I Disagree with Me (Thoughts from Lake Powell)

[@syrahgrimm83]

I greatly appreciate your ability to publically not know exactly where you stand on an issue that you still care about. "I don't know" is a really underrated phrase these days, and the ability to exist within ambiguity is a difficult thing to master.

[@TheLetterFifteen]

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[@untappedinkwell]

+ As a child, I respected the adults in my life who could admit that they did not know, or that they were wrong. I admired the adults who said "I don't know, but let's figure it out together." Now, that's the kind of adult I try to be. It's also probably why I'm still watching.

[@naomilouise12]

Syrah Grimm +

[@elizabethaman7]

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[@TheChocolateChipGuy]

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[@sandoval9276]

"If you want to always be right, you have to always be ready to change your mind" -- C.G.P. Grey

[@laineylarsen245]

SoyLuciano Solid. +

[@Rotten_Ralph]

SoyLuciano +

[@peterDcontact]

video link?

[@sandoval9276]

his second QnA (1 million subs special)

[@MGustave]

And I'm sure he changes his mind all the time..........

[@nsnick199]

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." -Walt Whitman

[@joman47]

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[@benediictiion]

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[@laineylarsen245]

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[@fossilfighters101]

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[@chelseajupiter2103]

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[@jakeconner2813]

"part of being human is the ability to contradict yourself" I like that quote, especially when we can sometimes get to involved in our own beliefs. Idk if CGP gray said it first, but I remember in a video he said "always be willing to swap out your opinion for a better one"

[@TheLetterFifteen]

I love that idea. I think the ability to change one's mind is difficult but important.

[@marydrenaud]

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[@anac.camacho1609]

Jake Conner +

[@aliensinnoh1]

Pst... "Grey"

[@dontpaytheboatman]

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[@DCsk8rgoelz]

This comment section and video have me in tears. Look at the people you have gathered into this community and their appreciation/understanding of nuance. Its like a pocket of sanity in the media environment we exist within. Someone else said that hank made them feel less alone. Every one of you, including hank and john, make me feel less alone.

[@NOVAKza]

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[@Son0fHobs]

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[@laineylarsen245]

+ :)

[@bettsdn]

+ :)

[@sairamrf]

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[@alternateuniversescollidde313]

Hi Hank, Great video! I recently returned from working at Glen Canyon for an internship. I learned a couple of things that I thought might interest you about the current river system and about Lake Powell. The river used to be very warm before the lake, was murky and red, and was able to support a natural eco system before the creation of Lake Powell. Now, the river is cold and clear. This is because of the turbines used to harness the water pressure in order to make electricity. The native fish cannot live in cold water, nor can they lay their eggs because of the sediment change. There are some native fish surviving down river as it is warm enough farther away from the turbines, but unfortunately they remain endangered. There are also a few clans of beaver that live on the river mostly in rock caves. Lake Powell is stocked with fish, most of them trout, that are not native to the river system. These fish escape into the river and additional fish are also stocked up river for the recreational fly fishermen that frequent the area. There is a fear that they would kill the native fish if they traveled down river. To be able to cater to the recreational purposes of the fishermen and to preserve the native fish every night the river is electrocuted. This electro fishing is meant to kill all the invasive fish and occurs multiple times during the night. The dead fish are pulled up with nets also during the night so the river is clean for the people who visit in the morning. Additionally I thought you might find it interesting that under Lake Powell are many Paiute sites, villages, sacred sites, and graveyards. None of the Paiute people were asked by the government(to my knowledge at least)about flooding of their homes. Luckily some salvage archaeology was done in the years prior to the construction of Lake Powell, to recover artifacts from the sites that were abandoned because of the Paiute being forcefully relocated to reservations years prior. Pictures were taken along with the artifacts so some memory was preserved. I am curious if during your trip if there was any mention of this? If you find this among the numerous comments and read this, thank you for your time. Again, great video it made me think about what it means to be human and humankind's role in nature.

[@itsrosandor]

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[@justaboutnothing4500]

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[@maiafarinas7189]

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[@Nhoj31neirbo47]

My sediments exactly.

[@thelojay]

AH!!!!! AHAHAHAHA I saw this comment before but I didn't really read it XD

[@HI1804]

That thing about disagreeing with yourself and how society tells you it's a bad thing really resonated with me. I've been disagreeing with myself a lot too,and found I felt a smidge of self loathing about it but now I get why it's unjustified. This is probably my favorite thing about art and media and communication in general where I felt massively less alone and more understood because of someone who doesn't even know me. Thank you Hank,you freaking never FTBA!

[@jacindaferguson2409]

You put into words a struggle that I contemplate constantly.

