I Found The NEW BATTLEFIELD Game's FIRST Map Location!

[@PCPAyLOAD]

Believing EAs marketing is similar to living in an abusive relationship where she always says she's going to change but never does..

[@BourbonBandit-]

They already lied today by saying that for the first time ever there will be more than one studio working on the game. In reality, there were already FIVE studios working on 2042 and look how that turned out.

[@diabolicaldoodle]

Hope you are ok ❤

[@Ron.Swanson.]

who hurt you

[@Benjohns89]

@@Ron.Swanson. EA

[@msaeedazizi]

Did they really say that today, "for the first time"?​

[@Eeveefall]

Based on that first concept art with Gibraltar in the background, I genuinely hope it will have that same sense of scale. I know 128 players sounds bad but it wasn't the player size that made it bad, it was having them play in poorly designed wide open maps. If there were more big city maps, with urban warfare being the main draw, it can totally work; even with just 64 players. This would be cool because I liked BF3's Rush maps feeling really varied as it would progress. I also like that feeling of you being part of a larger battle, you're just a cog in the war machine. If the maps are designed well, you can totally pull off a BF3/4 but bigger and better on modern hardware.

[@fiuzzii]

@Eeveefall netcode was awful. Hit reg was really bad. It's not just poorly designed maps. They need much more powerful servers

[@RyneLanders]

​@@fiuzzii yeah, but that's because the fucked up BF 2042. The server tick rate was fixed in BF4 thanks to the public testing servers. They regressed sooooo much with 2042.

[@SwagduDF]

No 128 confirmed. That’s overkill. Most likely back to 64 or slight increase from 64

[@valna6219]

128 players is way to many players for battlefield. The game and maps need to be designed to work with that many players. It’s either 1 or the other you can’t have both 64 player games and 128 player games it wouldn’t work because of map size. 32 vs 32 is the better battlefield experience anyways for more tactical, class, team-oriented gameplay. 64 vs 64 just turns in to a chaotic, nade spamming, prone thermal LMGS, tank camping, brainless sh*t show. It’s boring as hell and it’s dumb. I’ll admit it is funny though and that’s still achievable the maps would just need to be smaller in size.

[@brianhecimovich4488]

DO. NOT. PRE ORDER.

[@High_Lord_Of_Terra]

I'LL. DO. WHAT. I. WANT

[@itstommymate]

No Specialist = Pre-order. Unless the beta is garbage.

[@fiuzzii]

preorder because it will have a community's test, if its good, I will

[@slamminx3]

Never understood why people pre-order. Just get the game when it releases right. Not like you're getting it any earlier.

[@sheg9629]

i thought i regreted preordering 2042, later found out im happy i wasnt, thought not the best, i enjoy it even today

[@UkAlphadog73]

Remember When BF Hype A Year Before Release Was Intoxicating,This Is Battlefields Final Time To Shine

[@Episode_13]

BF for whatever game they release always have amazing trailers! The best!!!

[@djjayem100]

Nope, It had its time to shine with 2042 and they blew it.

[@UkAlphadog73]

@@djjayem100 Since it all went Woke Dice Collapsed Now they have 1 more chance to Right the wrongs.We shall see Just do not preorder

[@jimmieakesson8816]

ppl have been saying that after bfv and what happend ?..

[@0uttaS1TE]

We said that last time too

[@lj5190]

As a COD fanboy, this is great news. Call of Duty and Warzone need a good competitor to keep them honest.

[@TheTacticalBrit]

I don't think they're the same games personally but a casual shooter that's fun to play with friends is desperately needed in today's sweat market

[@lj5190]

@@TheTacticalBrit They do offer different experiences, but they've always been compared, fairly or unfairly.

[@theendurance]

lol as a BF fan, BF has never and will never truly compete with COD, let alone Warzone. Remember BFV's battle royale mode? Yeah, me niether. BF has never sold anywhere close to COD, COD is just on another level. Even the worst selling COD games sold way more than the best selling BF games. That doesnt mean BF isnt a great franchise, but the comparison between BF and COD never made any sense.

[@Jollyman432]

@@theendurance cod peasants never learn they will buy the same junk game every year

[@ponraul1221]

Going after zany shooters like CoD is why BF is faltering. If anything BF needs to move further away towards serious, gritty, and authentic design.

