Tacoma. Almost nobody who has an F150 tows jack, and far fewer than that actually require the entire size of the bed. They are just SUVs with less seats the way the average person uses them. Source: I come from truck country. The Ford F150 is far away the biggest selling vehicle here.

[@Jazzmaster1992]

​@@jasondashney Base F150's and Tacomas are very similar vehicles. The Tacoma is technically a re-brand of the widely popular Toyota Hilux , which was sold under a different name in North America as the "Toyota Pickup" until they decided on the Tacoma nameplate. Its whole purpose was to compete directly with everyman pickups like the Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado. What's truly overkill for most guys is Ford Super Duties, but to be honest, most people who need to do "truck stuff" don't actually need more than a Ranger or Maverick.

[@wh0_am_152]

They do, for that 75"+ tv they buy every year

[@Zapruderfilm1963]

If possible the key is to drive and maintain a vehicle 2006 or older in order to keep AI and the intrusion of smart technology OUT of your vehicle.

[@HowMoneyWorks]

The only problem with that is that safety features have come a long way since 2006 and it's hard to get those good features without the other less welcome additions.

[@Zapruderfilm1963]

@@HowMoneyWorks most vehicles from 2002 to 2006 have air bags. Features like collision avoidance systems and other related technologies aren’t needed for the average consumer. Are they nice? Yes, but needed? I’d argue they’re not.

[@Userxxx840]

@@Zapruderfilm1963I’d say collision avoidance would be a good thing in the event that the driver passes out or has a medical emergency. It can lessen the damage.

[@mitchellcouchman1444]

Pre 2000 imo

[@tristan7216]

09 Camry no AI and has antilock brakes. Only thing I'd like is a backup cam oh well.

[@celieboo]

I just need a manufacturer to make a small Sedan or a hatchback. That's what I've driven for the last 20 years and that's what I will continue to drive for the rest of my life. I will buy from whoever produces them.

[@alecjo7]

Mazda still makes the Mazda 3 sedan and hatchback. It's small, efficient, reliable, and reasonably priced. But Mazda is one of the few brands still selling small cars in the US

[@colinhobbs7265]

Toyota and Honda still make standard hatchbacks, and the Outback is a damn good station wagon if you need that.

[@3_character_minimum]

There are plenty of them...

[@notarabbit1752]

@@colinhobbs7265 well the Outback seems to get bigger every year, and Honda has phased out the Fit in the US and replaced it with a crossover SUV version

[@yrnx9334]

Mazda3 exists brother

[@craigzuidema]

Part of thud problem was consumers too willing to over spend on crap they didn't need.

[@ChondroMan]

As someone who loves trucks. I don't want to pay a 100k for a truck I'm going to drive to work and here and there. They turned them into status symbols more than they are practical. I don't care for the bells and whistles. CD player and radio and AC and heat. That's literally all i care about. Everything else is just something that'll eventually be unfixable.

[@cyclewithsteve6202]

Why can’t we have new Kei trucks? We can on.y get them once they reach something like 25 years old. New trucks l8ke that would destroy the big three’s market.

[@Jynx1927]

@@cyclewithsteve6202tbf it would kind of impractical to have them because of their overly-small size

[@fix0the0spade]

The car Industry has tried to turn cars into iPhones that last a few years, then have to be replaced without being repairable. Except cars cost a lot more than an iPhone, whilst people who buy new cars partly fund them by selling them to the second owner, who funds their next second hand car by selling onto the third owner etc. Can't do that with your new car? Nobody's going to buy the new car.

[@Praisethesunson]

@@fix0the0spade Thank you! Finally a sane comment. This is the problem in a nutshell.

[@Corgiking521]

New cars last way longer than a “few years”. They are more reliable now.

[@Praisethesunson]

@Corgiking521 no they aren't. Western market Cars today have digital locks that strip away your ability to repair and maintain them yourself.n

[@fix0the0spade]

@@Corgiking521 More reliable, but less repairable. That's important, someone with a 10+ year old car (which is the majority of car owners in the US and Europe) likely can't afford a repair bill in the high thousands or low tens of thousands. Yet for a lot of recent cars (and EVs especially) that kind of bill is distinctly possible.

[@boomergames8094]

@@Corgiking521 As soon as that ipad touchscreen everything controller stops working, is out of warranty, and they want $5k to fix it, we'll be seeing a lot of perfectly good reliable cars in the junkyard because their touchscreen doesn't work, and they don't make it anymore, and it would be illegal and nearly impossible for anyone else to write all the software and make that computer.

[@vladislave7826]

We hit a point where car reliability is too low to swallow. 200k km should not be the target for vehicle longevity. 30k oil change intervals certainly are not helping.

[@elmateo77]

Yikes, i change my oil every 10k. Didn't realize people did it 30k, that's gotta be rough on your engine

[@trooper59]

​​@@elmateo77 Even 10k recommendedation makes me nervous ngl. Even though I run 0w-20 in the engine

[@quademasters249]

@@elmateo77 Oil is significantly better than it ever has been. The amount of oil in engines has increased with the extended intervals too. That said, I'm moving to 7500 mile intervals which is about 11K km.

[@vladislave7826]

@@elmateo77 it is even worse on your turbo

[@vladislave7826]

@@quademasters249 as long as the oil does not look like tar at the end - it's fine. The problem starts when nothing comes out on the drain plug and there is a jelly thing in the sump.

