Is It Possible To Fix Gaming Toxicity?

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If you've played any online game ever, chances are you've run into some form of toxicity. From BM, to name calling to the old classic teabagging, meanness and vitriol in games comes in a variety of forms. For years game developers have tried to fix this problem to... mixed results - what gives?
It turns out, video game toxicity is less of a systems problem and more of a communication problem - by removing barriers to effective communication, and rewarding people for not being dicks, we can go some way to fixing this eternal gaming problem.
The Architect is going to need to drop into the outlands, take a stroll around Azeroth and journey to the top of one of gaming's best mountains - all to learn the best ways to be nice... or something.
That Core-A Video: • Analysis: Taunting and...
This Game Changed My Life: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p087...
You Saw:
Hearthstone (2014)
Unrailed! (Early Access)
Rocket League (2015)
Halo Master Chief Collection (2019)
Dark Nights with Poe and Monroe (2020)
Eternal Card Game (2016)
World Of Warcraft (2004)
Breath of the Wild (2017)
Disco Elysium (2019)
Apex Legends (2019)
Dark Souls 3 (2016)
Dark Souls 2 (2014)
Runescape (2004)
Dota 2 (2013)
Dark Souls 1 (2012)
Minecraft (2009)
Cities Skylines (2015)
Deep Rock Galactic (2020)
Magicka (2011)
Street Fighter 5 (2016)
Valorant (2020)
Starcraft 2 (2012)
Tribes Ascend (2012)
Total War Warhammer 2 (2017)
The Cycle (2019)
Magic The Gathering Arena (2018)
Hypnospace Outlaw (2019)
Final Fantasy 14 (2013)
Bayonetta 2 (2014)
Gwent (2016)
Fortnite (Early Access???? Techically????)
Journey (2012)
Last of Us 2 (2020)
Undertale (2015)
Verlet Swing (2018)

[@ArchitectofGames]

NOOB CYKA BLYAT, FOLLOW ON TWITTER OR I FEED, OK????: twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot Literally uninstall every game you own, you scrublord, it'll give you more time to support the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames

[@GerackSerack]

There's a big problem with voice chat that wasn't mentioned: not everyone is a native English speaker. In fact, most of us aren't. Even if your comfortable writing, reading and listening to English, you may still feel incredibly uneasy speaking it, which discourages many players from using voice chat, even if they do speak English decently and are perfectly comfortable communicating with text.

[@kai141093]

how can you make a video condemning toxic gaming culture and then do pewdiepie that dirty (2:07)? Yeah the dude fucked up three years ago and people never grow tired of bringing it up again and again. never letting anything go is just as toxic as emote spamming and tea bagging in my opinion.

[@LolDongs69]

Toxic? That's a serious red flag dude. Competitive gaming has ALWAYS been about one side having fun at the expense of the other side. Winners get their fun from others losing. It's not going to be any less toxic with a bunch of SJWs speech policing everyone, you're just replacing one "problem" with another. Both trolls and SJWs have more fun at the direct expense of others.

[@cavemann_]

@@kai141093 You are projecting. He wasn't condemning Pewds, he was using that event as an example, he even joked about with "nincompoop" thing.

[@Im-the-greatest]

1v1 me bro

[@Victoriai-y2m]

How to express friendliness in videogames: Step 1: run up to them Step 2: crouch repeatedly

[@jamiemccreath3959]

I think people should do this irl

[@Victoriai-y2m]

@@jamiemccreath3959 if only my thighs were that powerful, I would

[@DarkThagan]

@@Victoriai-y2m With enough practice they will be! And you'll have a nice ass to show off too.

[@HosKaetan]

@@Victoriai-y2m you can do it friend, 3 months ago I couldn't fast crouch more than 4 or 5 times, clearly too weak of a friendliness display for it to work irl Now, after months of some light/medium full body strength training, I can crouch just like a Quake character and made many friends It's always time to start self improvement and achieve your goals!!!

[@LighterST]

@@HosKaetan can you bunny hop though?

[@BoatSniper49]

My favorite moments are when players find a strange bug or glitch in a competitive game and stop fighting each other to marvel at it for a minute.

[@dilloncollins1907]

Or in TF2, where if one person is AFK sometimes everyone on both teams will work together to slowly push them off-map.

[@Boomblox5896]

Actually, in TF2 this sort of Glitch-marvelling happens a lot when engineers find ways to get out of the map, either on top or on bottom of the boundary box.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

*friend clips halfway through floor* *everyone looks at surfing torso*

[@keevano7873]

Like how in apex legends people would punch a loot crate 50 times and the crate will launch then across the map

[@Slender_Man_186]

I did this in Halo MCC of all places, in the lead up to the GRD helmet finally being added to Reach, something that was teased 10 years ago, I would constantly activate the Easter eggs that would spawn a doll with the helmet on. And again, these Easter eggs were 10 years old, so most of the people playing didn’t even know about them, so they’d actually be surprised and stop fighting.

[@erichobbs4042]

I find that the most effective way of removing toxicity from games is simply to never engage with online games. It's a 100% effective strategy.

[@peacefusion]

or online chats. just ad block people in general.

[@DrPizzle]

Nothing is more satisfying then when someone suddenly stops tbagging you and you know it’s because the sticky keys prompt interrupted them

[@mikahraptor8849]

Or when you watch them get flanked because they were distracted, in the post death spectate.

[@elliotwillming8348]

Fun Fact: You can still use the 'Sorry' emote in Hearthstone, you need to use Mayor Noggenfogger, which make all targets be chosen at random (including emotes) to use it.

[@ArchitectofGames]

I didn't know this!

[@Ejodai]

It also means that every new hero (portrait) have a “sorry” emote even if this is the only way to “use” it.

[@DualClassic64]

The way you described Journey was completly different from how i interpreted the game. I ended up playing with 4 different people and during the "underwater" part and the final climb i was completly alone. To me it was less me and my partner climbing a mountain and more that plenty of lone travelers are making their way up the mountain and from time to time they cross paths and then get sepperated. Allthough our unique experiences really just show how magical this game is.

[@landis9767]

right? my first time through the game i played if offline cause i wanted to take my time exploring, and i loved it all the same

[@dlf7789]

I played the entire game with the same person from start to end, I gotta say I was extremely lucky and it made one of my most memorable and emotional experiences in gaming.

[@pretentiosaurus]

my experience had an on and off multiplayer aspect to it i had friends sometimes and i was kind of a lone wolf at times even if there was another person around the first time i met someone i was trying to jump past an invisible wall only to hear someone calling out to me from a distance and one of the most notable moments where i was alone was when i entered the mountain with a friend and they went dormant in the middle of the snow i sat there with them for five minutes straight, keeping them warm with a song every so often but then i realized they weren't coming back and had to move on without them then i climbed up the mountain alone and had no one to keep me warm at the coldest part that's when i fell to the snow and woke up in the final area that was one of the most heart wrenching experiences i've ever had

[@alan62036]

@@dlf7789 Me too. The person even messaged me afterwards saying thanks for the trip and the achievement. :)

[@ThrottleKitty]

My first experience with the game was the total opposite of his description. The player interaction litterally ruined it for me. Fairly ealry on I was stuck on an easy puzzle because the game wanted an exact button sequence I basically had to trial and error to figure out. Another player kept doing the puzzle over and over, getting in my way, distracting me, flailing around like an idiot. The only reason the puzzle was remotely hard was him flailing around in my way chirping like an idiot... lol

[@ternasius]

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[@themagictheatre2965]

That's the Wade-Giles transliteration from the 19th century, which is hopelessly outdated and was never remotely close to accurate. As outdated as calling Beijing "Peking" . A more correct way to write his name in our alphabet is Sun Zi, that's the modern Pinyin transliteration.

[@goodmorning9338]

I never thought I'd see a Sun Tzu (or Sun Zi, as the other guy says) quote outside of _his_ comments section

[@sarcasm-83]

Never thought I'd see a Sun Tzu quote being referred to being an asshole.

[@7own878]

That's why I love the tale of Aenas. He was a strong hero who could have moved a big stone by hand but he just tipped so it rolled down a hill. Fighting with your head is way more rewarding than fighting with your body abilities and it will be good for you in the long run.

[@avzarathustra6164]

@@themagictheatre2965 Interesting.

[@vedritmathias9193]

"Is it possible to fix gaming toxicity?" Not so long as there are 2 players who don't know each other playing in a competitive situation. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[@igorthelight]

True!

[@nocturn333]

"So long as there's 2 people left on the planet, someone's gonna want someone dead."

[@andrewgallagher7690]

MMA is a sport we’re two people literally beat the shit out of each other yet every fighter shows a great deal of respect and sportsmanship to one another. The reason why so many gamers are toxic is because of 2 reasons. Online you have a lot of anonymity, so you can get away with saying way more things than you could IRL. There’s also the second problem that a lot of gamers are low key (and high key) sexist and racist, but that’s a whole other can of worms.

