I React to the craziest comments from Blizzard banning Mythic+ Leavers...

[@chain872005]

Wow, the leavers are extremely salty they have to face consequences. Great video, Metro.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha wild stuff!

[@Millennium2696]

Rio score is such a fake way to measure yourself against others. There are great players with just +10's timed and complete idiots with 3k+ score. Someone with a lot of time will eventually time keys, he just has to play a lot and eventually, there will always be that person that is going to carry you. But when that person times the key(s), he thinks he's a lot better than everyone who timed the key on a lower lvl while still nothing has changed :D. This is basically how m+ pugging goes with if you only play with random people. Your score means nothing at the end of the day

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Millennium2696 we are just talking about blizzard caring about this topic.

[@AnEnragedCat]

Absolute banger of a video, Metro! This is some top-tier content.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Thanks!

[@patrowan6495]

I agree, this is super entertaining.

[@MikeyJ232]

I think a lot of people don’t realize how overgeared they are for the content they’re running. I see it a lot when I raid. 75% of the group is +15 ilvl over the reward and when I see one person get called out for low dps I’m so confused. They are literally doing the appropriate amount of damage for the difficulty, you are just here to farm easy crests.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@MikeyJ232 that is a REALLY insightful comment tbh. You absolutely are correct about this. People farming low difficulty keys mad that some one isn't doing 2m overall haha

[@tek512]

This... is a really good point. Hell, thinking about it, I'm guilty of it too. I'll write someone's DPS off as trash without even bothering to check their gear. They could well be doing good numbers for what they're working with.

[@edwinrivas4541]

This has to be a 10 and below problem. 90% of my disbanded keys above 10 we all just agree it's not gonna be timed. I do disagree that I should be forced to carry any player. However I do think the point of leaving you bring up has caused the people to self reflect and some people are starting to see that they are in danger from bans from it. I do think a vote should be implemented.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I'm in favor of a vote too, but I don't think it can be implemented without a soloQ system. But ya, hundred percent seems to be a low key thing here.

[@Aethermie]

Some of these people are just crazy. Playing online game while not being ready for other people to do stupid mistakes is the most ridiculous and childish thing one can do It's like buying oranges over and over again and lose your mind and complain every time you have to peel it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha love that analogy!

[@ThomasBachler01]

haha that whole comment is pure gold

[@EmmaArms]

complete nonsense, i have to be ready that people do stupid mistakes sure but that doesnt mean that i waste my time when they do it, if you enjoy wasting your time in a key that is not timed have fun!

[@ThomasBachler01]

​@@EmmaArms based on your comment, I am assuming you are pushing 14+ at which point I think you can have a reasonable expectation to see almost no stupid mistakes and at which point leaving after one mistake also becomes more reasonable. Don't forgot that these comments here are not specifically for very high keys, but all key levels combined. Most keys need a lot of stupid mistake to end up in not-timed territory.

[@Telados]

Can you blame people for going insane after witnessing the same mistakes in every run you do?

[@lfqsthq2833]

already had my own issue. got into a group with people that were not ready for the key, and it was +4. odd part was that we got to the final boss, and the tank seemed to start intentionally die? 100+ deaths later, and the TANK leaves. wanted to leave sooner, but didnt want to start accumulating a ban

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Those are the ones you want to record and send in!

[@tomtom123123]

A few things that could be done here. 1. A surrender button where having 3/5 or 4/5 votes end the run and teleport players out. While also giving negative rep and a timeout with optional ban for multiple leaves. 2. A reputation system where you can give commendations to players and having end of season rewards for a certain rep level. Both would be ideal many multiplayer games from FPS to MOBAS have them. I think this would improve not only leavers but also player interaction within mythic dungeons.

[@DonH-r5z]

I agree blizzard took the lazy route and there are other ways of handling this...I'm sure many players will just avoid doing mythic dungeons especially tanks.. like who wants to risk their whole account being suspended over a mythic dungeon disagreement.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@DonH-r5z why would they avoid doing the dungeons all together instead of just avoid leaving?

[@allie211]

1. Not disagreeing with you---just note that the surrender button also comes with its own problems. In Lost Ark, there is a vote popup people can initiate to disband the group. In runs there would always be 1 moron that would die early to the boss and then immediately initiate that vote popup to block the view of everyone else that was trying to still do the fight. 2. Yes, the endorsement system in Overwatch is actually copied from League's same system, who in turn initiated this system after much research as to how to lower toxicity in the game. They found that this system did lower toxicity by a significant margin. It's a mystery to me that Blizzard is concerned about lowering toxicity in an FPS but not in an RPG, just based on them not being worried about implementing it in WoW.

[@prismriver659]

​@@allie211 for your first point, in FFXIV you can't smack the vote abandon if you're still in combat (there's also a timer associated with it, so you have to get the content a fair go). While I think the community, cultures and content are vastly different (I'm only new to WoW so assuming). But it definitely could work with a bit of set up from blizz!

[@jamesmoore381]

I appreciate you a lot. I used to be a leaver when I made stupid mistakes or the dps wasn’t high enough and watching your videos made me realize how toxic that was.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad you feel that way!

[@Sarth-q8j]

@@jamesmoore381 I used to leave keys too. And at a certain point I realized I was contributing to this problem. So I took a step back and decided to do my part and help the community by sticking with the run and not griefing or insulting players. And now I overall have better runs. I meet good players and get their battle tags, too

[@tili_]

i never thought these vids would cause any behavior change

[@VDHmain]

I'm legit curious about that. What makes people leave after making a silly mistake? That always baffled me. We see that from healers and tanks a lot in lower keys and it's really confusing.

[@d4mephisto]

same here. Metro brings a grown up view and helps me think if I'm being unreasonable. his videos are great for reflecting on your own gameplay

[@Sarth-q8j]

I look forward to reading the comments about the comments in relation to Blizzard’s comments following their actions regarding this issue

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

lots of comments now that I think of it.

[@Sarth-q8j]

@ I love when you do this kind of stuff too. People need to be called out for their bad behavior. And this time it’s so much better because they’re exposing themselves

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Sarth-q8j haha glad you enjoy it!

[@birds-and-bones]

As you said, there's no evidence yet of anyone having been actually banned. So, anecdote from a decade ago: My friend worked on the game Rust (still does) and had overall admin rights. He regularly checked the un-ban request forums, where players would post on the forums to complain when their ingame accounts had been actioned. 100% of these people would complain that they had done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, that this was a mis-fire of the system and an abuse of justice. How dare the developers punish them for just playing the game, unban them at once, they have never done anything wrong, etc etc etc. Then a few responders going "oh my, the auto-ban bot has false positives? That's not good!" Then André came in and posted *screenshots* of the OP, just sending the most vile messages in chat. Not just the typical WoW abuse. We're talking 5x allcaps n-word in a row level of slurs. At some point, his arrivals in these threads were so regular that people understood: Nobody, not a single guy, was ever a false positive. They were all liars. Whenever I hear about WoW bans, it's this same energy. I imagine if we ever find out from anyone, it will be this same tune. Or it will take YEARS until someone admits it. People who are genuinely toxic don't admit to it in public. It takes a reform process to stop being like that - and you don't turn around from that within a month.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@birds-and-bones very well said. It's the same thing in wow too, like you said with the other game. Love when the community managers post evidence on those people demanding appeals.

[@oldetimes]

This whole topic has been very entertaining to watch unfold. Appreciate the videos!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, its really been a wild ride. I feel like we are just getting started too.

[@josephandrees5381]

A friend of mine is still new and we bring him to 10s because at our ilvl, you can't really learn anything in 8s. His DPS is definitely less than stellar, but it's fine. They're just 10s, we're in mostly bis gear, and are just filling our vault. I can understand a person's frustration joining us seeing one of our dps doing like 1 mil overall. We don't have an issue timing the keys most of the time, but I can understand frustration. We usually say up front that one of us is new and a lot of times people will dip after that

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, anyone who is "frustrated" by it is only that way because their ego. Its not a problem at all, and I have been submitted many keys where group damage looks very low and they still easily upgrade it.

