Impressively Bad Skincare Science: Matter of Fact

Update (14/9/2022): Dr Julian Sass (@scamander14 on IG), a biostatistician and full-time employee of Matter of Fact (Director of R&D and Education) has publicly accused me of bullying him in a video. My response: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
Relevant to this video:
* He didn't disclose his employment by MoF, even in his video accusing me. This is illegal according to FTC guidelines.
* He was one of the influencers paid to compare ascorbic acid to hydroquinone. A few weeks before the post went live, I had privately explained to him that a similar claim in a sponsored post counted as the brand’s claims. Interestingly, it seems that his job at MoF includes… checking social media posts for illegal claims.
* Some of the criticisms he’s interpreted as “bullying” are to do with the accuracy of his posts.
In his video he seems to have confused “organic” with “inorganic”, and thought zinc oxide and titanium dioxide contain hydrogen... or just didn’t care enough to read what he was citing. Neither option is reassuring.
* Additionally, Matter of Fact’s social media “science education” is still questionable - for example, saying asiaticoside is also known as “purified centella asiatica extract”, and glycyrrhetinic acid “purified extract of licorice root”. This makes as much chemical sense as calling gold “purified mud”.
* I think these points further speak to Matter of Fact’s bastardisation of science for profit, muddy ethics, and continued insistence on hiring for appearances, rather than appropriate qualifications and experience.
Fake molecules, unproven claims, questionable inventions... they really didn't have to stick me in their ad as well. Here's me debunking Matter of Fact's "science" (well, sciencewashing) for 25 minutes.
In this video:
0:44 Science-washing for fun and profit
2:58 Matter of Fact brand overview (in their words)
4:08 How they tried to prove their vitamin C serum had "Unmatched Stability"
7:49 "Science" as aesthetic (aka I roast them a whole bunch, then they decide to stick me in an ad)
18:33 What is this "breakthrough discovery"?
21:55 Is their serum even stable?
ERROR: OH MY GOD I shouldn't have trusted their calculations - their accelerated stability actually shows 93.92% stability at 8 weeks (16 months simulated), not 94.25% or 94.3% as shown in their press release/graph etc. That's because the actual starting average % by assay was 20.07%, not 20%. You'd think I'd know better than to trust anything they put out by now...
Subscribe for videos every fortnight: bit.ly/labmuffinyt
Thanks to Kevin T S Vun for providing voiceovers (sorry for making you work while recovering from surgery!)
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[@Motley14]

God this video is incredible. Paul’s going to have to formulate a new breakthrough cream to cure the burn you just gave him because none on the market are strong enough.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

😂

[@kristyphan8676]

This is the best comment 😆😆

[@TroonChica]

Lol

[@acugrrl8]

That sewing at the end 🤣💀😂🤣🤣🤣

[@elleh3711]

@@acugrrl8 🤣🤣🤣

[@kellyk9776]

As someone in STEM too, sometimes I find it offensive when a brand's marketing revolves around "Person who has no experience in science discovered x thing because they're smarter than all the know-it-all scientists!" It's literally just a dressed up version of "woman discovered secret to aging, dermatologists HATE her" Like yeah sure because degrees and experience and hard work are clearly so useless 🙄

[@Turtletoots3]

Paul heard of Paula's Choice and figured he was already halfway there.

[@puffpiece1375]

Paul’s Facts

[@joannablack]

Hahahaha 💀💀

[@catc8927]

He took the “choice” way too literally though. I mean he only chose half of a retinol molecule.

[@quixotic7460]

Instead of Paula's Choice, we got Paul's BS

[@yogarcia6066]

Paul's Pick

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

OH MY GOD I shouldn't have trusted their calculations - just noticed that their accelerated stability actually shows 93.92% stability at 8 weeks (16 months simulated), not 94.25% or 94.3% as claimed in their press release/graph etc. That's because the actual starting average % by assay was 20.07%, not 20%. You'd think I'd know better than to trust anything they put out by now... 🤦🏻

[@elsagrace3893]

How did Paul get 10 million from investors to fund his company? By lying. He’s a king of Bullshit. A real Donald Trump. I mean they attended the same Wharton University! Something about that school. 😒

[@sosilos]

Oh... Sooo it is basically 95,1728% right? 🤣

[@dumbgenious1960]

Wait am I stupid because is that like a small difference? Thanks for the warning though, I just bought a bunch of skincare I need and still need a few things so I’m glad to know to avoid them

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

@@dumbgenious1960 It's a small difference, but it's concerning that their stability data wasn't only flawed, that flawed data wasn't even calculated correctly...

[@justilou1]

Paul Baek, the “My mum did a Chemistry Ph.D so I wouldn’t have to…” and “I was far too busy nurturing my genius.” A cross between Elon Musk and Warnie.

[@puffsplus72]

He absorbed all that chemistry knowledge in-utero, obviously!