[@patrickporter6536]

They concentrate on the bells and whistles, the car itself is just something to carry said bells, whistles, and more bells and whistles.

[@BrianPetersen-l2w]

This is what happens when vehicle production is lead by short term thinking MBA's instead of designers and engineers.

[@Thiccron]

Honda Civic starts around $40,000 in Canada now. Its absolutely wild 😂

[@MotoStylus-z8r]

A bit shy of 30k USD for a Civic? Is it 24k gold plated?

[@Thiccron]

@what does a civic cost in the states these days? No gold plating unfortunately 😂

[@MotoStylus-z8r]

@@Thiccron $24250 MSRP for 2025 Honda Civic LX (with a 2.0 liter K20C9 naturally aspirated engine).

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

Honestly just get a Mazda 3

[@ilfaraone91]

WHAT?! 40k for a civic? Holy shit

[@CocoHutzpah]

I guess it's off topic for this video, but it really burns my ass when I see legendary rally names, like Quattro or Ralliart, slapped on badge-engineered SUVs or crossovers.

[@stainlesssteellemming3885]

Imagine how some of us feel about the new Mini Coopers. We used to race and rally them back in the 70s

[@marcvb3364]

All brands are being milked until the last cent, nothing else matters

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

Mustang, MG, Eclipse, Cupra, hell even Polestar used to mean something. Now it just means "We want our electric SUV's to sound sporty" ...I'm gonna give the MG Cyberster a pass tho. At least it's trying.

[@nikitakucherov5028]

Jaguar commercial is like throwing a hailmary pass but launching the football 🏈 towards the wrong endzone.

[@Cookingwithteargas]

I really could not care less that my truck is "out dated". Its paid off and its reliable. It doesnt have dual climate, infotainment, heated seats etc. I connect to my phone, listen to tunes, and can haul most anything i need. I work on it myself as well. Edit: its a 2011 ram 2500 diesel

[@GF-mf7ml]

2011 pretty new for 3rd world country. In my town most work cars are 30+ years old. Truck are luxury vehicles.

[@Cookingwithteargas]

@GF-mf7ml definitely true. I'm just referencing in the video how it talks about needing a new vehicle because yours is out dated or redundant. That's all fake. Fix them and keep them on the road.

[@lonelychameleon3595]

"Disruption" in tech just means that they'll find new ways to charge you more for a worse product.

[@polla2256]

So you still use an old Nokia ?

[@kurticusmaximus]

Every time I see videos like this, I shake my head at the comments. “Where have all the good cars gone?” You didn’t buy them, that’s what. Yaris, Fit, Versa, xB, fiesta, focus, all going away because Americans don’t buy cheap small cars.

[@lv7603]

True words. People want bigger at cheaper prices which doesn’t make sense. Same goes for labor people say they support it but don’t like prices increases due to better pay.

[@joe718gt4]

It's like when people say they manual transmissions and wagons and nobody buys them anyway

[@raze2012_]

Gotta carry some stuff and people in my car. And I'm already a big person. Can't really afford to grab a Smart car for times I wanna just minimize my footprint becsuse I'll inevitably need a sedan at the minimum for many cases.

[@mustang8206]

Those cars suck

[@smitias_8474]

@@raze2012_ Smart is really bad example for cheap small car - to make an A-class car you have to spend more than for a B-class. It's so small, that it gets more expensive. B-class is where cheap small and usable cars are.

[@jwetzel3141]

Everything in business and government tends toward complexity because of so many people needing to be paid. More regulations, more complexity, more parts, more people.

[@JohnZornAscended]

They made that bed not the citizens. It can never be sustained.

[@borghorsa1902]

LEss regulation means that capitalists will pay you a few loafs of bread per week and will fire you as soon as you breath too much. You would have nobody to complain to

[@komecon7975]

yeah its a big orgy

[@agodelianshock9422]

The LinkedIn people going "Wait actually no, Jaguar are genius marketers I swear!" are so insufferable

[@kenon6968]

Jaguar has virtually no brand equity, one commercial isn't turning around decades of directionless either way

[@robertrussell3264]

It's mostly psychological. My 15 year old car (inexpensive) is a joy to drive as I have maintained it very well. My taxes and insurance are minimal and my bank account is pretty healthy. The key is that I honestly feel proud (rather than shame) when I park it next to expensive cars at nice restaurants.

[@skillbopster]

Your old car won't last forever. Then what?

[@sconescrewdriverson]

@@skillbopster The day of reckoning will come soon enough for all shopping the used car market. It is only then that people will be interested in buying a new car rather than a Honda Civic with a rusted frame and electrical problems.

[@JohnZornAscended]

@@skillbopsterThat’s why other forms of transport exist, hater.

[@JohnZornAscended]

Sounds like you won.

[@JohnZornAscended]

@@sconescrewdriversonWhat part of nobody wants that shit don’t you get. The profit margins will remain abysmal, until they stop trying to force cake down peoples throats. Those zombies with a fist full of money can only keep the company floating for so long.

