Is "Anti-Racism" Helping Black People? With John McWhorter

💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 John McWhorter is associate professor of linguistics at Columbia University and the author of several books including his latest title Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
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About TRIGGERnometry:
Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
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CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
03:56 The Reasons for Writing Woke Racism
07:05 Barack Obama's Election
09:09 How Do We Work Around Wokensess?
12:10 Anti-racism on Twitter vs Reality
14:03 Is It Time to Stop Talking About Systemic Racism?
19:53 Problems With Modern Race Debate
26:23 Is Wokeism Too Institutionalised to Change?
34:17 The Race Conversation Isn’t a Right vs Left Issue
36:30 Why I Use the Term “Black America”
44:07 Why Is Woke a Religion?
48:10 What Are We Not Talking About That We Really Should Be?

[@triggerpod]

Hear *John* answer extra questions from our fans by joining our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals triggernometry.locals.com/

[@mrsteve170]

Can I have some of that omicron please? Worried Boris will stop it replacing delta and stop me catching it

[@eattabagovdix7169]

John McWhorter is honorable AF. That other race hustler, Eric Michael Dyson though? Major POS

[@eliasmai6170]

I am in stem, and people are getting very toxic on Twitter. Also these type of wokeness is getting into stem

[@jonathanjollimore7156]

The radical stuff coming out of far far left wing ideology is counter productive BUT to say racism is gone is well stupid

[@Christopher_Bachm]

Support for nonsense is never a good look. The day complicit with murder is no longer a job qualification, you can talk to me about backing off. Good luck spreading the disinformation...

[@lotusstar347]

After forty-three years as an English teacher, I had to leave my beloved students and my loved career, because 1.) the Woke children of Woke Academics (two of them, anyway), and a new Woke Principal: plus, 2.) a heart condition made it not worth continuing to defend myself for having the gall to move two chatty girls apart and having them scream in my face that they "did not feel safe." Bet they didn't. Bet they'd never been told. "No!" Done! Thank you for this podcast!

[@joanofarc33]

Did you also tell the two girls that you yourself didn’t feel safe because they are aggressive and crazy?

[@microsoftword213]

Nice one for teaching for that long. Teachers definatly deserve more respect I think, they have difficult jobs and make a massive difference when the job is done well. Im sure if you paid teachers a decent proportion of the wealth they create for the country when students grow up, they would not be so underpaid.

[@lotusstar347]

@@joanofarc33 I did suspend the girls for two days, but they retuned anyway and I sent them back to the office. Next day the A.P. was at my door with the two girls down the hall. He said I had to let them in. I handed him my keys and the book I was teaching and let him know I was going to my doctor. I told my class I had a home emergency and was leaving. My cardiologist wrote me out for the rest of the year. The girls told the students they had gotten "Ms. X fired." A lone student was witness to the girls and wrote to the administration that the girls had "...come at Ms. X in a bad way." I've taught all over the US and I've watched as the texts have gotten dumbed down and the administrators and so-called counselors become more and more of a sham for-profit industry. I'm old school and the kids appreciated being taught as if they were not dumb little kids. If Ethan Crumbly had been in my class, I'd have gotten to the bottom of his sorrow and illness. I'll stand on my record. A student a few years back said, "I could have been a ''Columbiner' if it were not for this close knit class." The counselor I'd sent him to said he could not help him. So, the class and I did!

[@BodyOpt]

@@lotusstar347 Very sad story, seemingly reflective of what is happening in society more broadly outside of schools with youth. Reminds me of the well documented and recorded Evergreen debacle that made a victim of Bret Weinstein, his wife, and other colleagues. Those are the students parents and society are growing. I am based in the UK, but things aren't far behind here either. Best wishes with your health and future.

[@lotusstar347]

@@BodyOpt Thanks. I've always been just a bit ahead of the curve with this stuff and just a bit ahead of Bret and Heather. I mean time-wise.

[@djsec7207]

I’m currently reading McWhorter’s recent release Woke Racism, and recommend it highly. He is keenly aware of what has occurred in the past and where to focus currently.

[@sqwk2559]

He’s thinks the world is also going to burn up unless we address climate within ten years. You should get your money back.

[@josephmassaro]

@@sqwk2559 He doesn't have to be right about everything. If you follow someone who is right about everything...congratulations...you're in a cult.

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

I've seen it my whole life. White people making assumptions about how black people vote, how they talk, do for a living, what they believe, wear, music they listen to etc etc It's frankly f***ing embarrassing. Aside from the whole 'im gonna save you' etc etc🙄

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

@@josephmassaro 😂😂As someone in a cult as a child, I can say you're Bang on!