[@krystian3797]

Literally 2 days ago I had someone leave my dawn breaker +10 I was doing with a friend for weekly, I've done +12 keys and am 630 ilvl but this was like my friend's 3rd +10 key and he's 619. Had a random devastation evoker, frost dk and holy paladin, all 630+. We get to 3rd boss and the holy paladin says wtf still missing %, up until this point we only had 2 deaths and there was still 12 mins left on the timer to just do the last boss and 1 pack. Before the key started I linked route and said don't worry I've done it before we do 5% during last boss intermission. Just before pulling the 3rd boss I type in party chat follow me during intermission, I ping, me my friend and the frost dk fly to the pack, the dev evoker and holy paladin fly down to the platform and literally afk 45 seconds while we barely kill this pack because we are missing 2 people. Because of this we don't have enough time to fly down to the platform before boss engages so we wipe. Not the end of the world we didn't lust/hero because it was on cd and we did actually kill the pack so we have count. We literally have 7 mins to just do last boss, 2 combat resses and lust soon. The holypaladin says something along the lines of stupid route, waste of time, learn to play, retard tank etc etc, literally just 2 lines of insults. Whatever it's fine I pull last boss again and my friend replies with "route is fine, relax man", paladin says "watch this" and just leaves group and bubble hearths.

[@sunderwire]

That’s so frustrating that the pally just bubble hearths when you were very likely going to time it, some people just suck

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@krystian3797 that's a really wild story. Would love to see some footage of you doing this strategy!

[@cheatdeathproc]

This type of player (Paly) is exactly the type that should be banned. Unfortunately, given what we know so far, they have to do it “a great many times” to be banned.

[@ThomasBachler01]

I agree this sucks and people like that should be banned. But you also have to see that doing this ultra min/max strategy during the intermission is not something most people are used to and is basically asking for trouble - even if you announce and link it. You save a tiny bit of time (that you don't even ever need in a +10 in that dungeon) and you have a high chance of people dying or being overwhelmed/upset by this unfamiliar strategy. Not a great choice imo.

[@krystian3797]

@ThomasBachler01 whilst I kind of agree, I've just been trying to do that route as practice so I don't forget any of the other pulls etc. Anyway I can never win with pugs do some boring route and they ninja pull stuff or yell at me to pull more.

[@GoncherWithTheSauce]

It's honestly really funny to see that you almost managed to make this video x10 longer than the one that sparked it up in the first place EXCLUSIVELY because of how far bad actors are willing to go to justify something as objectively shitty as leaving a key for, more often than not, absolutely no real reason. Keep up the good work!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha thanks!

[@iskarr99]

I wanted to add and not sure many people will feel the same but since watching your content and watching you do higher keys, I've been able to push up to like +10, and 11 keys, and while that isn't that high of a key, its been fun, but the one thing that I wanted to include is that I appreciate your input for the toxicity in wow. I have been part of that group and while I still get salty, I've been a lot more forgiving with people to teach them how to not mess up a mechanic, which has been helpful and some of them have been happy to learn new stuff that makes the keys better so they don't keep getting yelled at by the group. We all gotta learn the mechanics, when to kick, what not to pull, the limits of what our class can do depending on our ilvl. I dont know if I would consider a 10 or 11 key low? Unless its by someone like YodaTV who does like 19 keys, but for me they are high. Anyways keep up the good cotent, thanks for your help when i pop in your stream and ask questions!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to have helped. I love interacting with the community, so if you need anything further, please just let me know!

[@bynamscott5564]

Oh yeaaahh, love these type of videos

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear

[@DarkmoonFare]

Wondering what you think about this take Metro: Getting into a mythic plus group requires 5 people to come together and work as a team to accomplish the goal, the same way that in a game like League of Legends 5 people are put on a team with the goal of winning the game. Just like in mythic plus, sometimes you're going to que into a game of League and your team might suck or you might be having a bad game and the chances of you accomplishing the goal of winning is very low. The main reason I think most people don't just outright leave a game of League though the same way people seem to leave dungeons is that in League there is a much more obvious ending point to the experience, that obviously being your team losing the game. You know no matter how bad you fed in the game or how bad your teammates sucked, eventually the other team is going to snowball and push into your base and end the game and you can move on to the next. I personally have always thought that Blizzard should implement punishments for leaving a key solely based on the timer of the dungeon. If your doing mythic plus, "winning" the dungeon should be completing the key on time. I think that should mean that if you sign up for a key and the dungeon starts, you are 100% locked in to that experience until the timer runs out. Not when you THINK the key is a deplete, but when the timer actually hits zero. Once the timer hits zero, I think its completely fair for anyone to have the opinion that they have "lost" the dungeon, that the game is over, and they should be free to make a decision to leave and move on to the next one. And if the whole group wants to stop the key before the timer is out? Put in a surrender option, a vote that if 3 or 4 people think that the key is over before the timer runs out, the game registers that the group has voted and everyone can leave safely. I know this system isn't perfect, but I think it would move this game mode in a better direction of getting people in the mindset that if you choose to engage with this content, you are locking yourself in for a pre-determined amount of time no matter how poorly it goes.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I agree with this, its just more extreme than it needs to be. Right now, there is no way to add a surrender option, I'd imagine, but if they did all these things, I would be happy.

[@ThomasBachler01]

I don't think that would do that much. I would argue that most of the people leaving are DPS and most of them don't have fast Qs for M+. It's not like they leave the key and find a new one immediately. So I don't think that blocking the in game time would do as much as you think it would, the penalty isn't really that big. Another factor is also that many leaver also leave to punish the group or an individual, so if the whole group is blocked than they are actually able to punish the group/individual even more by wasting even more of their time, which works a little bit against it. I get where you are coming from, but I don't think this is the right solution. You can just do other things in the game while you wait for the M+ timer to run down, its not the same as in League where you are actually locked into the game and can't do anything else.

[@tyralosally1329]

Man, coming back to wow after a few very stressful months really feels like christmas came early this year.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Hahaha you have missed A LOT. Pretty much been nonstop since the Warcraft direct a few weeks back.

[@slarson9483]

I have see quite a few people throw slurs in key. (maybe a few time a season) I report them but I have never seen anyone get banned. (not sure how I would tell if they were banned, so maybe they are getting banned) I try to do keys with at least a couple of my friends so that if someone leaves we can still time the key.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya you likely wouldn't know. But I can tell you that it's likely they were. I know a few people who deal with this. It's a zero leniency policy if you use hate speech.

[@Jlockcuff2]

The thing about balance druids taking Trees to help taunt mobs is more then just a little bit of Dps. Yeah it might help you live but so does all the other utility druids have but That alone is a 50% Dps Loss you'd be better off with an Aug at that point for the Ebonscales buff they give you.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

This was in shadowlands, specifically during Necrotic weeks.

[@Jlockcuff2]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Ah ok yeah i just got to that point in the video of SL but yeah Treants was important

[@ThomasBachler01]

My man, he says it was in the Other Side and says it is Shadowlands right at the very start of that topic, he also says that it was necrotic week - which is a key piece to the story. So, you had all the clues you needed when this topic even started, but I think you got a little bit lost there 🙂

[@sunderwire]

Do you just retroactively record your runs using shadowplay or something? Or do you actively record it with OBS?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Actively ya.

[@BuddyguyBret]

I’ll admit I got frustrated and left a key the other day. My own key, and it was a +2 but still feel bad about it. They even tried inviting me back and I just logged off. The tank was obviously new and we wiped on the first boss. He wouldn’t mount in the dungeon (Ara), and not doing it after I asked him to after first boss wipe and wasting time. I probably could’ve sucked it up, but it is what it is. 🤷‍♂️

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That would have been a good one to record and send in!

[@BuddyguyBret]

@ true; it is kind of a word salad in yt comments lol.

[@ThomasBachler01]

How many keys have you done so far and was that an alt or your main? I am asking to understand why you got so quickly frustrated in that situation.

[@BuddyguyBret]

@ it was my alt. It was the first key I did on him. I mainly do 8s for crests on my main*. I’m actually not a huge fan of mythic plus. Like I said the tank wouldn’t mount, and the overgeared (620+) fury warrior got impatient and started pulling, then we wiped on the first boss. I was just impatient as well, I thought it would be a quick key. Everyone I brought was 600+ ilvl, I was on 610 ret pally. Like I said I did feel bad a little later on about it, I don’t usually leave keys unless someone else leaves. Just a bad day I guess and it didn’t go how I wanted. My own fault for forming a random pug. I didn’t expect a massive pull to the first spider, but I didn’t expect the tank not to mount then pull the small packs one at a time, then the warrior to start pulling for him. Our healer was geared out as well (619) and the tank I believe was 608.

