I'm Going To SKIP My Brother's Wedding After He Excluded Certain Family Members r/Relationships

[@smiles4nyles281]

At this point we need a "Not another Mark" drinking game

[@kaykay8855]

*Brings out shot glasses* Take a shot!

[@elizabethescalante8114]

Man, I feel bad for Waffle Mark here!! 😂😂 I bet if he took part in that game, his brain cells would be all "Are we in Gary Bucey's head?"

[@vegaskullkid4503]

😂, that’d be a recipe for Waffle Mark to get plastered

[@babybookworm003]

Not a drinking game waffle eating game. Every time he says not another mark you eat a waffle

[@elizabethescalante8114]

@@babybookworm003 But then we might explode like that bunny on Ralph Breaks The Internet! 🤣🤣🤣

[@yoramshimoni3579]

I am sooooo against this stupid "my wedding.". when it is all funded by others. This is a sign of a verry rotten apple

[@Kalossupremacy3356]

I grew up in the west (currently here since birth), it’s odd to me at times how people aren’t as close to their siblings as I typically expect. Tackle hugs are only in common for some siblings near me

[@tartlynerdy]

Agreed. I'm sick of the disrespect and the entitlement of people who get through life depending on the hand outs and generosity of others.

[@ScurvyRascal]

Story 1 NOT THE A HOLE! If the brother doesn't want tradition, he can pay for it himself.

[@icecreamnoodles3742]

This

[@LittleMaitea]

I mean it first sounded like YTA But tone doesn’t translate well into text And Marc forbidding his bride to invite who she to wants, to save money, even tho he absolutely contributes nothing … … I have to ask myself how he is behaving generally

[@brenscott5416]

Fucking exactly. Reddit doesn't give good advice for people who aren't in the USA. Fucking usless in fact

[@samiulhuda4001]

@@LittleMaiteadidnt sound like yta at first either. its ops choice to not go and support him when ops family is left out. why is he entitled to ops support?

[@crem-crem4070]

Story 1: Reddit is not the place to go with something so culturally specific, it’s a mostly western website with very individualistic mindsets. Which in some situations is fine but in others, like this, is entirely unhelpful.

[@colleens1107]

Word, I was all UHHH NO if the parents are giving money they shouldn’t be excluded while the other side is being catered to. Also, I too was all confused as to why they thought they would be included until I learned that in their culture it’s the grooms family. That was VERY important contextually

[@darlingcharming5594]

This is my exact thought. The OP should have found a subreddit where people from their culture frequent ir ysed a different forum. Reddit is helpful but for very specific issues. Cultural nuances like this won't be understood by the demographic and you won't get legitimate advice. The OP did themselves a disservice there

[@mandalorianhunter1]

​@@darlingcharming5594even me from the USA was on the OP's side, Reddit are such hypocrites when it comes to certain stories

[@bhutehole]

cause reddit is very very racist.

[@shadowkissed2370]

@@mandalorianhunter1 This is so true, I remember a story where a brother was not being included in the wedding even though the parents were paying for the wedding and reddit full out raged about it.

[@darkmask5933]

I will say, in Story 1, it feels like this is very much not a Western wedding, but all the comments are coming from people who are more familiar with a Western wedding.

[@19nmiller1]

I completely agree, but I also think that even from a Western wedding perspective, OP still would have the right to be upset. I'm from the US and I know I'd be hurt if my brother excluded me from his wedding party.

[@TheMimiSard]

It could be some flavour of European too, and beyond the sibling inclusion thing could be much like what is seen in countries like America, Britain, amd Aus/NZ.

[@paulastiles5507]

Even in a Western setting, the brother would be considered an ungrateful mooch.

[@RedditCauseTherapyIsExpensive]

Idk the culture and traditions thing reads Europe or Asia. I don't know any anyone that involves the grooms side in the wedding planning or picking out the dress unless the bride is super close to them. The 4 hours drive several states away threw me off because in the US for the most part 4 hours drive and you're still in the same state in most states in the south especially.

[@availanila]

​@@RedditCauseTherapyIsExpensiveit felt like a Nigerian thing to me. And yes, by African culture, he was unequivocally wrong. In fact, I know a guy that acted like this and he's a narcissist that eventually wound up being abusive to his wife too. If I'm marrying a guy treating family like this I'd be very wary.

[@ettinakitten5047]

Story 1: Sure, it's his wedding, his choice, but that doesn't mean others can't be hurt and decide to boycott the wedding. It's an invitation, not a summons.

[@gabrielle4152]

YES!!! You expressed what I also thought in a nice, concise way, thank you lol. Like, he can decide to exclude people, but she also can decide to not go. If he's free to make his own decisions, so is she. That's why I don't get the AH judgement from people who most likely are Western/individualistic/...

[@risingrat5491]

Story 1: the brother is a user. As family, they should drop him. He doesn’t want to follow traditions, but wants their benefits.. what a disgrace

[@judelbugsrutter6727]

Yep got one or two like that in our family... What a tosser.

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #1: While I agree that it's his choice, not only is he openly insulting his family according to their shared culture, he also is openly insulting his parents in general. They paid for over half the wedding, while his in-laws paid for the rest. If he didn't want family involvement, he shouldn't have taken so much money from them, especially since he could have paid for it himself. He's a lying deadbeat and OP is NTA. Not even sure what planet Redditor antizana is on. If I were the parents, I'd just bail right now and let him flounder. He wants all the choice and favor the in-laws? He and the in-laws can pay for the wedding.

[@owl7072]

"What's wrong with being a guest?" The fact that both families are helping pay but one is being disregarded in favor of the other one

[@HeoBaby24]

just because you're born into a culture doesn't mean you have to follow it

[@dimsufferer9951]

@@owl7072both families are paying 75/25 but the family that’s paying 75 are being treated as trash

[@paulastiles5507]

@@HeoBaby24 Yet, he's fine enough with family and his culture to let his mother pay for over half of his wedding. He doesn't get to have it both ways.

[@HeoBaby24]

@@paulastiles5507 how is it a cultural to pay for your child wedding? isn't that a norm? she choosing to pay and so are the in-laws. he doesn't have to have guest at his wedding. yah maybe he shouldn't taken tyeb money given to him by his mother. but at the same time it's still his wedding

[@Ashbrash1998]

Story 1: I think what really makes the brother the AH is that he isnt even planning the wedding, Carol his mother is. Who is soing it all by herself, managing what Mark wants while also tryinf to keep it all afloat. I would understand if maybe he wanted to be independent wih the wedding or do it his way. But the point is that he isn'y doing anything at all and let other people plan and pay for it.