[@TimBitts649]

*McWhorter sounds like he is trying to strip all the fun that Woke liberals enjoy, by pretending it's 1960:* -liberals get to feel morally superior to conservatives -their false sense of moral superiority requires little effort on their part, lets them appear to have moral depth -young rich liberals get to show you how great they are, by bragging just how superior they are. By pointing out they have "privilege", they show their status. In England it's equivalent would be to say "my dad is a Lord, but I'm a humble man." -Being Woke is strongly identified as an American upper class thing for white liberals. Woke is useful, to deflect internalized guilt that comes from being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Rich kids have real and unearned economic class privilege, but shifting the focus away from their economic class privilege onto race in a dishonest way, allows rich white kids to deflect the blame for their good fortune, onto lower middle class whites...you get to have a great life, while blaming poor people for how great your life is -in short, rich liberal kids avoid mentioning how much, it's their dad's money that helps them in life, not their race, but they get to blame poor whites for their Louis Vuitton economic privilege -in upper middle class circles, this blame shifting and lying and shitting on poor people makes you popular with your rich friends, who do the same -CNN and twitter will back you up, so you get social approval for being a Woke jerk -you feel no guilt when driving by a homeless white man, who could be your uncle, your sins are covered by Woke -middle and lower class whites can pretend signal, pretend they are part of that rich kids Woke Club, by signaling their allegiance to the Woke self-proclaimed moral superiority of the economic elite. This way, even loser whites who drive pickups and voted for Trump, can feel superior this way. Then they can go back to their shitty jobs at Wal-Mart. -the 1% elite get to push this Woke garbage, to get all Americans to fight amongst themselves, to divert attention from the real fact that capitalism is a rigged game, most people don't win. Deflecting public attention onto stupid theories like Woke distracts the public, which allows the elite to continue to benefit from everything, while screwing the public. The hard work of actual morality in changing things to make America better for all economic classes, all races, that hard work is avoided by the elite deflection and support of Woke. -white college educated men from rich liberal families get to socially signal their high status to college age women, by proclaiming what high privilege they have over blacks. This increases their sexual status. This works because most white college women are not quite bright enough to sense this shallow privilege talk, is itself itself is a form of subtle disguised racist signaling, rich kids disguise their actual racism, put a coat of virtue on it, so rich kid white racism is undetected -rich liberal Karen moms are happy with all this, for similar reasons So, let rich white liberal kids have their fun. They enjoy being a**holes, while pretending to be nice. Woke is a joke.

[@AmaryllisTV]

There are a lot of people who want to speak out but are "muzzled" out of fear of repercussions. It's terrifying that a difference of idea automatically means conflict. A balanced discussion wit emotionally mature individuals is a good start.

[@anthonybrett]

Its a shame isnt it. That we live in a society where we are afraid to speak, but also listen.

[@myblacklab7]

Spot on.

[@halofreak1990]

the problem is that since the advent of social media, emotionally mature individuals are hard to come by. People are being taught en masse that they're all special and that the world revolves around them and will cater to their every whim. Then, when confronted with actual life and hardship, they're woefully unprepared.

[@deenloon]

There are far too few people seeing these conversations. This should be mainstream. Everyone should see this.

[@billsimms2511]

Mcwhorter has been getting around on mainstream media channels. I just fear many won’t listen and try to apply what he’s wanting them to. This some ideology really hijacks peoples common sense

[@black-aliss]

The mainstream processes of thought rely on people not being exposed to different points of view.

[@TheRisky9]

I agree. People literally do not think that good counter arguments to their progressive ideas exist. They just dismiss you as having a "bad take" on things. They don't think that anyone creditable thinks the way you do, and therefore you should be dismissed as ignorant.

[@ChickVicious237]

Big fan of McWhorter. Where he said that most people don't know how to just "deal" with their circumstances and build themselves up hit the mark perfectly. This is the value I find in Jordan Peterson, he helps people understand what "dealing" looks and feels like, and puts it into manageable steps. My father is one of those who "dealt", homeless at 16 and built his own home and business by the time he was 30. But I didn't learn what "dealing" was from him, he assumed I'd just figure it out like he did and life took me out a couple times. So even having that example isn't enough for a lot of us.

[@jchinckley]

That's possibly because your current "peer" group passes the idea that they aren't responsible and shouldn't be held accountable for their actions and that everyone is special around to one another in a sort of circle-jerk way. If you pay attention to Jordan Peterson then you learn what your father knew without necessarily being taught responsibility by his own father because _his_ peer group passed around the idea that _you_ are responsible for how your life turns out. Just something to think about.

