Innovative App Receives Battering Over Technology Rights | Dragons' Den

[@Jordothecat98]

Peter’s rage increases 10 fold when it’s a technology pitch

[@devanman7920]

its his field so he knows all about it.

[@TheR3negadeMaster]

No he only knows about cameras

[@BenjaminGoose]

@@devanman7920 He THINKS he knows all about it.

[@nanathegoat5106]

Facts

[@farmersmith7057]

@@TheR3negadeMaster his rage increased 100 fold when the smartphone camera accessories pitch was made.

[@AhhDubya69]

"I'm not a mug" - zooms in on peters mug.

[@netweed09]

That's the whole point 😂

[@uzijn]

6:42 for those wanting to see Peter's mug

[@iranicus3393]

6:45

[@anubusx]

The mug is in charge of him...

[@rickjamesb.]

I understand how tense it must be but it was kind of funny when both of them started sweating profusely the minute the first Dragon (Peter) started grilling them lol.

[@netweed09]

The bearded guy couldn't even speak, lol. Just frozen! The other guy handed his composure well but was deluded and/or stubborn all the same

[@hungryrefrigerator5784]

I think the producer might put hot lights on the pitcher, that’s why they sweat so much; but I’m not 100% sure.

[@DARKgirafa]

@@hungryrefrigerator5784 I mean yeah but pitches also last like 1h in real time.

[@hungryrefrigerator5784]

@@DARKgirafa I actually heard in a interview from Deborah that the pitches last for three hours.

[@simonjohnson4704]

For sure there’d be hot studio lights on the pitchers and cool aircon blowing on the dragons.

[@RRX]

I've been on a dragon den binge... I've even seen Jenny make an offer.

[@BharatKumarBellamkonda]

I have seen 2 times Jenny making offering

[@johnyepthomi892]

@@BharatKumarBellamkonda she backed out on some of those offers too

[@BharatKumarBellamkonda]

@@johnyepthomi892in one offer related to electricity bills she made good profit.

[@IshmanDebba]

@RunRex Well done. You have reached Dragon's Den Veteran status. I too have viewed the much coveted Jenny offer episode. Up until then I had thought it was simply a myth.

[@hurleycapetown8420]

I have heard about these rare sightings but I am yet to see one.

[@MTRAdmiralty]

It's amazing how the air conditioner only works on one side of the room.

[@RealRushinRussian]

Underrated comment

[@streaks8825]

😂😂😂

[@richt3993]

Rule 1: Know your numbers Rule 2: Dont offer equity in your fledgling company and exclude the established parent

[@LunarFlame455]

Rule 3: don't lie to the dragons

[@techtitanuk5609]

Rule 4: don't tell them about the established company

[@pathe8519]

Rule 1.1: Tell them the numbers

[@gregorymyers3886]

and this holds true on shark tank and dragons den in multiple countries. they made one of the two cardinal errors.

[@thiswasposted120]

don’t talk about other companies or else peter jones will say “you should have come in and pitched 20% of that company” or “you should add this company into my deal”

[@nick2s]

I can't recall any pitch of a distribution company ever making a deal on any version of the show where the parent company isn't involved.

[@ListerLanius]

Im not a businessman but why would you not want tech tycoon Peter Jones to invest in your tech company where the tech is being built? This pitch really messed with my head

[@basstrammel1322]

I wish I knew. People are so strange. Getting any kind of deal in the den would be life changing, and still there is loads of decieving, lying, shady, greedy, and unprepared people coming in. Even after so many seasons!

[@chibichan6421]

@@basstrammel1322 prolly a scam, if you can't say then its not worth it.

[@tiltonas9438]

Because more than likely the holding company doesn't need any money. The ones that need money are these guys. The distributors.

[@christinasornbutnark1208]

Bc it’s already sold in Denmark and they are not permitted to dilute the stock, typically not till after they hit sales targets.

[@brandoni241]

Because that tech Tycoon would want a portion of the profit from that company and they aren't willing to do that. Understand, even if their product doesn't take off they hold the rights to technology that another company could use and have to pay for. Peter's mad because their not letting the investor in on the ground floor. I mean sometimes, it's better not to go with an investor especially if the owner knows the value of the technology...

[@itsatallworld]

Sarah is the master of re-wording Peter/Deborah's reasoning.