[@wildblue0]

Last story: OP knows where he's going to live now. She can pack up his stuff and have it delivered to the apartment before he gets back.

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #2: Not only was he cheating, but he was embezzling money from his company? He is *so* screwed. I wouldn't bother contacting the AP in any way. It's extra drama and she doesn't deserve that, both for good and ill. At absolute best, she thought he was going through a messy divorce and chose to ignore the red flags. Let her keep him.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

I still have some empathy for the girlfriend. She got fooled like the OP did. I mean, he did manage to cover it up well enough that he didn't get caught for 4 months. The OP only learned that the affair partner existed because the apartment sent him a message. That doesn't mean he's good at hiding anything, I'm just saying it's possible to miss the signs. I doubt this was the first time he did something like that too considering he always had a habit of immediately deleting everything off his phone. They were together for 4 months and he already rented an apartment with her. With embezzeled money, but still! How did he manage to hide everything for so long if he was that sloppy at it?

[@robertx8020]

@@untitled-gv3qp How was he sloppy? He gave his private mailaddress, it was just bad luck that mail came and OP saw it .. Not that he didn't deserve it btw ,,just saying he was not THAT sloppy

[@untitled-gv3qp]

@@robertx8020 The apartment was minutes away from their house and he gave her his real full name. And apparently he was using his real name around the place too since the guy the OP and her friend talked to knew who it was. Why would he even put his name on anything to begin with if he's trying to hide it? That's not even getting into how foolish it is to do that with embezzled funds. And constantly deleting stuff off your phone is incredibly suspicious. The OP should've realized he was hiding something way sooner. Why would he even have anything about his mistresses apartment tied to his other home? To an email his wife has access to? The dude isn't just a cheater, he's a sloppy one at that.

[@kdhebskh]

No symphaty for the mistress. Going through messy divorce or not, the mistress and any women should stay away from married man. That is basic moral. Until the scum bag is legally divorce.

[@salomerodriguez5145]

Even in the case that the AP wasn't aware of the embezzlement, who lets a partner of four months pay for your home? That screams sugar baby.

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

Story 2: I remember this story. I still think he’s trickle truthing OP as moving into an apartment with his affair partner after only 4 months and using company funds for said apartment is one hell of a risk.

[@OZARKMOON1960]

Right? It's been a hot minute since this first came out and I'm wondering why there is no follow up about him getting in trouble for using company funds to bankroll his mistress.

[@anahkit]

@@OZARKMOON1960 Didn't OP said he owned his company? Not sure if it'll matter if he's the sole boss / owner.

[@rubymeaddle]

That's literally embezzlement

[@lostshadows768]

​@@OZARKMOON1960 As much as we want the juicy details, it's understandable that people who are going through a painful situation won't necessarily want to come back and share them. Also, discussing details publicly may cause issues during legal proceedings.

[@robertx8020]

@@lostshadows768 Good point ..but then again, ,ost ppl only want to read the drama and enjoy it and a lot of them don't care about what happens to the OP

[@Mesa4u2nv]

His/Her wedding His/Her choice is only valid when yhe couple is paying for everything themselves. If they want the tradition of family supporting the nuptials, then it is selfish of them to go against tradition to exclude your family for no good reason. There's plenty of nontrad wedding experiences that do not include asking your family for money like eloping or courthouse ceremonies

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

Story 1. I am not going to commenton the money issues. But yes, normally all wedding decisions and choices are up to the bride and groom. However, I understand what OP means, because my culture is the same. When a sibling is getting married it is expected, no require that ALL siblings from both the bride and groom side hold significant roles in the wedding. They don't necessarily have to be part of the bridal party itself, but they should have some important role in the wedding. To leave a sibling out is to say, "You are dead to me and not my sibling." Yes, I know that seems harsh, but please remember that every culture has its own practices, and while some might not agree with it, we should be respectful of the practices of other cultures.

[@HeoBaby24]

no

[@thatjeff7550]

I have issue with the money as well. Not only is brother telling everyone "you're dead to me" with his actions, he essentially told his mother he needed money for the wedding and then didn't spend a dime on it if I understood what OP said in her update. He's a liar and a thief.

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

​@@HeoBaby24?

[@jasmineflower1988]

​@@Mama_Bear_of_3that "no" answer is a classic troll.

[@zerobolt9506]

I'm from the use so I have a different perspective from other countries & whatnot, however as soon as I heard it was a different culture & her what OP said I was on her side, if that's how it's done for them then we in the US have no right to tell them it's wrong

[@vegaskullkid4503]

Story 1: Wow, this brother’s a greedy dirtbag. Scratch that he’s just a dick in general. Like dude is mooching money off of everyone he’s close to yet excludes them from everything. I’m an American and that just sounds completely wrong to do so I don’t understand how OP was voted an asshole for her reasonable reaction to this. Story 2: I have heard this story before and I still don’t understand how someone can do this. Not just because they’re hurting two families by being this scummy but also it sounds exhausting to do stuff like this. Why cheat in the first place but also why have a second family?! Are you THAT bored with life that you’re seeking to get another family for kicks? I just don’t understand!

[@mandalorianhunter1]

It's Reddit the biggest hypocrites out there, they don't know how to make up their minds

[@LilFeralGangrel]

For story 2: i think it's about power. I think he liked being able to pull the wool over his wife's eyes, maintain that deception. Obviously there's really no way to know but I've heard similar stories and that's the vibe i get from them.

[@Xokoy]

Story 1: It's not about him being a dick. He is, but the reasons why he's a dick aren't really relevant to the story. The story boils down to "my brother didn't want my siblings at his wedding party, so we're trying to change that through ultimatums" and then after the update gets the added layer of "my mum is paying for it, therefore, she should get a say as to how the wedding works". Giving money, as the comment pointed out, in exchange for the expectation that you get a say in the wedding and how it's done is basically a loanshark way to do things. The bottom line is, it's hard to really look at that story and not see OP and her family being entitled about making the brother's wedding the way that they want it, that's why they're the AH, even though the brother is a moocher. In most stories, you're right, that would make the brother an AH, but in this case, that's not actually relevant to the AITA judgement, it's just something that OP added on about her brother pretty much to paint her brother in the worst possible light, which is not something that someone who doesn't know on some level that they're the AH would bother doing.