[@merlie3880]

This may sound strange but science-washing frustrates me more than the “clean,” “non-toxic” approach to selling skincare. For me the latter borders on the absurd at times and I don’t find myself getting sucked into the claims. If I’m not paying attention though I may at least initially be swayed by an approach that sounds like it’s based in science. Both approaches are dishonest though and I wish advertising would center more on actual product efficacy but I guess that doesn’t sell. 😕

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Me too - I think spotting clean beauty is a lot easier since it only really comes in one form, but it takes a lot more energy and prior knowledge to spot sciencewashing. The arguments I've presented here probably sound like they came to me immediately and are obvious, but they were only really obvious in hindsight, there were a lot of issues that took me months to realise. I think clean is probably worse in terms of impact on the industry/legislation though!

[@ajae...]

It never has and it never will.

[@fray-adjacent]

Yes, I was thinking as I watched this video that I probably would have been convinced by this advertising because I don't have the right background to interrogate it the way Michelle has. Really glad I watched this video.

[@SheasBathLab]

I call it LIES, because "science washing" just doesn't cut it

[@elsagrace3893]

@@ajae... it would help my understanding of your comment if you would replace the pronoun IT with a proper noun.

[@jerry6463]

As someone who’s studying and doing a lot of labs, the segment where you start weighing the pH paper, mixing with the pipette bulb, drinking from a beaker….. really made me break out laughing

[@catc8927]

Scooping with the Erlenmeyer flask was what did it for me. 😆

[@minnatodd9023]

As someone who did like two chem subjects at uni and dropped out afterwards it made me laugh too

[@burningsloth]

The drinking from the beaker 😭

[@splendidcolors]

That was hilarious! @@catc8927

[@SamMKKK]

Agreed about The Ordinary. Anyone can say want they want about the brand’s inelegant formulas or whatever, but The Ordinary pioneered a kind of skin care business (and interest therein) that kinda revolutionized the industry imo.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Yes! I think part of the plan was always to have The Ordinary be an introduction to skincare, then have customers filter through to the more expensive Deciem brands once they wanted to use nicer formulas.

[@SamMKKK]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience You don’t say. Makes sense to me.

[@skyhoward2050]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience 1000%..the ordinary is also not doing anyone any favors tbh 😬🤷‍♀️

[@SaheeliRai]

@@skyhoward2050 for my skin the reduced ingredients are great. Because i react allergic to a lot emulgating agents, colours, perfume and so on.

[@zanerobbins7604]

@@skyhoward2050 the ordinary definitely is doing and did do the consumer many favors. They are the reason we no longer have to pay top dollar for a glycolic acid serum. The ordinary created demand for skincare products that were pretty much unknown to consumers. They completely changed the way people approach skincare. And you should be thankful for that.

[@DrLeslieBaumann]

I am certain they never even read that chapter in my book. I love your posts! So nice to have an honest authentic voice out there educating people!

[@Jmjdit]

financially-contaminated promotion of yellow/orange/brown 'stable' vitamin C (and 'vitamin C' which isn't even 'ascorbic acid') has been prolific across all manner of skin care experts for a long time now. Comments about Prevage's idebenone being superior to anything which has come before (for example in the Allergan press release) using the influence of dermatologists willing to shill are fundamentally no different than this deceptive science washing incident. 'Stable' aqueous Vitamin C serums were never stable, just barely more so than if it they were dissolved in plain water. The talk about stable aqueous C is science washing which somehow passes in the face of color changes and batch variations visible to the naked eye. The formulas made available for sale are also frequently not actually the studied formulas. Frankly I think the skin care companies with the larger budgets often just do a smoother job at hoodwinking the community than these start-ups. Not all of us are fooled.

[@yaboyskinnypenis]

omg it’s baumann leslie (x3)!!

[@morley364]

But surely they read it- they cited you THREE TIMES on that one source! Truly the mark of a rigorous scholar right there.

[@dekusi1857]

holy canoli it's the author :o

[@herdzale522]

Hello Leslie, Baumann, B. Leslie, and L. Baumann 😇😂

[@Minsooky]

Hehe they can delete comments off their IG but they can’t delete this 👀

[@poplikid3306]

I got second hand embarrassment from their attempts at referencing

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I don't understand how they got it wrong three times in a row 😬

[@berkeleyisonline160]

aa As qq​@@LabMuffinBeautyScience

[@fray-adjacent]

I am an atmospheric science researcher and we see this sort of thing with "disruptors" in weather and climate science too. For example, I saw a presentation from a startup claiming they were going to launch hundreds of small satellites with radars to have continuous radar observations over the entire planet, then brushed off the detailed technical questions from me and other experts on the call. You also see private weather and climate companies making big claims about the quality of their products without publishing any verification studies at all. So much of what you've talked about here felt familiar.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Oh lord, I can only imagine what climate startups are claiming 🤦🏻‍♀️ You have all my sympathies!

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

I work in legal and start ups are a culture that most people can't imagine.

[@StinkyFacePal]

They really wanna Big Data™️ climate change? lmao

[@UlrikeScherer]

I was so mad on your behalf at them using your likeness in their ad without your consent! Disappointing to think that other science-based influencers work with them.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you! I don't think the influencers necessarily knew much about the brand before agreeing to do the sponsored content - I believe some of them also signed contracts to do multiple posts over a period of time, and those can be difficult to get out of unfortunately...

