IRON HANDS: THE FLESH IS WEAK! | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@thedivinekahuna298]

One thing I saw was that summarized Legions differently; the Salamanders would save women and children first because it’s the right thing to do. The Iron Hands would save women and children first because they could fit more of them in a Thunder hawk at a time.

[@Bluecho4]

This assumes the Iron Hands would waste space on their Thunder Hawks saving civilians. If said civilians weren't weak, they'd save themselves.

[@velphidrow]

Lmao no they wouldn't The iron hands would ditch ass civilians while firing their bolters at the enemy and getting upsets the civilians are dying snd making them waste ammo

[@Roark787]

@@Bluecho4 I figured if anything the Iron Hands would purposely set an evacuation sight in a spot where the only route to it is super fucking dangerous and only allow those who can cross it without aid to be evacuated just so they can root out the weak among the population.

[@mitemaximus831]

​@@Roark787 Iron Hands would set up a series of evac zones close to the front lines, in a pattern to draw their enemy into their firing lines. Any civilians that make it out are a bonus

[@jeambeam3173]

​@@Roark787 there like now you few survivors are going to become neofites (can't remember how to spell lol) or you will be made into servitors. It's is what is most efficient

[@vancodling4223]

Fun fact: Konrad kept Ferrus' head, and kept trying to get improsoned Vulcan to have dinner with it - before stabbing Vulcan to death with table cutlery.. for the third time

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

Another fun fact. Somehow, Guilliman and Dorn got a hold on Ferrus's skull and used it as leverage to get the Iron Hands to agree to the Codex Astartes

[@benneeds_a_name7398]

Ooh irony! If they really wanted to being back this primarch, mech Ferris cobbled together bits of his body but mostly machine, an iron husk of a man

[@B1gCh33sy]

There's already a short story about Ferrus finding some 40k Iron Hands lost in the warp due to timey wimey fuckery and he was thoroughly disgusted at the state of their augmentations.

[@evinbraley]

Where is this story? sounds interesting

[@B1gCh33sy]

@@evinbraley A Lesson in Iron by David Guymer

[@xluispx4477]

Wasn't Ferrus in like a jar with Fulgrim telling him to join Chaos? which is kinda scary to think of because the last I thing I would like is being in a jar owned by Fulgrim

[@benhemsworth8555]

Doesn’t it say at one point “their crude augmentations reminded him of greenskin work”?

[@bricewisener5970]

Imagine a face off between the night lords and the iron hands in which both sides are convinced they cannot win, so they both just leave

[@DrazCo88]

In a Night Lords audio book called Massacre it actually has Night Lords from the 10th Company massacring (hence the name) a bunch of Iron Hands during the Horus Heresy.

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

@@DrazCo88 wait, would that be the same guys as in the Omnibus? Do we see heresy era Talos in that? Malek? Malcharion? Sergeant Uzas?? I require an answer!

[@DrazCo88]

@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN Correct! The story even has a pre-demon possessed Captain Vandred in it AND Ruven.

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

@@DrazCo88 Welp. Gotta get that one now...

[@DrazCo88]

@@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN WyvernAudio on KZbin does an entire audio narration of it. I'll link it as soon as I find it!

[@blurbles88]

The tragic irony of the Iron Hands is how they sorta forgot the point of their Primarch’s doctrine. “The flesh is weak, but deeds last forever.” In purging their human weakness, they gave up their human potential to achieve greatness in the face of overwhelming despair.

[@velphidrow]

Tbf Iron Father Fairos seems to be understanding it

[@Notbatman374]

Also tbf, ferrus never said "deeds last forever" and it's not technically part of their doctrine. It's a quote from a conversation between ferrus manus and Vulcan. To which ferrus tells Vulcan that the flesh is weak, and Vulcan responds with "but deeds endure" This is more of a saying then doctrine. You see them use it more when iron hands and Salamanders interact then anywhere else.

[@blurbles88]

@@Notbatman374 ah thanks for clarifying! Seems my lore memories did that thing in your brain where two bits mix…

[@Notbatman374]

@blurbles88 lol only because I had just read the shattered legions book where they discuss this exact phrase like a week before that comment is the only reason I knew 😅

[@ladeandix7451]

One piece of Iron Hands art I love is a marine dual wielding fully automatic bolters. And a huge terminator slicing a daemonette in half with a big power sword while shooting it with a storm bolter.

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

The latter seems to be the cover art of Wrath of Iron, one of the few true Iron Hands novels. It is pretty dope.

[@henrywhitmore8344]

Isn’t he also wearing like splinter cell nightvision lenses in front of his helmet 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@ladeandix7451]

@@henrywhitmore8344 yes. Red lenses glaring as he mag dumps his bolters at whatever unfortunate thing he is shooting at.

[@ShotGunner5609]

That is literally and figuratively very metal!

[@thomassmart4227]

True Grit was a cool rule

[@thok54]

Imperium: Spends millions on creating biologically perfect human warriors Iron hands: Thanks for the surgery, now turn me into a robot

[@ArtificialDragon]

Your getting paid?

[@crybirb]

Yeah I had a question about that, can't just a normal person be transformed in a robot? Does it need to be a marine?

[@mateusfelipecardoso40kview3]

​@@crybirb like a krieg veteran or a skitari?

[@GamerGrovyle]

*Admech Techpriest:* I love these guys!

[@Naturiel]

Slaanesh has the Emperor's Children, Khorne has the World Eaters, Nurgle has the Death Guard, Tzeentch has the Thousand Sons and Vashtorr got the Iron Hands 😘

[@markgresch9944]

55:55 - I thought there was some part near the end of their lore, where Slannesh notices their spirally depression and is like "Excess sadness is still excess, and basically the more they tried to suppress their emotions, the further they fell and that one of their leaders basically said "Enough, we're human we need to feel, we need our anger and our souls." and saved their chapter.

[@MrPenfold666]

Yes it's the war with the Sapphire King a greater daemon that was born from the melancholy of Fulgrim when he killed Ferrus IIRC it hounded the chapter for 10 thousand years

[@davisdf3064]

And then they start to feel excessive emotions and then they fell to Slaanesh

[@pifilixxiv3192]

​@@davisdf3064won't lie kinda like the idea of slaneesh fallen iron hands who are just depresso

[@davisdf3064]

@@pifilixxiv3192 They are so depressed, they have a depressive area of effect where everyone loses any motivation to do anything.

