“I'd Slap Anyone Who Called Me A 'Menstruator'!” Are Trans Right Detrimental To Women’s Rights?

[@ooosh1]

No Zoe, you're not allowed to say that those of us who have experienced sexual violence should share intimate spaces with men. How dare you?

[@jjr1728]

She's from the guardian. Explains a lot

[@rasputjen]

Zoe basically feels like a chauvenist man to me.

[@ianh1984]

Zoe is one of the dumbest people i've ever seen. Common sense doesn't exist to her. She's older than all of the panel, how is she the most naive? I guess everyone doesn't get wisdom with age. The younger girl destroyed her without much effort. Just a little bit of common sense.

[@wenchehvaker1100]

👍

[@annereidy7981]

@@jjr1728 no, sorry, nothing explains her assertive stupidity or the profound effect it has on others not strong enough to stand up to it.

[@eggbox7132]

Oh my, Zoe is so ideologically captured it’s laughable. Is there anyone who can take anything she said on here seriously? Ella spoke a lot of sense and she was calm in the face of interrupting rudeness. Definitely the voice of reason here.

[@paulchristopher8634]

The answer is a simple “ nope “. If I was a women I would be ashamed that she holds woke views

[@livinglife4835]

No, as a woman, I do not have to encompass trans women as women.

[@samanthawhang7498]

You mean MEN. We do not have to embrace men as women.

[@mousenation3867]

💯

[@deal2live]

I think that would be obvious! Back in the sixties when abortion split the woman rights movement! A man lied in a speech about abortion statistics, he made them up! We have this now in the trans inclusive!

[@deal2live]

Women are being erased! These women are asking for woman to be on the list! We do not have to accept by faith trans women are women. She just meet a woman that objects to the inclusive language that leaves out women!

[@cindysanderson887]

Why is a man telling women their rights

[@debjane7]

Zoe Williams claiming women were given their own sports because they were too good, what an utterly ridiculous woman.

[@hovercraft-x9j]

Totally agree 👍

[@michaelwynn8019]

Yeah. I kind of suspected her stupidity and then she confirmed it. The Guardian personified. I've always voted labour but the pandemic and the gender issue have caused scales to fall.

[@suepoppelwell804]

She needs to get a history lesson! It actually says a lot about the Guardian! Never reading that ever again!

[@Sadenaike1]

I played that back twice to make sure she said that even if it was in the twenties has human biology changed that much . The thought I had was this is madness but rethinking it she believes this so she is in denial I think this is a flat earth equivalent . But what body of faith would make someone deny reality?

[@TERFClub]

Women weren’t better they just got more attention so where banned for 50 years because of the male ego. Now this Zoe wants to see males take over our sports which women fought for. She’s in complete denial of reality.

[@lioness-drss7349]

Zoe seriously aggravated me. She may be ok with men in her spaces but it doesn't mean you have a right to give away my spaces and language. I suffered sexual violence and I don't want men in my spaces! Also I'm a woman. As someone who doesn't have periods and infertility, why on earth would I want to be constantly referred to my female body parts that don't work?! I'm depressed enough already thank you. And as for men in prison, I've heard women actually give their personal accounts by women who contact Kellie jay keen or attend let women speak. Zoe is completely out of touch with other women's realities and it's disgusting how she kept speaking over and to Ella. She needs to watch some let women speak broadcasts, they're on KZbin.

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

Exactly - she is not in a position to consent for anyone but herself.

[@jennywren118]

Zoe doesn't care if she aggravates women. Because Zoe is a man.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

Zoe claims to be a feminist yet fights harder for men pretending to be women than women. She and the feminists like her are the only reason pretend women are taking over women's spaces - if not for them, pretend women would have not been able to get a foothold to gain the power they now have.

[@violetwallace9292]

Zoe is a very smug arrogant woman who was getting annoyed because Ella was talking sensibly about an important issue. She was quite rude too.

[@leandabee]

My god, do you notice how people like that zoe woman have to resort to being rude, condescending, nasty, rolling eyes, raised voices? The other women stated their thoughts calmly and without being rude to each other. Zoe, go away 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@binghamguevara6814]

They’re are forced by secular “free speech” to be civil over disgusting uncivilised conversations. Lgbtqia2+ arr the vilest conversations of the 21st century.

[@decorDD]

That’s always the case when the lefties are presented with undeniable facts , I find

[@zeldagoblin]

It's the smugness of the left

[@jonsmum5552]

Zoe is a handmaiden and doesn’t speak for the majority of women. Handmaidens repulse me.

[@jonsmum5552]

@@rightherethereeverywhere I think she lacks a brain myself. 🤔

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

She'd need to be fertile, to be a handmaiden. That's telling - most postmenopausal women don't want men who think they're women in their spaces, because they are still vulnerable to male sexual violence, but they don't face the prospect of being impregnated by men in the way that young women do.

[@KatalepticBoots]

@@rightherethereeverywhere I think you hit the nail on the head there. Her job is dependent on 100% promotion of male trans identifying persons privileges.

[@Jacques-Le-Marois]

No woman she has EVER met would mind being called ‘a person with a womb’? Absolute crap!🙄🙄

[@ArntyouAKAValerieNosey]

That's because she hasn't met real women who are not as deluded as her, she sticks to her deluded feminist friends.

[@jonsmum5552]

if anyone referred to me as a person with a womb, they can expect a punch in the throat.

