I read this controversial fantasy series and it was a disaster 🤯

[@RafBlutaxt]

I wasn't aware Malazan was controversial? Honestly I think its complexity is overemphasized. What really sets it apart and can make it a bit difficult to approach is the fact it is not written like most current fantasy. It really helps if you have read other genres of fiction, literary fiction and modern short stories in particular because Erikson uses a lot of techniques from outside the rather narrow confines of contemporary fantasy. Beyond that, having a community to talk to, ideally at least one person who has already read the books and can do the job of your hypothetical app, makes it easier to get through the books. But then, why read it if you don't enjoy it, no book is for everyone and reading it just for the bragging rights is not a good reason I think.

[@fallingintime]

We had wars going on in ASOIAF forums about malazan years ago

[@Thomas-Almanza]

Truly good points, especially the part about getting experience with short stories.

[@evilzilla4053]

SciFi & Fantasy Read Along is a great channel for new people trying to get in Gardens of the moon.

[@graphthis2249]

I totally agree with you on how unique the writing is among other fantasy. I am currently 200 pages into Gardens of the Moon and I LOVE it. I hope it stays this good. However! I tried it via Audible THREE different times over the last couple years and could not get past the first 2-3 hours, I could not make heads or tails of anything going on plotwise. I finally bought the actual book last month and sat down to read it and it was mind blowing how much more easy to pick it up was and how GOOD it was. This book has to be read it cannot be picked up via Audible as a first attempt imo. Even then though, some people just don't vibe with it. I know two friends/colleagues who could not get passed the first couple chapters because they could not follow the story, which made no sense to me.

[@dayleclarke4433]

@@graphthis2249 I'm just over halfway through the first book and tend not to enjoy too much magic or pointlessly complex stuff. So far it's just a straight up great book. Do lots of die hard fantasy fans dislike mystery and tension? Personal taste aside I don't see anything 'difficult' about it.

[@kyrilson71]

I still don't understand why people find the series confusing. I never felt confused at all. Maybe it's because I tend to just "go with the flow" as you mentioned. Granted, there is a lot of things that the reader doesn't know, but if I don't know something, I just file it away, figuring I'll find out later. Sure enough, later on, I usually find out and then I'm like "Aha!". It's like a jigsaw puzzle in some ways, I suppose.

[@keeneraf]

I agree and would suggest the reason is because most people want these simple little books that have no depth and require them not to think. This is a series where you have to simultaneously retain information, connect pieces together all while following the order/path of the story. In truth it’s probably a bit to much for most.

[@SennyGamingHQ]

For me, personally, it was learning all the names and titles and locations, etc etc and remembering them. Once I got started memorizing all that, it became much much easier and enjoyable. Book one i was CONSTANTLY flipping back and forth from the story, to the index lol

[@briani8785]

Yeah I just don’t worry so much if there is a passage and I’m not quite sure what’s going on. I’ll speculate a little, but the point is like you said the reader isn’t supposed to know everything all the time. It honestly makes it feel more interesting to me at least.

[@kristienwhitney-johns5863]

If you are going to tell me you wasn't confused by an azath house forming and pulling Raest in, im going to call you a liar

[@fireblazer6661]

I find it's mostly a memory thing that leads to confusion. Forgetting stuff. There are purported to be close to or around 700 NAMED characters in the series. I have an awful memory retention so I've had to practically STUDY the books (Malazan wiki Fandom, TorRereads, google slides a guy made to review etc).. I've also in addition to reading the books, LISTENED to 6 of them, more than once while doing mundane work, to refresh my memory. I'm reading Book 8, Toll the Hounds, having read Reaper's Gale and Return of the Crimson Guard in December 2022, and The Bonehunters December 2021... huge time gap there...and finding I have to constantly look up stuff... my fault for the time gap in reading more book... I didn't even realize it was that long... I read a few of the Novellas in early 2021 too, but work was crazy busy... just didn't have time spring/summer/fall. I keep forgetting who people are from earlier books etc. Because of work and life I don't always have the luxury of time and energy to read as much as I want. I do hard labour work, so it's been 4 months since I read the last book.

[@IskarJarak]

I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy it! It’s not for everyone, but very cool that you’re giving it a shot. You don’t need a PhD to have an opinion on books, and I appreciated hearing your views. Will be cool to see what you think if you ever decide to finish it off. Happy reading!

[@jasonvizcarra709]

Your channel has been very helpful. I always go straight to your chapter recaps after I get through a chapter. Funny how I always end up realizing that I understood the story a lot more than I initially thought.

[@sharxboy]

@@jasonvizcarra709 also, I learned what "chunking the deuces" meant on Iskar's channel!

[@nishthagupta1357]

Exactly yes

[@TheLumberJacked]

I agree and it’s OK for people to even view book one as a grind due to a lack of context and exhaustive references to things you know nothing about (yet). It is. But the further you get into the series the more you appreciate the stuff you didn’t previously understand AND now totally understand. I don’t think it could have been done another way IMHO. It would have made the world start too small, too confined. If people can just understand that a lack of context and a massive well developed world is just the initial cost to starting this series then they will be fine. People just need to understand that they will come to understand it all. In time and It will all make sense…eventually, then people do fine. By the end of book one you need more. By the end of book 2 you know you are in for a lot of reading because you must have it all now that you are beginning to come to grips with the established world and the players. The fact that the main series and the books that surround this series covering oft referenced events (like the “Night of Knives”) is written by two buddies who fully developed the lore and the world these events would be set in before embarking on the full book helps explain why they just drop you into the first one with no apologies.

[@Johanna_reads]

Your experience is totally valid! As much as I love this series, I do not recommend it lightly to most fantasy readers. I understand the “go with the flow” advice, but I don’t think that works for most first-time readers. I did find it easiest to “flow” with it when I was focusing more on themes than plot, and I also gave up on looking up material to confirm what I read-that was too much of a chore for me. Loved the Erikson not spoon-feeding part 🤣!

[@libraryofaviking]

If I ever give this series a second chance then I will try and do that! Thank you for watching 😄

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Hello, Johan! I’m sorry to hear that Malazan didn’t work out for you, but I think you explained your experience very well. If you do end up deciding to give it another try, of course I wish you the best and would be happy to chat about the series anytime with you! ⚔️

[@libraryofaviking]

I might return to it someday! Thank you Philip!

[@ladrac198]

I tried it for the first time over a year ago and got halfway through book 7 before stopping when I realized life got in the way and I had read like 50 pages in a month. I took a break, read some familiar books to readjust, read Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy for the first time, and then decided to dive back in. I read the entire series in 3 months, finishing about a month ago, and I'm diving into the other canonical books outside of Book of the Fallen, and it's been an AMAZING experience. It knocked Wheel of Time from my number one spot which I never thought would ever be possible, but it happened. The best worldbuilding, some of the best characters, and just some of the most emotions I've EVER felt reading fantasy.

[@Canoe64]

Three years ago Gardens became my first fantasy book. I had no idea that fantasy could be written like this and this well. And I obviously had no other fantasy to compare it to. I was hooked and have been reading only fantasy ever since. Took me 14 months to read, while reading no other book. My suggestion - and it's just a suggestion - the first five books can be read as stand alones, so just read them as standalones. They each have their own stories with beginnings and ends. It's only during Bonehunters, book 6, that they all start coming together and by that time you will be familiar with the major characters and world. I also found that I don't need to know all things, just as I still don't know and will never know all things of our own world.

[@epicgamer2727]

I always say, if you can’t get through the end of deadhouse gates and start enjoying the series it isn’t for you.

