Indian Could've CRUSHED the Harley Low Rider this Year But...

[@TheUnwokeFool]

GET TO THE DAMN POINT!!!!

[@matthewhaag2138]

Thank U👍👍

[@BlinkingKillswitch]

Yeah, I respect this guys opinion but usually for the first 5 minutes he literally just yaps about nothing to make the video longer. Is what it is I suppose.

[@mikesbikechannel4387]

I blame KZbins algorithms.

[@BlinkingKillswitch]

@@mikesbikechannel4387 Thats fair

[@1mantisco]

Lol

[@paulfreespirit]

I'm happy they've kept the Thunder Stroke engine, prefer it to the Power Plus!

[@1mantisco]

The thunderstroke is a thing of beauty

[@mosgor]

I think Indian Motorcycle is spot on with the new Sport Chief RT. This is exactly the bike I would have bought this year if my finances had allowed it. Could it have had a bigger engine? Yes, of course, but the 116 Tunderstroke is a mighty machine. and that Tunderstroke will probably come in a 122 version closer to the summer, that is - if I know Indian Motorcycle right. Codename Colt: will be Indian Motorcycles Next Chief.

[@mrdude3540]

Excellent review! Unbiased. This is why I like your KZbin channel.

[@vmonk1474]

I agree totally, and I’m an Indian guy. I think the Chief RT looks good, even though the bags are small, but that’s about all. It does not have good lean angle. It’s a Sport, with inverted forks for good curve handling, but will scrape too easily. They darn sure should have put a Powerplus engine in that bike. It’s a bummer that they’re discontinuing the FTR. With great power, handling and good lean angle for the twisties, I’ll keep mine

[@SpudsMcHaggis]

For the Power Plus to fit in the Chief, Indian would have had to redesign the whole frame as the PP is a stress mounted motor and will not fit in the double cradle frame it currently has.

[@damnice]

I have the 2023 Sport Chief with the stage 2. The torque & hp are more than enough with my gf on the back. Solo the power is intimidating. There is no need for more gusto at all for this size of a bike. The advantages of liquid cooled are awesome though & it'd be really sweet to have that option on the Chief. I live in SLC, Utah which is far from the hottest area in the nation. I imagine the heat with air-cooled is a much bigger problem for southern states. All the improvements Indian/Polaris has been making the past 5 years is super encouraging though. I don't think it'll be much longer for them or for HD to swap to a majority of liquid cooled engines.

[@HDR20]

So Amazon bags and cheap kuryakyn radio and charge 23k ?

[@ralphrotten6912]

Guess I'm old. All these features, fairings, radios, hard bags, abs, traction control, etc, etc, etc, I dont get. When I ride, I want the wind in my face, the noise and vibrations of the bike to tell me I'm riding a motorcycle. Simplicity and freedom of the ride. Bikes are too fancy, expensive, and complicated now. The joy is fading....

[@rainergerwig]

You are spot on!

[@myronmosley2167]

Then get the ones without all of that. Indian Chief base series (111), Indian Scout base models, Indian Springfield the base and darkhorse model. Don’t want the tech, you don’t have to have it, they literally make versions without it. If the joy is fading, that’s not an Indian or Harley problem, that’s a you problem.

[@ralphrotten6912]

@myronmosley2167 Yep. Like I said, I'm getting old. Looked at all those bikes. You have to be familiar with tech. Have a Euro 5 reader to work on them, etc....I didn't expect anybody would understand my statement except older guys, ones who have lived it. Those of us uncomfortable with all these new things. So sure it's a me problem. Youngsters will find out in time, everyone gets a turn...

[@Bkamaclean]

Needs a 5 gallon fuel tank, larger fairing, larger saddlebags. Liquid cooled engine I can take it or leave it.

[@JigsawJoe13]

So a challenger?? 😂

[@DarrellTurnerJr]

The 108/112 PP requires a tank redesign on the Chief. Its slightly larger than the 116. That would require a complete over haul of the Chief platform. The new 108/112 Chieftain is nothing more than a challenger with a fork mounted fairing. Thats why they are still offering the Springfield and DH model with the 116 and the 111 Chieftain which is a completely different platform from the Chieftain Powerplus. Indian is all over the map with this release and is going to confuse customers. It's going to be interesting when two friends both show up with 2025 Chieftains and realize it's more than the engine that's different.