[@ladyc3544]

​@@ArntyouAKAValerieNoseyyes third wave feminists of the man-pleasing variety

[@ArntyouAKAValerieNosey]

@@ladyc3544 you mean trans pleasing embarrassment. No real man would tolerate that obnoxious ridiculous female.

[@jamiejones8508]

I’m a feminist. I’ve never met her fortunately but I’m very much of the mind that women are women, and not “menstruators” or “cervix havers “. I note that men are never referred to as “prostate havers” or similar. That will be because this is all about privileging the desires of biological men to pretend to be women, over the sex based rights of actual women. You couldn’t make it up.

[@Tang0Fox1]

There is no debate because 'transwomen" are NOT women and should not be in women's spaces whether in prison or in public. Stop with rhis BS.

[@ShannyShan20]

Agreed! I don't know these women, I just stumbled on here, but the one, Zoe, I think is her name..I'm already offended! Trans-women are MEN! They are in no way WOMEN! Any freak can claim the woman identity and then come into our spaces, and I don't think her views are open enough to think about that! I'm 10 minutes in, and I'm about to dip out! Women ARE BEING OBLITERATED and with her being inclusive in this way, leaning more towards Trans-women and THEIR rights, She's missed the mark! We've been too kind and generous with THEIR FEELINGS for TOO LONG, and enough is enough! They've overstepped! Unbelievable!

[@grannywoo2437]

Ab so bloody lutely!!!

[@NickyM_0]

They are trans identified men.

[@susanhopemason]

EXACTLY. Some opinions can be fact, but NOT ALL opinions are fact. Her OPINION that trans women should be allowed or welcome in female-only spaces is NOT a fact because trans women ARE MEN and NOTHING other than men. NO DECENT man would even WANT to enter female-only spaces...which definitely means that any male-born person who does want access to female-only spaces is NOT DECENT.

[@susanhopemason]

@@ShannyShan20 I completely agree. I'm so glad that I don't know people like Zoe, at least not that I am aware of. I haven't had any in-person discussions on this topic... I have only expressed my feelings about it online. So, I don't know if I am a part of the majority or minority in my area...but from the comments on the videos I have watched, it seems that the vast majority strongly disagree with Zoe, and I am at least happy about that much.

[@Tqcwgrrl]

There shouldn’t have been ANY assaults caused by males in female prisons, Zoe.

[@paulchristopher8634]

Exactly no man should be in a women’s prison. I mean we know what happens with male prison officers because there have been newspaper accounts of them having a relationship with female inmates. Lastly trans people are men full stop and therefore women prisoners have to be protected from sexual offences

[@jmlorenzo3639]

💯

[@NickyM_0]

Right!

[@grantmason740]

A prime example of "Tell me you work for The Guardian without telling me you work for The Guardian"! This person was out to deny everything and totally failed to accept that many people have genuine concerns based on religious/philosophical belief and/or an understanding of fundamental biology. To claim there is a movement to undermine or destroy Trans people is a distraction from the fact biological women are being shoved to the side and no doubt made to feel like they no longer matter.

[@lg2151]

Agreed, aggressively shouting her opinion over others with her fingers in her ears refusing to hear anyone else. So disrespectful

[@onimikola]

and by refusing the facts that men and women are different biologically and man are much superior in sports, that lady are 100% dilutional and will say anything to defend Trans Ideology including by denying facts and reality , I thought being a journalist or writer always check up the facts, obviously not for this lady and the credibility of guardian as a magazine is questionable by this, the journalist's quality is so low...

[@grantmason740]

@@onimikola The Guardian always has been an unashamedly left leaning daily newspaper. Their analysis away from politics and gender related subjects is usually quite fair but on this they are out of step with the majority of sensible people, biology and common sense.

[@lechenaultia5863]

Perfect comment!

[@gillcawthorn7572]

Not just `no longer matter` ,the aim is to make women feel worthless .Once that lack of self esteem is considered normal in women ,down they go to the bottom of the pile...again!

[@zahrans]

Zoe is one of those open minded people, who's so open minded that her brain has fallen off.

[@akirajones790]

😂😂😂

[@Rosebud2503]

Lolol....brilliant!

[@sarahbartlett4945]

I care about being called a person with a cervix. Zoe, wake up! Study more on this subject I am a Woman. Utterly sick of women and children's safeguarding being thrown to the bus for the sake of men. Dear Zoe, over 50%of all Transwomen (men) in prisons are in for sex offences. That's a higher percentage than even for the males who consider themself males. How dare you think it's not an issue? Again study the whole issue more rigorously. .

[@shadow.banned]

These bizarre slurs "bleeder" or "breeder" or "cervix haver" are euphemisms for "hoe". It's grotesque and openly inhumane.

[@givmi_more_w9251]

@@shadow.banned Have you heard about a vagina being called a 'bonus hole' by a cervical cancer charity? Because 'vagina' would make those very manly masculine trans men dysphowic? I couldn't even be mad, just thought to myself 'well, if you ask straight men, they would hardly call a vagina a 'bonus hole' while lauging.

[@ladyc3544]

​@@shadow.banneddont dare misgender them though, but they can call women by whatever dehumanising terms they want, and when we object, we're being ridiculous or over-sensitive! Or bigots!

[@annaheart7731]

@@ladyc3544 Then let's call them "penistuckers" insteed of "transwomen".

[@MaggieFuchs]

The lack of empathy to biological women by Zoe could fill a black hole, it says it all.