[@universe_cat3149]

@@andrewgallagher7690 MMA has a culture of showing respect but even then its only because of rules and preestablished norms. And even then there's still toxic people in MMA who gloat or boast. Anonymity helps it but there's no real solution to that unless you want to tell everyone to use their real names and get them ddosed instead. And calling an entire group a negative adjective seems kinda odd especially when they're literally just playing games. Thats like saying all TV watchers are homophobes, its stupid and solves nothing

[@ardenorcrush649]

Toxicity arises less among 1v1 rivals and more due to in-fighting on teams that are losing. Examples being Overwatch, LoL, Dota, etc.

[@spicy7130]

The section around 4:00 about the friendly encounter in world of warcraft reminded me of this one interaction I had in tf2 a while back I was playing the control point gamemode and my team was quickly retreating. I tried to get back into my spawn area to stock up on ammo and health but the door to spawn suddenly locked shut before I could enter. I turned around and saw an enemy soldier staring me down. We crouched a bunch in a show of friendship and he started spamming the "Go! Go! Go!" emote to tell me that it was safe for me to run back to friendly lines. I used the "Thanks!" emote and went on my way. Immediately after this interaction I was ripped to shreds and taunted at by an enemy heavy who just happened to pass by. TLDR: enemy soldier let me live another day. enemy heavy was not as kind (sorry for any grammar mistakes btw)

[@markopopovic9874]

I like how the people who apologise write near perfect english, almost every single time.

[@jamiemccreath3959]

Another example I'd bring up is when you die in Smash because of some BS and your opponent does a homie stock. Rare, but it restores my hope in humanity.

[@Caspenar]

@@markopopovic9874 It takes quite a degree of language familiarity to apologise so it seems.

[@radekseky4571]

This happens literally every 20 seconds in that game. It's the absolute epitome of an engaging and fun community.

[@amaplepaladin5700]

Tf2 has so many instances of that! It’s awesome!

[@Barseik]

What about the universal way of saying "Over here", "Hooray" and "Thank you"? Jumping!

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

No, crouching.

[@atlasmonkeyleon]

"Okay, what you're doing there is jumping. You just jumped. But never mind... say apple!"

[@rumotu]

Booyah. This way. Ooops.

[@tatotatoo5404]

@@atlasmonkeyleon good reference!

[@prayk11]

It also means “I’m friendly”.

[@Vaelosh466]

Pings in LoL are used to annoy teammates, especially using the "missing" ping which is a question mark on top of allies when you want to say "What was that?" or "Why didn't you help?" Trying to "curb toxicity" is a losing battle for most kinds of multiplayer games.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Seeing people use the MIA ping in LoL for its intended function is actually quite jarring. It's used for toxicity so often that people forget it has a non-toxic use.

[@Teybort]

Exactly what I thought. Toxic people will always find way to annoy others. You have to either remove any form of direct communication or pay a psychologist for those players. There is no shortcut.

[@Hayseus712]

I think you missed the mark a bit here. You talk at length about how access to specific communication tools can reduce toxicity, then point out how DOTA already HAS similar tools and acknowledge that it's still infamously toxic anyway. Then you talk about FF14, a game widely seen as having one of the nicest and least toxic communities of any multiplayer game on the market, and fail to do any real critical analysis as to why that is. (Personally, I think commendations play a part in it, but there's a lot more to it and you didn't even really go into much depth about how commendations affect toxicity anyway beyond a sentence or two.) It kinda felt like for a large chunk of the video, you were explaining your personal ideas about how to fix toxicity then looking for games implementing those ideas without any real analysis on whether those things make the games less toxic or even how toxic those games are in the first place. (Like using WoW as an example of a game that encourages emergent friendly behavior when most people's experiences with WoW, myself included, involve getting shouted at in group content for small mistakes.) I think this idea warrants revisiting with a follow-up video. This time, though, reverse your process: find non-toxic games, find toxic games, and compare what the two do differently. Perform a critical analysis of why those differences might be causing more or less toxicity in different games, and focus on suggesting solutions based on those findings. I hope you consider another pass at this concept, and I wish you the best of luck! :)

[@sonicgoo1121]

So, what more is there to it? You didn't mention it either!

[@akshay9602]

Try to play with your friends as much as possible. Dont play with random teammates , they are toxic most of the time.

[@gabrielrevigliono8241]

@@akshay9602 that is stupid. You can play with strangers. Only know this: you are not unique and special. You don deserve special treatment and ,if you insist, then you often will get the reverse conduct.

[@akshay9602]

@@gabrielrevigliono8241 If you play with strangers then dont expect them to be nice to you i mean not all of them are rude but you have to be prepared for some toxicity.I cant handle toxicity so i try to play with my friends.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

I think the reason FF14 has a "clean" community is due to the game dying and being written off before being rebuilt. To anyone who wants to be a jerk, it is a mess of a game that isn't worth their time as it is already bad. It is more fun, at least I view it that way, to destroy something good. Obviously knowing/acting on these things are different. I just know I was a really bad kid.

[@NoOne-fe3gc]

"Sorry", Oppressing people for generations

[@TheAgamidaex]

and we thought Canadians were being polite...

[@user-wk2gi5cp9y]

ha

[@JoKad17]

Dark Souls system can't be used easily to troll? Mr "very goood"*point down*"I'm sorry".

[@gergokerekes4550]

"chest ahead" on ledges, no I never falled for that why are you asking?

[@one-eyedepi9338]

I just laugh if someone starts pointing down at me.

[@kilstradamus197]

Lemme just drop a dungpie and point at you.

[@d_clarence6174]

thanks i was looking for this comment to make sure someone pointed that out

[@atlas4733]

“Woman required ahead” in front of a pile of dirty dishes

[@simondasilva]

"The only way to communicate in Dark Souls is through emotes and indirectly through signs left on the ground" *I'M SORRY and VERY GOOD intensifies*

[@Frag-ile]

The first step to alleviating game toxicity is to stop pretending like it's a gaming problem. Toxicity is rife in humanity as a whole it can't be fixed in one particular space, we need to promote civility in society at large, stop promoting tribalism and ideological purity testing that renders it impossible for anyone to even try to understand people with different points of view.

[@thefroggy5240]

I think the rampant toxicity in gaming says a lot about the people who are playing these games. Very worrying demographic.

[@jeice13]

@@thefroggy5240 i think it has more to do with certain factors like the difficulty of policing behaviour, how much you notice negativity compared to neutrality, and the fact that in many cases communication requires taking your focus off of the game and is thus sub optimal unless youve already written this match off as a loss

[@X6Fly]

Fax

[@Choinkus]

@@thefroggy5240 You do realize just how many people play video games, right? You can't make generalizations like that. Games are a diverse art medium and are enjoyed by massive numbers of people, in many different ways. It's dangerous to start treating games and toxicity as if they're tied together.

[@Doublemonk0506]

@@Choinkus, it's even worse to associate all video games as the same toxic cesspool. No game is the mirror of the other, and that reflects in toxicity. Minecraft is in general less toxic as it is noncompetitive and encourages teamwork to survive. Meanwhile, battle royales and fps see more toxicity as these games encourage competition and a mindset of kill or be killed. Toxicity is not the result of games. Toxicity is a social issue, not a game one. P.S: This is in support of you Choinkus, not critique

[@kiraangle2823]

im on the side of tf2 giving you an achievement for making 10 people rage quit. if its a game mechanic, people will put as little effort into it as possible by default.

[@Shenaniganizer620]

It’s also funny

[@ToxicBastard]

BarbeQueQ

[@betawooper2485]

The achievement also does a good job of showing "this game doesn't take itself seriously in the slightest, there's no reason to be toxic."

[@benjaminduperreault4447]

Makes entire video about toxicity, doesn't mention LoL or Overwatch once. What, how?

[@Daegul3]

They are lost. Forever. The entire cit... game must be purged.

[@TheAlison1456]

DOTA served as a stood-in.

[@Spitfire200]

Because OW proves that no matter how draconian you are at punishing players being negative towards each other, they will still do it. And that probably scared the uploader into not even entertaining it, because it might prove him wrong. Such behavior is typical of a censor of course...

[@UrielOfStyx]

@jocaguz18 Nice job being toxic my guy

[@UrielOfStyx]

@@Spitfire200 I dunno about how much of a censor the uploader is, but you hit the nail on the head, i reckon. Haven't watched many of his vids, but for an 'architect of games', he sure does sound like someone in need of a clue or seven sometimes.

[@KeithOlson]

It just struck me that a system that could work is one that works in real life, and every child knows it: at the end of every session, a 'Would you like to play with these people again?' screen pops up with 1-5 ranking, defaulting to 3--'Sure, why not.' and ranging from 'Absolutely not!' to 'Absolutely!'. The lobby system would then aggregate players' scores (weighted by the average of each player) to try to matchmaker according to 'agreeableness', as well as any other variables. That way, 'Good Guy Gregs' would, over time, end up playing with fewer and fewer 'Scumbag Steves'. In essence, if you don't play nice, people won't want to play with you again. Does that make sense?