[@GMAMEC]

We are looking at this from American eyes. It might be the same as a bride asking a neighbor to be the flower girl instead of the bride asking her own daughter (with both girls being the same age and well mannered). I really would like to know the cultural significance.

[@lalvarez5151]

The thing is they are using money to control him because "culture " so in their culture their side takes Over the whole wedding? What about the bride? The Op just sounds entitled as heck

[@Tammohawk1]

There is only one reason for a spouse to have an apartment that their spouse does not know about. Cheating. Next he will cheat on his girlfriend.

[@GallifreyanOrphan]

For those kind of guys, there's a new girl turning 18 everyday that he's willing to hand his kids' college funds over to. He might not cheat on her, but she'll be replaced.

[@bridgitgilmore]

Yup, if he'll cheat with ya he'll cheat on ya.

[@19nmiller1]

I'm gonna be honest, I disagree with OP being the AH in the first story. Purposely excluding certain siblings definitely sends a message of animosity. Maybe OP overreacted by saying they'd not attend, but I definitely think they have the right to be upset by their siblings being disregarded by their other sibling. I know everyone is saying "well *I* wouldn't be upset if that happened to me!!" but I don't buy it. Yes, the wedding is primarily about the couple, but it's also a celebration including your friends and family. To me, it's pretty disrespectful to ice your siblings out like that, but to each their own.

[@dimsufferer9951]

Imo, it’s completely understandable that OP didn’t want to go. They were put in the bridal party but weren’t involved in any of the bridal party activities. It seems to me that Mark is intentionally spitting in his family’s faces and only want to use brother and OP to look good to extended family

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

​@@dimsufferer9951 Yeah. That was what I couldn't get pass. Mark using his family.

[@vanzy01]

Opie's brother is a leech who's just using the fam for money and that the parents fight not hers. Op need to realize that the brother is not close to to the fam at all and just let him go.

[@chrisa.k.1531]

I wonder if the fiance comes from money and he wants to make good with the in laws for a slice of that fortune. He’ll disappear from his family after the wedding and chances are he’ll only resurface when he need Money.

[@ineedhoez]

There's like 10 damn siblings though. Your bridal party should be the people that you're closest to. That might not be your family.

[@FriedaMMartin]

I finally landed a job interview! I’m so excited! Can’t wait to nail this thing!

[@carolroberts4614]

That's great! Best of luck!

[@Jessidafennecfox]

Congratulations 🎊

[@taylorslade961]

Good luck!

[@paulagoeringer9466]

🎉 best wishes. I hope it's a job you enjoy. ✨

[@ghost-husband]

congrats!!

[@Gaawachan]

I am completely confused by the reddit responses to Story 1. I would never treat my family like that, and it has nothing to do with tradition. He's giving the inlaws everything, then making his family pay for it even as he flips them the bird. What a jerk.

[@ChristopherClyde12]

Fascinating video, Let's stop taking relationship and family for granted. I have battled depression since my wife left me. I have tried all I can to make her see that I love her with everything I am made of but she has insisted on leaving. This has made me so empty, and I do not know what to do. I can barely function properly at work. I am frustrated and miserable. I really miss her.

[@ChristopherClyde12]

I'm keen on meeting the counsellor you're talking about. What steps should I take?

[@ChristopherClyde12]

Thank you for this information. I have just looked her up on Google. impressive.

[@Gamergal_Val92]

Each time I see the name Mark in a story, it's like oh dearie me what has Mark done now?

[@TheMimiSard]

For me, it is "How upset is Mark (our narrator) going to be?".

[@carolroberts4614]

Mark gets to be the bad guy, and I get to be the good guy for once!

[@ScooterBond1970]

Our boy needs a sound board for stories like this, maybe one that says "oh dearie me, not Mark again!" Or maybe a big "sitcom" gasp. 😅

[@shebakoby]

"My brother, *Mark* " I can hear the 'oh dear' from here from Mark Narrations lol

[@hi_stranger9156]

Story 2: He put his girlfriend up in an apartment 15 minutes away from the home he shares with OP? Is he purposefully want to get caught having an affair?

[@ImaNerdANDaGeek]

That's story 2

[@hi_stranger9156]

​@@ImaNerdANDaGeek oh right my bad

[@BruinPhD2009]

I'm amazed he was either too lazy, too arrogant, or too stupid to USE A DIFFERENT NAME. 😅

[@loiracitr]

Sometimes the cheater wants their spouse to find out because they are too spineless to just break up

[@Gomeshiro]

@@loiracitr tbh she would never find out without the circumstances lined up, OP was using his iPad he left home and the tip off was a maintenance email the stars aligned for him to get caught

[@SkyEcho751]

Story 1+Update: NTA and I have no clue what some of these people are smoking. The dude is literally not footing the bill at all, none of his money is going into this, so why does he get final say? Everybody says stuff like "My body my choice" or "You don't owe them any money" so why are they so backwards now? EVERYTHING comes with conditions, and in this case, the conditions for the family money is to invite friends and family. Like for example 'Love' should never be given unconditionally, because that usually results in people who are totally passive to what their partner/child/parent/whoever does. Doesn't matter if they are abusive, if they cheat, if they commit crimes, they will keep loving and doing whatever is asked. But we'd call those people delusional for continuing to love.

[@truthseeker9249]

Even unconditional love has a FEW conditions. Obviously you can not stab someone in the back in any way whether it's cheating, stealing, outright making it clear to a person that you don't care about them (this story being a good example of that), or any form of ab*se, and expect that person to still love you.

[@miminana-hd6nf]

sounds like Mark found the post. Guess what, if Carol is paying for the majority of the wedding she DOES have a say in it. If Mark does not want her to have any input he needs to fund his own wedding. Mark sounds like a piece of work. I pity his fiancee.

[@miminana-hd6nf]

yup, Mark found the post. The family need to cut mark out after this.

[@JMac7395]

STORY 1: other than him being a user, it sounds like the brother doesn't really like his family. The family isn't as close as OP believes they are

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@JudeDragon158]

Literally like willing to bet op’s family had money but are “so close” aside from the one bc they use it as an excuse to get money from the parents too; just more socially polite lmao

[@dave19328]

I mean the brother hasn't given any valid reason other than seeing someone else doing it. And to me, that's a stupid reason.

