I've Changed My Mind About Man of Steel

[@FullFatVideos]

Please check out all my Snyder Cut final predictions and hopes in the latest video podcast: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anybmWamfs1jjpo Thank you for watching! :D

[@DrWho2008t101]

good work.

[@StareachValcin]

Full Fat Videos, while your videos are excellent, I strongly disagree with your assessment that it's okay for Superman to kill. Superman killing is NOT okay. Superman uses his powers mainly to help people, and only uses his powers to hurt others when there's no alternative. Even when Superman does fight, he holds back so as to not kill anyone. That's the type of hero Superman is.

[@ashroskell]

Enjoyed the video, but I’ve always really loved Man Of Steel. The music is awesome, and I have been known to run the movie just to listen to the score. But, as a more adult take on the Superman genre, it was for me, the best Superman movie ever. That’s just a question of taste, I guess? It payed homage to the first two Christopher Reeve ones, and was original enough to have something clever to say. That, “This man is not our enemy,” scene was the only clanger in it, for me. So hammy, I cringed. But, if you prefer a more camp, bloated Superman, with winks to camera, the older versions will suit you better. This had a real villain, real sense of jeopardy, real stakes and a fun, satisfying conclusion. What’s not to love? It’s in my top 10 Superhero Movies.

[@ashroskell]

@@StareachValcin : For me, the killing of Zod was the perfect ending. His loss of the last of his own kind, and all that, was brilliantly dramatic. It’s, “not OK,” but it’s not OK for Kal El either. Superman is broken hearted because of it. No? Well, just an opinion. ✌️

[@AlyssMa7rin]

This was a great video! I do think, though, that the scene where Superman kills Zod is the most emotionally affecting scene of all superhero films (Save for maybe when Tony gets stabbed or Thanos snaps) Superman begged Zod to stop, he did everything he could to stop him, but Zod finally revealed his intentions when he said "Never!" Michael Shannon's acting was spectacular. The pain in Zod's voice when he says those words is a near physical wound. He had *nothing* to lose, and so Superman could not reason with him. It forced Kal to make the choice. To *defend* the Earth. I'd like to remind everyone that Superman kills the faceless hordes of monsters that the big bosses send toward the Justice League, and he even killed Zod in Superman 2.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Superman kills Zod in Superman 2: Smiles and walks away Superman kills Zod in MOS: Silence, then the shock that he possibly killed one of the last people of his species.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

I love that people forget that

[@ryansmith-jr4gn]

He didn't kill Zod in Superman 2.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@ryansmith-jr4gn Yes he did. He removed his power, broke his hand and tosses his down to his death from the fortress of solitude.

[@Ellie_deMayo]

Wait, weren’t they arrested in Superman 2?

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@Ellie_deMayo at the beginning,yes. But I'm talking about the ending to Superman 2.

[@rangedlime]

Personally I don’t think Henry Cavill gets enough credit. You can argue he doesn’t really do much beyond look a bit sad and sometimes smile but he really manages to convey a sympathetic and likeable character

[@beancheesedip8337]

Thats something that annoys me. Even if you don't like Snyder's vision of Superman, a lot of the blame gets leveled at Henry Cavill, rather than on the writing and direction. Personally, I do enjoy the different take on Supes, but even if I didn't, it wouldn't be Cavill's fault, it would be Goyer and Snyder's. Edit: a lot of the blame *did* get put on Cavill at the time, to be clear. Now the internet decided we're allowed to like Cavill because he was in The Witcher.

[@AbsoluteAbsurd]

@@beancheesedip8337 Fuck the internet.

[@sweetviolents29]

I just rewatched MoS and the way I see it is this: Snyder directed an ethical horror movie about a man who, despite his superhuman physical strength, was too weak to decide for himself who he wanted to be and then Snyder neglected to tell the lead actor he'd be playing the villain of his own story.

[@Liquidruby5]

And also, Henry Cavill *actually* reads the comics or some of them. When he was doing the scene with the oil rig collapses, he was told by Snyder to shave his chest hair off. But Cavill said "No. Superman has chest hair." He's referencing the famous scene in The Death Of Superman graphic novel. Where he had chest hair.

[@sweetviolents29]

@@Liquidruby5 Wow. That's really sad. Major problems with Snyder's direction/communication for sure.

[@JS-jg7iv]

BvS Batman is definitely the “live long enough to see yourself become the villain” version of Batman

[@kimjiro4591]

"We have always been criminals, Alfred. nothing changed" - Bruce in BvS

[@burncycle4621]

This is a great description of this Batman. Bringing the references full circle, I like it.

[@Robo5apien]

He brands criminals and they get beaten in prison by other criminals... what? Why..

[@shardofkingdoms9816]

It seems like the finale of a trilogy that never happened

[@chrisdee1583]

@@Robo5apien he brands the worst criminals aka child traffickers so they get basically smashed in prison or killed.Its not rocket science.

[@Andy_Rose90]

Snapping Zod's neck isn't just about saving that one family in that specific moment, but it's about stopping Zod before he literally becomes unstoppable. Watch the final confrontation again and pay attention to how the tables start to turn during the fight. Zod was specifically engineered to be a disciplied, ruthless and efficient fighter and killer. It takes him mere hours to adapt to earths atmosphere and to control his eyes, whereas Clark had a breakdown as a child. Zod masters the ability to fly almost immediately after his battle armor is destroyed, Clarke required many years. The only reason Superman has got an edge in the beginning is because he has had years to absorb sunlight and because Zod isn't fully aware of his own powers yet. However, given enough time, this version of Zod would quickly become powerful enough to easily overpower Superman and wipe out humanity. The moment when Superman kills Zod, may very well have been his last opportunity to do so.

[@TSEDLE333]

Shhhhhhh....You're making too much sense.... this will make the MoS haters attack you... To this day people CANNOT understand such a SIMPLE concept as what you wrote( in fact, a few comments above you people are debating, stupidly I might add, about how Superman should have done anything but kill Zod, that he should've captured him and so on and so forth...these suckers seem to NOT have seen the movie at all...or don't have a smidge of common sense at all)...they just want to hate MoS no matter what...

[@lumpystilskin5367]

In other words, supes' acts are justified 👍

[@koichidignitythief7429]

Not to mention Zod's last words were "Never" when Clark pleaded for him to stop. Zod had no intentions to stop his rampage.

[@batcavedave2535]

Excellent comment, I've been having the same debate with someone else recently. I admittedly hated man of steel when I first watched it but re-watched it last year with an open mind and it's now 1 of my favourite films. I don't think I have ever changed my opinion of a film like I have with man of steel.

[@Strato_Casterrr9898]

FINALLY!!!! SOMEONE POINTS THAT OUT!

[@michiganjack1337]

Don't sleep on Michael Shannon's Zod, that portrayal was superb.

[@prolastmedia6171]

"I WILL FIND HIM!!!!!"

[@amonero1]

He was superb

[@sublime8956]

Anytime I see Cavill as Superman, I want to be a better man. Russell Crowe’s line “you will give people an ideal to strive for” hits home like nothing else, because Cavill embodies that in every way

[@pastordonkoh7692]

"you can save her Kal, you can save all of them" 🥶🥶🥶

[@sublime8956]

@@pastordonkoh7692 favorite scene right there

[@aaronmosmeyer6315]

That line is actually from the amazingly beautiful comic All Star Superman. Really love that it was used in this film.

[@ryans.4715]

Yeah this guy has literally lost his mind sayin the man of steel wasn’t good or maybe good. He’s on fucking drugs. It’s awesome af. And better than most of all the mcu movies aside from a few of them like infinity and end.

[@vietnameeseguy]

“Embodied in that hope, is the fundamental belief that every person can be a force for good” that’s what hits me the most

[@lindaunderling4637]

People were upset that he snapped the villains neck. People didn't seem to understand, he snapoed the neck of the last of his kind.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Well not really, the others are just trapped in the phantom zone and Kara is confirmed alive now she is appearing in the Flash movie.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@Neo's danger he did know about the other Kryptonians since he just sent them there. Superman only kills when he needs to. Now it's debatable about him killing Zod, he could have incapacitated him, but your point is legit and something I have done about also.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@hunchovari re read my comment

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@hunchovari knock him out, aim his head toward the ground or the sky, blind him then send him to the phantom zone.

[@hexum7]

@Neo's danger and they forgot that Superman killed Zod and two other kryptonians (after they were powerless) at the end of Superman 2. I mean, sure, they were. Total dicks, but they weren’t about to laser a family. But it’s sure fun to pretend that classic Superman never kills if it fuels your whining

[@tylermoran111]

I’ve never understood why people hated Zod’s death. He didn’t want to do that at all, and was devastated by it. He did it because he was going to murder a family. They always leave that part out.

[@Dagenspear]

I think it's poorly done, with a tonal inconsistency afterwards and that it was a pointless situation that isn't shown or said in the movies to mean much for the character of Clark.

[@lilmovieperp3599]

nah people just think that superman should've covered his eyes with his hands.

[@tylermoran111]

@@lilmovieperp3599 and you think that beams coming out of another kryptonians eyes wouldn’t just burn through his hand?

[@lilmovieperp3599]

@@tylermoran111 don't know. he didn't try.

[@doggo9388]

@@lilmovieperp3599 you miss the point. It wasn’t about the family and it wasn’t about the lasers. It is the principle that nothing was going to stop Zod, he had to kill him or else the Earth would be destroyed.

[@Lautrekc]

Wtf is Supe supposed to do with zod? Their no phantom zone left. No shackle can handle zod. He won't stop at nothing

[@icemav5740]

@Hot Rod I just hate how people are like "ahhh superman snapped zods neck thats not who superman is reeeeeee!" And then they love when Reeve killed Zod with a big smile on his face, with no emotional consequence whatsoever

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@icemav5740 yeah I think it makes much more sense for superman to have a lot of moral consequences for killing.

[@jacobcurle8964]

I’m kinda torn on the issue of Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel. On the one hand, I agree that he has no choice. On the other hand, I wish that the writers had made it so that he did have a choice.

[@OsSas3]

Yeah, cause no writer could've made possible to trap Zod in the Phantom Zone BEFORE the ship exploted. Snyder and Goyer wanted to made Superman killed but no real reason was behind that: Does that mean he would kill again if he need it to? Is it good to kill? There's no deep meaning about that route, just shock value.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@OsSas3 i disagree...the phantom zone is nothing but a plot device to get superman past moral dilemmas and would ruin the more realistic tone of the movie. This is like saying it a bad thing to do for the seal that killed Bin Laden. Just that Zod is basically a god.

