Is CS2's Inferno Too Detailed?

With all of the updates Inferno has received since launch, it is apparent that Valve is keen on making it more competitively viable, but are these changes destroying the map's beauty and immersion? Let's take a look...
0:00 Counter-Strike 1999
0:26 Source 2 Capabilities
1:08 "Decluttering" Inferno
1:26 Library
2:11 Garage Door
2:53 Balcony
3:19 Miscellaneous Changes
4:13 The Solution?
5:32 Conclusion
Special thanks to:
• 3kiksphillip for inspiring me to make a CS2 video
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#cs2 #counterstrike2

[@wonkglorg]

I love the details they added when making the changes, instead of just removing parts they gave it a story and a reason to be different

[@LEDs]

Same, while they don't/can't do this in every case, it's incredible how they did it with Library and Balcony

[@Nyllsor]

Totaly agree! the map has a story in its setting, but also a meta-story in its gameplay changes. Very charming! De_Inferno is my all time favourite official map since Source.

[@Newbyte]

I feel tired of all the maps being designed for pros only. As a more casual player I find quirky maps fun.

[@gui18bif]

Next thing you know they're turning every wall orange to help pros

[@EugenijusKrenis]

I dunno a lot of these feel like helping casual players too, like the barrels reducing visibility of enemies and etc, something more experienced player may be more savvy and prepared for than a casual.

[@Nick-ij5nt]

Why do you care about the aesthetics of maps? Layout and gameplay matter way more. What do you define as "quirky"? Yes, you could say poor visibility in a competitive game is "quirky" but that doesn't mean it's a good design philosophy.

[@saad_vi]

Wait till you realize that alot of pros, wannabepros and even semi casual players use very low/competitive settings, stretched 4:3 resolution for less input delay and more fps for better gameplay.. so.. in short, they couldnt care less about the new details valve had to offer for them...

[@Freaktacular]

​@@saad_vigod, i hate metagaming.

[@romanrat5613]

The change at 3:25 is one I'm a little bitter about. It was a really nice fountain before

[@LEDs]

Yeah, I'm still torn about that change

[@ziphy_6471]

Looks the same lol

[@EugenijusKrenis]

Changing water pump into a single small pot is like the only change that really feels odd and disappointing, it makes very little sense now, everything else got some environmental storytelling to it or is pretty subtle and subdued without ruining what was there originally.

[@blaine2998]

Glad you covered this topic , ever since cs2 came out i feel like the player models blend too much with the overall environment no matter the map . Honestly I think they need to work on player models rather than maps for better visibility.

[@KipoKupo]

I feel like most of the changes are rather minuscule and don't harm the visuals. In fact for most of these I highly doubt that if you never showed me the before and after I would even notice the changes aside from "library". As for the windows removal I don't think the window even looked good anyways but it is an odd removal since it's really not even part of the problem presented.

[@LEDs]

Maybe whoever put it there in the first place decided that they didn't like it so they took it away? Who knows

[@Coolyo420]

Please make longer videos, doesnt matter cs2 or tf2, we like both

[@Prince.Claveria]

Yeah man same

[@LEDs]

When I make a video, I go until I feel like I've said what has needed to be said, so some videos are longer than others

[@Myiic]

As someone who has been playing a lot of the new CS2 inferno maps I honestly couldn't tell a difference between the the visibility on the older and new version, I play on 1080p and I still had no trouble discerning enemies from backgrounds, these changes don't alter much in my opinion and just seems like busy work for Valve when they have other things to worry about then if a milk crate needs to be removed.

[@LEDs]

Yeah, most of us probably didn't even notice until now, but it's worth pointing out since this kind of stuff matters to a lot of people

[@keeganpenney169]

My old mapping community i just rekindled with, this was one of the heaviest thing we mostly agreed on. It becomes so easy to become distracted in something thats meant to be competitive in reflex and skill. If this game was some longer drawn out conflict in rounds, as the round time is reduced so much from older versions of the game it really matters. As a mapper id say make contentious decisions when designing. Its too easy to be swept into the camp of more details these days but keep your maps use case, ie deathmatch maps could have more detail but timer constraint on maps like de_ should be simpler in design practices.