[@lauralamantia5514]

I really enjoyed this guy, not just because he's not on board with this new "anti-racism" but because men like him usually come with actual solutions that can change lives. I also find him genuinely caring about black America. I rarely feel that way listening to progressive leftists speak on race

[@billsimms2511]

Yes but I’m not too confident of our country ever ending the drug war. Tat is a pipe dream imo

[@lauralamantia5514]

@@billsimms2511 that's definitely another conversation altogether!

[@miscellaniousnothing]

hard!!

[@jacobpaint]

Conservatives like Elder lack that sense of caring as well.

[@CircuitRider]

@@billsimms2511 The widespread legalization or decriminalization of cannabis in many states is at least a positive sign. This is something I couldn’t imagine happening even 15 years ago. Oregon broadening this to psychedelics and not locking up users of all drugs is a good sign as well. Heroin, cocaine or even LSD becoming widely legal in the States seems unlikely perhaps, but in 20 or 30 years I think it’s possible. After all, certain areas across the country have started to consider or implement the harm reduction strategy where IV drug users can have a safe space to inject with proper supervision, just like Vancouver and several European countries already have been doing for years.

[@billlyons7024]

McWhorter is a fantastic thinker and speaker. Glad to see him getting more attention these days. We need people who think deeply about issues to solve the problems we have.

[@sqwk2559]

There’s no shortage of clear thinkers actually. They are just kept quiet by the woke mob.

[@sqwk2559]

He can think all he likes. He’s is incredibly wrong on many things. Such as climate change and the Biden regime. Very basic things that utterly disqualify him s being referred to as a “thinker”. BS’er more like.

[@billsimms2511]

@@sqwk2559 there is not a single person on this planet that is ‘right’ about everything. We are all clouded by emotions and our own bias

[@josephmassaro]

McWhorter and Loury make me miss my college days. This was in the 90s when college was still a pretty awesome place to learn.

[@DarkAngel2512]

Peter Bogossian, the professor who did The Grievance Studies with James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose, has started his own university in Austin with some other unwoke professors. Time to let the money do the talking and see which universities will win. We need to do the same with schools.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

I absolutely love John Mcwhorter. I watch him and Glenn all the time. Great catch Triggernometry...

[@maryagrusa9850]

Once again, a great show. Always like listening to John McWhorter.

[@blacksunpress3156]

It's nice to see John mcwhorter everywhere, fox news, pbs, The View, triggernometry Good stuff.

[@Grappapappa]

Yes, I heard of this podcast in Uganda where he has not yet appeared :)

[@kmaidotia]

@@Grappapappa in Uganda? Is there a following?

[@almor2445]

Love this channel. Brilliant interviews. Every one's a gem.

[@a.j.b.8658]

I'm a bit sketchy.. the tweet-like jokes coming through are appalling.

[@aaronsmithee3296]

@@a.j.b.8658 you can turn off the live chat

[@konmoe121]

@@aaronsmithee3296 yeah I do as well, really really childish behaviour.

[@MarkRE333]

Totally agreed-great questions and they allow time to reply fully

[@Dak1549]

@@a.j.b.8658 People watch these with the chat on??? Why?

[@billybarnett2846]

I've been saying this for the past year about my fellow Black folk comparing themselves to slaves while walking around in footwear and carrying a phone that probably equals the price of three enslaved families.

[@myblacklab7]

And the phone and the footwear might have been made in a sweatshop as well, but for some reason current injustices are adjudged to be less of a concern than past injustices.

[@ianwilliams7802]

This guy is dead right. Who cares about 'justice' if that justice does nothing to improve, or worse makes things worse, to outcomes.

[@sarahd2607]

THANK YOU for inviting John McWhorter onto your show. I’ve been listening to him since the summer of 2020 and find him interesting and intelligent.

[@gertibell]

I'm gay & I KNOW things are 1000x better for us than even in the 80's or 90's. I can't except that black people today don't realize it's much better than it used to be. There are always a few fringe elements that will never change their minds, for gays & black people alike, but those are not the norm & I never worried about them. Even in the 80's it was rare to see a biracial couple, now it's perfectly normal & accepted. The list goes on & on.

[@billyingles]

McWhorter is one of the most important thinkers in this post-BLM mess that we're in. Thanks lads for lending him your platform.

[@halbleavy9900]

@Billy Ingles. What are you doing to fight racism?

[@billyingles]

@@halbleavy9900 I don't need to do anything to 'fight racism'. If someone was saying racist stuff in my presence I would certainly call them on it, but they generally don't. People of colour are not these pathetic little creatures in need of your help. I respect all people for their individuality, and the colour of their skin does not factor into my evaluation of them.