[@RagdollDustyCh]

This makes a lot of sense, I wonder if any games do this. They already do so much skill ranking they might as well add in toxicity ranking too

[@Jaxan-dq2jy]

@@RagdollDustyCh I absolutely think it would work if implemented correctly. I wouldn't even be that novel. Most simracers have a sportsmanship rating which is the same concept but exclusive to motorsports and how well you play by the rules

[@vali_bg5234]

A wise person once said "As long as there are 2 people left on the planet someone is gonna want someone dead"

[@user-mp5mg7ef9y]

"Understanding that these problems are linked" - shows picture of Link. I see what you did there.

[@elijahbryce9526]

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Problems

[@naufalap]

@@elijahbryce9526 I wouldn't call Zelda buttcheeks problems

[@bingbongjoel6581]

CSlash Nuh-uh that it’s Zelda. His name is literally in the title of the game. Smh my hat

[@rasta7655]

The nicest and most memorable experiences with in game voice lines and emotes is when two tf2 players spam the spy voice line at each other

[@mirraisnow6050]

"That spy is a spy"

[@radilime]

@@mirraisnow6050 "It seems I am not the only spy."

[@nicollasgoncalvesribeiro6315]

heavy is pie!

[@Juniverse0]

Another thing I liked about Journey is the fact that the game tells you the name of the player(s) that accompanied you at the very end. That way you can normally talk to them through text messages, after you’ve beaten the game together. I remember getting through the game from start to finish with a single companion (there’s an achievement for that btw.) and reminiscing with them about the run afterwards via the PS3-message-system.

[@CruitNOR]

12:20 what you said here is incorrect. Companions can be fleeting, last the whole game through or you go through the entire journey alone. The player is at no point in the game reliant on a partner.

[@GabrielCMenon]

Is it possible to fix human nature?

[@yqafree]

Only the supernature can change nature We can make tradeoffs in reality, at best we just mitigate evil not ever completely resolve the general reality of conflict

[@beckettthirion3147]

We just need to have a overall societal system that promotes constructive behavior and shuns the tribalism that leads to conflict. How we get there idk Edit: Or genetic engineering that makes people as ethical as possible from birth. But if that happens we need to be careful who's ethics are being applied.

[@Schneeregen_]

@@beckettthirion3147 Your genetic mind manipulation idea sounds an awful lot like eugenics.

[@beckettthirion3147]

@@Schneeregen_ Fair point. That was just an example and not what I would do. If we were to do anything with genetic engineering I would try to get rid of the horrors of human nature (depression, anxiety, tribalism, etc.) while still keeping someones personality in tact.

[@agentoranj5858]

Spit out the bone.

[@JarroHood]

I can't wait for all the comments just asking "what's up with Game Maker Toolkit"

[@haldir108]

What's up with Game Maker's Toolkit?

[@artkash38]

What an amazing coincidence - Game Maker's Toolkit reference _just_ the next day I subscribed *both* channels

[@brandonbudidjaja9440]

but what is up with GMTK though

[@sadthecat4454]

ah yes gmtk

[@Otawee]

Guys really what's wrong with gmtk. Is there something I don't know? I'm really enjoying gmtk as this channel. Let me know what I missed.

[@morbid1.]

it's impossible to "balance" or "remove"... even the most neutral gesture or word can be turned negative with context.

[@ExeErdna]

Yeah, that's how people got upset at the "Okay" hand gesture when people trolled them into it being a white power symbol. They were legit told they were being baited and trolled they still believed it.

[@spinyslasher6586]

@@ExeErdna The OK hand symbol drama was just there to prove that MSM will find even the most menial thing to cling to if that gives them enough publicity.

[@ExeErdna]

@@spinyslasher6586 I know I was apart of the people that thought it up. MSM was so hype to pin something on something. No matter how stupid it was to the point the moment we've play around mock co-oping pointless things both MSM and the hateful dumbasses ate it up. It was glorious

[@Kayenne54]

So true. I've said "Thank you" in rl or in games and people auto think I was being sarcastic. Very sad. So I changed it to "Many thanks" but even then...

[@maidifferent]

"There's almost no room for misinterpretation or aggressive language" Excuse me? Alt-clicking is very good for communicating information fast and precisely but if you think it's hard to use it to be toxic then you've never ever played League of Legends... I can tell you spamming alt-click on an ally's respawn timer (if they died) or alive status (if they didn't rotate) is probably the second most used form of toxicity in the game (and alt-clicking an ally's items is probably significant too), the first form of it by far being spamming the question mark emote. So no, there is plenty of room for aggressive language with alt-clicking.

[@FirstCelestialEmperor]

Last time I played league of legends I remember they blocked your ping for a while if you spam it. I don't remember it being too bad

[@Drakonflare]

I feel this video skipped a major part about toxicity. In multiplayer games toxicity happens way more often than in real life. Why is that? Many might say it is anonymity. I would say it is society. In real life, people might be toxic to strangers, but much less so to familiar people. Because people understand that if you mess up the relationships with those people, you'd have to face the consequences of that on a regular basis. Moreover, toxic behaviour against one person can easily spoil relations with other people as well. Now back to multiplayer gaming. Most games nowadays have megaservers, with people from all around your continent joining. This means shorter matchmaking times, but it also means you are unlikely to run into the same people very often. There is no society, and people become less social. Custom servers or custom run public games/matches suffer from this way less. Take a look at for example Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. There, player-hosted dedicated servers determine game mode, mods, rules, basically everything. Matchmaking is done by you selecting which server you want to join. The kicker is that if you enjoy a particular server, you have a vested interest in not being toxic, lest you gain a reputation. And if you do, people will friendly fire you, mods won't listen if you complain about something, your input for improvements to the server is ignored or you might just get kicked/banned. From the other side, the people operating the server have a vested interest in running a 'clean' server. This whole creates a society not unlike a real one, where people are much less likely to act out than in random matches. Also, such societal-oriented server use makes it easier to make friends. Since even if you don't talk to a person the first 10 times you meet them, after playing weeks on the same server you can't help but become acquainted.

[@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598]

You know, what you wall "society" is exactly what people mean by anonymity. No accountability for your actions and behavior = Absolute shithead. Of course it's not using a pseudonym that turns people into assholes, it's the fact that, as you say, tehy don't have to care about maintaining healthy relationships since there is little to no punishment for ruining them.

[@Drakonflare]

@@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598 While you can't have a society without accountability, merely having accountability does not form a society. It is the entire structure to how you are held accountable, whom you are held accountable by, who you can hold accountable. It is in how the severity of accountability can change depending on events within that society. Accountability just speaks of the consequence of an action, while society includes the complex interplay of power, emotions, wants and needs of the social animal that is the human. It is how behaviour might change without anyone being held accountable.

[@rustyshackleford1508]

@@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598 If you don't have a desire for the relationship and instead are arbitrarily forced into it and held accountable to it, would you not also resent it?

[@icarus675]

Correct evolutionary reasoning is rare on the Internet. Congrats !

[@jahredharrison4069]

While anonymity potentially grants people license to be terrible, it's not like it can really be fixed. Removing anonymity and demanding real names, consistent usernames, singular online identities etc. is borderline impossible because people will just lie. The only way to stop people from lying would be to ask for highly personal information such as ID which never goes down well and universally causes much more significant issues.

[@MangaMarjan]

I feel like heavily rewarding being nice is taking all the power out of it. In Overwatch for example you can give player's some nice reviews like "good teamplayer", "great leader", etc. You get points dor it, so do they. It basically boils down to everyone doing it on auto-pilot. Never felt like real (important) interaction.

[@jamiemccreath3959]

That's a good point. In the Gwent example, however (just going off the video, I haven't played), you aren't rewarded for choosing GG yourself, you're only rewarding your opponent. So if you think your opponent was playing dishonorably, for example, you don't choose GG, and there's no upside or downside for you doing that--meaning when a player does choose GG, it would mean at least something.

[@ramsoofkyo9047]

@@jamiemccreath3959 I would say that problem of curtuasy is more complicated even in Gwent. If your oponent clicks "GG" and you're not, then you're indeed not choosing the "toxic option" but also you're not nice ergo bit toxic. :P

[@thefakebanette3483]

True but the idea behind it isn't that you will do it every time the idea is that you won't do it every time. You will give the praise to the ones that you feel were actually good to play against not the toxic ones. If it feels like you are doing it on auto pilot it means that to a degree it is working. Because you are not thinking about not giving it because they were toxic.

[@Raganui]

I agree with you. When I played FFXIV, I randomly dropped commendations cause I actually felt like I was being an asshole if I didn't do it. I didn't feel like I was actually telling someone 'you did good', in fact, I hated most of my dungeon parties and wished I could have left them to die because.. that's for a different day. But yea... point is, there being a reward for 'being nice' just pushes this false nicety forward and it feels stupid and more toxic and insulting.

[@mccoycactus8694]

League of Legends also has a similar system where you can honor a player for staying calm, making great calls or being overall friendly. The rewards for honoring a player can be disappointing at first but you will later discover that the more honors you give out and receive, the more prestigious the loot you get is

[@WorldWideMusic2000]

20 years ago there was sign in the Internet called "don't feed the trolls", no idea where it disappear, but people need to understand the the vast majority of the Toxic gamers just want attention, no matter how So stop give them this attention

[@Doublemonk0506]

It's not just trolls who infest the internet. The ghouls of cruelty attempt to get under a person's skin for their sick kicks. The tarrasques known as aholes blow up when something doesn't go their way, destroying all in their wake. Toxicity is not just trolls. Just like in DnD monsters, toxicity comes in different forms that have specific ways to be defeated

[@Keyce0013]

@@Doublemonk0506 Most of which is generally just "complete the mission/game and put them on block" but of course nobody wants to put people on block anymore, either.

