Iconoclasts (Spoilers)

Iconoclasts is a pretty neat game about shootin' things and solvin' puzzles and explorin' stuff. It's also a game about how roles and identities are built for you by society and how trying to conform or push back against those roles and identities can lead to suffering. Also: There are some really awesome boss fights.
Oh, and if you want to play some of the earlier prototype works (or Chalk) I'd recommend checking out Sandberg's website at www.konjak.org
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This episode was made possible by generous support through Patreon!
/ errantsignal
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[@BigJoel]

I really wanna hear that forty minute analysis!

[@davidgn40]

Wow, you have a good taste in video games too.

[@DaemonEX0]

I'm still hoping for this.

[@PauloVitorHMK]

Still waiting. This game doesn't get enough recognition.

[@walkingmarshmallow6895]

It seems you are a person of culture as well

[@PENGAmurungu]

yearly reminder

[@akumoth8357]

analyzing what the game is trying to say doesn't really have to devolve into saying konjak wants to blow up his entire immediate family or that the bird at the end is robin's dad or whatever, discussing themes in the game like it's materialistic outlook on religion, City One's cult of personality, the enviromentalist overtones, etc. isn't really trying to talk through konjak's mouth. the question doesn't have to be "what did Joakim Sanberg mean by this?" or "what is the absolute truth of what happens in this story?" so much as "what meaning can we garner from this? what makes this work tick with people?", after all, even his own answers to a lot of questions about the game can't be called definite because not even he can perfectly reproduce the intent he had during the 8 years he was developing the game. anyways good shit

[@grankwastaken]

Right now my friend, you just deserve a fucking high five. Thank you for your comment, better than what i could ever say! ;)

[@AxlCake]

right the fuck on man, lemme join in on that high five

[@ZoidbergForPresident]

The opinion of the unique dev of this game does bear critical importance though.

[@HadBabits]

​@@ZoidbergForPresident Sure, but that doesn't mean an author's word is the holy word on their work. Everyone projects their own thoughts and feelings into art, including those making it. I'll have differing views on what a project's about before, during, and after I make it. They may all be 'true' in some way, but in the end you are not your work: A pond might reflect you, but you are still separate.

[@bobthemonitor9697]

I’ve recently heard the view that the market is over saturated with 2D Metroidvanias, but by golly, I can’t find myself caring. I love Metroidvanias, and we have a glut of excellent ones these days. I hope they keep coming.

[@justinw1384]

Bob the Monitor so true. Keep it up and I’ll keep playing them.

[@falconJB]

The market is over saturated with 2D Metroidvanias but most of them are just OK so the great ones still stand out.

[@VikingSchism]

I just really don't care for that kind of game, I find them quite uninteresting to play

[@zh3497]

@@VikingSchism metroidvanias find you uninteresting.

[@duffman18]

@@VikingSchism yeah. Metroidvanias are awful, generally. Like particularly bad ones such as Hollow Knight, which has about 5 minutes of gameplay per hour of walking around being lost. I play games because I like gameplay. I can wander around bored and lost in the real world, I don't want to pay money so I can do that virtually Metroidvanias are the lazy way out. It's far easier to develop a metroidvania cos then you don't have to worry about things like good level design, or good moment to moment gameplay. Just chuck whatever shit you want at the screen and call it a "realistic immersive open world" and people will eat it up. You can fix glaring faults with the game such as the bad level design, by giving the player a double jump, to remove all challenge completely. Yeah, I get it, it's really difficult to make a highly polished linear game, which is why most devs take the lazy route of making it a metroidvania. But it's just awful that right now, 95% of indie platformers are Metroidvanias. There's too many of them, and the vast majority of them are terrible

[@surrogatebigbrother2129]