[@hpp676]

I've been playing recently with a modified longer timer and it gives you the opportunity to experience the game at a slower pace which helps to appreciate the maps more and tiny details don't matter as much.

[@hubanimations]

I think can find a balance between gameplay and visual details. For everything that was removed from De_inferno, the map still looks really good.

[@itsjustJex]

Just like all visual assets in video games, maps are a work of art. As long as the originals are preserved, I don't mind them being updated to be less clutered.

[@viriYT]

Appreciate you covering the topic! was a good watch. and yeah, reading all the backlash to the post was very interesting 😅main motive is that CS maintains that balance between map design and competitive gameplay

[@mil260zs]

I hope they wont remove more and more details, it really kills the looks of the map, especially if youre a mapper yourself

[@LEDs]

Idk if you know, but they removed the seagulls from the map. I didn't mention it in the video because the update happened after I had already finished it, but apparently it looked to similar to a flashbang. 🤷‍♂️

[@mil260zs]

@@LEDs im not that updated on cs news, so map changes would mostly go under my radar, tho as a mapper, i see changes made to maps that i play often in other source games, but mostly all i find are silly mistakes that normal player would never find, but a mapper would in a matter of seconds

[@puskamuha9000]

stay a mapper then and dont say anything about cs if you arent experienced PLEASE

[@Gyovali]

@@puskamuha9000 You just told the person with the skill set to make the maps you 'need experience for' to not talk about the thing they would literally be responsible for creating. Mappers absolutely have just as much say in map design as the people who play the game with that map. You sound ridiculous. literally gonna tell mappers not to make maps since they don't know the game and literally nobody gonna be left to make maps for your game at that rate.

[@hpp676]

That's what happened with CS:GO the maps would release full of life, detail, color. And slowly all of that would be plucked away to make the maps more "competitive"

[@AkillesOfSweden]

I think all the maps that is in the competitive pool needs to be kept simple and competitive. They are definitely going in the right direction with all these changes. For more visually appealing maps I think we need to wait until they release a new operation. That’s usually when those types of maps gets their time in the spotlight, and since they are made to play casually most people don’t care about stuff like player visibility or weird clipping

[@MrRezQ]

Valve: declutters inferno for gameplay Player model skins: 👁️👄👁️

[@oberonia7264]

great video! nice work, i love the topics you choose

[@TeaIngyer]

One big point to make. Over-detailing in games is becoming an accessibility issue. I'm visually impaired, and in newer games I often have issues where I can't see what's going on amid all the details. It's much harder for me to play something like Halo MMC's new graphics vs the original graphics option for this reason. It's also difficult because any accessibility feature you add in options to increase readability will be an advantage for people who don't necessarily need it, which will lead to community backlash over it becoming optimal play to have it enabled.

[@Fyr35555]

Maybe a hot take but here we go: For official tournaments and in premier mode, each map should have a set of default agents with good visibility for that specific map theme to avoid these issues popping up as much in general. No green agents hiding in a bush in a random corner. Then for the more casual modes let people use whatever agents they want. Hopefully this would mean less changes needed to the map details themselves for visibility in competitive scenarios, though I think realistically whatever the art style there will always be case where changes might have to be made for visibility.

[@ChibiM11]

4:46 captions say “Valve was able to PERVERSE” when @LED said “Valve was able to PRESERVE”

[@LEDs]

Fixed, thanks

[@DemopanTF2]

I'm on the side of gameplay over graphics. As long as I can see important details (i.e. enemies) clearly, it's good.

[@Combinehuntsmanunit]

I think that the game needs to balance the player visibility more but keep the style of the maps intact. some clutter can be seen as bad but I think as long as important sightlines have decently flat walls and a contrasting colour on them you can keep geometry detail.

[@littleboyred1]

I think the complaints about detail being removed are absurd. I doubt they'd be thinking about those spots or details if it was like that from the start. All that's taking people out of the game, are themselves. To complain on Twitter. There's nothing "unimmersive" about a single wall out of many not being packed with distracting objects. Kudos to Valve for all these changes! Even ones like windows being removed. It's not just about players not being directly obscured- it's about being able to quickly parse everything that's onscreen. Surrounding clutter adds just that teeny bit of extra time for your brain to interpret things. Even more-so for some autistic people (*like me*) who can struggle deciphering and navigating cluttered, visually-noisy environments. I consider this an accessibility win with zero downside to anyone. I personally struggle with most modern games due to this and wish more games gave the slightest of a damn.