[@lewisqb12]

@@dave19328he needs to?? Why? Entitled much?😊

[@lavarelease2928]

Yes and at the same time OP really expects all 7 siblings to be in the wedding party? That's a bit much, what about friends of the bride and groom?

[@caridadchang7895]

Story 1: the brother not being as close to his family as OP thought wouldnt be a problem if he wasnt constantly using their money for the wedding he doesnt want them to go to; while family should ask for their money back. Story 2: least shocking update ever, I hope his gf leaves him too.

[@loiracitr]

The family is invited to the wedding. The issue is that only some of them are being groomsmen and bridesmaids

[@madambutterfly1997]

Culture is a very slippery slope. Cuz we've seen examples of people who lack basic understanding of boundaries, or misogyny, was generally disrespecting individuals who married into the family, all because culture demands it

[@jodieg6318]

Also kind of hard to comment on it when there's no other context outside of "its our culture"

[@LittleMaitea]

Yeah the in-laws of my sister were shocked and accused me of being misogynistic and old-fashioned because I let my father give me away Just for your info: Neither me nor my husband nor my father saw it as me being a possession handed over but a plead from a parent to now take care of their child It was partly because I love my dad and partly to prove my ableist grandfather wrong. My dad is disabled since birth and grandfather was convicted he would never marry, he would never have kids and would never be able to walk one of his daughters down the aisle My parents are still married for almost 35 year, we are 4 children, and he walked me down the aisle We all had tears in in our eyes when he gave my hands into my husbands - my favourite wedding picture

[@MsTemptation]

The last story: It’s not OP’s job to inform the side chick about anything because the side chick tends to know more than the wife. Op needs to close out any joint accounts they have and her lawyer is going to check the husband’s financials. Since her husband has been using company funds, op really needs to distance herself and her finances from his. She’s lucky that the mistake happened when it did because it almost feels like fate was working its magic. Op was meant to find out about her cheating and it’s nice to know that his family is just as disgusted with her husband as she is.

[@shells500tutubo]

Story is old, but if I were Op I would immediately file for divorce and request any spousal support/alimony be given as a lump sum. After the divorce is final, THEN alert the IRS and whatever other agencies necessary of her EX husband's shady business practices. Maybe even wait until he marries his girlfriend so SHE is listed as his wife.

[@dianebraberry317]

Story 1: What is with the Reddit community. Like literally saying “It’s his wedding and his day so he should invite and do whatever the f he wants”. Sure, if he was paying for the entire wedding himself. But nope, mummy is the one who is paying for the wedding so she has a slight, SLIGHT say in the wedding. Plus he mooched off his siblings for years including his parents and the thanks he gives them is basically they are not in the wedding. Yes they are the wedding but you are basically saying your money help was nothing to me. Nothing more than a slap in the face. He is the TA for mooching off your family and being an arse. You and your family are the TA for enabling him for so long and should have put a stop to it a long time ago

[@dianasmith8248]

Story one: NTA, so her selfish POS of a brother had no problem taking money for the wedding, but thinks it is ok not to invite everyone. Yeah screw him and the parents need to get the money back from him and they all need to boycott the wedding.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

Yeah. The moment I realized that he was leeching off his family and not lifting a finger to organize the wedding as well as giving his family the cold shoulder, I got mad. That's not cool. 😡 Even if it's his wedding, he has no right to treat his own family like dirt, not after all they've done for him.

[@dianasmith8248]

@@PrincessQ-fj9lyExactly OP and the rest of her family just need to realize that Mark is not a good family member, and she needs to cancel everything even if she looses money and let her ungrateful leech of a son figure it out.

[@vegaskullkid4503]

That’s what got me too. This guy is mooching off of his family and expecting them to follow his selfishness but OP’s an Ahole for pointing it out and not wanting to participate in something she knows is excluding her family who’s bankrolling the entire thing? It makes no sense to me

[@zerobolt9506]

​@vegaskullkid4503 🤷 it's how reddit is nowadays unfortunately

[@GrumpyOldFart2]

@@dianasmith8248Just a note. OP can’t cancel anything. She’s Mark’s SISTER. It’s the mom, Carol, who is paying up the wazoo.

[@LoveSasukeKai]

Story 1: One detail I got hung up on is that the bride (10:06) ALSO wanted the siblings in the wedding party. This, on top of Mark lying about what he's paid for, going back on his word and having his mum plan the wedding, makes me think he isn't honest with his fianceé either. Wouldn't surprise me if he claimed to pay for stuff his parents are. There's a clear bias to looking good for his in-laws.

[@christinesinclair6938]

S1: The YTA judgements are bizarre to me. Bro is being groomzilla. S2: "she thought we were going through a divorce." Well, they ought to be now!

[@MimosaRose]

Story 2- ahh the “I thought he was going through a divorce “ argument. Don’t “date” them until the divorce is finalized.

[@hodgeelmwood8677]

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are defending "Mark" in the first story with "it's his wedding!" but he not only lied about several things, he isn't paying for ANYTHING. If he can't afford to pay a cent toward his own wedding, he shouldn't be getting married, or he should just do a quick civil ceremony without a huge fancy reception.

[@dave19328]

Right? Not only that, but all his in laws are invited. What a rat!

[@malcolmholder3149]

It is true that it is His wedding BUT he should therefore pay not expect others to pay. Remember the Golden Rule "He who pays the Piper Calls the Tune"

[@habituallearner7680]

S1: ESH. Mark is a user who wants to have his wedding cake and eat it too but OP holds culture up as a justification without saying which culture, then gets her back up like many an AITA Redditor who expected instant unquestioning validation for what seems to be extremely controlling and entitled behavior (absent specifying a culture that would explain it.) Her update sounds suspiciously like made up details to try to garner support. Of course Mark is an AH too as a lifelong leech. The solution is that it's indeed his and Olive's wedding - so they can pay for it and have it their way.

[@MimosaRose]

Story 1- is incredibly sticky. The culture aspect isn’t clear. I found myself wondering if the bride was of a different background. Although the brother sucks for all of his lies and the mom should have more say on some aspects of his wedding. It is his wedding and he isn’t obligated to have all of his siblings a part of the wedding party and who is invited.