[@enesfurkanaydin]

what i exactly was gonna comment, she’s iconic 🖤

[@UlrikeScherer]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience Ah, that could explain it of course!

[@TsubataLately]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I understand why you're being so gracious here, but the influencer didn't do their due diligence. It's reprehensible for them to throw your name around in connection with a brand that they don't know enough about. 😕

[@skinsciencebymira]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience totally appreciate that you don’t want to throw influencers under the bus, especially as it likely wasn’t intentional on their part and likely due to ignorance. But if they’re going ahead with sponsorships, they have a responsibility to their audience.

[@Selene_Rosara]

You just know Matter of Fact is watching this, taking notes, completely ignoring everything you said, and just looking for the ways to "fix" their posts on IG, again. Again, again. 😂

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Unfortunately I think that's quite possibly what's going to happen 😑

[@catc8927]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience At this point they SHOULD be paying you for all of this scientific advising!

[@johnnyarellano7653]

18:28 For the brand to block Michele comments speaks volumes about their brand! Hope they go out of business. We love you Michelle ❤️

[@KHtrinity1]

Right after they say they advocate for her presence 🙄 Soo shady

[@ayameisastar]

They've started harassing her now. So they've gotten even worse

[@lilyhomma6965]

The second-hand embarrassment at watching a CEO and wannabe scientist plagiarize - incorrectly - a blog post from a single skincare science influencer and use everything that he learned - incorrectly - in relentless marketing posts 😬😬😬 Not only is it intensely cringey, it’s gross that he’s using your write-ups without asking for permission or paying you. I know you wouldn’t/shouldn’t have agreed to work with him, but had you theoretically consented to having your work used in such an enormous capacity, you absolutely would have been compensated, and rightfully so. Also, I love the bird of paradise “plant” behind you with its cute articulated stems and chunky petals ⚙️🌺

[@chasingautumns]

Paul Baek, a wannabe Elizabeth Holmes? AND he managed to find suckers to invest in what looks like a scam? This is hilarious. Great video and sorry you had to put your life on hold to address this con man and his game playing.

[@daniela9488]

Exactly the person that popped into my mind!

[@cv7958]

Investors are usually not involved in the industry they are investing in. A company may invest in a beauty brand, restaurant, tech company without ever having worn makeup, been a chef, or studied science in depth. The point in investing is to receive return on investments and whether the evidence supports its growth/profitability. The invest with the idea that the person leasing the company is the expert or will do due diligence in hiring experts etc. There are plenty of skincare companies that are “ok” but extremely profitable (see brands in Sephora). Investors are investing in profits, not if the skincare is the best in the market. Technically, the investors aren’t “suckers” because they are looking for rising stars in the industry whether it’s great or average. With that being said, this company may take a big hit with this shoutout from Michele.

[@allieclark2007]

I came here to say this!!! It’s exactly what I thought…he’s the Elizabeth Holmes of skincare

[@StephenAlain]

@@cv7958 One of them was former Allure editor-in-chief Michelle Lee. She was also going around telling people to buy the product without letting them know she was an investor. Super unethical behaviour!!!

[@UlrikeScherer]

@@StephenAlain How very Susan Yara of her...

[@kylied5234]

Michelle, this was a fabulous video! This is 100% why I follow you. Your honesty, factual information & such obvious passion for what you do ❤️

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you! 🥰

[@CarolAnnEdie]

And the humor! The shade had me laughing through the whole video

[@skortyspice]

When you drank from the beaker in the lab skit my entire body tensed up and expected something horrendous to happen.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Hahaha! That beaker has been nowhere near anything hazardous, but I still washed it about 10 times before doing this, and there were about three takes where I hesitated right before it got near my mouth...

[@skortyspice]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience someone has a healthy self-preservation instinct lmao

[@catc8927]

Oh dear, same here, I totally flinched. A well-taught chemistry lab should instill a healthy fear of what might have been in your glassware and what it can do to you.

[@ellax325]

That was me lmao. I've worked in a lab for long enough to flinch at anyone drinking out of laboratory glassware

[@a_lethe_ion]

@@catc8927 yeah. You have that beaten into you. No ingesting anything in a laboratory. Just no

[@danyf.1442]

Omg really? I wouldn't have managed to be so professional and diplomatic towards this company if I were you, they look sketchy af and you did the right thing to stand by your morals, hats off to you Michelle! And quoting Jesse from Breaking Bad...YEAH, SCIENCE!!!🙌🙌🙌

[@lisscat]

YES Finally some comments on this. The "clean beauty" movement is morphing into this "honest beauty" movement. Which, still really isn't that honest. Are they gonna snitch on themselves and admit the amount of x ingredient in their product isn't doing much?

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I mean... Good Molecules did 😂

[@marellajem]

​@@LabMuffinBeautySciencelink on this pls! 😮

[@ajae...]

He thought his psychology training would would win out over Michelle's chemistry training. It might have worked if his business degree hadn't got in his way.