[@libraryofaviking]

I've heard that a lot! I might give Deadhouse Gates a second chance!

[@angelaholmes8888]

That's so true I really enjoyed deadhouse gates

[@kristienwhitney-johns5863]

@@libraryofaviking Better off reading Memories of ice tbh

[@timme781]

Deadhouse Gates is partly hard to get trough but the finale ist such a great payoff, thats justify all hard work before in this book.

[@troyruckman6781]

I had a very similar experience with yours starting out, but I stuck with it and Malazan became one of my favorite series. Here’s what I would recommend if you decide to continue: 1. Dedicate a good chunk of time to reading each book. I found that I struggled understanding what was going on initially if I just spent 40 pages a day reading. Once I committed to reading close to 100 pages a day or more, all of the characters and plot fell into place. 2. Read through book 3, Memories of Ice. If you’re not sold by this point, I think it’s safe to say that you won’t enjoy the rest of the series. I was sold with the series after this book. 3. Go with the flow, like Phillip Chase suggested. You won’t understand everything, or even most of what’s going on initially. Give it time though. You will start to pick up things. Reading Malazan has made me a better reader. It truly is an amazing series. I think what gives people the most trouble is not giving the books enough time. You really need to shut things down and just focus on reading. I couldn’t do this initially with my work schedule and my reading suffered because of it. However, once I had free time to read, I dedicated a lot of my time to reading this series. My enjoyment picked up immensely. Best of luck! No series is for everyone. I appreciate your channel and insight to fantasy!

[@Matt-sl1wg]

I found a chapter per day was more than enough to follow the story. The best advice I can give to most newcomers to the series is to stop trying to understand everything. You're not "missing" anything, Erikson just hasn't spelled it out yet. It doesn't start to all tie together until the end of The Bonehunters.

[@parcaleste]

"Reading Malazan has made me a better reader" Not only that - I just watched the new Kevin Costner "Horizon" movie last week and heard people complaining about couple of characters. They were in a caravan chain (wink) and seemed aside from the main story. But knowing Malazan, I now trust that a good author/storyteller will fit them in the story in the most satisfying way. So I enjoyed they arc as what it was - mainly meeting and knowing them a bit. I can't recall this happening to me with other books.

[@BrantMarcksson]

I loved the books. And the first one had me totally baffled. I figured pretty early that it's ok to be in a scene and not understand a damn thing. It's like when you're a kid and you go somewhere in your town you've never been and everything feels so alien and different that it's a thrill.

[@crystalsingh7325]

Lol Malazan fan here and I'm not triggered at all 🤣 Sorry it didn't work for you. It's important to enjoy what you read!

[@libraryofaviking]

Thank you 😂 I might give this one a second try someday! Thanks for watching!

[@fireblazer6661]

@@libraryofaviking It's well worth the effort, but it's time consuming and Erikson doesn't just point blank tell you everything. So it takes some effort on the reader's part, which most books don't these days. I'm on book 8 (reading publication order, including Esslemont side books, Novella's etc). And holy ... so good. I gave up after book 1 in 2014 but reread book 1 in 2019, been slowly plodding along since. No regrets. Not an effortless read though, at all. But among the best writing I've ever read, and I say that as an honours BA English graduate.

[@aboyaser5608]

with %20 dislike ratio I think it's fair to say that a lot of fans got triggered xD

[@bored_boar]

Best part about reading Malazan for me was being immersed in the scenes, feeling just as confused, just as terrified, and just as devasted as the characters as they experience everything. This also rings true for my first read through of the first book. I didn't try to figure shit out nor did I try making conjectures with what is happening because I was seeing things through Paran and Crokus, who are just as confused as I am, so I felt like I experienced the book as it should be, from the eyes of an outsider.

[@TheLumberJacked]

Ya, I feel like just telling people that book one just drops you into the world with no context is enough to make people shy away. Any who are wise enough to not take this as a warning but rather a promise of spectacular world building tend to do well. Trying to research this series before starting it is IMHO people putting way too much effort into the wrong thing. Everyone who reads this series will become an independent expert on the world and characters to some degree. They might leave you with little context in book one, but it’s so well rewarded later on that I don’t see anything but good from this approach. Beautiful series

[@jackygarbutt5884]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry your experience was so unhappy. I was fortunate enough to start the series a month after 'Gardens of the Moon' was published. Thus, had no choice but to go with the flow, and jump right into it. Your research and prep work is what doomed you. Additionally, because each book (mostly) took a year to come out, I did a full series re-read with each new publication. Made it so much easier and enjoyable. ⚔

[@cubbeige7104]

This is absolutely valid and honestly if the reading experience doesn't bring you joy and it leaves you feeling like rubbish, it ain't worth it. I have a couple of experiences exactly like yours. Life is too short and we should stick with things that we're passionate about. You do you mate!

[@mvprindle]

The biggest hurdle to understanding Malazan is your own expectations. The second is patience. If you keep going, it gets easier, not because the material is simpler, but because your brain gets used to processing information the way Erikson wants to feed it to you. My advice would be to take breaks between books, but don't give up.

[@Matt-sl1wg]

It also helps that after The Bonehunters, the cast finally remains mostly static, so it's easier to follow what's going on in the grand scheme. The earlier books are really tough to tie together until you reach Bonehunters and it all starts to finally tie together.

[@fireblazer6661]

I will never forget the moment I think 3000 pages or so into the series when I finally learned some key things and had a holy shit moment...From that point on, in spite of my slow pace at reading, I've just kept at it, looked up stuff online as needed when I've forgotten things. I find if you just keep at it and have patience things become clearer eventually with even just a bit of effort on the readers part. I read Return of the Crimson Guard in about a week in December. Also read Reaper's Gale. but then 4 months went by and now I'm into Toll the Hounds and a tad lost... but I'm just keeping at it, googling things on Malazan wiki fandom etc as needed.

[@jayspeijer614]

I read all 10 books with the support of Mike’s read-along, as well as various other online resources, many of which you listed. And while these well-intentioned people did help my ‘understanding’ of the text to some extent, they did little to advance my enjoyment of the series. There were a few entertaining aspects of the series, but preciously too few of them to offset the consistently irritating writing style of the author. The biggest obstacles I could not get through were thin character work, lack of a coherent plot, and needlessly endless obfuscation for its own sake. Many devotees have quoted such characteristics as part of the series’ charm. I don’t get it. Not my preferred bag of bananas.