[@user-ns3vs3bp3e]

I never had a problem with the neck snap because Zod literally said he’d never stop. It’s not just about saving that one family, it’s about saving everyone. Nobody else can stop Zod, nobody/nothing can hold him on earth apart from superman and even then it took him basically destroying a city killing a bunch of innocent people to barely win the fight, what happens when superman somehow restrains him in that scene then Zod gets free later but doesn’t lose the fight the next time? He probably half destroys the world or something idk, I took it as the only option to keep people safe.

[@Psycorde]

It all makes sense, people should get over themselves.

[@shealupkes]

I think mos is missing something though, sure he just saved the entire world and that might be enough for him, or you, or me, but the reason it's out of character is because that isn't and has never been enough for Clark, even after his emotional breakdown he'd still steel his revolve and start going around the city helping people out of the rubble and the film should have shown that.

[@gilet102]

Let’s not mention Zod is a military general with combat training. He was actively getting stronger throughout the fight, he achieved flight and heat vision despite being under the yellow sun for a couple of hours. Superman may have won this time but he’s been living under the yellow sun for years so he was able to subdue him. If they had fought again Superman would not have won. Zod’s combat training plus gaining full super strength from the sun radiation would’ve been almost impossible to take down

[@tristanskywalker1998]

The neck snap was Superman realizing that killing Zod was the only way to stop him. Zod trying to kill the family was the evidence that his only purpose at that point was to kill as many humans as possible until either he died or Superman did, backing up what he said earlier in the fight.

[@junaydfisher211]

@@gilet102 not to mention that he had to stop the world Terra forming machine and the other kryptonians zod brought with.

[@lolcats987654321]

Honestly never had a problem with mos 🤷‍♂️

[@joeclaridy]

Same

[@asmrbully6980]

same

[@9751matt]

I disagree. Man of Steel is still pretty bad. Its just not an entertaining or good movie. Snyder fans just were left in an empty echo chamber for too long. MoS and BvS are reasons DC has a reputation for movies that aren't fun.

[@asmrbully6980]

@@9751matt and i like it that way

[@9751matt]

@@asmrbully6980 Good for you. I like watching good movies, or movies so bad you can riff endlessly. BvS was hilariously horrible, but MoS was just the boring kind of not good.

[@tristanskywalker1998]

Man of Steel is my favorite superhero movie of all time. As a diehard Superman fan, this is the definitive Superman movie for me. Henry Cavill is perfect in the role.

[@browndestroyer3016]

Agreed

[@johnmichaelfidler8499]

Yes, very few actors could possibly live up to Reeves legacy. Cavill is one of them.

[@EverlastGX]

This movie is so great. It almost bring me tears because it resonates so much in me

[@tauhid9983]

how is it a definite superman movie when it doesn't even get the character of superman right. It redefined the iconic image rather than sticking to the source material

[@tristanskywalker1998]

@@tauhid9983 That's just it. I don't think a good version of the character has to stick to the source material. I think he's the definitive version of Superman, because he's my favorite version of the character that we've ever gotten.

[@stephenramsey5585]

Given you were willing to give Man of Steel another shot, can I recomend the Ultimate Edition of BvS? It's a much better film than the theatrical release.

[@Tyler_W]

Definitely. The film flows much better, and the plot amd character motivations actually makes sense. Really important plot scenes (that the studio removed) were put back in, and Superman in particular gets all of his character development back. The movie also actually agrees that what Batman does is wrong, and his story is about a broken man who lost his way and is eventually shaken back to his senses akd redeemed by the example of Superman. Superman, the guy whose goal is to inspire others to be the best version of themselves, does exactly that for Batman. His example redeems his mission amd drives him to be the Batman he was always meamt to be. If one's conclusion is that this is what Batman should be, then the analysis is already off on the wrong foot. Twin Perfect, among other channels, do a great job of breakijg down these characters amd the plot in that movie. The Ultimate Edition still isn't perfect in my opinion, but it's much more than it appears on firat glance, and it deconstructs them not with the intention to just tear them down, but to build them back up into the kind of iconic heroes they were always meant to be.

[@Calman102]

Ultimate Edition is the only version worth watching. They cut so much out of the first act of the theatrical release that you have no real idea why several of the things are happening.

[@kovian101]

Ultimate Edition is the proper sequel to MOS. i hate WB tto cut the running time both JL and Bvs . its lost the context and soul of the movies

[@akshayironheart]

True true

[@aaronlockley9207]

Very true, far better movie

[@bloodthirstyworks]

Jor El says "They will stumble, they will fall. But in time they will join you in the sun." No truer words have been spoken....

[@felipeherrera6507]

now that Snyder cut is out, that phrase means so much

[@crimsonjedi]

@@andersondalmeus1406 didn't the justice league join him in the sun at the end of ZSJL? That's progress

[@hello-gx6oi]

@@andersondalmeus1406 and we have avengers endgame with alot of plotholes yet praised

[@WolfEpsilon]

@@andersondalmeus1406 shut the fuck up kid.

[@theverticalgamer5660]

Me watching people starting to appreciate Man of Steel after all this years: "Men are still good"

[@chriswheeler3123]

You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal.

[@chaosjoerg9811]

Next the revelation: Venom is actually a really good movie.

[@chriswheeler3123]

@@chaosjoerg9811 I really like venom too, great movie!

[@bhuvaneshs.k638]

@@chriswheeler3123 goosbemups

[@porassrivastava8242]

@@chriswheeler3123 venom is good if you see it as a cartoon. As a serious movie? It's dumpster

[@King_Mac80]

Man of Steel is criminally underrated it's a pretty damn good movie...the theatrical cut of BVS missed the mark because ppl panned MOS and WB messed up Snyders vision

[@mohammedhussain6749]

It’s far too slow

[@King_Mac80]

@@mohammedhussain6749 what's to slow?

[@heimdallstatus1376]

Now 2021 everyone almost 70 percentage of people realised that mos is the best

[@prolastmedia6171]

@@mohammedhussain6749 Only thing too slow is you, MoS is a goated film and far and away the most *dynamic* version of Superman portrayed in live action

[@mohammedhussain6749]

@@prolastmedia6171 ah yes I must attack this person for having an opinion. Literally are thousands of people that hate this movie as it ruins superman the character. This movie is the first step down a rabbit hole of failure and incompetence. I’m so happy they’re getting rid of this pile of shit and starting a new with actually honouring the source material

[@datboigroovin8200]

I really love the first half of this movie. As someone with high functioning autism it was really cool to see Superman struggle with sensory overload as a kid. It was inspiring that a character who’s always portrayed as the perfect being in a way struggling with something I could relate too in that way.

[@GuruPrashanth7970]

Exactly! So many people with autism found it relatable. Love it so much!

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I didn't even notice it at first, but glad someone point it out.

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

Having been diagnosed Autistic very recently, this comment sent me back to 2013 where I absolutely sympathised with Young Clarks Sensory Overload and now I have that understanding as to why I sympathised.

[@kazaam5459]

Thanks for sharing that about yourself. I’ve always loved this movie, and yours is a perspective I haven’t considered before, which only amplifies my appreciation of the film.

[@cheeks3211]

He's never been portrayed like that, maybe in the very old comics books. but smallville, superman returns, Richard donner's first two films have a lot of character building and show different aspects of clark/kal-el.

[@OwenLikesComics]

I'm just here to say how much I appreciated the Steiner Math reference. THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE!

[@DepravedCoTApologist]

It's one of those memes that hasn't been ran into the ground, so it stays funny even years later

[@RbkARI]

What is this, a crossover episode?

[@bigboydancannon4325]

And they spell DISASTER for you at SACRIFICE

[@bigboydancannon4325]

@Meta Man Tldr

[@2KOOLURATOOLGaming]

@@bigboydancannon4325 They've posted this on every comment....

[@GoldeneyeDoubleO7]

MoS ranks up there for me. I actually like that they showed the strength of Superman and Kryptonians in general. I was also a big fan of how they took the cliche "take over the world/destroy the world trope" but made it more complex.

[@stephenramsey5585]

My only real issue with this film was that Zod didn't just decide to terraform (Kryptoform?) Mars instead, but this video makes a good point of highlighting that Zod litterally can't percieve solutions that don't involve conflict or conquest - it's all he's genetically programmed to know - so I guess I'll forgive that.

[@2KOOLURATOOLGaming]

@@stephenramsey5585 Also, we aren't sure how well they can actually terraform. The World engine was said to be increasing Earth's Mass so they'd have needed to do that a lot more for Mars. Earth would've also been an enemy right from the start, especially fearful of the advanced Kryptonians. Terraforming Earth would've been a quick way to stop any losses in conflict.

[@dubztv741]

Exactly I totally agree I loved that this film raised the stakes for superman

[@GoldeneyeDoubleO7]

@@stephenramsey5585 Zod also needed the codex for making new kryptonians which was in Superman's body and wanted revenge againt Jor El. So he had to go to Earth and since he was on Earth, might as well terraform it.

[@alexsookhoo9919]

great scenario, explains everything properly, zod wanted to save his people, he could rebuild it all using the world machine and the codex in kal el, he could bring back the people he coukdnt protect, he could bring back the world he failed, it all made us empathize with him and superman both, zod just wanted salvation, superman just wanted to protect what's in front of him

[@valentinolopez8528]

I will never understand why people don’t love this movie. It’s like people watch a different movie then I did

[@MrREAPERsz]

I can understand why people don't like it. It's dreary, grey and has a depression type of vibe to it. Superman at the very least is supposed to have some character/charisma. That being said I love this movie. It's the closest thing to a dbz movie for me.

[@nensha5084]

@@MrREAPERsz I appreciate the serious undertone to DC tho. How would people react if they copied MCU's recipe? Exactly. They're trying to be different, and its apparent. It works too. Do you see Superman, a Jesus Christ metaphor, (or even Batman, the embodiment of darkness) to be snapping clever remarks and witty jokes like tictac's every other minute? Because I don't.