[@jeniferjoseph9200]

The three genders

[@ananyats5063]

Lol

[@clairewatts4934]

"They mentioned the confusion like they weren't the ones confused." 🤣

[@TaliaOutwrong]

Obviously old mate Paul is a cynical VC techbro interested primarily in making bank on hype alone. What I appreciate most about this video is that in spite of this, you have made a really enormous effort to make your response generous and constructive. We don’t deserve all the hard work and research you do, and that goes double for Matter of Fact, but you are providing excellent resources and comms, and your doing it with a lotta heart! 💖

[@Skincareslug]

I freaking love that you stick to your morals and keep your sense of humor!

[@chocolat917]

You sewing the broken molecule together at the very end was just the icing on an already delicious cake 😂

[@BlushingForeigner]

Eventually they will unblock your comments and incorporate your helpful feedback with scientific sources like: Muffin, Lab. Michelle, Dr. Australia, 3022.

[@nickgreatpwrful5754]

This is sending me 🤣🤣🤣

[@quixotic7460]

lost it at "Dr. Australia"

[@AgentLane13]

Dr. Australia 🤩

[@Karentulla]

I laughed out loud at your boyfriend walking in on you while filming on the floor 😂 love your videos!

[@nicolehines4418]

Omg so did I !! I had to reply like 3 times! That kinda shit happens to me all the time with my bf lol 😂 getting me doing something that may look weird but there’s a reason to the badness. Love it glad your channel popped up on my screen.

[@VictoriaBick]

Patentish person here, I havent looked super detailed into this but here is my take. In regards to your videos example, If they are reliant on 1-3 propaniol to be the feature with novelty and inventive step over Zhang, that isn't patentable. The list in Claim 10 on Zhang is a dependant claim of Claim 8, essentially a fall back position, so if you cant get the coverage of Claim 8 you can ask for less to be granted. If Claim 8 is granted it includes all the possible alcohol solvents meeting the specifications. In fact, for prior art searches (not who can sue who) 1-3 propaniol doesn't need to be in the claims since it is listed in the description example it is known "to the prior art". But I am not sure this is core to their argument, its not in their independent claim anyway.Think they are claiming a specific set of concentrations of the ingredients, nothing groundbreaking IMO. If you look into all the patents that they have filed in USPTO "Global Dossier" site you can literally read what the examiners have said so far in regards their professional searches and opinions, you can read what his lawyers responds and all the updates. The patents I read about "high potency" and "stability" have ALL the claims lacking in novelty and/or inventive step, essentially in the first round of assessment no claim have standed (the examiner just had to cite Zhang again and again). Of course, this is the progress for most patents and it takes a while to narrow down what you claim and get granted but from here but its not like its "completely unmatching" "totally new" "knocked it out of the park from nowhere" if everything they "invented" has easily been. Patents, especially chemical ones are complex but I really disliked how companies just slap patent pending like it means anything when it could just be nothing and for show/trick investors. Anyway love the video as always and have been watching this clown situation with amusement!

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thanks so much for your insight! Yeah I was wondering if they were trying to claim on the fact it was stable with their concentrations, but it sounded like Zhang's patent plus they tested stability with an assay you'd get an undergrad volunteer to do in an afternoon (make a hundred vials of different ratios, leave them for a few months and look for crystallisation), which seemed to match what he described in interviews even less than using a new solvent...

[@playsintraffic2]

The idea that you can focus group a molecular structure ...

[@lilacsunset3848]

Very “alternative facts” energy

[@rubysresource]

I really love these videos where you talk about issues with a brand's marketing. I remember Veritasium talking about his PhD research and how telling people what's true isn't enough for them to develop an accurate understanding of something... You also have to tell them what isn't true. These brands do such a good job of sounding legit and misleading consumers. I don't think consumers will realise how dodgy these brands' claims are unless someone calls them out.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you so much! That's super interesting, and makes a lot of sense! I should really read his research given he used to be the head of my department 😅 Agreed - it's pretty frustrating! I don't want to sound like a total narcissist with a rare yet brilliant mind, but it does feel a bit like not many other people are calling the science-washing out, and it's become kind of my responsibility to do it 😑 I'd love to be able to work out how to get more people to debunk science-washing, but it's not really something that makes for a great business model. Hopefully one day!

[@becauseimafan]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I'm sure I'm not the only one who *loves* and appreciates your "rare but brilliant mind"!! 🥰 I *always* learn something from your videos because you are a great communicator and teacher! (Hey we found the one thing the guy wasn't wrong about! 🤣 "Put one up on the board under Right - that makes a total score of 70 billion Wrong to one Right" 😂 )

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you!

[@voodoomagic90]

Not to rain on anyone's parade but Veritasium has also been exposed recently as being problematic 😅 you can find out how when you look up Tom Nicholas' video about on him on KZbin

[@auricia201]

2:28 😆 that montage was hilarious 😂 Edit: How can you say they are not sciency? They invented a new molecule, "Reti"! 🤣

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

And made a breakthrough innovation with how molecules work 🤣

[@teaQtheQT]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I like how you used the montage to describe and reflect on the idea of science washing. For example, in high school chemistry, we never consume anything from the lab enviroment. By using a clip of you consuming something, it tells me that science washing is often un-scientific. This was really clever!