[@chrisalm7031]

My friend just asked to borrow some money because he accidentally paid his car note twice this month. The car note: $950. I was like WTF are you driving? A Corolla. 😵‍💫

[@bw9382]

@chrisalm7031 quasimoto fan spotted name evry album cover he is in.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

too much even if it is the GR

[@a11312]

Thought you were going to say wtf that he had less than $950, especially with a $950 car payment

[@banzaipiegaming]

When I was considering buying an EV, what was the most astounding thing to me was for how "advanced" media and the salesman, claimed it to be, it was the exact opposite. It was quite literally a regression both in features and tech. They were trying to sell me just a big, shell of an RC car with an iPad in it and called it high tech while it having 50% less features than a gas sedan at twice the price. For 50k it didn't even have individual seating and atmosphere temperature control which is just a basic thing in most upscale gas cars have at again, half the price. I did my homework before going in an knew for a while of the notorious battery issues and safety issues of these new cars as well so I expected that if they were going to sell it at such a high premium they would ensure a ton of high tech features like they made broad sweeping claims about. That was 4 years ago. Now I don't give a fuck what's powering it because I can't afford to. But I walked off that dealership realizing this is exactly why these car manufacturers are going out of business since nothing has changed since then. They either must be really that stupid or think we are that stupid or both.

[@kunalkolhe20]

6:20 EVs are actually way less complicated than Gas cars, its just the car companies who are not allowing any independent mechanics to work on the cars by locking them down

[@legozfordayz]

Whether it’s ICE or EV, by making SDVs (Software-defined Vehicles, where the value of the software and technology in the car is greater than that of hardware components) it is easier to lockout third-party/non-official mechanics since the only place where you will be able to fix the vehicle and get the latest firmware will be in the Ford, Tesla, etc. dealership, essentially erasing mechanics from existence, like what Apple wants to do with its electronics. They genuinely plan on making the car of the future a tablet on wheels, where you don’t really own your car, paying à la carte to access features via software (FOTA) like heated seats or faster 0-60 time, features you technically paid for in full when purchasing the vehicle but are locked out due to a software paywall. It is unbelievably dystopian and we are very screwed indeed.

[@GF-mf7ml]

They design suck, everything fit inside battery compartment, if small things fail like a fuse they have to drop the whole battery to fix it. When China show up with all in one ECU they act like never seen a RC car.

[@mennol3885]

@@legozfordayz That's why we need regulations that ensure and protect ownership. Just like in the EU when it was forbidden to lock down phones with a payment plan. And if the phone was technically locked down, because it was not easy to change the SIM card, it is your legal right to go to a phone repair shop and have them unlock *your* phone. I don't like the EU, but this is one thing they did right. Also *all* regulations that require companies to lock down parts with internal processors *need* to be scrapped. Freedom over safety.

[@Banzai51]

Which they've been trying to do with ICE cars for years.

[@emptyshirt]

@@mennol3885 The auto industry is a government enforced cartel. All of the regulations are designed by "industry experts" to set the rules of the cartel, which are mostly about making sure that only rich people get a satisfactory experience, and they pay out the nose for it.

[@kugodx9]

Even evs don't need majority of the shit in them. I use a Kolter ES1 pro eléctric motorcycle. It has no bells and whistles, just two batteries, a motor, and speedometer. It goes 70mph and only was $5k. It's absolutely perfect. Now do this with cars please

[@uglyjihad]

That's a motorcycle, I love motorcycles but they cannot safely carry 2-6 people, your cargo and keep everything comfortable and happy. Plus motorcycles kinda suck on US highways (average Americans commute over 40 minutes to an hour a day for their job)

[@uglyjihad]

Plus the koller es1 cannot even achieve 75 mph and barely has the range of 70 miles, the Kawasaki ninja E-1 is a hybrid motorcycle which is suppose to solve the issue with electric motorcycles in the United States and it still struggles

[@Sterling_Silver04]

That's one of the things keeping me from wanting to buy one. It is entirely feasable to make an electric car with a gas pedal, a stop pedal, a speedometer, maybe a radio (because I like my tunes) and AC. It would have superior range and performance to a fully loaded version because it weighs less, draws less power, and it would be far cheaper to build and purchase. And that's exactly why manufacturers don't make them. They would be be superior in every way at only a fraction of the cost, and no one would buy the loaded ones. And the manufacturers know this. They want their profits that come with selling the loaded ones.

[@chuckerchuckerton7046]

@@Sterling_Silver04 Bingo, same reason Ford stopped making the Maverick, it cut into sales. Why make a few grand on a Maverick sale when you can make 20+ grand on a loaded XLT BLT MEGA RAPTOR SUPER TRIM OFF ROAD LAND BOAT F-Series sale. They know the market is begging for cheap barebones vehicles but those models don't contribute to the "MAXIMUM INFINTE GROWTH" model.

[@efitz1524]

Market forces dictate that new cars are mobile data collecting machines with the eventual plan to transition into fully autonomous vehicles. But man, I despise the iPad-ification of cars.

[@louiswilliamterminator2887]

there is very little 'market forces' involved. It's corruption driving legislation

[@emptyshirt]

If by "market forces" you mean regulations and supply chain corruption that make it impossible for new competitors to undercut the industry with a cheap standalone product.

[@OLDGUY7301]

I own 2 21 year old vehicles Very well maintained. They run great. I carry full coverage insurance. $500,000. My truck 4X4 costs $1150. a year. My xterra 4X4 costs $850 a year. Ins, maintenance, and registration. Not fuel. There are no repairs on either for 4 years. I'll keep these forever. Extremely cheap and easy to work on. No payments since 2007.

[@andybaldman]

You live in a southern or west coast state.

[@sfritts]

I'm still driving my first vehicle from high school. I'm 42. Why do people buy new cars? I understand a business or maybe someone who travels for work, but a well maintained (older) vehicle will usually run forever. If something goes wrong, parts are cheaper, and bonus points if you can diy fix it. I'm to a point I couldn't care less if car companies go under.

