IS GOTH GATEKEEPING GOING TOO FAR? - Posers vs Actual Goths

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Watch this video if you want to know what is and isn't actually goth: • THINGS THAT ARE *NOT* ...
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[@JayneGoth]

Hi my loves! Before posting any negative comments, please watch the entire video first, for more context! Thank you for watching :) ♥

[@blackcatfullmoon]

Never experienced this from other Goths but rather people who aren't involved in our subculture too many times. Been called emo and not Goth because I like emo too. My ex BF said I was barely Goth and dude didn't listen to any of the music, he hated it and denied its importantance to Goth. And other idiotic shit like that. 🙄

[@GothicTeaVea]

The bare minimum is to be a fan of the music.

[@derekcahill]

Interesting video, I always thought Goth was purely an aesthetic theme for fashion and art rather than a community thing so I learned a lot. Would be cool to see a video of your opinion on popular goth characters in media (Wednesday, Sam Manson, Lydia Deetz, ect). congrats on 1k!💀

[@JayneGoth]

Thanks! That’s a cool video idea :) I will consider that. And yeah, goth is much more than just aesthetics, glad I taught something new today 😊

[@Chill-mm4pn]

Kudos to you for seeking knowledge about Goth. I like seeing people learn about the scene.🖤

[@derekcahill]

@@Chill-mm4pn I appreciate the Goth scene🖤

[@Gothymothmoth]

the "not goth music' on tt/ista reals makes people worry about people just using the tag for bait or views and then we get some people coming in thinking that emo song is goth......it's like saying you like Mexican food while showing sushi :/ the horror thing: liking horror comes from Dracula (bela lugosi's as Drac) bela lugosi's dead By bauhaus is what some say started goth... when It's Black Friday is doing a documentary on Goth and what Goth IS/it's history that will be were ill be telling people to go, Goth has such a rich history, it's not for everyone and while you can call yourself a goth it helps to be goth

[@Donn-oo1jq]

We love you Jayne ❤️

[@JayneGoth]

♥♥

[@julians9070]

Jayne, your talkt on this KZbin video deserves an A+✅ The Goth subculture does not need absurd gatekeepers. and Goth elitists. Sadly some of us notice gatekeepers and elitists in mainstream society and crass commercialist culture. Let's hope more younger people listen to you. Goth is about music, mindset, and the fashion is just an addition. Goth is an encouragement to be cultured and well versed in many topics. It is better to become well versed in the Goth subculture. Delve into Goth deeper and there will be no time to be a poser. May you receive many positive comments from viewers of your channel.

[@JayneGoth]

Thanks so much! I appreciate your support

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@JayneGoth I’m starting to like you even more ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@JayneGoth]

@@JordanS-ww4eu ❤️❤️

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@JayneGoth I think you like me do you

[@Chloe_L999]

The one thing i hate more then haters is gatekeepers, like they're is no need. Different people can have different styles and still be in a sub-culture. And yeah I do agree with what you said about ignoring them, probably the best thing to do.

[@MaydenBushell]

I think politics involved are also a big part of the gothic movement which i appreciate because i align with those values but in my head i just call myself a moth (metalhead goth) because i am a mixture of both !

[@Chill-mm4pn]

💯A subculture which provides a safe space for different groups of people is typically going to push back against anything that is conservative as those beliefs are not aligned with where the scene is at today. People talk about older people who were around who have such beliefs. It's like yeah, they're a product of their time and upbringing so that's not a reflection of the younger, fresh, blood in the scene today. Political landscape is different these days as opposed to the late 70s hell even the 90s. More people have a voice and more people are exposed to the lives of others so they see a person's humanity. Also people learning critical thinking skills. I'm 38 and I'm glad to see the youth being more outspoken.🖤

[@Thyrmine]

Really love the message here. There are SO many different kinds of goth that anyone saying "you're not goth" or "you're not goth enough" is silly and gross. Same with music. Thanks for fighting for all our baby bats out there! 🖤🖤🖤

[@ckblackwoodmusic]

We love YOU; before too long, you'll be at a million subscribers!

[@JayneGoth]

♥♥ Hahaha, don't think I will ever get there but thanks, love!

[@julians9070]

​@@JayneGoth You will be delighted when you reach a million subscribers.