[@LEDs]

It's not that black and white. A wall isn't either "detailed" or "not detailed." Some parts can be extremely detailed with no gameplay implications, while others need to be thought about carefully. Counter-Strike has always tried to look real, so it only makes sense to make maps look as real as they can.

[@dyxieezeevasquallvanty8868]

5:18 "A crouching terrorist is pretty difficult to see"

[@georgejpg]

Pretty sure the bullet holes aren't 3d. They use parallax occlusion

[@LEDs]

You're correct, I just said 3D because they appear that way. If you shoot the corner of a wall and look from the side, it starts to look all wonky

[@oofooflemon]

nice

[@bengamincopper6508]

I love how versatile source is

[@thealandude9146]

I like how the map changes actually have an environmental reason to them, not just directly removed

[@LEDs]

True, up until the most recent patch

[@thealandude9146]

@@LEDs oof

[@whatahoot1185]

I love the way you get in depth into mechanics while keeping up a fast paced fun energy in your videos. Huge fan of your work man, keep it up!

[@LEDs]

I appreciate that!

[@Wavpro]

Good video, but the reason for switching to source 2 was more that source 1 was older than a sizeable chunk of the player base. The engine was a mess and horrible to work with, and would break frequently. The bonus is allowing for more detail 😁

[@LEDs]

Yeah, it basically just makes everything better (once all of the bugs are ironed out!)

[@breadmilkYT]

CS fans: NOO! This three pixel gap in the wall is too dark! Enemies are too hard to see! Valve MUST fix this immediately! TF2 fans: ah yes, the enemy can shoot through my spawn in this 17 year old map, splendid, I shall wait patiently for 7 eons for a patch, I love this game

[@Stefano--]

There's still a ton of details, I don't see any problem with these changes.

[@izer0z]

whats the difference on the fountain at 3:44?

[@LEDs]

The water level was lowered to “improve bomb visibility,” according to the patch notes.

[@IInferno]

You tell me man...

[@djblinboy]

I like more minimalistic designs. I think it does have too much details. It feels more like Source 2 grapchics showcase then actual Counter-Strike. Back then Valve did the same thing on Ancient becouse there was too many rock models that was on the floor. Then got update, removed a lot (sure it looked worse) but you got a lot more fps.

[@hmrdev-billnye8166]

Some of these changes are good but others just remove the little details i like about CS maps. Especially now that we have Source 2, the goal is to make the maps look really good and not outdated like Source 1 CS. I like the celler room and balcony change though.

[@gui18bif]

No. No it is not. It's beautiful

[@XradicalD]

On one end I'm not fan of mp maps being sterelized in videogames, on the other hand CS has been doing this for years already. A good example is the classic traffic cone kill in Halo 3, whereas recently in Infinite most props have been removed from maps. Interactive detail can help to mix up gameplay. For CS it allows for players to use the environment in more creative ways, standing on crates, crouching on backgrounds etc. It may feel unfair and it might be, but maybe it's just part of the game to also be aware of your environments too. Pretty sure similar cases have happened irl. Of course, then there are things like hiding in a dark corner never to be seen, which is rather overpowered. I guess for CS it's a bit hard to say, while competitive is a core gameplay of CS, and comp match making was officially added on GO, I think CS wasn't meant to be such originally. But what do I know.

[@LEDs]

I like that argument you bring up of players having to learn their environments. That adds an extra element of complexity to this whole situation

[@XradicalD]

@@LEDs I think players do similar things on all games, be hiding in a corner of a doorframe or standing on top of something. I think the best way to put it is like playing Spy in TF2, taking advantage of the environment to sneak around and surprise enemies. I think it's a matter of how easy is to pull off vs how fair is it. Hiding in a bad lit corner is not the same to be exposed while jumping on top of a box. Hiding in plain sight can be weighted on CS by map asymmetry (easy for CTs but not for TS, etc) bit still a controversial take. At best make geometry and detail a different color I'd think.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

nooooo i cant use weird janky angles that arent fun to fight its too sterile

[@XradicalD]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 People's attention span has been decreasing I see.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@XradicalDso you want me to reread all the dumb noskill shit you just said? no way bro.