[@jonathankay849]

In addition to the normal trolls of the past, we now also have political trolls too. It's a well timed /pol/ invasion of the internet I would say.

[@alyssavanderklift9296]

@@Doublemonk0506 and like that 'don't feed the trolls' still stands as statement, we just need to findthose warning signs agian and put them back up

[@Doublemonk0506]

@@alyssavanderklift9296, maybe those jerks that get under your skin will fall if no one listens, but aholes don't care. They will kick and scream until either someone justifies them, or they run out of steam

[@brianwright5844]

I'm glad Journey was talked about in the video, it's an amazing game that deserves more attention than it gets, but at the same time, the community and interactions in the game are so much more in depth than you would think after playing through it just a time or two. For the purposes of the video it was explained well, but I can't resist taking a minute to show just how amazing it is once you get deeper under the surface of the game and play it not just to play through it, but to really explore what all it can offer and how the community communicates these things. On my second playthrough I ran into someone who started showing off various tricks, like making his character trip, floating into the air while crouching, and gaining massive amounts of height after a small dive. At first I thought he was cheating, but after watching for a while and trying to replicate his motions during the diving trick, I realized he was showing and trying to teach me various tricks and fancy things that exist through the game. Some I couldn't understand just by watching, and eventually we continued through the game together and he showed me various secrets and hidden collectibles I had missed the first time around. After that run i did some research into some of these tricks and learned how to do them myself. As I did a few more runs I met a few other experienced players who would first greet me by "tripping", a relatively simple trick that a casual player wouldn't know about. After I was able to replicate the trick, they moved on to show me bigger and fancier tricks, flight techniques, and out-of-bounds areas once they saw that I had mastered the easy ones. Soon enough, with every player I came across, I greeted them with a trip, and if they greeted me in kind we would show off what tricks we knew and had fun messing around, and if they didn't know how to trip, I would show them some of the beginner tricks that I had been taught, and I realized it was a fascinating cycle that I was now a part of continuing. Some players just wanted to casually run through the game, and I would join them and let them have their fun without making them feel like they were in a game with a cheater by flying around they with fancy tricks, but others were interested in learning them like I was, and I was able to teach them a few things just by showing them the motions and giving them some chirps when they were on the right track. The trip greeting was a good way to gauge a players experience, but more often than not it wasn't necessary. As you complete runs of the game, your cloak gets progressively more fancy, and by collecting every upgrade in one run, you unlock a special white cloak. Usually players with the fancy cloaks or the white coat knew a few tricks of their own having played a few runs of the game, while newer less experienced players with starter cloaks could only jump and chirp in response to the trip greeting. What's so fascinating to me is how just about every player who had done more than one or two runs of the game had been taught some of these fancy tricks and nuances like I was, and what was a first a peaceful game involving running around and flapping every now and then, eventually became a situation where myself and another player would tandem-fly at high speeds across the map performing cool tricks on the way. Such a simple game with these hidden nuances became an entirely new and different experience once these hidden features were learned, and the fact that the players are able to teach and learn so well despite only being able to run, flap, and chirp makes it even more amazing. Anyway, this comment has gone on about a million times longer than I wanted it too, so umm... If you haven't played Journey, you definitely should, and if you only played it once or twice, visit the wiki and read up on a couple beginner tricks before playing it again and tripping at each player you meet

[@nicreven]

You know, I played the game entirely offline, so now, after the video and your comment, I feel like I've missed out on a massive portion of the game; It was still beautiful alone, and I feel like the loneliness can be important too, it's just different.

[@DarkSpartan343]

There are some people out there who truly just join a game to grief others, but fortunately they are actually a pretty small group. Most toxicity stems from frustration, and basically ALL of this frustration stems directly from game design. Doing things like designing a game around heroes that fill very specific team rolls, then matching you with a bunch of random teammates that are absolutely vital to your success creates and environment where you have to rely on others you don't know in order to succeed. It would be difficult for me to even imagine a more frustrating environment to work in. Contrast this to brilliant games like Nier automata that through genius game design, make people feel like sacrificing everything to h[e]lp others. Human nature won't change, but it's the game designers that are in complete control. The level of toxicity in a community is DIRECTLY related to what the developers created, intended or not.

[@markopopovic9874]

I mean DRG is kinda like that and it's awesome, because you have to relly on others, but i guess its community is nicer than most of the others.

[@DarkSpartan343]

@@markopopovic9874 I don't know what DRG is, but I'm willing to bet if we examined it we could find really smart design decisions that foster a happy community.

[@markopopovic9874]

@@DarkSpartan343 It's Deep Rock Galactic, a coop dwarf bug space first person shooter mix, where you can be only one of the four classes, but others can choose other classes, so you can help eachother quite a lot. You're not really 100% reliant on them, but teamwork helps a lot.

[@DarkSpartan343]

@@markopopovic9874 Ohhh! Rock and Stone! That game is brilliant too, there's a million reasons why. An obvious one being coop, and that you can choose your own difficulty so you only loose because you were willing to risk losing, as opposed to MOBA's that through matchmaking force you to lose about 50% of matches.

[@markopopovic9874]

@@DarkSpartan343 Rock and Stone mate! Yeah I guess coop games do tend to have less toxicity because of the lack of the competitive side unlike MOBAs and such, but still am suprised how people rarely blame their teammates in DRG. It still happens, but it's rare.

[@creeperizak8971]

Getting rid of toxicity will definitely be tough, and removing anything that ever gets used by toxic people is definitely not the answer

[@gamingtime468]

they'll just find another one

[@agiar2000]

Thank you for this. I found it very interesting. It reminds me of a bad time I had trying to play StarCraft II. I really enjoyed the game, and I got into the multiplayer aspect for a while, but I had many very unpleasant matches with either an opponent or even an ally using very abusive and hurtful language against me in the text chat. I tried to find a way to mute or block a particular player from being able to send me chat messages during the match, but I could not find such an option, so I went to the forums and asked simply if there were a way to mute someone who was being rude to me, so I couldn't receive their messages anymore. I found the response rather surprising. The vast majority of responses were very hostile to my question. The consensus seemed to be that the verbal abuse was absolutely sacred and me not wanting to be exposed to it represented a terrible threat to gaming, and if I didn't want to take that kind of abuse, I should just get off the Internet permanently. They seemed almost like they were afraid that I was trying to stifle their free speech or something, and aside from the whole notion that a right to free speech does not guarantee a right to use every public platform to say absolutely anything, I wasn't even trying to stop anyone from saying things. I wasn't asking to report the abusive player, to punish them, to get them banned, or even to prevent them from sending abuse to others. I just wanted to automatically block messages from them to me so I alone could ignore them, but that was a deeply offensive concept to most of the people who responded to me on the forums. I found this so surprising because I would have thought that most people would rather play a game without abuse than one with it, that most people think that being mean is bad. After all, one cannot expect to be allowed to walk into a local game store, comic store, or movie theater, start cursing people out, calling them ethnic and sexual slurs, demanding that they commit suicide, et cetera, and be welcomed back to that same space, allowed to keep coming and behaving like that. No, we would expect the management of the establishment to remove that person and not allow them back in, and we would expect the other patrons to appreciate that level of moderation, not to think of it as Orwellian thought-police. It really does make me wonder sometimes "what is _wrong_ with some people?" Like, why is it the abuse and hatred that they feel such a desperate need to protect, but they feel no desire to protect a more pleasant, constructive space, happy for anyone uncomfortable with toxicity to be run off the platform, but ready to call for boycotts and start online campaigns of harassment to fight back against a company that shows an inclination to remove players for exhibiting the absolute height of bad behavior?

[@Kayenne54]

Archeage has a mute player button. Or block. I had more people in my "blocked" section than "friends". Also they don't know you've blocked them. Downside is if you're doing some community exercise and they're in charge and shouting orders and ...I wouldn't "hear" them lol. So I cherry picked what I'd take part in, and just happily play whatever I liked in it. Different game to one you mention, of course, but I take this approach to all MMORPG's. Once had someone on Runescape, back in the day, interrogate me over what I was doing. I told him/her that when he/she PAYS for my sub I'll do whatever he/she says; until then, I Pay, I Play My Way. End of story. Any game where it is common to cop flack because you weren't aware of certain mechanics, certain play in dungeons (for example)...then I wouldn't do the dungeons and if I did, I'd just do my best and leave the party silently. Don't feed the trolls.

[@lx4half751]

1:31 Not a healthy indicator for gaming society that allowing people to interact with each other is considered too dangerous a feature to enable

[@firstsurname2388]

Not really, that's just human nature. Could you imagine you allowed voice chat for people watching a political debate, shit would get real bad real quick regardless of gaming.