[@khylerbane4523]

I can’t believe that they didn’t go into or even mention the current chapter master, Kardan Stronos. He’s the one Iron Hand that not only represents the best of the the Iron Hands, but is actively trying to get the chapter to be more in line with what Ferrus wanted and believed( *“Activity Trying”* being the key words).

[@YoBen100]

"Tis but a scratch and just a flesh wound." proceed to replace all his lost limbs with mechanical body parts and return to battle few hours later.

[@SolvietSoundtrack115]

cant get a flesh wound if you have no flesh ( *big brain* )

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

"The Iron Hands are human, lord general. Perhaps they do not like to think of themselves in quite that way any more, but they are, and they share in the full range of blessings and curses of that exalted state. One condition in particular is theirs: an ancient condition which even now, with all the techno-chirurgical advances available in our glorious Imperium, resists any attempts at a cure. [...] We take ordinary bodies and make them better,’ she admitted. ‘We do so because we desire to improve on what we were born with. The Iron Hands cannot make their bodies better, since they are already perfect. Nevertheless, still they amputate their limbs in favour of metal parts and aspire to the state of machine-hood. Why? Because they fear their flesh, lord general. They look at it in the mirror of their minds and they see something loathsome." Techpriest Ys regarding the Iron Hands, Wrath of Iron

[@fallentitan9811]

Little sad that the Man of Iron pretending to be a Iron Hands Dreadnaught wasn’t brought up. I think that’s a so hilarious.

[@ogliara6473]

Please elaborate

[@fallentitan9811]

@@ogliara6473 It was just a short story and I can’t remember the name, but at the end of it the main character of it, an Inquisitor, saw that a Dreadnaught had a gaping hole in it where the Astartes coffin should be after a battle, in which case the Dreadnaught apologized and that the Inquisitor shouldn’t have seen him so metal tendrils erupt from inside the Dreadnaught and drag the Inquisitor inside of it.

[@henrypaleveda7760]

A robot pretending to be a man hiding in the ranks of men striving to be machines?

[@fallentitan9811]

@@henrypaleveda7760 And now you get why it’s hilarious.

[@blakeriley8546]

​@@SWProductions100 it's been 8,297 days and they still havent noticed me

[@IdioticSynergy]

Tonite on Ridiculous Gear: Bricky replaces his fleshy forehead with an augmented forehead so that it can provide central heating to his brain and to the Ridiculous Gear crew, DK gets all flustered when Iron Daddy Feirros begins his Femboy arc and Shy removes her vocal cords and replaces it with the Iron Hand themed soundboard so she can talk exclusively in dank memes

[@cultistofdarkness1661]

Amazing, one of the best ones yet, definitely top 5

[@IdioticSynergy]

@@cultistofdarkness1661 Cheers mate

[@matthewsplichal4434]

I never get tired of these, thanks for all the laughs

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

lol Feirros wasn't even mentioned

[@theslinker5342]

Amazing quote, outstanding

[@Bluecho4]

Disappointed there was no mention of the Keys of Hel. The Iron Hands's use of techno-necromancy is kind of relevant. Anyway, I find the Iron Hands compelling for the degree to which they've responded to their trauma in very unhealthy ways. They were unequipped to handle grief they, as living weapons, were never meant to deal with. They cut away their humanity, because they couldn't stand the pain of being human. They embrace the idea of stoicism - of being purely logical - to deny they feel anything. They refuse to enter battles that aren't overwhelmingly in their favor, under the pretense of it being logical, but in actuality because they're terrified of being hurt again. They reject trust, so they can never again be betrayed. Beneath the veneer of cold steel, the Iron Hands are frail, sobbing children.

[@B1gCh33sy]

If the Raven Guard are poetry reading emos who stare out the window on a rainy day, then the Iron Hands are the kids from a broken family on the wrong side of the tracks that shoot heroin at abandoned steel mills and take out their anger by beating on old junk cars.

[@ShadowGhost0117]

I felt the same way when they didn’t mention any of the Dark Age goodies that the Dark Angels were given (Excindio Battle Automota which were lobotomized Men of Iron, singularity drives, weapons that literally remove you from existence to the point that you never even existed).

[@uselesspocketwatch]

All Space Marines are traumatized, brainwashed children. They don't recruit adults.

[@ashe274]

Ferrus “Iron Hand” Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands, aboard his capital ship the Fist of Iron, also made a flaming sword that he named… Fireblade.

[@mrjoe332]

If your native language is from the romantic family, every Warhammer 40K character name is insulting.

[@Valsorayu]

@@mrjoe332 Trazyn the Infinite.

[@TheCubicDwarf]

This is my hammer, i liked it so much I named it: "Hammer"

[@Become-Eggplant]

I feel like lord Adorable and Ferrus share a same braincell when naming things.

[@42ndguardian]

​@@Become-EggplantStorm's Teeth would like a word with you

[@thefloridaman41]

Iron Hands and Blood Angels talking about depression. Raven Guard: Hold my cigarette and black coffee. I’m gonna write a poem

[@ethanr3480]

The iron hands actually fought in the heresy to some effect, such as destroying world eater recruitment drives and I think wounding a primarch, they did this in attack cells of just iron hands such as the red talon or in multi legion groups called the shattered legions which included raven guard and salamanders led by figures like Shadrak Meduson, one cell included ebon kheshig of the white scars. Their cybernetics do have benefits such as a third heart just in case the two are destroyed. The morlocks were Ferrus Manus’ terminator body guard, they all died out or got absorbed at the end of the heresy, and the gorgon terminators were the prototype armor that manus was working on that required the implantation of the marine into the armor, there is a special terminator in 40k called the helfather who are the iron councils bodyguards which might just be space marines transferred into a machine body’s because they have had their heads disintegrated and continued fighting and a librarian remarked that they have no presence

[@ethanr3480]

Also they have been getting better psychologically under Kardan Stronos. In the heresy it appears they had used almost necron esq technology that repaired vehicles like living metal, and they had tech for vehicles that absorbed the essence of enemies to heal and unnerved allies and foes near it

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

@@ethanr3480 The fact that neither a character nor the weird techno-shit they guard were mentioned is pretty sad to me, but hey, at least the Xth was covered at all

[@ethanr3480]

@@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN to be fair not even gw cares about the iron hands characters, heresy removed their only characters and put them into legacy rules and completed deleted one from existence. Then 40k only has ferros who is a recent addition when chapter master stronos has been around for over a decade

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

@@ethanr3480 ... yeah

[@consolescrub4031]

If we're being technical I believe it was a Raven Guard who wounded the primarch if we're referring to sniping Fulgrim in the eye although I believe they effectively made him an honorary Iron Hands for this (they did also use some shenanigans to get Perturabo off their ship which is an achievement). He was part of a buddy cop team with Shadrak for a long time which was entertaining as they would sneak in the Raven Guard way before detonating *all* the explosives as they leave and boosting out in a modified transport Iron Hands style.