I agree with some of the other comments here that you're tiptoeing around your own thoughts too much, although I'm maybe not quite as angry about it. You bring up The Beginner's Guide, and I get the impression that that game left a big impact on you as a game reviewer (understandably), so I'll preface this by saying that I felt like you took away the wrong message from that game, too. I don't think the message of that game was that it's wrong to try to use the game as a means of understanding the author of the game--quite the opposite, in fact. What I saw in The Beginner's Guide was someone who was trying to communicate certain life lessons or personal messages in their game using their own personal language, and the tragedy is that those messages were missed because the person playing those games was going out of his way to cast aside those messages, ignoring some of the more blatant statements made, in order to insert his own message in the game. And maybe I'm wrong about that, but who cares? Art and creativity are means of communication. And like regular communication, the person speaking is making an attempt to share an idea with someone else, and the person listening is making an effort to understand what they're saying. At least, that's the closest to an ideal that you can realistically get. So it's a good thing that you don't want to misinterpret what the person's saying, but the solution to that isn't to drop out of the conversation and avoid offering your own response--the answer is to speak up about what you THINK the other person is saying. It doesn't mean you're trying to speak FOR the other person, it means you're helping to give them a better means of speaking clearly for themselves, by making it clear to them which areas you need more help in understanding. That's the only way to open the pathway to better communication, and consequently a better understanding of what the person was trying to say in the first place. Granted, it's not exactly the same as one person speaking to another--one person's making a game, and the other person's reviewing it, so it's this weird indirect means of communication where each person makes one soliloquy using two completely different languages. But the only way to gain a greater understanding is to TRY. Sometimes you make a mistake, but making a mistake isn't an indication that you aren't listening or don't care--being willing to make mistakes and learning from those mistakes it what proves you DO care. What proves you DON'T care is if you don't try in the first place.

[@ACodySchuffelen]

It's also notable that Campster did one of these developer analyses too before The Beginner's Guide in the Blendo Games video but is more unwilling now, although no individual game there fit the "Magnum opus" label like this game does.

[@LimeyLassen]

Holy cow, this is real? I still have the demo on my computer somewhere. For some reason I'd been under the impression the game was abandoned years ago. I must have switched timelines.

[@teoentrelibros]

This game's Spanish version, like many others in recent years, was ruined by a translation that is too literal. The dialogue flows really well in English, but it's almost impossible to grasp in Spanish. Every interaction sounds absurd. Maybe game devs are hiring translators assuming their work is good enough and then are unable to verify. Happened with The Long Reach recently too.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

*Iconoclast* and *Celeste* came about a week from each other. That should tell you the kind of luck indie devs face. The "epic narrative" indie game seems to get solidified as a thing. Cave Story, Undertale, La-Mulana(to some extent). But they take so much time and effort to work with. I can't imagine just how many such projects were abandoned. I'm currently at the stage of finding a job and stuff, and many people say to "be yourself". But, in the Indian society, where only things people care about outside their work is politics, Bollywood or cricket, and everything else might not even exist, you have to bend yourself quite a lot if you want to fit into the society. Although, like all things, since the rise of the Internet is changing that quickly.

[@falconJB]

Thats not really an Indian society thing that is pretty much all societies.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Perhaps. But this is the one I've spent all my time, and I can't say anything about other societies without proper knowledge and context.

[@akumoth8357]

huge solo indie projects such as this one and Cave Story seem to be dying overall, with the rise of "indie" publishers, Steam's inmense marketplace making it hard to stand out and whatnot

[@falconJB]

Its only hard to stand out if your game is mediocre.

[@TheLingo56]

Well, when being mediocre is defined by not being in the top 1% of games as far as quality goes then that's a stupefyingly high bar to set. Then again it is the risk that people take when they decide to give everything they have to a creative project.

[@gamingspacemonkey]

I just beat the game on normal mode and HUGE HUGE HUGE SPOILERS BELOW I feel like Royal's death cheats the player a bit. Had that moment come before the gun that makes you switch with your target was given to the player, I wouldn't have felt like I should have been able to get Royal to go on ahead. I understand the gravity of the situation. The player is made to feel like they have a choice, and yet they have to reason with themselves that they don't, and the cliched way too long time limit quickly dwindles away. Yet at the same time as a player I feel like I solved the problem, at least at the door. I have the switch position gun, I can switch my position with Royal or I could just pull the wire so that the panel is closer to the door. At the same time that might be the point eh? I'm coming up with solutions and still thinking "I could have saved him." And then the big boss shows up at the end and makes it very clear that the trip to the moon was a fools errand. It was a big goofy stupid bird, one that was not a God by any stretch who's main concern was to refuel his massive fuckoff ship.

