I Look At The Technology That Will End Range Anxiety Forever

[@tjw52x]

For anybody starting to watch, he actually gets to the point at 13:50s mins in.

[@garrycroft4215]

This new car with a generator has been around from 2013-2023 it’s called the BMW i3 REX ❤

[@terrymackenzie6784]

The original Chevrolet Volt/Bolt was full series hybrid and London Black Cabs also have an option for a petrol range extender so yes they have been around for some time 😊

[@paulweston1106]

@@terrymackenzie6784 Didn't we have the Vauxhall Ampera in the UK that was the same. I seem to recall seeing one but also seem to recall that it was very expensive for what it was at the time.

[@GraemeHart8888]

Yes and hybrids have been round at least 27 years

[@David-bl1bt]

​@paulweston1106 yes, that's correct....just like the BMW i3 it was way ahead of its time.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

@@paulweston1106 yes the Ampere was the European name name of the car

[@timoliver8940]

I ran a 28kWh Mini S E for 3 years, never suffered from range anxiety but on trips that were longer than the battery range on a charge then charger anxiety became an issue here on the west coast of Scotland. I now have a 64kWh battery in my new Mini Countryman S E and even charger anxiety has gone away

[@phillmorris8470]

Hi Dave, Nissan Qashqai 1.5 h e-Power has been available in UK since 2022. It has a petrol engine which charges the battery which powers the electric motor. It drives like an EV but uses ICE to charge the battery. I was tempted to buy one earlier this year, but went full BEV instead with an Audi Q4 e-Tron and I love it. So cheap to charge at home using Intelligent Octopus Go 😊

[@GruffSillyGoat]

e-power cars are slightly different to plug-in range extenders; as Nissan points out in their small print during their adverts. The e-power mdodels are series-HEVs rather than series-PHEVs, so the electrified power range is tiny at a few miles (

[@mikegipson1224]

Trouble is your still burning petrol at some point so just wait for the bigger faster charging batteries that are already here... :)

[@mentality-monster]

True. Though you could imagine that a lot of petrol drivers may buy one of these, never use the petrol engine and then the next car they buy being a full ev. Could get them over the initial hurdle.

[@DrDave_63395]

Of the hybrid options, battery extender (BIX) make most sense. Battery large enough to encourage you to drive mainly on EV. Petrol engine running at constant speed optimised to generator giving longer range. No gearbox/clutch.

[@richardblakey3345]

My first exploration into battery power was a Volvo XC60 T8. After a bit of fun tearing around with the 400bhp I realised that I could drive the vast majority of my miles on pure electric from my PodPoint wall charger. Throughout Covid 19 I ran cardiology clinics 15 miles away. I could do 25 miles on the battery and so on the way home I stopped at Tesco and added 8 miles for free while shopping so I could do the whole journey on electric. When I sold it 3 years later I calculated that I had only used the engine for 6000 out of 30,000 miles. A total waste of an amazing car but I was already convinced that I should move to full BEV. Because the engine was utterly pristine I got the same amount for the car as I paid for it. That £33,000 paid the vast majority of my Kia Niro EV4. The Volvo could drive up to 60mph before the petrol engine kicked in.

[@benregler9872]

I've lost count how many people ask me how far my car can travel on a charge 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

Say, “a million miles!” EVery ICE owner lies about fuel mileage 🎉

[@teddy143ify]

I recently got my first ev for the following reasons , 1 ease for my wife to travel as she disabled, 2 the running cost as i charge at home or work its a fraction of the running cost of my previous diesel car, 3 reduce my carbon foot print if not for me for my children and grandchildren. I had sola panels which help reduce my electric consumption. The idear of a petrol generator is a great idear but then defeats the carbon emmisions. I have the same thing from ice car drivers ......what about the range and i say its fine for me for the rang i do and if i have to travel further the savings i make will off set the expenses in publc charging . So manny people say j can fill up in a few minutes you carnt, my come back i charge when am asleep at a fraction of your cost. Best commitment fro a ice car driver was ....whats a bit of polution and when your batter bursts into flames and it take 4 to 5 days to put out will be mor polution........have some of there people got a braine and do they belive global warming is fake and a bit of polution they cause wont count

[@ziploc2000]

They love to go to the EV fires, but ignore the fact that gas cars burst into flames 100 times more often.

[@davidstanley4877]

The little BMW had this but they took it out years ago. Happy to see it back. BMW i3 range extended, think you can still pick up a decent second hand one.

[@vitspinka1]

The i3 REX was not a success. Too expensive while most people would not use it frequently enough to make it worth the investment. And an engine that runs just few times a year is not a happy engine, yet you still need to maintain it, change oil, etc.

[@davidstanley4877]

@@vitspinka1I should clarify. I’m glad to see it back IF it’s better technology which after all these years I would hope it is.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

Range extender EVs are nothing new, BMW i3 REX and the Vauxhall Ampera to name a couple. I don't see any benefit for them these days with a good coverage of chargers in the UK and across Europe. They are no more efficient than ordinary hybrids and if you only do a long journey a couple of times a year charging an EV is hardly a chore or anymore expensive.

[@David-bl1bt]

​@@davidstanley4877 nope...BMW in their wisdom have ditched it in favour of bloated mega expensive suv's to feed their elitist snobcentric loyal fanbase.

[@timoliver8940]

Nissan has been selling these generator assisted EVs for at least 18 months in the UK, the petrol engine is purely a generator with no connection to the wheels

[@davewoodsmusic]

We just got our first EV a gen 2 Nissan Leaf, yes it's range is under 150 miles and it has a type 2 and a ChaDemo rapid charge port, but it's a damn good car, my wife does a 56 mile round trip commute 5 days a week and general daily weekend driving, we have a 7kw Hive charger on a BG EV driver tariff so we get 12 months free on off peak, why a Leaf, well honestly it's down to cost, we are leasing it over 3 years with a 12/35 deal with 15000 MPY full maintenance Inc tyres and brakes etc and full recovery for £202 P.M.

[@robertvasey1785]

Surely a car which carries batteries and a tank of fuel and a 1 - 1.5 litre engine. Means the car will be heavier which will make the car less efficient on batteries and less efficient on mpg

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes, a waste of time.