[@shadydelivery]

damn man, you nailed that last 60 seconds or so. battlefield being the last remaining casual shooter with a server browser. don't have to engage in studio forced modes, eh hem call of duty. i cannot wait. zampella has a proven track record over 20 years. we should be in good hands next fall

[@Mischael173]

The last thing I need is another battle royal. Imo they just focus on a good BF multiplayer. So yeah I'm quite sceptical

[@paulhancock]

The casual way in which they dropped this is a good sign, IMO. They're not trying too hard to convince you it's going to be AMAZING, it just sounds like they're quietly confident that they're doing the right thing again. I know we've all been tricked, cheated and hurt by Battlefield before but let's hope for the best. There is no doubt that Delta Force appearing as a legitimate competitor should force them to up their game and know that if they get this wrong, players can now go elsewhere and the game will absolutely bomb. Competition is a good thing.

[@animanaut]

one core tenant of bf, to me at least, is synergistic selfless teamplay. that was baltantly violated in 2042 with the me me me a superhero one man army design mindset

[@LA_Breakerz]

@@animanaut 2042 was great. And 128 player conquest is still poppin on cross play.

[@amapnamedpam]

@@LA_Breakerz 2042 was and still is ass. you must be a 12 year old cracked out gamer to find that shit gameplay good. Lets not even get into the game at release which was a fucking joke

[@msaeedazizi]

Vince Zampella has never missed. From working on older MoH games, to spearheading the creation of Call of Duty as a franchise, to leading the development of CoD2, CoD4 and MW2, to finally found Respawn and creating Titanfall franchise... His involvement here as the lead for Battlefield franchise gives me hope, but, allas, we all need to stay cautious and wait for reviews, previews and hands-on gameplay impressions

[@TheTacticalBrit]

Proof is in the pudding. But when EA said they had Industry leading figures working on the next instalment, they aren't wrong

[@BourbonBandit-]

During the conference today, one of the people on stage speaking mentioned that this time around there will be more than one studio working on the game. What she failed to mention is that this is not a new thing for the franchise (like they want you to think) because there were at least FIVE studios working on 2042. We don't even know the name of the game yet and they're already lying to us. Don't pre-order.

[@nolifebr]

Tom Henderson already had said early this year that Ripple Effect was working on a F2P Battle Royale "standalone" mode for the next BF. He even confirmed an extra mode to the game called Gauntlet where it was a spin on a Battle Royale mode/genre but with rounds and objectives (more or less like The Finals).

[@msum23]

man, haven't we moved on from BR's yet??? Why do DICE do this. It ruined COD. We want people in the MP, not in the BR.

[@RobAddison86]

That sucks. EA already has apex, we don't need another

[@nolifebr]

@@RobAddison86 - Sorry, but saying that a BF Battle Royale would be similar to Apex is like saying that BF is similar to Quake just because they are both FPS. The only military battle royale title on the market right now is Warzone. People who play Warzone don't play Apex, Fortnite or anything like that.

[@RobAddison86]

@nolifebr Never once did I say they were clones. I'm only saying that sorry I don't agree, and that a publisher doesn't need 2 BRs. You don't see Activision making an apex competitor, EA doesn't need a warzone competitor.

[@dirtyhaz9517]

I'm getting strong BF3 Aftermath DLC vibes from the 3rd picture & I luv it

[@bandito212x6]

im genuinely exited at the news, i think they may actually deliver this time. lets hope this hits as hard as bf1

[@jesse76th96]

its all talk until the game releases. or get fooled again thats up to you

[@Hunter57588]

I’m excited too but don’t want to get expectations too high. *Remember, no pre-order.*

[@Mulderfactoring]

Bad Company 2, Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 are better than Battlefield 1. 20 years playing BF. Don't get me wrong Battlefield 1 looks beautiful! But for me, that's it.

[@uptheau2875]

@@Mulderfactoringbeen playing since 1942 and played bc2 most of my childhood. But there is not one single battlefield, let alone multiplayer game that captures the immersion that BF1 does. Multiplayer, gunplay and graphics was bar none.

[@Episode_13]

@@Mulderfactoring Ummm BF1 is a work of art, fans really need to wake up, that game won awards!

[@brassknucks9221]

Dark, gritty, loads of destruction. BF3 x B1 please.