[@honeybadger5933]

post-BLM mess? 2022 is another election year where the left may lose control of Congress... they will ramp it all up again in 2022 mark my words. Maybe not to the level of 2020 but wait for 2024, Oh Boy!

[@halbleavy9900]

@@honeybadger5933 The republicans ran on white fears in the Virginia Gubernatorial election and we've nothing of Critical Race Theory since.

[@halbleavy9900]

@HunterBidensCrackPipe Where am I wrong? Critical Race Theory is not being taught in any school, you cannot find a curriculum at a single school of Critical Race Theory. Don't worry I'm sure we'll hear about it being taught again in time for the mid-terms. LOL! The republicans are "Book Burners" like Fascists.

[@danepaulstewart8464]

GAWD what a FASCINATING man! I could have watched you both speaking with him for FIVE HOURS with no problem. Man… I really love this Triggernomtry show. I really do. Eleven thumbs up! 👍

[@sportscarman5]

He and Glen Lowry have a biweekly show that you should check out. It's great

[@emnall77]

Loved his answer to the last question. Too often people are quick to point out obese people are obese because of whatever reason, but don’t recognize that there are many conditions that make it almost impossible to lose weight down to a healthy level. It’s not always a character flaw.

[@kellybarbella6587]

John McWhorter thank you for sharing your interest in the topic of obesity in a modern food culture and talking about it with sincerity and respect. I have struggled my entire life with obsessive thoughts of food, overeating, obesity, and all the predictable and disastrous health consequences that result from this problem. Some of my doctors show no interest or true concern about my declining health so I want you to know that your words made me feel human, and a little hopeful that the condition of obesity can be better understood and it’s effects avoided or reversed. All my respect to you sir❤️

[@thanksfernuthin]

This was a magnificent conversation. I'm completely done with white guilt however. (I don't want to slow walk it like John.) The pity party is over. All of the problems the black community is experiencing is easily explained without racism. Income inequality perfectly matches two parent home inequality. Regardless of race. Nigerian immigrants do better than whites in all metrics. (They're black by the way.) Asians do even better. No white supremacist culture would ever have these outcomes. The vast majority of racism experienced by blacks is confirmation bias in my opinion. Every time someone is rude they assume racism. Every time they get pulled over... racism. Every time they don't get hired or get a promotion... racism. Every time the answer is no. I'm done placating them. We have to stop placating them. Most of those struggling are "us versus them" racists and they need to be called out on it.

[@simplulo]

A century ago, under Prohibition 1.0, a different set of ethnic groups was in conflict with the police, but the mechanism was the same. That was before welfare enabled and finally normalized single motherhood.

[@brianl3397]

This is brilliant and 100%right on.

[@DarkAngel2512]

Treat them like children trying to pull a fast fun and roll your eyes and respond to their comments in an unbothered way. They'll soon give up when they dont get a reaction

[@jasonmajere2165]

Heard it called majority bias, since the majority of America is white. Does that work if I move to Africa? or Japan? Nope. Nigerian just have a different mindset. They came to America to seize opportunity with both hands. Worked with a girl that was working 84 hrs a week to buy a house, she wasn't supposed to be working that much but she was. Saw a comment about an Asian girl that said that black bosses would refuse to promote her. Most Asian h-eight crime is from blacks. Colorism is also rampant in black community, where lighter colored is seen as more favorable and darker bad. Other communities do this also, just another form of discrimination. I have an uncle that is darker skinned from being polish descent, he is just my uncle, I didn't know this was a thing until like mid-20s.

[@pegleg2959]

Very well said.m

[@bydefault7795]

John McWhorter is one of the most honest people in academia to say the least. He acknowledges the imperfections while acknowledging progress and, most of all, the truth.

[@jennaphage]

I’m no linguist but I love listening to John’s hard “ar” sounds! I’m from the South of the USA and his accent is so fun to listen to.

[@rat_king-]

This applied to the UK is basically a crime. Oh yes all culture welcome except the native one.

[@CurseCreep]

I wish i could write the way Prof. McWhorter talks. So elonquent and intelligent, yet clear and careful in the messages he brings, and never gives up on wit or humility

[@threeofive9401]

The most important element in countering racism is that the laws and mandates that promote racism are gone. In their place are laws and mandates that address racism and racist attitudes. The laws have now been around for about 50 years. I do not know how to eliminate the individual racist, sexist, ageist, or anti-Semitic. They exist in every culture and always have been.

[@jackdeniston59]

how to solve it? STFU talking about it. (not you, grifters)

[@silviaspampinato1432]

I was very impressed by Konstantin in this interview, and I nodded my head in agreement after every statement and question to John. I feel like he feels completely.