[@Superrayjunw]

Hi i’m jenny and i’m out

[@Superrayjunw]

Hi i’m out

[@jackiecheng4161]

Sarah is the only one in their league that can talk back to them lol

[@Asif-kh-n9r]

She's basically pre-Jenny Jenny

[@karnold2807]

@@Superrayjunw hi I’m Jenny and for that reason I’m out

[@tonydarcy7475]

These people were really ignorant. They basically said “we want to expand into the UK, so how about you give us some cash to do so and in return we will give you a small stake in our UK subsidiary business that has nothing of value, other than the cash you gave us”.

[@CabbageYe]

I feel like many of these guys come on here just to get free advertisement..

[@redacted7634]

@@CabbageYe 100 precent!

[@Kimoharoun]

Honestly id give them a loan. It is safer than an equity stake. Also there is very little upside in an equity stake. Also the collateral of the loan should be the company in Denmark.

[@byronaus]

Whoa, so you watched the show too?

[@HIOP0]

Did you deduce all of that just by watching this clip?.

[@kingzoe5534]

First thing they said when they responded to Peter *“so we have another company”* 😂😂😂

[@alfisyahr]

Its like they want to lose

[@thealien_ali3382]

Idiots 😂

[@davidmcmahonjr1990]

Did anyone just focus on the guys weird looking facial hair?! Looks like he ran a razor through the connection between the side burn and beard

[@deenbookpro]

What on earth has that got to do with anything..?

[@davidmcmahonjr1990]

@@deenbookpro its called an observation ...

[@HIOP0]

Nope jr, no-one at all noticed that...

[@kyri9]

😂😂😂😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Spartacus679]

I did all good, he looked like a marvel henchmen

[@GodlessGrandpa]

They actually installed one in Jenny's house but when they tried it there was no answer. She was out.

[@Achdr1960]

Lol 😂 that is a good one

[@ListerLanius]

Keep them coming lol

[@CyberJawa1986]

Now that’s funny 😁

[@kierankeegan4665]

take a bow ..class 😂😂😂😂

[@Noelito40]

Could be one for the "what were they thinking" bracket! Although I think they knew exactly what they were doing, and they got found out. And it sounds to me like there's a dominant partner in the relationship and what we heard was what he wants, not what both want.

[@kennedyreid2504]

Agree! There was something they were not saying! They didn't have the power to negotiate

[@yebo-gogo]

I'm sure Shazam could easily add this to their app. it's just putting different alarm sounds into their database

[@heiko3169]

I don't know when this episode originally got aired..... But at least nowadays any software developer could write you such an app, with all the technologies available for anyone through cloud-based Software-as-a-Service. I am a developer and I write you such a thing in a couple of weeks (if not less).

[@ifwecouldvote]

yeah, a lot of app developers could throw something workable in a few days. any app can control light, sound and vibration on your phone if you allow it, and detecting sounds and comparing them is decades old technology.

[@KumaBean]

Wouldn't work, you'd have to have the app permanently open, preventing you from using your phone for other things.

[@ifwecouldvote]

@@KumaBean Nope, apps can run in the background.

[@HelloHigogo]

iPhone now (I don't know for how long) has this built in as an accessibility feature and I'm sure android either has it as well, or at least there are free apps to do it.

[@TonkaJay]

It's as if these guys never seen a single episode.

[@thealien_ali3382]

Hahahha they tried making the dragons look like idiots 🤣

[@jimmyneutron129]

I think a lot of these people also search free advertisement whether they get an investment or not

[@behabtwa]

@@jimmyneutron129 in general that makes sense, but they dont come off well.

[@seasonedbeefs]

They've never seen a deal

[@i.canalista7718]

I loved how peter reacted. He put them in their place nicely

[@armitosmt5753]

How was that "nicely"? Lol 😂 he implied his 10 years is smarter than them

[@cwg73160]

@@armitosmt5753 Do you seriously not see how “nicely” is being used in this context?

[@futhamucka]

@@armitosmt5753 it was "nice" though. They came in with a complete joke of an offer that basically highlighted that what they wanted was just a money bag to dip into without actually offering the investors any real incentive to get involved. It's the kind of Hubris that would have had them be laughed out of any closed doors meeting. He did a good job of letting them know how offensive the offer was without getting very angry, and gave them some valuable advice that may allow them to adjust their strategy.

