Is Buying Used Always Better?

[@sk0mi]

Ofcourse you should accept Moza proposal to check their product. Compare it to all stuff you tried and tell us what you think. I know their full setup is very expensive, but if kept in just bare minimum like just a wheel and pedals, I'm interested in your comparison results. Thank you

[@ethanwan7653]

Moza is amazing. I just got myself a moza r5 today and its amazing

[@RockyBergen]

I think most tech enthusiasts (self included) share your interest in racing sim setups. Not willing to commit the space at the moment but I'd LOVE to see your journey. More Racing Sim content is fine with me.

[@ramendino_]

As someone that has commited to it. I could not reccomend it more.. it's genuinely fun and you can sink HOURS into it.. it you want to see grass (in assetto corda you wont be touching any real grass anymore) its perfect

[@davyc412]

I used to feel like the "not willing to commit the space" until I did the measurements. I recently bought an 8020 chassis and since it's like a bunch of modular standard pieces found that I could adjust it under my desk so it basically takes up as much space as a non tucked in desk chair. My desk sits in the corner of the room so half my desk is sim rig and half is desk. I just move monitor back and forth depending on what I want to do. And since it just looks like a non tucked in chair I've had several people over who didn't even realize it was there until I told them. Long story short is thst if you want a rig do the measurements and check out aluminum profile. You may be surprised

[@concreetbloc]

Sim racing is an incredible time sinker of a hobby, just driving around what a spectator may see as a simple circuit can become an almost impossible challenge of shaving off another 200ms. If you do want to enter this hobby, the lowest bar I would recommend would be a T300RS.

[@belabedo]

As others said, I also committed, started with the Logitech and then built myself a diy sim rig. A lot of fun. I watch this channel since I wanted to build a PC a few years ago and I am glad he will do sim racing content too.

[@KinGzeDK]

I spent around €3000 on sim gear. It's like smoking - Don't start or you'll and up like me 😓

[@LoganBarr-nl9jw]

I’ve owned a G27 wheel since 2014 and have thousands of hours played on it and it’s still going strong!

[@mindofvirtuoso3358]

I own the g29 and sometimes the nouse is unberable. Do you have the rumble noise or have you done somwthing about it?

[@matte_luna]

​@@mindofvirtuoso3358I've owned one for at least 4 years now and never heard anything like Dawid's wheel, for that matter no noise at all

[@Varmint260]

My G27's wheel had some sort of sensor fault after two years (completely lost track of where centre was), but the pedals are still going strong hooked up to my T300RS with an adaptor from Ricmotech!

[@jMewsi]

also got a G27 and i am shocked how the G29 performs for him, isn't it just the same wheel with different buttons? how can one perceive this wheel that differently? or is the G29 seriously downgraded?

[@LoganBarr-nl9jw]

@@mindofvirtuoso3358 I was very surprised by the noise his G29 was making, I thought it was broken but apparently that’s normal… My G27 definitely doesn’t make that noise so I’m not sure what they’ve changed between the 2 wheels internally.

[@PaulPeavler]

I definitely recommend getting something from Moza to test out. Especially if you can get them to send you something with load cell pedals. That’s the other big difference in setups, a load cell brake instead of just a regular brake pedal. It applies the brakes based on the pressure you apply instead of just distance, which is more like how a real car works. One thing that’s also nice about the Thrustmaster setup is that you can change the pedals out and they sell a load cell pedal set called the T-LCM, which are pretty good. Also important to note that with the Thrustmaster base (and Moza) is that the wheel itself is interchangeable. So if you want a round wheel instead of the F1 style, you can just buy a compatible one and swap them back and forth. You can’t do that with that Logitech wheel. So even though it’s cheaper, the avenues for upgrading are really limited.

[@aapje]

You can also use T-LCM with the Logitech wheel. It just requires a quick set up in the games.

[@cluckerbeatz898]

I agree getting a load cell brake improved my lap times more than any other upgrade! Moza's SRP Pedals have a load cell brake at half the cost of others! Their software lets you turn off the hall sensor entirely which is what I do.

[@unionofslavstanrepublics2317]

Depends on the condition of the used items I guess, whether the previous owner looked after their stuff or not.

[@nikolakarovic5964]

Previous kid*

[@unionofslavstanrepublics2317]

@@nikolakarovic5964 We don't make such assumptions here :)

[@WolfChen]

​@@nikolakarovic5964shame on you

[@Deja117]

@@nikolakarovic5964 We all are at heart, no need to be a spherical shaped door handle about it.

[@yonson_racing]

As a long time SIM racer, the Logitech kits are quite capable and there are some really fast guys (not me) that run them. I ran one for many years until covid when I finally decided to upgrade to DD since I really increased my racing amount.