[@Turtletoots3]

Ugh, how slimy of them to try to use you as free promotion.

[@Summerfall86]

Thank you for 25 minutes of pure science and reasoning. Science storytelling is not easy but you do it perfectly and in a way that is digestible. And much like knowing how to spot misinformation or vet any sort of information, using logic to break down the marketing strategies these brands use. Thank-you again from a fellow scientist.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you so much! That's going into my nice comments folder 🥰

[@avo8479]

All the WHMIS violations in those clips has my soul dying! The weighing pH paper, the acidic coke getting poured in, not using a spatula, but the worst one was drinking from the beaker. I had to pause it from sheer shock, it was too good 😭

[@Jonodo2468]

This video is PHENOMENAL. Thank you for explaining everything so concisely. I appreciate all of the hard work that went into this!! ❤️

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you so much! I'm really happy to hear that, this video did take a lot longer than normal and I went through a lot of rewrites to try to make it clearer 😊

[@amnoirgg8563]

I see these ads in my instagram feed all the time. I’m so glad you addressed this because I’m a sucker for science backed skincare. These videos are so fascinating and the more I learn, the more I learn that I know nothing 😂

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

That feeling is a good sign that you know more than you think you do! 😊

[@BriseisMusic]

They tried to buy you. They couldn't buy you. So they tried to steal you?

[@khalilahd.]

Your videos are so helpful and truly help me navigate the right and wrongs of skincare. You tell us the stuff no one else talks about and that’s why I love your channel! Thanks for keeping us informed 🙏🏽💜

[@sulakaricats]

Skin care is so confusing…..so easy to just try everything new, I decided to go to a dermatologist and my routine is very simple very parred back and focus products are…….retinol and sunscreen 😀

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Retinoid and sunscreen are pretty much the most important things in skincare!

[@myownfreemind6627]

The passive aggressive sarcasm was so perfectly done, just *chefs kiss*

[@RyanThomasWoods]

OMG THE TEA THAT WAS SPILLED!!! I’m hear for it Michelle!!! I full on LOL’d at so many points in the video (the ending repairing retinol truly nailed the coffin shut I laughed so hard). Great video!!

[@jenluv]

I freaking love you. Thank you for taking the time to create content like this. I can see how much work you put into it and it is VERY appreciated.

[@viv6594]

Its funny how these skinfluencers are still promoting this brand. When i made charlotteparlor aware of this she blocked me lol she’s getting paid to promote them and gets praised by her followers for her authenticity

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you so much Jen!

[@forisma]

I agree, thank you very much.

[@yoshidec5029]

@@viv6594 I bought her brand's eye patches, the Dieux Skin Forever Eye Mask, and wrote a review saying how I found using Vaseline under the eyes was much better for locking moisture in and temporarily filling the fine lines than the patches. They only kept the review up for a little bit then permanently removed my review from their site. They are a dishonest brand.

[@laurenclancy7926]

@@viv6594 I’ve heard so many negative things about Charlotte lately! I had my doubts but it seems like a lot of things she said are too sus

[@KHtrinity1]

Michelle, people like you are the only hope for those of us who don't have the chemistry knowledge to identify egregious science-washing! Just like you said, most of us don't have the chemistry knowledge to know when we're being lied to. To be honest, I don't even know what a retinol molecule looks like. Without you and other influencers with integrity, we would have no defence against this kind of marketing.

[@sake9305]

I’ve never heard of this brand thankfully. I actually also thought I had cracked the code on vit C using a similar formula, although less than an hour of reviewing literature on the matter cured me of my false belief. The fact that Paul still went ahead to market products and deceive consumers with untrue claims is disgusting.

[@AbsolutChibi]

lmfao... That bit killed me, " to buy a lock for my room" ahaha

[@rebeccaespinoza1357]

I remember getting ads for their vitamin c when they first launched. I looked thru the posts and saw your comments and ended getting skinceuticals instead. Thank for everything you do Mitchell!

[@nitzeart]

Oh no you sewing together poor Reti at the end 🤣

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Couldn't leave my fallen comrade in that state 😂

[@SofiaSeesBeauty]

Lmaooooo! “It’s ok that we only showed half the molecule because our customers had no idea” 🤣

[@beastghostt]

I know I'm coming across this a year late, but if I didn't now better I'd think this guy started a skincare brand just to get the attention and approval of his favorite influencer; he seemed to be desperately pandering to you, specifically, with all the "corrections", basing his science knowledge off your blog posts without fully understanding them, and feverishly attempting to look credible in your eyes without the slightest idea how. And when he didn't get the validation he wanted, he just stole your face and used it for marketing anyway. This is why we teach our children to take "no" for an answer, so they don't grow up to be this guy.