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

@@firstsurname2388 That'd be funny as hell. You gotta learn to laugh in hellworld after all.

[@ToxicBastard]

*deer girl intensifies*

[@matthewshiers9038]

Regarding Apex Legend's pinging system, you might be surprised to know that Evolve also used a ping system to highlight points of interest on the map to team mates (usually the giant monster).

[@Theeight8b]

Алсо - Battlefield 2.

[@darthvaderreviews6926]

Yeah, various ping systems have existed in FPS, it's just that Apex has a particularly refined version. Though regarding Evolve and toxicity, I think it offers a nice jumping off point for how a game's design can render it more or less vunerable to a toxic community. In Evolve each of the four classes are INCREDIBLY divided in their abilities and *need* to rely on each other to succeed to an incredible amount, excluding Support which can "fill" a specific other role to an extent. If your Tracker is bad you'll never catch the monster til it hits lvl3 and you've essentially lost the game, if your Healer is bad you *will* wipe against the monster, if your Assault is bad you will never kill the monster because they're the only character with DPS that actually matters. This resulted in an experience where during the Beta, I never played anything but monster because of a godawful experience with Tracker. You can't learn the game as a Hunter without dragging down your teammates to certain losses for several games straight. (and this is coming from someone extremely experienced with FPS!)

[@Khaleb_0]

Man the 16 people who played Evolve sure had a good system then

[@herobrineapril8451]

I think its also interesting to look at the older communities, the ones that have matured overtime aren't as toxic and show restraint to the point that they can be considered wholesome. A great example is the minecraft server of minr where the community is extremely welcoming and arguments are unmerited.

[@ethribin4188]

Toxicity is something inherant to compeditivness. We are fighting and competing. No suprise we have very emotional outbursts, or try to use our opponents outbursts to gain an advantage. We cant remove toxicity. But there are ways to reduce toxicity, discourage it, or encourage more effective and subjective information exchange.

[@fermatt]

*MARK BROWN IS TYPING...*

[@zymosan99]

"amazing chest ahead"

[@rebmakash8539]

Your description of Journey summed it up wonderfully! I'm a part of the Journey Discord community. The amount of drama in the community is miraculously low for a game community, in large part I think because of what you described: the strong reduction of gaming toxicity. (BTW, you can play with a friend, though there's a trick to it, and a little luck.) I've played countless times, but the game's encouragement to have a companion and communicate in such a way brings me back again and again. I've had companions chirping like crazy upon meeting me to express their excitement finding a buddy, or even sing to me in rhythmic chimes as I sit, serenaded. It's so wonderful seeing others make this connection outside the community. *Sings to charge up the Like button*

[@jegeization]

Short answer: no Long answer: nnnnooo

[@Christian-ir2mb]

"filthy horde" That hurts, you damn ally

[@imskiller99]

1:54 This is not an exclusively "non-white" thing. I dare you to join a LatAM server and try talking Russian.

[@theral056]

His americacentrism is shining through quite a bit in this episode haha

[@agentoranj5858]

@@theral056 Which is strange because he''s a scot. But then they're all insufferable like that.

[@theral056]

@@agentoranj5858 eh, I'm Belgian and I'm pretty much in the American bubble by virtue of job and hobbies all pushing me that way. American culture is seeping all over the world via the language alone, as it's the most influential culture using it. And English is just everywhere nowadays.

[@pupiberto]

exactly, I remember playing on some latam servers in battlefield bad company 2 back in the day and gringos got roasted hard just for not speaking spanish, its not a race thing

[@ayanhart]

@@agentoranj5858 What do you mean he's a Scot? He doesn't even have a Scottish accent.

[@jimothyminkus1543]

Step 1: press mute all Step 2: play

[@stevenismart]

I hate games without voice chat, you have to jump through hoops to talk to your teammates. Especially team strategy games which is usually what I play. You're at a huge disadvantage if you're paired up with a stranger vs someone who is in a party chat with their friends

[@grenade416]

Not having the capacity to do evil does not make someone a good person, a good person is someone who is capable of evil but chooses not to be. Stamping out toxicity shouldn't be a goal, it should be a consequence of the way in which we all choose to interact with each other.

[@grenade416]

@jocaguz18 Couldn't agree more with what your comment about leaving behind idealism. I would say that seeking to extinguish toxic gaming culture is idealistic, because it could only be achieved if all people were forced to be "good" at which point there is no freedom to actually be good. I'll give you an example, I played a lot of Arma 2 DayZ mod, 95% of people you run across will try to kill you, hold you to ransom, handcuff you and generally destroy everything you have created. When you do come across someone who is friendly (which does happen) it really matters, its a fantastic experience and I made friends who I later met irl when travelling around the world. On the reverse a player kill could spark a massive clan war with dozens of players hunting each other, which was a brilliant example of emergent gameplay done well. There are many points that are spot on in this video, rewarding "good" behaviour, removing the most extreme toxicity and so on, I just would like to make the point that there are many cases where people being free to behave in positive and negative manners improves a game. tl:dr I don't think stamping out toxicity completely should be a goal, I appreciate players who are kind even more when they have the choice not to be.

[@steelwasp9375]

Well said.

[@grenade416]

@@pupip55 That's really interesting, initially counterintuitive, but I suppose if you don't value player interaction, the loss of a base or ship would hurt even more

[@grenade416]

@@pupip55 I guess instinctively I'd expect more passive players to be less interested in interacting and so less likely to be toxic, but I can completely see how I would be wrong

[@Johnnjlee]

You’re probably not going to see this, but check out Sky: Children of Light, a good example of a multiplayer game with little toxicity. It’s also made by the same people who made Journey.

[@MultiCali7]

Sky is one of my favourite games from last year! It’s fantastic

[@Johnnjlee]

@@MultiCali7 I still play it when I cant get to sleep, I should boot it up again. I don't think I'll ever forget the game as long as I live its just that good.

[@MultiCali7]

Johnnjlee Hahaha literally it’s so good after a long and stressful day - it’s just so pretty 🤧

[@gryffehondor4236]

I'm still waiting for the Switch release :(

[@Johnnjlee]

@@gryffehondor4236 I'm still waiting for any release outside of phones, can't wait to play this on my PC as my current phone runs this game at about 20fps

[@xCr0nus]

Only select games are toxic. Play single player, or games that aren’t as competitive, and you’ll never have to deal with toxicity.

[@duchi882]

11:42 - If I get a *Heckin Chonko Good Boi* for being nice then I'd go Pacifist route on every game if possible

[@pavonian7531]

One cool thing I've noticed is how people in SMM2 vs mode will wait at the flagpole so that others can finish, since you lose far fewer points if you make it to the pole. It wastes your own time, risks having your win stolen and has no tangible reward, yet if people didn't do it reaching the highest ranks would be almost impossible.

[@aknopf8173]

When you can mostly communicate by jumping and ducking, you cannot see or hear your opponents outrage about lag or luck and feel friendlier towards them. You also get more creative at showing that friendliness :)

[@SirProtagonist]

The only way toxicity in games gets removed completely is with the complete removal of players interacting with another. But there’s a lot still that can be done to help make it better.

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

The only way to stop toxicity in games is to not have games. People have been using mind games since forever, and trashtalking is a form of that.

[@LionMartell]

As a rust player, I say: good luck

[@chrismath149]

Removing options for players to be sarcastic really feels like the programmers and managers think gamers are kids and need to be kept in check. It also leaves a bad after taste since it walks very closely to outright making communication useless and a controlled, constricted motion (it isn't 1984 style of censorship but I am not comfortable with it). Language is a good way to vent frustration and being sarcastic through the use of emojis really doesn't hurt anyone unless someone's a gentle flower that has been grown in an artificial environment. The line needs to be drawn when people systematically stalk and insult other people over a long period of time or are generally abusive. At the end of the day, toxicity in gaming will always happen in some form or another. It's highly competitive, brings a lot of people together and includes a large group of immature people. And if someone in a contest starts yelling, remove that person from the contest for breaking rules of conduct. It's not that hard.