[@vackyvlada1]

No matter what Harley do on performance side, it's just not possible with pushrod. On the other side OHC Powerplus engine is what that word means- performance bagger. Indian is just always step ahead then Harley. 😊

[@usmcvet0313]

The 112 gains 5 ft-lbs & 4 hp for a $3k upcharge on the dark horse & elite models. $31.5k for a 112, which gains you a ‘massive’ 5 ft-lbs/ 4hp… People are complaining about HD’s prices, this is a rip off. 117 M8 motor is very comparable to the Power Plus motor, and out performs the TS 116.

[@GEN084]

@@usmcvet0313your not just getting the 112/ the 112s only comes with all the new tech with engine upgrades that you can’t get on no other model! They gave us 6-7k worth of tech and upgraded engine for a up charge of 3k. The 112 model shud cost more than the cvo’s for what ur getting, lets be honest

[@StevePhillips76]

Harley did a good job with the Low Rider ST, to get those kind of numbers from the factory is great. I think that the Thunderstroke platform has been very reliable, there are some aftermarket options so with a good set of cams, exhaust and tuning you can get some pretty good results and have the reliability there as well. To your point, if they could have put it out with a stage 2 cam from factory I think those numbers would have been easier to deal with (when comparing to an HD). Thanks for the video.

[@adammorgan7874]

They should have put a damn fairing on it like the LRST to go along with the bags. I could care less for the speakers. They missed an opportunity to say the least.

[@usmcvet0313]

This is more a competitor to the HD Sport Glide than the Low Rider ST. I think this one will sell like the Sport Glide did, which is not well in the US.

[@generalsirconn1545]

Indian most definitely should’ve put the 112 power plus engine into this new 2025 chief-RT model

[@thehomeless_trucker]

I own a Indian... I talked sh*t all year on HD about how they keep dropping the ball... I will spend this year talking shit about Indian and may even trade my Indian for a new HD. I was hoping to trade it for a new Indian, but Indian drop the ball this year. The 108 in the sport chief would have been awesome. I'm now looking at the 2025 lowrider st and Pan America st

[@paganrythyms]

Should have a bigger fairing, bags that don't look like they were ordered from Temu, liquid cooled, more HP.

[@Mr190606]

10:18 seconds of my life, I can't get back!!!! This was your big gripe? SMH 😆 🤣 😂 I've got to be more careful!!!

[@mattbroussard7409]

The bags look hilarious 😂. Besides that the faring could have been a little bigger and 2 into 1 exhaust. If you're hinting that it should've had a liquid cooled power plus motor I think that would have been a bigger mis than those dorky bags. The Chiefs need to stay air cooled old school.

[@road_king_dude]

Ah man well, you'll always have your dime-a-dozen Dynas and FXRs all over the place.

[@mattbroussard7409]

@@road_king_dude I think the Chief RT is a direct competitor with the Lowrider ST, but at this point the Harley is hands down better at being a tourer. And currently Harley having all the softails with various iterations of the 117 M8 is the way to go. Indian needs to get more horsepower out of the Thunderstroke to compete. But as Hegshot is thinking Indian might be ready to abandon air cooled motors altogether, which in my opinion would be a terrible move.

[@road_king_dude]

@@mattbroussard7409 Theyre both solid. Indian has pushed HD for the better no doubt. Those '25 models though . . . Ugliest bikes the HD has ever made nan

[@JA-zh5xi]

Indian doesn’t have a unique bone in its entire corporation. It’s just Polaris making cheap/bad quality copies of Harley. It’s actually pathetic.

[@dmitrykhramov1832]

….RT is not gonna be a competition for HD LR ST at all, not with those kids size “lunch “ bags! Not even talking about the fairing (you can’t put a larger fairing with those tiny bags - will look silly 🤔 ) ….. Everyone’s taste is different and I hope the brand does well. I just don’t see a bike , so that I would say:” …I gotta have one no matter what… !”