[@chrishar110]

Don't forget that that engine will need service no matter if it run a mile or 100k miles. Wasted money to buy the engine, for the services and the extra power you need to move the extra weight. That engine needs more space under the bonnet too. You can have bigger boot.

[@karlwest437]

Yep, whichever system is propelling the car, the other system is dead weight

[@David-bl1bt]

Yep, the worst of all worlds. Hybrids are manufacturers get out of jail card as they are considered to be an " electric" powered vehicle and count towards their quotas. They also have the luxury of ripping off buyers with the usual servicing requirements and costs for the petrol engine ....that is rarely used. Routine servicing is a big money earner for dealers who impose bullying tactics to ensure they get your repeat servicing business year on year because you must have it done to keep your warranty validated.

[@teem5642]

But remember , no gearbox weight, no drive train etc, just a small engine that doesn't weigh much

[@35014]

Another excellent video Dave. An interesting summary of the options, although I am convinced that a major part of the EV resistance is driven by the media, who seem to love being negative. I have had an EV for four years and have only charged away from home a few times. Incidentally the use of a range extender was used on the BMW I3 for years but no-one else in the UK has offered it.

[@jimf4748]

I've had EV's for over 5 years and in all that time I've only charged, on a journey, twice. Like most people I rarely drive more than 200 miles and that's within the range of my car. Figures show the majority only drive around 7000 miles per year, about 150 miles per week. For most, range anxiety shouldn't be an issue.

[@ab-tf5fl]

That's true. But, the fact that charging away from home is rarely needed is a double-edge sword. Yes, you need it very rarely, but that means that when you do need it, it's unfamiliar. And people don't like the unfamiliar. The irony is that the EV driver who is least likely to have range anxiety going on a trip is the one who doesn't have home charging, since public charging is a familiar experience for them. If it were possible for people to fill up gas tanks at home, with gas stations needed only for road trips, people not used to road trips would get range anxiety in a gas vehicle too.

[@rogerphelps9939]

That is fine for people like you and me who have somewhere off road in which to charge. Unfortunately there are far too many without such a facility.

[@stevecoinitin7521]

Yes range anxiety, yes charging anxiety still, but above all, I won't buy an EV with a lithium ion battery! About 250 tons of ground are mining for the average EV battery and that is shocking! And I really don't trust those batteries enough.

[@Yorkshireasaurus]

@@stevecoinitin7521 Could you post a link for that claim about the mining?

[@stevetodd7383]

@@stevecoinitin7521 you’re using the wrong metrics. The total environmental impact of an EV, starting from mining from minerals through materials and energy to manufacture, ship, run through its lifetime etc, is less than ICE. When it has come to the end of its useful lifespan then an EV is 90% recyclable, which is better than ICE also.

[@pauleast4372]

The range extension engine may keep the ICE nerds happy for a while, but the new generation of batteries from BYD and CATL, with super-fast charging and remarkable range will, within a couple of years, make this a joke.

[@kensmith8701]

I had a Mitsubishi outlander phev for 5 years. Charged at home every night 120k miles over that period. The engine mainly run to charge the battery which drove the twin motors. You could drive up to motorway speeds on ev only. When required the slip clutch would kick in and give assistance to the front motor directly. The rear motor was always driven directly by the battery. There are many that do not understand how a phev works or how to get the best out of them. I am now 2 months into full EV. Charge at home and use public charging for my longer journeys. Longest so far 700 miles.

[@markburton8303]

It's an interesting topic. The Edison truck is fascinating - Electric power with batteries and a generator. The batteries supply peak demand meaning the the 'generator' can by sized nominally. Mind you, the application seems to centre around logging etc which has it's own set of parameters.

[@LysanderLH]

CHARGE anxiety! Not range anxiety!

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Better buy a Tesla then !!!!😆

[@LysanderLH]

@ If we hadn’t already bought one, I definitely would not buy a Tesla now. Musk is a neo-fascist.

[@PJWey]

Petrol price anxiety is far worse

[@PJWey]

@@stevenbarrett7648or just choose reliable chargers and networks.

[@LysanderLH]

@ People will pay any price for fuel.

[@rickyjulian496]

All workplaces with car parks should have charging facilities.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

That will happen when managers are smarter, realize that charging MAKES money’ So it won’t happen😂

[@robinbennett5994]

Lots of our managers are getting flashy new EVs through the salary sacrifice scheme, and then they decided that we needed a row of chargers in the car park - and that lead to some people who can't charge at home getting EVs too.

[@NorthernSoulieKTF]

Why? What makes a driver expect his/her employer provide the “fuel” for their vehicle? What makes an EV driver so special.

[@paulweston1106]

Not all buildings will have sufficient capacity on their incoming main to add multiple chargers and upgrading could be expensive. Building owners may partner with charger providers to get around the supply upgrade and install costs but then you are at the mercy of the CPO pricing.

[@paulweston1106]

@@NorthernSoulieKTF Building owners don't need to provide free charging, they could actually generate some income from their employees by offering paid charging facilities. Many companies also like to boast about their environmental credentials so providing EV charging, even if paid, is just something else they can add to their boasts.

[@Jaw0lf]

This is a bit crazy as it still uses petrol and emits pollution. Yes it is a lot less than a full engine, but still bad. My EV driving has seen a few long trips where a couple of stops were needed anyway and I charged up at that time and left when ready. That was with a Kia E Niro with slower charging. No issues at all. Most people think they will need this but would probably never use it and then they are carrying extra weight and again a flammable liquid.