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

Late comment but I feel like the developer's main goal with the story was to subvert expectations. Sometimes he did that in a humorous way, like the ship captain rescuing Robin and Mina and then throwing them back into the water (I laughed my ass off at that), or the fact that "God" was actually someone's spaceship. Sometimes however the subversion is made in a dark and twisted way, like Royal's death. I doubt anyone would have predicted the impossibility of saving him when they picked him up and started walking back to the escape pods. I sure didn't. It also adds some harsh realism to the story, as in real life it's not always possible to save everyone, and not everyone gets to make amends or redeem themselves from their mistakes before dying.

[@TheKingOfApples100]

I love it when creators actually post good stuff on this day :D Thank you

[@pearlcarneiro5432]

Authorial Intent is flawed! Just do the analysis and put forth your own interpretation.

[@Hepyrian]

Oh man when you sum up how Iconoclasts’ characters are simply told to be something and struggle against that, I’m wishing I could put that into my video on the game. Really great take.

[@frydfish4934]

Honestly Iconoclasts story has left me emotionally worn. I'm just tired. I mean, I guess it a hopeful future. But. I'm ruined

[@TROBassGuitar]

I'm surprised by the lack of lore discussion for iconoclasts there is tbh

[@niespeludo]

Agreed... For such a rough lore, there are few of any videos discussing it.

[@xanaxodgrindcorelover9191]

it's interesting how one-man projects are treated differently among video games w/r/t interpretation. they do of course require more effort and time, mostly, but i do music by myself and i don't think anyone would have qualms about trying to infer things about me based on it.

[@garthmarenghi9040]

Played this after watching this review, and fell in love with this disarmingly cute and deceptively deep title.

[@TechyBen]

I have novel ideas I'd like to write... that are pushing 20 years old. People can take an age to get work out... (Mine probably never will... I'd be rubbish at writing... and game programming XD ).

[@LimeyLassen]

Knowing when to abandon a project is a tough thing to learn. I can be better to scrap it and start fresh with something you're really passionate about. As for writing, starting with a novel right off the bat is a terrible idea.

[@TechyBen]

Yeah. I tend to "write" the entire thing in my head. With world building (prequel/sequel if needed) outline completely fleshed out. The only short story I did try, had the entire "direction" set, the "plot" and a partial understanding of the "ending", then I let the characters take it to that destination. I see too many films where things happen, even if the characters would never actually do that. :/

[@DarkSoulSama]

Been waiting for this game since it got announced. Worth it ! The original demo and the Locomalito games got me to start making my own games... Hope I can make something this good one day :P

[@RatOrchestra]

I won't lie, I tried so hard to enjoy this game, but just how bleak it gets and especially everything with Royal's character arc just made me so miserable and angry I couldn't even bring myself to finish the thing.

[@RatOrchestra]

Katherine McKinney I’m not even necessarily saying it’s bad, tbh. It’s just the general bleakness made it such a slog for me I couldn’t summon the motivation to get through it all.

[@thomasrdiehl]

All this restraint is weird compared to literature critics who almost always review works of single authors. I really think you should ease up about it. In fact, when something is the work of a singular maker it is probably more justified to give an analysis rather than less because it is more likely to be intended in its finalized form by the author rather than being the result of many creators' disparate ideas coming together.

[@raidedarts7111]

Campster realizes that analyzing a piece of work by an author is a bit like analyzing their life and personal character, which is kind of scary. This game in particular costs someone eight years of toil. The critic has to analyze the work but, because the author made the game with so much hard work and dedication, analyzing the work feels like critiquing a whole era of their life. Like a personal invasion of someone's mental state and work ethic. Campster's restraint is justified since literature critics are also guilt of making "author-bios" from fiction, e.g. Catcher in the Rye. In sum, work can be pretty personal to the author but don't assume everything about an author from their work.

[@thomasrdiehl]

Well spoken and yet, I can't agree. This game can be bought now and people playing it will have their interpretations of its content, its messages, its worldview. This is unavoidable for any medium, any piece of art. Critique is there to add a new perspective to consider to a piece we experience. Sometimes a piece becomes a point to jump off into a much broader discussion. That does not detract from the original piece, it adds to it. It liberates it from mere existence as a product, helping it advance to become a part of culture. This is not a channel to follow if what one looks for is product reviews. This is a channel followed for its insights. And if a work is done by a single mind, that is all the more justification for such because for once, the maker is a singular mind likely to be of intent. Sharing this work with the world, it is probable this intent is supposed to be understood. It is this intentionality that not only permits critique, it welcomes and requires it. Are there bad critics? Certainly. And they will chime in. This should not stop anybody from offering their point of view. Had I any reason to consider campster of being one of those, I would not follow this channel.