[@YuriNoirProductions]

i think its more important to find out why players get toxic and address that instead of removing all the ways to communicate in a game to the point of meaninglessness. definitly the easiest and fastest fix. but not the root of the issue. I'M basically never toxic myself. but i am insanely toxic in one game...Overwatch. and there is a pretty specific reason for it. But first to make it clear. i'm getting pissed and mad and sometimes even confront teammates when they are fucking up the match. but i do it politely and in a respectful manner. still super pissed. but silently. but how does this game manages to make me that pissed? why can i play through hollow knights path of pain die 500 times and enjoy it. and get batshit crazy in overwatch where i have 30 elim killstreaks and still get furios at the end of the match? It's helplessness und unfairness. Other people beeing able to cheese your loss or team members beeing badly matched and ruining it for everyone else. Someone else has control about how your game plays out. in a way that you cannot prevent. as soon as you loose control you introduce real world frustration in to games. The very reason why games are so enjoyable in the first place is that in most cases there is only one person to blame. yourself. and that is fine. that is something that motivates you to get better. As soon as you are not the reason. It is only frustrating. That is why all these things make us pissed. Bugs killing you. cheaters beating you not by skill but by tools. team members trolling and forcing a loss. even just bad matchmaking bringing you in a situation that cant be won at your current skill level. Loosing control in one of the most frustrating things in live. most people are not aware how much this single thing influences our very happiness in life. EDIT: before it comes as comment. yes there are tons of people just beeing dicks because they are insecure shitfucks. but i'm only talking about that one reason right now :)

[@YuriNoirProductions]

@Is me ? Thanks for sharing your thoughts. that is definitly something that makes you more helpless in OW than in Destiny as you are actively facing (mild) punishment for leaving. In the end Aggression is only one way of dealing with stress. Everyone is unique to that. i find it interesting that you mentioned yourself "shutting down". as this is also a defense mechanism and you can see it in alot of games in OW. some people just cut communication or stop playing seriously midmatch. others just leave th ematch. I think this reaction is deeply rooted in what you want to get from that match. I'm competitive and i often just want a fair match with equal opponents but i also need a win from time to time. at the very least i want my team to try. That's why i stay in the match...i don't want to give up. I Never did that in real life so do i in games. I think that is the reason i sometimes resign to toxicity, because i am somewhat trapped in the match, i don't want to leave, i generally don't give up...so i can only keep trying and knowing its currently not my fault i usually start making comments about changing tactics. telling to people to stop a thing and so on... not directly toxic...but still. In the end this is an issue all multiplayer games are suffering from where your own success is bound to others people performance. I usually only play FFA anymore because i get insane winrates on there (noone else influencing my performance). And that only feels bad if the matchmaking is ridiculous or someone is using cheats...again stuff out of your control...just differently.

[@YuriNoirProductions]

@Is me ? nd all those games have one thing in common! you are nearly always in control :) have a good one

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

Unfairness is the main reason. Paper Mario as a series has adopted a double standard. SS exists because it is bad having a game share things from past entries... but CS is nearly identical to SS in function and practice. The community is torn in half. Call of Duty: UAVs vs Ghost, Awareness vs Dead Silence, Snipers vs Regular Guns vs Shotguns... one of the more toxic communities. All based on how unfair it is and how easy it is to be exploited for enjoyment in spite of others.

[@chrisward3161]

Yeah ill be honest i get pissed when a person uses a cheap tactic that makes the game ten times easier for them because i like to use more skill based weapons and when they get to win not by skill but by bullshit it makes me mad

[@ExeErdna]

I get what you saying completely the only problem is fighting games since I read and heard people over 10 years. That they hate to lose, yet the problem with that they feel entitled to winning always. Forgetting that in multiplayer there's another person there. So they feel like the other person should always lose and they didn't "earn" the win. Yet that is a selfish mindset and it is even more selfish when people start griefing and or cheating.

[@Lishtenbird]

I lost my partner in the snow plains when they wandered away to a distant corner and vanished. I finished the game alone. I thought it was supposed to end that way :(

[@jamiemccreath3959]

There's not really a right way for things to turn out between players. That's part of the magic!

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

In all honesty, I never saw the other player when I played the game. My whole playthrough was completely alone, despite the other player's name showing up at the end.

[@SilverRay85]

Journey really is a magical experience. When I played through it, I played with someone who was seemingly as new to the game as I was, so it was a pair of two travelers experiencing new things together. After having finished the game, I gave it to a friend and watched them play through it. They had a partner who was very experienced and led them to all the secrets and stuff. When they finally reached the snowy mountain, their partner did the same thing. They led them to a little hill in the corner of the plains, sat down, and then vanished; leaving my friend all alone to finish the trek. I wasn't even the one playing the game and I felt just as shocked as they were, it's great! Despite playing the same game and only having limited tools of communication, two very different narratives and experiences were born from each of our playthroughs

[@DavidPatMathis81]

I struggle so hard not to say “You rock! Cancel that!” in Smite when I have a painfully dumb team mate.

[@AceEletrute]

Hey! I was curious on your thoughts on Thatgamecompany’s other game, Sky: Children of the Light! It’s like Journey but mobile and is based around working together (Full of multiplayer instantances to interact with other people) and is filled with non verbal communication options! From honking (similar to Journey’s singing) to a wide variety of emotes you can find and unlock. There is a chat function in the game but you have to either actively strive towards it with a particular person, or actively search it out in the form of benches. There’s even a ton of customization options available.

[@peon9584]

Anger is an interesting mechanic in the Human’s skill set. It essentially works like this: whenever a Human player’s Happiness score is reduced there’s a chance that they will get either the Anger or Apathy status. If the setback is big the chance of proc’ing Anger and the effects of Anger rise but if the setback is too big they get Apathy instead. Humans in Anger sacrifice their Restraint/Empathy, and Stress stats for an great increase in Strength and Energy. This is used in Retaliation against said enemy to regain the amount of Happiness lost and then some extra, hopefully inflicting the Apathy effect - which lowers Energy and increases Restraint - to stop further attempts of decreasing Happiness. On paper this seems like an op skill, any bad thing that happens to you has a chance for you to Anger, Retaliate with a stronger force. But when Humans interact with each other this skill basically self-sabotages the Human’s Happiness. If a Human reduces another Human’s Happiness by let’s say 5 points and Anger proc’s, the Angered Human will Retaliate. The Retaliation will be stronger than the original Anger proc, so the Angered Human will drop the other Human’s Happiness by 10. Now that the original Human player had their Happiness drop by 10, they’re even more likely to be Angered rather than Apathetic. This causes a positive reinforcement loop where each Retaliation has to become stronger increase to try to activate Apathy, but usually just results in another Anger and severely reduces both Human’s Happiness.

[@yqafree]

That's great!

[@jamiemccreath3959]

Looking at toxicity as a positive feedback loop might actually help design around it.

[@ramsoofkyo9047]

that was an unexpected emotion skill check. Tho other person might response with: "what's the point of this tantrum you idiot" and "don't give a fuck, so chill down". But those are mature responses, it would look totally different when angry person would met "internet troll".

[@maximeteppe7627]

@@jamiemccreath3959 One way could be to provide tool s that actively disrupt the loop. Say you had a multiplayer game with an "appease" spell that you could use to make a player invulnerable for 15secs, filled their screen with a field of flowers and their ears with a heavenly choir and champaign bubbles... the trick would be to make sure that the player loses nothing at being thrown the spell, but that it still lasts long enough for them to chill down. and obviously, using as many psychological tools to disrupt the anger at a base brain level. for a more serious idea, for the drawback of dying in multiplayer, and if the game has rewards you accumulate in the game, showing you the rewards upon dying (like in roguelikes) could refocus players on the excitement of the next run. You could imagine applying a similar strategy for events that are not the death of your avatar, but but impact your team's status. Usually for competitive games, you wouldn't want to provide a gameplay advantage for "bad" plays, but these could be long term rewards that don't impact the current match. for instance, when a teammate is down, you could get some sort of token to be used later on. If you lose ground, you get some sort of "last stand" XP boost that rewards you extra for for taking as many enemies to the grave with you as you can. There was also a cool tidbit in errant signal's video about fortnite telling that side activities and making them the focus of the progression allows losing to be fun.

[@LordCommissarDrac]

an entire section about communication and emotes and no mention of Team Fortress 2 :( Communicating through the vast library of voicelines and emotes/taunts can create some really funny scenarios.

[@LuvzToLol21]

TF2's quick chat system walked so that Apex Legends's ping could run. TF2 has quick voice lines for pretty much any situation, but aside from calling for a Medic just by pressing E, it can be frustrating for new players to navigate through the menus to find the message they want. In many situations it's easier to just type what you want to say in chat. And then there's the problem with Pyro, where it's impossible to understand any of their voice lines anyway.

[@Nozomu564]

Press G to pay respects. I think TF2 taunts are a great way to implement insults strategically, while still making it hilarious. Taunting enemy player is a great way to focus his attention on yourself and make him forget about more important tasks. Backstabbing enemy player will make him waste few seconds spychecking, taunting him will make him waste minutes. Also taunting makes you vulnerable for few precious seconds, so you can't always do that. And one more thing - seeing in kill-cam enemy taunting you, about to be himself taunt-killed: priceless.

[@ballom29]

medic medic medic medic this heavy is a spy this spy is a spy this heavy is a spy this heavy is a spy this spy is a spy this pyro is a spy this pyro is a spy YES this heavy is a spy this spy is a spy medic medic

[@ardenorcrush649]

@@ballom29 Pootis spencer here!

[@ToxicBastard]

loadout does a great job too with it's pre-generated insults for after a game ends I miss loadout

[@petraarkian7720]

Sky has Journeys social stuff but in an actual MMO. It does also have chat its just expensive to unlock so it isn't used much. There are also special benches you can sit on to chat if you need to.