[@ThomasBachler01]

@@BuddyguyBret I think this is actually the reason for a big portion of negative behaviors in lower key. People have done the content on a higher level with their main and carry their expectation from that into the lower levels for their alts. But I am glad you are self-reflected and thought about it. I know it was just a bad day and bad days happen to all of us, but would you say that a +2 is an ok place for that tank to learn or do you think he should have stuck to HC and M0s for that?

[@StephenKary]

What you say at the beginning about YT hiding comments, is this why I always get notifications of people replying to me and then there's nothing?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Probably.

[@tek512]

Most of the leavers I've seen were in fact the ones causing the very problems many of them claim to be trying to escape from. Bad pull? Well, there's an odds on chance the dude that just ragequit was in fact the one that caused it. Spells getting through and wasting the healer? There's an odds on chance I'll check my meter and find out that person just wasn't interrupting.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

100 percent. Its usually a defense mechanism.

[@seangraham184]

I like your content because of your perspective and mindset. I don't do M+ because I'm just not built like that. But I want to know if you agree with my theory: Some players care more about a fun play experience than they care about progression. In other words, if they double-upgrade a key but they feel bad about how they got there, then they think it was a bad run, even though they got objectively positive rewards for their trouble. Which is why I don't do pugs -- I care about the journey more than the destination, and because I'm in such a tiny minority, there's just nowhere for me to land.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You are right, but there is another layer to it too. People do care about fun more than success, but to them "fun" is their ego being inflated. They have fun being the top dps and playing in a way that most people might think is indicative that they only care about themselves. In terms of your position, don't feel like you are in the minority. There are a LOT of players out there who agree with you and me on this. They just have been pushed out by the loud belligerent players. Its time to flip that on its head and take back the game we love.

[@anthonysmith9475]

as someone who likes ro pug all of my keys, I often list my onw. recently, we were trying to finish my own 9 grim batol that was a farm key for me. The group was insufferable, dps doing 500k , as the healer leader, I called it and left the key and proceeded to be met with whispers of them reporting me. Im sorry but the key was untimed before 2nd boss was down, - this is the sort of instance where i can see blizzard looking at the situation and siding with the leaver (key ender)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Sounds like it would only be sided with IF everyone agreed to stop OR ignored by Blizzard if it doesn't happen often. If you are worried about it past that, please consider vetting your group more properly, or simply just chilling out a bit. 500k is fine for 9, and you were not going to be over the time of that dungeon just because of him. Another good option is for your to record your runs and send them in, and then we can give unbiased opinions on whether it was justified or not. Well others can. Obviously you already know my opinion on this.

[@bobbilling1075]

I feel that somewhat. Sometimes people are overtly bad. 500k in a 9 is indeed terrible. Even for a tank that dps isn’t great. 0:00 on timer before a second boss I mean yeah people should call it there

[@nickbrown2328]

"Imagine how stupid the average person is then realize half of all people are stupider than that". Idk what year Carlin originally said that but seeing as he died 15 years ago, and I firmly believe the curve has moved further left in the range of dumb smart since he originally said it, especially in the realm of critical thinking and troubleshooting. And there is this weird phenomenon today with people's egos in video games and streaming culture. People are often out of whack with reality where people watch rank 1 players stream and think that they are just as good as said streamers - when they are far from that skill level. You couple these things together and you have the commenters in this video.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

haha ya it really is a strange thing!

[@Frawt]

To be fair, Metro, I didn't write my comment just to say something that you'd agree with (which is a weird point you keep bringing up), or keep myself from commenting because it's something you've "addressed before" or something I knew you'd disagree with from seeing your past videos. I still occasionally feel compelled to point out my own perspective on the internet, even if I know the person I'm directly replying to won't take it in or sufficiently mull on it and/or just disagrees with it fundamentally, and thus the comment won't really "have a point". None of us can personally go and change the video game ourselves anyway, so you sharing your (and all of us sharing our) perspective(s) to the world is technically "meaningless". We're all just commenters sharing our opinions, to you AND to each other ('cause it's not your personal inbox, it's a public comments section after all), fostering discussion whether we convince anybody of our viewpoints or not. That's just...how human discourse works. Also, you're strawmanning the last paragraph a bit with the whole "obviously Blizzard is doing more than JUST banning people". Fact of the matter is, keystone depletion and its overarching effect on Mythic+ as a whole has been the exact same since I started actively playing WoW in 8.3. New affixes and dungeon pool rotation changes matter so very little to the "core" issues Mythic+ has...and they've had those issues for at least, what, 4 years? Literally the whole point is to advocate for a better system as a whole. Banning people for leaving solves very little, and will mostly just end with the banned getting pissed and the other people in their keys still wasting their time, and maybe getting a vague "yeah we banned someone from some key you were in recently, thanks for reporting". Obviously the vindication feels nice and you can tie a little frilly bow on top of your sense of "justice", but...I dunno, those situations always end up feeling hollow (and very short-lived) to me, and don't really achieve anything in the long term anyway. Altogether, meh. I just want Mythic+ and Blizzard to be better. I think people are just overhyping other people getting banned over demanding the system in general being better. Banning serial leavers will not make any of my friends who've quit doing keys this season come back, and it won't change the 12 wall that some mole people can't seem to cross, and it won't decrease the amount of people I see on Twitter crying about "queue simulator". In fact, it'll make the last thing almost surely worse. I'm holding any praise until they start fixing the rotten foundation. (Also, I'll forgive the nonsensical "if you want to conversate on this channel, please use commas and periods" comment, 'cause I do use commas and periods - perhaps a bit TOO liberally, if anything - because I DO tend to ramble, and get into run-on sentences occasionally. I get it, not good content really for reading out in a video, but I don't take that into consideration when I go off on one of my meandering harangues. Oh well.) With all that said, keep up the great content. At the end of the day, very few people in the world can say they know someone that they agree with on EVERYTHING, and that's fine.

[@jewishjojo]

That was a long ass sentence

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, good point at the end there for sure. Thanks for being respectful always!

[@danbacon8387]

It's insane the lengths people go through to justify their selfishness lol, I never sign up to a pug that has a leader I wouldn't invite, solves most of the problems. If you join a key with a good leader, see someone 1000io lower they're clearly helping someone, if you don't wanna help, leave before the key starts. Why is that so hard for people

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, just a bunch of nonsense excuses all to pretend like they can't possible be a better teammate. Its embarrassing.

[@moargr4yons]

@@heythereguysitsMetro i have a feeling part of it is these people seem to think that people never have irl friends they bring into the game, and that everyone is a stranger like them. some people who play this game legitimately need to go outside and touch grass.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@moargr4yons That's probably true to be honest. When you never actually make a single friend but you are surrounded by people, its no wonder this happens.

[@alexanderjansson228]

I've had a substantial amount of people leave our +10 weekly keys (usually before the key starts) because we've got a 600 ilvl friend, while the rest of the group is 3300 players, timing 16 keys. Because "they don't want to carry anyone" People actually seem to think u need 5 competent players for a +10. We usually end up 2 chesting or 3 chesting the runs with one player severly underperforming. It is crazy to me, the amount of deflection and coping people go through to protect their ego and the delusion, thinking they play perfect and other circumstances are preventing them from succeeding

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, either insane ego, or insanely unskilled players.

[@marcell_22]

There was a run where a shaman decided not even to leave but to just run around and not do anything because of some idea he had about the key not going perfect in a +10 weekly alt run. I just kicked him mid run to get rid of the annoyance and the 4 of us finished the key in time.

[@moargr4yons]

@@heythereguysitsMetro i'm at 1:13:44 right now. this avinion guy needs some serious mental help. all of this reads like someone who has some very serious mental issues, and he needs help bad. it isn't really funny anymore reading his comments, it just leaves me concerned.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@moargr4yons ya that dude is scary. I say that a lot but that dude isn't right.

[@Frawt]

Yeah, I haaaaate people like that. I push on my main on my own, but I have decent number of alts, and with a lot of them, I get around to doing all 11s or so, and then I just do weeklies to gear ('cause vault dopamine hits hard). I've done 10s (and even below 10s) before with friends who have just started gearing an alt etc, and it is insane how many people we have invited, who then just leave the group, and when I PM them, they say something to the effect of "I don't want to carry". Like, fair enough, I guess, I'm not holding you hostage, but I don't get it. I ENJOY helping friends in lower keys than I usually do, not just because they're my friend, but also exactly because it just gives me a chance to carry and just have fun decimating packs on my own. I can understand this for tanks and/or healers, I guess, but it's also usually other DPS players who do this, which just baffles me. A lot of WoW players are so hung up the numbers on their characters (rio score and/or item level) and they seem to have no personal, like...ambition for themselves and how well they play the game.