[@Lurch685]

He’s very sharp.

[@user-oe1kx2oz5g]

the most reasonable person I've heard in a long time. It's good to know that some people are interested in reality rather than religious and shallow political narratives.

[@MichaelOBrien71]

Good interview. I love John he is a very reasonable person and a fountain of knowledge 👍👍

[@CMatthewHawkins]

John McWhorter's "Losing the Race" should be issued in a Kindle format. Currently, it is only available in hardcover or paperback.

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

Fantastic interview. One of the best I've heard for a long time, good to hear it's not all doom and gloom. I get heartily sick of the patronising White woke racists.

[@theisisreincarnate]

Soooooooooooo happy to see Mcwhorter on triggernometry 😁😁😁😁👏👏👏👏👏 Super excited. Thank you Bigots. Much love from the other side of the pond. This side of the pond 😂

[@sundancer6694]

Finally!!! Someone else that doesn’t believe it’s 1960 anymore!!!!

[@mrsteve170]

Isn't it worth pondering about how it's always only between black and white people.

[@andyjarman4958]

And how 'coloured' used to be a descriptor of black people, but by saying 'people of colour' they can say 'non white' and in that way co-opt all races into the African diaspora, whilst avoiding saying 'non-white'. People-of-colour is the same as 'non-white' but if non white were used it would be too obvious this movement is an anti-white movement. Just as National Socialists were anti Jewish and Marxist Socialists were anti business owner. It's collectivist, it's race baiting and it's deceitful.

[@TheRemarkableN]

I might be one of the few that discovered John through his lectures and books on language. An excellent teacher and communicator as well as one of our best public intellectuals. Another great interview guys!

[@danegagnon]

He just spoke at my school! Great conversation.

[@SirPrancelot1]

Top man. Thanks for getting him on.

[@theaveragejoe5781]

Thanks for this. John needs to be known more in Europe

[@sqwk2559]

Why?

[@bpater12]

A fantastic interview, thank you guys as always

[@tessellatiaartilery8197]

One of the best guests you've ever hosted. I have read a lot by him, but in person his thoughtfulness and eloquence is even more rewarding to listen to. Thank you for letting us hear this high quality interview.

[@judethaddeus9856]

This man is so amazing to listen to and learn from

[@sallytazerout8357]

I am a grandmother of a really multi race family and multi religious family. We just live our lives as kindly as we can learning our very slight differences and ideas. We are all really the same. Some times we hurt, we love and live😊

[@here-for-songs--standup2468]

Thanks for this FF & KK. And all of your work. I am an early career sociology faculty in a British uni and I am trying to use arguments from your guests to start a diff conversation in my classes. It's scary and tiring esp as I am exactly the sort of 'identity' combination the woke'd like to have as their poster girl. But I am darned if anyone is going to tell me i must identify as a woman of colour! What a nasty mess. Wish me luck!

[@J1mston]

I think that out of all the answers to that brutal last question that was the best. It's something that as far as I can see we don't talk about anywhere near enough. It's especially striking that we all know that one of the big risk factors for covid is obesity yet we're still not talking about anywhere near as much. Great answer and an enjoyable interview. Good show, lads.

[@concilium1]

The divide and conquer strategy is spelled out in the neo-Marxist literature from Herbert Marcuse and Antonio Ghramce.

[@deckofcards87]

McWhorter always makes an insightful interview. I like how these two look mashed off their faces but they ask really good questions.

[@cosuinofdeath]

Bruh haha

[@HaIsKuL]

My only concern with McWhorter is, even after reading his book, when he was asked by an audience member if we should fight to balance disparities between, not just races, but also sexes, he agreed immediately, instead of saying we should look into whether these disparities are due to systemic racism or the choices of free people that they would've chosen whatever their developmental and current milieu. Other than that, he seems like one of the most level-headed intellectuals today. His book 'Woke Racism' is incredible and I highly recommend it.

[@jacobpaint]

So you don’t like that he wants to “balance disparities” with races and sexes? Surely that is a perfectly reasonable statement and in knowing how he views those disparities and the ways in which he thinks it’s best to “fight” them, no reasonable person would object.

[@ouruhuru]

@@jacobpaint I think what TheKhal is getting to is that you have to first understand what the source of the disparity it. It isn't enough to point to the existence of a disparity and conclude that it is as of a result of discriminiation and therefore worth 'fighting' for. The road to hell and all that....

[@benhull3742]

John McWhorter is a national treasure.

[@Ifyouknowyouknow230]

Can you guys try to get Thomas Sowell on the show? Great interviews btw.