[@justinkyp]

it almost feels like the iron hands avoid weakness rather than face it, whereas ferrus would want them to overcome being weak by strengthening themselves mentally and physically, ferrus' death and the whole 'iron hands being represented by the stages of grief' led to the misinterpreting ferrus' lessons and remove what they see as weak instead of making it stronger

[@I_am_ENSanity]

Doctor told me I'll need a shoulder replacement in a few years and most likely have to have both my knees replaced by 45. I laughed, lowered my head, and mumbled "Iron within..." to which he said "Iron without". I couldn't help but start laughing.

[@nedcurfman3486]

THE KNEES ARE WEAK

[@Ofley_Adventures]

Yes! Yes! A million times yes! It is magnificent to see you guys checking the Iron Tenth. Many believe them simple, yet in my opinion are the most grim dark legion in 40k. Have a glorious day everyone! Thanks for the vid.

[@MrPenfold666]

my favourite lore tidbit was when they deployed to deal with an Ork WAAAGH they secured the manufactorums, determined they had enough recourses to deal with the Orks but noticed a raven guard force surrounded by the WAAAGH and simply watched, and they only opened fire the second the final raven guard marine died

[@erwinthedodo9205]

Yeah the iron hands literally mutilate themselves to feel closer to their father, shits grimdark af

[@cigar_goblin4849]

*night lords*

[@adammotter]

Remember for the War Within The Webway the emperor summons the spirits of dead loyalists to fight, which includes Ferrus Manus. Also in the short story The Board Is Set, when the piece that represents Ferrus falls and the head breaks off the emperor replies it was careless and he'd have to fix that when he has time. Couple big doors GW is leaving open...

[@jeffersonhenrichs3362]

Dude ferrus led the drop site attack over two other loyalist legions, he waited till reinforcements were in system and inbound, he didnt know they had flipped and now were surrounded. Ferrus had plans for almost anything, when somebody met his requirements, hed get the pre designated paddle and go hard af on them

[@eduardodiaz9942]

The Iron Hands: For those times when being an 3 and a half meters tall superhuman with an extra lung, an extra heart, closed solid ribcage and covered head to toe in ceramite power armor is not enough.

[@eduardodiaz9942]

@Trobbins1992 Well, if you're more machine than meaty fleshbag, you SHOULD be tougher. That's kinda the point.

[@zenerboi3580]

I'm surprised Bricky did not talk about the Sapphire King. The Iron Hands were being manipulated by chaos there for a bit.

[@chaosXP3RT]

At first I really didn't understand the Iron Hands because they seemed like Space Marine Ad Mech, but after listening to Bricky explain them and Ferrus Manus, they make so much more sense. And they're actually kind sad. While the Mechanicus wants to improve their flesh, the Iron Hands are afraid their flesh won't be enough. Ferrus Manus's whole mantra was strength. And yet, he still wasn't strong enough to keep himself from dying. Imagine your father or mentor, the strongest, most courageous, most hard-working person you've always known. They scare away all the monsters, keeo you safe and guide you through life. With them, nobody could ever hurt you or lead you astray. But then one day, the most evil person you ever met, overpowered your father/mentor and killed them. Imagine what that would do to your head. The Irons Fists are very well aware of their humanity, they're terrified of it. Not just their flesh, but the emotions that come with it. Believing their humanity has doomed them. While the Iron Warriors believe they will always be the strongest, the Iron Hands fear they will never be strong enough.

[@vegladex]

Here's an idea: Bring back Ferrus, let him have the character development he deserves, but *keep him away from the Iron Hands.* The Cicatrix Maledictum is a convenient way to do this. You could even then play with different groups of Iron Hands knowing different amounts about how he's back. I like the idea of one group getting 100% irrefutable evidence that he's back and refusing to believe it, another group getting rough, unclear, ambiguous evidence and being divided and uncertain, and then another group being nearby, hearing nothing at all (or maybe seeing something reinforcing that he's *dead* ) and continuing to cling to their belief that he's still alive anyway.

[@Notbatman374]

Still rooting for vashtorr to make the universes most dangerous helbrute by putting ferrus manus into a dreadnought.

[@davisdf3064]

And even if Ferrus does come back, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has to be their Primarch again, seeing how distorted they became, i wouldn't doubt that he would abandon then.

[@Fordo007]

Honestly having Ferrus as just a head someone carries around and he see's the state of the galaxy and is powerless to do anything as he's just a head and he has to learn to deal with that and not having any strength or power anymore and to find value in what he can do... could honestly be a pretty great story. Or at the very least he gets put in the museum with Clonegrim with Clonegrim holding his head like Hamlet. If Gulliman and the Lion have showed us anything... it's that the personalities and philosophies and things that Primarchs had in the Great Crusade... can adapt and change a lot in 40K. Any Primarch that comes back I imagine will be examining their lives and trying to deconstruct themselves and build themselves back up.

[@jerryharris7606]

You totally skipped the main reason why the imperial guard hate them due to the fact that on multiple occasions have used them as bait so they take less losses

[@jogl.8595]

Interesting fact, while Iron Hands and Salamanders don't get along. Their dads did. Manus had great respect for Vulkan as a craftsman. A Dagar Vulkan crafted for Manus, later saved his life against a demon. And while Manus at first sight criticized Vulkans Dagar, being to small and to ornate. He treasured it and always carried it with him. Always regretting not being abel to tell Vulkan how much it meant to him. Especially after it saved his life. Manus was not a feelings person and he quietly regretted that. Because he critizied Vulkan and his other brothers for their emotions yet admired them for them in secret. A certain hypocrisy he was aware of.