[@Cyberdeamon]

And some people use their older gear especially the G27's shifter if they have a American Truck sim setup since you can change the knob on it.

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

I still have my old Logitech MOMO racing wheel from around 2002 laying around... No drivers for Win I guess... But I think it still works with my PS3... I have a couple of F1 games I don't use... may have to try it out one day...for shits and giggles...

[@LabCat]

I've used Logitech peripherals for decades. They're almost always a great mid-price option. I can't believe that wheel sounds like that though. I'd put in a warranty claim and see if you get the "They all do that" response. I used to be really big into flight/aerial combat sim in the early 2000s. The Wingman Extreme was my jam although I did rock a Sidewinder for a little bit.

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

@@LabCat Hehehe, my old Momo sounded the same with the force feedback.

[@ryanmccormack2458]

​@@LabCatalthough the wheel has the sound, it isn't near as pronounced as the video makes it sound like. You also don't notice it when racing. I record my races for my other KZbin channel and the mic doesn't pick it up, however it does pick up the gear paddles.

[@bennyb.1742]

It depends on the market. It's pretty common here in Canada for people to try and sell TRASHED T300/G920s for as much or more than retail and I'm glad you touched on it. Probably because it's just kind of annoying to get niche things here.

[@ffwast]

Trying to sell used for more than new is still available for is always a headscratcher to me. When it's discontinued and new in box or lightly used, okay I guess that's just the market, but when people can just buy the brand new one cheaper do these sellers have brain damage?

[@idkwhatnonamemyself1951]

@@ffwasti think they’re hoping to get some sucker that dosent check the msrp and overpays.

[@scarecrow5848]

tbh this is the best review i've seen so far for covering the differences between steering wheel drive types, with full detail explaining the bad or good of each type: and now im fully convinced to get a direct drive just because of how bad the other two sound lmao. (but thanks dawid for the awesome review!)

[@Wild7676]

The feel and detail of a DD is unmatched by anything else. HOWEVER there's a few caveats: 1. A DD wheel needs a mounting solution. Desk clamps can only do so much before you get flex which means you lose some detail 2. Pedals will need a mount. Lower end pedals might be fine on a carpet or with a box behind them, but anything with resistance will require to be bolted somehow. 3. Some less sim games can get finicky with force feedback. I couldn't set up my DD nicely in Dirt for the life of me. Forza I opted to play on a controller, FFB was pretty poor and the support for my wheel base was non existent. On the other hand some more hardcore sims work flawlessly

[@scarecrow5848]

@@Wild7676 I already knew this stuff; I was just specifically talking about Dawid here being hyper descriptive about the different wheel types.

[@PatiShorti]

I tried every type of wheel and can confirm your conclusion. I ended up with a Fanatec direct drive setup, the inverted pedals and I use my old rift for the full experience. Cant wait to see your reaction with a good wheel and vr. Absolutely worth it!

[@Duurti]

See I've tried a lot of Sim driving games with VR and I've found the opposite. But I'm not a racer. Maybe racing works because you're only really interacting with the wheel and gear shifter. In other Sim driving games there is a lot more going on and other peripherals to use. Even in a Flight Sim I don't really get the best feel by reaching forward into thin air to touch a panel or knob, when a button box or even Sim glass feels more realistic. I suppose you have to decide if it's all visual, or the haptic feel of actual objects that make it more real for you.

[@PatiShorti]

@@Duurti Yes, racing works because I only need to hold the wheel. Also tried it with handbrake and manual shifter. Feels natural because you know where they are, like in a real car. When I play games where I need to reach for buttons outside of my wheel I also prefer it without VR.

[@AlexJHatesGoogle]

@@DuurtiI’ve been using a g27 on a stand in vr and it’s been incredible. Set it up in assetto corsa with the right lut and mods and it feels so good for being a 10 year old wheel.

[@Caal9]

Hey Dawid! There is an IMMENSE aftermarket and Etsy market for the Logitech wheels and shifters! People take rubber bands and wrap the metal part of the shifter to make the resistance needed for a sequential! Also swapped out the stock wheel on mine for a GT car replica wheel.

[@Kuldar67]

or just get a g25 shifter😂

[@dirtymusicassette]

what can i say...the video i needed. someone starting from zero testing different sim gear. well done!

[@fetus2280]

The Logitech Wheel setup goes on sale all the time. 300$ usually. Ive gotten a couple for dirt cheap brand new. a G27 and G29. IMO the G27 is the best of the Logitech. Been using them for Years and Years. Day in Day out and theyre still going strong.