[@Dirtbaghealer]

WOW!!! I've been really into deadlock and warframe lately, but when I saw this title my jaw dropped. I NEVER thought Blizzard would take action like this. Huge W for them.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya me too honestly!

[@Edgo12]

It is largely when doing lower keys to either grind crests required for levelling gear or when gearing alts.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right, and those keys are so easy it should never be an issue.

[@Edgo12]

@heythereguysitsMetro yeah well that's right but unfortunately there is a lot of bad players out there. Also there is no issues leaving a key because of incompetent players as blizz only banned some players that were deliberately and intentionally bricking keys to troll people many many times. Nothing to do with leaving a key because of players causing excessive wipes ect.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That isn't true! Stay tuned for the video coming today. It will be live in 30 minutes from now.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Edgo12 Did you end up seeing it? here is the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnrTdIuveZt_n5o

[@thelastspectre8141]

Btw unless you are on the same server you can't trade gold or anything other then the items that drop

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@thelastspectre8141 no they changed that a while back.

[@thelastspectre8141]

@heythereguysitsMetro oh, well I haven't tried since I couldn't lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@thelastspectre8141 Ya, I believe the last patch of Dragonflight was when they did that.

[@kaliyvga1426]

all this coming from a guy who was piurposefuly griefing keys with basically afking in a dungeon for CONTENT on his aug evoker, yes, it is you metro

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I've done way worse than that. You just are too stupid to realize that making an argument based on me taking some actions once hypocritical to this doesn't make me wrong about any of it. Do you ever think about why that is? That 99 percent of people agree that this is good for the game but you are desperately reaching for any possible point to make you feel more right? I think if you took some time to read these comments you'd feel pure embarrassment.

[@kaliyvga1426]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Bad players like this system, good players don't. Simple

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

​@@kaliyvga1426 Good players don't pug, so it doesn't impact them at all. Really, just another stupid statement made by you. You'd think you'd learn to give up already. Your vapid points are not impressing anyone here.

[@anthonyk9474]

I think ultimately, I go into a key and do some research (looked at other group members IO and experience and gear) and make an educated decision on if the run is going to go well and I decide to stay or leave. Sometimes that can be tricky as I have seen many high IO players underperform in dungeons and some people will advertise an 8 (when I’m just trying to farm easy crests) and then say oops it’s actually a 10 before they start the key to get a free carry. After that I will apply my own little strike system. A strike will be for example, ok we wiped to the first pull (does not mean I leave the key), but I make note of it and try to see real quickly what the issue was (Looking at healing, interrupts etc.). If we wipe to a boss, is it because damage was low, failing mechanics etc. If multiple instances of this happen and I can see that timewise it is not looking good, I will then decide to leave. I have never left after one wipe. I believe that I should give every group a fair chance before I leave. For the record, I usually am never the first person to leave the dungeon anyway, someone else usually will do it before I leave but I just wanted to give my thought process on the matter. I’m a 2700 IO player trying to push 12’s atm. I think another factor is that we pay to play the game, enjoying the game holds a lot of value and if people want to leave because they aren’t enjoying a M+ run, should have the right to do so (within reason of course). Keep fighting the good fight metro, I enjoy the streams 😊 just wanted to give my 2 cents.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Thanks for leaving your thoughts.

[@CoreyDowning]

i have to applaud that you actually went through and read and replied to these comments. this mostly just makes me sad because i was reading about illiteracy rates last week 😂 i do have a story of the wildest dungeon of this season so far for me. a month or so ago, i am running some keys on an alt i had just started, so was tanking a 7 mists. trash pack before the first boss the demon hunter dies. he gets a res but doesn’t seem to accept it and while i am typing out a question, mage says he’s been afk the whole key. i offer up that we just 4 man it because we clearly have the damage and the rest of the group is solid and we agree. this was the demon hunter’s key that he put in and then went afk. throughout the dungeon he manages to reappear every few minutes and IMMEDIATELY die, often in spectacular ways because how else do you die in a 7? on second boss he kept trying to bait the fox into melee and murdered our healer once with it but he finally died to dodgeball. around this time the mage chimes in that the dh should just stay afk, we were doing better without him. we keep going, he keeps dying, at this point closing in on double digit deaths for himself. then on the last boss he eventually wipes us because he just stayed glued to me during mind link no matter what i did. we told him he had to run away with it, we kill it on the next attempt even though he tried to stay glued to me. we barely did not time the key in the end but i did get a funny story out of it and i guess it is possible, though difficult, for a dps to really bomb a run but a 15 second death timer penalty seems to have really done them a favor in that respect.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That's a wild one. Would have been a good one to record and send in!

[@0h7even]

I logged onto my mage and my repair cost is currently 895 gold. I repaired at least twice yesterday. I play on 8 toons. Over an entire season, hundreds of thousands of gold sounds pretty accurate.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

100s of thousands EXTRA because of wiping in low keys, to be clear.

[@LordCartmanGaming]

with 8 toons you should be able to afford that by playing the AH and farming mats, crafting stuff etc.

[@jurgenbuntinx1]

we did an ohnara plains +20, overtimer 1 hrs just because of last boss, bcs tank would die to the thunder storm twirls... eventually the healer left, because they were blaming him for not healing the tank

[@jurgenbuntinx1]

also did a siege +8 yesterday, and people didnt even know how to do the first boss, warlock was just running circles not going to any of the bombs, warlock dies then the tank gets fixated and dies bcs he also doesnt know what to do, this happened 3 times in a row... i aint gonna stay in a key like that.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

And you feel like that happens enough that you might be banned over it?

[@bobbobbers7486]

Thank you!! How the hell am i supposed to learn the keys if no one is running low keys like under 5 and ive timed every key now but the amount of times i got things like "????" "wtf are you doing" as a healer when its like im sorry i died once in a +5 that im learning in as if its a 0.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya, well that's a whole different topic, but a big issue for sure. People need to be more patient and let people learn at their own pace.

[@Bensiano96]

Love these videos btw

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Bensiano96 well I'm glad you feel that way because I certainly love giving my thoughts on stuff hahaha

[@Bensiano96]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Just deciding what to do next season for raiding, to be dps or tank, im more thinking of going dps

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@Bensiano96 try a few things!

[@klinckster]

Well lets be real here, this new leaver ban system will get people to learn the dungos which in time increases everyone's mythic key quality in the end. Back in the day people knew all the dungos a month or two in because leaving was so frowned upon, so everyone had to learn why they are dieing and avoid it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

well said!

[@DonJinx]

The main problem of m+ is the gap between dungeon levels. It's too low and people don't have time to study them before reaching lv +10. There are many online guides pack by pack which explains mechanics of the dungeon but most of the player base on lower key don't watch them thinking that they will learn the hard way which sometimes brick the keys (I'm talking about 7-10 lv keys). I'm a dps and tank player (pugging since BFA) and I always do massive research online by watching online guides to better understand the dungeon mechanics. One of the best examples of you having to learn dungeons mechanics is necrotic wake. Once I was with pug group which didn't know how to play 3rd boss. I decided that I will spear my time to explain to the rest of the group how it should be done. We spent 20 min on it, and it didn't help because players didn't understand timing of the mechanics. Today I was with my hunter friend whom never was on necrotic wake lv +10. He was shocked when Blightbone cast Heaving Retch and one shot him because he didn't use his defensive, and he said that this never happened to him on lv +9. Of cores some people are assholes and leave for stupid reasons but ask your self one simple question... how much time did you spend on learning dungeon mechanics before you even started doing them... I'm doing a lot m+ on my alts to gear them up, and I have seen a lot of shit happening in the keys because someone didn't want to spend some time to learn the basic mechanic... oh and don't let me start on interrupts.... people on 3-7 don't even use them...