[@Zozolio_Zoe]

Hot take: comp games should let you use your surroundings like shadows or props as covers

[@wuketuke6601]

yeah there is potential in that idea. the problem is, that these spots are often an accident. it would be way better if there was a clear intentional spot, where that kind of mechanic is part of the map. additionally, the maps in this game are like 20 years old, so i think this gimmick should only be added to new maps

[@EKSBEntertainment]

The maps should have the original vision and a separate version for pro play plus edits/changes.

[@LEDs]

It would've been really easy to make the seagulls a toggleable option instead of outright removing them.

[@Villager_U]

Valve used to do that and called the competitive version "se" (eg : dust2_se) but they realized that maintaining both versions can be challenging

[@NoCat.]

there was no issue with inferno

[@Iron_Soil]

if they want to see players let them just install config that makes whole map white and players pink

[@dabmasterars]

some props are hidden on lower directx levels

[@hpp676]

Or a white texture pack, so those no life dorks can finally have true competitive experience.

[@ziphy_6471]

If they could they would, but they can't

[@TEK-]

I think those final parts you talk about around 5:12 were more to guide players in the right direction, instead of with regards to visibility. For example, the cubby outside of boiler appeared just large enough to crouch in, when in reality was completely clipped off. It seems that by making the cubby shorter, this eliminates any confusion for newer players who think they can crouch underneath it.

[@Justin-fh2yp]

I think the problem with CSGO 2 is part of why tf2 works well. The CSGO character are using much monotone shades of color, which blends in extremely easily with background that has much more shade in the area, its similar to a camoflage effectiveness in a deeply vegetated area. The right balance to make someone stand out yet not make it feel empty is crucial. So to make sure that it feels like you're in a forest but yet making you spottable is the main goal. Translating that to the map, i think the detail isnt the problem but rather how well the detail hides the player. Since some detail can still let player be easy to spot nonetheless

[@LEDs]

And with TF2, being noticed usually doesn't mean instant annihilation (unless you face a sniper), which is why running around with unusual effects doesn't ruin the experience

[@dinoseen3226]

I don't play CS, and I don't really see a reason to while it's so focused on comp.

[@ziphy_6471]

Big money

[@Enivoke]

I hate when crybabies on Reddit takeover and force valve to change unnecessary stuff to only have them say it was better before and valve is left scratching their head. As a map maker myself, while feedback is appreciated and I am always open to them, I’ve come to realize that most people that provide feedback don’t know anything about maps and I rarely do make changes on feedback.

[@LEDs]

It's ultimately your map and your choice, and there are certain quirks/gimmicks that can be erased if one listens too closely to what others have to say.

[@meo8258]

Changes looks fine to me

[@hannanah8036]

It's not just a competitive, but a spectator sport also

[@ScamSafeShiba]

A chess board is only 8x8 but it provides nearly unlimited possibilities.

[@shawnjackson3764]

All this time I thought that Inferno was Spanish... 😱

[@ExternalDialogue]

I feel the real takeaway here is that artpassing is wasted on competitive games cause comp players dont care at all and would much rather play in the grayboxed level before any artpassing was done.

[@sunlooper]

They need to remove the birds and particles

[@theinnocentxeno]

I’m late to the discussion here but if competitive players solely cared for how a map plays and how well it runs then they’d be playing on untextured maps with bare bones lighting. But that makes for a dreadful experience when viewing tournaments and for casual players where visuals do matter more. The reason why details exist above and out of the level where they don’t affect gameplay is to make the viewing experience better

[@LEDs]

Yup, and Valve keeps removing more and more detail from this map, with the recent update being a huge blow to banana and mid.

[@tilenHD]

cmon people will find anything to blame to not blame their own skill

[@gen2mediainc.577]

isn’t it kind of a feature if you can “hide” in certain spots? Seems like it could just be reducing competitive strategies instead of improving them?