[@evieblessed]

I was struggling to listen to the rubbish Zoe was spouting right from the off but she lost ALL credibility when she said men's and women's sports were fist made separate because the women were too good......I mean, what can you say to that level of delusion?

[@brother1ray]

Yeah, because that's why the Aussie Womens team, ranked 5th in the World, lost 7 - 0 to a bunch of 15year old school boys.......the women were just too good, Lmfao!!🤣

[@louiseparker1915]

It is true that in the early 20th century women's football was very popular. Men barred women from playing to favour the men's teams. Women played against each other not against men however! So AGAIN because of sexism women were denied a bit of glory and fun. And men's feelings and "rights" were prioritised over women's AGAIN! Was ever thus.......

[@fin1131]

I wonder if Zoe ever had to do time whether she would be ok with a trans women sharing a cell with her, bet we know the answer. These are the same people who want mass immigration BUT have NO space to take any.

[@evieblessed]

@@louiseparker1915 , yes, perhaps more popular, but more popular is not equal to women actually being better at the sport. I expect camel showjumping might draw crowd, but horses would out compete them every time.

[@purplepoppyz]

Yeah, she wasn’t honest about anything but the sports thing was laughable.

[@Ravenghost123]

It is strange to see a woman not wanting what is best for women and what women deserve (Zoe Williams).

[@paulchristopher8634]

It’s extremely offensive. Are you sure she is a women because she isn’t acting that way

[@claireengland897]

i think zoe needs to go have some biology lessons and also lessons on consent. consent is not transferable, just because she doesn't mind if men are present in places where she undresses, uses the toilet etc it doesn't mean she can invite them into those spaces when other women say no!

[@johnreid9959]

Ella’s a hero Zoe is showing her middle class world unaware of the average person

[@paolaservini3842]

Zoe hasn't grasped the concept that if she is happy to share initimate spaces with transwomen that's great for her. She does not get to consent on behalf of other vulnerable women and children.

[@TheKam81]

zoe is a the guardian 🤡🤡

[@krustycreme1093]

No, there shouldn't be a debate- because sex is not dependent on "opinions" or votes! Females are females and no others belong, and we have sex segregated spaces for good reason! I don't care if 70% of females become so brainwashed they would vote to have men in dresses invade their space- they are still not females and other females don't get to give away womnens rights to men because they have been brainwashed! @@Adulthumanfemale84

[@BabbleCacophony]

I don't think that is what she is saying. Be a little bit more gracious towards her. Not to mention, this logic extends to who can exclude people. This argument backfires.

[@sarcodonblue2876]

Trans women are men. End of

[@haselbasil2488]

It does not matter if it is a small number of trans women in female prisons, no biological male should ever be allowed in a woman's prison. The fact that it is a small number is of cold comfort to the women who were assaulted by those biological men.

[@NPC--666]

When rape occurs in a female prision the perpertrator is 99% likely to be a man (transvestite prisoners) - ONS

[@Nine28457]

Damn straight. Not only that, her argument is antithetical. If we shouldn’t focus on something because it’s such a small percentage, then why bother with trans rights at all? They’re just a small percentage of the population …. right? She could argue herself out of her own position.

[@sopol6111]

Well said!!!

[@excession3076]

@Τίγρη Kogo Just a technical point, but being inside a metal box during a lightening storm is very safe as long as the lightening is on the outside. See Faraday Cage and how they work. Putting men in womens prisons is the equivalent of having the lightening source inside the box.

[@pollyanna1112]

Exactly. Trans women in female prisons should not happen. If a person has a penis they are a male regardless of how they identify themselves. If a person had a vulva and vagina they are a woman, regardless of whether they can menstruate or give birth. I'm so over all this "identify" And "pronouns" language.

[@so19sfo95]

As a man, I agree with women, I support women, I love women These crazy people need to stop with undermining women. Trans people needs to get on with their lives and stop attacking women. BTW, my mum, a woman, brought me into this world. Thanks mum❤

[@dize3672]

Thank you Ella, for speaking up for women. Thank you for being sensible and speaking simple facts. Zoe, wthaf? God help us.

[@jtrain5615]

That one woman is an idiot

[@kerryannestevenson6099]

She’s a violent person who needs to control her anger.I’m a woman I agree with Zoe,Ella is giving women a bad name.

[@kerryannestevenson6099]

@@Adulthumanfemale84 don’t think so ,good try.

[@RichardDuncan-ju1xk]

@@kerryannestevenson6099 You tell em Zoe, sorry kerry. wink.

[@jjr1728]

​@Kerry Anne Stevenson are you Jewish?

[@AdaGeddon]

Zoe calling Karen White a 'she' was offensive AF. She was also incredibly patronising to Ella, who spoke FACTS.

[@dragonfire4244]

What a patronizing attitude Zoe has. It's always the most delusional & thickest people who thinks they're right on everything.

[@judyparsons1333]

That zoe needs to be ashamed of herself feel like decking her if she was in charge of country women would be erased who does she think she is horrid woman who thinks women's rights do not matter

[@dragonfire4244]

@@judyparsons1333 Worse of all she’s using that sexist crap of women being hysterical over nothing. She hasn’t got even got 1 brain cell that matches Ella Whelan.

[@acwilson4714]

Zoe has a condescending tone to everything she says. She probably thinks that's effective in an argument--but it's mostly just irritating and people tune her out. Ha!