[@haku8135]

Because it's a pile of ass. I could spend HOURS just listing the plot holes. Then Superman isn't even in the movie, Clark just spends most of his time doing nothing, EVENTUALLY getting his shit partially together when THE ENTIRE WORLD is threatened. He literally STARTS by saving the whole world, GREAT ROOM FOR GROWTH GUYS! He NEVER actively decided he was going to save people. Shit, he killed more people than he saved, directly at least since he did break the terraformer. Which btw is one of the plot holes. He's selfish, his parent's characters were MUTILATED, holy fucking shit THEY MADE HIS FATHER SAY THAT LINE! REAL Superman would die to save a CAT, because he CAN save it. That's what SUPERMAN is. This guy is so petty he destroyed a guy's truck because he was slightly annoying. He's also so oblivious he lets a woman get nearly killed and NOT KNOWING ANY MEDICAL TECHNIQUES decides shooting her with a laser will make it better. Literally watched his father die in a tornado, NO. This film, shits all over Superman. It'd be like making a Batman movie where Batman carried guns and just shoots and kills people all the..... Oh right. Did he ever take disadvantage in a fight to save someone? No. Did he ever try to draw the fight out of populated areas? No. Did he ever use his x ray vision to see which building he could throw Zod into without hurting someone? No. Did he even tell the cops how to keep people safe, where they need to make a perimeter or anything? No. Did he TRY not to kill a man? No, he did it IMMEDIATELY. Does he even interact with humans and have friends and close bonds? Fucking. No. He became a fucking hermit he has NO FRIENDS ANYWHERE. Clark Kent wasn't even a character except in flashbacks where his dad said to let kids drown. This movie is trash.

[@MrREAPERsz]

@@nensha5084 its superman. It's not supposed to be dark and dreary. It doesn't have to copy marvel, but it doesn't have to be depressing.

[@Crafted_XP]

@@haku8135 damn bro it's like you missed the whole point if the movie and then some. I couldn't imagine watching Man of Steel and taking all that away from the movie. The movie is called Man of Steel my guy, the person you are describing is Superman. Although it is a Superman movie we do not really get to see the Superman we all know and love. Outside of that that MoS is a different, and exceptionally done, take on the character he is also just starting out. Just finding his place in the world. He wants to help but isn't ready to make himself known. The whole movie is about his inter personal struggle. The whole movie is about him discovering what being Superman means. It is not a Superman film it is a classic heros journey tale. I know none if this is going to change your mind, but damn you have some horrible take aways if that's truly how you feel.

[@pivotresearchfoundation]

“Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones... but you still have to choose.” *damn... heavy*

[@haku8135]

*flies away* Seems like a pretty good choice. Choke him out, use the loads of kryptonian technology to contain him.

[@thenorthremembers728]

@@haku8135 Yeah ofc Superman would know everything about kryptonian technology.🤦🏾‍♂️

[@raitorino7520]

@@haku8135 Dude. You're everywhere replying like this. If you choke someone unconscious they'll wake up in seconds. If we apply hollywood logic, Zod's still going to break out of any prison whether it be underground or wherever because he's still got reserves of the sun energy. The world or Superman isn't going to figure out how to work kryptonian technology in the time it takes for Zod to start waking up. You're hating out of your ass

[@xpressjustice542]

@@raitorino7520 exactly zod would litteraly go Omni man style on the entire planet every opportunity and Superman might not be able to stop him next time

[@Metalton95]

And then Cavill portrayed Geralt in The Witcher... :D

[@MyPhilcat]

BvS never meant that it was okay to kill for Batman, instead the whole movie shadowed on self realization of Batman and how Superman inspired him to have hope.

[@Luey_Luey]

yeah but its different from my comics and saturday morning cartoons so its wrong and i hate it forever

[@genghiskhan7691]

yet he starts killing people after sparing Supes, so no point. I guess Snyder only read one Batman comic

[@darkfire2942]

@@genghiskhan7691 it’s not like he just has a complete 180 after sparing with supes.

[@genghiskhan7691]

@@darkfire2942 Yeah but still, Batman shouldn't been that much careless

[@darkfire2942]

@@genghiskhan7691 dude that’s the point of the more older grisly Batman we got. He didn’t care, and even from that point, still didn’t. Like said, I don’t expect a 180 on his character right after sparing with supes.

[@AudioArcturia]

Man of Steel is beautiful. It doesn't need to be perfect - it can still be beautiful: beautifully acted, filmed and ashamedly will not get a genuine sequel.

[@cookieelement3467]

Man of Steel 2 got replaced by “we need a movie to snipe the money Civil War is going to get!” Warner Bros could have such an awesome set of stories building to an epic climax right now. Instead we have multiple missteps and a quintessential movie reshot and re cut. We wouldn’t have needed the Snyder Cut if they just did it right the first time.

[@mpdmpd8118]

not even nominated its a shame

[@adriboy01]

@@cookieelement3467 WB can go fuck themsleves. Introducing all these new universes just because you have no idea what to do, everything will feel so disconnected now. Also, they have hired JJ Abrams to make a new Superman movie which involves a black lead, which tells me that they care more about pandering to general audiences than they do about the characters.

[@cookieelement3467]

​@@adriboy01 Its actually so much worse to rewrite an existing character like this because it is pandering and pretty much broadcasts "we don't actually care enough to make something knew so here are some sloppy seconds". Kinda pointless to have a diverse message that is also a lazy cash grab. Snyder can make great movies if he has the time to build them out but WB is never giving him enough time again, not when fast = money.

[@LordMalice6d9]

A Man of Steel 2 with Brainiac as the main villain would have been great. But a shame it will never happen.

[@jair9474]

Henry Cavill deserves better. Mission Impossible shows he is great.

[@mattbryant8320]

The Witcher bro. The Witcher.

[@paulwillard81]

MoS was that film though. MoS is an incredible film. Never deserved the hate that it got. It's arguably better than the first Wonder Woman.

[@sasook]

@@paulwillard81 It IS better than the first WW, though it’s close

[@TheIRedemption]

@@mattbryant8320 man from uncle too, cavil killed that

[@mattbryant8320]

@@TheIRedemption oh yeah i forgot about that movie. It was good.

[@TheRealAmericanMan]

Batman V Superman is one of my most hated films of all time But I saw “Ultimate Edition” a few weeks ago and think that actually kind of rules?

[@ejiro241]

I joined the bandwagon who hated on BvS. However when i watched the extended cut i came to a conclusion that the critics were wrong.

[@disgracecentral]

We often find that certain things get better with time. Also the way it's cut gives a lot more context and weight to the story and feels way less rushed and like a trailer lmak

[@TheRealAmericanMan]

I mean I wouldn’t say “the critics were wrong” more that the studio butchered a good movie into an utterly unwatchable one

[@ElPresidenteMargz]

But that’s the problem .. why does it have to resort to a Directors Cut to finally see the appropriate vision of the film and when it comes out finally , people don’t give a shit anymore cuz they already have the negative notion of the theatrical release and that notion is so hard to change.

[@ejiro241]

@@TheRealAmericanMan They were wrong. The theatrical cut was all over the place and i agree but for it to be 28% on RT? Really? That made no sense. I didnt like the theatrical cut but that score alone was a joke? It was then i realized how biased these critics were.

[@foggypenguin5317]

I love how he says 'both my hearts' as if he's a time lord

[@ebi_tempura]

There is a condition where a person can be born with two hearts

[@narakarrarr6191]

@@ebi_tempura no way, that's crazy

[@igbotimehopper64yearsago46]

i am the only time lord in all of creation.

[@Ninlox]

@Meta Man what is ur issue u have said the same thing like 30 times

[@geoscope3399]

I thought it was a reference to Snyder failing both Superman and Batman but knowing this channel that actually makes a lot more sense

[@abhiramsanthosh8548]

Man of steel showed how a live action DBZ movie should have been made 🖤🔥

[@finalcam1740]

Best super hero fight scenes from any movie imo. Maybe captain America Civil War competes.

[@queenb2450]

@@finalcam1740 Nah, Winter Soldier had a better fight than Civil War, but in terms of things we haven't seen before, MOS takes it

[@finalcam1740]

@@queenb2450 ill have to watch that again some time I've only seen it once.

[@finalcam1740]

Was that a nod tp napa when the big guy jumped into the air and took out those warthogs with his bare hands? Had to be right.

[@airstrider9886]

Anyone else think it has some of the best superpower fight scenes ever made

[@jesusiracheta8570]

Yup definitely, it blew me away the first time I saw it in the theaters.

[@klarizzaj505]

I did! It was breathtaking the first time I saw it.

[@hellolongden]

It has the "entertainment" & "realistic", not like MCU

[@benshelley3544]

When the hologram of Jor El tells Clark that he "can save all of them" was special to me. It as at once personal and writ large, sensible and hyperbolic. Superman starts to reconcile his capacity for the greatest feats and how to exist a a human.

[@B-Dad]

Clark killing Zod and doing the same scream that he had when his father died...kills me. He recognizes how much this one life means to him. It kills him to kill Zod. That’s Superman. 🤷🏾‍♂️👍🏾👍🏾

[@NoPantsBaby]

It means nothing to him. It should mean nothing to him. He just lasered Kryptonian babies with his eyes. He doesn't care. The movie is hoping you didn't remember him literally saying "Krypton had it's chance." *fires laser beams* killing all remaining Krypton Embryos. He didn't care. You forgot this scene.

[@snatchadams69]

It wasn't earned though Clark had no connection to Zod other than they were the same species that's it...

[@B-Dad]

@@NoPantsBaby Those aren’t babies....they are creations! Clark was the only born Kryptonian we ever met! Even Jor-El was a creation 🤷🏾‍♂️✌🏾

[@B-Dad]

@@snatchadams69 Wasn’t earned? Hate it if you want. Find fault with it if you will. But miss me with that nonsense! They were his people...the last of his people. And they were a threat he couldn’t stop! He had one choice and he made it even tho it hurt him to do so. THATS EARNING IT 🤦🏾‍♂️😂

[@junaydfisher211]

@@B-Dad yes, superman also didn't want to kill. He was pretty much a pacifist the whole movie, then zod came and forced him to get violent. He wanted superman to get violent as well and by forcing him to kill he got what he wanted. Zod was a great villain. I think superman scream was more because his values were compromised.

[@mr.moviemafia]

Batman not being supposed to kill is the point of Batman’s journey in BVS. Him choosing NOT to brand Lex Luthor and have him killed at the end is representative of his character journey. Bruce has fallen, but learns how to become Batman again.

[@neareed9241]

@@andersondalmeus1406 I mean he's been batman for 20 years. Bale's batman peaced out and retired before he could get as jaded as Affleck's batman. BVS batman has seen some shit and he's tired of it. "Criminals are like weeds alfred". He's lost his way because nothing seems to be working. So he breaks his no kill rule because he doesn't see another way out. His arc is about redemption. And the reason why that redemption is so important is because the world is so different from when he was in his prime. Godlike beings like superman and wonder woman openly walk the earth. At the beginning of the movie he basically tells alfred that his entire career as batman was pointless. Because he's so broken that he thinks all his work as batman didn't really do the world any good. So he thinks his legacy is to save the world by killing superman but now he knows that's not true. His legacy is save the world by uniting the justice league, in his final years as batman, to save the world from the inevitable threat: Darkseid. Idk. As a lifelong batman fan, that's really compelling to me lol.