[@LEDs]

That is a valid point

[@hpp676]

It seems like most competitive cs players don't like it when there are hiding spots and would rather the game devolve into reflex based reactions in an environment where the players are easy to see. It's why all the maps are so overly bright, any properly dark areas with actual grit to them are not deemed "competitive"

[@surdukks2219]

Situations where you cant see your opponent clearly, like dark spots, blending in, etc are often unintentional and are left in without thought. This causes these situations to feel like your opponent had an unfair advantage or feel more random because they didn't consciously make a decision based on being hard to see. The problem with dedicated spots on a map is that one-way vision while being able to damage your opponent is too strong of an advantage that isnt fun to fight. And if it was something as simple as a spot on a map, it wouldn't be earned with any real effort, you simply just go there. One-way smokes in CS:GO arent too different from this and were hated for the same reasons. Not much effort, too strong, not fun to fight against. It feels undeserved for someone who plays a lot because they dont really require you to outsmart your opponent or outplay them with your mechanics.

[@hpp676]

@@surdukks2219 Depends on the player. Some people just like to goof around casually. I remember back in the old version of Train, there was a dark corner next to the stairs. Everyone from my team was dead and there were like 5 guys going around in a group searching for me. I stood in the dark spot facing away from the stairs so that my gun wouldn't poke out. Then I heard footsteps, I waited for a bit and poked out of the dark spot. To my surprise it was the entire enemy team in a conga line snooping around trying to find me. Their situational awareness was so bad I managed run up behind them and stab all 5 of them with a knife. Everyone had a laugh about how ridiculous it was. Good times.

[@surdukks2219]

​@@hpp676 Yea I get that having silly or broken maps with cool little spots you can go to is fun, insersion 2 for example was a very fun map. But current 5v5 CS is a competitive mode where you try to win, which means things like that can be frustrating. "casual players" who complain about "sweaty tryhards" often neglect the fact that for the people that try to win, its a very fun game to try your best at and feels very rewarding. But i definitely think competitive maps have so much unexplored potential, most of the current pool is just a variation of a dust2 3lane map. Nuke is a very unique map that breaks the mold, and very fun for both casual and more sweaty players.

[@Iron_Soil]

no, no its not

[@DrHundTF2]

I think these nerd games aka supercompetitives should just have maps consisting of white textures for the walls, grey for the floor, color for team games, and have players be colored hitboxes holding hypredetailed Strange Unusual cherry blossom AWP with gigascope customs. That way no one can complain about visibility and so they can leave the detailing of maps to games that actually need it because they’re not so focused about the competitive aspect and would just put some damn rim lighting on their characters…ahem…

[@richardvlasek2445]

bro out here making source film maker team fortress 2 meme animations and still has the balls to call games other people like "nerd games" lmaoo

[@gui18bif]

A tactical shooter is based on real life scenarios. Real life does not have boards covering up barrels to help with "visibility". They're just a bunch of crybabies blaming a map feature on their bad playing :)

[@DrHundTF2]

@@gui18bif right! either you go realistic (and boy, mouse aim is not realistic) or they go gaming and forget the realistic aspect.

[@xandii4694]

@@gui18bif counter-strike isn't about realism it's a game. Getting shot because you can't see the enemy might be realistic but it's not fun. go play arma if you want "realism".

[@Ongez]

Counter strike being realistic lmao, these people are delusional. Oh yeah, real life scenario 5 x 5 with weapons that take 10 shoots to kill you, that's a real life scenario for you there

[@wifelessyt]

2:40 ?????

[@Deezsirrer]

When will Counter-strike have more than 10 devs working on this series since cs 1.0 beta Is everyone concern

[@theblackcat4941]

In my opinion the detail shouldn't have been removed. I am not 100% on that, for example the wooden panel in Library is fine, but casing the barrel so people can't climb is damaging to gameplay and tactics. Also the rail WAS on CS:GO and nobody actuly cared. I rly think that people are ranting on everything in CS2 just because there is nothing else to rant about. Subtick is fine for gunplay but the >ANIMATIONS< are off. Maps are ok and, unless you're blind and can't see the fifference between dark blue/dark brown and middle gray you should not be the one complaining :/. CS2 is amazing. What I think Valve should focus on is, in this order, Anti-cheat, Matchmaking, removed maps, visual feedback for hitting/missing(for better info's) and subtick animations

[@neutraldalek4222]

I think way Valve's handling changes so far is completely fine. All the changes still make sense in the context of the world and there's no part of the map's design that is only justifiable in a competitive context. If it doesn't undermine the art direction and doesn't look out of place I see no reason to complain about anything that provides a better gameplay experience. Detail for detail's sake doesn't make a game better, but being able to see the guy who's capable of one-shoting you certainly does.