[@davidfrend]

I have shared that struggle, and I think it's helpful when we're honest about it. I think the world wants us to be monolithic, one-sided, flat characters, because that makes things easy to understand. They aren't, though, partially because we aren't easy to understand, and I think we need to be willing to acknowledge and wrestle with the things that make us complex and multidimensional, because those are the things that make us unique.

[@_Domo_]

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[@blackmesa232323]

This is a dam good video.

[@omniscant7193]

blackmesa232323 +

[@meghanjenks2963]

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[@gracemilliman5403]

Percy Jackson?

[@champking5883]

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[@tweetoc]

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[@joco179]

I've been traveling to Lake Powell, with my family, almost every year, since I was born. (I first came when i was 2 weeks old.) As I've gotten older I've had this same duality of thought that, you are experiencing. It was cathartic, in a way, to hear someone else put words to feelings I've been wrestling with for years. Thank you, Hank, for making this video.

[@emy04072]

This is definitely one of my all time favorite Hank videos (and I have been warñtchimg for about 9 years). I just got back from a trip through Utah exploring canyons and other natural wonders. I am currently reading a book about Glen Canyon, its history and opposition. Thank you for basically making a video about how I feel about Glen Canyon. Being a human is hard.

[@oliviaestes7643]

As someone who is significantly concerned for the environment, thank you for making this video. If there is one thing that frustrates me, it's this ingrained idea that humans are separate from nature, giving us a false sense of control over our lakes, land, forests, etc. We do not live to control nature. Neither do we live to serve it. It's a part of us and we a part of it. Therefore nature should be treated with the same amount of respect as you would give to yourself.

[@jesusgonzalez6715]

Olivia arsenic is perfectly natural. water without microbiological contaminants is not.

[@AnEveningWithE]

While on tour with Missoula Children's Theatre, our drive from Montana down into south Arizona took us right over that bridge unexpectedly, and we had to stop and turn around, just to marvel at how beautiful that area is. The side where the water is low, on the bridge side of the dam, is just as spectacular, because all of the canyon walls are exposed. My favorite thing about heading into Arizona and the southwest is how striking the earth is--the redness of the rocks, the defiant angles of the ground against the sky. I loved getting to see it again in this video. Thank you!

[@lawrencecalablaster568]

Thanks for always making wonderful things, guys. These thoughtful Thoughts From Places videos are my favourites. DFTBA So Long & Thanks For All the Fish, Lawrence Calablaster

[@carolineburke6785]

Having grown up in Utah and visited Lake Powell on countless summer trips and spring breaks, I can attest to the awesomeness of it all. I really enjoyed this video, especially when it hits so close to home. Thanks for putting this feeling into words for me, Hank. Enjoy your time in Utah :)

[@TheLetterFifteen]

Great video, Hank. I'm always confused by the idea of the "natural", and it seems like an impossible line to draw. Like what makes human constructions inherently less natural than beaver dams or bird nests? I think making ethical or practical decisions based on whether they're "natural" is flawed, and that justification seems to be used often, both for choices I think are beneficial and choices I think are harmful.

[@anyal4130]

TheLetterFifteen +

[@SeanGHOB]

TheLetterFifteen +

[@9_in_the_afternoon]

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[@Linkman95]

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[@untappedinkwell]

I saw a post on one of my social media sites where in someone said "nature is too weird for that shiz" or something to that effect, and it's stuck with me ever since--because so often our idea of natural doesn't take into account nature's weirdness. So here's to doing the best we can and remembering how weird nature is.

[@Neha71580]

This is just one of the videos where we really don't need to comment, just listen. Listen to this awesome person!! Seriously, I'm studying Environmental Management as for now and even I don't want to present any type of comment, because it was so resonating and wonderful to watch something so thought-provoking! Thanks Hank (and John). DFTBA!

[@laramoran8925]

"Thoughts from places" videos are SO GOOD

[@iiiiitsmagreta1240]

I have this exact feeling, like, a lot. For instance, my home city, Vancouver - I love it and consider it to be one of my favourite places on Earth. But I am painfully aware it wouldn't exist if the land had not been stolen from the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations who have inhabited it for thousands of years and continue to dwell here (and, in fact, still technically legally own the land) today. I am conscious that to build this city, huge swathes of old growth forest and valuable wetland habitats were almost completely destroyed, leaving only fragmentary remains that barely support the life-forms native to this region. I love this place to death, but in a fair world it wouldn't exist. Thank you for helping me articulate that paradox. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in this feeling.

[@pocket83]

I think (some) dissonance is the normal and natural result of a mind trying to problem-solve. I'm happy to hold contradictory opinions simultaneously- at least tentatively. To me, certainty is evidence that something is certainly wrong! Thanks for a great video ;)

[@jtdzfsu]

This mini-movie is beautiful and your comments a form of art I truly enjoyed. Thank you for making this.