[@danielbukowski]

The point : Why didn’t Indian also put the 112 PowerPlus in the Chief/Sport Chief?

[@joshuabenoit3744]

the frame is designed for the thuderstroke engine and why would they redesign a new bike? This is the same reason the PP Chieftain is on the Challenger frame.

[@windtherapyaddict]

Nice to hear about your thoughts on the positive and negatives.

[@slim56]

While the PP engine would be cool in the chief. I think it would require a redesign of the frame. The chieftain and challenger use the same frame so putting the PP in the chieftain was simple.

[@tabootaboo384]

I don’t see nothing wrong with it the bags can go little bit bigger than the size it is

[@michaelconran5252]

I think Harley's M8 looks way better than the Thunder Stroke. Ironically I love the looks of Power+ over the RevMax. I look at the bikes every year, nothing by either have made me want to get rid of my 2020 Street Bob. I'm a chill rider, even though I do all day rides, the power of the 107 is enough for me. If they made a Street Bob 120 Anniversary Edition, I would have bought one. Those colors were amazing.

[@awdadwadwad1723]

I have 107 street glide special and there isn’t a day when I’m not wishing to have Indian’s 122HP Challenger

[@NostalgicMotorcycles]

I whole heartedly agree. I clearly don’t know the reason for not using a power plus in the chief and after feedback from chieftain I’m sure it’ll happen next go around. Could very well be a not everything all at once situation so we have a new bike to market next year( probably the reason ). But trying to beat Harley at Harley’s game will be Indians down fall. Be a competitor but not replicator. How do you beat a low rider. 130 hp and torq from a power plus. Use modem tech to get modern power which Harley can not do. Don’t beat them at their own game play to their weekends and use it to shine. Challenger sales proved that long ago. Powerplus the whole line up.

[@403punk3]

Time Stamp 5:50. HD is not using liquid cooled heads in the softails my friend. So trying to make that comparison to the LR ST kinda just fell short. But that being said I totally am with you on saying Indian should have definitely put there liquid cooled 112 power plant in this bike.

[@jasonp1177]

Indian just tossed some ugly bags on the SC and changed the name. 😂 How about making a nicer rear fender that isnt just bobbed and making the bags actually flow with design vs some half assed ammo crate shaped bags. Dont see this thing selling very well. Make some pull back risers as even the tall riders complain its not comfortable after a short rides.

[@saddle8bag]

What you are seeing is the difference between HD's 4 valve heads and Indian's 2 valve heads. HD is mondo more powerful. A few things first. 1) Mfg figures will always be different than dyno. The mfg can measure the power at the crank. The dyno measures it at the rear wheel. There are losses between the two. Dyno will always be less optimistic. 2) Torque is meaningless w/o specifying the rpm at which it's made. HD makes 128 ft lbs @ 4k rpm. Another way to say this is the HD makes ~ 97.5 hp to create 128 ft lbs of tq @ 4k rpm. It makes 114 peak hp which is roughly 120 ft lbs @ 5k rpm. 3) The Indian makes 120 ft lbs of torque at 2900 rpm. This is ~66 hp. I'd guess it probably tops out around 75 hp @ 4k rpm. 4) Ironically, Polaris taught HD how to make a proper air cooled, 4 valve Vtwin engine. It was called a Victory. Polaris goofball CEO bought the rights to Indian and put a hot, low revving, 2 valve engine in it. HD took Victory's lead and brought out the 4 valve M8. The rest is history. 5) The torque at the crank is really meaningless to us riders. The power curve tells you everything there is to know about, well, the power output of the engine. The torque:rpm is a ratio that gets changed at your rear wheel every time you shift a gear. If your engine produces linear power, it will have a flat torque curve. It's math. Humans don't "feel torque," we feel acceleration. As long as your engine continues to make more power as the revs rise, it will continue to accelerate you. Tq is important if you want to tow boats w/o lugging the engine. 6) None of this means the HD is a better engine, but it's objectively a FAR more powerful engine. Personally, I like throttles that I can modulate. I ride fun roads, not just whack the throttle WFO on highways. IMO, the fueling in the HD 117s is atrocious. That's a shame as it was as near to perfect as it could be on the smaller M8s. 7) The reason they put those hideous, tiny bags on there is so that silly piggyback shock doesn't bang into them. I saw someone put the new Scout bags on the 101 Scout with piggy back shocks and the canister chewed into his new saddlebags. 8) All that said, that new LR looks bomb in blue with the chrome. It might be worth taking the chance that someone can tune the engine so its power is delivered smoothly. If they would have brought this one out in the new yellow w/ the black engine, I probably would have just thrown my money at the HD dealership.