[@blu4get]

the “bad lab practices” skit section took me tf outtttttt

[@mariamahmed3795]

Every upload of yours is a treat!! I'm so ready to watch you roast them lol

[@10000pears]

thank you for being such a good science communicator!! you're so knowledgeable and honest and passionate, i can know more about skincare and beauty from your synthesized info w/out feeling like i have to become a chemist myself also love the asian lady squatting as you were filming on the floor🤣 i do the same lmao

[@michelc1200]

I just love it when you completely burn a company, you are so efficient and clear

[@puffpiece1375]

I’m not sure they’ll be wanting to work with you after this video but I applaud your integrity. I think you can find better people to work with and we all need to careful who we attach our reputations to. If you don’t want to splurge on a door lock I find a rubber door wedge can serve the same purpose. $1 at Bunnings

[@Helloomi97]

omg those lab scenes are gold!! the cheeto in a beaker ahhahah

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you! There was a lot of cropping to make it look less like my kitchen 😂 It's actually a pipette bulb but I don't own any pipettes anymore so it may as well have been a Cheeto 😂

[@liznotslow]

Omg you sewing retinol back together at the end. 😂😂😂

[@katertot17]

You sewing the molecule back together at the end had me in stitches! 😜😂

[@dominiquedcosta]

Lol! at Dr Michelle's thumbnail facial expression 🤣🤣 Awesome video, as always! Please make more of these ranty commentary ones. I enjoy your sense of humour 😄

[@rebeccapinto9926]

I’ve heard you’ve had a bit of a negative backlash following this video. So sending you some positive vibes and saying we love you and your videos. Stay strong and positive. X

[@charstar2808]

I'm a first time viewer who went partially through a PhD program for materials science (unfortunately I dropped out due to mental health). While I don't particularly have an interest in beauty science, I do have a specific interest in science education/dissemination. Shady uses of "science" to market questionable products is a particular pet peeve of mine, so seeing how much thought was put into this video is really awesome. I got to learn a bit about skincare products as well!

[@aleczandergamboa]

This is the most eloquent roast I’ve ever seen and I am here for it! This is why I love your channel 😍

[@jinx3903]

Thank you, Michelle 👏 I’m not even planning to check out such an unethical company. Shame on them for trying to con us !

[@Peachy_Pikachu]

Michelle your work is amazing! When you said they amputated retinol lol Omg lol so funny, but they did wrong by poor retinol. It's ridiculous how they didn't do a quick search on Google to confirm the molecular structure. Unfortunately, you're absolutely correct about some brands because they're wearing the science badge to promote themselves. One brand approached me , sending me products of my choice. I shared that I needed help and if they could answer a few questions about one of their products. They completely ignored me. Coming from a brand that says science and research comes first and to feel free to ask them questions. Yeah, not so much.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

I think what you're doing is important - the more influencers question brands, the more they'll realise they need adequate answers and will reassess their marketing strategy... or at least I hope that's what will happen 🤞 And thank you!

[@Peachy_Pikachu]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience Awe 😍❤️ thank you so much Michelle. It was only 2 questions. One was about their packaging if it was able to protect encapsulated retinol from light and oxygen exposure. The packaging is standard see-through glass bottle with a dropper. It's the first time I'm using something like this and I don't have enough knowledge to know, so silly me messaged the brand because I thought they would be the best source to reassure me, like any other consumer. They saw my message and ignored me. It's been days and I'm pretty sure they won't give me an answer. I didn't mean to question the brand's quality. I just wanted information about the product and packaging.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

@@Peachy_Pikachu Interesting - it could be that their social media team referred it to someone else because they didn't know how to answer. I've had that done before where I got a reply three weeks later from a different person, and they didn't think to let me know they were forwarding it to someone else! But if their product advertises that it has encapsulated retinol, I think they should really have anticipated that people would want more info on it and have some answers prepared... I'm not sure which product it is, but encapsulation often means you don't need packaging that's as protective, because the encapsulation acts as like a mini seal...

[@Peachy_Pikachu]

@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I thought about that possibility. Perhaps the person behind their social media account asked other members for that information. Today someone shared with me one of your reels about encapsulated retinol. I've gone through their website and they explain encapsulation protected retinol from oxidation. No mention to light, though. Nevertheless, your reel reassured me about the stability of encapsulated retinol. Most encapsulated retinol products that I've seen, they follow a different packaging. Opaque and airless pump bottles seem to be frequent for this type of product. Thank you so much Michelle for answering and helping me with my doubts. Really means a lot because I kinda felt bad not getting a response from the brand and had no choice but to keep all my doubts. Your helped lot ❤

[@gwendolinehall1386]

This really is an incredible video and should have way more eyes on it! You have so much more grace than I do. You gave them some rope to pull themselves up and fix their problems and instead they hanged themselves with it! I can't believe they had the nerve to let your face be put on an ad after you explicitly said no and went out of your way to explain why it was a no from you, and even offer a path forward if they wanted to work with you. They got a free two hour consultation! This was a brilliant point by point takedown of their scientific methods, claims, behavior, product, morals and beyond. His background in chemistry is his mom and his self proclaimed 'brilliant mind.' What a crock! I'm so sorry you're being dragged into this drama. When they approved your face being put in an ad for their product, I think they forced you to act. Unbelievable how many times they were shown they were wrong and doubled down! Much love to you.