[@liddybug8311]

Peter's eyes light up whenever he spots a problem and knows he's about to destroy someone and drama is about to go down. You can tell he lives for the drama 🤣🤣

[@ns1crr]

"We can't change the company structure. It is how it is." -- Well you should be able to if you own the company! Braci has existed for 7 years - these two must know this pitch was completely naive.

[@annettesjoy]

If they truly wanted a deal, they would have reconsidered what they were offering and negotiate a deal.

[@davidmellish3295]

They didn't have to change the company structure though,they could have asked for investment in the Danish company, why do they have to change anything? Typical case of not listening to what was said by the dragons

[@waffle_chair9269]

They are better to walk away. Why should they change anything? If the offer was viable to get a good return, that’s all that mattered. Jones just wanted the holding company so his other tech companies could take advantage. Naïveté to believe yay have to do what the vampires want.

[@beeble2003]

They probably already have investors in Denmark whose stock can't be diluted.

[@Jssodk83939]

I am always worried that they will stop posting because there will be no more of it.

[@xA.K007x]

The guy with the beard came in all smiles then after that expressless face

[@MasterJTLS]

The fact after all that critism they stand there and one of them says they will have no regrets and the dragons don't get the structure shows they weren't listening at all and only think about themselves at all times. You want someone else's money you can't pitch why it's great for you.

[@MusicalMemeology]

The idiots thought they were getting free publicity but instead they lost a big chance to have someone like Peter potentially onboard. I actually don’t think the tech was that amazing anyway to even get an investment from him with the right structure.

[@Lyle-xc9pg]

Thats not even their tech, theyre just sales men

[@Sozzled-Hag]

I'm glad this video has subtitles

[@Dragonblaster1]

I didn't have any difficulty in understanding either of the entrepreneurs.

[@gheezer]

You need hearing aids love

[@Makesyouquestion]

@@gheezer agreed. Need some hearing aids Sarah!

[@Albimar17]

@@gheezer keep that aids to yourself bro :)

[@Albimar17]

@@Dragonblaster1 but we had difficulty understanding *both* of the entrepreneur-wannabies :)

[@chreezy24]

"They're absolutely bonkers" in Veruca Salt's voice

[@jaaameees]

8:26 did anyone else laugh as hard as me at Nicks noise 😂😂

[@robh2595]

@Bitterman i think it souned like a investgasm . he probably jizzed pound coins in his pants

[@hungryrefrigerator5784]

@@robh2595 Nick couldn’t handle the opportunity.

[@robertozambon73]

I miss Nick, best dragon

[@uzijn]

I thought it was Deborah!

[@jbiz6626]

No

[@Iburn247]

They've had this for at least 20 years. I got hearing aids when I was about 12 or 13 and they had all this stuff minus the smart phone part. But they had the system that alerted doorbells and phone calls visibly and connected to the TV and landline so the tv or phone flashed

[@leenobody3249]

Even longer.My neighbour had a system that dimmed the house lights when the doorbell went off way back in the 70s

[@sirplantain]

@@leenobody3249 Are you sure that wasn't just dodgy wiring? :P

[@WaniZame]

Yeah makes no sense especially how Alexa has evolved. I can do all this just through my default hearing aid software.

[@michaelcleary7065]

​@@sirplantain😂😂

[@dodgyviper1496]

10:49 "I do some work with hearing dogs for the dead" 😳

[@strebornayr]

There it is! I knew I heard that!

[@maninacave]

Thats what I heard too! 😂

[@LunarFlame455]

I'm not a business person, im in business clubs in highschool and just that is enough to know that investers want to invest in the parent company not a distributor

[@colinjava8447]

Hardly groundbreaking technology.

[@xA.K007x]

All smiles at the start and then they both got turned into hog roasts 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@S7EVE_P]

None of this stuff is new. I've been installing Hikvision for years who have a vast range of products that can all be controlled under 1 app and who are huge!

[@mrm5183]

“I pee less” Sounds like prostate problems

[@deenbookpro]

Hahaha nice!

[@ForestKicks]

If Deborah and Nick were making love it would sound like 8:26 - 8:29

[@scopegaming8857]

This comment hahaha

[@jimmybaldwin737]

😂😂😂 I just fast forwarded to your comment and back to the beginning

[@firstnamelastname-oy7es]

Poor Nick. She always rushes

[@GoldenLeafsMovies]

The fact that they were off screen makes it better.