[@Pawsforthought222]

Lol😂😂😂 perfectly put👍

[@Heidi123]

Typical Guardian staffer. Those who disagree with the Guardian cult are driven out by the other staff. Those still there are extremists.

[@jamesdeanlovespunk]

Let there be no doubt about how far the Guardian has fallen. Zoe Williams is a shocking dogmatist, nothing but pushing her ideological positions, and sneering, belittling and accusing the moment her nonsense is in the spotlight. How many times does she make snide comments about being interrupted, only to immediately do the same? All the way through this short discussion, she behaves truly appallingly.

[@SamParker-v1m]

Zoe is an entitled middle class woman that's never really had to go through poor isolated women's problems like rape, sexual assault, dv, homelessness. I don't want men in in my private spaces unless I say yes - my permission is not your's to give away Zoe.

[@sallywright8065]

I agree that Zoe is a bit thick but do you really think that middle class women don’t ever experience domestic violence? What a strange thing to say.

[@leighparr7961]

​@@sallywright8065 No you're being deliberately obtuse or your unable to decipher the meaning behind the comment, she's referring to the privileged guardian class who are more likely to be alcoholics than abused and certainly have less chance of homelessness.

[@Hoarderoffacts]

Completely, she holds a the ultimate luxury beliefs.

[@meredithmarino1030]

100%

[@artdistree3245]

A sorority in USA were forced to accept a trans even though normally they get to choose their members. He had erections around them watched them washing and then they found he was on tinder trying to date women. They are now suing the university

[@victorsilvester78]

I am so thrilled you invited Zoe Williams on, she did a brilliant job proving yet again the insanity of the modern middle class lefties.

[@geemo4284]

There are many, many modern middle class ‘lefties’ who completely disagree with her views. There are just as many left leaning women in the population as there are right leaning.

[@rosied6351]

When Zoe started with women's sport I fell off my chair laughing, there's absolutely no point listening to her😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ruthsaunders9507]

@@Adulthumanfemale84 Did they wear special outfits?

[@fin1131]

Its called DEI/ESG they have to say this garbage, the WOKE Guardian are ALL in.

[@parthiven]

Zoe is Absolutely clueless about sports

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

If what she said about women being 'too good' to compete with men were actually true, women who call themselves men would be wiping the floor with actual men in men's sports. They never feature in men's sport though, because what Zoe said is a flat lie.

[@ironknobsteelworks4063]

@@Adulthumanfemale84 The world war de bunked that theory.

[@jim373]

The lady from the Guardian is a star, how she could have so many facts wrong and still have a job is amazing!

[@starsine9062]

"The fact that society believes a man who says he's a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman."

[@notyourordinarygran]

👍💯

[@a13xdunlop]

That woman from the Guardian is insufferably rude and arrogant.

[@jonsmum5552]

If you have to self ID to call yourself a woman…. It’s because you’re not one.🙋‍♀️

[@joley8695]

Well said!

[@pricesymonej]

Perfect! Never heard it said better!

[@UshasRides]

Totally agree - I may have to use that one :)

[@rebeccaconlon9743]

No real woman or man needs to tell the world they are one

[@shiellaneeza]

Zoe thinks saying "it's simply not true" makes it not true.

[@TOVANorseWitch]

Zoe is the most awful woman I couldnt even be in the same room with her traitor to women thats for sure

[@mandygraves997]

Ok I'm a WOMAN. A trans woman is a TRANS WOMAN.... The idea that anyone other than an actual woman who was born a woman having a say in what I'm called is infuriating

[@mjones8170]

Zoe needs to realise that where there is debate the majority of women's opinions should win. Most women don't want men in their changerooms, toilets or sports.

[@Scorpio72350]

Lol if I saw a guy in the women’s change room at my gym I’d frogmarch him out by his genitals.

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

The majority have no business consenting for everyone though. Even if most women were comfortable with men who call themselves women in their spaces, the minority of women who don't consent to sharing their spaces with men still matter. The fact is that men don't belong in women-only spaces, and there wil always be a need for women-only spaces, because women will always be particularly vulnerable to male violence.

[@lesleykounanos3009]

Good job Ella! Thank you for speaking up. We're with you.

[@dhyde6775]

This was ridiculous. Zoe Williams is a bad faith actor. She repeated trope after lie after insult. Ella Whelan is not a ‘transphobe’ she is moderate and reasonable in her positions, but how do you discuss these issues if you’re being heckled? I’m all for an honest pro trans voice, but not this kind of condescending nastiness.

[@billygugen8104]

Pro trans is anti nature. Ridiculous

[@anapontopina86]

Zoe Williams is on the wrong side of history. She is gaslit and doing the Gaslighting😮

[@rosied6351]

Zoe, if your not bothered that a penis(or several penises) can be in a woman (and girls) toilet, that's up to you, but for women and girls who are afraid of that, BACK THEM TO KEEP MEN OUT😮

[@CyberMachine]

If she's not bothered she can go the men's restroom and leave our spaces pen*s free

[@tyn1536]

She can go the men's toliets if she likes it so much. Women's toliets are for adult human females and children

[@outfromtheshadows]

Maybe she is the “respectable” face of a perverted agenda.

[@paulchristopher8634]

She is not bothered because if she was she wouldn’t be coming down of the side of a trans person. You know if I was a women I would be fiercely against a man entering a dressing room when I was changing but it doesn’t seem that way to me

[@berenonehand]

I don't think we can "agree to disagree" about the fact that transwomen are still male. It's like agreeing to disagree about whether the sky is blue.