[@FBI_Metal_Slime]

Wish they could have talked on iron daddy feirros. One of the few exceptions to the iron hands being purely logical, he strikes a balance between emotion and logic primarily through his dry, grim sense of humor that constantly gets on the nerves of his fellow iron hands astartes. Only reason he has yet to get kicked out is because he's damn good at his job, so they can't even call him weak for it. It's a very interesting dichotomy and example of how the iron hands philosophy isn't always correct, which leans further into the Iron Hands chapter's denial and and insecurities.

[@nietsmmar5]

Fabius Bile created hundreds of 1 to 1 clones of Ferrus Manus for Fulgrim to try and convert to chaos. But all the Ferrus Manus clones refused and was killed by Fulgrim. So if Ferrus Manus was ever to come back, it would probably be an escaped clone. Bile also sold a pre demon prince Fulgrim clone to Trazyn.

[@Lyki27]

The Iron Hands clans being the stages of grief is also fun an interesting, as you run into the issue of "If Space Marines know no fear, can they truly make logical decisions?" Like, fear of action is a valid concern in the military, but you need to understand that in order to successfully plan actions.

[@Valsorayu]

I think the Iron Hands know fear very well.

[@vontheunknown7982]

The iron hands need more love than they're given.

[@SigmaForgeAlpha]

They get little love in the lore, so to compensate, they often break the game.

[@IronTalon013]

​​@@SigmaForgeAlpha Can you explain how? I know nothing about them on tabletop, as I run Orks, and everyone I have played against, does not use them or had not too many encounters.

[@Kobold1650]

Clan raukkan was pretty busted, super cool and nice as an iron hands fan, but not cool if you were on the other end of the table.

[@ethanvallance4989]

​@@IronTalon013they get not much lore and don't get explored enough as other chapters. In game for a while they were the strongest competitive army for space marines that lead people to have other chaptered armies and just say they're iron hands for competitive reasons

[@Bluecho4]

They could definitely use a hug, that's for sure.

[@mickmontoya6975]

So the fire fighter comment from Bricky, there is an ongoing operational risk assessment that informs decisions made on any emergency event. The basic idea is "risk a lot to save a lot, risk little to save little" as a risk/reward evaluation. Properly using it, an incident command can efficiently use the resources at hand and effectively achieve the objectives at hand. It is a cold calculation for decision making to provide for the safety of everyone as time and different operations continue. Fire fighting is largely reactionary, meaning that the fire has been active for a time prior to arrival, though sprinkler systems, alarms, and public safety training have added to the life safety precautions and prevention. In a fully involved fire, by the time emergency services arrive, the conditions are so bad that survivability is pretty low. Searches are made where possible and information is gathered to ascertain if someone needs rescuing. We will do whatever is possible to rescue someone in need, but conditions in a fire rapidly deteriorate and the reality is that smoke renders the environment deadly. The MGM Grand hotel fire in Las Vegas had fatalities caused by smoke inhalation for instance. So there is a level of emotional detachment that allows us to make a decision based on the facts. We want to save anyone we can, but not at the cost of our own lives for what may more likely be a recovery. There is also a limitation of our equipment, air tanks only last so long and the time is shortened by exertion. The air also has to last to get in, complete an objective, and get out. Big box stores are really bad for this for the distance and complexity of the layout, you just don't have enough air. On top of that, if a fire fighter goes down, trapped, and/or injured, then it can take multiple firefighters and cycles to get one firefighter out. Firefighters are passionate people, who like the Salamanders will make amazing efforts to save lives, but it's based in training, skill, risk evaluation, equipment, experience, and leadership. We will definitely push the boundaries of risk/reward to the edge, but too far and we are risking not going home to our families, having to risk our family unit of our crew to rescue us, and failing to achieve the rescue we started in the first place. The Salamander's compassion, courage, and dedication to duty of those in dire situations are certainly values we hold. The experience, understanding of Operational Risk Management, a level of emotional detachment, and leadership allows us to make the hard decisions to hold where the risk and reward don't balance. In wildland firefighting, evaluation of people's homes have to be made to decide if the resources to protect them is valid. There are many reasons why one home vs another can be protected, but it is a heavy weight to write off another's home, firefighters have had to watch their own homes burn from wildfires (Cerro Grande fire, Los Alamos, NM). This is where the cold reasoning comes into play, where the Iron Hands calculation of the facts at hand, where leadership and command has to restrain efforts so that tunnel vision, rash decisions, and high emotions don't snowball in a worse situation. These are decisions we can agonize over, but have to be made. These are very broad strokes that are painted in the ideal setting. Everyone has their own specific situation and personalities that exist, and comparisons to Space Marines is lol at best. The context for me is working in a volunteer fire service that was under manned like most volunteer services in general. We did a lot with less, and I do see a comparison of being stretched too thin in an environment of great need. 70% or so of the US nationwide fire departments are volunteers. Finding people to volunteer for such a demanding position as fire fighting, is increasingly more difficult, and in general the same is true for volunteer services of all kinds. Fuck wrote a book, sorry. Thanks Adeptus Ridiculous for the content. Helps lots on bad days.

[@GundMbH]

I was afraid of this episode, but now it is time: I officially like one loyal Space Marine Legion.

[@velphidrow]

We can change that or make you like them more They're unrepentantently evil. They'll gun down civilians who get in their way of attacking the enemy They've murdered and looted loyalists at least once and it's heavily implied they do it *often* as they have WAAAAAAAAY too many suits of Terminator armor. They're barely loyal to the imperium and put the Mars representative on their inner council before their head librarian and head Chaplin They use techno necromancy to force dead heros into terminator armor and throw them at enemies with no free will There was a huge schism over those who hated what the iron hands had become and now successors are split down the middle between and the og will let successors who disagreee die so they can take their stuff as they feel it's better used by them

[@saucevc8353]

@@velphidrow If they only likes one loyalist chapter it's fair to say they're a chaos player, so this stuff is most likely the reason they like them so much in the first place.

[@velphidrow]

@@saucevc8353 could be xenos

[@unwise_TW]

Prepare to get excited whenever they at the very least get mentioned once in a blue moon

[@Channel-23s]

They also were okay or accepted the Primaris quite well as they came from mars and I doubt they’d be mad at having more soldiers who have some upgrades/new quirks armor and weapons in hindsight they could be close to the Iron warriors with a couple things added or removed

[@bens1cultist405]

The iron hands feel like they would easily fall to Vashtorr.