[@dominicaudy8479]

I’m just a casual reader of Malazan, not one of the huge fans. I read them while the second half of the series was still being published, reread only the first few a second time. Gardens of the Moon is a pretty terrible book with many of the flaws of a first novel, and IMHO it wasn’t a great idea to make entry into the series THIS hard. But the book gets better once you’ve read the second book in the same arc. However, Philip was right: there’s only one way to read Malazan, and it’s to go with the flow and not worry about “understanding”, just absorbing what is going on, without seeking for explanations that won’t come… yet. It’s not a puzzle to decipher at first (though it will become partially that later on), it’s deeply ancient and lost knowledge you won’t understand until you meet characters who do understand them, partially. Malazan in many ways is a quest for knowledge, and it’s one for the readers too. What makes no sense whatsoever in GotM will later become simple and easy to follow. The second book is already a much better story (alas you stopped before reaching the “good part”, it’s really the last act that’s amazing and gruesomely tragic) that has all the power of very ancient epics. It’s with the third book that you start really being dragged in and start to understand a bit what is going on. After that there are certainly very puzzling and very baffling things going on now and again, the cast and world keep expanding, and some of past history in particular is steeped in ambiguities and mysteries, but the series as a whole becomes more “intricate and captivating” than “complicated”. I was able to enjoy it as a casual reader picking up the new book each year. But GotM I only appreciated on a reread. I initially hated that book and most of the characters. But by book 3 they turn into old friends. But if you’re ever tempted to give it another try I’d recommend going back to the essence of what Philip said by “going with the flow”. Just dive in and let it wash over you. Don’t try to do research or to understand beforehand the world. For good or bad (and with the first book I think there’s quite of bit of bad that will be turned into good only books later) being quite lost most of the time is an intentional feature of the early series. It’s like being an anthropologist discovering a new continent full of mysteries going as far back as prehistory, and having to pick up the threads one by one. It’s not a series to be too analytical with, not initially and until the rules of the game are explained, or it will drive you pretty crazy. It’s definitely not a matter of intelligence, I think it’s probably more a matter of expectations and placing the bar for yourself too high in regard to how much you should understand by book 2. But it’s also not a series for everyone. It has put off A LOT of very experienced Fantasy readers. Not everyone enjoys an experience as confounding as Malazan can be, nor everyone finds the world building and characters nearly captivating and intriguing enough to make the massive efforts necessary to plow through the more difficult early books.

[@Ejacula]

Saying guardians of the Moon was a terrible book I stopped reading anything you wrote. I bet you love wind and truth

[@EricMcLuen]

Actually read them twice. It is interesting seeing these type videos as the reasons people love or hate them are the same. But I wish you would finish Deadhouse Gates. You are introduced to perhaps the most co traversal character as well as one of the most beloved. But either way, avoid the Wiilki at all costs.

[@angelaholmes8888]

I absolutely enjoyed deadhouse gates definitely one of my favorite books in the series and it has one of my favorite character

[@GermanTodd]

I think I've tried about three times to read this series, and each time end up giving up somewhere around book 3 and moving on to something I can actually enjoy reading.

[@seanmacleod1724]

Well I've just finished Book 1 in the series and loved it. So I'll be carrying on...nice and slowly, and immersing myself in this fascinating world. The best advice I can give is don't rush....Savour the flavour, savour the depth, and savour Erikson's great writing.... 🙏

[@francb1634]

regarding your comment about wanting an app that can tell you whether you should understand something by a given point. I think this highlights one of the pitfalls we have as readers: we view understanding as a boolean. we either understand something, or we don't but that model doesn't really apply to a text like Malazan because our comprehension of most concepts is built over time, piece by piece. and that's done very purposefully as Erikson uses these piecemeal reveals to re-contextualise his concepts. our understanding grows but it also changes.

[@vilevagrant4632]

It's a valid point when one says it's a chore to read through, not everyone has time to connect a story that is meant to be read in a confusing order. Not to mention it is daunting in scale, and jumping from, not one character to another, but one whole group of characters to another, in another area. Definitely hearing it described like this is enough to make me go nope.

[@Imladrist]

A couple of thoughts.. Your points are 100% valid and I agree with them. The first book is by FAR the toughest to get through, imo, and while you may have read over 1,000 pages, reading just 12% of the entire series is simply not enough to judge it accurately. Malazan is a series that rewards you the more you read it. Yes, you are completely dropped into the middle of a story and world and have to hit the ground running, like a newborn giraffe. It can be confusing, frustrating, and unexpected. But eventually, as long as you keep moving, you are rewarded with an experience almost unparalleled in fantasy literature. It is a series that requires patience and determination. I only recommend it for hardcore fantasy readers as it can be very intimidating. I read all 10 books and don't know that I've ever felt more satisfied to have finished a series. Easily on my top 3 of all time.

[@codym6325]

Hey man I just finished my third reading of the main 10 books and just now feel I understand maybe 90% of the entire story. That has been one of my favorite parts of this series is every time I read it I discover something I missed or didn't fully understand the last time. Also the secondary novels by esselmont really adds more detail to the whole story.

[@michaelseverance6837]

Hi, I'm currently on book five. I'm constantly challenged by these books as I read them. The struggle is worth it because I don't just breeze through them and I see possibility to reread them someday. I like the advice of going with the flow and don't be afraid to look something you're confused by. Even if there's spoilers it won't spoil the way it's written for you. I sometimes read the spoilers on purpose so i can better understand what I'm reading for the first time.

[@AdamThayer]

I just finished the whole series two weeks ago (I started because of Mike's Book Reviews too!), and I found there are a few types of confusion I went through, over the course of the series. One part is confusion because I didn't know enough yet, as a lot of things are discussed more in-depth in later books. One part was confusion because things were happening in other Malazan books that weren't part of the big ten (like a MAJOR CHARACTER DEATH that is hardly touched on in the big ten). One part was confusion because I just wasn't paying close enough attention; I've gotten used to being able to skim books because most authors hold your hand through the story, but Erikson trusts you enough not to do that. I decided around book 7 that I wanted to re-read the whole series after I finished it, and I plan to start that in another year or so after I've decompressed from the ending. I like that you are giving your experience on the books; it's definitely not for everyone, and that's ok! I spent the first six books thinking I was going to DNF the series, and now I'm glad that I didn't, but I think it's equally valid to say it didn't capture you and move on to a different book/series. I was also helped along a LOT by the Ten Very Big Books podcast, and Iskar Jarak's youtube channel, both of which pointed out things that I missed, and reinforced things that I thought were important.

[@HotTakesDiscussion]

You've earned my subscription because I completely agree with on Malazan. I couldn't understand it and I tried super hard. (I also went to school for Business Management and also abandoned the series during Deadhouse Gates and only got that far because everyone talked about how amazing it is).

[@keriant]

"I just wanted to read. I didn't want to study a book." I felt the exact same way when I tried reading Gardens of the Moon. A lot of the fans also just take for granted that a lot of the books must be re-read, but I just don't think that's for me at all. Reading fiction for me is about entertainment and excitement and it felt by reading Gardens of the Moon I was studying or that taking a studious approach would be the only successful way of getting the book and enjoying it. I don't enjoy complexity for complexity's sake, but that's just me, after all. I'm glad there are many others who enjoy it!

[@babasolaosikoya5947]

I agree. I was a student when I picked up the book and it felt like a textbook. Too many characters introduced too fast.

[@kenshin57stheronin3]

Dude just read the story. Your not studying for a test. You don’t need to understand everything in one read thru. Just like real life there will always be parts you can’t comprehend just go with the flow

[@muhammedshibin621]

I like complicated world building but i am not reading a book where i have to piece things like a murder mystery.

[@sunflowerbadger]

This was a good take on these books. I have just finished the 7th book after a bit of time off, and I found myself really tiring of Ericson's style. I sincerely feel like this book could have been 1/3 its length and would have lost nothing of real value. The repetitive nature of the narrative really stood out in this book, with so many duplicated events or types of events. I do love his world building and the way he weaves in geology. I love his magic, and the comic parts and the action. And always Karsa Orlong. But I also tire of the same old pathos coming out again and again. So many characters have the same set of emotional responses that feel overwhelmingly emo and trite and limited, and sooo repetitive. I'll probably finish the series but I need another rest.