[@1758]

answer: it's not

[@bravodefeated9193]

old players would definitely prefer having less in a map for instance i loved the old csgo inferno

[@LEDs]

Valve continues to remove stuff from the map, the most recent case being an entire building and arch structure

[@user-wh9cn8hi5j]

Tf? Detailed? Most of them damn window r disaligned from both sides, i mean like the outdoor side of a window is small and upper and the inner one is large and lower, same for balconies and lots other stuff that could be fckd up. I mean like did u even notice that there is no gahdamn door leading to those?? Is it some kinda non Euclidian spaces or what?! And same for nuke like there a lot of pipes r disaligned asf i mean once with an yellow valve in the middle and other loads of those "give no shit" from developers all around the game

[@pwf2k]

henlo also obligatory "FIRST!!" edit: nvm I was second :(

[@LEDs]

RIP

[@ziphy_6471]

Hello second

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

people whine about decluttering then also whine about visual noise for some other game

[@gildedshieldproductions6901]

i feel removing these details harm the maps feel. if you remove all of the small details the maps lose the lived in feel that some of them have.

[@xandii4694]

They can add as much details as they want outside the playable space. Yes it's nice that the game looks "good" now but the core of counter-strike is a tactical shooter.

[@Oreoezi]

The desire for Source 2 was for better optimization and netcode. I'd rather be playing 1.6 maps than have water reflections that tank FPS and extinguishing mollies stuttering.

[@LEDs]

Perhaps I'm biased toward aesthetics

[@Oreoezi]

I also like aesthetics, just as long as I get them at little to no performance cost

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

cs entire appeal is that anyone in the eastern block can run that shit

[@ziphy_6471]

My pc would love that

[@KianFloppa]

nice video

[@LEDs]

Thank you!

[@spectre.shadows]

These are good changes imo, makes the map more readable and helps playablity without just removing all detail and compromising the visuals, more doesn't always mean better, also gameplay > visuals for any game imo

[@littleboyred1]

Gameplay > visuals, but also more clutter doesn't mean better visuals. IMO the only odd change to Inferno here was the fountain. Not because the wall is too flat or plain, but because the cubby that replaced the fountain just looks weird to me. I'd rather a mostly flat wall at that point.

[@demogaming8895]

This is exactly why I don't play competitive games. The nitpicking is insane

[@ninomiskulin9286]

I fck hate inferno, cant even play it on my pc

[@WonderlandWarGaming]

Hey LED, You should refrain from deleting comments that point out you using Wolfcl0ck's footage at 0:34 without his permission. Instead, you should record your own footage or get footage from someone else (make sure you have their permission this time!)

[@M.F.Hafizhan]

Eh, seems like fair use to me

[@WonderlandWarGaming]

​@@M.F.Hafizhan You missed the point, it's not about legality, using someone else's work without crediting or giving permission is quite distasteful. It's even worse that LED deleted Wolfcl0ck's comment and blocked him so he couldn't speak about it.

[@LEDs]

I used one second of his footage, and it falls under fair use. I would've credited him if he asked nicely, but he decided not to do that, and instead left a very hateful comment both here and on Steam. I will not tolerate that kind of behavior on my channel.

[@RememberCitadel]

@@LEDs Why not take the footage out then?

[@WonderlandWarGaming]

@@LEDs Refer to my reply to M.F.Hafizhan. Whether someone asks nicely or not doesn't determine whether you give that person credit or get their permission to use their work. The comment wasn't hateful either, it was aggressive and he did come across as angry, sure, but he was justified because it was his work. Wolfcl0ck is the type of person who hates it when you use his work without permission, that's how he is and you should respect that. You deleting his comment was a not a good look because it makes it look like you're trying to hide something. What was even the point of that, actually?