[@thewerdna]

The things is, a bunch of them did fall to chaos already due to supressing their emotions and becoming too machinelike. Only instead of Vashtorr it was a demon known as the Saphire King. Said demon was actually created due to Ferrus' death, being born from his rage, the act of utter betrayal from Fulgrim, and the grief and horror of the Iron Hands. In the end the non corrupted Iron Hands, the ones who realized they needed to learn to control and master their emotions instead of denying them, won and the Iron Hands now have the smallest glimmer of hope of turning away from their self destructive path

[@Ahriman_362]

imagine if vashtorr is a corrupted ferrus manus @@thewerdna

[@stormrvss9873]

You feel… Remove that shark skin. Replace it with iron and faith.

[@LemanRussVanquisher]

In one of the only really good Iron Hands novels, Wrath of Iron, the company of IH that are trying to root out a demon invasion on a hive world literally use and entire army of Imperial Guard as a diversion. Just run them suicidally into a wall of enemies they couldn't possibly beat so the heretics would be focused on that and not them. When the IG general is like "bro, what the fuck?" The Iron Hands Captain is just like "we're more important than you, cry to a Salamander about it."

[@vincentprime740]

Like when they shoot a crying woman IG in half after she fought so hard to comeback alive as an example of "not efficient enough"

[@lordfrostwind3151]

I recall somewhere that the Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders worked together frequently during the Crusade, their legion doctrines making them quite a powerful combined arms force. Also they all didn't get along with Horus.

[@JacatackLP]

That was thanks to Shadrak Meduson, arguably the biggest chad of the Heresy, who managed to turn the SHattered Legions into a flexible guerilla fighting force and on multiple occasions almost succeeded in killing traitor primarchs, including Horus himself. I can't explain how he died without MASSIVE spoilers but if he had survived the Heresy the Iron Hands would be a VERY different chapter today.

[@nickotronick7725]

The funny thing you missed is that after Ferrus’ death, some Iron Hands went so mad with grief that they “Turned the Keys of Hel”. Essentially, over the course of the Great Crusade, they and Ferrus found tech that even Ferrus thought was too dangerous to play with. The big one was cybernetic resurrection, which straight up brought Iron Hands marines back from the dead with just advanced tech. Even the Iron Hands at the time were horrified by this but only considered it thanks to the madness of the Horus Heresy.

[@hugisdb]

Bricky: I didn’t mention toasters or shovels in the AdMec/Krieg episodes because overused memes. Also Bricky: *last two episodes*

[@chrisbudres1668]

How could you not talk about Iron Father Feirros? He is an interesting character, and his mini looks cool.

[@SumDude129]

45:22 Funny you mention that scenario because it happens in the short story The Calculs of Battle except the Iron Hands led by Iron Father Kardan Stronos drop down to hold off the swarm so more IG can get off world to fight another day

[@canyouwriteanythinghere]

One idea that I've seen regarding the return of Ferrus Manus is that his soul could come back and become the machine spirit of an Emperor Class Titan. And, like, it's really silly, and I don't know how exactly they'd do it, but I would fucking love to see it.

[@chrisc.5911]

An Iron Hands fleet is passing through a system on their way to retake a forge world a few systems over, when they notice a Night Lords fleet appearing out of the warp nearby. They both notice each other and scan the opposition in the hopes of gauging their own chances of winning, and both find that the Night Lords fleet is ever so slightly more well equipped. Both fleets then proceed to leave at the same time, as the Iron Hands have deemed there to be no chance of victory, and the Night Lords don't want to fight a battle that isn't decisively in their favor.

[@blockhead134]

There was a great audio drama I listened to where the Iron hands were fighting alongside militarum and pdf against nids. The whole thing was a command squad arguing with hq about their Battle Calculus and trying to push up success rates to acceptable limits, eventually seeing that loss was inevitable and pulling out. At first you are lead to believe they were performing a last stand, but at the end you realize they showed up at the start, fought for 15 minutes, realized they couldn't win, and left

[@henrypaleveda7760]

do you know the name of this?

[@blockhead134]

@@henrypaleveda7760 The Calculus of Battle. It's part of The Emperors Blade drama bundle

[@blockhead134]

@Henry Paleveda if you have an extra credit I would also suggest The Traitor and the Alien bundle, because The Prophets of WAAAGH!! Is some of the best ork content out there imo

[@LastoftheMofreakins]

Dude, I have never wanted to slap a tin-can more than that AdMech dude droning away... The Entire Time! Consistently batching whilst the Captain is like "Bro, I know we can't win but I gotta try to provide some form of assisst, we won't take too big of a risk." But that AdMech bastard just kept ticking away like one of those stupid mission timers from the old GTA games.

[@c0rn651]

i think i can sum up the irons hands and salamanders beef pretty well *ahem* Salamanders: “Good game friends, though we lose this round we will surely improve in time” Iron hands: “KYS”

[@Madjo-qj2ge]

Flesh is Weak But Deed Endure - i think Vulkan to Ferrus Manus

[@velphidrow]

Correct. Its that phrase that made Ferrus realize he was just being a spiteful prick but would die before he could reflect more and change his legion

[@stormrvss9873]

Yes, Vulkan’s deed with an Eldar child will endure forever.

[@hmmyou2544]

Honestly, I want Ferrus to come back next in current 40k. Not because he's particularly my favourite, but to bring him back through the work of his psychotic children, barely a man anymore. Like, the Iron Hands go full "flesh is weak" on Ferrus and bring him back and he just fucking hates what they did to him, but nevertheless is alive so he might as well do something with that. My point is, all loyalist Primarchs that are brought back must have super depression.

[@vincentprime740]

Bringing manus back? As if the IH in 40k handnt kill enough civilians of their own imperium lol

[@Josco83]

As an Iron Hands enjoyer, I strongly recommend playing a game of Heresy with Ferrus. He's a beast. If/when he dies, instead of removing the model, just remove his magnetized head.

[@charlesa.7550]

"The Iron Hands suffered more than any other chapter". We'll just ignore the Thousand Sons who were loyalist and obliterated by another loyalist chapter. :D

[@SamueL-td7fb]

the difference is that Ferrus didn't deserve what happened to him and his legion

[@Krood-j7n]

​@@SamueL-td7fbyou're point?