[@ToriTalks2]

As a Malazan fan, I'm gonna be the first to say that I would NEVER recommend it for everything. Yikes. It's a lot of book, and it is super dense, with a lot of lines to follow. I'm also the type of reader who isn't possibly going to catch everything when I read dense and detailed fantasy series. For me at least, what I loved so much about it was the profound character moments. Deadhouse Gates is still one of my favorite books of all time. I go with the flow very much when reading these, and not trying to obsess over the details, but I also totally agree with your idea of a "should I know about this by now" app for this series XD Honestly, kudos to you for sharing your opinion about this, and I think it's super cool that you read it and shared your thoughts. I totally get that it isn't for everyone. I'll be re-reading it, but that's not a commitment that everyone can or wants to make, and I don't blame them for that. ⚔

[@AmeriMutt76]

Erickson says this himself, he follows "Show, don't Tell" writing styles. While that's becoming more common (thank-e sai) Ericson takes the concept a step farther, sometimes showing the same time sequence from different POV's, and in paying attention to each POV's reactions, the details they notice, etc.. you get a much richer picture of the characters than from other traditional devices, imo. It's tricky, and you have to read carefully, but since I trust that Erickson also 'wrote carefully', I can be relatively sure that minor, but confusing discrepancies that other readers might pass over as an error are actually plot or characterisation details. Sometimes for plot/characters that we don't pick back up until a book or two later. I vall that brilliance, and appreciated every nugget I found. I listened the first time, which is hard, so I can't wait to re-read!

[@patricksmyth7845]

People often say they tried so hard to like this series. I'm one of them. I really tried, but I realized at some point I shouldn't have to try to like something. Nor should I have to overlook bad writing in the hope that at some point I can say this series was worth reading.

[@gamer46ful]

I remember when I was recommended Malazan book of the fallen well before booktube. It was actually done in the wild by my friend's friend who knew I read fantasy. I didn't know what I was getting into because I don't research anything I read. I tried that series twice now I have yet to finish gardens of the Moon but I do plan to try again. I just don't think I'm in the right head space to keep up with that story. I definitely want to try to give it to memory of ice because that's what everyone says is worth getting to. I want to give it at least a book three no matter what. But as someone who has tried to read gardens of the Moon two times now and failed, I totally understand the struggles.

[@OverlyAverageBen]

Whilst I have loved my experience of Malazan so far, I completely understand and experienced the difficulty of not knowing whether I should know something in the story. It's hard to know whether information is being withheld or if you've just forgotten at a certain point lol. It also doesn't help with having some unreliable narrating adding further confusion haha. Fair play to you giving it a shot though! Great video as always.

[@PsilocybeJedi]

Good video. I had to put it down towards the end of the second book. Never bothered to pick it up.... 8 years later am considering it.

[@RabDaBruce]

Hope you carry on and get the chance to meet Karsa, Trull, Mappo and Iskaral Pust to name a few. This is by far my favourite world to get lost in. ✌🏻

[@J.R.Carrel]

I just finished rereading book 3 and it's still confusing. It feels like going from playing Fallout 3 to Fallout 4 where they said oh you like the building aspect well we're going to turn that up to 11. Then it just becomes tedious and it stopped being fun. Malazan isn't bad but it's definitely overwhelming.

[@libraryofaviking]

Wow, that is a bit worrying 😅 Sorry you've struggled with the series as well! Are you going to continue?

[@J.R.Carrel]

@@libraryofaviking I want to but that's because I'm a glutton for punishment. I may give it one more book. I've done some videos recently that talk about are books main purposes to be fun and entertaining. So if the book is no longer fun or entertaining I will stop. I'm not reading it for some philosophical awakening.

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

MBoTF is a magnificent read , along with all the Esslemont contributions it has literally changed not only the course of my fantasy reading but my life, I know that sounds dramatic but I now have a core group of friends from all over the world (some of who I've actually met) and we have as close if not closer bond than my physical friends.... just finished my re-read of the whole series and its safe to say as with Tolkien you pick up on new things along the second journey along with storlines having even greater resonance... saying all that, not every series is for everyone... Read what makes you happy.... First In, Last Out

[@tomsativa]

I think the books are fun bc they're different from the norm of every other fantasy book lol. Wasn't a disaster on my end. It threw my expectations completely aside which was something I hadn't realized I needed. And I enjoy short story writing. That said, I'm not a Malazan fanboy but I liked it!

[@ML-cc7gj]

As other commentators have said, Malazan is not for everyone, but also, not for whenever. To put it shortly, Malazan and the timing of reading it is important. I started it once, when I was kind of in the middle of my fantasy reading career, I read Gardens of the Moon, did not get a lot and dropped it. However, at the bookshop, where I worked, other fans asked if I had read it yet and when I said that not properly yet, they had this smile of "you have an amazing experience ahead of you" that I knew, I had to get back to it some time again. So I read other fantasy, stuff I liked and also stuff that I did not think that good. And then I decided to start Malazan again and it worked amazingly. I read Gardens again and then kept reading on, knowing that the characters keep reappearing every other book and that it's just best to go with the flow. I was swallowed whole and I have to say, it has been hard to find good fantasy after that, all pales before it. So, in a way, it's best to keep it later in your fantasy reading, since it will ruin you for other series if you like it. Malazan is at the very top of my favourite fantasy series and it's been difficult to find books that come somewhat close to that experience lately (Sorry, but I don't get the hype of Name of the Wind and Sanderson's Stormlight Archive!).

[@PaperTigerProductions]

Everything you said about Erikson is basically his brand as an author. A lot of the complexity in the world building, characters, and the plot come from Malazan's origins in several years of role-playing, and thanks to his background in archaeology and anthropology, he excels in handling large casts and epic plots. I personally LOVE that he doesn't believe in exposition. Once you get used to Erikson's style of using very little exposition, it does ratchet up your sensitivity to egregious exposition everywhere else...mainly because you suddenly notice just how much direct exposition exists in most fantasy. Books I would have once enjoyed without complaint prior to reading Erikson, I now usually have the reaction of "oh I liked it, except for all of the infodumping". I've read the main ten books and as long as you can roll with being confused, you'll be able to make it to the end of the series. The hardest part was getting into Book 5, because it does take you to a completely new place to the events and characters of Books 1-4 but if you can push through that, everything will eventually all come back together in Book 10, which was an emotional catharsis for me. He is amazing at delivering on emotional gut punches and narrative pay-offs. Every time I think there isn't any more ways he can make me cry, he pulls out something new and even more devastating than before. My heart just breaks for Tavore. For what it's worth, in my opinion, most of the stuff you'll be confused about at first doesn't matter. Anything that's critical to understanding the story, you will be given enough context to piece it together. Some things you will NEVER figure out and aren't meant to figure out. Example: the magic system. There clearly is a reasonably hard magic system in place (arguably several). Over the course of the books, you will come to understand enough about it that when magical things happen, they make sense. At the same time, if you asked me to try and explain the magic system to you, I wouldn't be able to. I could only explain bits and pieces, without being able to give any sort of grand unification theory. And that's also a huge part of the wonder in Malazan.

[@corbanbausch9049]

I was debating reading this series until reading this comment. I might still give it a try, and I do love figuring out worldbuilding as I go along, but I already have my worldbuilding fix from Sanderson and I *hate* never-answered questions and overall vauge-ness. I love how scientific Sanderson's magic systems are and how, eventually, every single teeny tiny detail will eventually be used and explained. I still might try it out for curiosity's sake, idk.

[@derekleon24]

Im at the last 3 chapters of The Crippled God. I started Malazan with Mike’s read along and was very upset when he quit. But I was ok with it because Jimmy was doing a very good job at covering the books. I was all in. It’s super dense but I worked through it and likes most of the books up to book six. I even liked Toll the hounds. But I’m to the point where I wish I was done with Malazan. I’m very interested in the world and the lore but Steve’s writing is not for me. The choices he made just to go against the grain are frustrating.