[@30kendel]

Bro same here still drive a 99 civic. Its rusting out because of the winters, but I have 3 other spare civic’s hahaha!

[@DewtbArenatsiz]

Because it's not a car it's an ego trip

[@sfritts]

@DewtbArenatsiz For some, it's a status symbol, and proof that they worry about what other people think of them.

[@off6848]

The main advantage is that you know the engine and parts are new. I love old cars especially 90s but they’re all beat to death and parts are hard to get an ecu for 240sx is over $1000 back in the day I had several stock ecus laying around for tuning a literal gold mine now

[@RacersRUS69]

If you live in the rust belt of America your car slowly Rots away and sadly that’s why I have to buy newer vehicles

[@duancoviero9759]

It was over the moment they said the market didn't want cars anymore, only expensive trucks and SUV'S 🙄

[@Praisethesunson]

@@duancoviero9759 Which is a literal lie. The chicken tax is the only reasons big stupid trucks even exist in the U.S.

[@thedragonofdalzell]

Every time someone says that people don't want sedans(some commenters on this video), I laugh while driving past Chargers, Civics, Camrys, Accords, BMW Ms, Sonatas, Malibus, etc. on the way to work everyday.

[@daniels2761]

​@@Praisethesunsonthe big 3 made small pickups and there are still quite a few on the road. But the margins and consumers dictated bigger is better.

[@jazzmunkyy]

I work in automotive and the saying is "we are lucky most people cant add washer fluid in their cars or we wouldn't be in business"

[@ModernForerunner]

Not sure what the saying is trying to say. If it's about people's ability to repair their cars the bigger issue is the design of modern cars and how the engine bay is so tightly packed that you can't do anything without special tools or having to pull the engine out, and the price of replacement parts. People's ability to fix things is far down on the list. Also there is no upgradeability whatsoever. Back in the day when we were still using DIN stereos you could buy a newer fancier one. Nowadays you can't do anything once the built-in infotainment is obsolete. Which BTW most are obsolete on arrival. Everything about modern cars is designed to be single use, non repairable and non upgradeable. I am happy I still don't need to go to the dealer once the washer fluid is out. I do know that many gearboxes have "lifetime" oil in them and changing it is a pain. Also reading my own comment I think even saying modern is a bit of a stretch. Basically anything 2000+ has these "problems". But hey the economy is definitely going to collapse if there isn't planned obsolescence /s

[@Gnidel]

In Poland it's part of driver's exam. Is it not required in other countries?

[@DeusTex-Mex]

@@Gabor-y3h It's easy shit to diy if you have a triple digit IQ

[@kenon6968]

​@@Gnidelhe meant it figuratively, he means many people don't know a thing about basic car maintenance and repair

[@butterfish-g9f]

@@Gnidel In my experience in the US, no. Probably because it makes you reliant on paying for the service and I wouldn't be surprised if lobbying was involved.

[@TheBengineerTV]

I have a 2001 Camry with 250,000 miles and has had minimal repairs. No fancy buttons or screens. Just heat button, AC button and gear shift. Has run like a dream for 6 years

[@philelinkosishozi656]

Bro plugged hid friends channel at the end even though they left...respect

[@Micro-Econ-YT]

Thanks for the shoutout internet video daddy!

[@federicokafeero9987]

Cute❤❤❤❤

[@Me-eb3wv]

🥰

[@Kalatash]

Please, never say that again.

[@2moke2creen]

Hey, I just subscribed to you like a week ago! Well now I know for sure why 😆

[@3_character_minimum]

1:53 Jaaagggsss... always had reliabilty problems :-P

[@smg1707]

Yes the poor ground on the gearshift was always fun.

[@3_character_minimum]

​@@smg1707 my mum had yo give her beloved x-type away due to a potentially self-destructive transmission. I loved that car, and would love to have one

[@CaligraphiVision]

Facts

[@mulalobusinge]

Same applies for land rover and range rover

[@katnez]

Jaguars the worst

[@madtinkerer]

As a mechanic and now aspiring engineer, ive seen both sides of the coin. This video covers perfectly the balancing act that car manufacturers have to face in addition to their ambitions for EVs and market disruption. One of the biggest issues that ive seen as well, that I believe is driving many of the issues is people are retiring. Many of the old gearheads and auto engineers that helped create great reliable vehicles are retiring and being replaced with inexperienced engineers. The problem with this is they dont have the hands on, raw experience with a vehicle, they just see the numbers and dynamics and crunch them. As a result, not only do you have companies that are pushing "innovation" faster than their R&D can keep up with, their R&D itself is less competent and cant rebutt or give good feedback about what the company wants

[@ZelenaZmija]

"The inconvenient truth about new technology is that sometimes it's kind of crap" If I could make a slightly broader statement, the inconvenient truth about capitalism is it has become a lot more about creating new wants as opposed to satisfying existing ones. This, with respect to cars in particular, has always stood out to me. I remember having a 98 Buick Century that my folks bought for me for a grand back when I was 18. When the repairs finally started costing more than the car, I got something newer, a 2015 VW Tiguan. First time I took it the same mechanic I always go to for service he asked what I like best about a 17 year newer car.... Cupholders

[@JohnZornAscended]

Capitalism can’t exist without a free market. The past 3 generations have no idea what true capitalism looks like.