[@Lillypop93]

I went to multiple sites and multiple search engines and was not able to find a single example where it said a certain culture or religion relied on the man to plan the ceremony I'm wondering how much of this culture is made up

[@Jamlf]

@@Lillypop93 But I doubt its China and Hong Kong based on how many children is in the family. Unless they live in the another Country.

[@benjiro8793]

@@Jamlf Possible Expats? A lot of Chinese migrated to different continents but still maintained a strict family tradition. But in Chinese culture, the bridle money is something that comes up and there was no mention of that (what is odd, because if the brother has no money, that does not fly in Asian culture). What again makes me think not Chinese/Asian. There is also the whole man organizes the wedding? Where? Arabic culture maybe, even their i doubt it? If OP said the grooms family organizes, maybe but ... Story is, ... it feels strange. The English names (alias sure but the way OP talk about her mother in name, not as mom, ...), 7 children, the mother paying 50%, or more (why). If its a culture where the man plans the wedding, so you expect a more male dominated society but the way OP talks about the wedding, the mother, ... It feels like its two stories or something "off" with those stories.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

S1: If Mark and his fiancée want to dictate who can be involved or invited to their wedding, then they can pay for their wedding themselves! What’s that old saying…beggars can’t be choosers! If you want handouts, you have to be willing to compromise a little!

[@NottyAries]

S1: If the groom wants to follow the tradition when it comes to money, but doesn't want tradition when it comes to participation, then OP is NTA.

[@jasmineflower1988]

Story 1: given the context of their culture I would say that the brother knows exactly what he's doing and being cunning and manipulative with his family. He sounds like a completely selfish individual and a liar. But the family should've stopped "lending" him money years ago. Where are the repercussions? ESH. Why give that money to someone who has only ever shown you he's not worthy of it? Story 2: people are assuming the husband is embezzling when op says he owns his business. So he's not necessarily funding his secret girlfriend by embezzlement. That might be his personal stockpile of earnings. Either way though he's a complete waste of space and op deserves better.

[@paulagoeringer9466]

This. Why are his parents continuing to fund it and not call him out on his behavior? It sounds like he's the spoiled golden child. It hasn't done him any favors.

[@Floratic]

Story 1: Even before the cultural input I still think OP is NTA. Her brother Mark is. Also if you have your parents paying for your wedding then you should reserve a small portion of invites for them as a courtesy. If you want all the control then pay for it yourself. 🤷‍♀️

[@hilaryc3203]

#1 OP seems to be from a middle east or Indian culture and for those wedding, family is extremely important. The weddings are amazing and the family are relied upon to take on some significant roles. Eastern weddings typically have more than one event as well and it takes a lot of choreography to get it right. Also, the communities are tight knit, and what OP's brother is doing, will shame them before their community. It's not about parents being entitled, it's age old traditions that make or break how you are treated in their community. A lot of westerners don't understand that it is extreme humiliation that could affect the next generation. Not everyone is a westerner, and their cultures should be respected, so calling OP and her parents names is just ignorant and cruel.

[@stevebanner5609]

Story 2: It was NOT an invasion of privacy to check out your hubs. When he knew you knew of the email he should’ve just given up then…

[@shadout]

Every time I see someone roll out the his/her wedding, his/her choice line, I wonder if they've missed the part where no-one is obligated to be part of the wedding. You can make all the rules you want about how the wedding is conducted, but you can't make people attend.

[@missunderstoodmal1700]

Wait, wait, wait. When a dad pulls his wedding contribution back after finding out his daughter won't be letting him walk her down the aisle, Reddit approves (me too). But, when a family is paying so much towards a wedding and is having promise after promise broken, Reddit declares them TA? Am I missing something?

[@pinowlgi4946]

I feel like there is more to the wedding party story than we're getting. Is the brother a cheapskate? Or with the family considering them the 'ideal' for their community is he sort of a black sheep in the family with some resentment towards the younger siblings cause of the difference in how he was treated growing up vs them?

[@gilles111]

Story 1, the entitlement of OP was the first thing that sprung up to me when she stated "How close a family SHOULD be" instead of "How close a family COULD be". By implying should be I immediately knew where this was going. Deleting the original post because she was voted TA was just a sign of the entitlement of OP to thinking everything should go as she/her tradition wants it and all other opinions are wrong.

[@TwiggyHetfield27]

Story 2: I would've walked up to the complex. Looked at the doorbell names to find the hubbys name & rang the damn bell. Secret apartment means secret girlfriend. After Updates: Going to him to confront him IN FRONT OF HIS MOTHER... this woman's got balls! Love it. Also if I were OP I'd contact the girlfriend & tell her the truth & that if she stays with this jerkoff he'll do the same to her.

[@TheVeggiekat]

The girlfriend probably knows she’s the other woman and doesn’t care.

[@AndyyWithAY]

I kicked ADHD's @$$ today and it was randomly chilly, so out for a walk right now. 2 days til the weekend 🥳🙌🏾

[@tictactoe325]

OP1 Whoa. Her brother is a huge major AH. Time for both sets of parents need to pull the financial pin on the wedding. There’s no way on earth I’d like my daughter marrying a man like this. He should be ashamed that he’s not contributing one cent to the wedding.

[@sksunshine4860]

#1 - if you are asked to pay for a portion of your child's wedding, sit down with them and specify how much you will pay and stick to it. I am a Canadian and felt indignant at his treatment of his family. Mark is absolutely the AH for numerous reasons. Yes, it is his wedding but he's not contributing anything to it, his mom is doing all the work and paying for everything while he sits on his entitled backside. He's lying about things and if I were his fiancee, he would be my ex-fiance simply for that alone. I'm the oldest in my large family with 5 siblings and would react as OP did if my siblings were left out. Normally the brunt of the cost of weddings in North America falls on the bride's family, not the groom's. It is his wedding but it sounds like he wants all the perks but to shun his family. I personally am not married and never have been but have been part of more than a dozen wedding including my 5 siblings and multiple cousins. The first couple were venue receptions but then one of my cousins had a church wedding/backyard reception and since then all the weddings have been backyard receptions as it made so much more sense logistically. I come from a long line of large families and my cousins' families are also large so most had larger houses with large backyards which fit 100 to 130 attendees comfortably. If the reception is at the bride's parents house, they don't do any of the prep work or food, everyone joins in to get it done from the tables to the bar to the photo area . Everyone pitches in with the food and photos and the only expenses are the cake, beverages and floral arrangements. Once the bride and groom are gone, everyone pitches in and cleans up the backyard and house before heading off so there is no stress on the host. We fill their recycling bins and garbage then whatever is left over gets divvied up and taken to other houses so they aren't left with garbage sitting around for two weeks.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@clarrie93]

Nah, the "don't talk to husband till you get more info" train has rode off to the sunset when OP called his husband the FIRST time. The husband already knows something is up

[@sarahhosl2330]

Story 1: İt is an invitation, decline and have a nice day with your siblings. İf Mark doesn't want most of the siblings he wouldn't miss one more....