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

This is not even REMOTELY the main issue, and I think the way you lay it out proves that. The "main issue" is that people are unwilling to let other people learn their own way and make mistakes and try to recover from them. Your examples betray you on this. You are suggesting that a 7-10 necrotic wake featured an entire group that didn't know they have to hook the boss? What does that have to do with timing? It sounds more likely to me that what was happening was they were overwhelmed with the fight and didn't know where and when to stand, so they weren't able to prepare for it properly. This is a function of them not having real in-game experience. You can watch a video or read a guide saying "hook the boss" but until you do it and see how it plays out for yourself, with your CDs and spells, you wont know how to prepare for it. Same thing about the first boss. He may have never done it on Tyrannical, then did it on 10 and it was far more dangerous than expected. You aren't going to learn these things from a guide. They NEED to go in, make mistakes, and learn from them. You being impatient with that process just indicates you aren't fit for pugging. Play with a static group that shares your value, and you wont have any issues.

[@DonJinx]

@@heythereguysitsMetro First of all I'm not quitting dungeons because each dungeon is a new lesson for me what can go wrong, what I'm able to pull and what my group is able to handle. And yeah I agree with you on learning from your own mistake, but maybe ask your self this question: are you ready to go on higher key if the game is overwhelming you? Maybe do 10 key in raw on lower level with different affixes and feel comfortable about your game play before you go on higher keys. Maybe you don't fit to do higher keys when game overwhelms you. Only with hard work you can succeed. It's not like you gone end elementary school and go straight to college and everything will be ok... And that's how pugging looks right now... Besides, where are the rules written how pugging should look like? How much time should I spend with one group in one m+ which is learning to be fitted for pugging? RIO system is rigged these days, and you can't separate player who are learning from players whom already learn the basic of dungeon, and that's the main problem (gap between dungeon levels). Your logic with someone not fitting for pugging is a double edge sword... some people are not meant to do higher keys, and maybe they don't fit in them? I like your content Metro and I watch it from time to time since shadowlands when I wanted to start tanking with my DK. Unfortunately, I can't agree with you on that topics because the problem is on both sides. But still, I will come and watch your video. Cheers m8!

[@contrariankairos9845]

I fully agree on your position. Instant leavers are unacceptable and something has to be done. If you sign for a Pug it means you basically accept the remote possibility that the key might take 1h30 and be horrible. If you want to avoid that, play only in organized groups. This said, there is a specific type of situation where i consider leaving could be acceptable. Since BFA, it happened to me maybe 4 or 5 times so it is rare but it is impactful (I clearly remember a rogue in Underrot BFA and a Shaman in Plaguefall) . It is when someone is constantely insulting you from the first pull to the last. I play tank so I am used to be bashed once in a while and I usually ignore it but when it is constant it becomes stressful and completely ruin any pleasure you can have with the game. I don´t play to get stressed, so in those specific cases I apologized to the other players and just leave. For me, that kind of toxic players are worse than leavers.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I actually did leave a key myself over that type of player back in Legion. But luckily its so rare, it just doesn't factor in. The rest, we agree on for sure. If you pug, you sign up for chaos here and there.

[@contrariankairos9845]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I agree with you that it is very rare but it has such an impact on people who are victim of it. I think one guy doing that is 10 times more detrimental to Mythic + than a leaver. It is one thing to loose a key bc of a guy who quit without a word, it is another thing to be bullied. One of my friend just quit the game a few years ago just bc it happened to him once saying the community was awful. I personnaly don´t tolerate that wether it is me who is targeted or another member of the group (the question he "deserves" critics or not is not the point). Staying quiet when the healer or a dps is targeted is not acceptable either.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@contrariankairos9845 well the thing is that's already bannable. But it would have to happen more than once for the guy to be actioned. Some times people just are in a bad mood or something. But obviously you can report that and move on.

[@Goodknight025]

Hello, New sub here. I hope you read this comment and react to it because i have a different thought than most. I only started leaving keys a little bit in the most recent expansion. I never wanted to leave groups willingly but as it became more accepted by the community at large I did so more and more. If the key was going to fail some one was just going to leave anyway, turns out I was correct 9 times out of 10. So I ended up starting to leave to save myself time. What I'm trying to say is this announcement has been a blessing for me because I prefer not to leave ever but was pressured (for lack of a better term) into by the community wide accepted behavior. Since the announcement I've done quite a few keys and it has been much more fun. My pug teams have not had any leavers. I am happy people Including myself will be encouraged to play as a team once more.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Very unique perspective, but glad to hear you have found this working out better.

[@Skuggi88]

vote to stop is probably the way to go honestly

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It would be, I just don't know that its an easy implementation.

[@ScopeSV]

Great content as always. Thanks big guy!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Thanks!

[@westloves]

I was just in a key where we hit a wall with a certain boss fight. We all communicated in chat and agreed to try it a few more times, then we all Decided to disband because it wasn’t going well. That’s literally all you have to do, leaving without saying a word is dumb.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@westloves ya doesn't take much to just communicate a bit.

[@ThomasBachler01]

Am I curious which boss was it? I would bet on CoT or SV, but there are a few other choices too.

[@westloves]

@@ThomasBachler01 yep CoT

[@christopherdaffron8115]

As you have said, Blizzard has been very quiet about the issue of toxic behavior by players in Mythic+ PUGs since pretty much the inception of Mythic+ eight years ago. Sure, Blizzard is FINALLY responding to it with the threat of bans due to chronic bad behavior in Mythic+ PUGs, but Blizzard NEEDS to explain why they took so long and how are they going to monitor this going forward. Blizzard's first definitive response to toxic player behavior in Mythic+ does NOT wipe away their previous eight years of silence!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well I can see your point on that, but you aren't going to strongarm them into doing it lol

[@christopherdaffron8115]

@@heythereguysitsMetro OK replace the word "Needs" with "Should". Is that better?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@christopherdaffron8115 It is, but either way, I was just saying that I am satisfied.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Well I am not satisfied obviously. So, if Blizzard never makes another post about it for the next eight years, you will be OK with it?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@christopherdaffron8115 No obviously I would not be satisfied if another 8 years this problem never gets addressed again lol. I'm just saying that its over now, so I don't really feel bitter about it.

[@MurrMurrProductions]

1 hour and 20 minutes of pure cinema. I can't believe it's actual people responding like this. They put more effort and energy in posting hate comments instead of using that time usefully... So much for "i don't want to waste time, i have shit to do", lmao...Yea right in the KZbin comments of all places..

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Love that perspective. They don't have time to waste in keys, but have plenty of time to make fools of themselves in KZbin.

[@TheUnderJaker]

i dont understand why people think their time and life is more valuable than others. its pure narcissism. its so weird. most good players dont talk like these people do. youre a pretty good example, you rarely if ever trash some one that may not be good as you, or make mistakes. its a really weird dynamic to this game.

[@schmidth]

People get ego just cause they are 3/8M 1 month into a patch, I never invite those pseudo bigshots. The actual bigshot RWF raiders I've played with are all humble, nice guys

[@Chris-hw9vv]

My time is valueble. Period. If you want to stick 60+ mins in a bricked Key. Ok you do you. But i wont. Pugging is done for me.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, just low IQ stuff tbh. You can tell the people who have actual well adjusted lives, because they can at least explain their position. Those guys who can't aren't worth listening to.

[@hugofreitas6799]

To be fair good players dont have these problems, leaver and stuff like that are a thing of lower keys. I think i have seen less them 5 leavers this srason and i have morr them 150 dg runs on my main. Not counting bricking pushing keys wen we all know we failed and its time to go.

[@TheUnderJaker]

@@hugofreitas6799 exactly lmao. all the people that are complaining are the actual problems in these dungeons. ive dropped back a few times to do a 4-5-6-7-8 range keys for multiple reasons. and i play well and no one ever leaves. its these people hes replying to that are bad, think thye are god tier, and leave. when they actually are not

[@narutonibiforever]

These guy comments are full on unhinged. Its crazy how you have to explain the initial post over and over because people cant read, take it personal, and pop off. Thank you for your patience and constant entertainment. We literally had a guy leave a 7 key because he was lagging. We told him to stay anyway. Timed the key. And i assure you he didnt get banned. These people need divine intervention. 🤦‍♀️

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha ya its really strange all around!

[@beebeemw]

I’m just replying to the Joakim57 guy, because I started playing healer in season 4 dragon flight and I’ve only had one negative comment towards me as a healer. I don’t really understand why so many people are getting flamed as healer because I just don’t see it. I’ve recorded most my runs this season as well and have had zero toxic comments all season. I also play on eu where apparently it’s worse for this type of behaviour. Yes I’ve had some bad runs where we don’t time keys but I’ve never been blamed for it, usually someone just leaves and that’s it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, its exceedingly rare. This guy likely is not playing Disc, an already hard spec, very well at all, and is doing or saying something that stands out past that. If he is being targeted like this, its not the normal thing that happens in keys.