[@greengardener517]

Poor Zoe. Delusional or very poorly informed. Possibly both. I'm embarrassed for her.

[@emasu8145]

paid! not delusional

[@estherdmees]

We’ve come to the ultimate misogynistic times now. Man demanding to be us, while stripping all our safety & dignity & right away. And may I add : all out in the open & supported.

[@blah914]

yeah, this is what i keep saying, its just a new tier of misogony in a rainbow cape.

[@StarScreamReee]

All manufactured and promoted by WOMEN. This literally came from intersectional feminism.

[@ebbyoflondon8365]

Most of what Zoë said was as misguided and ill-informed as it was cringeworthy. Her ability to miss the crux of the argument is astonishing! To make matters worse, she clearly sees herself as intellectually superior to the other panellists but comes across as condescending and wilfully ignorant. Thank God for Ella and Sally as the voices of reason - they brought some much needed balance to this discussion.

[@sbffsbrarbrr]

I truly cannot comprehend that she actually believes all that non sense she is spouting.

[@LoudMinded]

You can immediately tell she's bored and doesn't care what the others have to say. She just waits for her turn to speak, nothing they say could possibly make her question her position.

[@homienomie8904]

let's face it, she didn't even wait for her turn. Instead she just spouted off over them, always having to have the last word on every topic....what a narcissist

[@EvaWharehoka-dub44]

she is so rude and condescending, yes

[@craigbanks9532]

That Zoe woman is living on a completely different planet

[@sherex1585]

I sincerely hope that Zoe reads the comments. She’s so out of touch, not just with what the general public thinks but also with reality. The reality is that letting males self identify into our spaces makes us LESS SAFE, letting them into our sports makes them UNFAIR. She may be happy to give our rights away for some pats on the head, but we AREN’T.

[@ShannyShan20]

Well said!👏👏

[@jellybellyjellybelly7298]

The moment you say trans and woman forget it. You are not speaking to women. You are accommodating men only.

[@suepoppelwell804]

The reason they are separate spaces was for the safety of women and children!

[@catwoman2582]

That Guardian 'person' (not sure if she is a woman) has been completely brainwashed and her contempt for the wonen on the panel's views, is horrible.

[@Casseopeia777]

You are right, she’s completely brainwashed. Appallingly ill informed. No grasp of facts at all.

[@Adam-sd2ow]

The people who write for the Guardian and read it are some of the most smug self righteous high and mighty people on the planet..

[@patduffyforever]

Truly she is contemptuous of women. It was painful to listen to her. Feel like my blood pressure rocketed everytime she lied and transplained reality to the other women who thankfully have their heads screwed on straight.

[@emasu8145]

actually paid to push propaganda

[@liberosisnow]

I hope Zoe is never in a position to decide for other women, specially vulnerable ones.

[@kirstyrogers40]

I’m a survivor of rape and I hate that now I am expected to just be okay with sharing what should be a safe place. Also due to medical reasons at 25 I had to have an emergency hysterectomy so I can’t be deemed a person with a womb, I’m still a woman.

[@simonclare-fu7sx]

I have never heard such a collection of none arguments spouting from this Guardian journalist, what a lunatic she cannot accept the negatives that are obvious to all except her

[@shelleyphilcox4743]

Zoe is disingenuous, because the policy in England wasnt changed until Oct and Dec 2022, which now bars any male or transwoman guilty of violent or sexual crime to be put into the womens estate. What defines 'medical transition'...to what extent? She clearly also England centric, and has just completely ignored what has been happening in the womens prison estate in Scotland. No one is challenging her on the facts and cases. Two little girls were sexually assaulted, on seperate occasions, at age 10 and 12 respectively, in the womens toilets in supermarkets in Scotland by a 6ft 5 pervert called 'Katie Dolotowski', who also assaulted women inmates, released, took another name and was housed in a Travelodge, which no doubt will have families staying there. They breached their release terms and were put back in prison in the male estate for 76 days in April. Look up Alex Stewart/Alan Baker and how they were given the go ahead to get into womens prison after being turned down several times. Look up Sophie/Daniel Eastwood. There are more, but this is a good start to understand what has been happening. These people are violent, and its women prisoners and women guards who are at serious risk. You might want to consider the impacts of what happens if one of these gets a woman pregnant who has a record of child murder and abuse...look up Nyomi Fee and Alex Stewart...now engaged'. So please prepare for these conversations with some proper context for the realities, and at least bother to have spoken to women prisoners and how they have felt about incarceration with transwomen with fully functioning penises.

[@scotswumin5502]

Wow, thank you for the insight into those despicable characters. Zoe is embarrassingly lacking in her knowledge yet gets off with this within this discussion (perhaps through editing) as she tries to portray herself as an expert.

[@alibrown6268]

Well said

[@annab704]

Zoe thinks men and women are exactly the same, why did we ever bother to separate them! She needs to have a chat with Kathleen stock.

[@jakeforder9435]

Zoe's claim that 'women were stopped from playing football because they were too good' is ridiculous. Only last week, a team of male ex-Wrexham players beat the US Womens team 12-0

[@evieblessed]

She's so far up the male backsides that she can see the prostates. Female misogynists are the worst, it's self-loathing.

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

I think Zoe is reprehensible but post WWI women’s football attracted more crowds than the men’s. Whole families would attend from Grandma to baby, often taking a picnic. Female footballers were lauded in their home towns. To booster men’s football, the FA banned women from playing professionally for about 50 years, which is when men’s football became popular.