[@raidedarts7111]

My favorite part of this review was when Campster quoted Joakim Sandberg relating Elro's "destructive road" to the development for this. It highlights a kind of hurtful selflessness where you have to put yourself in the backseat for something greater than you. That perspective really got to me because I wondered if this game's polish and unity was more important than the person and their frustrations behind it. I appreciate Campster's attempts to contextualize this game and author, rather than critique, even if it makes for a more consumer or shallow review. Sure, it's less "heady" but it's still valuable. Lastly, I think Campster is afraid to dig into themes because he feels that it would only be him projecting his views on the game without any proper evidence. I wish he did make some amazing thesis about the game but he left that job to the Sandberg, and he doesn't want to displace Sandberg's messages and personal intents with his own. Please realize that sometimes artistic ambitions aren't for the sole purpose for the critical audience, art is how someone expresses their life. I don't think Campster wants to mess with that.

[@thomasrdiehl]

"Please realize that sometimes artistic ambitions aren't for the sole purpose for the critical audience, art is how someone expresses their life." This, to me, is a paradox. Expression needs to be understood to work and critics' job is to help understand. Mostly for the audience, but sometimes even for the authors themselves. That said, I just saw this very interesting tweet by Sandberg: "I've watched a lot of @Campster 's Errant Signal over the years, so it's really nice to see a video on my game #Iconoclasts . It was actually kind of enlightening, seeing a view over my own "career" and intentions, that I am so good at shutting out. Watch."

[@raidedarts7111]

My bad. I should have defined what expressive and communicative art is. The former is conveying thoughts and emotions into art, without consideration of the effect from the observers. The latter does all the same conveying but there is consideration to how the observers will be effected. You're right, this game is communicative. It's released to the public, being sold for money, and should be critiqued. I find it nice that critics have the ability to not only analyze a game with a thematic and mechanical lens but also a way to see the game through their personal perspective, e.g. background. I think Campster's perspective is kind of self-aware yet equivocating. He knows that reviewing this personal game is gonna be hard, but he does it anyway and reviews a bit unwillingly, not wanting to get with the specifics. He's willful to take the reins but his prevailing anxiousness makes him too scattered to make large statement. That's something very human, for better or worse.

[@fungalcactus8286]

This popped up in my recs again and now I'm feeling like I should give this game another playthrough. Probably the most interesting single-developer game I've played.

[@MellowGaming]

I ha donly heard of this game. looking at what you've shown it's pretty astonishing that it was made by one guy, regardless of how long it took. There aren't many people making games that can code, art, music and write... especially to the level this game has. Might need to give this a play.

[@NekoDZ]

Ahhh, I'm so happy you decided to cover Iconoclasts. It has such cool themes and character development!

[@texasranger9599]

Can 2018 be the Summer of Sequels for your videos?

[@brysonhendrix4735]

You are a hidden gem errant signal. Thanks for another great video

[@victorwretched1072]

This game is cool...but the plot is the real deal

[@vVAstrAVv]

Games great Awesome mudic bosses characters and story But the way it treats its BEST characters near the end just makes me unable to forgive it SPOILERS BELOW Like for real might ruin the game for you just dont if youre even a bit interested Maybe youll hate all my fav characters and just love the game even more Find out yourself My homeboy chrome just biting it out of nowhere after already teasing us just an hour before already made me mad But the STUUUUPIDD inability to save royal is irredeemable JUST CARRY THE SCANNER ITS BLOWING IN THE WIND MUST NOT BE THAT HEAVY Oh and best of all The psychopath fuckwit cereal killer elro just gets to go home Good for OUR FUCKING VILLAIN of a brother lol