[@bearacuda]

Trust NOTHING EA says. Do NOT get sucked into the hype. Wait and see if words = actions. Do NOT pre-buy. The only thing that motivates companies is profit. Believe NONE of the touchy-feely emotions about 'back to basics' and 'classic Battlefield'. Companies use emotions to manipulate their customers. Make it so EA only makes a profit IF they deliver a great game on day 1 ! Do NOT pre-buy. Wait and see if the game is worth your money. Remember, game mechanics are more important than game graphics. Wait until we get to see actual game mechanics.

[@cyathoris7530]

@@bearacuda how about you just let people make their own choices?

[@LoCoAde87]

​@@cyathoris7530You're entitled to make your own choices. But what he absolutely said is true for anyone with more than single digit brain cells to work with tbh.

[@something6698]

Just a game calm down 😭

[@crackerjack2303]

Just started playing bf1 last night and im addicted and looking forward to the new one! I actually have fun playing BF unlike cod nowadays

[@NotThatGuyPal.]

Servers still full?

[@Fire157_]

@@NotThatGuyPal. yup

[@damedash1147]

They should add the customization of soliders to the game like how the game world war 3 did for the pc two years ago

[@Zlengo]

I trust Vince Zampella. He's responsible for amazing games like CoD4, MW2, Titanfall and Apex. He knows what he is doing.

[@Alkron1]

@@Zlengo I don’t think apex should be on that list 💀

[@Watskeburt]

Well lets hope EA as a publisher doesn't want to rape the game by rushing development and save on budget. If they won't do that and let the developers make some true art they will make a lot more money.

[@msaeedazizi]

​@@Alkron1love it or hate it, Apex's launch and its first seasons were amazing. That is why the game took off like it did to begin with.

[@Alkron1]

@@msaeedazizi the game right now is so sad 😭😭 I used to love it when it first came out, cause like you said it was actually fun, but now it’s horrible

[@ajarmetta]

Plus i think ea is giving him full freedom to because of the money ea got from him compared to other game leads

[@Pac_2o12]

Just hope for a gritty game with BF3/4 era feeling

[@christianallan4555]

Tank screenshot. Iceland? It would make a beautiful map, and volcanic!

[@Madjock56]

Heres hoping its up there with bf1 and playablity of bf3,4 and 5 but clearer graphics that was failing of bf3 and 4 looked like vasaline on the lens

[@tomgillotti]

As a PUBG loyalist and nostalgic Battlefield fan, give me a good new BR to play.

[@lorwally13]

Please god no we have enough

[@tomgillotti]

@@lorwally13 there’s 10 arena shooters to every BR. We have too much of something…

[@Eeveefall]

I think an extraction shooter would work better. Like imagine PUBG but without the circle, occasional vehicles, and lots of destruction. The gunplay will be the hardest part to balance though. Personally, I wouldn't mind if it had semi realistic gunplay like in PUBG so as long as recoil is just as tough to master.

[@tomgillotti]

@@Eeveefall love this!

[@yak-machining]

@@tomgillotti no no no no no no no NO NO battle royale

[@whitehawkgt7270]

I made the mistake of buying the top tier version of 2042 a few years ago at around $100 USD. Won't fall for anything the say or promise this time around. For as much as I used to love the BF franchise, I'll wait until this new game is on sale or will probably end up skipping it completely.

[@TheUnorthodoxx]

Exactly!

[@-Rambi-]

I can up you one. I bought ultimate for the EA app but the app couldn't handle controller for heliflight so I also bought gold veraion on Steam

[@endth1s10]

Done the same mate, played beta and refunded, because that wasn’t impressive enough for money they asked. Entirely your fault if you didn’t refunded the game or if you didnt spend your time doing your homework before purchasing.

[@aspirewot8408]

I didn't made mistake I loved 2042 it's same as bf4 but with some new mechanics .Nice try

[@endth1s10]

@@aspirewot8408 whatever is making you happy bro, what about concord, did you liked that as well ?

[@RingoSkye]

Lets see if Vince stays true to his word. He would gain money but lose the trust of almost all his fans if he ends up bullshitting everyone. Dont know whats more important to him

[@nerdedkyle3515]

It all sounds good I'ma hardcore bf fan been there since day 1 I hope they pull this off but after the last game I try not to get hyped up

[@PedroLima13]

hope they include those hilarious Gibraltar monkeys 🤣.