[@grant5758]

My favourite chapter. No heroism, no mercy. The distilled brutality of 40k

[@ColdNorth0628]

Funny cause they are my least favorite. Borderline traitor and I think they are held as such. Bring ferrus back and make the hands MALD

[@eduardodiaz9942]

And no head

[@velphidrow]

​@Trobbins1992 oh no. The iron hands straight up aren't loyal to rhe imperium. Only Mars

[@velphidrow]

@Trobbins1992 they have 2 representatives of mars on their inner council but no librarian or Chaplin

[@velphidrow]

@Trobbins1992 afaik they do not sit on the iron council

[@terrysaunders7107]

The best thing is never having to buy an over priced character that you will never use.

[@thekillercow586]

12:20 Not to mention the blood angels still have the Sanguinor

[@Kennyselman]

Narratively... there is no therapy in England, only drinking and fighting your bros in bar fights. Therefore, you can't put it into a GW army as the undertone. Also, google definitions: Body Dysmorphia Disorder: A mental illness involving obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in appearance. May also be a specific body part perceived as mutilated or twisted. Dysphoria: state of generalized unhappiness, restlessness, dissatisfaction, or frustration, potentially related to multiple potential issues.

[@SamueL-td7fb]

I mean, both of them work for the IH in my opinion

[@ayyitsrith]

It feels ironic hearing DK say that the Iron Hands are interesting when the cold logic and bitterness strikes me as one-dimensional, yet individuals within the Chapter like Iron Father Feirros with his hot takes strike me as a cool lad in his pursuit of balancing logic and emotions whilst surrounded by TI calculators. That being said the aesthetic is ballin and I wish they were shown off more in books.

[@MrPenfold666]

they are interesting in the fact they are almost at war with themselves all the time, there was the Kristonian conclave that split the chapter in half and was basically a mini heresy for them, and then there was the sapphire king where their battle against a greater demon of slaanesh fed on their excessive need for logic and they only won when the entire chapter vented their rage and anger and embraced their emotions if you can find it pick up their 7th ed supplemnt Clan Raukaan and there's so much cool lore in there

[@Bluecho4]

I see it as the idea that their "cold logic" is a front, hiding deep wells of trauma and sadness. They aren't ACTUALLY any more logical. They simply use the pretense of logic to rationalize actions meant to protect themselves from being hurt again.

[@ayyitsrith]

@@Bluecho4 so their cold front and "logic" is just a coping method following Medusan tradition of "only the strong survive". i can kinda dig it; they're bitter about their primarch having died for nothing and sorta vent that grief towards everyone else.

[@ayyitsrith]

@@MrPenfold666 i vaguely recall reading their ordeal with the Sapphire King in the wiki when i got intrigued by Feirros' whole schtick when I thought about making an Iron Hands Devastator for a Deathwatch campaign. i'll definitely have to do a little digging, because it's a sort of character I'd like to try to tackle making in an rpg setting; sort of learning the value of emotions and the pitfalls of reliance on logic alone via coordinating with the Battle Brothers of his Kill-Team.

[@tomdamoose2461]

The iron hands do have some awesome little moments of lore when it comes to the heresy though. - The destruction of bodt - The attempted assassination of Fulgrim and Perturabo - The retrieval of the Magna Mata during the seige - constant guerrilla warfare against the traitors throughout the heresy The legion deserved better, more exploration, lore and development, but, as a force of characters made up of pragmatic, logical, bitter guys who cannot take an L, it makes sense no one really goes deep into that to at least find the likeable apsects / characters. That said, will die on the hill that the crew of the sysiphium are the best iron hands in all current lore.

[@patrickfletcher7067]

I normally love your videos on Primarchs and their Legions. But you left out so many things The Saphire King, The Keys of Hel, The Helfathers, The Kristonion Conclave, Stronos, .Shadrak Meduson,

[@DasDevilSquid]

I want to say 'thanks' for your connection of the stages of grief to the Iron Hands chapter. I'm working on a Wounded Warrior project (being a damaged vet myself) and the Iron Hands and their prosthetics called to me as a natural home for that. But your connection of grief to the Iron Hands really strikes a cord with how many service members feel about their lives post service. Much appreciated gents. Never listened to your stuff before, but I'll always appreciate this one.

[@jiado6893]

Hol up, the Iron Hands are have this big chip on their shoulder for the Salamanders and Raven Guard retreating, but they don't even bother showing up for some fights?

[@wraithdino1217]

contradiction in beliefs is a big part of their lore. they will find any excuse to blatantly hate people even if it directly contradicts with their other reasons to hate peopl

[@battlesister1559]

Exactly that's the Iron Hands to you

[@starwarsnerd100]

@@wraithdino1217 Hypocrisy is a huge part of the Imperium in general. Mechanicus members finding loop holes to get around the rules against inventing or using Necron tech. Inquisitors secretly using Chaos to fight Chaos. Hating and fearing the psykers but then using them to make their space ships work.

[@jiado6893]

@@battlesister1559 "It's not the losing, it's the not taking part."

[@Krood-j7n]

Context matters

[@1000Tomatoes]

Fulgrim holding onto Ferrus's head could be neat. You know he'd do some Macbeth monologue with it.

[@your_local_bottom]

So you’re telling me that the Iron Hands are trying to be harder, better, faster, and stronger?

[@rgambl2]

The forge chain isn’t for longevity. It’s to annotate different clan companies. As they move companies they get new forge chain. And the whole fight in silence thing is because their home world has constant sand storms and to yell would just get you a mouth full of grit.

[@ero9841]

Iron hands are entire army of Adam smashers

[@funaccount7665]

40k equivalent of the maelstrom gang

[@DarthRellek55]

I hate to be that guy but bricky forgot about the literal daemon formed from the Iron Hands suppressed rage and emotions

[@znalniaskas]

Iron Hands are the legion Perturabo actually deserved (and probably would have wanted).

[@exzyyd392]

​@Trobbins1992 "Why don't people give me praise or at least recognition?" "Skill issue"

[@znalniaskas]

@Trobbins1992 At the same time they'd probably be totally fine with decimation as punishment for failing/for their weakness.

[@Ahriman_362]

''Why am i not getting praised for my deeds?'' ''Git gud Scrub''

[@Thought_Processing_]

If Ferrus comes back I would do it like this: His soul was saved in the necrodermis of his arms. Eventually those arms get placed in like a pool of Necrodermis and his entire body is rebuilt out of pure necrodermis so he looks like a silver statue of himself. How this would happen is that his arms are collected by Trazyn for his vault and a malfunction drops them into the resurrection chamber. He could then escape possibly with the help of Clonegrim. After this the Necrons would be very interested in Ferrus as he is a Necron with a soul, arguably what the Necrons want to be.