[@ziploc2000]

Exactly. I see a huge number of vehicles that people drive on the off chance that they need to do some major construction work, or go off road through the Amazon jungle, or something. Most of us don't do that stuff, and don't need 4 tons of metal as an emotional support vehicle.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Currently between homes so charging at the nearest Tesla supercharger for our daily mileage, our complaint being the car charges too fast so we have to get our coffee to go which is really annoying. It seems the Chinese took a BMW i3 REX to bits and liked it !. We used to have a Range Rover P400e with about 25 miles of electric range which did my wife's daily commute to and from work, we only used petrol on the longer weekend trips, quite a bit of a saving over the traditional diesel only RR.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

SMMT stats out today report all car fuel-type except BEV new car sales were down in October this year over last, with hybrid (both PHEV and HEV) sales down. Overall so far this year petrol and diesel sales are in decline, both in sales volume and market share. Whilst EVs of all types are increasing, with BEVs having the largest volume increase (+37k), then PHEVs (25k) and HEVs (22k). Similar pattern in maket growth with BEVs leading within EVs reaching 18.1% share. HEVs in effect have become the new form of petrol/diesel vehicles, like mild-hybrids did previously. Although, even adding the HEV sales to diesel and petrol's, fossil-fuel growth still results in an overall decline so far this year. Edit: The automakers are aware of the market trend, with sales down across the board seeking to retain some level of sales by heavily discounting BEVs, being the fuel-type segment selling. Seeking to pass on the savings in lower manufacturing costs (mainly gained from lower battery prices) to drive sales. With one in five BEV sales now sold at a price lower than that of petrol or diesel cars; a trend that will increase as manufacturers continue to transition their production lines to EV production and increase their range of EV models.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The term "mild hybrid" is extremely disingenuous. A euphemism for something that is practically useless for CO2 emissions reduction.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

@@rogerphelps9939 - indeed, same is true of hybrid/HEV, it can only be run on fossil-fuel and acts under electric propulsion for a very short distance (circa 1-3 mile). Even stating HEVs offer elecric propulsion is distorting as the charge is always fossil-fuel derived, even if indirectly by recovery of fossil-fuel energy spent during braking.

[@mickinmerton8053]

You have been describing serial hybrid EVs. They have been around for some time, The range extended BMW i3 had a range extender option, it was introduced 5 years ago. The LEV TX, London Taxi has been out for some years, it has an 80 mile range and a petrol engine just to extend.

[@paulboath5310]

Skoda Enyaq BEV 650miles Aberdeenshire to Portsmouth in the same time as in an ICE car. Bladder range is the determining factor in range.

[@mikechant802]

The type of range extenders described will only be better than the usual type of BHEV if the range on battery only is close to that of the battery only car. The reason BHEV's are mostly used in petrol mode is because they only have about 30 miles range on battery. It's still possible that many people will just fill up the range extender models with petrol and not plug it in, in which case the car is still running on petrol, even if it is via the battery and electric motor. That method will be more inefficient than a BHEV. Both the BMW i3 and Mazda MX-R30 don't have a fantastic battery range, and the efficiency on petrol only for the Mazda is terrible.

[@BMWHP2]

I loved the BMW i3. Great innovation and very useful in countries like Australia. We would probably have bought one when it was still available (and affordable). VW is probably building the Scouts as EREV's in the new to build USA factory. Would be even better, when they design teh EREV with the petrol generator that can be taken out and left at home when you dont need it . . . . . . ?

[@prjackson7802]

Great video

[@gsdevme]

The Mazda MX-30 R-EV is a "Ranger Extender" also, you can buy it in the UK now

[@rogerphelps9939]

I is not range anxiety. For those without home charging or the possibility of fitting home charging, far too many unfortunately, It is having somewhere to reliably charge at a reasonable price.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

All I can hope is that the same charging point still has a Chademo lead as my next vehicle will be a Nissan NV200 electric campervan.

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Hybrid batteries aren't 10kWh. They are more typically 1-2kWh. You are thinking of Plug-in Hybrid.

[@Gazer75]

Think they are a bit more, the mild hybrids with a 48V system is like 1kWh I believe.

[@Gazer75]

@1:05 I wish I had 200 miles of realistic range on my EV :) I can probably get 125 on a warm summer day in my e-Golf, but that would run down a bit to much for comfort. And this car don't show SOC% without a third party app + OBD reader. Longest I've attempted was just over 200km, so a bit more than 125 miles, and with dry conditions, +10C and a 5 minute top up at a toilet break, I went from 98% to 7%. Which means I would not have made it without the short stop. I believe it added roughly 10%.

[@franciscoshi1968]

The Outlander PHEV and some variation of the Volt work this way. What I think would be even better for towing is to have the generator on the trailer. That way you don't have to carry around a generator that you will hardly ever use.

[@David-bl1bt]

A great idea...you should patent it NOW!

[@ab-tf5fl]

The range extender idea is still just a glorified plugin hybrid with all of the same problems as a conventional plugin hybrid. Whether the engine directly moves the car or charges the battery makes no difference; a car that relies on putting fuel in the tank rather than electricity in the charging port is still running on fuel. Fuel-burning engines still have to be maintained, regardless of whether their energy is going into the wheels of the battery, and they still force to burn fuel when you don't want to do, solely to keep the fuel from going stale. A car with both a battery and an engine is still going to be more expensive to buy than a car with only a battery. And, just like with conventional plugin hybrids, this feels like a show game when government pretends that these range extender vehicles are being plugged in most of the time, and that sales of them are reducing pollution when, in fact, most of them end up never being plugged in and just running on gas, while taking subsidies that are supposed to be about promoting EVs. I'll also mention that the underlying premise justifying PHEV to begin with, that, with an EV, you go one mile over the car's range, you have to charge for a whole hour, simply isn't true, as modern EVs are capable of gaining dozens of miles of range from a fast charger in as little as 5-10 minutes. Remember, you don't have to charge all the way to full. The real solution to range anxiety is simply more chargers - both in terms of coverage and capacity. Everything else is just a smokescreen.

[@starlord8973]

Iv JUST ORDERED my NEW HYUNDAI IONIQ 5 LONG RANGE with a RANGE of 358 MILES RANGE MORE than Enough For Most People ? My Second Hyundai EV vehicle

[@westonpf]

Is that stated range or tested real world range. I'm pretty sure my Ioniq 5 doesn't get the stated range.

[@rudolfvandenbergh4641]

Years ago there was also Opel ampera with this system

[@Gazer75]

HEV/PHEVs also work great in hilly and mountainous areas. All that potential energy you gained from climbing a mountain is worthless in a pure ICE car. You can charge quite a few km on the way back down. The downside is the gearbox that reduces the efficiency of the electric motor vs a pure EV.