[@AmeliaBell28]

"I look at this dam and I think 'humans are so freaking amazing! And also so freaking stupid!'" Personally, my second adjective would've been "terrifying." Humans are so freaking amazing and also so freaking terrifying. I look at that enormous thing we built, and I'm amazed but also a good bit scared.

[@fossilfighters101]

+ Me too.

[@_Domo_]

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[@Naiadryade]

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[@tara.5986]

Stupid people ARE terrifying.

[@schwasha000]

Well, let's be honest; we have been able to create enormous things and can literally affect nature itself. It is indeed terrifying to realize our power and amazing. which comes to the point: with power like ours, we must be responsible with it for we will be responsible for what happens after we use it.

[@humanity3.090]

Thank you for sharing your inner struggle with us. I think that all too often, we think it absolutely imperative to resolve these struggles right away, and not give them time to simmer in our minds.

[@jagrubster]

I don't know how you manage to make something so boring seem so interesting and philosophical. Thank you, Hank. I think Nerdfighteria isn't going to count this as educational and want to punish you for this, and I hope when you're taking your punishment you'll still think it was worth it. I personally think all of your videos are educational-they're all full of research and insight in a way most KZbin videos aren't. I don't think this was more educational than your typical video and that's why I think the community will punish you. But I love this video. I love that you share your thoughts with us and always make it interesting. I love that you start a conversation and make us think. I'm so proud to be a part of this community and to be able to watch and interact with Nerdfighteria every day.

[@soulbitten]

Gah! You were in my state (AZ)! I hope you enjoyed your time here. The Colorado river has provoked some interesting and enlightening thoughts since its creation. My journal usually grows an extra five or so pages whenever I visit it.

[@matthewream1309]

It's the lake from The Impossible Astronaut in Doctor Who!

[@mythologiefan]

I agree, this is fascinating. In high-school I had a geography teacher who was obsessed with Hoover Dam (it is an astonishing piece of human construction) and talked/geeked about it during several different modules. One of those was about The Netherlands as a flat country below sealevel and what people do to live with the water. Hoover (and some other dams were shown as examples. I learned so much from that teacher, wow. I never regretted choosing geography as an exam subject, all those insights it gave me and just the wonder. Now I see it again. Thanks Hank :D

[@lawrencecalablaster568]

Do you think that there's a reason why everything is complicated? If everything were simple, would we notice?

[@RANDOM27ify]

Lawrence Calablaster thats deep

[@PiperClove]

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[@anw903]

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[@TheCoceAddict]

"The truth resists simplicity" -John Green (probably)

[@BlakeNordstrom366]

I think that if everything were simple, we would still find a way to make it seem complicated. I think about this a lot and I still can't always tell the difference between something that is actually complicated and something that we just make complicated.

[@Vissysaurus]

I love your passion about big things. Like, well, dams, they're big. It's refreshing to hear about the technical problems with them alongside the ideological ones while also acknowledging that in more than one way they're pretty awesome at the same time.

[@adrianaxto]

As an enviromental engineering student this is a dilemma I have to face daily. Haven't found a satisfying answer yet

[@yourfriendlyneighbourhoodh4700]

Adriana Vargas I don't think there is one....let me know if you prove me wrong

[@1234kalmar]

I would say, if research got proper funding, good sollutions would be popping up everywhere like mushrooms with in 10 years. But, the shareholders gotta get that extra million dollar per picosecond income, so move over nature, we're gunn make some monnaaayy! :((

[@TheMahsery]

Truth has always one face. Only illusions have mirrors. There is an answer that we might not have yet, but still there is.

[@adrianaxto]

I would agree with that if I had to consider only science cold-facts, but there are a lot of other -more subjective- things to consider. Social problems, moral codes.... it's hard to know what is the truth with those aspects

[@adrianaxto]

I am starting to beieve there's no right answer one answer. We contain multitudes and all that :/

[@mangafirecat10]

When I first watched this video, I didn't quite understand. But then I visited Glen Canyon and Lake Powell this past week and now I greatly understand your experience of marveling the beauty while also wanting nature to be.

[@MollyWinter]

Like many issues today, the environmental debate is too often seen as a contest of humans vs. nature, and because of that, people tend to get lumped into one of two opposing groups. But there has to be a recognition that the movement to preserve the environment can be at great odds with the needs of society. I'm very much against an anthropocentric, utilitarian moral framework which only considers what is good as what benefits humanity, but I'm equally against one which dismisses human needs and desires. If when every time someone proposes that a dam be built or a pipeline be installed, the creators are met with fierce resistance, regardless of how much time was spent coming up with ways to minimize the environmental cost of the project, then it becomes much harder to take environmentalists seriously, and that jeopardizes the purpose of the environmental movement. Worse still, leaders of industry are less likely to listen to legitimate concerns raised by the community, and institutions like the EPA become targeted as nothing more than obstacles and political enemies. Ultimately, humans suffer because of this, because environmental regulations exist for a reason. What you put into the world, the world eventually gives back. There are feedback cycles everywhere in nature, and some take much longer to develop than others. Scientists have a duty to uncover those feedback mechanisms and to educate the public so that the worst consequences can be prevented or mitigated. But if science becomes political, once again, that undermines the environmental movement. Decades ago, when Pittsburgh was enveloped in smog and the Cuyahoga River caught on fire, Americans decided that clean air and clean water were resources worth protecting, and acts by those some names were created. This was something that everyone could get behind, and the connection between human and environmental welfare was painfully clear. I think that most people can't remember those times, and fewer and fewer people are able to speak to one another as fellow human beings who have a mutual interest in protecting the environment.