[@neareed9241]

@@andersondalmeus1406 but the movie isn’t about him falling and getting more broken? He’s already a broken man at the start. It’s about him rising and redeeming himself. The shot of young Bruce Wayne being lifted by the bats into the light is visual foreshadowing of that. And what I described is literally the story of the movie lmao. You keep comparing afflecks Batman to bales Batman. They both may be Batman, but they are telling fundamentally different stories. Bales batman’s ultimate goal was to create a symbol. Become more than just a man so that justice can be preserved long after he leaves the mantle of Batman. Afflecks Batman has different motivations. For him the symbol of Batman has failed. Criminals still keep coming back after 20 yrs of crime fighting. His motivation is about legacy. The story of redeeming himself and finding his true legacy is the most important part of that character’s life. Just because one story is different from the other doesn’t make one inherently better or worse. They are both valid takes on the Batman.

[@bricktop9486]

@@andersondalmeus1406 apparently zack wanted to make a prequel about batman which included robin getting killer but dc refused it.

[@ebrahimmunsif]

@@andersondalmeus1406 for me I liked bVs. It showed Batman going from a broken man to the hero we know

[@burncycle4621]

@@andersondalmeus1406 It doesn't need to be shown. Starting the story later in life, as a broken Batman is a great choice from a narrative point of view. Everyone knows Batman, which is why we don't have to see his origins in every take. This way it's left to the imagination as to what pushed him over.

[@DoritosJackd]

People will do anything except admit they like Zack’s movies lmao

[@MechanicWolf85]

One thing I do defend this movie was the city fight scene, people complain that superman was fighting zod in the city and wrecking havick but you clearly see that superman is trying to kick zod out of the city but zod (the experienced, militaristic, master martial artist) punch superman through every building in order to cause more chaos out of spite People ho have never had been in a bar fight will realize you can't control a fight nor direct it to were you want it to go, things are going to brake and the people in the way are going to be hit

[@bsl4762]

People forget he did the exact same thing fighting darkseid in the animated show or when he was fighting Doomsday in the comics. People are hypocrits

[@mannyfresh03]

@@bsl4762 yeah but did those version of superman jump over truck and let it blow up a building. I wouldn't mind the destruction as much if he did more to prevent it like in those fights you mentioned. Like obviously a fight against darkseid and doomsday would cause major damage, but most of that damage is caused by them rather than the heroes trying to stop them. I think people would be less mad if after the fight it showed him helping out and looking for survivors and all that.

[@bsl4762]

@@mannyfresh03 ??? Tf u want bruh to do catch it & Gently put the truck to safety ? Wtf are those complaints

[@bsl4762]

@@mannyfresh03 in Batman v superman , superman is helping survivors of the lex luthor Capitol attack , There's litteraly a scene of superman saving people from a burning building & a sinking ship. Have you actually watched those movies bruh

[@berniet1215]

@@bsl4762 noo real life movies & animated movies, we expect different stuff. Animation movies u are less attacked so u don’t care. Real life u care more coz u can see yourself in that position & makes it more realistic.

[@Courageous91]

On the subject of the "No Kill Rule" I'm reminded of the Under the Red Hood movie as to why Batman doesn't kill. "It would be too damn easy. But if I cross that line; there's no going back" That is what I think whenever I hear people say "Batman should just kill Joker" because it's the core of Batman's character. Meanwhile, you have Superman. "I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard. Always taking care not to break something. To break someone." He pulls his punches to not kill people and cause damage because he chooses to. Of course, there is the second part of this quote. "But you can take it, can't you, Big Man? Here we have a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am!" Superman chooses to because he knows he could bring the world down if he doesn't. Batman has to because of he does, he'll never stop.

[@designatedpiledriver8216]

Superman has killed plenty across the history of the character. Batman has killed also even in the movies but people seem to just ignore this. None of these things are what the Snyder movies are about. These movies delve in the why’s and also take deep dives into who these characters are. It’s just too basic to be like “oh they don’t kill” it just means you aren’t getting the point. No disrespect

[@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ]

Which is why he is the way he is in BvS. Because he walked the line that should never be walked

[@Courageous91]

@@designatedpiledriver8216 - I am fully aware of the fact that Superman has killed but he would only do so when there is no other way of stopping a threat. Even then, he will not do so if he can help it. The only threat he would be happy to kill is Darkseid but that's purely because Darkseid is irredeemable in his evil. Never use the movies to say to me Batman can kill. Sorry, no. I don't care of Batman burned someone alive with the Batmobile in the Batman movies of the 80s and the 90s, Batman doesn't kill. And it's for the reason I stated in the quote; If Batman does, he will not stop because the line has been crossed. Batman's reason is simple; so no other 8 year old boy grows up without their parents.

[@wyterabitt2149]

@@Courageous91 Batman has killed many times in the comics, from the very first appearances.

[@adamroades405]

I think the "no going back" quality is built into the Batman character of BvS. Vengeance has corrupted into cruelty after decades of disillusionment with the arrival of super powered aliens being a straw the broke the camel's back. How can Batman hope to make dent in that kind of threat with the handicap of his moral code? That's what he thinks until he's on the brink of calculated cold-blooded murder. But Superman is able to bring him back from the brink and reinspire a jaded Batman. I feel like the execution of the story can be debated, but as a concept, it's pretty compelling.

[@SouthpawSatch]

I loved MoS when it was released and I still feel inspired whenever I watch it

[@rk800android]

@Bruce Wayne same

[@georgefranklin2430]

I really think the hate came from MCU trolls

[@rk800android]

@@georgefranklin2430 Not all of them, but mostly

[@superheroalerts3761]

Yoda bingo....they saw a good film, knew it was a good film, but just couldn't bring themselves to praise it so they crapped all over it 👎🏾 but it goes both ways though as I've seen some DC trolls on the internets saying that IW & Endgame suck 😳 I mean like wtf 🤷🏾‍♂️ come on guys are you actually fans of this genre or not 🤷🏾‍♂️ smh 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@rk800android]

@@superheroalerts3761 K

[@BeeMillah25]

Man of Steel focused more on the fact that Kal-El is an alien. An alien who chooses to protect earth and it's inhabitants who he has grown to love. I love the movie for this reason. It's my favorite Superman movie. Seeing his planet in great detail, how similar his Kryptonian parents and Earthly are, and actually seeing him all out fighting other supes was incredible. Past movies focused more on his strongman competition skills lol. Not to mention the score by Hans Zimmer was PERFECT!

[@dissolution]

I always loved this movie honestly.

[@raulcalva1543]

Yo también :3

[@mvdwraptor7983]

When you hear FFV say he'll never give BvS another chance after flipping on MoS Cue Terrance Howard: next time baby

[@chiffmonkey]

Completely different FFV - "Well, it's me, and I'm here, so get over it and move on!"

[@Rob7274]

Did he watch the director’s cut?

[@Emanthebald]

BvS doesn't deserve another chance

[@porassrivastava8242]

@@Emanthebald it already got a second chance from several more people. I've talked to so many friends who used to hate the movie but now they get it, they like it or accept it now

[@Rorymchair]

People don’t seem to mind or in some case notice when superheroes kill people in movies but when the movie actually points this out they get what I’m neutrally going to describe as “passionate”

[@MultiKbarry]

Like how most people forgot Superman literally committed mass genocide against babies in the nursery a couple minutes before killing zod.

[@Seoyeaji921]

​@@MultiKbarry😂😂😂

[@doctornov7]

I always loved this film. It spoke to me as a teenager, and even now I feel its power as a call to nobility and maturity, much in the same vein as Spider Man (2002).

[@lorifoxworth9899]

I love how you basically answered your own prejudice about BvS. The whole point of BvS version of Batman is that he was tipped over that line. Not enough to be a full on villain, but enough that his already broken spirit goes down even more. He is just at a place where he just care. His ends justify his means. Batman has always been locally focused. His parents, his city, his friends, etc. Superman has always been global, all humanity, entire world, anywhere something needs to be done. That's why BvS is so good. It pits the two ideas against each other, throws in the real world consequences and Lex Luther's jokeresque mentality. Joker creates chaos for the sake of losing control,, which is juxtapose to Lex creating chaos for the sake of gaining control. Ok, really long, and lost track of point, other than go back and watch BvS.

[@ebrahimmunsif]

BVS ultimate edition**

[@xCrusader66x]

Exactly. The underlying theme of Batman in BvS is fear and the power that fear has to break a person’s spirit and morals if they allow themselves to be overcome by it. Batman fans are too caught up by the way batman behaves in BvS to stop and ask WHY he is behaving that way. (Not to mention that Batman behaves in almost the same way in the Nolan trilogy, but everyone loves those so let’s not talk about Batman mowing down police cars with a tank that has giant cannons on the front of it in Batman Begins)

[@GentlemanWiz]

BVS could've been 2 movies... It really does seem that they had too much to pack in such meager amount of time

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

no one should go back and watch bvs, what a waste of energy.

[@ElSocketFace]

@@LuisManuelLealDias not really, it's pretty good

[@jacksonperez5615]

“You think you can threaten my mother” greatest line in any superhero movie

[@ElSocketFace]

@@jonts7 everybody has

[@MeliDMR93]

honestly, I really love it? the movie builds up how difficult it has been to find his place in the world, he's just met lois. His mother is his world. the best (male?) heroes often have strong emotional anchors that amps up the stakes to their mission. also dude shows up wanting to destroy earth? fine, let us battle. threatening my mother? that's just fucking rude. i'm a badass and i'm gonna made you show some manners to my mom!

[@elmizzox]

@@jonts7 it's overrated af

[@MultiKbarry]

It’s funny how he just left his mother behind with the kryptonian hit squad.

[@Akaeus]

My favorite part is that and right before... Zod: "WHERE IS THE CODEX?!" Kal'El instantly snatches Zod and proceeds to beat him, and my thought right before he gets him is always: CODEX INCOMING!

[@GustavoGplay]

This movie has actually grown a lot to me with the years I think justice league was so bad that it made me rethink Man of Steel

[@eternalnjem]

Why did you initially not like it?

[@GustavoGplay]

@@eternalnjem I honestly can't remember exactly, but the "realistic" approach didn't really feel good to me at the time.

[@eternalnjem]

@@GustavoGplay It makes sense imo, i would’ve hated a cartoonish Superman movie even in 6th grade when i first saw it

[@mish2637]

@@eternalnjem Yea I actually really appreciated this realistic version when it came out and I still do. I'm was tired of seeing those relentlessly happy and optimistic characters who don't seem to have a dark side or any flaws. Cavill's superman still managed to hold on to the hero's defining belief in hope but it made the optimism more realistic and it showed his struggles of living up to what his father believed he could be. It was honestly a pretty good film, I never understood why people hated it so much.