[@extenos]

that first wheel you bought actually doesn't use any of those ways to connect the wheel to the motor, as it most likely doesn't have a motor as cheap wheels tend to have no force feedback. instead, it probably uses bungee cords or something to pull the wheel back to the center all of the time instead of having realistic dynamic feedback like higher end wheels do

[@fsxlandings]

Exactly. Those wheels are so cheap, around or under $100 because they have no motors, is just basically a gamepad controller system in a wheel and pedal case.

[@Hippoman55]

I absolutely love playing sim Rally games! Dirt Rally 2.0 is amazing in VR but nothing compares to Richard Burns Rally. RBR is without a doubt the best Rally game to ever exist, and since it's abandonware it's free. It definitely is worth your time if you're a rally fan.

[@alexandrebier4581]

Things I have that Dawid has as well: 1. Intro's i7 2600k 2. Hughes & Kettner Guitar Amp 3. Beard Twinsies!!!!

[@daviddouillet4138]

Got the G29 a year ago brand new on heavy sale, using it with a VR headset playing only truck Sims or Beamng, I opted for the gear driven wheel for longevity reasons as I don't need the extra detailed or heavy feedback. Great vid as always!

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

I bought mine in 2020 for the same reasons, it was that or belt drive and I didn't trust a belt to last

[@ryanmatthewarumugam6823]

The stand makes a massive difference, I picked up a simhub fgt foldable stand with the seat and a t248 and I'm having the time of my life on WRC generations. I want to pick up the new EA wrc but I'm waiting for a sale. The T248 is belt and gear driven and it's quite smooth and I don't notice the gears much. Also add the new cheaper shifter and bang! Great experience.

[@archgirl]

I suspect something may be broken inside the Logitech wheel you bought; it should definitely _not_ be making that insane rattling sound in use. I own the Xbox variant (the G920), and there’s none of what you described at all, which is what makes me think there’s an issue with yours. None of that rattling in mine, in fact mine makes no noise whatsoever outside of the motor itself. And it also doesn’t feel limp and weak, either. Nothing like a direct drive wheel base, of course, but plenty strong enough for desk mounted play. I do feel the ‘notchiness’ in my wheel, as that’s just unavoidable with gear driven wheels, sadly, but it actually doesn’t really detract from the experience for me, personally.

[@marv6424]

The super heavy rattling makes me think something is broken or loose in the logitech. That said with how nice the thrustmaster wheels seem and reasonable priced i would go that route for sure. Oh and driving with a stick shifter also can be a lot of fun! You should give that a go.

[@Vesiputous]

It's a good call to do these first and then try a DD wheel after, so both you and us really get what we're comparing against each other. The availability for DD wheels is also otherwise great nowadays, except that if you want them to work on your gaming consoles (as in Gran Turismo 7), then you have to look a bit closer and spend more money for it. The "cheap" gear and belt ones usually have support for one or the other, but the "adult" DD wheels usually don't. I was surprised that the Logitech G29 sounded that bad. I had Thrustmaster T150 Pro that was supposed to be on par with that one, that cost about the same when it was available, is roughly from the same period, but has a belt. That one has a loud fan noise to keep it from overheating but at least it doesn't sound broken. It seems your Thrustmaster pedals don't have that little rubber nipple under the brake pedal that may or may not have been originally in with the pedals. The resistance that gives to the brake halfway the brake press somewhat simulates real brake feel more, though you still would have to set the games up to feel the "brake point" at the proper place. It's interesting to me that you find the pedals to be so much better even without that. Looking forward to the Moza experience!

[@Hoop27]

Try the direct drive. You will notice the difference fairly quick with the feedback you get in the wheel. (If you have FF turned up get your hands off of the dammed wheel when you crash! It really can hurt you if you don't.) But overall the pedals are WAY more important for consistency in driving and lap times especially in braking. Try a good load cell pedal which measures the force you are putting on the pedal rather than the potentiometer which measures the distance the pedal travels. What that does is trains muscle memory so you know how hard you need to push the brake to accomplish what you are trying to do. After that the rabbit hole you are hurtling towards gets crazier and crazier with hydraulics etc. It also matters what game/sim you are playing and what the game is trying to do (arcade style vs simulation.) as true sims will take greater advantage of the better tech. Also keep in mind that this is a serious hobby for many as opposed to someone who just wants to whip around a little bit in a fun game and they practice accordingly. One isn't better than the other just be aware of the amount of commitment the game/sim expects you to put into it. But if you find you really like sim driving it's a great hobby!