[@fin1131]

@@catherinerobilliard7662 There is ZERO evidence for this or Zoes claim about women's football, provide the evidence?

[@evieblessed]

@@catherinerobilliard7662 , again, popular does not equal superior in capabilities, and I think we can agree that is the issue.

[@laurenjones2909]

Womens football is great though the lionesses are brill

[@cycleholic58]

I can't believe you didn't invite Kelly Jay Keen to join this talk. She is the strongest voice out there fighting against this nonsense.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

It's not ''bollix to be fair''. Women in prison are probably not ladylike petals but they do not deserve to have men who want to abuse the system take their place above them in a prison hierarchy that no doubt is based on physical strength.

[@steph6109]

Most women in prison aren't there for violent crime. Its fraud mainly.

[@evieblessed]

Many are victims of abuse themselves and they tend to be vulnerable. The system has a duty of care to woman in prisons.

[@evieblessed]

@@GeekyC , is Zoe actually a feminist? She comes across as a raging misogynist, Jesus, nothing worse than women that can't stand other women and constantly pander to the penis.

[@CyberMachine]

It is a WAR CRIME to house males and females together as it is "cruel and unusual punishment". Yet we do this to our own citizens!

[@stellaburgoyne9473]

She ( the woman on the right) is one of the reasons I would never read the Guardian.

[@royjacobs1204]

Zoe is no feminist.

[@stellaburgoyne9473]

She comes across as just ignorant and mouthy!

[@StarScreamReee]

That thing is the quintessential feminist. Get out of here with your no true Scotsman fallacy. You don’t get to redefine peoples self labeling because it makes you look bad for associating. Take accountability for those within your ideology.

[@eleanormaxwell721]

Yes Zoe, women will stand together, we have fought many uphill battles and we are not going to relinquish those wins to a bunch of misogynists that feel they have a right to our spaces.

[@sbalmer132]

Watching that certainly showed why the Guardian is losing readers..

[@DB-sc2hg]

Zoe huffing and puffing annoys the crap out of me. Someone else who refuses to see how women are being erased.

[@gertrudeillsley7625]

This is a oerfect example of why its difficult to have a rational debate with the delusional. I'm uncomfortable watching this debate because Zoe's arguments are ridiculous.

[@pricesymonej]

Sally is wrong about the need for the conversation to be about keeping each group safe. For trans people it’s not about just being safe. They want to be seen and accepted as women, in women shelters, prisons, bathrooms, refuges, etc. that is the reason why they don’t want “unisex” spaces added, they want to go into the women’s spaces.

[@louiseparker1915]

So men and women are exactly the same according to Zoe. Why do some people want to "transition" then?

[@annearly3200]

The hypocrisy of saying women should be ok called certain words while they demand that we use their words by threat of law

[@aileenl7227]

Zoe lost me about 3 words in. You can't argue with stupid.

[@angelagreen242]

It’s obscene that anybody would call Karen White ‘her’. Shameful.

[@michellelewis1090]

If someone called me a menstruator, they would quickly find out what it feels like to bleed between the legs. Sorry to be so crude and crass.

[@NoJusticeMTG]

good thing no one is calling you that specifically then

[@sewfairyadhock8618]

Perfectly said

[@tyn1536]

​@@NoJusticeMTG GTF

[@roseosterndorf1265]

Love that response! Not crude at all.😊

[@annereidy7981]

No, you are not being crude and if I could, I'd give you a lot more thumbs up!

[@thelamington8195]

You cannot change your sex. Ergo, ‘trans women’ are NOT women. Zoe is unhinged. End of debate.

[@vmg297]

That woman on the end need to go take a biology class.

[@lg2151]

And a manners class. So condescending and rude. If that’s the only way she can get a point across she needs to take some mediation classes too.

[@kayleighdhillon1385]

​@L G, she sounds like someone who gets a kick out of belittling people.

[@LindaC616]

​@@kayleighdhillon1385she used the term "gaslighting" when, in reality, she's gaslighting the other women here and saying that their feelings are unjustified

[@roslynaubrey7766]

Don’t you mean, the bleeder on the end? I’m being ironic mind

[@kayleighdhillon1385]

@Linda C yes. Her double standards were on display also. If women aren't in danger of men being in our spaces because not all trans are sexual predators..... then we can claim that transwomen are safe in men's because not every man attacks them. Aren't trans 'demonising' men? These irrational thinkers are walking contradictions 😂

[@tamesanhamilton1470]

The woman on the right obviously never played sports. She has no idea of what she is talking about.

[@perlaaura1]

Zoe, my ears were offended every time you spoke.

[@jennifercogzell748]

Zoe isnt interested in what other women think which is why she so rude and patronising. Tutting and rolling her eyes.

[@Gazally8]

So Zoe, tell us why trans men are not fighting to participate in men's sports? Because they are women, and they know they don't stand a chance.

[@givmi_more_w9251]

Most trans men are also too busy to whine on reddit being shunned by gay men to do actual sports ...

[@cyberleaderandy1]

Exactly. All these transgender women are poor against men but thrash women. No surprise they say theyre women.

[@opsatr]

26:15 I've been trying my hardest tolerating this Zoe person, but for her to tell Ella here to "pipe down for a second" when she's been interrupting and talking over her so many times, just pushed me past the limit. 😡

[@redpony101]

That Zoe woman is nuts, is she on something. Spouting absolute nonsense. How can she not even see the issue in sports.