[@Coral_skies]

Awesome video Hank! Nature and how humanity should exist with it is a very difficult question to answer. However, this is why I work as an Environmental Educator and want to get my Master's in Conservation. Only by discussion and expression of thoughts and feelings will we get any closer to figuring things out. Thanks again! :D

[@angelapotter8084]

"You may not know much about Lake Powell..." Me, from Utah: Dude all everyone talks about during summer is their weekend trips to Lake Powell.

[@matthewcox4997]

Hey I used to live in Utah and same.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

I find this vlog quite special. It show us how there isn't a single "good"/"bad" way of thinking and sometimes there might be contradictions. A lot of people just choose one of these way of thoughts and think any other type of thinking is bad, that everyone else is simply "evil". That's the main reasons for most conflicts, including wars, that are fueled by such misunderstanding. And why the world seem so unfair, while the majority of the people just want to be "good".

[@veronica..12321]

I LOVE lake Powell. I lived fairly close (Cedar City) for the majority of my life.

[@1234kalmar]

To me it's actually pretty depressin to look at. No trees, no greenery, just... Moon surface with water... To me it's a place where we deffinitely won't meet by accident :D

[@herranton]

1234kalmar Maybe you don't want to travel there, but the people that live in the area certainly enjoy it. It isn't wrong for them to utilize this place for all the recreation that is there. By belittling the place, you also belittle the people, and that kinda makes you an ass. just sayin'

[@arrgghh1555]

Went there last year on my trip through the US and it was amazing. I wouldn't want to live there but to see, was well worth the few hours drive north from the grand canyon village if you're in the area. Also go to Bryce National park.

[@philledwith8307]

This is a beautiful and poignant and thought provoking exposition/summary/discussion. I have to listen to it two or three more times and let it all sink in.

[@gracemordor8144]

Take nothing but memories. Leave nothing but footprints. Kill nothing but time.

[@fossilfighters101]

Heck yeah Girl Scouts.

[@gracemordor8144]

fossilfighters101 Interesting. I didn't know that was from Girl Scouts. I saw it somewhere I was hiking once.

[@speedstacker51]

I don't know if I agree with "kill nothing but time" (I get the obvious message here but the proposed alternative of killing time seems wrong). To me, "killing time" is synonymous with "wasting time", which I would never advocate.

[@jesusgonzalez6715]

Grace Mordor sometimes leaving footprint is already too much

[@rudymalusa2276]

I think this is my favorite channel on you tube. I have not been watching for long, but... idk, every video seems just so spot on. I love hearing you guys! keep it!

[@ChadEichhorn]

All these notification squad people on their phones... and I'm here because youtube emailed me the notification. waddup

[@guzhenn]

No notification for me. I just happened to check the channel ahaha

[@chillsahoy2640]

I'm always confused as to how people interact with KZbin notifications. If I'm in a situation where my phone is more readily accessible than my computer, chances are it's not a good time to put everything on hold to watch a new video. If I'm ready to watch a new video, I'm either already on the subscriptions tab on KZbin, or will check it in the next 15-45 minutes. And actually, with some Vlogbrothers videos, I really wouldn't want to quickly watch them out of the blue. It's often better to make some time to watch the video, think a bit about it, watch it again (or at lest, re-watch the parts that really spoke to you), and spend some more time thinking about it. This isn't so easy to do when you're out and about, travelling or on the street or in a busy coffee shop.

[@thecolormaria]

Thank you for this thoughtful video, Hank. Lake Powell has been a huge part of my family's best memories for about 15 years now and the idea of losing it actually hurts my heart. However, I wasn't aware of all the potential damage and problems it's causing. While I'm sure there are people smarter than me contemplating how to fix this and do what's best for humans and nature in this scenario, I'm glad I finally understand why this has been such a heated topic where I'm from in Southern Utah.