[@jamesthenabignumber]

My father-in-law is 77, and a progressive in politics. He still talks like younger people have the attitudes he challenged in the 1960s when he was in his 20s. I try to describe how the world has changed quite considerably in the past 60 years. But he emotes about racism with no idea how far we have come.

[@sqwk2559]

“Progressive” is a cute world for Marxist.

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

@@sqwk2559 yes. The people that started our national health system were Marxists. The people that began the commission for racial equality were Marxists or campaigned for gay rights or equal pay. All bleeping Marxists, innit.

[@tonyc223]

Your father in law is 77 and is still believes the race hustlers? after 40 years I left the Democrat party 10 years ago because of the constant race baiting. At 64 I never thought this insane woke madness would ever come this far...

[@kathleencassel1350]

I am so glad for such practical plans to teach reading, to fight drugs, and I would add calling out unmarried pregnancy for clear reasons of success for the next generation.

[@emmanuelboakye1124]

John mcwhortter is just pure wisdom.👍👍

[@JR-bj3uf]

I was listening to John and thinking that the environmental moment shares some of the same parallels. Huge strides have been made from the days when river caught fire and cars smelled like unburned gas but if you say that, huge strides have been made, you will be pounced on as a person who does not take the environment seriously..

[@myblacklab7]

I actually think the environment is second only to nuclear war in terms of pressing issues that threaten humanity, but I oppose the Global Warming people because I think that the way they approach this issue actually threatens the environment. For instance, there are all sorts of geoengineering startups raising money to do insane things like inject carbon into the earth's crust, or spray the upper atmosphere with reflective materials. Moreover, for whatever reason, these people continuously ignore the fact that China is the biggest polluter on earth, which causes them to support regulations that incentivize companies to move their factories to less-regulated China. I feel the same way about so-called "anti-racism," and other radical racial theories. I oppose it because I think it fuels more racism.

[@JR-bj3uf]

@@myblacklab7 I could not agree more. When you push back and make people defend their utopian ideas they get mad. They call you anti-science. We could reduce greenhouse emissions with nuclear power but they won't consider it. They want electric cars without realizing that batteries are incredibly dirty to manufacture and recycle. The answers they propose are fraught with all kinds of problems. Questions don't make you anti-science. Questions are good science.

[@myblacklab7]

@@JR-bj3uf Totally. Those of us who utilize the scientific method know that we need rigorous scientific debate in order to yield the best solutions. Moreover, those who can't even have the conversation without becoming unhinged and angry are a threat to science, and those who support the censorship of scientists who disagree with "the consensus" are anti-science.

[@pablopumarestaminiau7512]

Speaking of the idea of police brutality being exaggerated: would love to see an interview with Heather McDonald

[@billsimms2511]

Yes, McDonald is brilliant and fearless - she would make for a great guest

[@Cromeola]

Absolutely outstanding interview! Thank you so much !!

[@lc4365]

Lots of respect for John McWhorter and his thoughtful, concise, clear way of speaking. Losing The Race was excellent, and Woke Racism is on my to-read book list. Thank you for hosting him!

[@Fee_V]

Such a fine man. On many levels. Great guest.

[@bertrandrussell894]

Love John. Have for years.

[@LlibertarianGalt]

I'd suggest we fix it by having the moral courage to call it out where we see it.

[@divergentsenior]

John is a man of courage and plain speaking. A treasure we are lucky to have speaking up on these issues.

[@Jay15199]

Another AMAZING guest! You guys have been killing it lately!!!

[@dman5ful]

Absolutely Love John 🙌🙌🙌discovered him a year or so ago... Fantastic guy

[@mattp7828]

Enjoyed this a lot. Great to hear a more centre view on this topic. Great challenge from KK on "Black America". I would have also liked a challenge on the assertion that systemic racism existed, I got the sense that that assertion was based on unequal outcomes and not evidence of actual systems of prejudice.

[@billsimms2511]

The notion of ‘systemic racism’ is so blurry that it’s very hard to believe it. I have been told by those that believe it exists said it’s not caused by individual racism - he said you can have a system comprised of well-meaning, kind and non-racist people but still produce ‘racist outcomes’.. to me this doesn’t make any sense When I think of systemic racism, I picture a group of white guys crafting policy with the direct intention of holding down black and brown people. This sort of thing simply isn’t happening in 2021

[@mattp7828]

@@billsimms2511 I think you've highlighted the problem, people think differrent outcomes are the evidence that the system is racist. Despite many ethnic groups other than white people doing very well in the same systems. Racism exists but it isn't the root cause of the different outcomes.