[@corporalkills]

People will always find a way to show salt when they want to. Even with no emotes, they will run out the timer on their turns, or rage quit. In Magic Arena, they only give you certain words you can click as an emote, but that ends up being frustrating and exacerbates salt when you can’t express how annoying a move was. In short, salt will find a way, so just let people talk

[@kentsilvain7329]

I feel like this isn't really that difficult a problem to solve, and we've already developed a pretty solid solution, we just need to migrate it away from being exclusively used in voice chat. It's called a mute function. See, if someone was being offensive, or even just annoying to you, you could mute them, thus being unable to hear their mic, read their chat messages, see their emotes, whatever. By only muting the player being an idiot, you could continue to strategize with your team without difficulty. Granted, this can't prevent people from being a dick before you mute them, Minority Report style, but I'm sure you average player can deal with a troll for the half a second required to mute them.

[@tabnk2]

that solution already exists in R6 Seige, and you can also mute the voice and text individually, so a helpful teammate with a pretzel stick for a mic can still give you information

[@satoro26]

You just described how /block works in games since late 90's...

[@kentsilvain7329]

@@satoro26 Thats the point. This is a solved issue, so why try and reinvent the wheel?

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

That doesn't work. Lets take Call of Duty. Lets pretend you mute me. Okay, I'll just follow you around shooting my gun, getting in your way, throwing smoke grenades when we are on the same team. The mute doesn't stop me from following you around... doing it over and over and over. As long as the "toxic" person exists in some form, their form can block/harm you and they will do that.

[@kentsilvain7329]

@@Buglin_Burger7878if you're so overly sensitive that that will prevent you from playing a game, I can't help you. There comes a point where its no longer reasonable to try to accommodate someone. If you can't handle someone shooting at you in a game without friendly fire, you can't report him and deal with it for one game, you are well beyond that line.

[@emmalucas4177]

4:07 "It's not called World of Peacecraft" Raandyy would like a word with you

[@benismann]

Pings are my most beloved tool for communication, but even it can be exploited by rapidly pinging the same enemy/spot to annoy ppl that u think should deal with it

[@PsychoPath89]

That was an amazing video adam, splendid work!

[@lorcogoth1]

5:55 Rock And Stone!

[@ramsoofkyo9047]

x

[@hook7738]

To the bone!

[@Jsharts]

Stone and rock! Wait...

[@nikkeri99]

Like that! Rock and stone!

[@joshwolters9047]

Publicly expressing an opinion about any social problem takes bravery, and being a fan of yours feels particularly rewarding when you do videos like this, but I do have one major problem with this one. You did not actually define "toxicity," or what you mean when using that word, and yet you are constantly giving subjective examples of behaviors you find toxic or non-toxic. This would have been a pretty major point to make, and I think your conclusions suffered without it. Overall, you do good work and your editing is always professional quality, but when making a thesis-style point always do your best to clearly define the terms you use. But no mater what, thank you for not ignoring the problem of toxicity either. And keep up the good work! ROCK AND STONE, BROTHER!

[@joshwolters9047]

@@malditonuke I agree its a problem, however I was not making a point about it or proposing a solution so I did not see the need to define it. From my own personal experiences, I would define it as a collection of behaviors which exist between members of a community which degrade the quality of the community experience for those who encounter them. While some behaviors could be considered objectively toxic, like gatekeeping or bigotry, others are far more subjective, like tilting or smacktalking. Over all, the personal decision to knowingly act in a way that affects a community you are a member of negatively is morally wrong. However defending that statement is a philosophical endeavor which I do not intend to get into within the comment section of a KZbin video.

[@joshwolters9047]

@@malditonuke I disagree, but I too respect the difference of your opinion. ^^

[@joshwolters9047]

So when do we start calling each other names?

[@joshwolters9047]

@@malditonuke fair point, nincompoop.

[@cayreet5992]

If you need a definition of toxicity, here is an official one (Merriam Webster Dictionary): : the quality or state of being toxic: such as a : the quality, state, or relative degree of being poisonous measuring the toxicity level of the soil "The toxicity of some chemical agents degrades significantly over time, so it is unclear how lethal the stockpiles are."- David S. Cloud "Administering a cocktail of drugs would dilute the toxicities of the different drugs and minimize the development of viral resistance to them."- Rudy M. Baum and Ron Dagani b : an extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful quality "In the past few days, I've tuned in to C-SPAN to watch a number of the televised Senate debates, which illustrate all too vividly the toxicity of an uncivil tongue."- Connie Schultz "In much of the ensuing commentary, court watchers worried that the justices' soaring rates of written dissents, nasty and personal attacks and scathing remarks read aloud from the bench bespeak a new toxicity in Supreme Court discourse."- Dahlia Lithwick In this case, the second definition is the one you're looking for.

[@alexandralim3381]

This was really informative and helpful, thank you

[@Aperson-62]

Great video. One thing I will also say though is that sometimes these games can have one overpowering or cheap strategy that works so well it essentially kills any play variety as every player ends up employing this strategy and it inherently makes the game less fun as anyone who wants to experiment and try out new things is just greeted with a bunch of tryhards who are just looking to win and will just play the best strategy that requires absolutely no skill whatsoever and takes the least amount of time to win with. It can be a somewhat feels bad moment when the designers haven't allowed for enough counter measures and so losing to these overpowered strategies can just increase salt and toxicity. As an example, in the Pokemon TCG right now there is a card that lets you tip the entire game in your favour by taking extra prize cards for the rest of the game. This card is super toxic because there's no way to remove the effect and the deck it's played in has this package and strategy in just 5 cards, meaning that the rest of the deck can cover every single possible weakness that the deck might have. Another card essentially negates all effort on the part of the opposing player by allowing the player of this overpowered strategy to essentially guarantee that they will be taking knockouts. The hilarious thing is though, is that when such a strategy has been stamped out people just complain that things aren't powerful enough because there's no easy winning strategy in the game anymore or any semblance of a balanced game gets distorted by all these people jumping on whatever seems trendy or the strategy of some popular KZbinr who covers said game. Essentially, it is really hard to play an online multiplayer game without having knowledge of the metagame because regardless if you want to or not, you wind up playing a competitive metagame and have to tailor your strategies to beat this.

[@tehxperience]

Toxicity isnt exclusive to video games, it is present in all anonymous mediums and the internet is just the biggest one - with video games containing the highest percentage of young men and being innately competitive - the conditions or 'toxicity fire triangle' are met more often. The problem is definitely much deeper than video games.

[@princeali4157]

@play gray well thats very honest

[@shiningaster3871]

This reminds me of my time with playing Smash 4 on the 3DS, where I taunt at the beginning on round and then wait for my opponent to taunt back, as a sort of greeting or good luck have fun. And the best part was when they choose to stay and we both taunt at the beginning of a new match and even after losing a stock. Those were some good times.

[@przemysawzanko6700]

Thanks for this video. It's nice to see this topic given some thought.

[@arcturus64]

Or yknow, make taunts that require another player (including players on the enemy team) to perform like in TF2 with the Hi Five, Square Dance, Flipping awesome etc

[@dava8058]

@B O ꓭ this is one year late but what he meant by TF2 is Team fortress 2

[@Marcel-qb9ge]

Video recommended 37 seconds after posted, nice

[@C4Dude3]

You still have to recognize, however, that individuals do play a large role in their own toxicity. A lack of effective avenues of communication and anonymity do make it easier for people to just be dick heads, yes, but at the end of the day people themselves still chose to be toxic. And toxicity isn’t just a small problem anymore either, nearly every multiplayer game you’ll play will have a sizable chunk of people who are just toxic. Too many people just actively decide to ruin the game of other players simply because they’re frustrated or are just verbally abusive because that’s just how they are. Yes the systems in games don’t help these issues but I think the individual being a general pos plays a much bigger role than this video implies.

[@Paweljarski]

Hi Adam - I just found your channel today and have found your videos thoroughly enjoyable and full of really interesting insights. Thank you!

[@Swamp_Hound]

really well done and well-spoken dude!

[@tuftyindigo]

You talk about voice comms in games as being a source of frustration, like it's an obstacle to playing the game - but often describing complex situations and giving unambiguous instructions can be an interesting game mechanic in itself. Look at the community playing milsim games without pings, for instance, or even Keep Talking And Nobody Explodes, which makes that into the main point of the game. I think SpyParty is another interesting data point. It only has text chat, but there's a very small community, and there's no matchmaking: you have to invite someone to play against you, and they have to accept the match. This creates a huge social pressure to play and communicate respectfully, because if you don't, nobody will play with you. Occasionally you see a new player who comes from other online games and just doesn't get it: they take trash talk over the line to rudeness, they time-waste or make other disrespectful actions, etc. Usually they last a week before you see a forum post asking "why won't anybody play with me?" Today's match-making systems are like the adult who tells kids if they don't include the bully in their game they're not allowed to play at all. By taking the element of consent away from the player, they remove that social pressure to be nice if you want people to keep including you in their fun.

[@Lugmillord]

1:14 For anyone interested: That game is called Unrailed. A friend of mine made some of the awesome music. Definitely worth checking out! Also, 14:37 was hilarious. I love your humor.

[@alvaro701]

It called my atention! thanks!

[@Tom-ll5qw]

Just for the record the final game shown is Verlet Swing, searching Velvet Swing (which is what the description says) will show something else entirely

[@ArchitectofGames]

whoops! my bad for the typo!