[@eternalnjem]

@@mish2637 yeah same, one of my fav superhero movies

[@Jotenks]

Tbh the killing of Zod was easily my favorite part of the fight for me, the way Clark just screams in horror after killing one of the only members of his kind gives me chills

[@benamer8836]

Man of steel is a very underated Godzilla movie ..

[@thatoneguyfaded]

You've never seen a DC animated movie.

[@hexum7]

Godzilla didn’t have a secret identity, now, did he? Check and mate

[@swapnilsingh5120]

You wanted godly figures to fight in the middle of the city without any collateral damage? Had that been the case y'all would have cried "MoS I'd a very underrated Cement and Steel commercial"

[@christoferprestipino7433]

Not it’s not, it’s actually exactly what would happen when beings 100000x more powerful than Godzilla engage in a conflict.

[@christoferprestipino7433]

@@swapnilsingh5120 these people are actually in the throes of mental illness, don’t try and reason with them using any type of discernible logic.

[@mohamedalismacktalk382]

I'm glad more people are talking about the Zack Snyder DC movies and really start to appreciate them more.

[@prolastmedia6171]

MoS is the most interesting interpretation of a live action Superman

[@dbsm666]

After Seeing the Snyder Cut. MOS is the first act of Cavil's Superman origin, is Kal-EL facing his heritage. BvS is Clark Kent facing the humanity, and JL is Superman acepting his path, after being born again.

[@meblijebli2152]

everything about MOS just sparks HOPE, the score, the dialogue, the message, ALL

[@nlg070301]

I've never been able to accept the 'Batman can't kill' criticism of BVS, as the story being told is about why he shouldn't. At no point does the film frame Batman's antics as an acceptable thing in this universe. In fact, Alfred criticises Bruce at every turn, and it's the precise reason why Clark has a problem with Batman in the first place. It's not because he's a 'vigilante'. It's because he's gone too far. I understand that this might work better as an elseworld story instead of the main DCEU canonical Batman, but I still think it's an interesting take. Also willing to admit that Snyder perhaps takes it too far. They've could've just left it at the branding, and the same character arc would still apply. Nevertheless, I think BVS is one you should revisit if you liked Man of Steel more on rewatch. In my opinion, both films improve with every viewing and when you start accepting them for what they are instead of what you wanted them to be. Just thought I'd give my take. Great video!

[@jello4479]

You’re wasting your time trying to explain this to people. They’ll pretend to get it in a few years. Same thing happened with MoS. These plot beats and themes aren’t exactly subtle but they somehow still go over the heads of general audiences.

[@BruceWayne-xq7bb]

this guy will change his mind after zsjl about bvs... zsjl is batman's redemption story so bvs will work after the redemption arc of batman in zsjl and y shld main earth of comics be same as main earth of the movies... these guys just come up with weird reasons to justify their arguments

[@michaelobrien1106]

Yes! And, for the love of all that is holy, ensure it is the Ultimate Edition!

[@inksans6580]

Gotta make sure he reviews the Ultimate Edition

[@RbkARI]

The fact that it's supposed to be the "canonical" version of Batman is why I don't like it.

[@leroyjames9087]

Man of steel was ahead of its time

[@ExhaustedWombat]

Not even close. It was an experiment and like most experiments it was a failure. Albeit an honourable one.

[@wesleyellis8805]

You might be right, this isn't the only review I've seen backing out previous statements. DCEU just packed so much in this movie, there was more to bitch about. Marvel literally made 28 movies with the exact same plot. Man wants power, man gets power, man loses power, love helps him find it again from within, man defeats enemy(s).

[@crimsonstreams]

@Pranav M all that matters to myself is that I like it. Cheers

[@KingXhuntR]

Masterpiece, time will tell and it's already singing

[@Br0therHO0dClan]

Agreed

[@vsf_dave811]

The Pa Kent tornado scene is him putting his money where his mouth is with how he feels about what would happen if Clark revealed his powers. Earlier he tells Clark that it may not have been a good idea to use his powers to save the sinking bus, which everyone always points at as some out of left field behavior, but Pa Kent is literally willing to die himself so Clark doesn’t have to reveal himself. That’s how strong his convictions were about what the consequences of Clark’s powers would be

[@hunchovari]

People would’ve bitched if John asked Clark to save him after saying that so idk why they were mad

[@vast14]

Exactly

[@silentsaturn7604]

@@hunchovari Cause Clark let his father die, duh!

[@Lukecash2]

@@silentsaturn7604 And what would have happened if Clark revealed who he was before he was ready?

[@LucasDeziderio]

@@hunchovari It's because by the end Clark reveals his powers to the world anyway and becomes a hero. Not only that, but we all knew from the moment we saw the title of the movie that Clark would become a super-hero at some point, so Pa Kent's sacrifice is an attempt to stop the plot we all want from happening. Can you imagine if in Batman Begins Alfred died saying “don't you dare become a vigilante" to Bruce? Not only it's weird, but it also goes against the very premise we want to see on screen. And the worst part? No one challenges Pa Kent's view! Even in the sequel he's portrayed as a noble character with wise advice. At no point someone comes up and realize how wrong all of his advice is. In the end he spent his moments on-screen filling his son with fear and dread of the outside world, killed himself for nothing in front of him and then is still considered a wise man. No, fuck you, Pa! If Clark had followed your advice he would never become a hero!

[@menghao737]

I look forward to your "I've changed my mind about BvS" video. Edit: and I do mean Snyder's director's cut, Ultimate Edition. Screw that WB theatrical cut. Screw WB in general.

[@mystroceo]

Man Of Steel is the best DCEU film to date.

[@linkaran512]

Agreed

[@gpcovenant]

Easily. It’s a brilliant take

[@anthonymartensen3164]

Not saying much

[@KingXhuntR]

only maybe infinite war i better in both dceu and mcu, and that's a maybe. MoS is timeless.

[@andyanderson516]

Shazam is shite. Wonder women is good but the second wonder women sucked. Man of steel is one of my favourites

[@j.samuelwaters81]

"If you can accept Holdo not telling Poe the plan..." That one's quite a load-bearing 'if'

[@Optimegatrongodzilla]

Yeah, I love "Star Wars - Episode 8: The Last Jedi" and the hate it gets is nonsensical, but Holdo was a bitch. People act like Luke acts out of character in the movie, which would be true if this was a Luke who hadn't had experiences past "Star Wars - Episode 6: Return of The Jedi", but that's not the case. Within the context of what's established in "Star Wars - Episode 8: The Last Jedi", Luke acting the way that he does in said film before Yoda talks to him makes sense. He blames himself for what happened to Ben Solo, his nephew/the son of his sister & one of his closest friends. And, it's not like Luke had become a completely different person, which is evident by his reaction to seeing R2-D2. Also, the stuff on Canto Bight is awesome, despite what many say. The casino parts are, to me, like the Mos Eisley Cantina scene in "Star Wars - Episode 4: A New Hope".

[@burncycle4621]

@@Optimegatrongodzilla You love TLJ? Admitting it is the first step, well done.

[@davecrawley4634]

Hey Holdo, show me your military genius! First military genius strategy, immediately alienate your best fighter and the heir to Leia, the super popular and charismatic Poe. Second, when all your fighters get destroyed and a now grounded and slightly useless Poe asks whether he and two janitors can take any single ship and go somewhere else and get a guy who could help remove this ‘tracking through hyperspace’ bullshit....immediately reject that plan for your excellent alternate plan, thus ignoring the option of ridding yourself of Poe and saving everyone’s lives. Third, the genius plan. Leave the medium of space, i.e. the best place to send a radio signal. Attempt, under the nose of the 50 odd capital battleships following, to abandon the only fleet you have to go to a planet because you’ll get a better signal. This is brilliant. What a plan. Do this instead of sending a message at any of the times when the First Order fleet show up because it is so much better to try and sneak off somehow and land on the planet of salt and hide in an old garage by closing the door. The only issue is that the bad guys might have some old Death Star tech, repurposed as a ‘space laser battering ram’ and be able to knock down the otherwise impenetrable garage door. Oh shit, the janitor storm trooper just said they have exactly that. Oh well. That was the plan. Hide in a garage and only then send a signal for help? Oh well, at least her last act wasn’t to completely nullify the threat of a Death Star by re-writing the history of the Star Wars universe with a bullshit “Holdo Maneuver”. Many Bothans apparently died for fuck all. Simply fly an empty craft at light speed at a target and wipe it out. Makes the military genius of space bombers dropping bombs on the dreadnought look a bit silly now. Fuck the Last Jedi, fuck the stupid plot and fuck Rhian ‘subverting expectations’ Johnson.

[@areallymeanperson]

@@davecrawley4634 to be fair, poe literally got people killed for almost nothing, and Leia reprimanded and demoted him

[@areallymeanperson]

@@davecrawley4634 also, question, do you like Legends? Do you like the 20 gigaton turbo lasers (that arent actually 20 gigaton) that was given within legends? Or how about every other galaxy threatening weapon or person in expanded lore? The threat of the death star has been nullified a long time ago

[@dhreimertify]

“If he gives into killing, he fears the darkness he has been using will consume him” I’m sorry wasn’t that the whole point of his story in BvS? You simultaneously shit on the movie for batman killing yet provide the narrative reason for its purpose all at once lmao

[@daynightart6648]

The point is its illustrated terribly. First of all batman's spirit has been broken by the death of his Robin, and he starts killing almost all of the thugs he fights. But the joker isn't dead? Have you seen under the red hood? The weight of Robins death is enough to make batman want to kill the joker. But if he crosses that line there's no going back. But we don't see any of that in BVS. We see batman is a killer that he's given into that darkness but he hasn't killed anyone he should've and stops killing due to some half assed reason. The movie does the arc no justice.

[@MohammedMurshidHD]

@@daynightart6648 in one of the interviews Zack said that batman doesn't kill directly. It's like if the thug is in his way in a car. He just shoots the car. It's like manslaughter. What I understood was superman was the first person he was about to directly kill but eventually couldn't. Also idk why people say it's a dumb reason that batman stopped cause he said martha. Batman became batman or at least used to be because of his parents and superman obv did his research on him and wanted to trigger his PTSD and batman sees this demon in his mind asking to save his mother while about to die and realises he's more human than batman.

[@daynightart6648]

@@MohammedMurshidHD lol as if this justifies anything. It's still poorly executed. I loved the snyder cut but snyder doesnt do batman justice. Supes was great cyborg was great hell even flash was good. Wonder woman was perfect. I haven't seen 84 but batman felt really underwhelming. He was better than josstice version but snyder's Batman characterisation is pretty weak. And BTW all snyder fans need to stop filling in gaps for his movies. If things don't make sense it's because of the execution of certain ideas.