[@jane---489]

*_What a great guy, a breath of fresh. clean air ..._*

[@blakej6416]

Another amazing guest! IA sane voice is always appreciated in these times. One thing I was a bit surprised about was when you got into the issue of conspiracies and "divide and conquer". John's skepticism of that wasn't what I was expecting - I wonder what he would say to all the neo-Marxist stuff which many people feel underpins this woke movement. Those people are all about deliberate, clandestine undermining, at least from what I've been able to gather.

[@dddux]

One of your best podcasts. Loved it! Saying it's very informative is a great understatement. Thank you!

[@herodotus7]

About time you had a nice convo with John. Good stuff!

[@mariaelenaaguilar8340]

My wish is that all of American society knew of John McWhorter & his works. He’s simply brilliant.

[@mr7wi]

Moving from strength to strength. Great work.

[@lourdesvelasco9319]

Great conversation Trigger-nometry!Thank you John!

[@AcmeRacing]

At 13:57 he says something I've felt for a long time. Twitter is the perfect platform for saying something incendiary and running away. The brevity of tweets doesn't make them clever. There's not room to say anything complex or thoughtful. He's captured the central problem with the TL/DR world of social media.

[@jeremygrant1325]

"The occasional person teaches themselves how to deal, they become Larry Elder, everyone else needs to be taught." lmao

[@Jaredius]

“The bigotry of low expectations”…way to distill it! I’m going to remember that one.

[@robyncohen8542]

Thank you for a brilliant expansive conversation. May we continue to grow. Up.

[@andrewwood7303]

I have followed John McWhorter and Glenn Loury since Sam Harris recommended them on his podcast some 3 years ago. As a ‘pseudo intellectual’ I have always loved talented lecturers during my academic career. I found this talent to be thin on the ground until I earned a fellowship, followed by a number of graduate diplomas in such areas as History and Philosophy of Science and Community Health. During the Fellowship Course I discovered just how good talented educators can be when they give over and above of their time to their chosen career. It must feel this way to be a student of John’s or Glenn’s - I could weep, at the loss suffered by non-radical left students at Evergreen (Brett Weinstein) and Portland State (Peter Boghossian) when these inspiring people were hounded out by woke ideologues. Social media is a double edged sword; on one hand the unimaginative become captivated by the simplistic ideology of race hucksterism, and on the other hand anyone can access the thinking of excellent minds on the web. We are doomed if we allow tertiary institutions to succumb to the hucksterism instead of teaching critical thinking.

[@cmmndrblu]

There should just be a Blockchain for ideas

[@nealorr5086]

You forgot about University of Toronto.

[@RevStickleback]

It's crazy that people in the UK are taking their cues from the USA, where racism has an entirely different root. The USA had legally mandatory discrimination within living memory for a large number of people. It had sections of society where the legacy of people thinking of black people as almost sub-human slaves had been ingrained for generations. That never existed in the UK. The UK racism was based on the idea of people in Africa living in tribes, hunting with spears, and eating missionaries. That's nothing to be proud of either, but it's nowhere near as deep-rooted. Sometimes I get the feeling that there's a kind of "race victim envy" and people want to feel like they are oppressed. It gives them a cause to fight against.

[@simplulo]

Good point--was there ever any foreign group that Brits respected? BTW, it seems to me that there is now a large number of black British (or Irish, like Ruth Negga) actors in Hollywood productions, and not just for filling quotas.

[@gtgirlxx9416]

You don't know much about British history with race, do you? We have an ingrained history of slavery much like the US. And there was legal racial discrimination until we had our own Civil rights movement in the 1960s that brought in the race relations act. Before you let your beloved Britain off the hook, actually learn some real history first

[@RevStickleback]

We did not import millions of slaves like the USA. It's not because we are 'nicer people'. It's more simply that we did not need to. Our factories etc had a ready workforce, unlike the southern plantations of the USA. The meant we never had the tensions that arose between the generations of slaves and descendents, and the slave owners and descendents, who would fight by hook or by crook to stop what was often a black majority in their areas from 'taking over'. That sort of division in society runs far deeper, and is totally unlike anything that existed in the UK. A society that doesn't ban discrimination is very different to one where discrimination is legally mandatory. Put simply, the racism that did/does exist here just doesn't have the same deep roots as it does in the USA. Taking their position is like taking Protestant/Catholic tension in Northern Ireland as the default position for relations between those two creeds.

[@alishabroomes8895]

Britain had a heavy hand in slavery. Also in the 1960's racism was prevalent in Britain. Especially towards those from the Caribbean.