[@Evanz111]

“Filthy game maker’s toolkit fans” XD

[@aarond309]

I swear nobody noticed this!

[@pupiberto]

I really don't know if the interactions are more toxic or people are weaker than before. I loved to play Halo 3 and COD2 exactly because all the trash talk there, we tea bagged each other, talk shit to each other and laugh, great times.

[@spiceforspice3461]

Interactions tend to be less toxic nowadays, people just have thin skins. It's the first world problem of first world problems.

[@midgetman4206]

It sounds amazing

[@ravenfrancis1476]

"Gasp! People having empathy for each other and not being toxic assholes?! Such pathetic weaklings!"

[@spiceforspice3461]

@@ravenfrancis1476 yes

[@ravenfrancis1476]

Spice For Spice And you wonder why gaming has such a bad reputation

[@wulfherecyning1282]

The only way is by _encouraging_ better behavior. Discouraging toxic behavior through punishment leads to others (people who would have been good) turning toxic because we gamers don't like freedom being stripped away generally speaking, so some will turn to making every discussion a vector for anti-product hate, others will get in on the joke as a big F U. Reward the behavior you want more of, engage with positive fans often, address the issues critical fans bring up, and over time things get better. Or blanket ban everyone for saying mean things and watch your community die off.

[@wulfherecyning1282]

@Tactical Bacon Right, and I'm supporting that message by putting it in my own words.

[@alexparratt1030]

As a person who is auto muted in csgo I truly believe being toxic is just how games are. If someone trash talks you it makes you want to beat them. It is the best way of saying your trash and you need to get better.

[@SavageSquishy86]

It’s very possible to fix it, it boils down to accountability, community enforcement, and hard consequences that far outweigh the meager gains of being toxic in any degree. It boils down to “acceptable behavior”… if can’t be respectful then you can’t play. Probably heavy handed, but that is really the only way people learn in bulk over a community. Same goes with e-sports tournaments, violate rules; your either ejected or disqualified. Now apply that on a community body..

[@ethanotoroculus1060]

She climbs a tree and scrapes her knee Her dress has got a tear She waltzes on her way to Mass And whistles on the stair And underneath her wimple She has curlers in her hair I even heard her singing in the abbey She's always late for chapel But her penitence is real She's always late for everything Except for every meal I hate to have to say it But I very firmly feel Maria's not an asset to the abbey I'd like to say a word in her behalf Maria... makes me...laugh How do you solve a problem like Maria? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you find a word that means Maria? A flibbertigibbet! A will-o'-the wisp! A clown! Many a thing you know you'd like to tell her Many a thing she ought to understand But how do you make her stay And listen to all you say How do you keep a wave upon the sand? Oh, how do you solve a problem like Maria? How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand? When I'm with her I'm confused Out of focus and bemused And I never know exactly where I am Unpredictable as weather She's as flighty as a feather She's a darling! She's a demon! She's a lamb! She'd out pester any pest Drive a hornet from its nest She could throw a whirling dervish out of whirl She is gentle! She is wild! She's a riddle! She's a child! She's a headache! She's an angel! She's a girl! How do you solve a problem like Maria? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you find a word that means Maria? A flibbertigibbet! A will-o'-the wisp! A clown! Many a thing you know you'd like to tell her Many a thing she ought to understand But how do you make her stay And listen to all you say How do you keep a wave upon the sand Oh, how do you solve a problem like Maria? How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?

[@diegodevars4618]

On League of Legends, flaming your enemies rewards toxicity, because the enemies will most likely get frustrated and make more mistakes. And that is a big problem

[@houndofculann1793]

That's more of a problem for those who don't just mute their opponents when such a thing happens

[@houndofculann1793]

@jocaguz18 I've used it a couple of times to give advice for my opponents. A few of them even actually listened =D

[@houndofculann1793]

@jocaguz18 it is an answer, if it's not what you were looking for that's not my problem. While that's not something you might need to do, it is a conscructive use of an enemy chat feature. Anyway, if enemy chat was disabled by default, how would you get one to enable it when you'd have something to say to them?

[@houndofculann1793]

@jocaguz18 No, it isn't. You asked "Why?" and I gave a potential reason for why you'd want to chat with an opponent. I told you about a few occasions where talking with my opponent was constructive and enjoyable, how did that prove "talking with your enemy is never good" exactly? Edit: You also didn't give an answer on how would one get their opponent to turn on enemy chat if it was disabled by default

[@lukelblitz3627]

@jocaguz18 most pvp games DO have chats with the enemy if they do have chat at all. they are just separated by teams just like league is

[@ayanhart]

Thatgamecompany uses a very similar system in Sky: Children of the Light - you can call, jump, run and fly and deep calls recharge your cape like they do your scarf in Journey. Again, in the final level (akin to the snow level) it's actively beneficial to have someone nearby to honk to recharge you (the game warns you about going in alone before you enter). Calling is also often spammed to get the attention of others on the server, for example when trying to open multiplayer doors. But they also have collectable emotes you can get, though these can be slow to use once you get a long list of them and some are only available during specific times (events and/or from travelling spirits). The most commonly used one is definitely the 'bow' that is used as a way to say thank you - for helping open doors, recharging light etc. You can also hold hands with players on your friend list (and do other things like high-five, hugging or piggy-back if you upgrade your friendship), allowing more experienced players to literally offer a helping hand to newbies (or Moths, as they've been nicknamed) and show them secrets and rewards they might not otherwise find. I've been playing for a few months now and I've seen very little griefing - I've only seen it once, a player AFK-ing in the 8 person puzzle room (servers are capped at 8 people and the aforementioned puzzle and Oreo candles require 8 people to complete, so them AFK-ing makes it impossible to do so).

[@lachlanmccormick3486]

OH! I didn't realize it's capped at 8 people! Now I feel like a dunce loitering there.

[@rarebeeph1783]

games with a "gg" button after the match end up having it be used so frequently that it becomes the default, and people can then be toxic by refusing to use it

[@Dionysus24779]

Journey is one of the best examples to show how games are art, I'm so glad it's on Steam now.

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

Voice is simply the only realiable way to communicate complex strategy quickly. Pre-recorded messages may be fine for simple callouts, but anything that can't be said in a simple object-verb-location structure needs full voice. There is just no way around it

[@mwbgaming28]

Easy way to avoid "toxicity" in games I'll use a source game as an example Hold tab, select the player you don't want to hear, click mute, release tab, play game

[@gwillis01]

Thank you very much for this video. It is a true masterpiece. I am glad that you posted this video.

[@RattCath]

Hi-Rez still uses an adapted version of the VGS system for Smite and Paladins both of which are still alive, but especially the latter has people playing it that can still be quite toxic. I'd say that it isn't possible to make people not toxic by just implementing a different form of communication. Every system I can think of is abusable in some way shape or form. Though the best thing that can be done is to just not encourage toxic behavior from other players. In my experience in multiplayer games toxicity usually goes from the streamers and pro players down to everyone else with multiplied effects as it goes down.

[@charizard7666]

'need healing!' 'need healing!' 'need healing!' 'help!' 'help!' 'capture the objective!' 'capture the objective!' Its incredible that one player can say all this in about 0.5 seconds after dying.

[@RattCath]

@@charizard7666 Yep.

[@Nemesis85040]

VER

[@mathieupr6391]

That's why I love the Dark Souls community so much. Of course there are massive assholes and such, but most people are surprisingly chill. I can't count the amount of times I invaded someone (or got invaded), expected a fight to the death, and then after a couple of waves, shield dance and spinning around, we're just walking through the level and doing stupid things, or just leaving the host alone to not be a nuisance in their game. Especially the purple spirits. Feels like the covenant was made specifically for people that jst want to dick around with no allegiance

[@joshgrant6873]

That was my experience until I played Dark Souls 3. That area right after the second bonfire where you go down the tower and there’s the guy that turns into a rat monster on the roof has always invading douchebags that just sit in a really cheap location and make it impossible to progress without going through them. I like playing games with my friends, and I’m crap at PvP, so we’d like to be able to just go through it together as a group, but we’ve had ourselves get camped and killed as an entire group of up to three people so many times because the more people you’re allowed to have, the more invaders you can have at once and apparently it’s the most popular spot in the game for invading because it’s so easy to exploit people.

[@AcencialAMV]

Bro, you reminded me of Tribes and now I have depression, thanks. Jokes aside, love the vid, can't wait to check out the rest of your channel, thanks yt reccs

[@MikeTXBC]

This reminds me of Asheron's Call, an MMO that was released in 1999. It had a unique cooperative game mechanic in that it rewarded experienced higher level players who acted as mentors to inexperienced lower level players. This massively cut down on the rampant asshattery that plagued other MMOs. Sure, some people "gamed" the system by helping players just to receive rewards (and sometimes this meant friends would create low-level characters just to assist one another), but for the most part, players seem to genuinely want to help each other. Although Asheron's Call was never as popular or successful as other better-known MMOs (e.g. Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars), the servers managed to stay active until January 31, 2017. All in all, an eighteen year run isn't too bad for a mostly forgotten MMO.