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

I get bum anxiety my electric van becomes uncomfortable before I run out of charge. Really looking forward to stopping and moving about for 20mins

[@salibaba]

Not exactly ground-breaking stuff there Dave. REX models have been about for ages. the BMW i3 and the LEVC both have a small motorbike engine in the boot. They still need to be serviced too so a bit of a pain. A much better new technology would be an expansion port in the boot, to allow a small supplementary battery to be temporarily installed to give a slightly longer range, or emergency power solution. Something like an Ecoflow, or one of the small battery packs used in e-mopeds.

[@mikadavies660]

PHEV is very good for the dealership that will fix your car for you. So they will happily sell them to you all day long. Plus they are expensive to buy... More money for the dealers.

[@paulweston1106]

PHEV is good for people who want the BIK tax breaks but who don't really want an EV.

[@David-bl1bt]

​@@paulweston1106 and can't be bothered to plug in at home because the company pays for their fuel, why would they?

[@warrenknight5373]

Public charging costs and charge times are big issue, the government are not investing in solar charging stations to help reduce the costs,

[@rogerphelps9939]

Here in the UK solar is next to nonexistent in the depths of winter. That means that we have to have lots of very long term storage or more wind and nukes.

[@warrenknight5373]

@ Battery storage would be the answer to store Green energy during the dry days. Pushing solar to homes at very cheap rates to support the grid would also help

[@stephenbagwell8275]

One problem with PHEVs is the lack of AC chargers. At Rugby Services there are none

[@linuxretrogamer]

I drive a Leaf. Done 300 mile journeys. Not had range anxiety. Charger anxiety is more like it. But when I go distances I’ve a few go to charging points I’ve used before, good distance, comfortable with their use, general charger anxiety gone. Don’t like the idea of carrying around a petrol engine “just in case”. More mechanics, more to go wrong.

[@Gazer75]

Never driven in proper winter conditions I'm guessing. Trust me range anxiety can be very real. The weather is nice and then it turns into a snow storm up on the mountain pass. The temperature plummets and the consumption goes up a lot. I always top up at the nearest charger when going over these passes now. Back when EVs took off here in Norway the crews responsible for running convoys over the mountain in bad weather had to start refusing EVs that didn't have a high SOC. To many idiots ran out of battery up there.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

What you're describing sounds like a series hybrid. Isn't that what the Volt was? As you indicate, a series hybrid has the advantage that it doesn't need a transmission with multiple gears. It has one disadvantage, which is that the ICE engine's power cannot augment the electric motor. But I don't think that's much of a downside. Just take the weight savings from lack of a transmission, and make the electric motor bigger by the amount of weight that you saved. You will also need to augment the electric circuitry, and the battery will need to be bigger to deliver the extra power, but that will give you more range. So I like series hybrids. That is, if you feel you just can't go with a BEV.

[@adrianswindells]

Hi Dave. My Honda jazz hybrid 2021, sounds like it has the system you are talking about.

[@scottchapman518]

If anything I find my EV is more reassuring for how far it will drive, my petrol car couldn't tell me how many miles I had left, my EV does, and it does it accurately. I can't charge at home but don't suffer from range anxiety

[@paulweston1106]

My petrol cars for at least the last 10 years or so before moving to EV have given me an indication as to how many miles I had left in the tank. It wasn't 100% accurate but was based on previous and current consumption very much like the range-meter in my EV.

[@bordersw1239]

Blimey, were you driving a Morris Minor? Haven’t owned a car for years that didn’t give me a range estimate.

[@ziploc2000]

I see two comments that ICE cars now have reasonably accurate range meters. Maybe it's so common now that nobody bothers to mention it normally, but I've never heard of this or seen it even mentioned before. Certainly my 2007 Mazda 3 and 2010 Honda Odyssey didn't have this feature, but if it's been introduced in the last 10 years fair enough. Tesla are supposedly working on batteries that quadruple the charge density, and enable faster charging. Imagine doubling the range on all existing EVs, while halving the battery weight. That'd give my Bolt over 500 miles range, and make it even cheaper to run (currently 2-3 cents a mile) .

[@paulweston1106]

@ziploc2000 the range meter was probably there but hidden behind a menu option. I had a 2006 Honda Civic that told you how many miles left in the tank.

[@ziploc2000]

@@paulweston1106 Neither my 2007 Mazda nor my 2010 Honda had menus,cthey don't have infotainment screens. The only digital readout on the Honda is for the air conditioning. The Mazda didn't even have cruise control and it had wind-up windows.

[@PaulSmith-jr1qe]

Sounds like a vauxhall Ampera they stopped making years ago.

[@silverghini2629]

Dave, self-charging hybrids are no way as large as 10kWh. Nearer to 2 or 3. Most PHEVs are about 13 although the bigger ones can be 20 or 30 kWh.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

The REAL solution to range anxiety is to have wireless charging almost everywhere, so convenient that you hardly even notice that you've charged. We will probably end up with charging pads at least as numerous as traffic lights. It will take time, but I think that's where we must inevitably end up. And then range and charging speed will have much less attention.

[@edwyncorteen1527]

Range anxiety went out with the end of production of the 24kW Leaf, what we do have, and is getting better, but needs fixing, is charger anxiety, is there a queue, do they work? That is only when on a long journey, most of us charge at home, those who cannot need a sensible, affordable way to charge when the car is not being used.

[@tommiko8313]

The problem is public charging infrastructure cost is way too expensive compared with home charging are filling up at a petrol station to a petrol powered or diesel powered car

[@GreatDrok]

Great, more weight to carry around that I'll never use. I've spoken to various people with BMW i3 REXs and they've told me that given the choice they wouldn't have bothered with the REX because they never use it, and the petrol goes off if you don't use it so they keep having to put fresh fuel in even when it isn't needed. Better off just leaving the tank empty.

[@davetakesiton]

That was the conclusion at the end of the video. When offered a range extender at extra cost, most people will suddenly discover they don't actually need one and buy the cheaper version.

[@karlwest437]

I heard that most hybrid drivers never plug them in so end up always driving on petrol anyway, in that case why bother, just get a full EV if you can

[@hadtobe4502]

Range anxiety comes down to being able to re-charge. Ok, it takes a little wait at the charger - unless it's broken, or whoever is before you wants to charge to 100%.