[@starrhunter633]

For the first story, I hate how reddit doesn't listen to the whole story and looks at things through American standards (I know reddit is around the world but mostly American people answer). Yes we know the wedding should be the bride and grooms choices and no one paying should be able to hold that. However OP said it in the beginning it is a cultural thing if both sides of the wedding are the same culture and her side is getting priority it will cause backlash in the community for the family. Western mindset doesn't always understand that things like that not only can cause rumors for the family but can also depending on families influence can cost them business deals present and future, can hurt the siblings future prospects as people will talk about they are the ones excluded . Now you see the brother already lied and could also lie in the future about why they got excluded and why he was treating the brides family better. I'm American too so I understand we want to just say do what you want , but things can have all kinds of bad for the family if it really is no reason behind him excluding the siblings. Just my two cents.

[@colleens1107]

Story one: OP REALLY should have put the fact that it’s the grooms family who does the wedding planning and all that in the beginning because in western culture it’s the brides family so I was only on their side because they contributed money to the wedding. But again, this family should have learned to not give the moocher money after all the times he’s taken and never given. Fuck this Mark (not narrations, he’s cool)

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@MidnaNightengale]

Story 1: Potential money issues aside, it sounds like OP's brother has been SMOTHERED by cultural traditions for a WHILE, and has been looking for his own space, and own way as a result. I don't think OP is entirely wrong about the resentment part because of this, but it sounds DESERVED. I don't see any world, where OP isn't the AH.

[@simac8396]

Story 2: why didn't op just call her mother-in-laws land line if cell services is so spotty?

[@crawdaddy2004]

5:37 Based on the title, I assumed the siblings weren’t even INVITED to the wedding, but it just sounds like the younger siblings are still invited, just not part of the wedding PARTY. So at this juncture, either “more information needed” or “YTA.”

[@thebladeofchaos]

Story 1 I think I get it, because it doesn't feel like a culture thing. bear in mind that Mark initially claimed he paid for half the wedding and his mother paid half, when it turned out it was inlaws and mother, nothing from him. in that crossfire, it took an argument in order to get the siblings even invited. Mark is hiding something. something he doesn't want the in laws to know. do they even know Mark's family have paid his half? are they aware that Mark's family even exist as they do until being told about the army of siblings. Either Mark hasn't been happy for the longest time with the family situation, which means this golden view of the family is viewed through tinted lenses, which means there's a lot under the surface we don't know, or Mark is trying to keep up with the Jones. he's trying to look richer then he is or, indeed, is ashamed of something with his family. 'I saw another wedding do this' would be nice to dig into. he saw others exclude siblings, ok why? were they unmarried? were they uneducated? kids out of wedlock? dig into this and you'll find out what's going on

[@lina9535]

Story 1: That poor mom, being pregnant 3 years in a row with no breaks (in regard to the siblings at the age of 22, 21, and 20) Now look, yes there is culture to think about. However, someone can be of a culture and not "subscribe" to everything from that culture, and that's their right. Yes it'll most likely cause some drama though. But, one thing that I personally think is important, is that culture/traditions aren't everything. The brother is allowed to make his own decisions without there being malice behind it. And honestly, putting that much importance on tradition/culture is just the same as placing those over the brother as a person with his own wants, ie him and his wants aren't as important/doesn't matter as much as the culture/tradition. The brother does sound greedy, so I'm going with NTA for OP. However, I'm also going with NTA for the brother because it is his choices. He's TA for how he's acting with the money and all that. Call me an AH, but I'm of the firm belief, that regardless of tradition/culture, even if someone else is paying for a wedding, they don't get to make decisions about it. Because it's not their wedding. They can come with suggestions, but it shouldn't be expected. Also, this is partially from personal experience, but you can say "no" when someone is asking for money, even when it's a family member. You aren't obliged to give them anything.

[@Werewolfoverlord12]

Story 1: seriously? Reddit has issues. Not including your siblings at all is definitely a snub, even over here. If youre close why NOT include your siblings? Theres something fishy here and i dont like it. Culturally, if it means a middle finger to the excluded , and he knows this, then he's doing it on purpose. Geeze

[@garthrogers2269]

Story 1. Sounds like a 'but our family has ALWAYS done it this way! Why won't ***** follow our tradition?!' situation.

[@macylouwho1187]

I hope that people who lie and cheat get their just rewards in life. In my location, the saying “cheaters never prosper” is usually 100% true. The “winning” they do is usually very temporary until their whole world and finances fall in around their heads. The consequences of their actions arrive in due time, it’s never “if”-but WHEN that happens.

[@ToeBeanCozy]

"People look to us as an example of how close family and parents should be" gives me the ick honestly. That's quite the pedestal.

[@Lillypop93]

Someone else pointed out that op deleting the original post for being a AH is another sign of their "wonderful" personality and Id have to agree 👀 op gives me the ick too. Plus I think some of this culture stuff is made up I was looking last night and couldn't find anything on a culture that requires the man to plan the wedding like op stated

[@lewisqb12]

@@Lillypop93adding the fact that they talk with so much disdain for there super close brother😒 deleted the post then months later come back to update cause it oh there’s something that helps there side of the argument… wonder how much of it really was the brother at this point in the story I am at😊

[@willowwhisps1339]

So, I'm from a western country. Even to me, its very odd to exclude some of the siblings with absolutely no reason? That's not okay to me. Even just "I can't pay for it" would've done. Also, he wants a small wedding that only includes people close, then excludes his sisters? With no reason behind it? That's so messed up. It is his choice, but he has to accept the consequences that there will be rifts in the family as a result of this. If he's gonna give the shaft to his siblings, of course they won't be as close to them because that's a clear message that he does not see them as close or important people in his life. I dont think refusing to go is the right play, but he should understand that the sibs will see this message and act accordingly. If you aren't including your siblings, you need to explain why. You can't just say "cause I feel like it" and expect nothing will change.