[@felipecwouters]

That was a fantastic video! Very well researched and also fun :) About the retinol structure: "Look how they massacred my boy... " Glad to know you stitched it back up! Sending thoughts and prayers for a quick recovery

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you! 😊

[@ybell1294]

I feel like between this brand and that sunscreen propaganda article citation (lmao), you're clearly well-known enough to be considered Skincare Shenaniganery Mainstream. Kudos! 👍👏🤣

[@lipstickzombie4981]

Michelle the best 'Propaganda Source' 👍

[@nauci]

I was devastated by the changes to Beautypedia after Unilever bought PC and had to look for a new source of scientific communication in this space which was trustworthy, and I am SO happy to have found (and now binge watched) this channel!

[@kevinisaliar6776]

i love you for this! feels like investigative journalism lol

[@violetbleedinghart]

This is amazing! Thank you ALWAYS for your knowledge and for breaking down the bullshit for us who just want to use skincare that works for us. Consumers everywhere are a little bit safer with content like this out in the world. 💜

[@rhonaldcastiglionemcbriard2023]

not going to lie this kind of makes me think of the Theranos of skincare

[@DillishUs]

I'm a cell biologist and I use ascorbic acid all the time for cell culture - it degrades so rapidly that we have to make (dissolve & filter sterilize) it fresh every week. Insane for these companies to masquerade as scientists while grossly misrepresenting, or even manipulating information. & WHY CHOP OFF RETINOL such a loss of conjugation, which makes that chemical look so awesome!!! Also, the sipping from a beaker made me both laugh & cringe 😬 this is my first time watching, & love this channel for being so honest, from the rigors of becoming scientifically literate, to the silly ring-light " behind the scenes footage" 💙 thank you for highlighting the need for experts to scrutinize findings, & for publicizing that it's impossible for any single person to know everything about a scientific field. We need more people like you to hold companies accountable. Scientific claims need to hold water before being slapped onto a product, & compound stability is such a grossly overlooked angle - I wish they'd be more forthcoming with the effects and shelf life of active ingredients.

[@vedavoid3220]

dang, you've got me rethinking my skincare. i don't do much, i'm not really into the skincare space - i have extremely sensitive skin, and trouble justifying spending money on supposedly gentle products that just don't work for me. but i've been wanting to learn, because i know it's important to treat your skin well - i just don't understand the chemistry quite yet, so it's hard to know what will mess with me. the way you explain things, though? it makes me feel like i have a fighting chance to figure it out! i have had icky feelings about greenwashing and sciencewashing for a while as well. at this point, i just don't accept things companies say without double checking the opinion of a non-affiliated expert. i just stumbled on your channel, so i'm not entirely sure what your science story is, but i'm extremely impressed with how you present the data AND the story of the shadiness. i deeply appreciate how much you emphasize the data and need for fact checking/not making unverified drug claims. it should be standard, but it's unusual and admirable for an internet personality to turn down a major sponsorship in favor of deconstructing the junk science.

[@8aemi]

What a beautiful video.. I am very happy we have someone like you among the ytber community; I have noticed this over and over not only on skincare but didn't know how to describe it but "science washing" is the perfect way to call it; using disconnected facts and random sciency words to sell a product is not only wrong but it's even dangerous as it spreads missinformation and unnecessary confussion; I respect you even more after this vid :)

[@bettyvick2850]

This video is soooo adorable. Right down to sewing 🧵 the pieces of the retinol molecule together at the end. I feel that you really took the high road pointing out the misinformation and miracle claims. Thanks so much.

[@helenabobena]

I’m just now getting caught up with all that’s happened, going backwards on your videos and posts. First off - I’m so, SO sorry you’ve been put though so much. I understand this is so common in different “sciency” fields now and out of control. Secondly - We respect the hell out of you and you’re probably also the funniest person on the internet IMO. Thank you for spending so much time educating us all. You’re truly one of my heroes. 🎉❤

[@ajp983]

This is why I watch you! 🙌 There’s something quintessentially Australian about the way you call bullshit with that hint of condescension and sarcasm. Amazing. Going to create dozens of new KZbin profiles and like this video on every single one.

[@ClassyBadAssy1]

Keep UP the great work! Unfortunately, chemistry is not a required science course in the US, which makes consumers quite vulnerable to marketing claims and pseudoscience.

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

Thank you!

[@coral_seas]

What impresses me so much about you, beyond your obvious vivid intelligence and breadth of knowledge, is how consistently graceful you present any issues you might have with a company or individual. Or, as you might say, someone who is acting "SUSS". 🤣 It's so far from the usual drama commentary which saturates KZbin, you manage to consistently put a humorous yet incisive spin on the events, while remaining unwaivering in your statement of FACTS. It's so unusual on this platform to find so much class in one place. 💕

[@RlRdHd]

No wonder why people have zero faith in marketing claims anymore.