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

Late comment but even though I didn't care much for Chrome, his story did feel like it was abruptly interrupted and didn't really avail into anything. For a guy who has a lot of screen time and dialogue lines, he ended up not being all that important after all was said and done. Royal was an arrogant dickbag and a nuisance to everyone around him, and while I don't think he deserved to be left to die at the moon (he was trying to make things right by the end), I thought his death was a bold move from the developer to force the player to abandon a character to his death. Death IRL sucks, it's not pretty or dramactic, and most people don't get a chance to tie the loose ends in their lives. It took balls to put something like that in a videogame, especially for an impotant character. Elro is a piece of shit, constantly getting in Robin's way and making everything worse for everyone. However my biggest disappointment storywise was the Mother. After all the the talk about her and the anticipation for the inevitable confront with her, we finally get to meet her and she spills the beans about her plan to escape the planet with barely any provocation, then allows herself to be provoked into a fight, loses and dies. The end. We never got to see what kind of person she really was, or her backstory.

[@Crispman_777]

Did the dev say if he will disclose his intended meaning?

[@user-tc5qc4ql8m]

bro i need a new fucking computer... i just beat this game and then immediately loaded up this video only to see how much better your footage looks than how it actually ran on my machine...

[@Nicholas_Steel]

Very annoying to watch you never jump and fire the grenade launcher downwards.

[@Lucasbbw]

Iconoclasts is a lot about anarchism.

[@sliut1]

Hey! I thought you had a Kentucky Route 0 video, I can't find it now

[@maxscribner1743]

Wow when you started describing the plot my interest spiked tenfold. I guess I assumed this was some plotless flash game from the artstyle. Dumb of me

[@peppage]

Wow I didn't know anything about the history of the game when I reviewed it. I really appreciate how you looked at this game in a different way and associated it with the creator. It makes a lot more sense considering that but I didn't have any of that context when I played. Which I think is unfortunate and the way most people will experience it. Even without it the game is good and a lot of fun to play.

[@Mitsunee_]

I completely forgot about Chalk until I saw it mentioned in this video, thanks for reminding me of another gem I used to have on my cheap laptop that couldn't even run minecraft ♥ (or youtube videos at 1080p, really it was a mess)

[@ZoidbergForPresident]

Just finished it today (difficult mode) and while it has some very nice things to offer, it's been partly spoiled by dubious design decisions and executions. It's a far more interesting games than most AAA though, it's done with soul.

[@TheR971]

Totally went under my radar so far...But damn...Sounds brilliant. I am also impresed, that there haven't been any comparissions to owlboy...

[@MoonSpiritChannel]

Just finished this game not too long ago. I admit, it's a great Metroidvania title, and I love the sprite work. The boss battles are excellent indeed, only to amplified by the kickass song that comes with it.

[@Wolfkaosaun]

I really enjoy order of operation puzzles, so seeing that as a big part of this game is certainly a plus for me personally

[@pyros6139]

GOSH DARNIT it's not blackrock, it's blockrock. Just saying.

[@joko49perez]

Well, I didn't plan on watching this video right now but Damn, this is great. Great video, I'll be sure to check out the game, it looks great.

[@freshboy3968]

2:41 That looks exactly like that one pirate-girl who's laying on that one couch in that underwater place.

[@ShinyMawile]

I did not expect this and I love you for it. Your videos are always enlightening and entertaining.

[@omgomgomgd]

wait, iconoclasts actually released? holy shit, I thought this was an april fools joke.

[@TheUnluckyEverydude]

Oh wow I'm in the middle of streaming this game! Just went through a run through alone and really enjoyed it. Now I'm getting to where the narrative really picks up.

[@JochemKuijpers]

Thanks for the first 1:46. I'll be back for the rest after I've played the game!

[@sergiomaravilla480]

The pirate girl sitting on the couch at 7:27 looks similar to Mina's design in 'Mina of the Pirates'.

[@azurebookllet9216]

That's because it's literally her. "Mina of the Pirates" was worked on by the same guy, and he carried the character over.

[@sergiomaravilla480]

I know & love how konjak has some eastereggs from one of his previous games in iconoclasts

[@helloofthebeach]

Don't that beat all? I thought the girl on the couch looked out of place, mostly on account of her skin color, but didn't realize there was a significance to it.