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@JayneGoth just believe you can

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@JayneGoth you like me don’t you

[@Gothymothmoth]

As long as you like some of the music (and can tell the difference between the music and say emo, and punk I'm done with people saying evanesce or type O negative is goth....) the fashion needs to be it's own thing/subculture at this point lol.....But saying that would get you called a 'gatekeeper' if you wanna be goth like goth stuff but if you only like emo or metal go like them (and do that all while being goth) alot of goths can name at least 3 bands because they listen to those bands

[@zoedelormes]

I actually love when people tell me I’m not goth enough, it makes me laugh: I don’t only wear black, my nails are always painted pink, my room is white and pink, dress incredibly casual, my makeup is very toned down, no piercings or tattoos, don’t rlly enjoy the most popular goth bands (bauhaus, the cure, Depeche Mode etc) and generally very happy and bubbly. It doesn’t bother me because I’m genuinely the happiest I’ve ever been in life listening to goth music and expressing myself

[@fhuuraliulfr5756]

As I have gotten older, I just wear whatever, but still listen to my black metal and goth music, sometimes dressing a little edgier if the mood strikes.

[@Chill-mm4pn]

I always give new goths more recent band suggestions. Us millennials were born in the 80s so it was easier to listen to 80s bands because we grew up hearing that type of production. Gen Z may be out off by older bands because the sound is dated. I personally listen to newer bands like Selofan, Lebanon Hanover, Kaelan Mikla, Secret Shame, She Past Away, Bat Nouveau, Twin Tribes. Also like Death Rock bands like Tears For The Dying and Virgin In Veil. Most people would probably like the bands I listed. I recommend mostly Darkwave because it's what I like and it's easier to get into. I wear black clothes at my job and dress to the nines at the monthly Goth Night or if I'm off that day and just want to. Otherwise my work attire is black jeans, black v-neck, black Carolina logger boots.

[@DansBLACKFLAG]

​@Chill-mm4pn If you love Deathrock you should check out Glenn Danzig's second major band, Samhain.

[@emmanuelskywalkers9272]

@JayneGoth . I heard this a lot Gatekeeper. I haven't been judged ever Goth before, I heard some of my friends happened to then. I been part of Toronto Goth scene since late 1980s, that's when Goth subculture scene started. I always want everyone feel welcome all time. I been dressing Victorian Goth since Goth Subculture started 1980s in Toronto.

[@JayneGoth]

Wow, it’s so cool that you’ve been goth for such a long time, since the start even. I’m always glad to hear the OG goths say that everyone is welcome! 🖤

[@BlackPyramid111]

Life is dark, life is sad, all is not well, and most people you meet will try to hurt you.

[@fhuuraliulfr5756]

There's always gonna be gatekeepers calling people posers (or poseurs if they wanna be tools) when it comes to subcultures, it's annoying. I remember in middle school all the goth kids acting like I wasn't dressed up enough to be goth or a "freak" (what we called the particular groups of goth/alt kids in my area). For one, my mom didn't like me dressing that way, and for two goth clothing was expensive and my parents just couldn't justify spending so much on clothes they hated me wearing lol. However, I found my ways to dress as "alt" as I could with what I had or found. This is what made kids think I was a poser. So let me get this straight, kids from my past, that because my parents didn't go to Hot Topic or whatever online goth store to buy VERY expensive GOTH SPECIFIC clothing, I wasn't goth/alt enough. Putting together pieces of what I had and the little bit my mom would let me buy that was from the thrift store to put together what I could...at least I was trying. For what it's worth, I thought (in my mind and kept to myself) they were kinda poser-ish for wearing such elaborately obvious, perfectly curated goth outfits from whatever mall store or online store. It's all about the music, anyway. /dumb rant over edit to add: Sorry for all the angst in my comment, it's more so me channeling that angst I felt 25+ years ago first starting out with trying gothic style and being teased over my style of dress not being good enough or elaborate enough.

[@JayneGoth]

This is very relatable to me. I was never allowed to dress super goth as a kid, and therefore it was kind of hard to “show” that I was a real goth. No one saw me as an alt kid because I never wore the typical goth clothes. I always tried to wear only the black clothes that I owned, which was seen as goth by the non-goths, but it was not seen as goth enough to the actual goths. It’s ridiculous

[@annalen6936]

I actually was very insecure because of some gatekeepers.Sadly this video posted when I passed this annoying thing.But Im really glad that you are here for other Goths and babybats

[@LouciferFlump]

Gatekeepers have a deep internal sadness, judgy people need to work on themselves and stop criticising. You feel Goth, you are Goth!! 🖤

[@Mackem6868]

Subbed to your fantastic channel! ❤

[@JayneGoth]

Thank you, welcome to the channel! 🖤

[@Mackem6868]

@@JayneGoth thank youxxx

[@carke6540]