[@-Luke--hn5uv]

I wonder if the game will just be called Battlefield and nothing after it. I really am hoping they make the game have a gritty atmosphere and a realistic tone and cosmetics.

[@ponraul1221]

So now it's basically confirmed that there is a British faction

[@smashdintel6406]

ITS OUR ROCK!

[@JRussellxx]

And a Spanish faction? xD

[@JRussellxx]

@@smashdintel6406 Maybe the battle decides if it's again spanish xD

[@msaeedazizi]

No it doesn't???

[@xavier01110]

@@msaeedazizi well, it kinda does as Gibraltar is British.

[@bigfoot9049]

I need that squad limit to go up to 5, maybe 6 even.

[@petemaddox1716]

Its looking very promising so far, going back to the roots is an easy win for zampella. In regards to player count always though 100 was a good number that could work on old BF maps as you often had uncontested points

[@MrDuckford-oO]

I'll see you all on the Battlefield...albeit 3-4 months after release, if the reviews are good. Probably pick it up for $2 on sale. I don't trust EA anymore. Their product strategy is to release an incomplete game for every product that is going to have a live service, so that their live service is completing the development of the game. They have done this so many times, that I have no doubt that this is their business strategy. And is by design.

[@Beanszo]

@@MrDuckford-oO dude ive been thinking the same thing! they are making their games as if it was being crowd funded then finally completed a few years after initial release.

[@timtams5283]

Yup, sounds like every single EA game design alright

[@LoCoAde87]

Yup, just wait till Christmas, at least. Unfortunately, too many will be engulfed with FOMO.

[@GuyHarwood]

I really hope you are wrong about the battle Royale suggestion. would much prefer a proper portal with a big set of classic maps, soldiers, factions and gear

[@TheTacticalBrit]

I feel like Portal will also feature

[@ShadowReaper-pu2hx]

I hope they don’t use the greyed-out color scheme of Battlefield 3 & 4. I want Battlefield 1/V in a modern setting.

[@peterfranz6696]

DUDE good job, I've been looking too, but sure is gibralter👨‍⚖

[@TexasGreed]

Gibraltar is geopolitically important because of the "Strait of Gibraltar" waterway that connects the Atlantic ocean to the Mediterranean sea. A choke point that has a massive portion of the worlds trade passing through it. Essentially connecting all of Europe's southern countries to the rest of the world. Straits are often in Battlefield and war games in general because they are global shipping chokepoints. Gulf of Oman is near the Strait of Hormuz which is probably the most important strait in the world to control during a war. (17million barrels of oil ship through it per day, thats 20-30% of global consumption) Also the Strait of Taiwan will be highly contested because Taiwan's computer chip manufacturing capabilities being unmatched anywhere else in the world.

[@BGM_BlackGamerMusic]

Whats the Song called that plays from 4:55 until 7:40 ? I feel like i heard it before...

[@user-ne9sd4ow1o]

2042 concept art looked like this and we all know how that turned out 💀😑 If you said this is left over art from 2042 I'd believe you.

[@vietconghank1364]

I would like to see more vehicle combat just hope they find a good balance between infantry and vehicles

[@blacklight4720]

We'll have a mode where EU forces have to sink boats belong to 1llega1 1m1grants faction, which is trying to sneak into Europe. It's going to be like zombie mod in cod.

[@MightiestBeard]

At this stage I am positive about their messaging, but still cautious. They have someone who knows the right things to say after how badly they effed up 2042, but until I see it I'm gonna be cautious. This is a nice step though. I been saying that waiting until it's too close to launch to announce and going just for spectacle is not gonna work. So as step one I approve what's going on here.

[@lfd10noob]

Well done bro!🎉🎉🎉

[@JustPlayer20]

The third concept art seems very much like Moroccan suburbs maybe casablanca or some other major city like Tanger which is literally next to gibraltar.

[@GezOfficial]

Born there! Mad

[@ryanperrault8174]

I miss being excited to play a FPS game....the genre needs a good solid BF game again.

[@razgriz1191]

"Keep your expectations low and you will never be disappointed" - Kratos

[@xalexanderwrx]

You didn't find anything, a Reddit user found it in the battlefield forum to whom you didn't give any credit…

[@cooldloop2381]

Can you link it pls. I wanna read it rather than watching this vid.