[@ibrahimrwaished1113]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 dead

[@Binyamin1444]

8:26 loool the sound

[@TheAxeliono]

LOL. The funniest part was that there was basically no response from anyone about it

[@netweed09]

and ''that's nice'' just afterwards perfectly timed, lol!

[@RGBNathan]

Just realised as well - they went all about the sound device, but not the patents the uk division is working on at all. I get they're just looking for distribution of the former, but to me it was very disingenuous not to talk about the latter as well

[@xA.K007x]

They came in all smiles and singing then destroyed 😂😂😂😂

[@xA.K007x]

The sweat coming of them both 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@erhhsdhh2099]

Peter Jones is an absolute assassin 🔥 Another example of him asking the right questions and cutting right to the chase

[@MarxistKnight]

I love that they think a deaf person will be sat at home with a standard door bell.

[@pboytrif1]

I love hearing the post pitch nonesense where the guys pitching clearly didn’t learn a thing

[@mrgoober8805]

"I'm not a mug" Is the greatest line ever!

[@BenjaminGoose]

He's a cup.

[@ainsleyharriott2209]

Rookie mistake they should have setup a holding company for the holding company to make things easier to understand

[@vids2002]

They stuck to their guns, even after being called out lol. They really, even as they walked out, acted like they weren't looking just for a cash injection on the distribution side lol smh

[@Neags]

also, there's actually nothing stopping them later down the line from the parent company reforming to become a distributor / developer hybrid and essentially dissolving the subsidiary company and the dragon would be screwed over.

[@SilverMist0121]

8:26 nick shoots hes load

[@ULTIMATEUNITED2000]

😂😂💦💦

[@SilverMist0121]

@@ULTIMATEUNITED2000 🤣

[@thealien_ali3382]

I wish it was my mouth ngl

[@RESISTANCE..3]

Peter raiseing valid points yet again

[@xA.K007x]

The guy in blue shirt is funny while the beard guy looks dead😂😂😂😂😂

[@thesilenthero422]

This is why Peter has been the longest lasting dragon

[@liddybug8311]

You can see his eyes light up when he spots a problem and knows some drama is about to go down 🤣🤣

[@AndreNascimento-dt5fm]

Peters face every time when someone enters the den and starts speaking 🤣🤣🤣

[@ameen348]

These two are absolute amateurs in business

[@remchaill9898]

"I do some work with hearing dogs FOR THE DEAD" - Deborah Meaden. hahahaha 10:49

[@Liam-ml2rq]

For the deaf*

[@stormchild831]

@@Liam-ml2rq You didn't get the joke... listen, again, to how she says it !

[@techwiz81]

Any time someone offers investment in a distribution company, the dragons are immediately out. How do people not get it

[@sanatan0990]

2:18 That smartwatch, tho?? I love vintage tech shows. 😂😂😂

[@liamkelly1553]

its a pebble steel, the company no longer exists. Great watches they were.

[@iancampbell9297]

I would rather have Toulkers gold rolex

[@jarednil69]

Basically they offered a "franchise" opportunity. But the Dragon's didn't want that, and they said it multiple times over.🙄

[@jf1341]

They came for the free advertisement to attract VCs. They clearly knew what they were doing; playing dumb shows how smart they are.

[@peterinfamilyguy]

8:26 what the hell was that nick

[@SilverMist0121]

🤣🤣🤣 shot his load

[@NUFC_1]

Debra put her hand in his pants

[@MrMarko4]

Probably the most catastrophically unsuccessful pitch I’ve seen in the den

[@michaelh9649]

I don’t think I’ve seen one rejected quite as fast or efficiently as this

[@cuttlefisch]

The "Traffic flow" signals company was probably the worst ever, just ahead of the debacle pitch over Brian's figures.

[@erhhsdhh2099]

The traffic flow signal thing was never going to work. I think this is more unsuccessful because you had two tech entrepreneurs with a decent idea, and they shot themselves in the foot. If they were offering part of the holding company, they might have gotten an investment

[@Mike-jl2kp]

Im only 4 minutes in and the deal is terrible. A share of the distribution rights in 1 country, of a product they don't own

[@RGBNathan]

They do own it - in a completely separate holding company though.