Jane fights for our rights, Jane for president. Congratulations on 1000 subs🖤🖤

[@JayneGoth]

Haha! Thank you! 🖤💪

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

@@JayneGoth you’re my best friend

[@Thewitchofwildlife]

It's important to speak out against elitism and reassure those who may be unaware that they're valid. 👏🏽

[@reggiepoison]

A good point on how many people think goths should behave stereotypically cynical I remember seeing a post where Daria from the self-titled series was claimed to be goth just coz she's cynical (she has nothing to do with goth music or fashion or even being morbid and all if I know correctly) Like literally she's just a witty introverted nerd who's also cynical but what does it have to do with goths? She's also never claimed to be one so I don't really get going overboard with calling goth smb who clearly isn't and doesn't wanna be and at the same time fake-claiming actual goths...

[@Chill-mm4pn]

I feel that first impressions are usually all people focus on when it comes to social media. Especially given that there is so much misrepresentation in regards to the scene. For example, someone might have made a tiktok showing an outfit they put together with maybe Selofan or Twin Tribes playing in the background. But a person may only see the one video where the other person is listening to Rap or Metal. So that they have a knee jerk reaction. Probably due to seeing lots of other videos being made by people who only see goth as an outfit. So they assume the tiktok channel doesn't know or care about the music, the scene and the lifestyle that comprises all of that.

[@MisstressMourtisha]

Subbed

[@freakygoblin3068]

I would be interested in knowing this, is this mainly a female thing or does it also happen to men? To the baby bats, remember that "goth" is simply a label. The only real thing that matters is the people you meet and make friends with.

[@LouciferFlump]

I absolutely detest Goth Gatekeepers! I have found that it mostly happens with silly people online. In real life, the same people wouldn’t dare be so rude or judgemental to your face!! Goths in the 80s didn’t Gate Keep!! I’m in my 50s now and I honestly feel I was born Goth as I was always darkly inclined since maybe the age of 8 or 9, I would say. I say *everyone* is welcome, I don’t care what you wear, what you listen to, anything goes! If you feel darkly inclined and drawn to Goth, then you *are* Goth🖤🕸️🕷️🦉🧛🏻‍♀️

[@KissaLintu]

I was goth af as a teenager. But my favorite band wasn’t goth, and I was so anxious and scared to engage with the goth community because I knew they would judge me as a poser. So I decided not to label myself as goth, I was just me. My outfit wasn’t goth anyways, I described my fashion as a witch apprentice 😅 then I experimented with steampunk, so I never truly embraced goth fashion, not until recently. Still, I was listening very niche deathrock bands as young as 14 years old. Now I can’t care less about that, I’m over 30 and I accept my gothness proudly. No one can call me poser after being two decades into goth music and gothic aesthetic. I hate the word “poser”, I’m all into protecting goth spaces and gatekeeping the limits of what’s goth and what is not, but we should educate and share information instead of labeling someone as a poser if they show an interest in our subculture.

[@JayneGoth]

Well spoken! 🖤

[@cultg329]

Love ur look❤‍🔥

[@JayneGoth]

Thank you!

[@silverbats]

I had to laugh wen u said u should know how many times they go to the toilet!🦇🦇🦇

[@robertpetre9378]

A goth is a person who listens to goth rock and the other genres in the subculture that’s it all of the drama is really ridiculous because it’s about expressing a love of the music 🎵 and the subculture and not about scoring points against insecure people.

[@BlackPyramid111]

I witnessed the genesis of the Goth culture way back when. I wanted to be part but work got in the way. I'm much older now and not so much worried about the work part BUT way too old to B a goth. I've combined with Goth style with elements of steampunk, lord of the rings AND a post apocalyptic world. My music of choice nowadays is dungeon synth. YOU BEE CAREFUL, don't go out alone. People HATE the Goth culture. I've heard them talk publicly about their hate. It's NO secret. Always carry a shank and learn how to use it. Be prepared to defend yourself. It's a bad world, please LLAP l wish you well

[@egghgh69]

Hii i have a question :D! Is it alright to dress goth but be punk? I do listen to goth bands like the cure, siouxie and the banshees, and a bit of joy division but at the same time i listen to lots of punk bands like MCR, green day, sex pistols etc. I mostly associate myself with being punk because of its ideologies and music but at the same time i really love goth fashion and its subculture as well, im just wondering if it would be appropriate for me to dress goth even if im not actively associated with it-

[@JayneGoth]

Anyone can dress goth! If you love the fashion, then go for it. You can dress goth and not be an actual goth, if that is how you want to express yourself. My friend, who listens to rock but not goth music, also dresses goth occasionally. There might be people who mistake you for a goth because of it, or there might be goths who try and gatekeep the style. But I think it's okay for a punk to dress goth. The goth fashion is so beautiful and unique, and I think it's a big compliment to the goths if someone wants to look that way. It's your lifestyle and your music style (and obviously your own preferences) that say what subculture you belong most to. The fashion is just something extra. Dress how you want, no one can decide for you how you should express yourself, except for you. Hope this helps! ♥

[@egghgh69]

​@@JayneGoth tysm!!