[@RevStickleback]

@@alishabroomes8895 That's entirely true, but parts of the USA had multiple generations of deep-seated racial hatred, antagonism, suspicion and injustice. That kind of thing is much harder to shake off and to get past. The more deeply ingrained attitudes are, the harder they are to change, and the bigger the consequences of those attitudes.

[@spracketskooch]

I disagree with John about divide and conquer not being a huge aspect of this mess. The people who run the world may not have started the divisions, but they certainly encourage them. They fund the groups that contribute massively to the divisions, on all sides, and they take advantage of the chaos to take more power and control. That much seems obvious given the events of the past few years. They very clearly take advantage of any weaknesses in the unity of a people. They stoke fears in order to get people to agree to things they never would have agreed to without the exaggerated fears. Yet people will often dismiss this idea out of hand, saying things like, "it's impossible, it's a conspiracy theory, how could they keep such a thing a secret?!" Here's an idea, if we're talking about it, it's not a secret. They often explicitly state their goals and their plans, but people don't even attempt to look for them. It's all out in the open if you take the time to look. Before anyone says it, by "they" I mean the people involved in groups like the IMF (International Monetary Fund), WEF (World Economic Forum), the people that Epstein was involved with, and those who funded him. There are too many to list here, so you'll have to search for yourself. P.S. Here's an interesting tidbit. Look up all the different organizations and movements across the world that have the "power fist" as part of their logo. Then look up who are the major financial backers of the organizations and movements. Finally, look at what the outcomes of the actions of these groups are, and who benefits from said outcomes. If that doesn't pique your curiosity then I don't know what will.

[@randallfowler9348]

agreed, I wrote something similar. I feel like we are going out of our way to not acknowledge the obvious because we want to believe the best in people. The problem is, the so called elites are not like normal people. They are clinical psychopaths. This looks and feels orchestrated.

[@spracketskooch]

​@@randallfowler9348 Indeed, I think most people just can't believe that anyone is evil or influential enough to orchestrate something like this. It seems like it would shatter their worldview, and they just can't handle that. And you're absolutely right about them not being normal people. The things they believe and do are _WILD_ .

[@robinrepete76]

I agree

[@bjenhaminalfredo-lvchenki8163]

Look forward to having the legendary Dr Thomas Sowell on this show someday.... dream come true

[@robyncohen8542]

Totally!!!!

[@birdwithabrokenwing]

I’m really enjoying listening to John McWhorter- this channel keeps going from strength to strength! Thank you so much Konstantin and Francis for continuing to host these brilliant conversations 👍

[@tedmom3029]

Great interview! Surprising ? Of what issue isn’t being talked about and a surprising answer. Astute. Shows a kindness at his core.

[@roslewis9923]

John has a sensitive insight into situations, which is very valuable!

[@DreamForged]

Interesting content and dialogue, enjoyed the perspective.

[@dianajoyce9482]

Wow, guys, great interview. You guys keep going from strength to strength, bravo!

[@Jaredius]

I like John’s idea of “working around” the ideological people.

[@guyskillen]

Don't be racist! Treat black kids differently! The biggest thing I try to teach is resilience - through high expectations and interactions - in my classroom.

[@millicentfullwood2733]

❤️ John Lowry he is so on point…thanks guys!

[@castlewindsor5592]

Thank you for your guest!

[@willdey1]

McWhorter’s lectures on linguistics are seriously good. Very clever bloke and talented lecturer.

[@Thomasp671]

OMG......... This guy is speaking from my heart..... Someone Can See What I See........

[@bluemouth8066]

Definitely watching this when I've got the time.

[@cristinaegas]

Brillant John MacWorther!!

[@preffypreference7416]

What an impressive man John McWhorter is. He listens, he is interesting, he is eloquent and his insights are thought provoking.

[@annababana]

I am running out the door, but I have so many thoughts about this podcast, it was so uplifting. I would like to talk about inner confidence with truth, observation, and comparisons that I feel I do not belong with- I rarely comment on videos but I am writing this as a reminder to come back to this video to wrote down my thoughts!

[@realMaverickBuckley]

John has 'no issues so far' with the Biden Kamala Presidency 😳😳😳 Thanks though guys. Still a good guy to listen to.

[@nevbarnes1034]

He also thinks the Derek Chauvin trial was fair, which I don't buy. But, as you say, he is still well worth hearing.

[@lourdesvelasco9319]

Constantine and Francis are brilliant!Thank you guys!

[@stefansoder6903]

Jesus Christ what a sane discussion!

[@IntegralBif]

McWhorter = the man

[@markallenbialik]

John McWhorter, let’s gooooo!

[@davidbarry6900]

Excellent "last question" answer (topic). Important issue too, as well as the rest of the talk.