[@Gazer75]

Depends on the car tbh. If its a low range older EV this can be very real. In winter with freezing temps it can be risky in some areas. If the road close and you're stuck sucking power for heating you can run out. My 2020 e-Golf would not get far in -10C or below and snow covered roads. It can maybe do 120-125 miles on a warm summer day, but in the cold I doubt more than 80-90 is realistic. Luckily these days we have chargers everywhere so its rare to go more than 30-40 miles before there is another charger.

[@gonzaloleviatanh]

95% of the time I am fine with the EVs ranges( 3 times at week I drive 60 miles per day), but it school holidays when I suffer from range anxiety. The wife, the kidscand about 1 millions drivers leaving London. 😝

[@paulweston1106]

Coming soon from Chinese EV manufacturers, a wind turbine mounted to the roof of the EV to generate electricity to charge the onboard battery, how about pedals in the rear seats so that your passengers can charge the battery by pedal power. Range extenders aren't new and as I see it come with many of the same issues around servicing and pollution as PHEV. I'm surprised that the Chinese are going this route given how they have embraced EV and seem to have the infrastructure to support EV, I can only assume they are looking more to the export market. I can certainly see how range extenders would be popular in some of their export regions and some of the more emerging markets where charging is likely to be more difficult. Presumably, these sort of range extenders would be banned from 2035 when all new car sales have to be zero emission in any case.

[@albertoporras04]

Adding range is a game of diminishing returns. 200 miles (of real world range) adds a very great deal of utility compared to 100 miles. 300 miles is quite a bit better than 200 miles, 400 miles gives you a little bit more compared to 300, and above that every extra 100 miles of range really adds very little. The truth is that few people really want to drive more than three to four hours before they take a break, and most people stop every two to three hours. This is just basic human physiology. Three hours driving is about 200 miles if your very lucky with traffic conditions etc., four hours gets you about 260-280 miles, again on a good run with no holdups. So modern EVs basically have enough range, and a good enough charging speed, provided the charging network is adequate. Range anxiety is large a product of three things, media FUD and poor trip navigation software in some EVs, and uneven charging network development. The last point is rapidly being fixed (certainly in the UK), the second point is down to consumer education - I've lost count of the number of EV reviews I've seen in the press or online which witter on endlessly about the number of cup holders or the texture of the plastics on the dashboard but give zero assesment of the capability of the trip planning/navigation software in the car! The first point will remain as long as the oil companies can fund their client journos to push that particular myth.

[@henrich4261]

See Lohner-Porsche from year 1900.

[@steve-zschannel2729]

Dave this isn't anything new, the BMW i3 has been available for almost 10 years with a range extender, a 600cc scooter engine driving an electric generator to maintain the battery level which kicks in automatically when the battery gets to a low state of charge. It just so happens I'm taking delivery of one in a couple of months time, in my day to day driving the REx will hardly ever be used, if it doesn't BMW program in an automatic monthly maintenance cycle which runs the engine for a few minutes to check everything is functioning okay. It will be a boon on my holiday road trips in the summer and will stretch out the distance between recharges, shortening my journey times.

[@lyfebehyndbars9729]

I call it “range paranoia”. Because most range concerns are mostly ignorant and irrational.

[@solentbum]

1. The BMW i3 had this idea some 12 years ago , as did the Vauxhall Ampera. 2. The best way to kill Range Anxiety is to stop talking about it. The modern crop of EVs mostly do over 250 miles to a 'fill up'. Looking back at my first six cars only one had a fuel tank that could take it over 300 miles without stopping for petrol. (Morris 1000 Traveller, Humber Hawk, Standard Vanguard, Vauxhall VX4/90, Vauxhall Viva HA, Rover 2000) 3. My current BEV happily carries me over 200 miles in UK midwinter, with heater and air con working. Then I have a combined comfort break/ rapid charge and go on my way (If I need to). I suggest that the Technollogy that will break all anxiety is when charging becomes totally automatic from plates in parking bays, a technology that already exists and works. It just needs 'mandating' (Just as CCS sockets were).

[@rogerphelps9939]

I agree with a lot of that but if you mean plates in parking bays to mean inductive charging please do some research from which you will rapidly conclude that it is very inefficient and far inferior to plugging in.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

@@rogerphelps9939 - wireless charging also has medical considerations with those having pacemakers or other medical devices.

[@solentbum]

@@rogerphelps9939 I already know how inefficient they currently are, I was thinking of two things, one is that so many people are lazy, the other is the scope for improvement. Nissan have been researching the idea of self drive cars moving to such a 'plate' during the vehicles down time, and retuning to their parking place . Of course plugging in is more efficient, I have been doing it for over 10 years but I do have the facility of home charging. What is needed is something to move the 'petrolheads' and timid into a better way of driving.

[@paulweston1106]

Other than the Rover 2000, I'm not sure you'd want to spend 300 miles of travel time in any of those cars without a decent stop.

[@paddylogan13]

No idea why there would be any need for this anywhere in Europe. I recently drove from Cornwall to N Yorkshire in my (relatively slow charging ) Kona. I had one charge which put more than enough charge to get home in the time it took to have a cup of coffee.

[@eddiereed5025]

Hybrid Plug in Hybrid why would you maintenance costs far outweigh any saving you may make

[@JosieEvans-z1h]

Sorry Dave we still don’t have anywhere near enough chargers in N I my nearest Tesla charger is 104 miles away and is only for Tesla cars all local chargers are 7kw

[@oliver90owner]

Tesla are not the only DC charging points in NI? If you charge at home, you are unlikely to need local AC chargers. Need more explanation before I accept your complaint of “too few chargers”

[@trickshotish]

104 miles away that’s not good is it . Cmon Tesla get your finger out . I was looking at a 2nd hand Tesla but didn’t like the reviews on the satnav and no apple play so I bought a new Mg5 trophy . Didn’t realise how much I would like electric cars until I bought one .😂

[@rogerphelps9939]

Tesla carefully cherry picks its charging locations.

[@ziploc2000]

Our charger is a 120V outlet that we used to plug our electric garden tools into. We now plug the car in there and it's charged overnight.

[@oliver90owner]

@@ziploc2000 The current is the limiting factor with AC charging. ‘Granny’ chargers in the UK can safely manage 10A from a 13A socket supply, so 2.2-2.4kW. My ‘cheap rate’ 5 hour period typically increases the car range by about 40-45 miles. The more usual 7kW charging (about 30-32A) increases range by around 140-150 miles - that’s plenty for most of my journeys. Using low kW charging can lose a lot of charging efficiency - as the ‘standing’ losses (connections, cables and the on-board charging units) can easily amount to as much as 250W.