[@MohammedMurshidHD]

@@daynightart6648 also batman changed in the end of bvs add he's more hopeful in the Snydercut. He's not the husk of batman he once was like in bvs. Also maybe just pay attention simple as that.

[@daynightart6648]

@@MohammedMurshidHD so you think that sudden change was earned? Batman goes from killing petty criminals, doesn't kill the joker and then after superman dies becomes the true batman again all of a sudden and you think that's earned? Someone's paying too much attention to things that aren't even there.

[@stephenramsey5585]

"if he gives in to the killing, he fears the darkness will consume him". I feel like you just described the Batman we got in BVS Unlimited Edition. He went so far down the dark well he couldn't see the light anymore. Bruce may wear the costume in BVS, but he's not Batman again until Justice League. I feel like that's an important distinction.

[@koichidignitythief7429]

But no can't ever explore the possibly of Batman killing someone because Batman has to always be portrayed in the same rigid set ups where some deus ex machina prevents him from actually having any real conlfict over his rule. It feels toothless how it keeps happening even when it becomes more than justified in cases like Death of the Family where I still wonder why Joker is even alive.

[@Seoyeaji921]

​@@koichidignitythief7429i think batman's no killing policy is what makes him batman it adds so much depth and layers to his character because due to his particular code his chemistry with joker has so many layers that we got movies like batman under the red hood and comics like batman who laughs i just cant imagine batman without his iconic red hood scene where he explains to redhood of his reasons thats what defines him as batman etc etc. i think no kill rule is very important for the dynamic of batman and joker its like doctor tenma and johan so much psychological battle and batman himself mentioned that he is neither judge no jury and not a executioner at all and how he will not choose a easy but rather the hard way his mental strength and how much joker tries he never succeed breaking batman but yeah other dc characters are not meant to be that way and i am absolutely okay with supes and other dc characters killing villains when its necessary. You really need to watch batman under the red hood to understand and also you need to understand why joker always tries his best to have himself be killed at bats hands but always fails.

[@koichidignitythief7429]

@@Seoyeaji921 You're right it adds depth. Until the writers have to come up with asspulls and mental gymnastics to bring everything back to the status quo and appeal hardcore fans who complain about anything being different.

[@memento6059]

"In time, they will join you in the sun." It's great that you gave MoS another shot and to hear that you actually liked it this time; it'a a running theme with Zack's movies ain't it? But every time that you said something about BvS I was wondering if you only watched the theatrical version and not the UE. If so, watch the Ultimate Edition, because literally every response for every criticism that I've heard is hidden within the narrative of the story, you just have to pay attention.

[@GuruPrashanth7970]

Man of steel is a beautiful movie, and Zack Snyder deserves way more love.

[@StareachValcin]

I respectfully disagree. Zack Snyder doesn't understand Superman. Man of steel doesn't best represent Superman and what he stands for.

[@StareachValcin]

@@andersondalmeus1406 I agree, but I want to see Zack Snyder's justice league just to see if Zack Snyder can show us the DC universe we need.

[@vikramsubramaniam6699]

@@StareachValcin that’s the point of man of steel. He isn’t the superman we know. Not yet.

[@StareachValcin]

@@vikramsubramaniam6699 and yet other Superman origin stories before and after man of steel do a better job of showing how Clark became Superman without compromising his core character.

[@vikramsubramaniam6699]

@@StareachValcin man of steel never compromised his core character but ok

[@BlazerK1914]

The DCEU movies I've fond over: - Man of Steel - Batman v Superman - Wonder Woman - Aquaman - Shazam

[@GMYSTERYICTNF]

👌Ganna add Zack Snyders Justice League soon

[@idawg7332]

Those are also the ones I like especially man of steel and bvs. I would also put joker on that list even though it isn’t connected

[@akshay0084]

BvS sucked..... Aquaman was a predictable cartoon

[@BlazerK1914]

Akshay 008 I like those movies. You don’t have to like them, but I have my own reasons.

[@DanteAlighieri612]

@@akshay0084 we don't do that here bro. Whether you hate it or not still he is saying his own choice not yours. Stop trying to convince other that the movie you hate sucked because we all have different perpective so quit it.

[@leaflake1083]

I really need another superman movie with Henry cavil! He was great in my opinion.

[@peaceunion5316]

What I've noticed with Snyder, is i like his movies the more i watch them

[@porassrivastava8242]

It's simultaneously admirable and a huge disadvantage. Because if people don't like your movie in one go reviews come out scathing

[@frankwest5388]

While I do admit that Snyder is a genius when it comes to set design, effects and directing on set, I hate the stories of his films and the way he moralizes. He really needs a better screenwriter because I am sick and tired of his “god is bad” symbolism and his boner for dark and grey visuals

[@peaceunion5316]

@@frankwest5388 i agree that he needs a professional writer to actually add more value to his work. He is better at visual directing than he is narrative crafting. Huh, it's interesting you see his symbolism as god is bad, because I've always interpreted it as being very pro-god-like in its execution and style

[@frankwest5388]

@@peaceunion5316 300 the character who calls himself a god is a bad guy, who ends up being killed by humans. Watchmen: See godlike beings = not good. Man of Steel: Reject your godly side, because god like beings are evil. BvS: God dies because he might be dangerous. And he uses excessive Jesus symbolism for Superman, which again bores me. I am not saying that he is some sort of obsessive atheist who hates god or anything, but he has a weird pattern of killing god or demonizing it.

[@peaceunion5316]

@@frankwest5388 i meant that in the MoS arch it seems to be that the jesus symbolism is for him to persist amidst the difficulty of not being accepted for his godlihood

[@PierceArner]

The other part about Superman killing Zod is that it's framing Superman's choice as one that has individual consequences. Zod has nothing left - _and he still choses violence, because that's how he was made._ Zod mastered the powers that took Clark most of his life in Earth in a matter of hours. If he doesn't stop Zod for good, he won't ever be able to... but that act also means he might be failing his own people... forever. It's a binary choice where there is no negotiation, and where you the large scale destruction doesn't always sell that, the helpless family trapped that Clark has to look in the eye does. If anything, that moment is what makes his natural inclination not to kill anyone even stronger than his character already showed through his actions growing up.

[@Ellie_deMayo]

Thing is it was written that way. That’s what they want to say. They want a trolley problem. But what most people dislike about it is that, it’s not a great thing to say.

[@PierceArner]

@@Ellie_deMayo I'm not quite sure what you mean by, it's not a great thing to say. In what way?

[@berniet1215]

Killing is an easy get out of jail card to solve the problem. There is little moral dilemma. If he traps zod & then he is early delay in the potential inevitable of zod killing everyone, that puts greater weight on his shoulders. Anything zod does or kill once he escapes is on superman. Superman has to live with so much death but try still put a brave face on as he is meant to be hope.

[@PierceArner]

@@berniet1215 He can't trap Zod though - that's the whole point. Zod is designed to be the best warrior that Krypton has, and he adapts to their powers on Earth in a matter of hours. The problem and moral dilemma is that Clark _has_ to choose between saving Humanity _OR_ Krypton, because he isn't given a choice to try and save both - which is what he wants.

[@theboi1885]

“For a feminist film with upskirt shots” wait, are we talking about Sucker Punch or Joss Whedon’s Justice League?

[@Emanthebald]

Justice League does have upskirt shots, but is not a feminist film at all

[@oneopinion6806]

@@Emanthebald hey we don't get to dictate what women wear! If the Amazons decided it was time to start peeling off layers of battle armor that's their decision. And what other camera angle are supposed to shoot when Diana is walking down the street in leather pants? Maybe that day there was an accident that ruined the camera rig and they couldn't lift it any higher.

[@MIKE_THE_BRUMMIE]

Why do betas hate male sexuality

[@oneopinion6806]

@@MIKE_THE_BRUMMIE Why does anyone think unironically using the term "beta" ever paints them in a good light?

[@Emanthebald]

@@oneopinion6806 In my comment you're replying to there is no suggestion of how women should dress/act.

[@pablosimoncornejonunez4412]

two years later: "I've Changed My Mind About BvS"

[@codetcodes]

The reason why Zack Snyder misses the mark with Superman and Watchmen is because they were written as the direct opposite of Snyder's personal beliefs and bias for Ayn Rand and Objectivism. Superman's all about Altruism and Watchmen mocks Objectivism. Man of Steel is trying to make Superman Atlas Shrugged and that doesn't work imo.

[@OsSas3]

THANK YOU! You can't give a director a character that they don't understand, they'll try lo align the character to his ideals/beliefs instead of portraying it the right way. Snyder is a good director, but he shouldn't be given absolute liberty, specially with stablished characters.

[@prajwaljayaraj5887]

I actually agree!! I don't know if Snyder understood the subtext behind these stories or characters. I always feel either pity for him or disdain. I think Man Of Steel, even tho, It directly stands in contrast to what I like about Superman, did a fine job, I have shit talked it before but I didn't give it enough credit for how much it did right. Still won't forgive him for Watchmen and BvS but Man Of Steel was a good movie. And I don't like how much the studio screwed him over.

[@Drybones2015]

Your criticism of Batfleck is the whole point of his character in BvS. He's at the end of his rope, decade or so of crime fighting and nothing had changed besides the friends and family he lost along the way. He's done playing nice and the Metropolis event pushed him over the edge. Him being judge, jury, and executioner is a major part of the plot and is discussed throughout the movie. You aren't supposed to enjoy that he slings a car full of people on to another car full of people that were shooting at him. He's fallen into the darkness and Superman's sacrifice for humanity starts him on a path of trying to be better. You've come around on MoS, give it a couple more years and you'll come around on BvS too.

[@marywilcox3102]

A lot of people have come around, and it's nice to see.

[@itsmecaldo]

yup yup

[@horace6851]

I liked BvS from the first watch (I only watched extended version, it's supposed to make more sense anyway). Although I'm generally quite critical with those types of movies, ex. I hated Batman Begins. Of course the whole Martha conundrum was dumb but other than that it was an interesting movie. I particularly enjoyed the dark, tired, murderous Batman.

[@itsmecaldo]

@@horace6851 I.e. The whole point lol.

[@itsmesteve1081]

I agree. I think it was just how they went about it in this movie. It isn't very clear what his motivations are or who he really is. They should have made a dedicated Batman movie explaining his origin in this universe. Instead we got introduced to Batman as a sort of side character in bvs.