[@Kacper42PL]

As someone who's too much of s perfectionist and loves some high quality detailing I see this as a stupid argument:c

[@bobmar2106]

No

[@TheOblomoff]

Less is more. But - you could go valorant's route of removing all details away from sight lines. And that would make stuff boring quickly. There should be details in sightlines, but they shouldn't be super hard to see like those before barrels. And could be not in frequent areas.

[@hamaczech13]

If Valve likes detailed maps, why don't they make more singleplayer games?😢

[@LEDs]

😢

[@thestratposter3515]

.

[@ziphy_6471]

I reached the first comment

[@KajenIII]

This is why competitive games are for terrible

[@bananaboy482]

God forbid someone have fun in a competitive game

[@CornG4397]

Being able to reduce your visibility should be part of pro play imo

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

yes because fighting someone you cant see is fun

[@jimjellyjinjamjimbo]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413It makes rushing way more stupid. It requires you to take every turn, corner, room and sight line seriously due to an increased risk of the enemy seeing you before you see them.

[@hpp676]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Skill issue, coordinate with your team and use a flash/smoke on areas where players can camp. Oh wait, I forgot you're only good at aiming fast on easy to see targets and nothing more.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@hpp676 >smoke and flash every corner on the map because you might get one tapped otherwise do you really

[@hpp676]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 You might get one tapped regardless of the corner. If the corner sucks you adapt. But this is CS we're talking about, people have been playing the same handful of maps for over a decade now and can't fathom learning new strategies.

[@soulshard7229]

The revision to maps because "player visibility" sounds like a skill issue.

[@Fooxey]

I know I'm late, but. For people with ADHD, its easy to get distracted by virtually any detail.

[@thing4826]

I agree with this video. The Library and Balcony changes are perfect as no detail was lost but it enhanced the gameplay, where shrinkage of the inlets (for a lack of better words) only serves to remove/decrease detail while not noticeably increasing gameplay.

[@LEDs]

I feel like the "issue" with the spot by Banana was that the backdrop was too dark, so maybe they could've just added a light to reduce the contrast instead of shrinking it

[@Jordanimate]

like ppl say, if you let competitive players decide how a map looks, it would be devoid of all personality in the name of "balance"

[@LEDs]

That's why we must find the proper balance

[@Mr.SpicyIce]

@@LEDs The words "proper balance" reminds me of the topic of fair use and what it actually means. Jeez man.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

unknowledgeable tf2 fan complains about how the biggest competitive fps tries to be competitive in other words, the sky is blue

[@tehjamerz]

They shouldn't call the game CS, it is something else. Or admit it's still in beta I hope for their success either way

[@johnhighway7399]

Meta slaves trying not to ruin the fun for everybody else challenge: (Impossible)

[@user-un5xj1wl6p]

I think we should return to the SE versions just more extreme... a devbox/1.6 style map and an artistic casual version...

[@ruzgar1372]

I feel like the complaints about Valve's changes are a bit overblown. Most of these details still look fine and nice.

[@user-vu8fm5vb4n]

"omg this map is so bad terrorist in that position is literally invisible" Sounds like skill issue to me

[@sunlooper]

Who tf is immersed in Counter Strike

[@redacted8220]

I am still mad they removed csgo from my hard drive and made access to it way harder, hence effectively breaking and killing one of the best games I honestly cannot understand why big companies act like that: valve killing csgo and tf2, google trying to kill youtube, mojang trying to kill minecraft I really don't want internet to devolve like this

[@gimok2k5]

In an interview not too long ago, Valve actually explained why: Because they knew the CS community is too stubborn and wouldn't bother trying CS2 too much. So, the only way to get them to play it is to force them to. And CS2 overall is supposed to end up being an overall update to CSGO so either way you'd end up with this. As for TF2, they're not trying to kill it, they just stopped bothering to support it. And given it went on for over a decade before the final proper update being the Jungle Inferno one, that's still FAR longer than most games get.