[@dylan_myers]

Really good video Metro, one thing I noticed is that people keep bringing up the argument of going into lower keys for crests or to farm a specific item and then complaining they are trash players and don't care about leaving said group. If they chose to join a pug group at a lower level considering the skill in the group may not be as high, then in my opinion they should stay and finish the key but judging by some of the comments in the video they don't seem intelligent enough to think of that.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya well these are the people too stupid to realize that you still get more crests an hour staying in a failed timer than hopping from group to group trying to upgrade keys only. I never even IMAGINED we would be talking about keys that easy honestly. I couldn't even conceive of this level of bad play by then.

[@danielgpmarques]

I love the fact that the beginning of your comment analysis was fearmongering ppl into not leaving to not jeopardize their account, and i think that's exactly what blizzard did by announcing this without any criteria for the suppose "ban". It´s funny that its probably more than enough to stop ppl from leaving keys for sport. Loving it, even thou, as you also mention on some other videos, this was a problem blizzard created with the death penalty, and they refuse to back-paddle on it for some reason.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I think they will get rid of the death thing. Just not in the middle of the season. That would REALLY upset things given we have an MDI and a Great Push.

[@AmandaPelland]

Finished viewing the video, so good Metro! I'm glad to see you're standing your ground.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Thanks, ya some one has to haha

[@Heyitsfreddy]

This is the BEST popcorn content. Just hysterical seeing the delusion people have - and utter dismantling Metro does to their core arguments.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha glad you enjoy it!

[@kingsargonii6939]

I've tanked a 10+ SOB as a 3man with a Ret and Holy Paladin as a Protection Paladin because they asked me to stay for vault. Would of easily been timed if the 2 DPS didn't leave.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right and example like that are all you need to see to realize that anyone talking about failing one a single boss for an hour is lying.

[@kingsargonii6939]

@ a lot of lying and bringing up a 0.01% situation to justify their argument.

[@intimateshadow]

I never been the first to leave a M+ , not leaving a M+ ruined my Thanksgiving and got everyone mad at me. Im a gamer for life 😎

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha well prioritize family! You will miss them some day, take it from me.

[@Loviekinz]

1:07:11 Your ignorance is amazing. You know who would want to stay in the key? The guy doing 300k DPS. The guy who will report you is the scrub who you don't want to play with. The BAD PLAYERS will be the ones making the reports. They will threaten and report you if you don't carry them

[@ThomasBachler01]

If you find a player doing 300k dps then I am 99% certian that he/she does not know how to report anybody - so I think we are safe.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

No, you are just a moron. There is never a person doing 300k DPS, and if there IS, the other 4 people would immediately agree to end the key.

[@FlippyDipDipper]

I was waiting for this.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It was inevitable!

[@patrickzaluski6229]

I feel like a lot of the people who think this is a bad system are a significant percentage of players that were carried to their score, and now they are being held to account. Metro for the most part is right about the bulk of what is going on. Did my first +11(COT) on my pally this season, was overtime by 4 min but all players stuck it out, despite both the tank and I (guildie)in coms assuming that the next death would cause the leave. At only 618ilvl i questioned my Tank's decision to bring me, at the time i hadn't done higher than an 8. So imho this will be a win in the long run for the community as a whole. For the record, i am guilty of leaving, when it happens its because I have underestimated the time it should take to finish and i have to leave for work.

[@patrickzaluski6229]

also still seeing a pile of players that haven't even stepped foot in the dungeon at m0 and have no idea of mechanics

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, 100 percent agreed there.

[@trancer03]

Bro there is dungeon/boss mechanics, also on low keys, and if you dont do them, you wipe and brick the key, most people doing lets say 10's are also not super outgearing the 10's so it matters if they do the mechanics, the others are not going to carry for example the healer being crap or a tank overpulling. As for why people are pugging? Pugging is the only way most people can run keys

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

10s are not an example to use, because many people are farming them for vault, so no reason to care if they are overtime or not. But either way, low keys in general do not punish wipes enough for it to matter. Have a browse through the comments to see the dozens of replies corroborating that. My challenge to anyone saying otherwise is to find me a key with single digit deaths and no real error and that the timer is also tight in a 10 or lower. That's the thing here, that if you ONLY care about timing keys, you first need to prove that any of this actually matters when it comes to the timer.

[@Frosti1338]

We need more "Metro reacts to comments", love it!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Frosti1338 thanks! I usually only do it when I feel like there are a lot of comments that I can't fully put to rest with text alone.

[@farrantly]

"you say that to me and I am immediately checked out" I feel this is where the criticisms are coming from. If a discussion is looking to be promoted, you need to accept people may say things you feel are not 100% correct.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I was not reacting to something that "I feel is not 100 percent correct" though. I was reacting to the way it was being stated, as if I was not adequately knowledgeable about this situation.

[@LoiusYates]

this is the first season I really fear playing with noobs because I want to avoid the repair bills (700-1000 after a few deaths) when end of dungeon gives 50.. so I blame blizzard honestly so one wipe I leave because from my experience if a group wipes it will lead to more wipes and deaths. just how it is

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Cool, well if you keep doing it, be warned, you may be banned for 7 days! The better solution is probably to just stop pugging honestly. Less wipes, less repairs, and no chance of being banned. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

[@Rune__]

I have never left a key as the first person 🙅🏼‍♀️ It’s due to how I was raised. I always want to help out others, and I don’t have a Toxic bone in my body. But I also only do all the Mythics on key 10. I haven’t tried high keys before.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear that!

[@FragMaster93]

The bans shouldn't be in the game as reasonable players should be self selecting without being arseholes, the problem is the community as a whole has shown it can't be trusted and will abuse the system and unfortunately the whole group has to be punished. The same happened with loot you're expected to not whine or steal loot and even though it was fine for a lot of organised groups who get along but the problem was prevalent enough that they removed master loot and all were affected and the good eggs are inconvenienced while the bad eggs can't continue .

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly, the community continues to be the worst part about wow.

[@oneman9620]

I think it’s great that blizzard is banning the intentional griefers, big win. At the same time they want to discourage people who leave keys for selfish reasons. This is also good. But I, as a person who never leaves m+ runs, wonder how they will determine what is normal and not when it comes to push keys specifically. Sometimes people express agreement in the chat that it’s over, but sometimes noone says a word even though everyone is thinking the same thing. I guess we will have to wait and see if any player who pushes keys all day long every day gets banned or not. My hope is that they will have it under control.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Sounds like its purely about volume. Got a video with proof of a ban coming today, in an hour from this comment being posted!

[@AmandaPelland]

It's a KZbin issue comments being deleted, just Google it people. This is awesome Metro, a video over an hour long on this topic, sweet!!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@AmandaPelland glad you enjoyed it!

[@deenman23]

my guild master said 3 people from another guild got banned for this,i can try and look in to it more and get some proof,but seems like its true

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Any proof would be amazing, even if its just testimonial from those players.

[@ThomasBachler01]

is the guild still doing farm raid by any chance? Seems like an excellent excuse to not do farm particularly if you wanted to start playing classic fresh as a group of 3 🙂

[@FMGHarlequin]

What I find strange talking to people who "fear" the ban, is they are envision this scenario where they cannot leave "hours" into a key. Ok, I'll concede that "hours" is too long... but how about keep trying until the timer is up?? If you sign up for a 32 minute timer key, then you owe that leader a minimum of 32 minutes. I'd imagine anyone (including blizzard) thinks that it's reasonable leave after a wipe AFTER the timer is depleated. Just say something like "Good effort everyone, but sorry, I have to go now." The person signing up must respect the group's time while the timer is running; but on the other side, I think it's reasonable to expect the leader should respect the group's time once that timer is depleated. That seems fair to me.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Totally agree with the concept of owing 32 minutes. I can also agree that respect all around should be given. My only quibble is that the group leader is the only one to lose a key, so if he wants to finish and its over time, you should at least CONSIDER that. I don't expect everyone to do it, but this idea that its totally unreasonable to spend a second more in the key than you think you should is utter disrespect. The way I always ask it is, if I, a stranger to you, asked you for a favor when we are on the same team, and that favor might take 5-10 minutes of your time, would you consider it? You can learn a LOT about people based on how they answer that question.