[@OvalboreTech]

I started out with a G920 and used it happily for a while but yeah skip belt drive and go straight to DD. I now have a VRS DD pro wheelbase, some fanatec wheels with a sim racing bay adapter and leo bodnar USB conversion boards in them, Huesinkvelt pedals, and the big boy SSQ shifter all screwed to an extrusion frame and a fixed mount sparco how is the flex on that frame? looks pretty solid amazingly. really is an enjoyable place to spend a couple of hours!

[@thetopshed]

You’re gunna love the direct drive. As well as a decent load cell brake pedal, shifter and handbrake. Hopefully Moza come to the party with all that. You’ll need a better rig for it though lol.

[@nukedathlonman]

There is one thing I'm not happy with of my Logitech - I know steering feel of the feedback could be better, it's no where near as awful as other budget wheels (def takes some tuning). No, the actual problem is the horrible add on manual shifter - it's prone to not registering gears properly which can and does lead to miss shifts. I need to look into that. I know more people will use the paddle shifters though, so this may not be an issue for many. I moded the pedals as well - well specifically the clutch pedal just to get a little more realistic push back from it. In a real car, there's a point in the clutch travel where the tension changes (in the friction zone), and I did get mine to mimick that. I had considered an aftermarket mod for the brake pedal which would change it to a tension feedback as opposed to being a long travel spring push back, but opted to leave it.

[@roderickkennedy2192]

Would love to hear what you think about the Moza, i use a tm t300rs, and if i could afford it would go dd in a heartbeat, sadly will never happen,

[@LilTachanka]

good for u because they have a 5nm base bundle for sale for around 500usd

[@thephoenixking1086]

I am a huge racing game fanatic and so on, but Wheels and VR are the two things I can never do, mostly due to the fact I do not have the room for them sadly. The Logi wheel shown here is pretty small and easy to put away, which I think is why they are so popular compared to other wheels that have a frame and so on. VR is possible in my room, but not with a wheel+frame etc.

[@kirby1225]

the logi wheel is popular is because it's cheap while being decent and it's been around for so long.

[@johnroberts2905]

Over the past 10 years I've gone from a Logitech G27 -> Fanatec Belt drive -> Fanatec DD. The more expensive wheel won't make you any faster - some of the top competitive people still use Logitechs. It helps with the enjoyment and immersion. My biggest issue with the Logitech was the vagueness around the centre. Noise didn't bother me so much, just turn the headphones up! A load cell brake pedal is a game changer though, which neither of those setups have.

[@Edgemaster72]

I like how in the context part it seemed like you were skeptical of the difference between base types, but then when you got hands on it seems the difference really was apparent

[@Commoner64]

I had a g923 and thought it was broken because of all the rattling in the force feedback. I returned it and got a Thrustmaster T300 base, added a nice wheel, shifter and pedals and couldn't be happier. I don't understand how the logitech stuff is so highly rated when it's absolute garbage. Either people buying it are in denial or logitech has bots reviewing their stuff. It's trash though.

[@trevorsnyder4262]

As someone with a full 8020 rig and Direct drive Base with custom wheel, I’m pumped that more attention is being brought to the hobby. Finding the mid-upper tier belt driven wheels (look for dual belt if possible) on used market is getting far easier. Hope to see a video on the Moza wheel/base!

[@Essobee]

The sim racing pool is deep. I've been at it since the early 00's, and am still finding new ways to live my virtual race driver life. Direct drive is an expanding market, and Moza is one of the newer players. Check them out, and compare with other DD manufacturers. However, compared to any belt or G29 wheel, even the worst DD will wow with it's response and power. Available for questions/opinions.

[@casedistorted]

I bought a new G29 on sale at $200 direct from Logitech, free shipping, had a $20 off coupon too, so $180 total, then got the shifter for it as well on sale for $50, free shipping. Got some good gmod uk stuff on sale 25% off, all brand new. Pretty decent deals to enter into the “racing” sim setup

[@lenairhead]

As you were curious about the Logitech Shifter in the video i can tell you It is NOT Sequential you need to modify the shifter somewhat that it can move only up and down for a more... rally oriented shifting Otherwise the shifter will always stay in its H-Pattern shifting with 6 Gears (and Reverse gear as extra)

[@mukkah]

13:56 "Just do your research and be patient" BEST consumer advice that is critical in 2023 when purchasing almost anything above basic essentials

[@NoMorePlz]

I've been racing for about 5 years now, and I've used every tech level mentioned, in that order. Logi G29 -> Fanatec CSW 2.5 (belt) -> Fanatec CSL DD. My advice is to buy a used G29 for cheap. If you find yourself using it more than once a year or you really enjoy the hobby, then think about upgrading straight to an inexpensive direct drive. They are very affordable now. They do have a lower torque rating compared to the much more expensive wheel bases, but 5 or 8nm is definitely enough to tire your arms out over a 45 minute race.