[@nikgedz1538]

More color options would be nice other than Black or silver/ grey....loke come on now theres so much potential for flashy colors and logo design

[@Rambiker2023chief]

It should’ve shipped with stage 2. Low rider S already comes with the with stage 1 stock. 17% more power would’ve leveled the playing field

[@davejohnson7678]

Radiators add weight, weight is the enemy plus all that liquid. Airplaned use air cooled and it is good to fly.

[@chiefjoseph8154]

So now the Chieftain is a fork mounted fairing Challenger?

[@jasonp1177]

Yes, the Chieftain PP is a challenger except for fairing. 😂They have the TS model too.

[@mudhutproductions]

I'm not a big fan of audio systems on bikes. Having to sit an an intersection on my Z next to a bunch of bagger brothers blaring Santana at distorted volumes while trying to outdo each other with free revs is ridiculous.

[@tkordik]

Harley bros gonna harley (again)

[@diggrouze]

Not the same frame setup as the challenger or new chieftian..which now share the same frame for the PP. having said that.. I think there is a new chief in the works for a liquid cooled engine.. maybe a brand new design? ... I also love they went with the PP in the RoadMasters.. Indian was smart going that direction with liquid cooled.

[@JoelDay-n5z]

A powerplus chief would be nice but I still feel indian missed it with the sport and now the r/t is not having more power than the other models.

[@Its.Adam.]

It's just like the Honda rebel 1100 looks kinda the same too

[@stevenincognito9498]

The bike looks good tho

[@myronmosley2167]

Everybody chasing power numbers and basing whether or not a bike is good or not because of it is ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people don’t even use the power a 111CI engine has on tap, much less the 117, 121 or whatever other size engines these manufacturers are putting out now. They just want a big number on the side of the engine so they can brag to their buddies at bike night. Just like people complaining that the new 112 power plus should’ve been bigger even though the stock 108 crushes 99.9% of all the stock engines Harley has and it has been doing so in king of the baggers. The 111, 116, 114 and 117 are great engines and are more than enough power for 99% of riders. At this point people are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[@slim56]

For the price of the chief RT. I’d rather just get a Springfield.

[@Sovspot]

I wish it was liquid cooled. Air cooled v-twins are terrible and should just categorized in the fossil record.

[@Whisky148]

Fuel tank

[@Dreskur01]

Because of the Sport Chief RT this years line up is lack-luster

[@Group_Anonymous]

too much blahblahblah

[@robbyclark6915]

Seriously, this bike looks like Indian said, “We give up. Harley wins the mid size, sport touring battle.” The tunes are a nice addition. The bags are AWFUL! They look like something I found on Amazon till I can afford better. The weird exhaust remains. The same old 116, odd looking, thunder struck engine, cause Rock n Roll brother!! Thunder struck!!! This doesn’t look like a serious attempt, at all. It’s a joke when compared to the Harley. I’m sure it’s a fine bike in its right, but it’s supposed to be competing with the Harley LRST with that fairing, those bags, that 117 HO Milwaukee 8 engine, 2 into 1 exhaust, all those colors, all those options, all the aftermarket! And why would you use twin shocks if you can use a mono? Anyway, that’s my thoughts, and my thoughts are what counts. In my world anyway.

[@road_king_dude]

Found the Harley fanboy! 👆

[@robbyclark6915]

@ aaah, did I hurt your soft little feelings sweetheart?

[@fp2613]

Harley should worry bout their woke policies and shithead CEO/Board Members