[@truthhurts2879]

She's a far loony leftoid journalist for the far left Guardian newspaper, which is rapidly losing readership and we all know why having seen the words spewing from that loons lips.

[@juvenalsdad4175]

I would imagine that she is not interested in sport, and doesn't understand how competition is tied to character and self-worth. Probably would not approve of that even if she did.

[@paulchristopher8634]

No she is on the side of a trans person. She’s gone woke alright

[@paulchristopher8634]

@@Arripa-777- When she says “ I feel sorry for trans “, I think that says it all for me

[@pauls4044]

The older lady on the right is clueless about what it is to be a man. She’s stuck in the 60s. I respect women and their need for private spaces. I also know that the two male prisoners she mentioned DID in fact ruin more lives after being locked up with women.

[@jj356]

Zoe reminds of that career guidance teacher in school who everyone basically avoided because they knew she was out of touch with reality.

[@mc.8391]

That woman on the end in black is surely not for real....she just loves the sound of her own voice. She has no idea how the majority of women view any of these subjects......

[@galleonseas4206]

Women's toilets provide a safe space to escape to in what can sometimes be very dangerous situations. I've helped many vulnerable young women over the years after finding them inebriated, scared or distressed in the toilets of pubs, clubs, concerts, events. I made it to the toilet myself once after my drink was spiked, it was the safest place to hide and other women helped me home safely. Zoe's claims are naive. There are now cases of men following women into the toilets and when questioned misusing self id. This isn't about saying everyone that changes gender is a threat, it's about acknowledging that self id removes women's safeguards by enabling men entry into a single sex space.

[@laurykristensen6239]

To "claim" to be female, relies on somewhat of an honor system. If facing imprisonment, you already blew the honor system. Case closed!

[@youtubesnoopinfo]

Zoe Williams is quite possibly the Guardian's least talented journalist.

[@catwoman2582]

Not all men are sinister or commit sa or r*** but the ones that do, don't have a label on their forehead. So in order to keep women and girls safe, all males should not be allowed to enter female only spaces. One woman or girl being assaulted, is one too many and so not worth the risk.

[@isabelgomes6118]

Sex and Gender have always been interchanged. One thing for sure is that it is not assigned at birth but determined right at the conception at a cellular level. This is fact. What is going on is a play on words to satisfy what people are feelings. Feelings are personal and are not used to explain and substantiate fact. A Trans person will always be their biological status no matter what they do through cosmetic surgery and fashion etc. If and when they present at an emergency and do not reveal they are trans could lead to serious ramifications to their health because of improper diagnosis and treatments. For the person sitting on the right she used the phrase "no body cares" to back up her opinions about who uses a bathroom, or about sports etc. Well people do care, those athletes care, and they have always cared. In Canada, women fought for the right to be a person. In 1929, the law was passed that "women" was to be legally defined as a PERSON. To think that we as female were not considered a person. People do care, Women hard for that. AS for children, let them be children. Let their bodies and brains develop in its natural form so that they do not have serious health issues due to the drugs that they want to use on them to "fix them". This is physical harm to a child who we don't let children drive until they are 16 , they can't sign medical consents til 16, and drink until they are 19 an 21. Those who do this and participate in administering these medications are not holding up the hippocratic oath of "thou shall do no harm.", but are fully involved in child abuse.

[@nikkioshea4139]

Well said.

[@brother1ray]

Not quite. "Gender" was introduced as a polite alternative to "sex" in the chattering classes, because the latter can also mean the act of coitus or ones sexual organs, but the rest of your post is bang on!

[@jsemplefelton5348]

​@@brother1ray- exactly.

[@LisaBeta-42]

They abolish perfectly normal words like mother, sister or woman to restrict our thinking! And it was telling that a "biological-woman" should be called "womb-man" (biological function only = breeder) or "no-man", fully aware that "man" is the short form of "human" (male & female / Adam AND Eve) - so human rights are slipping away from females in less than a century. Also the rainbow - stolen symbol from God's promise never to drown mankind again (which happend due to unproper lifestyles in the first place) - Sodom and Gomorrah got eradicated by fire for the same reason... - Greenpeace used the rainbow to fight for environmental protection about 50 years ago. On 10th of July 1985 theit flagship Rainbow Warrior was sunk, killing one crewmember. Now the rainbow gets misused to represent all sorts of sexual self-representation (the ugly colours of the spectrum like black, grey, beige or brown got attributed to "asexual" or "cis" persons) By whom? They do KNOW that Nazis get associated with the colour brown, right? - what kind of slur does that imply??? And why has a biological-woman (XX-chromosomes) to be rebranded as a "cis-woman"? What about lesbian-women? The sex they got attributed to at birth or conception is still valid - they just like women to get intimate to. How about a lesbian-man (i.e. male human being who is very much in love of women)? In the grammar of English there are 3 genders - in hierachical order the pronouns go: HE (male), SHE (female), IT (neuter) - IF any Trans-activist insists on being called by their "correct pronoun" (instead of just their name), slur this castrated person with "it"! Because THAT is the reality! Transitioning young people, by cutting them apart and removing their ability to become biological parents later in their lives, is a form of genocide. Every parent wants their child to live a happy life - but still the biological urge to become a grandparent later makes them angry, if their baby son or daughter refuses to live up to this chance (there often are no spare kids in the cupboard to provide offspring)

[@tyn1536]

Gender has been shortened. It came from universities. Its actual gender bias. Its a term used to measure bias of gender stereotypes

[@allanhindmarch7323]

She's right, having a surgical procedure does not make a man a woman.