[@meman24]

FYI the Logitech shifter add on will work as a sequential if you get a "mod" off ebay for like 10 bucks. It's basically a rubberband with a 3d printed plate to make it look nice :) Obviously this only works on PC or in PS4 games that allow you to remap the signal so "shift up" becomes "gear 3" and "shift down" becomes "gear 4" Settings are really important for the G29, with the right settings it feels awesome. The notchiness you are getting is because it is clipping, you wanna get it right up to the line such that it only clips on occasions like landing a jump or hitting a high curb. Cheers!

[@Atropos148]

I would love to see the Moza wheel compared to the other ones :D especially after what you had to go thru with the cheap setup EDIT: after finishing the video, thank you for showing off a belt drive wheel, i might look into buying one now

[@01mggt]

I lucked out and got the same TX wheel base with the Ferrari wheel attached and the pedals with a stand all used for about $158 on eBay shipped this week! Deals are out there if you look for them for sure. Wheels that work with the Xbox, like this TX, are often much cheaper than PS5 compatible like the T300 which is the PS5 version of this same wheel

[@noahtemple8312]

YES, Dawid+Sim racing is my dream come true!

[@martijnp4313]

Good video, Dawid. The lowest form of technology is actually a wheel with a bungee cord, which I assume was the case with the Amazon wheel - but also Thrustmaster's cheapest wheel, the T80/458 Spider. These wheels have no force feedback, have very limited degrees of rotation and are generally not recommended to have some fun with simracing.

[@rustler08]

If you take some warm water, add a bit of dish soap, and use a soft brush on the Alcantara, you can get all that grease out. Then it will stop looking all matted-down and disgusting. Finally, just use a microfiber towel and grab around it, you'll get it dry. You can even use a soft tooth brush. Just don't be too aggressive.

[@prive_ik_ben_wie_ik_ben]

Man your gonna love a DD wheel base! Combine it with VR and you won't go back to screen setup.

[@yourleastfavoriteson]

I have a Thrustmaster T300 and after 300+ hours on it, it's still going strong (Belt Driven). Can't wait for the new Thrustmaster DD base for console/PC. Good stuff, Dawid. Join the sim side!

[@Lurch-Bot]

Wish more tubers would follow Dawid's example and treat the industry with all the seriousness it deserves. Steve at GN is pretty much there at this point too.

[@RichardCalder67]

There was something desperately wrong with your settings, or the actual G29 wheel you had, because mine did not make those sounds or feel very notchy at all.

[@jaturnley]

Dawid, if your channel pulls a sponsor who wants to send you something you actually want, don't hesitate. Say yes, make the video, put in the disclaimers and enjoy the benefits of your hard work building your channel.

[@panvlk]

You mentioned rally being the best racing sim genre. For testing wheels that might not be the case, because the circuit racing sims tend to be much more advanced from technical standpoint. iRacing, rFactor 2, ACC, Raceroom have a lot more going on than the rally games. Rally games are fun, but the simulation aspects don't quite match the circuit counterparts. I'd recommend testing the wheels primarily on one of the sims I mentioned to get the most out of them.

[@mattalford3932]

I'm literally one of those Gary's online. Thousands of hours over 20+ years of sim racing goodness lol.

[@FormulaDigital]

Good job weird tech guy!

[@Pslytely_Psycho_GreybeardGamer]

My Thrustmaster has the Ferrari wheel and is over 8 years old and still works perfectly. They have sold that same base for many years and they are quite reliable. I had trouble a couple of years ago installing a firmware update that kept rejecting the driver for that update. Thrustmaster gave me great assistance via emails to get it straitened out and working perfectly again. Considering it was at least 6 years out of warranty at that time I thought the customer service was exceptional as they never asked when I bought it and were only concerned with getting it to work correctly for me. It is a great wheel.

[@leoalemax]

man you are the best thing that happen in tech youtube this year.

[@borkingdoggouwuuwuw]

For dirt rally I recommend dropping the steering rotation in ghub down to realistic rally car rotation if driving newer rally cars as the new ones tend to be in the 540 ish range. Older vary from 720 to 900.

[@garbuckle3000]

I have something similar to that Logitech. Mine is a Driving Force GT, which I got like a decade ago, and it's still going strong. It plays nice with all my console and PC games. I originally got it for Gran Turismo on PS3. I now use it mainly for Truck Simulators with my 3x 4k TV's. Luckily, it also has the sequential gear shift. I got it for $150 CAD from Canada Computer. Keep your eye out, and you may find a deal. If you are thinking of playing simulators, make sure you get a wheel with the 900 degrees of motion ;) Thanks for the fun video!