[@markotrieste]

20 minutes of video to tell us about the REX like BMW I3 of 15 years ago?

[@simonoakley5102]

You can charge hybrid s up my i8 can be charged up .. the brake way is stupid cos you dont break nowhere near as much as driving

[@JOHN-g5b8x]

Hi Dave. Great idea. We’ve got a 2015 BMW i3 + REX which is exactly as you describe. Everyone may soon catch up. 🫢

[@mconnah1]

Anything with a petrol engine is an extra complexity we don’t need in most cases.

[@vitspinka1]

Hybrids are an alternative to diesel and turbo petrol. Good economy, simpler to build. The gearbox is very simple, too. And experience shows they indeed last very long. Don’t forget this is 1997 technology.

[@rogerphelps9939]

But they don't do a lot to reduce CO2 emissions.

[@David-bl1bt]

​@@rogerphelps9939 or NOX, particulates, carbon monoxide, aldehydes and many more toxic carcenogens.

[@christopherpayne-j2v]

It is an old system revived ie 2014 bmw i3 rex small petrol engine in boot exactly that small bike engine what goes around comes around

[@gwip0102]

How does this differ from the rex system in the older i3?

[@GruffSillyGoat]

The range extended approach the i3 REx was designed to offer the ability to hop between battery recharge points at a time when they were less common and spaced further apart. The design was compromised as both the battery range and the extended range was low - 72 miles on battery and 130 miles on petrol (less in the US models, 72 miles electric and 78 miles petrol).

[@martincharnley6143]

Why describe “range extenders” as new. The BMWI3 had a Rex version a decade ago.

[@stephenbagwell8275]

10 kWh is the size of a plug in hybrid battery Not all of the energy from braking recharges the battery they still have brake pads like EVs

[@richardfoster6494]

Extra service costs!

[@neilbarber2513]

The Chinese are not the first as Nissan has the e power for the last couple of years in the UK

[@brendanpells912]

Why worry about range anxiety when Ofgem projections are that there's only going be enough grid capacity to do 25-30 miles per day? Why not focus on producing cars limited to 100 mile range, then you can use the same amount of batteries in 3 cars instead of 1, and the cars would be lighter and cheaper.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

Erm, no, there's capacity for future electric cars currently, as they mostly charge off peak and can be demand shifted. The large rollout of heat pumps will eventually cause problems due to the fact they will be used at peak times, and use a lot of energy displacing the gas boilers use currently. Grid will be built out for them in the coming years.

[@brendanpells912]

@Biggest-dh1vr You haven't read the Ofgem EV strategy document then?

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

I have now. 25 miles per day would be 9,000 miles per year, which is what people drive today in any case? Batteries are getting cheaper, under $100 per kWh, so cost is less of an issue. Whilst it might be good to have smaller cars with smaller batteries, I don't think there's much money or demand there yet, or the car makers would be making them. It's last on Tesla's list, for example.

[@brendanpells912]

@Biggest-dh1vr Well, for now, people think about getting an EV to do everything their current ICE can do, rather than thinking about the lifestyle changes they will have to make in the future. But if they think about where the end of the road is leading to, they may decide it's not a road they want to go down.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

@@brendanpells912 Electrifying transport and heating are just the biggest, easiest steps in the journey. What road would they not want to go down?

[@EwanV]

13:00 to get to the point... and its range extenders? 70s train tech as a new idea? I think not. [edit: p.s. how long does petrol last, 6 months? Your punter runs around for a year and a half on battery, does a long journey and the motor kicks in, chokes up on oxidised fuel thats been in the tank too long, and dies.]

[@geoffhemingway3926]

Range extenders are a ridiculous idea. I could understand them when public chargers were few and far between but with the infrastructure we have now, they are obsolete. What's the point in carrying around that heavy generator all the time, not to mention the fuel for it to work, when it will rarely be used if your EV has a decent battery range to start with? It just conflicts with most of the arguments for an EV in the first place! The future is smaller but faster charging batteries so you can do 200 miles, stop and recharge in 5 minutes while you have a pee, then carry on your journey. Case closed.

[@chrisp7839]

If you are correct and us and china adopt these - you can forget any progress on cutting emissions. They will cut the battery down as low as they can, and we’re back to using good ole oil

[@grandadennis]

Is this the same as Nissan e-power cars which have been on sale in the UK for some time?

[@GruffSillyGoat]

No, e-power cars are are form of series-HEV rather than series-PHEV (i.e. range extender/REV/EREV lot's of labels apply). The battery in e-power cars is tiny, similar in size to hybrid cars at around 2kWh. In e-power cars the petrol generator is always running to charge the battery, which in turn drives the wheels via an electric motor. In a series-PHEV the car can run on battery alone, and be charged by plugging it in, the petrol-generator kicks in only when the battery charge runs low. Some of the Chineses EREV have batteries bigger than some BEVs, at 50kWh and are designed to be run on battery for 90% of their time with the occasional long trip using the petrol generator to increase range to 800 miles. However, these EREV tend to be more expensive to buy/maintain than their BEV counterparts.

[@grandadennis]

@GruffSillyGoat Thank you for a clear explanation. Think I'll stay with my simpler and more than adequate BEV.

[@capnkirk5528]

Range anxiety is a rationalization. An excuse. My reason for not owning a Tesla? A "well-used" one is too much risk, and a lightly used one or new does not make financial sense for ME (I only drove 5,000 km last year, or about 3,000 miles). And I'm not as unusual as you might think. I'd LIKE a Tesla, but it just doesn't make sense. If I were still working and commuting 35 miles each way on a daily basis, I'd have an EV. No GAS STATIONS! Cheap. Warmed up first thing in the morning (or cooled off, but the warm is way more important HERE)

[@stephenbagwell8275]

Some PHEVs can do 70 mph on electric only

[@rayjones9231]

The Prius and the qashqai EPower have been out for several monthsJapanese not Chinese

[@PeterScott-j1j]

Longer term I think that the development of hydrogen fuel cells will become the range extender. You simply insert a 2, 3 or 4 kgm pressurised hydrogen cartridge, which generates electricity for the battery and there’s no emissions.