[@mbank3832]

I will stick with my 09 Lexus. Thanks

[@fernandocamacho5088]

Scotty Kilmer would be proud

[@HowMoneyWorks]

Will probably out last everything else TBH

[@dalton-at-work]

i would too, but my fiance owes 20k on her tesla.

[@bw9382]

Real, the 09 Toyota Camry is better though

[@bw9382]

@@dalton-at-work We live in a hell world, I'm sorry for your loss

[@Threedogsinatrenchcoat]

Dont forget these same manufacturers and large dealer networks are the ones constantly lobbying for increased tech requirements.

[@Banzai51]

Creating barriers to entry.

[@JohnZornAscended]

@@Banzai51It was already impossible, lol.

[@cmdmd]

A simple online search should have warned people considering Fisker. The only claim to fame was designing the Z8 and Aston Martin DB9. They cannot make a good car, just gimmicky.

[@Peizxcv]

0:25 - that Jaguar logo is either really timely or aged like milk

[@izack0128]

Aged like a fine wine 🍷

[@christopherpardell4418]

I am loathe to give up my 2005 Audi TT 3.2L. No touchscreens, no infotainment, no turbo, only two really hard to use cup holders, plenty of cargo space, but only 2 really usable seats. It doesn’t even have power seats, although they Are heated. Just a simple, pure driving machine that still looks like a work of art. Modern cars are over complicated eyesores at ridiculous prices.

[@noobartz0890]

they move fast and breaks things and sometimes this thing is your spine

[@Optimistprime.]

I drive a 2016 Toyota Prius V, and it has been absolutely solid. No issues at all. Paid just a little under $30,000(can) and have not been disappointed. My original plane was to drive it for 10 years, but I'll likely keep it for at least the next 5 years or maybe til it dies. I do plan on getting an EV or at least a plug-in when I do get something new.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Cars are getting to the point like tvs, computers, and phones. Nobody is out here trying to buy a 5 year old phone or computer. Automakers want to throw so much technology that quickly ages poorly. If they are going to be throwaway products we need throwaway pricing. Which is why Im all for cheap Chinese cars. Not like legacy brands makes good quality, reliability, affordable products anymore.

[@elmateo77]

Nah there's a big market for 10+ year old cars from reliable brands, especially for people who know how to do their own maintenance.

[@GF-mf7ml]

​@@elmateo77for ice cars yes 13 years old Camry is pretty expensive in Thailand & Malaysia. But for EV they're throw away after 10 years because Chinese cars only need to last 10 years.

[@Elemblue2]

You have about 8 seconds to get out of the car when the battery melts down before you melt down with it. About 4 of those seconds will be you realizing what's happening. Some things shouldn't be knock off.

[@3644Darrell]

Chinese cars are horrible. Their battery products are dangerous. They don't even allow their electric bikes to be parked in an enclosure due to risk of fire. The Chinese is a propoganda machine. You can't believe anything they say or do. It's all a smokescreen for how things really are there

[@Izanagi009]

one thing i found hilarious when Toyota was brought up is that one of the most popular cars from Toyota is the Kei Truck, a tiny unglamorus truck that is very economic and has the same capacity as any of the big ford trucks. Just interesting to me that one of Toyota's key products is a very utilitarian vehicle

[@junicornplays980]

And Americans are begging for something like a Kei truck

[@JohnZornAscended]

More like a fetish for a certain demographic.

[@watso014]

US said no to Kei truck or even Hilux even though the demand is definitely there

[@harrisonlorens3585]

I mean I love Kei trucks but there is literally no universe where they have the same capacity as “any of the big Ford trucks” lmfao. The entire point of them is that they are very small with low load capacities and tiny engines. Even the Ford Ranger blows the best Kei truck out of the water in every metric except for price and possibly gas mileage. People don’t like Kei trucks because they are better than full size. People like Kei trucks because they are small and “dumb”.

[@Izanagi009]

@@harrisonlorens3585 My mistake then, sorry about that

[@marcusnolte7476]

5:54 an aspect nobody picks up upon: The entire Tesla model range (that actually sells units) is aging dramatically. Yet there is no info about any model updates or follow up models. If they only focus on trucks that will never be sold outside the U.S. or "self driving two seater taxis" that nobody asked for, they will be in severe trouble within the next 5 years.

[@chedderburg]

It’s so ridiculous hearing people say how Tesla is gonna fail and they don’t know what they’re doing when they constantly show that all the other car companies have no clue what they’re doing and Tesla is the only one that’s leading the industry. The arrogance show in suggesting that you know better is truly astonishing.

[@marcusnolte7476]

@@chedderburg so, no counter argument, just an ad hominem attack? ok then

[@dlh5323]

​​@@chedderburg where is the roadster? Please tell me where it is, hundreds of people pre ordered them and still haven't received them after almost 8 years. You're telling me the company responsible for that knows what they are doing?

[@brianifitness3656]

@@marcusnolte7476 Haha @chedderburg 😂😂😂

[@alaskanbullworm1632]

Tesla isn’t a car company

[@Clockwork0nions]

Not under water in a car, don’t need a new car, but I want one a bit bigger for our third child. My other car is paid off with low miles (Less than 90k), dealership tried to give me no money for it instead of using it as a down payment for a car we looked at. They also expected me to be cool with this and pay $700 a month for 8 years on a depreciating asset like a car.

[@DSAK55]

"Innovated" means putting more "infotainment" bloat into cars.