[@jeyendeoso]

ah the evolution of our dear caveman. From a cheapo e-waste amazon wheel (the cheap garbage), to a new logitech and a used thrustmaster (middle of the road), and soon direct drive and VR (top of the line).

[@FatswellSmart]

the absolute best case scenario for a g29 would be richard burns rally, i remember when i tried it on my old dfgt wheel it was infinitely better than anything i had tried before.

[@TheRivalryDrifting]

dr2s poor ffb is made worse by the fact the the cars in dr2 pivot in the middle rather than pivoting of the rear wheels. thought honstly the cars pivot in the middle could be %90 the reson why dr2s ffb is bad

[@corollavirus4age]

my good ol reliable G27 still works perfectly to this day i absolutely love it

[@NotThatGuyJD]

Definitely get the moza stuff and do the comparison. You'll love that.

[@TrackDayMedia]

Surprised you like the thrustmaster pedals over logitechs pedals. Thrustmasters T3PA pedals are probably the worst pedals I've ever used. Thrustmasters other pedals (the T3PM and TLCM) when I upgraded to thrustmaster when my old Logitech wheel finally died, i hated the pedals immediately. I have since upgraded to MOZA SRP load cell pedals, and that's easily the best upgrade I have done for my som racing setup.

[@LMT069]

The logi sounds broken.

[@EmesiS]

If you go DD that stand won't cut it. You can clean the alcantara on that ThrustMaster wheel. It looks like it's never been cleaned. Also you can buy a used round wheel for your rally stuff.

[@TheRivalryDrifting]

mans just raw doging some one else hand gunk lol

[@SubstituteRealitiesChannel]

I'm a noobie first timer into sim driving as well, got my wheel stand this week to fit my very very used fanatec gear shifter and pedals. Haven't a got a decent direct drive steering wheel yet so I'm just throwing on a plebian Hori wheel I loan from a friend who never use it anymore. I think you should try that Moza wheel and you probably be in shock. Guess they will send you a R5 bundle I think? Or a R9 bundle?

[@Vaustick]

6:19 It does if you mod it a little bit with a 3d printed plate and some rubber bands.

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

I have a G29 and absolutely love it. Back when I got it in 2020 it was either that or belt drive wheels (direct drive didnt exist/were extremely expensive) and I personally didnt trust a rubber belt to not fail at some point

[@kristofsomers2020]

I bought my g29 with the exact same reasoning behind it, and BOY... was I ever wrong about that. The logitech feels like a rickety cheap toy that can break at any moment compared to my belt driven thrustmaster tgt II (6.5Nm). Not even to mention the difference between the g29 brake pedal vs the thrustmaster load cell pedal. the logitech doesn't hold up at all.

[@ElShogoso]

​@@kristofsomers2020Really? I have a logitech driving force GT from 2007 that got a LOT of mileage and is still working perfectly. Wouldn't say durability is a problem on those logitech wheels even if they look and feel plasticky

[@kristofsomers2020]

@@ElShogoso well I have both and I know which is gathering dust

[@cluckerbeatz898]

Ive used the g923 and it was a good enough wheel to get me into sim racing. I recently bought a Used Moza R9 base / RSV2 wheel combo and Moza SRP load cell pedals all for $700 and a used Trak Racer TRX Alpine cockpit for $900 with a Samsung 3840x1080 49" monitor! Best decision of my life I must say! It is the most fun you can have on a pc period! I mainly play IRacing though which is a very expensive game to get into to. I hope you do get the Moza setup to try out. The DD wheels are far superior to anything else. I may upgrade to the R12 in the future and get moza's higher end CRP pedal set. Their mid tier SRP pedal set does have a dual brake sensor hall and load cell. You can turn the hall sensor off and just use the load cell sensor which is what I do. We humans are far better at sensing pressure over distance. Funny you showed my exact base/wheel setup and TRX cockpit when talking about the proper setup! oh and I used FB Marketplace to find my deals! I have about $1900 total into my rig but new it all would cost me around $4000

[@mrmalavey1098]

had my t300 for like 6 or more years now and it hasnt missed a beat, id suggest getting some stiffer springs for the pedals from fleabay for the clutch and brake, also then you can swap the throttle spring to the clutch and make a frame from ply wood to invert the pedals if ya not keen on the pedals not hanging down. Finally id suggest getting a usb hydro handbrake if ya like rally games, or just make one and splice into either the l3/r3 button on the wheel base

[@mattbergen5293]

Logitech G25 owner here. I'd love a more expensive setup..however..I pre-ordered it in 2005...and its still going strong today. I use it a couple times a week..I have zero complaints for the 300CAD I paid.