[@elroyscout]

I think that the solution will have to be humanity taking it's technology out of nature. Technology has leaned on the massive power and untapped reserves of nature to get started, because it's what is called in game design a FOO Strategy... basically a relatively simple action that leads to result much more powerful than anything else available. The other characteristic of a FOO Strategy is it isn't the best option available, only the most powerful option at first. Those other, better strategies take effort. Any caveman could build a fire, but now any member of our civilization can procure tools that make fire for us. If we want to keep this ball rolling, we are going to have to put effort into the solution. Fusion reactors, space colonization and hydroponics are very complicated things that I can't do and we don't do because we can't understand them or someone else hasn't created them in a form easily accessible. If we want to keep rolling, we have to start thinking long term, not because it is going to be easy, but because it's really hard and really worth it.

[@Megan-xm5nv]

I think I love you, Hank. Seriously, you're so aware and intelligent and... simply great. Thank you for all you do. The world needs more people like you.

[@sarahannehansen4108]

Glad you enjoyed my home state :)

[@meganjensen8354]

SarahAnne Hansen same!

[@camikqzeee]

SarahAnne Hansen Me too!!

[@natalieyoung1170]

this is a great video hank. i am glad that you are able to put this feeling into words that many people (including myself) feel a LOT. great job👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@XxRosexBlack]

Really enjoyed the video so thought provoking

[@MUSICofDMI]

"I disagree with me" should be this years mantra. I love it and the thoughts behind it!

[@strawberryoes]

Lake Powell has made my soul feel icky since the moment i first saw it on video. The complete and utter lack of anything green around this huge lake just makes it feel completely alien and wrong. - person who grew up with forests and fields

[@izacefroni]

Alan Watts once said, "Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone." But I often wonder to what degree that is true - at some point we need to cup our hands and take a drink.

[@MattPalka]

Great quote from Alan Watts. Maybe the problem comes when we think we'll make is clearer by stirring it even more and trying to control it instead of trust it.

[@anyal4130]

Really interesting video Hank. This reminds me of this poem we did in English last year, 'The Moment' by Margaret Atwood. One of the few poems we studied that I actually liked!

[@TulipsToKiss]

possible unpopular opinion alert: I don't think this should qualify for punishment. sure it went over the "time limit" but it was educational. Environmental issues are among the UN's list of top global issues because they affect all of us. I vote no punishment (unless it's like a super small chill one like making a donation to some kind of environmental NGO or something, that would be okay.)

[@Pikminiman]

I can see how one might consider this an educational video based on the history lesson and the environmentalist angle, but in the end, the main purpose of this video is Hank waxing philosophical, as opposed to Hank spreading that most contagious of bugs, pure knowledge.

[@Alex-ki1yr]

TulipsToKiss ++

[@pranamd1]

+

[@ImJustHereToWatch14]

I'm with Pikminiman on this one. This doesn't feel sufficiently different from a normal Vlogbrothers video to qualify as educational. It's a good video, but not solely an educational one.

[@nechma13]

if this is the case that others don't see it as educational then let him just donate money to an environmental charity or force him to plant a bunch of trees

[@samanthatroi85]

I take buses of people around the country for tourist reasons and Lake Powell is one of the places i go a lot. Thank you for this video and the links to other videos, it will really help me in the near future.

[@gracemordor8144]

There is always a part of me that disagrees with me.

[@totalweirdo8538]

Grace Mordor And that's how we grow.

[@raixira]

Hank, you're brilliant, and I love you. You and John all too often articulate things I feel but can't say. Thank you both.

[@DIYlover89]

That place is beautiful

[@iloveyouxo3875]

wow diylover I didn't expect you here hiii

[@AlmiraBat]

As a resident of Utah, I want to thank you for bringing attention to this. And I can confirm that it's worse than it was even when I was a child (I am in my 30s). I'm also glad you guys had a great time in our backyard. :)

[@crystalclare1000]

This counts as educational. No punishment necessary.

[@rosesarelike]

crystalclare1000 If this counts as educational more than half of vlogbrothers is educational-- I call for punishment

[@rosesarelike]

Or maybe it is time for the 4 minute rule to go. It was made for the youtube of the past.

[@geovanniangelica8532]

muskaan dudeja never!

[@SleepieDogz]

I agree this is educational

[@KalimeroShow]

crystalclare1000 +

[@mareahc]

This video is so wonderful. I live in Phoenix and love to hike/camp in the desert here, but I cannot help feeling a bit guilty when I think of the water situation here or see the thick layer of smog hanging over the valley. I can't help wondering, when I am in a beautiful place like this, if we are deserving of the beautiful earth we live on. What strange creatures we are, mixing destruction and creation together like we do.

[@Aftermost3590]

700 years? I'm fairly certain it won't really matter at that point. In fact its impressive, could you imagine if there was a damn around built in 1317?