[@joss6737]

I think the sales of the Guardian should show Zoe that she is not speaking for all WOMEN . If she says gaslighting one more time.... Have too agree with Ella, I agree calling me a menstruator would raise my hackles

[@Adam-sd2ow]

The Guardian was popular during the so called toilet paper shortages.

[@scolexuk]

Is her argument really "women's prison is already bad, so there's no problem bringing in a few rapists"?? Absolute bollocks. Why does this woman have a job as a journalist?

[@minnowes]

I am offended by the term 'menstruator' also, it is incredibly reductive.

[@hagathacrusty8995]

it erases the solidarity that women have with each other and our shared biology, whether we menstruate or not

[@paulchristopher8634]

I hate the world cis. I am a man and would never call a female “ cis women. “

[@Ms.Shortcake2008]

It’s dehumanising and very deliberate. I refuse to accept it.

[@TheRealDJSigma]

The idea that sports were sex-segregated because "women were too good" is utterly laughable. How come 1,664 men have run a mile in under 4 minutes, but not a single woman has come close? The current bench press world record for men is 612.5 Kg. The women's record is 274.4. Not even half the men's! That's 2 of dozens and dozens of examples I could give. If sports were not segregated by sex, men would dominate in pretty much all of them due to their natural advantage when it comes to strength/speed. Zoe Williams is wrong about testosterone too. 2.4 nmol/L would be considered at the upper level for an adult woman, while some sports allow "trans women" to compete as long as their testosterone level is under 10 nmol/L; over 4 times the level of women! Also, testosterone doesn't even tell the full story, because when you have grown into adulthood as a biological male, that affects your heart, lungs, bone structure, muscle mass etc. and those advantages don't just evaporate because you start taking oestrogen. We should give Zoe Williams what she wants, temporarily, and scrap sex--segregation in sports, because it would take very little time for her to realise that she's wrong, or, more likely, pivot to writing shitty "men are winning all the medals and here's why that's OK!" articles for The Guardian.

[@taliguevara567]

The fact that this women said that the reason men and women sports are separated is because women “were too good” shows how demented people can become when they are consumed by an ideology, believing that women were separated from men in sports because “they’re too good” is no different than believing that the world is flat, or that the earth is the center of the universe.

[@Graciemh43]

It’s pretty embarrassing that women need to have this debate and that we can’t be on the same page with regards to biological reality, fairness, safety and privacy. It’s pretty shocking to hear women like the one on the end with the dress. I was mentally screaming ‘do you hate women?’ Anytime she spoke.

[@ShannyShan20]

I know! I was 10 minutes into the discussion and had to stop and comment, and now, after stopping to read all the comments, I'm not sure I can continue watching! Just seeing these comments who mostly are saying the same things about Zoe... I think I'm done! I'm already so frustrated with this struggle in the real world, with women trying to make others see the reason, and it's like women are PLEADING... PLEASE HEAR US! PLEASE LISTEN....And yet, nobody is, except us women who are fed up and NOT WOKE! GET REAL ZOE! You're embarrassing! And seriously throwing women under the bus! For MEN who claim to be WOMEN, BUT WHO ARE NOT! Shameful, it is!

[@chrisneal1970]

If a man who identifies as a man told woman what they had to do and accept they would be crucified, but if they identify as a woman, then they are DEFENDED. I'll have two slices of toast with a side of CraZƴ🙃

[@atlarge2621]

It's always so interesting, whenever any platform tries to find someone to defend trans ideology, that person is always so out of touch, can't point to any facts, very often lies and ends up insulting women personally or en masse and finally states that women should just shut up and be quiet. I genuinely want to hear a reasonable argument but I never have yet. If you are pushing these ideas you have real responsibility for the outcomes of what you are pushing. I see Zoë seems to "be married to the idea" of shutting down the conversation and doesn't take responsibility at all. Be she is responsible none the less, everyone advocating for this catastrophe is.

[@Janis123-b4x]

Zoe Williams talks absolute rubbish about sport. The women's winning world cup team were thrashed by a team of schoolboys. Emma Hilton, Linda Blade and many others could really educate her, but then she'd probably just tell them they're wrong too. Her "facts" seem to be whatever she decides.

[@annmiller1516]

Zoe is an ideologue and is an uninformed one at that.

[@CathyKitson]

Why is it we're allowed to say the word "man", but not "woman"???

[@stg_69]

‘People should be able to disagree’ … yet she (Zoe) doesn’t allow it

[@Cyllene1203]

There's something horrifying here. When we champion the breakdown of social norms that our ancestors put in place to safeguard and create an ordered world, and when we dedicate such little thought to the consequences of these changes on the generations that follow us is the opposite of wise.

[@jackominty3633]

Zoe: "Women footballers were banned, because they were too good". Tell that to the U.S Ladies national team that got thumped 12-0 by non-league Wrexham's Legends (i.e. retired players), and also a few years ago by some under 15 boys team. Also, love the pained look on Ella's face every time Zoe opened her mouth.

[@taliguevara567]

The fact that this women said that the reason men and women sports are separated is because women “were too good” shows how demented people can become when they are consumed by an ideology, believing that women were separated from men in sports because “they’re too good” is no different than believing that the world is flat, or that the earth is the center of the universe.