[@mentality-monster]

Lol. No chance.

[@mikejones0967]

Nice idea but I think the physical size and weight of a 4kg hydrogen cylinder will prevent that application. 9.5kg of hydrogen stored at 500Bar requires a tank measuring 490mm diameter and over 3m in length and weighing in at 260kg. Yes, this is 9.5kg of hydrogen but if you half all of the sizes, it's still a large and heavy cylinder to 'simply insert'. I personally don't see hydrogen as a viable solution as a fuel for personal use vehicles.

[@ab-tf5fl]

Filling up the trunk of a car with gas containers is not a range anxiety solution for a gas car that a normal person would be willing to live with, so doing the same with hydrogen isn't either. Lifting several 2/3/4 kg hydrogen containers in and out of the trunk is a lot of effort, which many people with limited arm strength can't do. Not to mention that these containers would have to be huge, as the volumetric density of hydrogen is poor, so a non-trivial amount of driving range would fill up the entire trunk, leaving no room for suitcases.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Are you nuts? Please research the problems of hydrogen vehicles. The whole fuel tank system of such a vehicle only holds a few kg so the idea of inserting a hydrogen cartridge is total fantasy.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

The canister system Toyota patented a few years ago and it's marketing department splashed was 400mm tall / 200mm wide and weighed 5kg but only carried 100g of hydrogen, enough for 20 to 30 miles max. The design eat into the cargo space both for the canister port and as Toyota suggested to carry extra spare cannisters. The emissions in hydrogen, what with less than 1% generated by 'green' methods, is present but is indirect. Further, hydrogen being a consumable resource is a perpetual emission source for the foreseable future.

[@peterhowson-pf5vo]

AT LAST! Someone who actually recognises that current EVs don’t work for some people, such as caravan owners. More importantly, this could be a game changer for commercial uses eg. vans and pickup trucks that need to carry or tow heavy loads. I’ve been banging my head against a brick wall with you lot, telling me it’s a niche issue. No it isn’t. There are half a million caravans and millions of vans out there ploughing the length and breadth of the motorway network that simply could do so as an standard EV. The range fully loaded would be pitiful. This range extender idea could be the solution. My only question at this point is would it be allowable under the uk zero emissions mandate?

[@Gazer75]

Some EVs have the range to pull a caravan just fine. Problem is the price... Most are MB EQS, BMW, Audi and Tesla. Cars that cost 60-130k GBP. Cheapest that can do over 300 miles (not towing) is probably the Ioniq 6 starting at 47k and then the BMW i4 starting at 60k.

[@peterhowson-pf5vo]

@@Gazer75The range towing a caravan is typically half your normal range. I saw a road test using the I5 and it managed 1.44 miles per KWh and that was on the flat. Imagine towing on some of those motorway hills on the way to Cornwall. Charging whilst towing is also a nightmare that means unhooking before finding a public charger, with fingers crossed it’s still there when you finish charging. A range extender in these situations would be ideal to get you where you need to get, then charge at the campsite. Commercial towing is a whole different kettle of fish. Only a cybertruck would handle the weights involved and they’re completely impractical on every level.

[@Gazer75]

@@peterhowson-pf5vo If you can get 125-150 miles while towing its not to bad. Obviously not close to a fossil, but can work. Plenty of electric trucks in Norway now and truck chargers keep popping up.

[@snodgee]

Firstly it looks like America will ban Chinese EV’s , also state farms insurance group are taking out their EV chargers at all there underground charging stations and the charging stations which are close to buildings because they said they can’t mitigate the dangers of charging however they will put in chargers away from all buildings , I want a car that can do what my present car can do which is driving 600 to 650 miles and still have at least 200 to 250 miles left

[@keithdenton8386]

This has been around for a while. Now that China has them you are back in your coolie hat and saying how great they are.

[@davetakesiton]

Yes Keith, fully aware, but they never caught on, did they? The Chinese might make them a success this time, but the video ended by saying that when faced with paying extra for the range extender, most buyers will suddenly decide they don't actually need one and choose the pure EV. Job done! Thank you China!

[@steve_is_my_name]

Think of it like this... 25 mins of charging for every 3.5 hours of driving. So if you are driving 500 miles, start with an 80% charge, stop mid way for, coffee, cake, and a pee (you car is charging whilst parked), now drive the rest of the way. Simple. 😊

[@sargfowler9603]

Toyota use a 1.3kwh battery typically on their hybrid vehicles. Not 10kwh. Then there's mild hybrids which are typically 48v and around 250wh. Toyota Hybrids must be better cos all the taxi drivers love them! PHEVs usually have a 10-20kwh battery which will go 30-60 miles. Most are actually quite quick and easily do motorway speeds, not slow at all. PHEVs also have 3 modes, EV only, hybrid and performance. Most will allow you to charge the battery or maintain a certain level of charge. I'm aware that most people don't charge their PHEV, but that's an issue with the owner, not the car. They probably got it to save on paying tax for their company car. PHEV sales are increasing, not dropping! 36% in the last year in fact! PHEV owners don't use public charge because they are slow and the price is typically twice that of petrol. Your knowledge of hybrids is quite poor. I suggest you do a bit of research!

[@David-bl1bt]

I've had literally over a hundred cars in my lifetime, I used to buy them like sweets. I cannot recall a single car that I bought with a consideration of the range....not one! I bought them for the colour, design, technology and mainly just because I liked it, wanted one, I could afford it so I bought it, NEVER did I buy one because of the range.... conversely I never didn't buy one because of range either. Range anxiety is a smokescreen invented by ICE drivers because they are averse to change and frightened of moving forward with evolution. Im sure that all these range anxious ICE drivers dont even consider their range on a day to day basis....ever!.... and equally I would bet that they didnt give range a thought when they bought their ICE car either.

[@rayjones9231]

The Prius and the qashqai have been out for several monthsJapanese not Chinese

[@leswhitehouse]

Sorry Dave, you are not correct. You aren't always using the petrol engine when driving along in a hybrid. Once up to cruising speed you can feather the accelerator to maintain speed and do 65 - 70 mph on battery alone. My Toyota hybrid can easily do more than 70mpg which is much more economical (and smoother) than a petrol car

[@Gazer75]

As long as there is some energy left in the battery. It does help if you're driving down a hill as the car will normally shut of the engine and run on the motor due to low load.