[@cjj6412]

@@RGBNathan The other issue is it's a fairly dumb idea. The kid who was doing all the talking was banking on his pedigree but what they have built is easily replicable and cannot be patented.. It uses an always on microphone with a python package on the backend to identify the sound. Most computer engineering graduates would be able to give you a functional prototype within a week.

[@RGBNathan]

@@cjj6412 agreed - not that hard to implement at all. Was merely addressing the misconception is all ^^

[@thealien_ali3382]

I like ponies

[@inconspicuousname2925]

Essentially asking multimillionaires to sell their stocks in the uk😂

[@brauntough9088]

Products like this are all over the Globe.. Next..

[@HIOP0]

Peter must give up his spot for you, NOW.

[@jonskitch8082]

Peter - why should I invest on an agent? I want to be part of a holding company!!!my 10 year old would decline that.

[@Beanie1984]

Peter is 100% right. Distribution network

[@JonasHamill]

How to lose a pitch in 3 words. 'UK distribution rights'. Honestly it even gets boring. Too often people come in, pitch that and then the rest of the pitch is just the dragons, rightfully so, being like 'why on earth would I do this?'

[@tamikagreen1119]

Do people not watch this show? An investment in a distribution company or part of the company never goes down well in the den! Why don't people learn?!

[@kl0vi]

I absolutely love when Deborah wears red! She stands out so nicely

[@vigorousveloceraptor]

iPhones have this now as alerts you can set lol.

[@gamalyelg]

It’s ridiculous how the guy didn’t own his mistake and blame the dragons… dude, they’re the ones with hundreds of business and billions of dollars. Please, just be humble and admit it.

[@star_wars_fan184]

This is a tech company Peter: “and I took that personally”

[@bambieyedgirl7846]

Every time 🤣😂😂😂

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Maybe I missed it or maybe it was edited out but nowhere did I hear from these 2 that they had any sort of ownership rights in the original company or the original ip.

[@tonydarcy7475]

They owned it in another company, but it wasn’t a part of this deal.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

@@tonydarcy7475 Yes, I got that part only when Peter said so. These guys didn't say anything about "owning" the Denmark company or maybe that was edited out.

[@HaggardPillockHD]

Good point

[@beeble2003]

I infer that they own the Danish company. If they didn't, they'd surely just say that it wasn't theirs to offer when they were asked about investing in it.

[@sbaxter4207]

At times, the music is too loud! it is annoying.

[@achimedia9322]

This are not entrepreneurs this are inventors. The two are different

[@JoshBearne]

Whats the update on the company? Is it still going?

[@jevdawg]

They are still running, but they are selling farts in a bottle as burglary deterrents.

[@Beanie1984]

doubt it, Apple already do this. If they even attempt to sneeze apple will blow them to smithereens.

[@ifwecouldvote]

Made 2.3 million in the first year, but blew it all investing in Jessops.

[@beeble2003]

@@Beanie1984 But were Apple doing this in 2015/16 when this episode was broadcast?

[@TheJohnCooperShow]

Sarah “ill just paraphrase Debra and peter” willingham Peter “I’m a near billionaire but I’ll always mention I own jessops” Jones

[@CrookedOakPacks]

All this show does is raise Peters blood pressure

[@sadikmeah4057]

Greed is the antithesis of growth

[@erhhsdhh2099]

I think they tried to slide it under the radar, and some part of them knew someone would ask them about it. They didn’t look that surprised or disappointed

[@vibovitold]

What really surprises me is that they seemingly didn't anticipate it at all. Even someone whose entire expertise is solely based on watching some Dragon's Den episodes could have easily foreseen this exact outcome.

[@heiko3169]

Well ...either they both are totally dumb and clueless ... OR ... they just wanted the TV appearance for their product.

[@Truth_seeker_24]

No actually before they came in they mentioned that only issue could be company structure.

[@beeble2003]

@@Truth_seeker_24 Right, but the only issue they saw was that it's complex. That's wrong on two counts -- first, it's not complex at all; second, the "complexity" isn't the issue.

[@larjkok1184]

I’ve rewatched the introduction 5 times, and for the life of me I cannot decipher your names, so for that reason I’m out.

[@hansiesma16]

The sidekick is so busy blotting his dripping forehead that he forgot to say anything.