[@williewonka6694]

Yeah, I havs a bare bones 1996 diesel pickup truck with standard transmission, regular cab and full bed. Two days ago, I re-painted, and she looks great! Cost me $1200 in materials and tooling. Thats a one month payment of a new truck.

[@Fhnsgkdfkvsgmvdg-y6u]

Nah, Fisker has been pushing essentially the same designs since the late 2000s. They didn't really die. It's more like their backers stopped paying for life support.

[@justinallday4981]

I work at a major car dealership for a well-known brand. At first glance, this might seem like a great job with straightforward products. One of the models we offer is incredibly basic and simple-stripped down to the essentials. However, in my three years with the brand, I’ve noticed that it’s quite rare for customers to opt for such a bare-bones vehicle. Instead, most people want a few added features but not necessarily the fully loaded version. The challenge is that many manufacturers no longer allow customers to select options à la carte. Instead, features are bundled into specific trim levels. This means customers often have to pay for options they don’t want just to get the features they do. From the manufacturer’s perspective, offering à la carte options simply isn’t cost-effective.

[@JohnZornAscended]

Trim options are more economical. Of course the average air head doesn’t want to use a rotary phone. Still base cars have been sold with more and more standard features that previously weren’t available. If not simply because you can install it yourself for pennies on the dollar.

[@kzs831]

Fragile + No right to repair is the REAL issue, you can keep an old car going forever, but you can't change a battery on some new cars without using their service and proprietary tools and mounts... A minor repair now involves a full fledged service and leaving your car for days on end. People are over it and nothing is changing positively, someone said they make tablets on wheels and yeah that sums it up, no service or upgrade options, it breaks you throw it out...

[@michaelw6277]

The problem is that the line between automobile and tech product is extremely blurry right now. Tech products are disposable after a few years but cars are expected to last for at least a decade, or longer.

[@tangydiesel1886]

As someone who has 3 F350s for our farm, i would love to have one of them be an ev with about 150 miles of usable range. It would be for our one truck that hauls hay and feeds cattle on a short daily dedicated route. But nobody makes one of those, and if they did, it would probably be some fancy trim. It would really reduce our operating costs vs them all making about 7mpg. And I'm not worried about a power outage, got a 12kw, 9.6kw, and 4.8kw generator.

[@Nun195]

Why don’t you look at a class 6 ev? They exist and would met your needs.

[@Vanbulance89]

Yeah that would be a super useful truck. I could use one as well! Maybe when the Edison conversion kits are in full swing we will be able to make it happen.

[@majorchungus]

Buy a used F-150 EV base model. Does exactly what you described.

[@old_grey_cat]

In my state (Australia) there are businesses converting favourite vehicles to EVs. None of the modern "pay a subscription for these bells and whistles or we drop you back to basics" tricks, you just get the stuff needed to make it no longer internal combustion. Some costs are lower than you might expect, as when commercial EVs become unservicable their OK parts can be cannibalised.

[@kenon6968]

7mpg? Ouch

[@Andy-AJC72]

95% of the time, people drive alone back and forth to work and to the grocery store. Simple, safe, comfortable and affordable is all that’s required. There is an open market niche.

[@pvt_picklestomp3014]

I'll do it! But I need a small loan of one million dollars..

[@tHebUm18]

6:16 Let's not ignore that their cars were also awful and it's literally the 3rd time Fisker went bankrupt.

[@kenon6968]

I can't think of a single example where a company reused a body shell and had an amazing success on the second, or third time around, like you point out. It was gorgeous when it came out in 2007

[@imbenmeyer]

Truth. I don’t know how this man isn’t investigated. That’s how he builds his wealth: he builds some mock up of a crap car that can roll on four wheels powered by a battery with no intention to mass produce it files for bankruptcy and keeps all the money. He’s done it two or three times now.

[@zanerasmussen8889]

Built in obsolescence, failure to adhere to the right to repair laws, political affiliation, etc. The car company’s of today are no different than online subscription services at this point. They don’t want you to know how to (or be able to) fix anything. They want you to just buy another car when yours breaks similar to all items designed for today’s generation. What word will describe this generation? Saturation.

[@Praisethesunson]

@@zanerasmussen8889 I prefer the word enshitification. That describes the situation far better

[@lprice5583]

I just want an affordable basic truck with a diesel-electric motor, 4-wheel drive, and a radio. I don't need electric windows or door locks. I don't need an extra cab. I don't want heated or cooled seats. I don't want a fancy laser key. Again, I want a simple truck with a radio and good mileage. The tech has existed longer than I have. Just put it together.

[@Userxxx840]

The closest thing that I can think of NEW is a Tacoma SR with the utility package. I think you’d have to go back to the 90s American trucks to get something that checks all the boxes.

[@MrTVintro]

Sorry, can't do that. Market thinks you need a shiny luxury 4 door mobile battleship that gulps gas

[@Sephiroth144]

Personally, I'd keep the electric locks and windows; don't need to be able to do it from inside the house, but being able to get the back windows down without Spider-Man'ing it or child-locking the doors works for me. (And crikey, they've been pretty consistent since the 80s, so fairly established technology.) The only thing that's remotely new (like, within the past 20 years) that I really like is USB ports (for both AUX and charging); and given the charging ones essentially just replace the cig lighters, not even that hard. (And I really like loading up a thumb drive with MP3s and using that for music (or occasionally audiobooks) instead of whatever the radio shitscape is nowadays.)