[@azurebookllet9216]

Yeah, she's Isi, and they are all various shades of brown. They are considered pirates by the One Concern people and their population, who are themselves either white or black, like the guy on the right in that shot, or one of Mother's advisors.

[@MrSchottlander]

I wouldnt have ever known about this title if it wasnt for this video. Thanks!

[@aeternalslime9670]

wow. coming up on a decade of errant signal, huh.

[@ErrantSignal]

Don't remind me; I have no idea how to celebrate it

[@Rhombusreal]

why is it that when a minor game making team that made 2 or 3 titles that are very small sudendly have their next game be one of the magnum opuses of the genre they are

[@rompevuevitos222]

You start with a couple of simple games because you simply don't know enough about game development for a big game You can know how to code, how to make sprites, how to make good audio. But putting all togheter is a completely different story And once you got the gist of it laid down, you can try to fulfill your ambitions

[@MasterMemo]

Yeah, fulfill the ambitions, and then maintain a singular focus and motivation.

[@NicolasAlexanderOtto]

Ok, now I want to play this! Great video as per usual.

[@MemeticMutant]

I'd honestly love a long-form analysis and theory video.

[@zetetick395]

This is _incredible_ for a one man effort! :o

[@XanderHDD]

Great game, thanks for the deep dive!

[@fatguy140ify]

I always enjoy your videos

[@jackburton6239]

I started playing this game, but I just don't find it "fun". The story is somewhat interesting, but early it just seems like a Christian hit piece. I'm glad it is more complex than just that. Happiness is rarely found by doing as one pleases and is far likely found in serving others. Seems like Sandberg's characters feel like they have wasted their lives by letting others "define" them. May be I can find the time and will to continue this game, but the gameplay lacks imo.

[@azooreus]

It is a game critical of religious institutions, and it never once came off to me as some "Amazing Atheist" mindless slander, but a genuinely nuanced one coming from a place of experience. I come from a catholic background, and experienced trauma due to my religious upbringing. I've also had ex-religious friends who have been beaten, choked, locked in a room, for even doing things wrong as a child. I don't personally think religion itself is terrible, but bad people do take advantage of religion and use it to create cults, and prey on innocent people. I feel like this is mainly what this game is trying to say, and it's not incorrect, nor is it doing it with ill intention. I feel like Sandberg genuinely had a bad experience growing up with religion at some point... maybe I'm wrong, but its way too personal for me to believe otherwise. It's OK to be religious, but if you want to handwaive all the terrible things people with power inside religious communities have done to others for centuries, you have a personal problem. Also, I just want to throw in that completely devoting yourself to others is just as bad as being entirely selfish. Going against the One Concern is not necessarily selfish. Robin and her father wanted to be mechanics because they enjoy it, but also because it helps other people. They are available, there is no reason for the One Concern to bar them from assisting their community, yet they are. I can see no argument in defending the way the One Concern rigidly defines people's lives. It's not about the people being selfish at that point, it's about the people in power being selfish. And this, unfortunately, is mirrored in our day to day lives. Not every pillar in society is religious per se, but there undeniably are many religious pillars that perform this behavior.

[@dezeekat]

nice

[@TheCaravanOfTheLost]

why point to the feathers?

[@eslington]

The prescence of the feathers alludes to the final boss fought in the same area.

[@julianh1585]

Neat.

[@zeke8851]

i see someone talking good about my favourite game. i immediately subscribe

[@someoneelse7287]

Just out of curiosity, were you thinking of reviewing Journey, Flower, Titanfall 2 or Battlefield?

[@Kyleology]

If you're that scared to talk about a game then don't talk about it.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

Is it April fools video or not?

[@peppage]

What do you mean?

[@Agyrius]

The video was uploaded during march 31..... GOD DAMNE IT!

[@SnakeEngine]

Not really a fan when someone pours his personal feelings and experience into a game. A game should be a product, not a personal canvas to reflect your feelings.

[@chaotic_error]

Ah, but consider: games are also art. Interactive art. And art is literally all about expressing yourself. So games will always reflect their makers in some capacity, and that is good. If a game has no opinions, it says nothing and the experience will be worse off for it. There have been plenty of "soulless" games which prove this point already. Where the developers, by trying to keep their biases out of the game, made a game that in the end doesn't commit to any point it's making, or worse, doesn't have a point at all.