[@waldo8791]

I thought Mike was just taking a break? I’m at book 6 started way late. Sad to see he didn’t make it past book 7. Makes me a little worried.

[@derekleon24]

@@waldo8791 i dont think he plans on picking it up any time soon. I know a lot people love this series and maybe the ICE books are better since it’s a different writer. But I might not read mother Malazan book in a long time. I hope you have a better experience than I did but the parts that are cool In this series don’t out weigh the all convoluted nonsense and the philosophical bills hit everyone and their mom go on and on about. Whats the point of having all these cool characters if they never show up.

I've read the first three books and I've had a similar experience. I've reviewed them in Spanish in some of my first videos, when I had no experience in editing and thought that making videos more than 45 minutes long was a good idea. Some thoughts about the first three novels: - Gardens of the Moon: You're on point when you say this feels like you're beginning to read in the middle of a long series, like starting on page 500 of a several-thousand-pages book. However, I think the complexity is sometimes overestimated. Yes, there are many characters and several different plots, but the only difficulty is not getting lost with the names and changes of location. The real difficulty is the author hiding information from the reader on purpose, for example only hinting at how the magic works etc. This actually can spur the curiosity of the reader as happened in my case, expecting further explanation of the background in the following novels. On the other hand, one of the main plots of the novel, the dagger-and-cloak adventures in Darujhistan, dragged in my opinion, and since it takes a large portion of the novel I got quite bored at the end. Furthermore, one of the reason I started reading the series was because I knew that Erikson was an anthropologist, so I expected a Tolkien-like level of worldbuilding, but only found a reworking of fantasy clichés with hardly anything really new (and even some character ripped from other fantasy series, like Anomander Rake). - Deadhouse Gates: This, read separately, I would consider one the best books of military fantasy I've ever read, quite thrilling to the end (If I had to guess after reading this, I would have said that Erikson is a military historian instead of an anthropologist). However, at the end it began to dawn on me that Erikson wasn't intending to explain the background at any point and was just going to keep on throwing unexplained elements at us. Also, it started to bother me how materialistic and lacking in fascination (from my point of view) is all the magic and religion/gods (when gods appear in this series, at least in the three novels I have read, they do it in my opinion in the most underwhelming of ways). - Memories of Ice: This book did it for me about getting disillusioned with the series after the bump up of Deadhouse Gates. Curiously, the moral ambiguity is thrown out the window with this one, since here one of the sides in the war that is presented as clearly evil. Anyway, this novel just confirmed (for me) the problems of the first two and the fact that there wouldn't be any great change of gear in the series: what we saw in the first books was what we are going to probably get in the rest of the series (I say this because more than once fans of the series have told me not to bother continuing if I didn't like this book). After finishing it, I wasn't invested at all in the characters, and the world described, while very large (although for me it's not entirely clear how "continents" is not simply a transposition of "countries" in other fantasy worlds) lacked any fascination from my point of view. I just couldn't see any reason to continue reading, which probably would mean another jump to another continent and another different adventure anyway. I just don't see the point of following the story further when I haven't found anything truly original or gripping in this series. And if this is going to happen after 3000 pages, well, maybe the author should have found a way to introduce it earlier.

[@someobserver844]

Pretty good short review of GotM as far as I'm concerned - even though it did not grab me at all when I last tried to get into the series. If I recall it correctly, Erickson has denied that Rake is influenced by Elric, which is very funny to me. I think one of Erickson's major flaws as a writer is that he doesn't understand that exposition is a spectrum, not some kind of manichean dichotomy of not introducing or explaining anything at all and infodumping everything to death: You can introduce characters and concepts elegantly by letting readers encounter them in a way that they understand enough of them to get by without bigger problems - that is pretty much what Gene Wolfe does in Book of the New Sun. To me, his lack of exposition made everything feel paper thin and uninteresting.

[@artenrouge6950]

I wish you had been able to make it through Deadhouse Gates! That book, just by itself, really is mindblowing. I hope you'll pick it up again someday. You were right to not google, btw. It's very hard to avoid Malazan spoilers because things so often connect in unexpected ways.

[@esmayrosalyne]

Loved hearing about your experience! I definitely don't think this is a 'disaster' though, the series just wasn't for you and that is absolutely fine. Different readers, different tastes! There are plenty of other books out there for you to enjoy, you don't have to drag yourself through a series that isn't working for you, simply because it's supposedly 'one of the greats'. You do you! Anyway, this is probably the one series that I am most intimidated by, for exactly the same reasons that you pointed out... I tend to be a very charcter-driven reader and I am a bit concerned that I won't be able to connect as much as I would like to, since we are hopping around different casts of characters throughout the series. And I read for enjoyment, so the fact that I hear so many people say that this feels like a damn study doesn't sound too appealing to me. All that said, I still want to give it a shot some day, just to see how I feel. Hearing so many reviewers that I look up to just absolutely gush about this series has really piqued my interest. I think it's good to hear a different opinion from you though, I hope it helps me go in with the right expectations (if that is even possible for this series). Also, I just want to say that having a literature degree doesn't make another reviewer's opinion more valuable/correct than yours. We are all readers and we all have our own reading experiences, which are worthy of sharing. This was a great video!

[@5MinuteWonders]

I find the writing in Malazan is just not enjoyable. Great world/characters but somehow nothing hits.

[@AyushGupta-qs5xw]

Honestly I hate understanding thr complex stuff, but grow to lobe it after i begin understanding with time Is this book like that or is it gonna confuse me till the last word Should I read it?

[@libraryofaviking]

The only way you can find out is by trying Gardens of the Moon! I hope you will enjoy it if you pick it up!

[@ramulus694]

Didn't know about the 'overly-complex' aspect that people say about Malazan.. I'm on book 4 and it is awesome, does not feel confusing at all. It feels like playing dark souls or elden ring, you build up your information as you go.. don't panic and just go with the flow.. its really not that overwhelming. On you saying that you can't care for the characters because they are not obviously good or bad: well why would you want a book that is so simplistic that you don't have to consider these things or think for yourself? Especially in context of war and what war brings? I get that not every book is for everyone and its ok to not enjoy everything, but I feel like this is not exactly a fair assessment of Malazan.

[@FranzBazar]

Everybody certainly has such different tastes. I'd heard how "complex" Malazan was, which put me off it a while. Then I finally got around to reading Gardens of the Moon and it was my 2022 book of the year! Just Fantastic! There were a few things I didn't like as much about it (for instance this awesome buildup to this seemingly unbeatable baddy then at the end.. well..) But overall I thought it was amazing - and many (Fans of Malazan) say it's the worst in the series?! Wow that just makes me excited to read more of the series because I absolutely Loved Gardens of the Moon.

[@goldenageofdinosaurs7192]

This is pretty much a spot-on explanation of why I had difficulty getting into these books. I’ve tried 4 or 5 times (250-350 pages in, perhaps a bit more), but it just never grabbed me. I’ll probably give it one more shot before giving up completely.

[@thomasranney8913]

Something else I want to add, and I fear I need to tread carefully because I do not want to come across condescending. Some times we just want to read for easy entertainment, but some times we want to be completely immersed in a world. Malazan calls for total immersion. I constantly find myself pausing and going to Malazan wiki for background on a Character etc, and I love that! Also, I found I had to give up on trying to understand what is going on and just allow myself to be pulled along. I really hope you give it a go again, and more importantly, I really hope you find you love it like many of us do. But if you don't, that's okay too. I have really tried to like R Scott Baker's, The Darkness That Comes Before, but simply cannot get into it. We like what we like, I suppose.