[@richardvlasek2445]

@@gimok2k5 yeah some people would want to continue playing the game they like instead of a barely functioning replacement and valve can't have that because it would drop the skin market and gambling revenue imagine thinking this is a good argument

[@redacted8220]

​@@gimok2k5 I get it, but that is such a lame excuse to push out an objectively inferior in almost every way product cs2 being so bad really doesn't help with the players being stubborn, does it? all the commonly mentioned reasons aside, I personally really enjoyed community servers, but they were barely alive(browser being spammed, good servers almost empty) after lockdown due to neglect from valve for decades cs2 is the nail in the coffin for them as for tf2, that is true and the game is full of content(hard to add more things that would fit, but not yet impossible), but there is still a lot devs should do and reapetedly mismange it

[@gimok2k5]

@@richardvlasek2445 Knowing the CS community: It is. Because I am 100% they would not touch CS2 for several YEARS simply because it's not CSGO. And considering how pissy some people act shows that Valve did the correct thing because all those people wouldn't play CS2 at all.

[@cybercheese3]

It's cos they knew cs2 wasn't good enough to get players to leave csgo. They blame the players but I blame the game and content.

[@vatyunga]

It's sad and I can't stand people like Eddie Viri

[@DaRealBruner]

No, it's perfect. Details shouldn't have to be sacrificed so sweaty tryhard competitive players get an extra 2 fps.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

my whigga thats the entirety of cs

[@BreadTeleporter1968]

I hate counter strike competitive players. Change all the textures to grey boxes aside from the characters then you have true competitive for them.

[@myboyfriend95]

Csgo comp cry babies are never happy

[@mrcharlie3039]

The features that valve thinks are too detailed for a competitive gameplay should’ve been applied only to Premier modes imo. They were really cool until tryhards who cant enjoy a game like a normal person responded with negative feedbacks. Im not saying that I disagree with all the changes, some changes like the bar that they removed on Inferno B site is acceptable, but others like the flying pigeons (idk if thats correct lol) in the sky in Inferno, and the leaves falling in Overpass was really frowning to hear that they removed it. Anyways great video, keep it up! 🙌🔥

[@Nick-ij5nt]

If someone genuinely cares about immersion in CS then they should go play a different game. Valve could replace every single map with a dev graybox version and I would not care in the slightest. Of course they would never do that because of player count and viewership reasons, but for me personally I wouldn't care.

[@xandii4694]

most people wouldn't care, the gameplay loop is what's important and the graphics are just sugar on top. just look at the best-selling video game of all time minecraft

[@Nick-ij5nt]

@@xandii4694 I disagree, I think most experienced players wouldn't care but a lot of casual players would stop playing. Little Jimmy that plays an hour a week probably wouldn't like staring at gray walls.

[@Yes-jw8cp]

based jimmy

[@Nick-ij5nt]

@@Yes-jw8cp No.

[@ziphy_6471]

@@Nick-ij5nt My pc would love if the graphics on CS2 were like CS 1.6

[@CaptainHarris-ip2kg]

I like more art in maps. I don't game anymore, but I played both alpha and beta versions of original CS, and those maps were bleak, barren, and just plain ugly. Details are good, but they need to be functional and make sense.

[@vraisairs9201]

I disagree. Keep the clutter. But I’m not a pro gamer so I don’t really care about player visibility due to clutter. They just made these maps uglier and less fun to play in

[@littleboyred1]

I disagree with this. Nobody seems to understand the accessibility angle on this. (Or they just refuse to.) I'm autistic and personally struggle with modern games, casual or not, due to excessive detail. Not just stuff directly obscuring things, but clutter surrounding objects can make it harder to see. I can hold my own to some extent against, as an example, unreasonably hard modded Hollow Knight bosses like Any Radiance once you remove the visual clutter through mods, but struggle with even vanilla content due to all the particle effects, glowing, etc in that game. I'll get hit by slow, "obvious" things or lose track of myself because i effectively go partially blind when my brain can't interpret visually chaotic segments of the screen. It's frustrating and disheartening seeing everyone tossing negativity towards these changes that i wish every game would do, while insulting dismissing people who asked for it.

[@ziphy_6471]

@@littleboyred1 Play tf2 it doesn't have clutter and has a distinctive color palette

[@littleboyred1]

@@ziphy_6471 Lost interest in that game over time but yeah for the most part it's got very good visibility.