[@PyrusFlameborn]

A necron with a soul? So is that exactly what the Adeptus Mechanicus wants? They hate the Necron for being soulless. So a Necron body with a Human soul might be what the Adeptus Mechanicus considers Nirvana

[@LastoftheMofreakins]

Dude, a funnier way would be have Trazyn collect the arms with a bit of Ferrus DNA, clone him for the sheer "look I have the best friends Primarch Barbie set" of it all and the combined might of Fulgrim and Manus is just too much for the crotchety old museum bot. That would be a buddy-cop story I would read the hell out of.

[@IronFatherJohn]

Originally the hand removal was done by the Immortals. The 30k Iron Hands Breacher squad specialists. So they would remove their shield hand(left hand) in honor of Ferrus

[@StygianSkunk]

Really liked the Iron Hands after this ep. Was kinda hoping for more on the clans and how they deviate a bit from the Codex by having the clans be the basis of company structure. Ah well. DK: Istvaan V was a bit of a massacre. Bit of an understatement there lol

[@rogaldorn9457]

you guys should do "The End and the Death" for the next book club. kind of a longer one, but i really enjoyed it.

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

i play Iron Hands as Loyalists, BUT i also Play Iron Hands as Chaos :D when the Iron Hands lost their primarch some of them said screw you to the empire as they felt they had betrayed them. so some of them made the Brothers of Hel, referring to the Keys of Hel that where used to resurrect Iron Hands Marines, though those resurrected where missing most of their memories and some where insane only remembering their death and the betrayal, hence they turned to chaos. this is also the way the Loyalists is trying to resurrect Ferrus Manus, with the keys of Hel. can you imagine if he comes back this way, with almost no memory. this could lead to him not wanting to redeem the Iron Hands but embrace it like they are doing.

[@sookendestroy1]

Iron Hands: Revive Ferus Manus head... but it's a servo skull now. "Congratulations father you are no longer weak" *SCREAMS*

[@VictorIV0310]

Super underrated chapter/legion.

[@q-tip9962]

After watching, I now want a named Iron Hands character who could symbolize acceptance. He probably has few if any bionics. The reason why he has few bionics is he has had the Iron hands ideology deconstructed, perhaps a tech priest emphasizing that he rids himself of his flesh to preserve the knowledge hes learned, while the iron hands rid of their flesh to purge weakness that isnt there. Perhaps he then gets into an argument with a blood angel over civilian casualties, boiling over to the blood angel stating that your primarch is gone and your incesent need to purge yourself of weakness will never bring him back. The iron hands would be furious but would be great to point out the hypocrisy of how human emotions are weakness yet here you are as angry as Ferrus Manus was on Istvann. Slowly the Marine will begin to look around and start to question. Why do the astrum militarum fight when they are so weak, why bother mourning when millions die daily? Why do other Space Marines mourn their fallen kin while the Iron hands don't? Until finally it leads to an epiphany for the Iron Hands marine that relying on iron can be a crutch, perhaps in a fight his bionics malfunction and leads to him getting saved by the blood angel earlier. But in the end he comes to the conclusion that Ferris is gone, and having faith that becoming metal will save you from weakness is in itself weakness. Leading to him becoming a pariah of the iron hands, being seen as a weak fool when in reality he has found a stength none of them could hope to possess.

[@ravencomplex1129]

If Ferris comes back, he needs his own version of ultradepression. Have him be just a head piloting a dreadnaught and be depressed about now having to be completely reliant on a machine to live

[@MajorSquiggles]

The wiki page for Ferrus Manus is just a redirect link to Fulgrim.

[@bludhuuntr4946]

The iron hands are super interesting. Like how it's a principle of there's that emotion is weakness, but at that same point the only believe that as a form of fear of their weakness. In a way, the Iron Hands shun emotion but are wholey ruled buy it. Also I wish bricky would have talked about named Iron Hands. I know their arnet many and that's the joke but I'm pretty sure theirs one chapter master that still remembers ferris' teachings and still hold on to his flesh.

[@slackeratlarge575]

Raven guard next? Done iron hands and Salamanders

[@sapphiredawn4321]

"They are not my hands. This fact is forgotten by my brothers - inexplicably, it has always seemed to me. The hands are strong, to be sure, and have created great things for us all, but they are not mine. And that counts for something. They forget that the silver on my arms comes from a beast that I vanquished. It is the mark of a great evil that I ended, and yet it persists within me... I would struggle to remove it now... I will not remove the silver from my flesh because I have learned to depend on it. The fault is with my mind. I rely on the augmentation given to me by my metal gauntlets, so much so that the flesh beneath them is now little more than a distant memory... A day will come when I will strip it from me, lest I lose the power to master myself forever. Already my Legion's warriors replace their shield hands with metal in my honour, and so they too are learning to doubt the natural strength of their bodies. They must be weaned off this practice before it becomes a mania for them. Hatred of what is natural, of what is human, is the first and greatest of the corruptions. So I record it here: when the time comes, I will strip my hands of their unnatural silver. I will instruct my Legion to recant their distrust of the flesh. I will turn them away from the gifts of the machine and bid them relearn the mysteries of flesh, bone and blood. When my father's Crusade is over, this shall be my sacred task. When the fighting is done, I shall cure my Legion and myself. For if fighting is all there is, if we may never pause to reflect on what such devotion to strength is doing to us, then our compulsion will only grow. Already I see the madness that path leads to, and so I shall excise the silver from my hands. In doing so I shall weaken myself and my sons, but nonetheless it must be done. The hands are strong, and have created great things, but they are not mine." Ferrus Manus, just before arriving on Istvaan V here we go

[@tomseppanen2316]

I think iron hands covering was bit weak. No mention of their history being storm walkers nor mentiones of any characters. Most of the episode was just talk about their idealogy.