[@tontonie1]

This

[@ghostrider2698]

@@xalexanderwrx 😂

[@TheTacticalBrit]

Believe it or not. I, as do 1000s of others, don't use reddit. I also tweeted about Gibraltar within an hour of this concept image being released.

[@cooldloop2381]

@@TheTacticalBrit oh ok, I’ll rewatch the video. Also cool that you found the location.

[@isaacrhodes4617]

Any idea on what the factions will be?

[@paullapworth2426]

I would have liked to have played firestorm bf5 when it had full lobbys

[@amapnamedpam]

you didnt miss much, mostly just dying to dudes just hiding in bushes with no interesting poi

[@pureplay7071]

bf1 had the best trailer by far. I remember everyone was 'just wowed by it.

[@1Reddd]

It worries me that the tanks in the second concept art does not look to be an Abrams but is definitely inspired by it, which could mean we aren't going to get real equipment like vehicles, guns, and such, but knockoff versions which kinda ruins the immersion for me. I hope this isn't the case. BF4 and BF3 used real weapons, real tanks and vehicles, I would like for it to go back to that.

[@somerandomgamer1260]

If they don’t drop a BR that would be a massive mistake. I have never play battle field but I think I speak for all warzone mains when I say we are are desperate for a competitor to come along and make a better BR with no/low sbmm.

[@sinnombre__]

Its pretty damn simple. ■ For history and context, BF4. Now, better than ever, we should be worried about the constant expansion of the People's Republic of China. Theyre pretty much present in some way or shape or form in every single place on this world (Libraries in Salvador, Industry in Africa, Factories in Europe, the whole car market obliterating the western one, their own space station, their own space program, super-high speed rail lines between China and Southeast Asia...) and are a legit contender for the next Superpower. ■ For gameplay, either BF3/4 or BF1. Keeping it simple, with the classic class system and a gunsmith that' not too strange. Add realistic camos and youll have locked in the grinding community. ■ For QoL, BF4. God, i wish we were back to the days we could use our PHONES to help your teammates as a commander, or be able to change loadouts, emblems or know about the servers right on a interactive website. Literally no other game has had this that I know of. Have I even mentioned XP boosters back then ONLY worked when you were spawned in on the missions? So 0% FOMO? ■ And for merchandasing, DONT. Waste of money. If you game is succesful, and does well at launch thanks to the money you saved without paying those adversitement labels, your game will explode for free just like Among Us, OG Fortnite or Lethal Company. Social media is the media that moves the most people, and influencers are willing to make your game get famous FOR FREE!

[@Tranners_]

With Warzone in such a bad way, there's definitely space for a Battlefield BR to take the mantle if it's serious, no chance it will ever take over the MP player base though, that's been CoD's bread and butter for way too long.

[@LoCoAde87]

It's possible. But they would need to hit 2-3 banger games on the spin for sure. Like Bad Company 2 - BF3 - BF4 - BF1 was a great run and arguably better than COD's peak run (MW3 mp was awful IMHO), but also it needs COD to keep up with their stupidity too.

[@fubarexress6359]

Make them earn our business back. Make them have the worst pre-order turn out they could ever imagine. I don’t care if the beta is incredible and it’s literally the best battlefield ever released. Wait until the game is out.

[@greggblack8205]

Hell if the Beta was good why would it get worse? That makes no sense at all.

[@the_wretched]

It's a pity that EA still has their grimey fingers all up inside BF. Undoubtedly, their greed will be ever present.

[@WojtekCzaderna]

I hope that Vince Zampella for EA is like Deadpool for Marvel. Battlefield Jesus...

[@bobbavet]

HAven't got the last couple of BF's. Only a new 2142 could bring me around.

[@LoCoAde87]

This is honestly last chance saloon for the series bar any remastering done for older games.

[@iKobe1211]

Recuperaremos Gibraltar

[@djjayem100]

Don't Get your hopes up guys, No pre orders. PLEASE

[@BigBubbaloola]

Gibraltar huh? Well this'll piss someone off.