[@enoua5222]

Jace Walker, that is a very good point

[@NeufeldIan]

www.water-technology.net/features/feature-the-worlds-oldest-dams-still-in-use/ The Quatinah Barrage or Lake Homs Dam, located in Syria, is the oldest operational dam in the world. The dam was constructed during the reign of the Egyptian Pharaoh Sethi between 1319-1304 BC, and was expanded during the Roman period and between 1934 and 1938. The masonry gravity dam impounds the Orontes River and creates Lake Homs, supplying water for the city of Homs through canals. It is two kilometres long, seven metres high and has a base width of 20m. The volume of Lake Homes currently stands at 200 million cubic metres.

[@TheSandvichTrials]

That being said, dams are built a lot differently now than they were in the past.

[@zxbc1]

There are still many huge Roman aqueducts standing today and they were built as early as 2000 years ago. So 700 years into the future isn't really far-fetched at all.

[@Aftermost3590]

Thanks for the info, that's pretty cool. I just think with technologies exponential advancement, in 700 years dams as we know them may be totally different, or non existent at least in practical use.

[@inkliizii]

If you want a very interesting view of the environmental side of this, look at "Encounters With the Archdruid", by John McPhee. It's about David Brower, an environmentalist who had a particular passion for trying to prevent dams, including Glen Canyon. He considered Glen Canyon to be one of his biggest failures, but he did go on Lake Powell, and enjoyed himself. There was a lot of the same contradictions that Hank mentioned here (although definitely leaning towards the environmentalism side of things), but he was very open minded about it. One of my favorite lines from the book is (paraphrased): "I am going to take David on the lake, so that I can try to change his mind. Then, he's going to take me down the river, so he can try to change mine." I wish there was room for that sort of open-mindedness in a lot of current issues.

[@PatrickKolbay]

inkliizii Another great book is the Emerald Mile, which covers the history of the damn flooding in 1983 as well as the river runners who ran it.

[@Guitar_shred00098]

I hate when this guy tricks me into learning new things 😒

[@h.w.2860]

guardian - Meh, I like learning stuff through these videos.

[@chezfisto]

I really recommend reading "Desert Solitaire" by Edward Abbey if you haven't read it Hank. It's a memoir of his time as a park ranger in Moab, but I think the pinnacle of the book is when he takes a rafting trip down the Colorado River, specifically the part that is now underneath Lake Powell. He reflects on his experience on the river, the history of the first US survey team that travelled the Colorado, and the impending destruction of the canyons, caves, and rock formations by the Glen Canyon dam. I also recommend reading The Monkey Wrench Gang by him.

[@MichielDubbelman]

I timed the parts that were "not-educational", and I've changed my mind. This video stays under the 4 minute mark for videos if you subtract the educational part. So, I'm sorry Hank, I was too quick to judge :p Edit: Meaning above is my current opinion. (~Although it was interesting, I thought it was more just Hank's thoughts than educational... So I think a punishment is due (again)! :p~)

[@MichielDubbelman]

Yes, I agree. See my edit above :p

[@sarahgent2674]

DarkDani23693 Thoughts From Places aren't excused, and vaguely educational doesn't cut it (as seen in John's video where he applied for health insurance from the government and a traditional insurance company, which was several minutes over the limit, he deemed it educational enough but we didn't and he was punished). It's also debatable whether this is a montage (and if it is, what other videos count as montages​ and are allowed to be longer than four minutes).

[@anyal4130]

Lol, you managed to accidentally do exactly what the video is talking about there, and disagree with yourself! I just found that funny :) it's nice to see people willing to change their mind about stuff, even if it is just about a small thing like video length in this case

[@samsilbar6576]

Incredible video hank, Big heart and open mind you have. Always a pleasure brother.

[@syrahgrimm83]

Tuatara Squad!

[@fossilfighters101]

Syrah!!! (It's 8mil!)

[@syrahgrimm83]

Hi!

[@syrahgrimm83]

Hi Kau! Nice to meet you! (fancy meeting you in the comments and not the discord!)

[@adityakhanna113]

I never figured out itsatuatara. Did I miss a lot? is it fillable?

[@thomasreeder9481]

Hank this is one of my favorite videos you have done! I often am stuck between this dichotomy as well.

[@ashtuatara]

Notification Squad roll call!

[@Tannermortimer]

I love lake powell! awesome you made a video about it. all growing up when my family would go there every summer I would hear about the low water levels of lake powell. it has just gotten worse and worse. It is sad to think that in the not too distant future it will not exist.

[@BenFryetheprofessionalnoob]

Notification Squad!!!

[@tweetthang96]

I really liked this. I find myself wanting contradictory things a lot - shiny, tech marvels of the future vs a return to nature and less consumption, wanting to be independent vs wanting to be part of something where I can care and be cared for - and I find it very intriguing, very much part of the complexity that is humanity. I hadn't previously thought about how dams can so nicely capture that complexity in a concrete thing (ba dum tiss). So thanks for that!