[@fernandomarasco7450]

i'm halfway the last book. i feel i still don't understand 25% of the things that are going on. But even like that, i'm enjoying this amazing trip and already feel that i want a re read. after some things i've read, even abercrombie (whom i love) feels simple

[@Adrizzle]

After a long break from fantasy, and reading in general, Malazan is intriguing for me and is definitely on my TBR. However I feel like I need to get some more fantasy experience under my belt first before tackling this series. I'm going to try and get through the WOT first and see how I fare on a series of such grand scope, then maybe I'll give it a shot. Realistically though it's probably 2 years away for me at this point.

[@waldo8791]

After reading all of Stormlight Archive I made myself choose between Malazan and WoT. I am currently on book 6 of Malazan Book of the Fallen. I am so happy I made that choice but I’m also nervous that I might not enjoy the WoT series after Malazan.

[@Adrizzle]

@@waldo8791 I'm actually thinking of doing WOT - SA - Malazan because i share the same feelings as you juat based on my personal tastes. However I'm sure you will still enjoy WOT, it will just be a completely different experience

[@nathanhargenrader645]

While I found similar issues with being confused. The funny part about Malazan fans saying they aren't confused is most of them when I ask them about specific plot points or character motivations they can't answer. "They understand" but the truth is they aren't fully grasping every point. I had conversations with several people about deadhouse gates and barely anyone could answer why half the things that happen in that book happen. I had to reread several parts to get a handle on it. The end result was finding a plot so convoluted and stupid I couldn't believe anyone would ever praise it. The really unfortunate thing for me is that I don't think the character work is good at all and much of the plot is driven by constant God interventions to the point where it barely feels like any of the characters have any actual power or choice in the things happening. So much of the plot feels convenient, even the parts that aren't so convoluted that they make some amount of sense. After reading about half the series I don't think I have ever read anything so overrated. At best I felt the books were average or maybe slightly above and at their worst they were below average. Never once did I see this grand fantasy epic on par with other top tier fantasy. I hate to be this way but I think people like to say they like this series because it makes them feel smart that so many people say they don't get it. I can't tell you how many times I have had conversations with Malazan fans that can barely describe their "favorite" character or give details about things in the world. Hell I had a conversation with one huge fan about how the non human races in Malazan barely feel different than humans and the guy said he disagreed and asked for an example. I brought up Mappo who was a "Trell" and the guy was like "Mappo is human Trell are humans." Had to pull it up on the wiki to show him. So I don't think most fans even truly understand.

[@lucaricciardi8253]

Interesting The 3 points that were "problematic" for you are the reasons I now want to pick up gardens of the moon. Thank you again, your videos are really helpful, you clearly state facts and believe me, this is a breath of fresh air in the booktubers wilderness. Oh, by the way, if what you described had a confusing effect, don't get close to Grant Morrison's Final Crisis nor Superman Beyond 😊

[@PatrickLugo]

or … The Invisibles: 90’s classic + basis for THE MATRIX 😎

[@_rustyxnails]

Your video title says, "I read this...series...", but you didn't. You read the first and half of the second book. Hardly in a position to judge the entire series. Try finishing it, and you might just enjoy it!

[@erfanashkan5925]

i m gonna say a contreversial thing. malazan world building and characters and story is cool. but having your readers not knowing who is who for like 100 page at the begining of books is not good writing, i would say that the malazan series is a series full of good ideas with a meh writing ; that asks the reader to do the work.reading gardens of the moons feels like joining a D&d campagne mid session a year in and no one wants to explain to you who is who and what is happenong.

[@hrishitelcontar]

If you ever go back to the series, a couple of bits of advice. The first is, don't try to be prepared for it, because as you said, you'll never be sufficiently prepared for it. Whenever you feel like you don't understand something, just chant the mantra of "read on and find out". Other than that, I would probably recommend the Tor Reread of the Fallen as a readalong companion. It does a pretty decent job of summaries the things you can expect to have understood at various stages of each book.

[@MaxMustermann-ql2wm]

The thing with Malazan is that it is not only a complex story with nonlinear storytelling - it is also written very cryptically, with poems, songs and in-lore literature. It feels like in highschool, trying to decipher what Shakespeare was trying to say. Or even Lord of the Rings, which is also pretty heavy reading in terms of antiquated language. I would say my English is pretty good and I’ve read dozens of books in English, BUT there is no way I would read Malazan in anything other than my native language (which was still difficult enough to achieve).

[@ryanoneal8480]

A reader could skip every poem at the beginning of the chapters and not miss any of the plot though to be fair

[@MaxMustermann-ql2wm]

@@ryanoneal8480 I guess, but thats sth only known in hindsight :) Not saying they're bad either, I like the immersion that comes with that kind of stuff - its just difficult...

[@ryanoneal8480]

@@MaxMustermann-ql2wm it doesn't have to be known in hindsight. My very first read I skipped every single poem cause it's not my thing. It was never confusing because I skipped those. I'm not sure what you mean by confusing. As long as you're not expecting like info dump hand holding there's not much that is straight up confusing.

[@fireblazer6661]

The epigraphs (poems etc) usually go over my head, but I read them and once in a while I have an ahah moment. I always struggled with poetry, even as an honours BA English student and graduate... still struggle with poetry haha

[@ToddsBookTube91]

Todd here. Interesting video. A year ago I read the first three books in the series. I gave up on it because I had no idea what was going on. I want to give it another go to see if I could get attached to the characters the second time around.

[@LadyKestrel23]

What?! I was lost through the first book. Then they fell into place. Researched everything I could afterwards. My favorite books ever. Sad you didn’t enjoy them. My husband is finishing the wheel of time. We read them early on before the series was finished. I’m making my husband read malazan next. Can’t wait for him to be surprised how good they are!

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

There is no series as rewarding to (re)read as Malazan. I think its best to go with the flow. Every time you learn something new that put previous events into a different context it just feels amazing. You have so many "oh shit" moments when you read Malazan and even more when you reread it. I absolutely love it. ^^

[@theritwickkumar]

I binged through the whole Series last year. Took Me 5 months of reading, some 5-6 hours everyday. It's quite the effort and requires dedication as it is, so doing all the additional research and reading up along with it will only make it seem harder and more of a chore than it needs to be. The First Half of every book in the Series is difficult to get into -New Locations, New Characters and setting up of Multiple Events that will play out in The Second Half. Every book is like a collection of stories and there will be ones that will interest you less. Best Thing to do is go with it, just keep reading, remembering names of locations, people and events that's it...don't try to force connections coz usually those come much deep into the series, if they do that is.! There is no overarching plot. It just isn't your typical series. Whole idea is being in another world as a series of epic events take place there and experiencing them through the different characters. I was told to take notes and do all kinda work that I felt would only complicate the experience further. Glad I didn't do any of that. I just kept reading and let Me tell You...It's super rewarding once You are able to get into it... Just keep reading!

[@thebrothersgwynne]

I've been considering startingMalazan for a long while now. I still will do it, but thanks for your advice! (Sword Emoji!) Will

[@libraryofaviking]

I would love to hear your thoughts on it!