[@MoneyGist]

Man of Steel was meant to be Batman Begins to The Dark Knight trilogy, not Iron Man to Avengers. WB tried to rush an Avengers clone in 2 movies... The first Avengers movie came up after 5, FIVE, other movies that set up the different characters. Na.

[@nickpotvin1050]

WB didn’t rush it, that’s what zach wanted to do, mos, bvs, then justice league 1,2&3. And that would be his whole snyderverse

[@jakebecerra8189]

Gonna cry?

[@nickpotvin1050]

@@jakebecerra8189 huh?

[@liynne]

@@nickpotvin1050 no

[@RicktheInnovator]

When he snaps Zods neck not only does he kill the last of his kind, it goes against his morals and all he stands for. Superman doesn't want to kill but is forced to. His struggle was honestly the best part bcuz it embraces all that is Superman...

[@colinftp3288]

I agree Superman killing Zod is way different that Batman killing all those goons

[@Cookiepuss2289]

BVS is partly about why Batman shouldn’t kill. He lost his way...that’s the point of the story.

[@DepravedCoTApologist]

@@Cookiepuss2289 It's still bad tho

[@bean181]

Ya

[@Cookiepuss2289]

@@DepravedCoTApologist I mean that’s an opinion. You may not like it but Batman has killed in movies and the comics before. Snyder is deconstructing these superhero’s and questioning what makes them the heroes we love. Batman was once the Batman who didn’t kill but has lost hope and his moral compass....again that’s the point

[@DepravedCoTApologist]

@@Cookiepuss2289 Doesn't matter if that's the point if it's executed poorly like in BvS

[@ScrapKing73]

I always loved Man of Steel, no revisiting it required. It’s the only DCEU film I like. I loved everything about what happened on Krypton. And I loved the poignant story of someone trying to stay out of trouble, living a solitary life out of necessity, but not being able to stop himself from assisting those in trouble.

[@prudhvic4]

Finally an essay where it doesn't call MOS a masterpiece and the audience dumb, Instead tries to make a case for why MOS is pretty good.

[@paulwillard81]

But we already knew it was "pretty good"

[@darkfire2942]

Honestly there were some pretty dumb arguments made about why this movie was bad. I mean, jeez, you’d think the audience could grow a pair.

[@prudhvic4]

@@darkfire2942 yeah but not everyone who didn't like it is dumb.

[@darkfire2942]

@@prudhvic4 I know that, I’m just saying that there is some truth to that statement, otherwise it wouldn’t have ever been said lol

[@memecliparchives2254]

@@prudhvic4 People can like what they like really. As for us who loved this movie despite its flaws I will admit, doesn't mean I have to adhere to a degenerative zealot who hates this movie. It's not just having a different opinion, it's about people like me standing up for myself and those spiteful haters staying in their lane.

[@TheMcfc1fan]

The neck snapping was an incredible scene I thought, made total sense

[@bemasaberwyn55]

Pushed to the brink, now he knows what he CAN'T do from now on

[@TheMcfc1fan]

@@bemasaberwyn55 Warner Bros ruined a great foundation with BvS and universe building

[@Ellie_deMayo]

@@bemasaberwyn55 Technically, he did kill him again

[@GMYSTERYICTNF]

I mean what else was he supposed to do? He had to kill him eventually This was a rampaging bull who wouldn't stop Was he ganna throw him in the Phantom zone? How? Ships were destroyed Fly him into space? And then what? Where's he ganna take him? He can't throw him into the sun like Goku would that'd just power him up He doesn't know kryptonite exists yet So he had to kill him the only way you can using blunt force that wasn't too brutal Did a backflip and snapped the bad guys neck and saved the day

[@Ellie_deMayo]

@@GMYSTERYICTNF Why not? It’s fiction. It happened this way because they *wrote* it this way. If they want to say, “This is how the real world works! Shut up and submit. It’s the ONLY way.” then fine I guess.

[@ebony_shogun-7796]

I loved man of Steel. I always wanted to see a film where superman had to seriously cut loose. What he showed me was what would really happen if he did and I was here for it. Great movie.

[@haku8135]

Watch Justice League Unlimited instead. WAY better.

[@justanaverageguy912]

Holdo not telling Poe the plan is like the 2nd least accepted thing in Star Wars history, right before everything on the casino planet and after Han shooting second.

[@haku8135]

You forgot the franchise breaking holdo maneuver.

[@enlightenmentdoesntcomeeas5337]

Love MoS. The only Superman I've seen prior to it was Superman Returns so I could be biased. But honestly that's how I imagine how the world would react if we found out we are not alone in the galaxy.

[@phazeflux7900]

If only they kept up this level of quality for the rest of the DCCU movies...

[@Deathlygunn]

I'm throwing it out there, this would have been more fondly remembered as a decent 7/10 film if it wasn't having to follow on from the quality of The Dark Knight Trilogy, and releasing at the same time that the MCU was shifting into high gear.

[@AxxLAfriku]

OH NOOOOOO!!! Most people agree that my vids are the worst on KZbin. I agree to disagree. Please agree to disagree with the haters, dear dea

[@satanclaus1693]

the MCU is great at what it does but yeah, the precedent it set with the first Avengers movie for expected tone really hurt the public reception of the movie.

[@porassrivastava8242]

Tbh all of Snyder movies (albeit a some cultish) have gained a niche following, I consider them big budgeted art movies they aren't for everyone but for some they're amazing I just happen to be one of those people.

[@SSmith-yh5nz]

MOS follows the Dark Knight logic of "what would happen if this happened in REAL life?? Would there be a lot of political backlash in this post 9/11 world??"

[@haku8135]

No it doesn't.

[@spidermations6495]

DC character kills one person and the death of the person clearly upsets him, fans: how could they be so heartless Marvel character kills tons of people without caring any less, fans: haha you go guys

[@jeremybarnett3945]

Snyderssance? No? I’ll see myself out.

[@docha649]

no, come back

[@captainvader921]

It feels like I'm the only one who understood this movie immediately. People complained about the amount of destruction being overkill, but I understood that, of course there would be. These are a bunch of gods going toe to toe with each other, it makes all the sense for there to be so much. Plus, I loved the scene where he killed Zod, because it showed he was more human than anybody had ever thought of

[@anthonyclarke2253]

Pretty much goku vs. vegeta in terms of destruction.

[@jerogomezrobledo]

I have a lot of love & appreciation for the first half of the movie, but even to this day, I still have a lot of dislike and frustration with the second half. My main highly of the whole movie is Hans Zimmer's score.

[@christoferprestipino7433]

That’s because you’re a child. The destruction in the latter half of the film is intentional, its meant to be traumatic, it’s the whole fucking point of why Johnathan was so hesitant about his son stepping into the spotlight. Once the choice was made, everything was going to change and like all periods of transition there is a lot of pain before things start to get better. That’s what the latter half of this film was, the realisation of Jonathan’s fear, and it sets up BvS perfectly, really in a way so few sequels are these days, as that films deal directly with both the PTSD suffered by the world of men, and how superman is wrestling with the decision he made in the first film. If that’s too complex for you, go watch Sesame Street or something.

[@jerogomezrobledo]

@@christoferprestipino7433 I'm glad you see it that way, but for me, it just reminds me of 9/11, and no one wants to be reminded of a tragic event, even if it features with one of the most popular & powerful superheroes.

[@christoferprestipino7433]

@@jerogomezrobledo like I said, it’s too serious for you mate, it’s meant to remind of 9/11, that’s not a failing of the film as much as it your personal preference.

[@isaacfloyd4023]

​@@jerogomezrobledo No one wants to be reminded of a traumatic event yet every september 11 we seem to willfully remind ourselves of that event. I mean do you even live in the real world or did the constant yearly reminders of september 11th just slip your mind.

[@atntfanpage4071]

@@christoferprestipino7433 please stop whining about it being "too serious", like, (somewhat?) agree with what you're saying, but it comes off as provoking and makes you seem really immature. It's obnoxious is what I'm saying. There are better ways to phrase it. I feel like I'm gonna start a comment thread but I hate it when people say that.

[@chrisdeguia4764]

Oddly enough, about the time you dropped this video, I rewatched MoS. I had no idea about your channel. Overall, I approach most movies with a kevin smith level of emotion. I sobbed a lot during MoS, especially with the growing up sequences. At least for me, MoS inspires the feeling of what a superman movie should be like. Story revolving around what is called 'the superhuman condition'

[@roachofdoom1234]

I feel like this video isn’t gonna have any real new perspective on the movie and is just going to feel like this guy is finally catching up after all these years.

[@puddleglum666]

Batman kills people in The Dark Knight Returns comic. He's not supposed to, but that is exactly the point. That comic was a huge influence on BvS and I think basing our opinions of how good a movie on our preconceived notion of who a character SHOULD be. The darkness HAS consumed him and BvS is the story of how he finds his way back out.

[@teo-pc8yx]

Exactly !!!!!!! That was a great explanation

[@bemasaberwyn55]

With, an ideal to strive towards. He raced behind him, he fell, but in the end Bruce will join him in the sun

[@teo-pc8yx]

@@bemasaberwyn55 Batman being shot by omega beems in the comics : travels back in time Batman being shot by omega beems in the movies : travels in the sun

[@teo-pc8yx]

@Ákos Erik if I remember correctly he shot a guy in the head or I might be mistaken but he did snap the joker's neck and yes I know that we see joker do it himself but that was Batman trying to convince himself that he didn't do it

[@puddleglum666]

@Ákos Erik I mean he pretty much kills the Joker. Snaps his neck and then he dies.