[@cacaolvr]

Thank you for this video! I teach geography and will definitely be using this video in my class as we talk about the impact humans can, should, and shouldn't have on nature. It will also really be really great to watch these 9th graders start to realize that we can (and often times should) disagree with ourselves! Thanks again!

[@joshsz7769]

I think this counts as an educational video, also gosh you people are out for blood today.

[@coreylando6608]

Josh Sz We are not out for blood. We are out for happy meal smoothies. And if we are stretching "educational" to mean Thoughts from Places, then we might as well abolish the rule entirely.

[@joshsz7769]

true but this isn't really thoughts from places hank did quite a bit of explaining and researching for this one

[@Eastmarch2]

the rule is dumb.

[@Hollyj0lly69]

Josh Sz im confused, what is this four minute rule all about?

[@epaulsen27]

Holly Nielsen back when Vlogbrothers started, they made a rule that videos couldn't be over four minutes long, except educational videos. videos that broke the rule resulted in a punishment. There's an old video with Hank spending an entire day in a Target as a punishment for making a longer video.

[@sflibrarian]

Thank you! Heading back to Lake Powell this summer

[@TheGroovyJones]

How sadistic is everyone they watch this and their first reaction is "punishment!!"? It's not educational, but when they started doing Thoughts From Places they put that under the already existing exemption so they'd have time to get their thoughts out in a meaningful way.

[@evananderson3316]

my family, friends, and I go to lake Powell every year, I've stood in those exact places you did getting the footage for the video. and I understand what your saying but lake Powell is one of my favorite places in the world, I've spent to many nights to count falling asleep under the stars on lone rock beach. I wouldn't trade the enjoyment love and fun I have had and felt there for anything. I know it's distractive. But we must have trade offs. I think that glen cannon dam is better that. The coal plant you can see from the dam.

[@wolfieb3366]

Notification squad

[@tkprov]

I can listen to Hank talk about anything. Seriously, i love his voice!

[@nathanflannery3031]

This video was informative, but I would not call it educational. Calling for a punishment.

[@alexalmendarez3938]

Nathan Flannery paraquetecasastesju a n

[@annawenthome]

As someone who spends a lot of time in southern Utah and at times around Lake Powell, I really appreciate the nuance you've brought to this short video. Nature is wonderful and amazing, but so are human accomplishments that change nature. I often fear that we will get so protective of nature that eventually many people won't even be allowed to visit the natural places we hold so dear. That seems counterproductive as well, just in a different way than building and developing new technology. It's odd to balance a love of nature and a love of technology. Everything comes at a cost, I suppose. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on a subject I at least passively encounter nearly every week as I spend my weekends camping and hiking throughout Utah.

[@Spymask-AoC]

Punishment !

[@noemi6836]

Yes

[@mariolover2222]

Would this not count as educational?

[@noemi6836]

well I guess most of what Hank and John do is educational... like Giraffes liking Giraffes

[@Femox360]

is mainly opinion

[@PiperClove]

+

[@Daniel.Walker]

Humility and complexity. Thanks for the reminder Hank, these things are important.

[@Femox360]

i sincerely think this video is not educational enough to be this long. it’s mainly Hanks opinion

[@reggiereggiesauce5755]

Femo bear in mind it's a montage video too

[@coreylando6608]

Reggie Reggie Sauce No it isn't, it's a Thoughts from Places video. The focus isn't on the things on the screen, it's on the things he's saying. Thus, not a montage.

[@TheRiskyBrothers]

Yeah, montages are usually reserved for community videos (think "happy dance project")

[@sensei102205]

+

[@Stevonicus]

+

[@garlicNeggplant]

Interesting stuff. I didn't know Lake Powell was man-made. I have memories of camping nearby and going to swim and cliff dive into the lake during lightening storms as a child. The fact that I *was* able to cliff dive has always been a point of pride, as I was maybe 10, and that was a tall cliff.

[@epschwartzmusic]

I am currently reading Edward Abbey's DESERT SOLITAIRE. If you haven't read that, do. He's preachy some times but he was a passionate defender of the southwestern landscape. I don't agree with everything he says but the book has made me and my son plan a roadtrip to the Arches in Utah for tent camping in June. The book talks a lot about (and almost 50 years ago) the same issues you bring up here. (Usually falling on the "humans bad" side of the argument.) I recommend it.

[@JosephWillingham]

Give a plus "+" if you think the 4 minute rule should be abolished!