[@johnboy19842657]

Id like to see gameplay slowed down a bit, 2042 was more like COD kind of pace. Really took away from that slightly more chilled Battlefield pace

[@Ishmail762]

There’s NO WAY they are doing a new Camp Gibraltar 😭 I miss this map sooo much

[@noshadow996]

2042 been great this last while, can’t wait for this

[@amapnamedpam]

idk how people play 2042, i went back and yeah the bugs are mostly gone but the maps and COD -light gameplay is just trash

[@Markov092]

Camp Gibraltar from BF2142 coming back?

[@mkdisciple]

Gibralter in WW2 was one of the best maps

[@jesper2872]

I Just want Battlefield Portal and Multiplayer

[@aliharvey448]

Drones, robots, a.i. hacking, 1st gen energy weapons. Mech suits?

[@Barstool_cub_driver]

Remember no preorders.

[@if6was985]

I'll not stop playing bf1 unless....

[@xmuzel]

Gibraltar was the Karkand of 2142. Yes I know, 2142 also had Karkand

[@ajarmetta]

This is it, if this battlefield bombs the franchise is over

[@b0rg1010]

Normally I'd get excited but I don't expect much. A lot of talk tbh.

[@Thenippyowl7]

Frankly i was expecting the continuation of BF 5 with its newer Frostbite engine. Non the less, im not that pasionate about modern warfare but if they stick with the Frostbite used în BF 5 i may be interested. They used the Frostbite engine from BF 1942 în 2042 and i didnt like it

[@sangobrotherhood6471]

i hope they bring back night mode

[@kingart23]

if battlefield will release BR mode with proper matchmaking system & meaningful ranks they will fry.

[@rosswagner498]

Bring back 64 player Rush and the BF4 Devs

[@ArdyIRL]

I was waiting for someone to partner with rainbolt for this ahhaa

[@hearsesrock482]

I hope the third mode is a sandbox mode lol

[@markTK901]

Might even get a British faction

[@jamesbeer9886]

3rd mode better be titan mode.

[@xmuzel]

I'd like to have BF2 - 2

[@ELHAUKEZ]

Someone else found it and it's just your video title. "they found" would be a little more true to yourself and others. But that just my opinion

[@Guanjyn]

Please please please different map makers from 2042…

[@cubeflinger]

Make spain great again

[@mayazmahmud1740]

Why Gibralta? I dont see any strategic significance of this place given how friendly Spanish people are, They will not go to war so easily

[@Blessed_Souls]

I want to fight in New York or downtown LA

[@timtams5283]

After the SCAM that was Battlefield 2042, I AM NOT buying another DICE or EA games ever again! Give me back my money DICE!!

[@bimbuerton362]

I’m telling you if this game launches w a BR mode it’s already over. Thats already too much time and resources taken away from the core modes that people actually buy Battlefield for. Seriously trying to compete w something like Warzone and other BR modes has to be the dumbest thing they could do at this point in time….

[@Silentheaven89]

no you didnt someone on reddit did

[@flexdon5188]

Not falling for this EA

[@CMDRFandragon]

Camp Gib was the best and most annoying map at the same time

[@algerian2389]

After 2042 im not trusting them + even if the next game is good adding ai players to it is gonna ruin it for me im playing online to play with real ppl not bots

[@Anonymoususer1930]

@@algerian2389 there is no ai next game

[@carlthomas99]

are we back?

[@Xeatra]

@@carlthomas99 we won't know until we play it

[@DJNefarious447]

I truly hope so!

[@Xeatra]

@@DJNefarious447 we all do, I want to go back to being a true support with a long and ammo box

[@carlthomas99]

@@DJNefarious447 same dude

[@DJNefarious447]

Lets assume we get Assault, Medic, Engineer, and Recon, what are you boys picking?

[@MeoithTheSecond]

I just want Planetside 3... sick of the reskins and cod like gameplay.

[@ccchhhrrriiisss100]

BATTLEFIELD 7: FULL GLOBAL CONFLICT

[@NateJRSatt]

Don't buy into the hype. At the end of the day, the guy who led the development of Apex Legends is leading Battlefield now. Two totally different types of games. I won't be surprised at all when some of Apex's steampunk arcade BS carries over into this. We need an authentic, grounded, semi-realistic military shooter. Not a cartoon network shooter.

[@JankeyCreator]

5v5v5v5 squad death match and I am back.

[@pacnbeans]

Lebanon !?

[@MacGuyver85]

Beep beep.

[@Mischael173]

Actually would be an amazing location for a map