[@TitanLRV]

The thing about Batman killing is that, that was supposed to be part of his character arc through Snyder's 5 film DCEU plan. At the beginning of BvS, Batman is an old tired and hopeless shell of his former self. He has now succumbed to his dark side. During his life time, he has seen countless of people he cared about turn evil and countless of loved ones die like his parents or like Robin. He has become so traumatized by the events that have happened in his life that he has lost the hope that he once had that there is still good in people and in humanity in general. So now, he has become an alcoholic and a drug addict who hooks up with women when he is not being Batman. And when he is Batman, he doesn't directly murder people in cold blood but now he has become so careless that he doesn't care anymore if people get killed due to his actions. After directly witnessing the destruction and the death caused by Superman, he is convinced that he needs to stop that extraterrestrial being no matter the cost. Bruce is not aware that Superman grew up on Earth with human parents who loved him, cared for him and raised him. For all he knows is that a god powered alien is bringing destruction to Earth even though his intentions might be good. After his Nightmare of the apocalyptic timeline where Darkseid is now ruling the Earth and Superman has succumbed to the anti-life equation, he is now absolutely convinced that he needs to kill that extraterrestrial being before the time comes when he turns on humanity thus destroying everything he loves and cares about. During the infamous Martha scene, Bruce now realizes that Superman, in his last moments, pleads for Batman to save his mother instead of his own life. This makes him realize that Clark actually has loved ones who care about him and that he is much more than just a god powered extraterrestrial being. He realizes that he is perhaps more human than himself. In shock, Bruce realizes how far he has gone where he was now about to directly murder someone in cold blood by impaling him with a spear. And then, after seeing Superman sacrifice himself to save the planet where people were despising him and making him seem like an evil demonic being, he now sees his former self in Superman's actions by remembering how honorable his former self used to be. This convinces him that he needs to turn back to his old ways where he would rather capture someone and let justice do it's thing than to torture and murder people. That's why he says at the end of BvS when talking about Clark : ''I failed him in life. I won't fail him in death.'' Now, from here on, Bruce's character was progressively suppose to change in each upcoming movie until he would eventually turn back into being the Batman that we all know and love. And he was finally suppose to sacrifice himself at the end of Justice League 3 to save the faith of humanity thus completing his character arc that started with BvS. I feel that it's a little unfair how people kept shitting on Batman breaking his no-killing rule in BvS while all of the previous Batman movies show him murdering people and yet nobody complains about that. Yes BvS is flawed but it is nowhere near as terrible as people like to say it is and it is simply false that Zack Snyder doesn't understand Batman. His interpretation of Batman might not be your cup of tea, but that is not a valid reason for people to shit all over him and to ridicule his fandom for enjoying his work. People love saying that his fans are toxic but to be honest, the people mocking Zack Snyder and his fans aren't any better at all.

[@sir6379]

Now that im older and somewhat know more about writing, its felt like a whole new experience watching the movie, when i was younger i thought it was good but not that good. But now its one of my most favourite super hero movies

[@vinniedavies7047]

Just wait. You say you won't rewatch BvS, but that's what they all say. You'll watch the ultimate edition and actually kinda enjoy it, then watch it again and again until you love it. That's how it starts. The fever, the rage, the feeling of hopelessness.

[@bernardomagana8108]

It's been very interesting seeing how the general reception of this movie has changed over the years. It seems that upon revisiting it, at the very least, people have come to appreciate what was attempted. Walking out of the theater in 2013, I loved it. Was it perfect? No. But I did really enjoy this take on Superman and his mythos.

[@Tyler_W]

That seems to be the case with basically all of Snyder's films. They age pretty well, and they're better aooreciated upon repeat viewings.

[@jbc242424]

@@Tyler_W especially Watchmen. At first you're asking, "What the hell did I just watch?" But on subsequent viewings you're saying, "God, that was brilliant."

[@KingXhuntR]

walked out of the cinema in 2013, went again 3 more time it was a masterpiece to me, i guess watching snyder films u know what to pay attention to, most ppl ignore dialogue in films much more than they realise, even one scene where u miss a quote could alter you perception. some ppl watch MoS and dont know what the Codex is...like dafuq did they watch.

[@itscat2.0]

@@KingXhuntR mindless people would hate snyder cause they can't think

[@VampireDream102]

The biggest issue with pa Kent's death was the loss of the lesson that Clark can't save everyone even with all his powers and that there are things he cannot control. This is important for Clark's motivation to try as hard as possible to do as much good in the world as he can. He can't stop time and natural death but he can stop evil that seeks to do harm to innocence.

[@Yaetora]

It's still a really dumb scene. No decent human being would let someone they could easily save die before their eyes, even if (or "even more so") "because dad said so!". I think that's where you feel a huge disconnect with the character and why most people hate that scene.

[@rogersmith1746]

I don’t understand why everyone is cranky over Dad Kent’s death. It follows all along with what Jonathon was trying to teach Clark from The beginning. People wouldn’t understand or they would certainly be fearful of something or someone so different. If Clark dashes out there in front a crowd of people like that...

[@Birthday888]

@@rogersmith1746 The problem is that Jonathan's lesson isn't supposed to be right. If it was, then Clark Kent would've stayed humble reporter without ever putting on his costume. In stories where Pa Kent dies, it's usually via some kind of illness or medical condition, a heart attack is usually the most common. It teaches Clark that even with all of his powers, he can't save everyone, and Superman has to deal with loss and grief like everyone else. It humanizes him. In Man of Steel, it does the complete opposite. We see Clark stand by and let his father die despite the fact that he could save him. Nobody can relate with that kind of decision. Which is my problem with the recent DC live-action movie adaptations. Superman is portrayed as a god with a strong attachment to two humans. I've never really seen him be kind. I don't see him as human or relatable. Which is a terrible thing when it comes to Superman, because the one thing that seperates Superman from his enemies is his humanity.

[@MultiKbarry]

It’s a good thing this pa Kent died since he was shown earlier trying to teach Clark to be selfish and only lookout for himself. If he had survived this Superman might have been even more apathetic.

[@hasthehighground8560]

@@rogersmith1746 because it defeats the purpose of even having him die. In most versions he died of a heart attack something Clark can’t stop and shows that he can’t save everyone but in this version he just stands in a tornado something Clark could’ve easily saved him from it’s just stupid.

[@ugochukwuudeh6625]

You’ll come around to BvS as well. Just make sure when you revisit it, it’s the ultimate edition you watch

[@maskofshy]

18:18 also IMPORTANT. in that moment Clark still didn't developed such Superspeed. (& even as Superman people can see him even when he flies fast) BUT ALSO while more seconds pass thanks to the edition.. i bet this scene in real time was just like 5 seconds. and we see CLARK WAS GOING TO SAVE PAKENT.. he was. but when he saw his father's strange expression, HE DOUBTED. i dont think Clark conciously said to himself: yes DAD i'll let you die. I convinced Clark just felt fear and doubt ... and in seconds Clark already lost him. He didn't acted on time. & sure.. maybe some would say that in present day Clark shoudl've told lois : "hey Lois, I was going to save him, but i couldn't." HOWEVER, No. Clark actually makes himself RESPONSIBLE for doubting: I let my father died bc I trusted him. ...and finds the good side of such event: Bc the world wasnt ready. it may not be a bulletproof logic. however it doesnt have to be. It was chapter with human mistakes and doubts. and sadly those things happen too irl. (also yeah 1997 still a lot of controversy about the world ending, and Clark didn't even knew what the hell he was) (and he didn't even developed his double identity) (so.. maybe waiting from going to the public at the end had a good side) (and Clark still kept saving people without calling attention to himself) (as Lois described: A Ghost) ♠ but yeah.. for that and other reason i think Pakent's death .does fit and quite makes sense. btw: i think this is why he later kills Zod) (he once doubted and his dad die.. now theres no time to doubt, He eliminates the tornado: Zod)

[@lylereid9877]

Well said! That Zod/tornado analogy was an astute observation and original as far as I can tell. And I've been watching and making my own interpretations and explanations for this movie for years.

[@lukehamilton2900]

Why didn't Pa Kent just allow Clark to rescue the dog? That's literally all he had to do, let Clark rip the seat out (no one would have noticed, they were all running for their lives) grab the dog and then run over and join them, while Pa and Martha made it to the overpass (which is actually a bad idea but whatever).

[@MoneyGist]

I enjoyed Man of Steel in the cinema. Loved the swell of the Zimmer soundtrack, the slow build up as he learnt to fly, all seemed epic and grand, like a great origin story. I thought the dad death scene was silly but still, this was the Batman Begins to my Man of Steel trilogy. Till I saw the abomination known as BvS. About Superman's no killing rule, you should watch Superman vs. The Elite. That's all.

[@frankiaquinta3118]

In defense of BvS, you did point out that Batman doesn’t kill because he knows that darkness will consume him, which is exactly what has happened in that movie. The point of that movie is that Batman wins the physical fight, but Superman won the emotional fight. Superman simply BEING Superman was enough to break down the darkness inside Batman and show him the light again. It’s Superman’s greatest power of all, a beacon of hope.

[@magentapurpleyap5566]

Actually in the ultimate edition, Lex paid prisoners to kill those who got branded.

[@frankiaquinta3118]

@@magentapurpleyap5566 right right, but there are other people that Batman kills in the movie. A looooot

[@magentapurpleyap5566]

@@frankiaquinta3118 yep.

[@RockStationForChrist]

@@frankiaquinta3118 mostly in traffic though to be fair. Not justifying it, but I see him doing what he did as a lack of preserving life instead of actively trying to end it. Killing Superman would've been different for a lot of reasons, but one of those reasons would be because it would've been a straight up execution. The little bit of light left in Bruce would've been snuffed out if Superman hadn't have saved him. People keep saying that this Superman is without hope or optimism, but he saved Batman from himself and inspired the whole world. What's hopeless about that?

[@frankiaquinta3118]

@@RockStationForChrist yesss dude I am 100% with you. Love how you put this

[@D123-f9k]

The things you realized and appreciated after this turn around are the reasons I struggled to understand the beef people had to begin with.

[@haku8135]

If you're struggling you're not listening.

There's something everyone forgets: Zod is telling Kal-el "you have to kill me to stop me". He WANTS to die. If he didn't, why not just rotate his eyes and kill the family? He makes it slow to push Kal-el to the limit so he HAS to kill him.

[@deragenfox3624]

Heat vision doesn't work like that. The lazers don't come from the pupils or retinas, they emit straight from the whole eye socket. They have to turn their heads to direct the lazer.

@@deragenfox3624 where is that explained "in universe"? And, by the way, is that universe the same as MoS? You know, different universe, different rules in comic.

[@deragenfox3624]

@ If you want to say something like "In Superman #678 Zod could use his eyes alone to direct the heatvision", I won't argue with that. All I am saying, he could not have rotated his eyes to kill the family, nothing in the movie suggests he could have. Not a single scene prior where one rotated their eyes to direct the heatvision.

[@ANineOne]

Man of Steel is amazing. It was the first time I saw it and is still so now. One of my favourite Superman films

[@theiyrosthenes1639]

My favorite scene is Superman tackling zod when his mother is threatened

[@brookb5890]

Wow this gave me a whole new perspective on the film. I need to rewatch now.

[@TimelessTransience]

If you're interested in a similar video largely focused on BvS (but to a lesser extent Man of Steel as well) than I wholeheartedly recommend Loverboy Media's video (I'll link it because it's got a long title I can't quite quote): kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6TPeKyiq9Cdhqc (If there's a similar comment of mine, KZbin fucked up and I couldn't see it to edit it so I'm re-posting.)

[@somegeekguy]

Just rewatched it. Tbh I still feel more of the same when I first saw it, it’s a movie, does what a movie is supposed to do. 6/10 for me

[@kikasse220]

This movie been out since 2013 you don't deserve to rewatch it