[@JosephWillingham]

+

[@arrietty12]

+ Luckily, the rule doesn't seem to completely stop them from making some longer videos, but personally I would like to see more

[@katieprivett8871]

Joseph Willingham +

[@bidaubadeadieu]

Joseph Willingham +

[@tess1124]

Fantastic video. Hank just explained my feelings in 6 minutes... whereas if I tried to have this conversation with someone it would take hours. The part about viewing technology as the enemy (nature vs man/technology) is really important. There are so many fads promoting "natural-ness," while the truth is that, especially in the US, technology affects us constantly, even when we don't realize it. Also thank you, Hank, for uploading those documentaries!! I find water management in the Western US, and its history, fascinating. A few years ago, I read a book called A River Lost: The Life and Death of the Columbia. It was written by a journalist, and he interviewed people that use the river, from commercial shipping companies to Native Americans to windsurfers. I recommend it to anyone interested, it has some history but is written in a compelling style (i.e. not going to bore you to sleep). I just started reading Deadbeat Dams: Why We Should Abolish the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and Tear Down Glen Canyon Dam, which has a rather provocative title, but is another interesting look, and delves more into the politics of water management and infrastructure.

[@bigsteve3481]

Punishment?

[@paniclover4138]

Nick Guirard educational

[@reggiereggiesauce5755]

Montage

[@Chomuggaacapri]

Nick Guirard Nah, too educational.

[@henrykrider179]

It's a Thoughts from Places video, typically not included under the umbrella of educational here on Vlogbrothers

[@JosephWillingham]

Henry Krider Bruh, define education. You learned something

[@ModestGirl79]

I would highly recommend books by Edward Abbey about this part of the world. Desert Solitaire is a beautiful and haunting book, and his novels like The Monkey Wrench Gang are worth the trip to the library. Thanks for the great insight, Hank! I so appreciate some grey in this terribly black and white world.

[@MonicaFulmer44]

not 100% sure if this is "educational," Hank. Thought provoking and poignant, yes. Educated statements, yes. Educational in itself.... ehhhhh I'm leaning towards no.

[@BlakeNordstrom366]

+

[@mineola_]

Monica Fulmer I feel the same thing, but I think it does count as a montage, and those are exempt from the four minute rule too, I believe.

[@9_in_the_afternoon]

+

[@sarahgent2674]

Anne, I always thought that meant (or implied) Nerdfighter montages, where in order to get all the best ones the video would literally have to be longer than four minutes, as otherwise every Thoughts From Places video or VidCon advertisement (and depending on your view, any particularly jump-cutty or subject-changey video) could be as long as they wanted. Though it is a lot of different shots on a common theme, the more important parts are the words Hank's saying, rather than the shots themselves, which is the point of a montage. The visuals are important but it wouldn't have taken much away from the video if it were one unbroken shot, and so for that reason I don't think it counts as a montage.

[@MonicaFulmer44]

My first thought was that this sounded VERY much like a Thoughts from Places!!

[@limehighliter]

Thank you for discussing this dichotomy so well. I appreciate your thoughtfulness!

[@clementine4882]

Punishment time!

[@johnspence234]

Ashton Morris educational, so probably not

[@Thaheadband33]

Ashton Morris educational

[@clementine4882]

But the point of the video wasn't home explaining the dam- according to the title it's about his internal conflict. I love him, BUT ITS PUNISHMENT TIME.

[@clementine4882]

Him*

[@sensei102205]

+

[@britneychelle87]

Cadillac desert is a great book about the history of daming americas waterways for anyone interested. Pretty easy and interesting read!

[@sammjust2233]

This video is not about the Hoover dam it's about Hank's conflicting thoughts, it's not educational. PUNISHMENT!

[@Hannah-ologist]

I'm taking an environmental sociology class right now, and one of our huge questions for the semester is "What is natural" and like, what does natural mean to humans. I'm not doing any research into water, but I'm looking t how the "natural" night sky has become a commodity and a privilege to many people. Super interesting topic, love the video!!

[@sofiavine9160]

As someone who lives in the town created by the Glen Canyon Dam, I love my dam, my lake, and the tourism it creates. Definitely have to look out for the future, but the lake has created great lives even thousands of miles away :)

[@BillMarion]

Mind blown. Great Video. Wow. Excellent. Very grateful you shared your thoughts. Well said.

[@juliaprohaska3054]

I've been to Lake Powell (the one and only time I visited the USA) Yay!! It is strangely uplifting to see that there IS a place where both my favourite KZbinrs and me have been to. It sometimes seems to me that they are a world away, because I'm stuck in Europe, unable to get to the concerts and events. I can't even go to VidCon Europe because my parents say Amsterdam is too far away from Vienna for me to go :(

[@erberor8007]

"Part of being human is being able to want contradictory things" This is one of those little statements that holds so much meaning. When you think about it, so many human endeavors, particularly those of solving problems, arise from just such contradictory desires, and the effort people go through to reconcile those wants.

[@maggieedna]

my town recently took down the little dam on the river that runs through our town and its been so good. no floods in the spring, less gross stinky mud in the summer.

[@MissOrcaLover]

I love documentaries, thanks for including them! Love this video!