[@FMGHarlequin]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I wonder if blizzard is also looking at what people list the key under. In game you can select "Beat Timer" or "Completion" as a sub-heading when listing your key. I think if the key is listed as completion then leaving at 32 :01 is certainly disrespectful. It would be nice if that Goal drop down actually started to mean something within the PUG community. But yeah, I'm like you in that, once the key starts I'll keep running it out to completion. I've got my share of 200+ death 90+ timer keys. But its wild that some people feel like EVERY key is going to turn into this.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@FMGHarlequin ya they are just liars and trying to make up reasons it's okay to be a scumbag. Been seeing it since legion when the first leavers starting happening.

[@sirdiealott]

If you are doing 10s for vault, what do you even care if you time the key? Go over 20 minutes you still get the vault slot.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@sirdiealott great point. I didn't even think about bringing that up haha

[@ThomasBachler01]

Because they care about perception and about punishing other players. They play these keys to blast and have fun, so if they believe that any other player is standing in their way of blasting or having fun, then they leave to punish that player and also to demonstrate that this key means nothing to them, because it is easy and they can get into those all the time.

[@prod.bygygahurts304]

Absolutely love this content. Keep em coming king 🍿

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@prod.bygygahurts304 thanks a lot!

[@francis9060]

Hello Metro!, I'm a big fan of your videos. I've been surprised by some of your attitudes, but I suppose I also make mistakes. Maybe I misunderstood or simply interpreted it differently. For any personal attack, I apologize. To be honest, I didn't watch the entire video, but I did laugh at the parts where my comments appeared. Honestly, it was hard for me to express myself in another language haha. The truth is, it was a heated debate, but I don't agree with insulting people's intelligence or personal attacks. I think we can all live in harmony if we understand each other better! Just to clarify, I agree with the basics: people with toxic behavior in keys SHOULD be expelled. However, I'm not clear about the system to use. I think there's a thin line between making unjustified expulsions. What I meant in my comment about SIEGE was that, even though the group leader asked us if we wanted to leave and gave us permission to leave, he reported me to my guild leader and insulted me because the key was broken. I think that highlights how dangerous a ban system based on some WoW users can be. Regarding some of your comments: - I don't agree that the group leader should decide when the key is dead; it should be a more group-based vote. - I don't agree that every player who leaves a broken key should be banned. There may be many factors involved. Finally, if any point was misunderstood, my apologies. I also think we should all moderate ourselves. I'm more than happy to discuss, with respect, on Discord. I think it's a very interesting debate. For this occasion, I used AI to translate my message, and I think I speak better than I write in English haha. My respects and greetings to the community!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

If you wanna discuss this further let me know when you are free for a discord call.

[@Dom-zy1qy]

Did Blizz ever release any data mentioning the number of people that were punished? The original post they made seemed pretty brief for something that should've been a pretty big deal. Would be funny if they just posted that to fuck with people in hopes they stop on their own accord.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh no, this is pretty standard too. They don't want to draw a ton of attention to it.

[@HeIIaAverage]

I don't take issue with people whispering people who leave and telling them it's unacceptable. Aa long as it's also ok to say something to people that do tank dmg and dont interrupt, use defensives, or any utility. Those same people have to also be willing to accept that feedback if they expect the leavers to listen theirs and consider it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well its not about accepting it or anything like that. Its about HEARING it. Like I said, these guys do these things and walk away scott free thinking they did nothing wrong. If some one does very low damage, the egos in this game will NEVER let them NOT hear about it, right?

[@noxyoshi]

Hard to whisper people who alt+f4 and rage quit after messing up during a key XD. But I understand your point.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

That's very rare in my experience, but ya you can't message everyone obviously.

[@Misanthropy_7]

I died at "I'm not wipefesting for hours in a mythic+ pug... You're right, nobody is."

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

lol

[@Gemazarus]

This is a problem of Blizzards making. They took away the social aspect of the game. The modern gamer changed. The game didn't change with them. Players that leave keys this way need to be punished. But Blizz needs to implement a safe system. I'm hugely in favour of a "Vote to end Key" system. If 4/5 players vote to end the key, then it should end, with NO depletion. Anyone that leaves outside of this system should be punished with a stacking Deserter Debuff that resets if they finish a key the same level as what they abandoned. Every stakeholder wins in this situation.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I do think a soloQ is coming. I agree that Blizzard could have done more and that will help, but in reality this is purely a social issue that everyone should recognize is controllable within themselves.

[@Gemazarus]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Agree. As the comments and the reality of the situation show us over and over again, it's unfortunately asking too much of the modern gamer. They want their rewards RIGHT NOW. With as little effort as possible too. It's how they've been trained. I just hope Blizz can come up with a fair system the benefits everybody. Although I am sceptical. As you rightly say, I think Blizz intend M+ not to be PUG content. If this is the case, they need to commit to it fully.

[@exiiesaid8004]

People can be so dang stupid. This is amazing for the M+ community! TWW brought us (in my opinion) some great changes to how Mythics work and now they are cracking down on the people that ruin group content for others at end game. How can you be upset about these changes?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

The only people who are are people it might ban it seems.

[@Scrolling_Shorts2night]

I had a tank leave because I (rdruid) put a "?" after he pulled a bit too much for the level of that group, it obviously went bad lead to multiple deaths and a wipe. Not that big of a deal it was still timeable, I was genuinely curious what was the plan with that. He just called the group trash and left. *shrug* ... Could be one of those situations when they might have felt embarrassed, or just full on living in delulu and blaming everyone and instantly giving up.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya who knows. Record the runs and send in the crazy stuff!

[@Vrg-d8d]

Seen that happen way too many times. Seems that tanks most of the time are the most toxic ones. I had an prot warr in 12siege dying at the pack after first boss blaming me even tough i used sac on him, healed him for 19m on that pull and even put lay on hands on him before he died. He still fell over. Called me worst healer ever and left. All the dps was like” omg what crappy tank” and all 3 of them told that i was best heals for a while 😁 some tanks have ”im above everyone” syndrome just because of their role. But also when i have been alting ive seen some healers do the same, so these more ”special” roles tend to have this kind of tendency i can tell. DPS most of the time are more humble even tough their job is pretty easy.

[@Kaaosification]

Best practice is honestly to not to start even a slight bit of drama during a key you are still committed to complete. A simple "?" which really serves no purpose in making the rest of the run smoother can cause someone who is already annoyed (perhaps just to him-/herself) to get seriously pissed

[@Artivle]

You are cut from a different cloth than I to be able to continue to have conversations with people like this, keep sticking to your guns man these people are loud but they're spewing insanity

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya no doubt. I love the mental battle thought. These are easy wins, so its more fun than anything. But ya, they are loud to a fault. If they just operated in the shadows, people would never know they were bad people.

[@brandonw9671]

its actually flooring to see someone said metro dosnt hold himself accountable, and only calls out people. yall know that his vods are often reviews people send in? he always mentions what the tank could be doing differently in response to player backlash and vice versa. maybe metro dosnt say often what he could be doing better because hes literally out pacing us as a tank main. im sure hes very self critical, enough that its landed him in high keys. iv literally never seen him leave a key in his docu-vods

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, left almost zero keys in 8 years, and I can assure anyone I am the MOST self critical person you know. People just can't tell because I'm not always making wild changes to what I'm doing because of it. I think a lot of people think that because I don't do things exactly how they want things to be done that I am oblivious. When I tell them that I have thought about these decisions heavily and still make them, you usually hear silence in return.

[@nicowins]

You are great Metro and all these guys is the problem. You do nothing but providing the community with good tips for years 👍

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Thanks for saying that!

[@TheFinQ]

I don't know, I have 3 alts and I have not mistimed a key 8 and under since week 2. They are a joke even in a pug. Dawnbreaker with 25 deaths? No problem. Who the fuck would leave low keys I have no clue.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya it makes no sense at all. These guys act like these low keys are so hard that if people aren't perfect they have no chance. Yet half of them are just filling vaults so timing it doesn't even matter.

[@TheFinQ]

@ Another thing, if I’m joining a +8 to gear an alt, and I see that for some people in the group this is a progression key, why would I be mad at them for some mistakes if they are still learning and progressing? I signed up for this key fully aware of the potential mistakes and that the key might take longer to complete. Why should I have the right to quit after the key has started if I made this decision prior to joining.