[@alexzanderroberts995]

​@@Sephiroth144 If we are adding that, the software must be open source.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@alexzanderroberts995 Actually, on that note, I'd really like EASE OF ACCESS to the onboard computer (if there is one); let a simple USB connection to a basic phone app explain what the dang Check Engine Light is complaining about. OS or Proprietary, lemme see what the dang issue is locally. (Also, no remote access- don't want forced updates or otherwise people sniffing my car unless they literally plug into it physically.)

[@genericname4739]

One of the biggest problems I see is cars are so over priced that you can either buy a cheap house, or quite litterally buy and completely restore an old car for the same price as buying a new one and quite possibly still have extra money. There is also the fact that dealerships are super preditory.

[@johnhurley8918]

The EV credit was a mistake. They should have thrown that tax money at charging stations if they wanted wider adoption.

[@Nun195]

No they should have added a tax to every ice car to make them cost parity and spent the tax on charging infrastructure and trains.

[@raze2012_]

​@@Nun195taxes are already unpopular. Taxing something you already had for "free" is basically killing your political career, sadly.

[@chiplangowski3298]

Unless you live in BFE, take a look around next time you are out. You will be surprised at just how many charging stations there are out there already. And on top of that, take note of how many garages are attached to the 100s of millions of homes out there. Every last one is a potential EV charging station.

[@robertbeisert3315]

You need three things in abundance: - lithium batteries - charging stations - power supply The first and second are remarkably resource intensive, and we are investing in poor ROI power.

[@haihengh]

No, Biden did that, 8 billion in, only 7 charging station are built.

[@midnightflare9879]

Public Transport, let's go!

[@partimentieveryday]

The impending electric car doomsday. We will pay dearly for the overproduction of cars and the underfunding of public transport.

[@jamesrobertson7623]

Hell no

[@raze2012_]

*closes fairytale book* Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen

[@Code7Unltd]

The cyclist rings in support.

[@dbclass4075]

​@@jamesrobertson7623It will happen anyway when the cars continue to be unaffordable.

[@Nerdificationing]

I have an EV and would never change back. But in Australia we have a lot of solar on our homes, so charging is free and green at home...

[@raze2012_]

Us used to have free charging as well. We might still do, but that was long ago and it'd never last in this plutocracy.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

@@raze2012_It does work at home.

[@wvusciguy]

Bought a volt in 2013. Best purchase ever. 150k miles. 4.5k on gasoline.

[@raze2012_]

@@unconventionalideas5683 no, but yes? It's "free" to charge at home, but it obviously impacts your electric bill. It's definitely much more cost effective and convinent to do it at home either way

[@harryblake92]

If only I could afford an EV... and solar panels... and a house to put them on...

[@MrDwightsimon]

This is why I stiil drive my 1999 GMC Sonoma 😂

[@cartilagehead]

I can think of a few times in the past 30 years where Toyota got a ton of bad press for manufacturing/engineering issues. Maybe social media wasn’t as developed and ubiquitous or immediately available to people as it is now, but they got tons of attention in the legacy press. I wonder if the people making a huge deal out of Toyota’s current reliability/recall troubles remember the frame rot recalls for the third generation Tacoma or the “phantom accelerator” scandal involving certain Priuses/Rav4s/Camrys of the 2000s, etc. Hyundai has recalled millions of cars over the past decade, often for really scary things like “possibility of spontaneous engine combustion” and don’t seem to be worse for wear for it.

[@DewtbArenatsiz]

Correct. It's because Toyota won't follow the EV agenda

[@AVVS0meness]

I sold my car and share a car with my wife now. I’ve been doing this for a couple years and anything that necessitates my wife and I getting to two different places at the same time means I ride my e-bike or take the bus. Car companies can get lost for the unjust damage they’ve done to our lives.

[@kevinwiercyski4118]

All we want is a N/A, high displacement, moderate powered engine paired to a simple torque converter automatic or a manual 6 speed. Keep it simple, affordable and easy. That's literally all we want.

[@MotoStylus-z8r]

If you compare maintenance and fuel costs for 1 million of whatever units (km/mi) for a vehicle with a large deforced everlasting cast iron block like the 2UZ-FE doing 13-20MPG (e.g., on a TLC100 or a Lexus LX470) vs a modern all-aluminum small-battery hybrid doing 45-50-55MPG - you may find it is cheaper to drive the proverbial million in 2-3 newer hybrid vehicles vs 1 "eternal" TLC100/LX470.

[@DewtbArenatsiz]

Klaus Schwab doesn't want personal mobility

[@yycflames]

@@MotoStylus-z8r have you done the math? and are you comparing the hybrid models that are equivalent to the land cruiser/LX470?

[@MotoStylus-z8r]

@@yycflames I have. At 14 MPG you get out of your average 2UZ-FE Cruiser/Lexus LX back from 2007, you'd need to burn almost 71500 gals of fuel or around $215-220k in today's money to get to 1 million which is not impossible, of course (unlike with modern vehicles, even Toyotas). The TLC was going around for 55-60k back @ the day, more like 80k of day's moneys, and you are just a bit shy of 3 times the vehicle's price in just the fuel over 1 million miles. Then there's like 200-250 oil changes, 12-18 timing belt & water pump replacements, 25-35 ATF changes & so on, new spark plugs, coils, probably 2-3 radiators, new shocks, suspension work & so on. For a fancier 6AT, you are probably looking at repairing the transmission somewhere along the way, too. Yes, the engine&frame won't die if you remotely take care of the vehicle and it can go to many places. However, unlike the 70 & 80 series or the tundras - the 100/200/300 TLCs and their Lexus cousins are not used for offroading or towing huge loads all that much (on average) and are mostly driven on proper paved roads with relatively light loads. The story is a bit more obvious with 20-25 year old toyota/lexus sedans, that are still very drivable today, because there's no offroading/towing element to the calculation.