[@gavincooke1982]

Throughout the first book and halfway through the second (Deadhouse) I was thinking I might not see this one through to the end of the series, I was spending too much time trying to grasp everything to really let the story grip me. Luckily though I stayed the course, because by the time I had finished book 2 I was invested. Book 3 (memories of ice) hooked me in and is my favourite of the first 8 books. It's not an easy read to begin with for sure, but once it clicks it's truly fantastic. You do have to go in with the mindset that this is going to be a long road and that you aren't supposed to know everything that's going on right now. I started with the intention to just get through the 10 books and say I did it... I've just finished the 16th book and still want more.

[@parcaleste]

It took me to get through the third book (Memories of Ice) to get hooked in. I was all in after that. The thing is, now I am re-reading it and man, this open so many new horizons. This is not a one read through series. There is stuff from the first book that gets explained in the last one - and that's commendable. Just trust the author, that at the end of every book, you'll have the picture of what was going on in that book explained, plus you'll get more perspective on the bigger picture by the time of finishing it.

[@kenh5317]

🗡I’m currently reading book 8, “Toll the Hounds.” I’m not a fan of epic multi-volume fantasy. At 60 yo, long book series feel like a life sentence. However, Malazan has its hooks in me. I Google stuff all the time. I can certainly understand why there readers who are not fans of Malazan. I’m not a fan of Faulkner, despite my efforts to read his works. Just not for me. Same with Game of Thrones. It’s all a matter of taste, not a moral or intellectual failure on the part of the reader.

[@farhad_s]

Loved Malazan, finished it last month. However, I also admit I may have DNF'd the series at some point, if it wasn't for Mike's readalong. Had plenty of help from both the vets and the noobs, and the discussions made it a lot more enjoyable. Then I'd watch a Malazan video by Phillip Chase or A.P, or both, and would figure out I'd missed a lot of things. It's that kind of a series. Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates are actually two of my favourites from the series overall.

[@peterg4130]

It took me like 5 years to get through the first and second book lol. Took 3 tries on book 1, and 2 tries on book 2. I think I initially gave up somewhere midway through the second book for about 2 years before going through a book 1 and 2 recap and continuing on from where I left off in 2020. I'm now finishing up Book 5, and I have to say that Deadhouse Gates and House of Chains are some of my favourite books ever. Memories of Ice was incredible too. Keep at it. Once you get over the hump, it's vastly more enjoyable and you won't regret it. Ps. I'm still pretty confused at times lol

[@michaelvcelentano]

Best advice: take your time! I started the read through with Mike as well. I just finished Book 9 a week ago, but I made sure to put a book or two between reading each Malazan installment. You’ll find that if you can just accept what info you’re given and let it be, it will all eventually be explained.

[@muhammedshibin621]

So you are saying you should go with the flow?

[@johnnyplayer1438]

As many others have said it in your comments already - I, too am very sorry that the series didnt fully pull you in until the end. And granted, I also found the first book very, very weird, but it had something that made me want to continue, so I did some side-reading, just to gather if it was supposed to be like this, or if I was missing anything. So it seemed fine, and I decided to keep reading. Meanwhile, Im reading the series a second time, but even halfway through I was already decided, that for me, it is indeed one of the best series I have ever read. And I would really, really strongly recommend to give it another go (for anyone who just couldnt go on in fact) and read it through to the end. Nearly everything will make much more sense and if you then decide you didnt like it, fair play, but I am almost sure, that if you give it a full go, you cannot help but come to love it whole-heartedly. Keep doing your good work. :)

[@RedFuryBooks]

I freely admit that Malazan does intimidate me a bit! I'll give it a try at some point, but I'm not quite ready! I appreciate your honesty in this video!

[@RedFuryBooks]

Although, now I want to read it sooner rather than later! lol

[@clarkkentnaruto4322]

Hi there. I have read while listening to the first 2 books in Malazan. I had to read and listen to the first book 3 times before I got anything from it. I know how you feel. I am trying to get started on the third book right now. It takes me about a month to get each book done, leaving no room for other series. Meanwhile, at the beginning of this month, I finished listening to the Warrior of the Altaii by Robert Jordan, which has been great. This week, I am listening to Nettle and Bone by T. Kingfisher. The Warrior of the Altaii was the first book that Robert Jordan wrote, but was never published until after his death. His character work is amazing.

[@leedunning1825]

A pity you didn't enjoy it. I still tear up when I recall the ending of Deadhouse Gates. I had no idea the series was considered controversial. Perhaps his shorter, more humorous works about Bauchelain and Korbal Broach would be more enjoyable. They're not nearly so dense and don't have a ton of different things to remember. You'll probably want to steer clear of R. Scott Bakker's books. They're a rather hefty undertaking, and unrelentingly serious.

[@TonyHasnip]

Here's an idea: Try starting with the Path to Ascendancy trilogy. Much lighter read. Much more linear and very enjoyable. It will be an excellent entry point. Follow this up with Night of Knives and then go to Gardens of the Moon. That way; much of the magic, characters and plot will make more sense. This isn't the "recommended" reading order but I think it's an ideal platform particularly for anyone struggling with the first couple of books. I started reading Gardens of the Moon twice and gave up 2/3 of the way through both times. I finally stuck it out on a third attempt and by the end of Memories of Ice, everything slotted into place. I've read them all 3 times now and it's worth that punishing start.

[@mohdaamir5979]

I am currently halfway in deadhouse gates and i am enjoying it more than Gardens of the moon. The plot of an army struggling to survive and travelling in a continent with refugees is just very amazing. But yeah, some storylines really overwhelmes me at times.

[@libraryofaviking]

I am glad you are enjoying it! Happy reading!

[@darinnathan5570]

What an excellent description that mirror my experience of the start of my Mazalan journey, current half way through The Bonehunters some 6 or 7 years after starting Gardens Of The Moon and am loving it. Sometimes I will stop reading one of his books and not come back to it for months. The books make you work as a reader and consequently are deeply satisfying even if some parts of the story leave you bewildered. I intend to read the entire series again once I have completed the series (if I live that long 😂)

[@triciahon8043]

Malazan fan and I've done 4 rereads of the series. My #1 fantasy. Read what you like! Although the way the vid's title is written...it doesn't really indicate you barely read 2 books.

[@Knives7777]

I would consider myself a pretty avid reader I'm about 1/3 of the way through Garden and idk what the fuck is going on, or why I should care, characters don't get time to build up, things places, armies and people are referenced without any groundwork to world building or anything honestly it's just a big shit show. That being said, just as I was about to quit for the 3rd time I ran into Paran and Whiskey Jack, things started getting interesting enough to keep me reading. I'm somewhere around where Tattersail and the 4 high mages with one arm's army gets wrecked the story has gotten interesting at this point but sorry this writing is a giant mess. *Edited for grammar.*

[@montazmeahii6029]

I've tried to read the series so many times only to give up in anger and frustration. My experience reading the first page was something like this: "The stains of rust seemed to map blood seas on the black, pocked surface of Mock's Vane." What does "map blood" mean? Are you trying to say it's rusty? Just say it's rusty. I don't know what a Mock's Vane is but since it's capitalized, I guess it's a proper name... don't worry about it for now. "The winds were contrary the day columns of smoke..." The winds were contrary? Who talks like this? Is the wind blowing the wrong way or something? "The Vane's silence announced the sudden falling-off of the sea breeze that came clambering over the ragged walls of Mock's Hold, then it creaked back into life as the hot, spark-scattered and smoke-filled breath of the Mouse Quarter reached across the city to sweep the promontory's heights." What's a promontory? Are you saying the wind stopped blowing and then started again? Dude. If you can say the wind blew, just say the wind blew. I don't want to re-read every sentence on the first page until it makes sense. I don't like poetry and I don't have time to waste trying to decipher a story I'm not even sure I'll like yet.