[@tonykelpie]

Almost everyone can granny charge a PHev at home

[@Gazer75]

If you've got a driveway. Many places in the UK have street parking only. Quite common in the cities as well. In Norway some cities now have Type 2 AC outlets available on the street and some are dedicated to people with a parking permit. Most newer apartment complexes also have a basement garage with a load balanced charging system.

[@tonykelpie]

@ Yes. Thank you. There are a variety of solutions to the ‘no driveway’ problem, most of which are not being used in the UK at present.

[@capnkirk5528]

So ... basically, a BMW i3 except: - with a proper sized generator to actually DO something - a proper-sized battery to actually GO somewhere - decent styling to actually LOOK good So ... a BMW i3 done by someone who actually WANTS IT TO SUCCEED! (I must admit that I will enjoy great schadenfreude from BMW's eventual bankruptcy). Did BMW DELIBERATELY "cripple" the i3 to SLOW DOWN EV uptake? Really? Ya think? Although SOME of the blame goes to the forward-thinking of CARB in terms of "How are the automakers going to try to get around the new regulations?". It's sad that the German and American automakers are so "socially untrustworthy" that, if you don't legislate that they can't POISON people (leaded gas, for example) they would happily and KNOWINGLY do so. And we think we can solve the climate crisis working with executives whose thought processes work that way?

[@NorthernSoulieKTF]

Your explanation of hybrid vehicles is not entirely accurate. Yes my full hybrid charges the battery when I brake but also by the petrol engine. It is not limited to 30-40 mph, I have driven in pure electric at motorway speed limits. When the ICE kicks in it recharges the battery on the motorway and it is not unusual for it to revert to pure electric. Around town I would say 80% of my driving is pure electric. I currently average 57.8 mpg. One of the best decisions I made was moving from an EV to a full hybrid. One of the worst decisions I made was moving from an ICE to pure EV and a huge financial loss when I sold it after six months.

[@Gazer75]

What PHEV is this? Most PHEVs will just enter into a battery hold mode when its low. Only charging going down a hill steep enough to regen. You have to actively choose to have the petrol engine charge the battery.

[@davetakesiton]

Charging the battery while driving at motorway speeds? This is hammering your mpg from the ICE. Pointless to burn more petrol to get "free" electricity. when an ICE is about 25% efficient.

[@NorthernSoulieKTF]

@@Gazer75 As I stated it is full hybrid, not PHEV. But look at Petrol aped review of the 300bhp Rafale, that is a PHEV.

[@NorthernSoulieKTF]

@@davetakesiton Hammering my mpg! I am happy with average of 57.8 mpg over the 11,000 miles I have done since new. You know as well as I do maintaining 70 mph does not create stress on the ICE, the real effort the engine exerts is getting there. A minuscule percentage of your total time on the motorway. And I don’t have to actively choose to have the petrol engine charge the battery, this is all done by hybrid management system. As I said in my original comment, your explanation of hybrid vehicles is not entirely accurate. Please don’t attempt to educate others on a subject where your own knowledge is inadequate. Sorry to be so blunt.

[@Gazer75]

@@NorthernSoulieKTF Never heard the term full hybrid tbh. Its HEV (hybrid) and PHEV "plug-in" hybrid. So I thought a full hybrid would be plug-in. I don't really care for the hybrids that can't charge. Seem like a stupid gimmick that don't really reduce consumption due to extra weight. They are also more complex so if you're really doing a hybrid why not one you can plug in to actually save on emissions and fuel cost.

[@jsanders100]

Just must get rid of these apps. You need to pull up, plug in and swipe your card. Is it too much to ask?

[@paulweston1106]

The 'Public Charge Point Regulations 2023' is intended to do just that. It's in effect for new chargers now and for existing chargers from 24th November 2024.

[@djtaylorutube]

Tesla simplifies that to pull up, plug in. It doesn't have to be exclusive to Tesla, ISO15118 exists but the fragmentation between charge point providers and vehicle manufacturers just make it someone else's problem. If you want simplicity, Tesla has that already.

[@johngatt5855]

Even more options and more confusion/misunderstanding! You mean well Dave but many drivers especially the elderly find this too confusing and stick with what they have known/driven for50 years plus , that is an internal combustion engine that will do 100,000 miles without problems. Downside is pollution ,which is very important, but are you really going to lose sleep over that when you are 70 plus and driving 3,000 miles a year ?

[@crm114.]

If you can charge at home, an EV is a no-brainer. Much cheaper to run, simpler to maintain and good for 200,000+ miles.

[@Gazer75]

@@crm114. Show me an EV below 35k that can do 200 miles while towing 1500kg. Most EVs in that price range can't do more than 225 miles without towing anything. And that's 100 to 0% which is unrealistic. My dad got a Golf GTE for this reason as the only option capable of towing 1500kg back then was a Model X which is more than twice the price.

[@crm114.]

@@Gazer75. I would argue that people who want to tow that sort of load in a regular basis are a small minority. A 200 mile range EV would be more than adequate for someone travelling 3000 miles a year. That’s an average of

[@Gazer75]

@@crm114. No idea how common towing is in the UK, but here in Norway I'm sure well over half of car owners have towed at some point. Lots of caravans on the road in the summer here. Obviously not everyone need more than 1000kg towing capacity as transporting that garden garbage would only require a tiny 750kg trailer or something. My dad used to transport firewood a couple of times a year and that would be to heavy for a 750kg trailer.

[@robinbennett5994]

So what's to stop the same ignorant hybrid drivers from never charging a new series hybrid, and using petrol all the time instead of charging?

[@David-bl1bt]

thats exactly what they do...their employers fund their fuel so why would they want to bother to charge at home?

[@moragkerr9577]

What a faff. I predict this is not going to catch on. Might have done five years ago, but EVs are capable enough that carting an ICE around all the time (and getting it serviced and all the drawbacks of ICE) and - and this is the real guffaw moment - having to charge AND visit a petrol pump when you're on a long trip, is going to have a very limited appeal. For about ten minutes.