[@gremlynslemyns]

you can dress how you want! if you like punk though you could try listening to some deathrock, it's a subgenre of goth with a lot of punk elements. I recommend mystic priestess, tears for the dying, march violets, and alien sex fiend

[@asuka_the_void_witch]

i think gothness is just a theseus ship. if it's just about the music, does it count if someone listens to 1 goth artist, and 3535 artists of other genres? if no, then we're back into gatekeeping territory right away. like, i listen to a lot of ska punk but i never once called myself a skahead or whatever. but i probably ... am? at the end of the day it's possible that it just comes down to self ID. oh and what if someone dresses goth all the time and doesnt listen to goth music? why cant they be goth? if they cant be goth, then we need a name for that aesthetic, in the same vein as like gorpcore.

[@Spooky-Something]

There is, actually! Just as you would call Frankenstein a piece of "Gothic literature", the fashion and aesthetic is called "Gothic", rather than just "Goth". Gothic is a descriptor and the aesthetic, whild Goth is the musical genre. If you dress in that specific manner, rather than labeling yourself "Goth", you'd say "Gothic". I'm a baby bat myself, so I'm not entirely sure if I'm 100% correct (do tell me if I'm wrong), though, before I got into the scene, I'd often describe myself as "Gothic", as I found myself fond of the literature, architecture, general aesthetic, and tended to gravitate towards that style, rather than "Goth", as I didn't listen to that musical genre. As for your first point, I would say if you listen to Goth, even if it's just one artist, keep yourself aware of the other goth artists and the culture around the genre, you can be allowed to wear the title; so long as you know your place in the community, and understand your not nearly as well versed as others. I personally didn't use the label up until recently, as I felt to call myself a goth while merely listening to a single artist felt a bit wrong, though, that's preference. After all, Goth is just that, a label, a descriptor for a genre of music, just as Gothic is a descriptor in a more general sense, and so, it shouldn't be a suffocating thing that defines and controls someone. I feel comfortable to say I'm a Goth (as mentioned, a newcomer), now, though, I'm sure others wouldn't, and that's okay. I don't know if this makes any sense lol, but I hope this helps clarify at least a little on what I know and believe (and, again, if I'm wrong, correct me please!).

[@asuka_the_void_witch]

@@Spooky-Something well i have these discussions now and then and it never "makes sense", there are too many opinions, which annoys me, but it is interesting! i've seen everything from "goth is a mindset" to "only listen to new wave and post punk and dress trad goth or you aint goth". i dont think calling the aesthetic "gothic" would be correct since it's very closely related to goth (or emulating it) . gothic literature and architecture are 150+ years old and comes from a different etymological lineage (i think?????.) anyways, i appreciate the reply, i think "know your place in the community" sounds like a good rule of thumb, actually. i dont know why goth culture interests me so much, i have too many musical tastes to just concentrate on goth.

[@aotctd]

The first Imitators were in the 90s So errrm ? lol

[@Feenix102]

Hmm, interesting. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s mainly a music subculture. The mindset, for me, is what attracted me to it - the freedom of it, the lack of judgement that it represents is very attractive. Would someone look at me and recognise me as a goth? Probably not, but for me its not about how I look, really. Personally, and this is just a personal thing, I do wish that I was the right shape to be able to wear the fashion the way I would like to - I absolutely love the neo Victorian look, but I don’t necessarily feel comfortable in some of it (I’m around 5’10 and stocky, hardly your typical goth shape). I know you don’t have to do the fashion thing, but its just something I would like to be able to do. I suppose I could, but I don’t know that it suits me particularly. Would I call myself goth? I don’t know, honestly. I guess I would have the “right” to because I like goth music, but I’m a little wary of definitions like that - there are many elements to a person and I think that, for some people, if they say they are one thing they feel that they can't be anything else and I think that can have a negative effect on them or sometimes on how other people see them. Goth is certainly a part of who I am though, and it’s a part that I like a great deal. I also think that its important for people to know that if you go through a goth phase and then abandon it there is nothing wrong with that - its perfectly possible to identify with a subculture for a period of time and then change, and people shouldn't feel bad about that. Hope all is well hon. :)