[@deeznoots6241]

>simple and affordable >high displacement engine So you want a cheap car that has a massive engine that will guzzle fuel? (Not even mentioning that a large engine requires more space in the car increasing costs and reducing practicality)

[@toolit2quit]

I love the part where he explains that its everyday people's tax dollars paying for some tech bro's new tesla and how so many of these ev makers are so deep underwater they need submarines to come back up.

[@gbone7581]

The poor subsidising the rich!

[@bakerbros7179]

2:45 England catching strays

[@youstolemyhandleyoutwat]

Catching strays indeed

[@youstolemyhandleyoutwat]

I had to check 5 times just to make sure

[@AlexP-dz7ew]

I wish they had initially tried to push Hybrid vehicles instead of over investing in fully electric vehicles before the infrastructure was in place. This would have allowed Hybrid technology to continue to improve, without the reliance on charging stations and infrastructure It’s not really practical to have an EV in a lot of places

[@foobar9220]

The biggest issue with EVs is pricing. Honestly...I bought my Octavia 11 years ago on order for 23k€. Getting the same car now would cost me around 30k€, already pretty steep for a pretty rational and economical car. But if I buy an EV, I want to have a battery of ~80 kWh because I otherwise my weekend trips to the mountains will require me to charge on the way back, something I do not want to do if I can cheaply and comfortably do at home. An EV would slash my fuel bill in half, saving me around 1000€ per year. But at around 50k€ for an EV there is no way, I will make this back within the lifetime of a car. I am a bit itchy to try out EVs because charging at home would be so much more comfortable than going to the gas station 2-3 times a month. There are good cars on the market now, but they are simply way too expensive. There is no reasonable used market. So at 200 000km, I will just wait what the market brings in 3-5 years and see what the market has to offer. So far, I am pretty skeptical, big batteries are always placed as part of the luxury line and the used cars of tomorrow are the ones sold today.

[@Jcewazhere]

My little 66kWh Bolt goes up and down the mountains here in Colorado just fine. A stock Tesla beat the Pikes Peak Hill Climb record, and modified EVs are shattering what gas cars can do. EVs excel in mountains thanks to regen braking. Use up power going up the pass, then get some of it back coming back down. Besides, why are you so against charging up in the mountains? Aren't you going to stop for a few minutes and enjoy the scenery, have some lunch, drop a deuce, or something? Or do you literally just drive up the hill and down the hill? The first weekend I had my Bolt I drove from Denver to Grand Lake. Charged for a couple hours at a free lvl 2 charger in town while I wandered the shops and ate lunch. Got back to my driveway with 60% left in the battery. And that's with a marginally efficient 7 year old EV that cost me $15k without any kind of incentives.

[@neodym5809]

I would argue that 23k to 30k price increase in 10 years is to be expected with a 3% inflation per year. Not a steep increase.

[@foobar9220]

@@Jcewazhere I don't care how fast somebody can drive up a hill. I am not a race driver. The issue is range. A round trip for me is typically 250-350km and I do not go there for the view from the road. I go to the mountains for hiking, climbing, skiing, ski touring, ice climbing,...and that will most often involve parking in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure whatsoever. The alps are not as remote as some stuff in America, but if there is no charger at hand, I may just be 50km away. It does not matter. And even if I am at a ski resort...one resort has recently added 10 chargers for hundreds of cars. People would have to come down from the mountain after 4h to repark their car in ski boots. The last thing I want to do, is add another 25 minutes to a 2,5h drive after a very long day just for charging all while paying 60-80c/kWh on a fast charger when I can do the same at home for 30c/kWh or even cheaper on a sunny day thanks to solar. I have done the math, in winter, I would just get by with an 80kWh battery. All manufacturers would need to do is throw out all that luxury crap from their cars and sell me one that is just driving reliably and reasonably comfortable at a reasonable price. I do not want any half-self-driving, I do not need any electric seat adjustment, ugly large alu rims on my tires, SUV optics, etc., I just want one with the big battery. How hard can it be to make one? The Octavia, I own, is exactly that. A reasonable family car, lots of space, cheap to operate, very reliable so far...

[@foobar9220]

​@@neodym5809 Nobody would expect a TV or phone to get 3% more expensive every year just because of inflation, quite the contrary. As technology progresses, the same product gets cheaper and cheaper. R&D is amortized, production simplified, there are economies of scale. Cars can be in that category, too. For a very long time, car prices have actually been trailing inflation by quite some margin. However, in recent years, margins for many manufacturers have skyrocketed. Solid double digit margins do not come from matching inflation, they come from outpacing it. And for the concrete example of the current Octavia, the base model is filled with stuff that I would never buy and many people did not buy in 2013, stuff that drives up the price.

[@raze2012_]

​@@neodym5809it's more that expectations increase and the cars from 10 years ago could just barely do a short commute on a charge. The Evs are just now starting to hit close to ICE parity but still have much less charging stations. And the ones that do thst are almost triple the price.