[@radwolf4074]

I’ve bought a G920 (same as G29) used and it took quite some time to adjust it. It’s not the best wheel but with a proper tune up it’s actually pretty solid. Feedback for it after adjusting is pretty good and I’m also using an aftermarket sports steering wheel (removed the paddle shifters and more to reduce weight to not lose too much FFB)

[@Jon_Saan]

Hearing Dawid talk about sim racing feels surreal but I love this keep doing it

[@joeschmoe5009]

Cammus' direct drive systems are literally used in hyper cars and were so good they decided to create a sim racing kit from it. Its quite interesting.

[@samuelking1347]

Really...that's very interesting!

[@Varmint260]

Similar journey here, went from a Logitech G27 to a Thrustmaster T300RS. I've had some great times in Dirt Rally, American Truck Sim, Gran Turismo (5, 6, 7), and even some classic PC racers like 1nsane! and Richard Burns Rally.

[@isaiahdjianto307]

Moza is worth checking out. In my experience the out-of-box experience is a lot more finnicky than bigger names like logitech, thrustmaster, or fanatec. Also I will now sell all my sim racing gear to metro vancouver in the hopes Dawid will buy it

[@mqaisataloss.5951]

Yup racing is amazing in VR can never go back to screens.

[@Dewm_]

Believe it or not, especially in Victoria / Vancouver; a decent way to pick up a really affordable wheel is Value Village! It's not the most common, so I suggest only using this when you're on a hard budget, but they don't price them very highly. I was able to pick up a Logitech Driving Force GT Pro for $14 including the pedals! It was an insane deal and lasted me a long time until a tooth or two on the gears broke. I've since handed it down to get someone else into the hobby.

[@AhmedAljazwi]

I don't know why they make the steering wheels small, I want one like the real deal

[@delsydsoftware]

You can greatly improve the feel of the Logitech pedals by installing progressive springs for the pedals. It's been 10 years since I did it, but I seem to remember them being pretty cheap.

[@jakebg1985]

Great video. If you want to dive into this further and check out just how cheap someone can get into this, you should look at the T128x. Way cheaper than the g27/29, arguably a better wheel with a hybrid belt/gear system. Downsides are crappy pedals, kind of looks goofy, is kind of slow to react so is difficult to drift with but no more so than the g27,and is way more plastic. I tried both and actually preferred the cheaper t128 and returned the Logitech. Have had it for a year with no issues.

[@belabedo]

I watched your channel since I built my PC a few years ago. Man, sim racing with VR is on another level with a direct drive. You should definitely try it.

[@an3k]

Logitech made one of the best driving wheels: The G27. It was gear driven but you couldn't feel them and it didn't made those "I'm broken as fuck" sounds yours did. However, because that G27 didn't had Xbox or PS4 buttons it was not compatible with Xbox or PS4. Well, technically it was but officially it was not. Thus, Logitech invested some work to make the wheel not working anymore (drivers, yay) and revealed the heavily downgraded G29.

[@fuzzylumpkins6034]

This started out as a silly hobby in the house to do a few drive simulators and now has become a full on addiction between me and the hellspawn. Our youngest has now had us build him a full scale wooden mario kart to fit his pedals and wheel (had to upgrade to pro series) for him to use with the switch on big screen and i am thinking about building a full mock up of Peach's for the missus. It has changed the landscape forever. We initially purchased used with guarantees but returned them for credit toward new wheels after a few weeks for the pc games and the switch. The reason being you get a used product that is worn and you have no real idea how long it was abused for as every single ad says "like new" and "barely used" and in our experience it always translated to "used to drive all terrain military vehicles off cliffs and over fields of enemy soldiers while mashing both pedals at once. Some products require new, if you have to put your hands to it on a regular basis (controllers, mouse, steering wheel) and it was potentially used by angry hornets and teenagers, buy new. A gpu is fine to buy used as it can be tested before hand and a little thermal paste and a dusting and some bios adjustments can sort them out.

[@2L8M8Basher]

it's knackard, have the same wheel and get 0 noise/grinding out of it.

[@bablela26]

Ye i'm surprised I don't see more comments about this... My g25 doesn't make that kind of noises, and it's a really old wheel... So a new g29? No way they dropped quality that low

[@g1g3l]

I mean, I did manage to snatch a, nearly mint condition, T300RS GT Ferrari Alcantara edition with the TH8A shifter and a stand for all of them for 400 bucks second hand. Brand new the shifter is about 200 bucks where I'm from and the wheel itself is around 420. I'd say second hand is the better option overall. Now depends how used and abused the wheels are.