[@JayneGoth]

That’s a really interesting view on it all. I honestly think goth clothes would suit you well, I think goth clothes can look good on any body type! There are many different goth styles so I bet there is one that would suit you, at least if you’re into the style. Also, I think goth is just a label people can put on themselves if they like. I call myself goth to show that I’m proud of my lifestyle and my music and all that. Not everyone who is into goth things has to call themselves goth, so I think you explained that very well. Thanks for your comment! ❤️

[@Feenix102]

@@JayneGoth Thankyou, you're always welcome. Yeah, I mean I have some bits and pieces of goth clothing - part of the issue is finding the size, I guess. And of course there's usually quite a bit of metal involved, which doesn't go too well with MRIs - I have one on Saturday of this coming week. :)

[@JayneGoth]

@@Feenix102 good luck with the MRI!

[@Feenix102]

@@JayneGoth Thankyou, hon. :)

[@bobcabot]

..." what doesnt kill you makes you stronger" Nietzsche. ( sinngemäß ! )

[@DizzyD1693]

It’s o so annoying I say lave people da hell alone and Goths who gate keep makes us ‘normal’ goths look horrible 🦇🖤❤️🖤❤️🖤🦇🦇

[@SuperMilitantAtheist]

"goth elitists, gate keepers, you're not goth enough, you're not a real goth, because of whatever reason you can think of" "i will be explaining to you what you have to do to be goth" "it's about beeing yourself" i always hear stuff like this, then people turn around "you can't be conservative and goth" when theirs lots of conservative goths, they just don't talk about it because they will get attacked for it, whenever a leftists hears the word "conservative" they automatically think "alt right white supremacist fundimentalist nazi kkk christian", most of the conservative goths are old people who were around when the whole thing started or shortly after, i'm in a facebook group where even younger goths join and say they're happy to find a place where theirs more conservative goths because they wouldn't dare tell their friends because of how all the leftist commies have taken over the whole thing

[@thiscorrosion3843]

Goth is a MUSIC based subculture. If you favor Goth music, that is what makes you a Goth. It's not that hard...

[@SuperMilitantAtheist]

​@@thiscorrosion3843 where did i say it wasn't? you didn't actually read what i said did you?

[@KissaLintu]

I think the issue is that both concepts are kind of contradictory. The core of goth subculture and its music is non conformist, many of the lyrics are a satire of the society and the status quo, and those that are not, are allusions to gothic themes such as monsters, spookyness, death and dark stuff like that. You have to consider the very term goth comes from the gothic art and literature from the Romanticism era, which is known for embracing the monster's pov and character complexity (think of the phantom of the opera, or the outsider by Lovecraft or, most notably, Frankenstein). This resonates with minorities of all kind, and subcultures ARE some sort of minority, we suffer discrimination and violence. Conservatism has been, for ages, the ideology that protects the status quo, they protect what they know and reject anything different than them, which, in many cases IS good, but it also leads to discrimination and hate crimes when their circles collide with others. Goth subculture is and should be a space that respects and accepts any type of people, queers, nerds, races, etc, that includes political beliefs, as long as those also are accepting of these outcast that find refuge in the goth community. So yeah, having conservative people within the goth subculture it’s like having wolves in disguise. Sure, you can separate both things and still be goth, engage with the subculture without doing any harm, and keep being conservative, it is possible and, personally, I support diversity of opinions, it helps us grow as a society. It icks me how some extreme leftist try to make goth a political thing, because it is not, but it’s also true that conservatism ideology is opposite to the goth subculture. In my opinion, I wouldn’t say I’m a “conservative goth” because it doesn’t make sense, instead I’d say “I’m goth, with conservative inclination”, or smth like that. Still, it’s a sensitive matter, just keep in mind that goth is a counterculture. I hope that helps.

[@thedirtybubble9613]

Hello beautiful face and eyes.

[@Elitatheelitist]

NO GATEKEEPING ISNT GOING FAR ENOUGH

[@kratos4-2-04]

Sounds like you're part of the problem. Sounds like you need to be GateKept as well. Only posers Gatekeep people. The posers are the ones who identify as something else to violate children as a different gender. That community turned my Birthday into one of the worst holidays ever. nobody calls them a posers. Loose your ego and start calling the right people. Look in the mirror and you will see a posers staring back at you.