[@sobersoul3397]

"Almost feels wrong." No my friend, it is 100% wrong to base a review of a series by just reading 1 and a quarter books in that 26 book series. Just review what you have read. Rename your title to Gardens of the Moon review.

[@amandawilbur451]

I definitely don't have a phd, but I do love Malazan. Sorry, your video does slightly trigger me...you knew you were supposed to go with the flow, but stopping after every chapter for research doesn't really sound like going with the flow. Doing that with any book would sort of ruin any connection with characters and storyline in my opinion 🤷‍♀️⚔️

[@adamaj74]

Well it's kind of hard to "go with the flow" when it means forcing yourself to continue doing something that you find tedious, aggravating, and confusing...

[@NickWebbSax]

I love Malazan - going through one of the ancillary series at the moment. But I do understand how and why people aren't fans. Also, finish book 2. I can't remember the last time a book made me cry that much.

[@libraryofaviking]

People keep telling me to finish book 2! I probably should 🙈

[@coltseavers6298]

Similar here. I am a HUGE The Wheel Of Time fan and have reread it many times. So I finally started reading Malazan, and gave up in book#2's prologue. You made it a bit further than me. LOL Anyway, I will start it again soon and see what happens. BTW, I can recommend reading along with the *TOR* first time read through. The reader is very observant, plus, there is also a Malazan fan who helps out with clues, not really going into spoilers. I suggest that you give the TOR read through a try if you decide to try it again.

[@skellumfh]

Spoilerwarning for Wheel of Time you are more or less a complement to my experiences. I loved Malazan from chapter 2 of the first book to this day and i'm not a fan of WoT. I guess i like it a little bit more than you do Malazan, since i read it all the way through but that could also have been that i had a back injury and thus a lot of time to read. I explicitly don't say "it's bad", but i like the "realistic" feeling of Malazan characters and plot more. WoT felt a bit like a themepark for me (there's the noble Kingdom, the backstabber kingdom, the kingdom with the despotic high lords, the Samurai etc.), and while i hoped for a while that there would be a synthesis (e.g. Rand realizes that humans can only ever be between the creator and the dark one, not 100% on one side or the other) the dichotomy between "Darkfriends" and "those that walk in the light" is never bridged. There are some hints at the theme, like Shadar Logoth and the depiction of the Seanchan's slavery system but in the end everyone is on one side or the other. There were stretches i liked (most of Mat's storyline and speculating whether Rand's voices are really there) but in the end i felt like the most interesting directions remained unexplored.

[@bekananitashvili9221]

Reading "Night of knives" after "Gardens of the moon" really helped me to grasp something. Because I was kinda lost after the first book. And I agree with you, throughout the book I didn't care who would die and who would live. I'm on page 431 in "Deadhouse gates" and I'm starting to root for Crokus and Apsalar😀

[@justjuanreader]

Thanks for sharing your experience! Definitely staying away from this series.

[@amuk3]

My first try at Malazan I gave up, too. I was looking for something new and read some glowing reviews so I went to go buy them but they weren't available in the US yet. I had to order them from the UK, so I ordered all of them that were available in paperback (3, I think) to make the shipping make some kind of sense. You got farther than I did; I didn't even finish Gardens of the Moon. I've read thousands of books but this was too much. Those books I paid all that money to ship across the pond just sat in a box for a few years mocking me whenever I looked in that box for my failure. When I decided to give it another try, it just worked. A few more books had been published and I could get them on my Kindle by that point. I'd never heard of Philip Chase or his "just go with the flow" advice but that's basically what I did. I allowed myself to not hold the entire thing in my head or feel like I always knew what things meant. And it worked. I loved it (the timing worked out well, too, as Crippled God was published right around the time I was finishing Dust of Dreams). I've read most of the Esslemont books, too. It really does reward sticking it out, but you wouldn't be the first or the last person to need a second attempt.

[@pspbsb]

I can totally relate to your view. I stopped reading Deadhouse Gates because I got very confused. Recently I started it again and I have been seeing videos from Iskar commenting on the chapters and it has helped me a lot. So I finished the book today and I very much liked it. Maybe give it another try with some external help like these videos from Iskar. Cheers!

[@laiquende9971]

Are we the same person?? We have the same favorite KZbinrs, reading and watching habits, and we’re in the same spot for Malazan! Good stuff, man!

[@libraryofaviking]

Love this comment! We might be distant family 😅 Thank you for the support!

[@MorpheousXO]

I started reading this way back in high school and loved it from the get go. It definitely just drops you in media res. I think I should finally reread this series...

[@sharxboy]

I got exactly as far as you did so far, then put it on hold. I will say I read Gardens of the Moon a second time before moving on and enjoyed it much more the second time. For me the second book wasn't so much tough to follow, but I found I didn't really care what was going on or who was heading where, I'm sure that reading to the end must have some sort of payoff. I will try the second book again soon. Thanks for the video!

[@Realm_of_Pages]

I massively mega-disagree with you about the series, but I really appreciate this video. You personality as a reader probably doesn't fit the series well. I think we're on the opposite ends of that spectrum you and I, since many of the things you mentioned that didn't work for you are things that I actually LOVE about the series. And that's why it was very enjoyable to watch this video, since you're super good at explaining what didn't work for you. This inspires me to make a video about what kind of person I am as a reader that made me totally fall in love with this series after only 30 pages, and become totally obsessed with it after 150+ pages. Thanks for a great upload!

[@crisnice1]

Your last 4 videos are all brilliant. You're putting out QUALITY

[@libraryofaviking]

Thank you so much!

[@rejiik]

French guy here, I read GotM twice in english and I won't lie, I was super lost the first time, yet you adjust pretty quickly after a while. You just have to go with the flow and you will understand glimpse of it eventually. Good luck!

[@giants8585]

I read the first three and burned out. I actually really liked the third book but didnt have the will to continue. At some point Ill go back. The controversial thing to me is how on every fantasy thread on reddit it always seemed to get recommendations even though it doesnt fit most. Someone asked for great animal companion series and there were ppl saying Malazan lol

[@goat7712]

Sword? Ok. Whatever. I really hope you get back to this series. As a lifelong reader and fantasy fan who has read the whole series, what I recommend is to just read it. Don't overthink, don't try to keep too close a track of who's who. It all becomes clear in time. Entering this series is like falling through a tear in the fabric of reality into another realm, literally. Getting your bearings takes time. Myself, I took several long breaks in the beginning right in the middle of books and came back months later after reading lighter books. But by the time I finished House of Chains I was hooked. Erikson has supplanted and surpassed all others and stands at the very apex of fantasy genius. Do yourself a favor and read on.

[@kyleandstephaniemiller3925]

Duuuude you stopped at the exact wrong spot nyargh!!!! The end of Dead House Gates is like a tidal wave. Aaahhhh lol man I hope you finish it

[@KarelOrlong]

You have a good idea of what to expect from the series now, so I'd suggest you wait unti you're in the mood for the kind of experience the series provides before you try again sometime. As you mentioned, the best advice for the series is to just go with the flow. Think of reading the books as being your preparation. Pretty much anything you don't understand yet is usually because you don't need to yet. By the end of the series you will mostly know what's going on. If you ever do finish it and eventually do a reread, you'll understand pretty much everything and appreciate it 1000 times more. But like some others have commented here, it simply isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[@libraryofaviking]

Exactly! I do believe that I will probably get back to this series someday! Thank you for the respectful comment!