[@stellamccoy5259]

S1. NTA. One good thing about our world is that we are made up of many cultures. Traditions can be the same within cultures, but many traditions are different. It is ignorant for people to talk negatively about cultures they know nothing of.

[@jaimejones3177]

Story 1: I can understand mom being upset that he backed out on her guests. If he said yes, he should have stuck to it, if for nothing else than simply out of respect for his mother. As for the set up of the wedding... thats on Mark & fiancee... its their wedding. I had my wedding at my grandparents farm under an arbor down by their pond. It was inexpensive and beautiful. I kept the guest list small...60 ppl. My grandparents wanted to invite tons of extended family I see about one every 5-10 yrs. I said no. I wanted my immediate family including some aunts, uncles & cousins as well as close friends. They insisted that I invite the others because they always come to our family functions. I said no. This isn't a "family function" it's my wedding. They ended up going behind my back and inviting ppl I didn't want there and those same ppl caused problems. This woman told everyone a few months later that I was getting married because I had to... she implied I was pregnant and it was a shot gųn wedding. Not true. We did get married pretty quickly but it was because A) we wanted to and B) we wanted the wedding to happen during peak autumn season because fall in Maine is gorgeous. This was typical behavior for her and the rest of the extended family. They caused issues every where they went. So, other than previously promised guests...the guest list & the planning/setup should be decided by the couple getting married. Nobody else.

[@jeaniebee3657]

why is story 2 cropping up again i have heard it a couple times today...i was hoping each time there was an update on it lol i remember it from like a year ago

[@chloecook4511]

Story 2: doesn't his parents have a land line? Surely they have to have some way of communicating with people besides snail mail. Also there is no cell phone service where I live but when friends come over they are able to send and receive texts on their cell phones.

[@DT-sx6im]

I work as a bookkeeper and we have clients who own a business and withdraw funds for personal use all the time. It gets sorted under "Owner Draws" and is taxed accordingly when the time comes. It depends on what the business is and if he's the sole owner but I do feel it's plenty plausible the guy in story 2 can use business funds without embezellment.

[@paulastiles5507]

Maybe, but it's going to make his divorce extra messy.

[@Daug555]

S1: It’s not about them. Mark should pay for his OWN DAMN wedding.

[@poetryqn]

Story 1: What culture is this? Because it certainly sounds like OP has alot of requirements for a wedding where she is not the bride or groom. At least in most Western countries, who pays for it is up to the bride and groom. If 'Carol' feels put upon, don't pay. As for a wedding party with ALL the siblings included? Why? Why can't they be happy being guests? None of this makes any sense to me, and the only explanation we're given is culture. (Which to my ears sounds too close to 'but faaaaamily'.

[@Nerdygoddess]

Asia. Indian weddings are the ones I'm most familiar with, and even then it's not very. If I remember right, the family goes all out on a three day party(ies), maybe longer if you can afford it. I don't know if they still rent elephants in the US though...

[@Lillypop93]

​@@Nerdygoddessso in Asian cultures they make the man plan the wedding? Cause I was just all over the Internet looking for some religion or culture that relies on the man to plan the wedding and couldn't find anything that wasn't about dowries or who has to pay.

[@Nerdygoddess]

Missed the groom family paying bit. Did a double check as it's not my culture and there are a lot of different cultures in that continent - but the biggest one I'm seeing is China. Which also can put a lot of stock in...familial piety. Which I don't oppose as a general theory, but when it swings into blind obedience and overbearing parents...not a fan. @@Lillypop93

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@jodieg6318]

Story 1: I get a very Keeping Up Apperances vibe from OP; she sounds the most concerned about what the neighbors are going to say about the whole family not being in the bridal party. She Didn't even mention her future SIL in all this, did brother's fiance even want the other siblings as bridesmaids? I had a very small wedding and my sister flipped out about not being a bridesmaid; were not close and she lives in another state and I only had one bridesmaid and a maid of honor to begin with becuase that was how many we wanted and could afford.

[@snake5solid]

I still think that the brother is a cheap sleazebag but it's true what you say. This is very much "what will people say" vibe and trying to force some unnecessary bs because "it's appropriate".

[@jodieg6318]

@@snake5solid oh I agree about brother and its certainly an ESH. Culture is a hard thing to comment on especially when there's no other context than "its our culture" I'm still just confused about where SIL is in all this? Culture or not surely she has an opinion on who she wants in the bridal party.

[@PinkMarshmallows]

Story 1: I would have to ask as to what did his siblings do to not be invited to the wedding? There has to be a reason, right?

[@BraveryWing26]

"If you think that's close, OH DEARIE ME" Indeed Mark INDEED.

[@Midgetbear-nk1fe]

People of Reddit just forgot that in story one that Mark had no good reason to exclude his siblings

[@Lillypop93]

As told by the person who he would be mad at let's not pretend that they're definitely a reliable narrator some of this is sketchy to me 👀

[@Steakylover123]

I am not sure why people think OP from story 1 is the ahole. It is really rude to ask people money for a wedding and then exclude family members they know are important. Sure they can invite whoever they want, if it was the brothers own money. To ask mom for an insane amount of money, and excluding siblings is insane to me. (Unless they already were no or very low contact) Peope should really be aware that there are cultural differences in the world. And just because it is different than yours, doesn't mean the difference is bad.

[@toothless3835]

They WERE invited. they weren't part of the party which is normal when you've got SIX siblings. Them being part of the bridal party is kind of insulting to the wife in my opinion. THEIR culture or whatever might have the groom plan it, but the bride's family might not have that tradition and has to plan it. So he's just relaying what his wife planned.. THey're being pushy and annoying.

[@Steakylover123]

@@toothless3835 nah man... It is rude. They were only invited for the reception

[@fiyahquacker2835]

"I am not a moron" while taking the moronic path.

[@sandrakranzwinther3286]

"He's separated." Is that why he doesn't live with her full time? Have she met his friends? So many questions/red flags for the "girlfriend".

[@maddydavidsdottir9862]

As the 3rd oldest of 19 I can say 100% you can love your siblings and still feel left out and pushed out.