[@JacatackLP]

Yeah not the best episode honestly

[@HamThePanMan]

I the book Wrath Of Iron they go into how the Iron Hands have emotional dampeners installed in there brains to make sure that all there thoughts are not clouded by emotions and such. Later in the book it also goes on about what happens when they turn off the dampeners, and what happens and how they use and deal with all the emotions that end up flooding back

[@shiron1076]

would it be ironic Ferus returns but with a full metal body~ he wanted to strip the metal of his arms and now he has a whole body made of it lmao

[@velphidrow]

​@Trobbins1992 his skull is a relic held by the iron hands

[@JHadders98]

You forgot one thing about they way they fight. They just walk at the enemy in silence. They do not take cover, they do not flinch, they just walk into oncoming fire and slowly return fire obliterating their enemies.

[@chriswyer7144]

The concept of the Iron Hands going through the stages of grief is SOOO COMPELLING!

[@carrotswordgaming3483]

The Iron Hands have a special tricky strategy that they only use on Orks. Look up "Iron Hands Trick Room Strategy" to learn more. (This is a Pokémon joke.)

[@oniemployee3437]

"Therapy?! Have you seen those prices?! Those cost an *arm* and a *leg* !" "And I already bought these." _vrrrrrrrrt_

[@tajj7]

They are an interesting contrast to the BA, who have the black rage because of the death of their primarch so the BA spend their time making stuff, perfecting arts, perfecting themselves as people to avoid falling to the black rage (and the red thirst), they are also all about honour, sacrifice, being noble etc. like Sanguinius and his sacrifice, whereas the Iron Hands fall into the grief at the death of their primarch and essentially spend their time purging and punishing themselves by removing their flesh, trying to purge and reject their humanity. BA basically spend their time trying to stop the death of their father turning them into monsters, Iron Hands basically turn themselves into monsters because of their death of their father. Neither chapter I don't think would be served by their primarch returning because who they are, what they stand for and how they act is so linked to the death of their primarchs.

[@AGrumpyPanda]

On that little tangent at the start, back when I used to play *nobody* had a space marine force painted as the chapter whose rules they were using at my store. I was playing Black Templars but they were all painted with red and silver armour, a friend played Blood Angels but painted them as loyalist Thousand Suns, so on so forth.

[@imperialinquisitormordecai9688]

Raise the storm clan-brothers!

[@BIG_metalpipes_enthusiast]

All you hear from iron hands in battle is silence broken up at random by the doom 2 sound effect for Doomguy taking damage.

[@tyecrouter6328]

It's funny that the iron hands were actually one of the strongest legions with ferrus, as Horus actually said that if ferrus would have joined him the loyalists wouldn't have stood a chance against them.

[@matthiasbinz770]

why no mention of the slanesh deamon incident, the chapter master and the re-integration of emotion? or the per ferrus history: battle of rust, amadeus du cane, hammer and the storm strategy

[@SamueL-td7fb]

welcome to AdRic

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

I don't think they ever touched on the pre primarch state of any Legion or chapter, with the possible exception of the Emperor's Children and the Blood Angels, and for those, the pre Primarch stuff is actually important to their identity.

[@consolescrub4031]

If Dk loves Depression: the legion he's really going to love the Raven Guard when their time comes. Sad/vengeful bird noises.

[@fadelsukoco3092]

One of my favorite piece of Iron Hands lore was that one time that after the Dropsite Massacre, the traitors scooped up and stuffed as many dead loyalists into cargo crates to send as tribute to somewhere, IIRC it was to a forge world to help gain its allegiance, and secretly the Iron Hands had implanted all the corpses with some cracked relic technology, I think it was the Keys of Hel, which essentially turned the astartes corpses into cyber-zombies that proceeded to wreck absolute havoc amongst the Traitor forces.

[@agollumcalledgandalf]

top intro music on all of youtube sometimes i even stick around just to hear the outro as well

[@Damn_Cat]

It struck me now that whilst anger, self-loathing and hatred do describe the iron hands, they're also horridly bitter. They've been done bad and they know they can never get back what was taken from them, and to cope they take themselves apart and put back part that feel nothing until they feel nothing as well... And the bitterness of not being strong enough stings them still, because the logical conclusion is always the realisation that their primarch didn't get the chance to show the galaxy their worth.

[@Evelynlouise17]

No characters mentioned? I mean Kardan Stronos is one of the most interesting marines in the current setting given the state the Iron Hands have been in lore wise

[@kardan2515]

Yeah he basically defied the battle calculations of a tech priest pre battle vs tyranids and jumped to help the citizens evacuate anyway.

[@81hewp]

You three hit a chord with me today. Thank you. Got a few things to face up to and make better.

[@RW-Navigator]

Iron hand here. Ya'll be making head jokes and thinking bionics are worse then space marine flesh. But the the end of the day we will all be dreadnoughts. Pray to the Omnisiah and you do amazing things since you are the machine. The Iron hands are also the only chapter/legion the praises the Omnisiah instead of the emperor. Also we currently have an actual chapter master called Kardan Stronos. He is leading the the Iron Hands on a less self destructive path. An other cool fact is that he 4th company/clan is being led by a dreadnought called Bannus.

[@Sue_Me_Too]

Iron Hands Chapter: dependable, commendable and surprisingly deep Ferrus Manus: barely even existed

[@TheSniperGTO]

Except at official tournaments. You can’t show up with a yellow army of Imperial Fists, and run them as Ultramarines, according to GW.

[@velphidrow]

As long as you don't have decals you can still Chapter decals are the breaker

[@TheSniperGTO]

Not unless they changed their rule recently. Decals had nothing to do with it, they specifically mentioned colors. To be more precise, it was showing up with a bunch of obvious Salamanders, or Ultramarines, and saying they are Iron Hamds (because they were broken and op af for awhile). It was even covered on channels at LVO, Branson Brawl, and some others. Now, I’m not some internet dick who can’t admit he’s wrong, so if they’ve changed that, good on ‘em. It only really matters at big tournaments and official GW events, so probably doesn’t apply to 90% of players anyway. I did like the WYSIWYG/painted rules though. As someone who fully paints his stuff to a high standard. It’s annoying to play against gray plastic with no arms, or torsos. “These guys are Hellblasters. This dread has a melta and rockets. This unit is flamers.” Annoying.

[@soheiecho]

@@TheSniperGTOActually I think they did change it recently or are for 10th. I forget where I read it, I think one of the recent previews of 10th but you don’t have to have the paint scheme of the specific chapter you’re playing anymore. Don’t think you can mix and match units, (i.e. Salamanders and Ultramarines units in the same army,) but they’re getting rid of that.