[@gustavrus]

''I can not argue with someone who has a lower intellect than myself'' HAHAHH these people are hilarious. That's why I follow you metro and I am always enjoying the content you bring either on the livestream or here in this videos, people get exceedingly mad from not being able to quit keys, and as another youtuber avid world of warcraft player who I follow also said, people who are mad are doing 'mid to low keys' and they behave as they were at the top 1% of the community, sincerely, people should know that they ought to enhance their gameplay, before talking about others, keep up the good work metro love you!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@gustavrus thanks man. I think that's exactly what is happening here!

[@Jlockcuff2]

Think there is a bit misinterpretation of what blizzard is reffering to with their Statement. They are targeting Griefers and folks leaving within 1-2 mins of the key starting. Not players 5-10 mins in and and the key levels that you or I are running many of depletes are gonna happen and people are in those keys for 1 reason and that is to push the key so if time is out of reach the Goal posts no longer exist.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I am just reading the post and reacting to it. I do not feel like they are targeting anyone specifically, or any situation specifically outside of what they described.

[@jani14jani]

If you're pugging you gotta accept that there's gonna be a wide range of skill levels when it comes to players and that sometimes things go wrong. If you're not willing to commit at least the time bliz has given for the key don't pug. If you want everything to go according to the plan etc... There are loads of M+ guilds and discords where people run much more organized and planned runs. Join those runs.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup, exactly how I feel about it too.

[@cheatdeathproc]

Most toxic players are usually obsessed with numbers eg dps/perfect count etc. The real number they should be concerned with is the number of people engaged in mythic plus. With a shrinking player base, and an even smaller mythic plus player base, there comes a point at which Blizzard makes commercial decisions around resourcing those dev teams (how long have we endured dungeon bugs for each season as it is?) What the elitist and toxic end of town don’t realise is that over time all that will be left running keys are a handful of like minded toxic players. Maybe then they can leave each others keys

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@cheatdeathproc haha ya funny thing to think about. I always encourage these guys to stop pugging and go play with each other. Would be funny to see how they handle not being able to just write off everyone else as terrible and try to join a different group.

[@olololo4807]

i tried to get into m+ in DF as a healer. week 1 ruby life pools shattered me. everyone shit on me so much that i stopped. 1 week later mobs got a 300% nerf but i was already gone. i didn't leave any of these keys btw but they were all disbanded. also about the english thing. you talk english because it is the only language you can speak. he speaks english because it is the only language you speak. you are not the same.

[@AnEnragedCat]

What is the point of this comment.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You quit less than 1 week into a season huh? I am concerned with your opinion on this matter. Thank you.

[@olololo4807]

@@AnEnragedCat new players get treated like shit.

[@AnEnragedCat]

@@olololo4807 That probably is an issue for some players, I personally haven't experienced it to that level so I don't have much to say on that front. I do believe that players who rip into other players like that should be removed from the community or chat banned. I am surprised they aren't chat banned more often as this is Blizzard we are talking about, just look at their history with chat banning in Overwatch and it will leave you questioning why they don't do the same in WoW.

[@jgro9]

leaving a key should be few and far between. if you que up and have 20 deaths before you make it to the second boss (happened to me a couple weeks ago) and the group is clearly not capable of finishing the key let alone timing the key, then you should probably head out. but if youre the kind of person that insta leaves a 10 after one bad pull or wipe, or even if you already know youre going to be over time because its a weekly, then you are a piece of garbage and should be punished.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, and that is what a LOT of these people are sounding like tbh.

[@faxxie9964]

As probably one of the few people here who pugs just as much or close to as much as metro.. i can say with 100% confidence the "hostage" thing simple does not happen.. Anytime its a complete wipe fest on a boss .. one person always says "okay last one for me we been trying and getting no where" and rest of group will always.. ALWAYS say "ya same". If you are one of the people mad about this... You are the problem not your groupmates .. you are the issue. If you leave a key every once and while.. guess what nothing is gunna happen to you.. if you leave 5 keys a day.. you suck you are the problem and you prolly will be suspended... its really that simple... Dont leave a million keys and youre gucci.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Very well said man. Glad to hear your perspective on this.

[@AlexSandilands]

My theory is that a lot of these sort of people that comment with this theme of "I'm better than the people in my group" are just average players who watch a lot of high level content creators on KZbin, and therefore feel like they know all the tricks and "how things are supposed to be done". Casual, new or bad players wouldn't leave such comments because they know they aren't that good. Good players don't leave such comments because they are good (and usually have a healthy mindset). Average players that don't watch a lot of KZbin would never leave comments. That just leaves the ones that watch a ton of the top players and who probably watch the game more than they actually play it, so when they actually get into a group if it doesn't go the way they're expecting they flip out

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I had a feeling its like that with a lot of these people, but then we saw the guy who was actually banned in Saturday's video and that really shattered the glass for me. Digging through the guy's logs show mostly green or grey raid parses, a ret paladin who never interrupts or dispels, and some one who self admits to leaving 10 keys a session, who's highest timed key is an 11. How is it even POSSIBLE to have an ego when EVERYTHING THE GAME OFFERS tells you you are mediocre? Really strange thing happening anymore with this game.

[@AlexSandilands]

@@heythereguysitsMetro It's like the people in other competitive games like League of Legends who are terminally stuck in silver rank but complain they are in "elo hell" because all their teammates constantly throw the games, so they are unable to climb 🤣.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya I feel ya. But to be fair, when Harry and I tried to push in LoL, it really is set up for you to get stuck in certain brackets. I was shocked tbh. We had a 50 percent win rate and LOST elo over that stretch. I don't remember the exact numbers but we would lose like 17 and gain 14. Really bad system and once I saw that it totally turned me off from the competitive side of the game. But then the community got involved and it turned me off from the entire game haha

[@pjb1989]

had to pop some popcorn for this one

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nice, love popcorn!

[@Neo_wow]

I wonder where Pec has gone. Remember the guy with those japanese characters. Havent seen him in streams recently. Hope that dude is okay

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Hmm ya I hope so too!

[@Googlrr]

Cracks me up that some guy is trying to say you're a leaver for keys left years ago lol. Some people leave keys daily

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya its really weird how many people have no other argument other than to use the word "hypocrite."

[@acerimmer9894]

in my mythic keys i a running myself i start off before run saying to everyone no abuse or harassing other players in this key is acceptable if u do not abide by this rule u can leave before we start of i see people abusing harassing other people in my key u will be kicked and we will stop. so far all groups i have had have agreed and we had great runs granted was +5's because i am 589 shammy healz but still.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@acerimmer9894 I think this is the third video you have posted this on now haha

[@Tabriel01312]

every 11+ is just vanity project. Its ok to be 10s farmer for vault

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Tabriel01312 what's that have to do with this?

[@Tabriel01312]

@@heythereguysitsMetro the vanity. the vanity of the elitists like hpala from other commenter story about how his DB route suck, the vanity of people thinking just because one wipe its ok to leave because its below for them to continue. The vanity of Dps player that thinks your pull as a tank are not good enough so he helps you out pulling another pack when you are all out of cds to handle bigger pull, the hubris of healer leaving the +7 Siege after 2nd pull wipe the party with that nasty combo overlap, the conceit of tank who rages at the party because 1 spell didnt get interupted. Most of the raging leavers i meet are people who aspire to do high end keys but are unable to and its eats them from within. And in that world of rat-racing Rio-Goblins for highest imaginary number i chose to be lowly altoholic farming 10s. Btw what do you recomend for recording m+ runs?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I use OBS!

[@schmidth]

This will probably only affect people who go into M+ genuinely JUST to grief, people who leave once in a while have nothing to fear

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Certainly if its just once in a while.

[@Slamdoxicalz]

Yes, Blizzard banned trolls that enjoyed leaving the key as it started. All this fear is popcorn material though.

[@ThomasBachler01]

@@Slamdoxicalz I don't believe these people exist? There are people leaving immediately if they disagree with the 1st pull or route - sure. But I have never actually experience or seen somebody leaving right after the key was put in. I think that is a fairy tail or happened when there was already fighting/arguing prior to starting the key. Have you ever actually experienced that?

[@schmidth]

@@ThomasBachler01 Yes, I've experienced people who join literally just to leave. Like key pops, guy is gone and hearthed or logged out. They exist for some reason

[@ThomasBachler01]

@@schmidth wow...