[@KurisuKun]

Yes gimme more simracer David

[@cup_and_cone]

I have the Logitech G PRO racing wheel and the G PRO racing pedal setup on my custom race rig. It's the only DD wheel that I could use on both PC (Assetto Corsa/iRacing) and PS5 (GT7), so had to take it. I am happy with it so far. People really don't know what they're missing until they try a proper sim setup, but it's good that prices are coming down in most aspects... Wheels, high refresh TVs, VR, etc.

[@moddaudio]

SF Rush (coin-op Atari) used a 1" belt and a servo with enough torque to break you wrist if tuned to do so. Belts work fine if they are not 1/8" cheapo rubber ones.

[@CraigPrinsloo]

I'm slowly building up my hardware. From the research I've been following, a loadcelll brake pedal is a must. I have my eye on the moza srp pedals.

[@SpoopyGamer]

You really should have used something like Assetto Corsa or iRacing to test the wheels feedback instead of Dirt Rally and Forza

[@Phillz91]

Another good upgrade that helps with immersion is a pedal set with a loadcell brake pedal. Like the wheelbases you can go pretty crazy with pedals but the Thrustmaster set is a decent option. I prefered the immersion so a used, but better setup was my choice getting into the hobby. Cheap wheel to get a taste and then upgraded to a belt driven once I could.

[@ironreed2654]

I've only ever had issues with Wireless Logitech products and their software; their wired equipment running on windows or game software has always been great.

[@davyc412]

I've had a g25(the first Gen Logitech wheel) a t300 (the better version of the thrustmaster wheel) and now am using a moza r9. This sounds pretty accurate for the difference between the logi and tm wheels. Once properly configured the Logitech wheel isn't thst bad, it's a little grindy and weak but definitley useable. The dd moza is a totally different level though. Having 9nm compared to around 2.5 with the logi and 4 for the tm is massive not only with peak force but also the subtle details. It's also so smooth its insane. I can't wait for you to check out that moza wheel. Any new wheel requires a trip to the settings though. They usually have a centering spring effect on by default which 100% needs to be turned off or set to 0 before using since it numbs out a lot of the ffb and overlays a really fake centering spring effect Also as a side note. For me one of the main reasons to go with a formula style open wheel rim is that they typically weigh less than a round wheel rim. And for less powerful wheelbase the weight of the wheel rim makes a big difference in how strong the force feedback comes through, since it has a lot less mass to spin.

[@alaskadudewithdogs98]

Everyone needs to try VR racing with a wheel at least once. The first time you slide a car sideways and your brain doesn’t get the feedback from your inner ear to match what your eyes are seeing, you get a very unique nausea

[@Aadilf1]

Absolutely. I got my Thrustmaster TS-PC base and wheel, Th8a shifter and pedals all for around £200

[@kingster3835]

time to get into Direct Drive world, m8!!! it will defenately feel 101% better than belt driven systems :)

[@Majima_Nowhere]

I've had to return way too many electronics bought used online. Sometimes it feels like whoever "refurbishes" an item just plugs it in for 5 seconds and ships it back out if the lights turn on without actually checking functionality. Private sales are different, but I only ever buy new online now.

[@AdamsWorlds]

I got a g920 locally with stand, gearstick basically new unwanted christmas gift. I guess its that same old story someone wants it, then not enough room or time for it so on the marketplace it goes. Anyway in total £150 i paid for everything that included the stand, seat and gearstick. Does not make the noises yours seams to though its allot more quiet. I ended up modifying the brake feel with some hard foam and a rubber eraser as i did not like properly stomping on it (people say you want it hard, but as someone who does allot of track days IRL i can say it was horrid as stock and way to hard.) I also tweaked it in the windows calibration. All good im happy with it its 80% decent feeling so good enough.

[@4ymhoiyt429]

The crappy wheel from amazon also uses direct. I have opened it and seens those insides. Actual thing allows 270 degrees but for some reason factory decided to make only 180 work.

[@Buggest]

The Logitech wheel shouldn’t be making that noise. It sounds defective. The gears sound like they have disconnected and are grinding/slipping.

[@chironbramberger]

This was a really great introduction! Thanks!

[@prizmax9195]

the steering wheel is small cause most real steering wheels that are quick disconnect aka any wheel used for any sort of racing applications just tend to be a lot smaller than real ones, it isnt a logitech thing its quite realistic actually, but thats a preference thing so most decent housing will let you change the steering wheel that comes with

[@FastR080T]

I started off with the Thrust master TMX and upgraded to the T500RS the difference between gears and belt driven is night and day. Awesome work showing the difference. Also, please do a review on the Moza kit.

[@Taybarb]

Currently using a t300 RS Gt on Pc, Direct drive is the goal eventually but I'm happy enough with what I have for now. Sim Racing is awesome and is only getting cheaper and better right now.