[@lisaduchateau]

What an eye opening video! I am a complete layman about much of this, but you are able to communicate this information so clearly. Thank you for your content! I really appreciate the science clarifications about how vitamin C works for the skin. Especially now that I'm trying to slow the aging process. It's pretty crappy what Paul did to you, and sorry that you had to suspend your other content to address these claims. Again, thank you so much for your content. I learn so much!

[@lindajoy23]

So glad I hadn’t heard of this bogus brand before watching your video Michelle, lucky me and thanks for the well researched and beautifully explained content☺️

[@elsa3844]

Sounds like he has a PhD in gaslighting from the way he answered the questions.

[@DavidCruickshank]

I'm so glad your're here to debunk the science parts that are so much harder to figure out on your own then clean beauty nonsense. Thank you for all your hard work!

[@graymellark]

This video is so informative and well-presented. Thank you for putting in the time and effort (and effectively delaying everything else you have going on) to put this out. I love skincare, and I love skincare science, and you are one of the best people in this community. Hope you get the apology you deserve (though I won't bet my vitamin C serum's stability on it-- I have Klair's btw, notoriously fast at turning brown).

[@annarose477]

I love this!! Thank you! I love how you can be so sweet and lovely and yet throw some HARD shade just by presenting facts. That's a science win 💪💪. Stand up to the bullies ✨😎💪 I'm currently studying masters by research in pain science and I'm inspired by your channel. Much love from Adelaide

[@catc8927]

Tell me you don’t know organic chemistry without telling me you don’t know organic chemistry: thinking 1,3-propanediol not being listed in the Zhang patent was an exploitable omission, when it clearly said “polyols.”

[@laurenlewis2949]

This video is just immaculate. The further you dive, the worse it gets! I love Michelle. The b-roll of the backwards labwork is a lovely touch!

[@Jackie-tr9ey]

Absolutely love this. Sciencewashing frustrates me so much. As a consumer it’s already hard enough to know what to trust and it’s even harder when brands hide behind claims like this that seem scientific and prey on most of us not being able to tell the difference. We need more channels and people like lab muffin who are not scared to speak up and stick to their morals and values. Ive learnt so much from you and sincerely thank you for your videos!

[@caleb-kun]

Your videos of these type rlly need to be shown to children in their science classes, until there’s a proper science literacy course taught at a large scale. Thoughtful skepticism toward science, or even just critical thinking, is soooo lacking in the public. The pandemic thrust this issue to the surface, and misplaced trust or distrust in science led to dire consequences… educating children to be “citizen scientists” or informed laypeople would at least protect them from being exploited by brands, and at most empower them to make better decisions on their health and well-being. Great work as always

[@nk3850]

Posting the a cut off version of the retinol molecule 🤣🤣🤣🤣 and “the focus group didn’t care”

[@janicewright8139]

Thanks for making this video. I just researched which influencers sponsored this vitamin c brand and thankfully none of the influencers I follow are included in the list.

[@SueRosalie]

the part about the focus group was hilarious! Keep up the good work.

[@jamieoc76]

Thank you for the education on so many levels. Honest and very educated, Michelle is also quite funny. Education and entertainment mixed together in a formula that helps one to grasp the simplicity and complexity in skincare science and products. Not only does she show how light degrades vitamin C, Michelle shines light in places to help dispel confusion and expose the trickery of smoke and mirrors. Awesome!!!

[@Emmie1]

GET HIM/THEM! I think if I had gotten a job offer like that, I would have accepted simply because I was flattered + I wouldn't have understood how underqualified I would have been for the position (nor that the position was essentially window dressing). I think that's how a lot of influencers get into collabs or start businesses that fail miserably.

[@michaelw1]

When I opened the video I thought I'm not watching this for 25 minutes. Now I'm at the end and couldn't take my eyes away! Thank you :)

[@joeolsen4324]

I’m just feeding the algorithm I think this is important work to elevate

[@sunscreenhoarder6558]

Oh I've been waiting for this one 👀 MOF are so incredibly shady

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

Reti? That's clearly 1,3,3-trimethyl-2-(3-methyl-1,3-pentadiene)-cyclohexene. I forget where to add in the "cis."

[@LabMuffinBeautyScience]

😂 But her friends call her Reti!

[@catc8927]

Thank you for going through the trouble of naming this poor amputated molecule. It’s the least we could do for it besides sewing it back together.

[@kiechemeleson3666]

It sucks that this happened but thank you for explaining all of this. I love following your videos because you clearly explain aspects of cosmetic chemistry that I am truly curious about but don't have the time and expertise to know myself. I have a Ph.D. in physical chemistry, but as you said, I can't know everything about chemistry and my expertise is so narrow that it's great learning from other chemists that make content as you do. I really hate the science washing and clean beauty claims I see from so many products, so I really appreciate that you take the time to debunk a lot of the nonsense. I love that you were sewing the poor retinol molecule back together at the end of the video :)

[@av8348]

Appreciate the reti and the nol being stitched together in the end. Thank you!