[@Brickcellent]

I'd love to see you handling pressure in there.

[@hansiesma16]

@@Brickcellent Don't hold your breath 😉

[@dmail00]

It is true to say he did not speak in the edited version.

[@barteatmyshorts8252]

after Peter open mouth every one will be quite

[@drpk6514]

He was not good at English. And BTW he talked too if you missed that part.

[@pratishdwivedi4260]

Apple has already integrated such a feature in IOS

[@beeble2003]

But did it have it in 2015/16, when this was broadcast?

[@mythicalmoose2995]

Dude got a scar on his cheek from the last bloke he tried to screw with that deal

[@KaningLamigin]

The other guy looks like he ran a shaver across his left beard and changed his mind right after

[@vader745]

they got a well deserved roasting! Wow clueless! 🤦‍♂️

[@robertkustos2931]

It's like investing in Ferrari , but you only get the washer bottle

[@beeble2003]

No, it's like telling someone they'll be investing in Ferrari, but all you're offering is a dealership.

[@eduard6969]

8:54 Peter's humbleness in action

[@dardo1201]

😭😂 I hadn’t gotten to that part yet and you got me thinking “what, Peter becoming humble would be an odd twist 😅”

[@erhhsdhh2099]

Maybe it is a bit cocky, but he built his business empire. Can’t knock that.

[@nealhocking]

10:49 - "I do some work with hearing dogs for the dead"??

[@tamianyoganathan4383]

Exactly what I heard too...had me so confused. Im glad someone else heard it too otherwise I wouldve went mad lol

[@HIOP0]

"Sounds" like you need their services, NOW.

[@lovejoy3347]

Ming the Merciless was like a ghost

[@aps-pictures9335]

10:52 ‘hearing dogs for the dead’ lol

[@garyandrewranford]

And that my dear friends is how NOT to attract an investment from a well versed Dragon ...

[@khansahib7110]

Look on sarahs face at 7:00.. 🔥🔥

[@BDogs10]

don’t ever offer PJ: ‘Police sirons & horns’ 😂

[@ShopSongs]

So they came in just finding someone to work as their UK based salesperson, and have the audacity to ask the dragons to give THEM money to get the job 😂 why not just offer a small percentage of the holding company so they can get the dragon on board, penetrate the UK market, use the dragons expertise for the global market, everyone's happy

[@cjj6412]

Because dad's money got them this far..... why start providing value now?

[@Albimar17]

YUP, dragons never seem to fall for one of those uk sub-company distribution-only type of deals. But product seemed nice and helpful and if only they offered a piece of the parent company, they would have got some offers on the table.

[@gmwdim]

Too greedy. They want an investor to give them money to help get the product into the market, but don't want to give away any ownership in the actually valuable part.

[@drpk6514]

Whats the problem in investing in an exclusive sales investment which pays back the investment in 2 years??

[@cwg73160]

You regurgitated everything from the video. Good for you.

[@lasura]

Does Denmark have good Research & Development reliefs? Because, if not, they've also missed out on a great relief in the UK...

[@RockyDave]

'Fire-breathing dragons and two silly guys sweating profusely.'

[@Albimar17]

They surely felt the heat... of straight outta oven... Pizza Jones!

[@thealien_ali3382]

Peter Jones ripped them a new one 🤣

[@MetalFan10101]

Interesting concept. I did however over estimate the functionality of the product. I was expecting it to "hear" different sounds in the room in realtime and visualize them. There is very little which sets them apart from other products like the Ring doorbell and hive etc. For that reason, I'm out.

[@xA.K007x]

They are sweating buckets 😂😂😂😂

[@SpencerLecroix-et5xg]

Having smaller share in something big better than having major shares in something small, Peter will definitely could have been the one make them go globally, he have the connection, reputation to make them become very successful. They didnt do thier homework

[@ondank]

"we can't change the company structure" BRO YOU MADE IT. Where did you mess this up so badly that you can't change it now?!

[@m77ast]

If the U.K. could be the bigger picture then give them Denmark and you take the gamble. These guys are weird. 😃😃😃

[@PrinceKima_12]

"We have a second company". Peter:😠😡🤬

[@jarnevanbec2886]

In propositions like this I would ask them for numbers until they themselves come to the conclusion their proposal makes no sense for any investor