[@maxinemyers9215]

I hope there is more information on story 2🌷 Thanks Mark

[@ImaNerdANDaGeek]

I have no idea what to think on story one. I feel like I need a lot more information on both the culture and personal history of the family's relationships

[@mindyrolston3915]

Story 2 his side piece is going to be paying the wife for the affair. Hopefully she takes him to the cleaners. Alimony child support and a big payout for the affair. Then inform his company of his embezzlement

[@sadunicorn3863]

Story 1: Once again reddit proves its cultural insensitivity. It is so wild how individualistic western cultures are to the point where they are calling Mark NTA for basically scalping his mom for money while not even considering her requests. He is lucky she wasnt more demanding or hasn't pulled her funding. Mark is a lying cheap AH and honestly the whole family should pull out of the wedding and pull their funding. Let the cheapskate and his in-laws pay for it themselves.

[@eyreyereye]

reddit hyper individualism at it again for story 1: sure, it's the brother's wedding and he can do what he wants, but he's still not immune from the social consequences of picking and choosing his siblings -- he IS the asshole in this situation, even if it's on him to decide who is and is not included in the wedding party, and he will deserve whatever backlash he gets from his family

[@MCBRUCE76]

S2: you can't help a person who doesn't want to be helped and is arrogant and ignorant to what thousands of people are telling her not to do.

[@piratsnygg]

1st: The fact that OP kept claiming cultural reasons without specifying what culture, made me think it's not cultural at all, but a very family specific tradition, and they didn't want to get called out by other people from the same culture.

[@Lillypop93]

Yeah I was on the multiple sites looking for any reference to a culture that's completely reliant on the man to PLAN the wedding. All I Found was stuff about who pays and dowries.

[@lynsthoughts3576]

He LIED to his family, and STOLE their money. NTA

[@marktwain2053]

2. Okay, when I read that there was an apartment in your husbands name you knew nothing about, the only logical conclusion was...mistress. This is a guy who SHOULD be taken to the cleaners.

[@hellsbells145]

Story 1 is classic middle child syndrome if you ask me and yes it's a thing neither the eldest nor youngest can make them demand things be about them when the situation arises!

[@megaspit]

This is what i dont get about the wedding Yes, Mark isnt paying for it. But that just means he has nothing to gain by lowering the cost. Its not like he gets cash back on it. It sounds to me like he wants his own identity. OP seems to base their whole identity on being a part of the perfect family. That kind of thing is very overbearing to people who like to do their own thing. OP pretty evidently wants to hold this money over his head in order to force him from shattering her perfect sibling image. That line about "everyone looks up to us as a model" says it all.

[@Ashbrash1998]

That would make sense if he was actually planning the wedding instead of making Carol plan and pay.

[@megaspit]

@@Ashbrash1998 that means he doesn't get the wedding he wants?

[@paulastiles5507]

@@megaspit If he wants the wedding he wants, he can plan and pay for it instead of guilting Mommy into doing it.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@RawkLobstah88]

I'm going against the grain on story 1 and say Not enough information. The story *reeks* of missing missing reasons, either for or against Mark. If Mark is either spoiled and entitled, or is just being a greedy manipulator, there have to be more examples of this as they grew up beyond "he borrowed money a few times", and OP painting him as the black sheep in an otherwise 100% perfect family is somewhat suspicious. On the other hand, if Mark had developed a somewhat resentment towards the family due to things that happened in the past, is the OP willingly neglecting to include that information, or does she just not know? In any case, I genuinely can't say whether OP and her family is in the wrong.

[@merlinathrawes746]

Story 1: I don't know what's going on, but with OP's explanation this is a very cultural element. Off-hand I'd say Mark does have a problem as he's always "begged" for money from the family. Have the younger sisters turned him down/been unable to help money wise and he's holding that against them? Another possibility is that it's the bride that doesn't want them in the wedding party and Mark is just backing her to keep the peace with her. Still, for Mark (and maybe his bride) to go against culture and tradition, something is up. UPDATE: NTA! I'd say Mark does have something against members of his own family. The lies are telling. And while Mark doesn't HAVE to have anyone in the wedding party or guests that he doesn't want, it's pretty dumb to antagonize the person who is paying for a large chunk of the wedding expenses. And it's also the right of the other member's of OP's family, as well as OP. to not fund the wedding or attend in any capacity if they so choose. That finger being flown to tradition and culture flies both ways. Story 2: OP, you say your husband looks for excuses to be out of the house a lot. Does he also work late frequently? If you have access to your banking records are there withdrawals that match apartment rent amounts? If so, your marriage is in serious trouble. UPDATES: If Adam is the owner of his own company, it's very likely he has other accounts OP is unable to access info to. But given a woman at least spoke at the door and then watched thru the windows, he either has a side piece or for some reason is supporting another woman. Doesn't look good. Yeah, about what I suspect all of us were thinking. OP, good luck and best wishes. Take care of yourself and the kids.

[@cjandauntieyaya1446]

Europeans and Americans are a bit myopic when it comes to weddings and cultural situations of other places in the world. They see their way as the best way and anybody else's as backwards or too strict or too this or that. Certain cultures make family a high priority and in those places, having a middle child scoff at SOME of their culture's traditions yet insisting on keeping with the tradition that their parents pay for their wedding really shows a sense of entitlement. I'm thinking OP's brother has been the golden child all his life and has become a little shithead who thinks he deserves mommy's money without appreciating everything she does for him. Some traditions should be broken and mommy should stop funding her children into adulthood.

[@TheBlueDsc]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like Mark has covered Story 2 before, and there were more updates to it.

[@aamp84]

I’ve heard it before as well, I don’t remember if it was Mark’s channel or not though.

[@lidkagatarek3023]

2nd Story: op should tell the GF you were not divorcing but you will now.

[@Davtwan]

This feels like a situation where there’s no winners, or that most of the people in the situation (including Mark [in the story]) are dropping the ball. I will say something important about the culture aspect though: culture should be enlightening and have a deep sense of community and family. Using aspects of your culture for control or “fairness” rarely goes well.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@aikikaname6508]

Story 1: Yeah OP REALLY needed to say what culture they’re from, because the whole conflict is routed in specific cultural customs.

[@amadddd0]

S1: Anyone else get kinda Ick vibes when OP said "We're a big family, have been through alot, but are still close" In her perception thats the case, but with so many people, i cont imagine her view point is a little rose tinted. Which is why they dont necessarily see their brother might not be that close. New info sounds like everyone sucks. The bro can still be a jerk, and OP and everyone else is also being shitty