Is the Raspberry Pi 4 really that bad?

[@MadeWithLayers]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out that I actually tested against a Raspberry Pi 2, not the 3! I had always been under the impression that I owned a 3. Sorry about that. The Raspberry 3 came with only about a 30% performance increase over the 2, so the results should be similar (but not identical). Still, the Pi 4 still has a massive edge over the previous generations!

[@mikeharo2568]

I was wondering about that myself, I was thinking you might have a 3B+. I've had just 3B's and have never had or seen the sd card 'click' capability on any of mine. So maybe that option was only on the 2's?

[@ftrueck]

the rpi 3 also has the sd reader downgrade. so no bummer. to be honest: i do not need the click

[@chriscontact5857]

The 2 is great for a scif and those super secret builds when your a yt star and don't want big business, or 4chan users with too much time, to steal your IP. Just dont forget the Faraday cage. I would use sheet copper and cut round holes in it for a start, but I am an arm chair paranoid and have no idea what I am talking about.

[@AndrewGillard]

@@chriscontact5857 … wut?

[@chriscontact5857]

@@AndrewGillard Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility = SCIF pronounced SK-if. I just wish Pi ii was 64 bit. Hey you can always cluster it. You might be able to de-solder the wifi antenna from some of the later Pi's, but hey if your a propper arm chair paranoid, you are worried because the architecture is still there. Just say'n.

[@tyrgoossens]

That's not a "dashboard" my man. That's the entire friggin' windshield.

[@M0rdH0rst]

It's just a little oversized smartphone, without the phone function. Or can you use it as a phone? 😂

[@beskamir5977]

@@M0rdH0rst With how phones just keep getting bigger and bigger I'd say that's a phone from the 2040s.

[@oleurgast730]

@@M0rdH0rst Of course you can add phone functionality. Simply add mic and install VoIP-software. You should add touch functionality too. And of course a lte-stick for mobile internet and a car battery to make it "mobile" ;-)

[@CrisCheese_]

@@M0rdH0rst you can with the right accessories xD

[@AndersJackson]

@@oleurgast730 that is basically how large mobile phones was in the begining. When you needed a car to move it around. That was without a CRT screen or Teletype.

[@junton]

-Do you need 4K TV for displaying clock and calendar on wall? -No but yes

[@leoalmeida2583]

The question should be: Do you really need to display clock and calendar on wall?

[@WahlVids]

@@leoalmeida2583 Wristwatch: Do you really need a wall to display a clock and calendar?

[@OwenPrescott]

Do you really need a wall?

[@jensdroessler3575]

Phhh, probably not even touchscreen

[@ibbydoesstuff9459]

What's a wall?

[@jvleugels]

The micro SD not clicking anymore was already on the pi 3 as well. Their reasoning is that many people complained about the sd card jumping out when being bumped. Now without the spring you specifically have to pull to get it out. So Yeah, I am with you that i liked the springy version better. But hearing their reasoning i perfectly get the point.

[@mrjackson2k]

The 3B+ is when they removed the ejecting SD slot.

[@JeppeBeier]

@@mrjackson2k The 3B didn't have a spring either

[@bootyholeman5659]

Some had the clicky slots, some didn't.

[@TheNefastor]

The Pi Zero also doesn't have a spring.

[@AugurIliKur]

I've had a few of the Pi2 stop clicking and have had to hold the card in with tape. That is a real pain. I would much rather have a friction fit. It can permanently break the slot if someone who doesn't know any better comes along and yanks the SD card out. Or tries to force it in the wrong way.

[@fw4809]

Genuinely expected a Linus-moment when you picked up the TV.

[@SlitheringDemon]

Eh, don't trust a book by it's cover trust a book by it's title 😜😜

[@piestudios4400]

give this man a medal

[@chrisding1976]

*flashbacks to when he dropped a $10,000 cpu*

[@Brandon-iu4ot]

A little annoyed that the image for this said, “is the RasPi 4 better for 3D printing?” And then this is a 20 min video that’s unrelated to 3D printing.

[@EldarKinSlayer]

I'd really like to know how the 4B does with Klipper.

[@ErikLegerstee]

Indeed i made that mistake and i'm running now the raspberry 4 on my Octoprint. After a few prints the Pi 4 IS NOT better (at this time 2-10-2019). Pi camera hangs, Updating does not work (as it is not supported yet) and temperature measurement (through GPIO) for enclosure does NOT work. I probably going to put back the Pi 3 asap. Sorry Tom like 99% of your videos but this one is not helping much ;-) still cheers and thanks for all the other 99%!! :-D

[@ratstarone]

@@ErikLegerstee I'm thinking about getting a raspberry pi 3 or 4 for my octoprint so I can monitor my two CR10 S4 and S5. What do you suggest?

[@guopeneferozz]

Thanks Patreon! Now I can use a 4k huge TV as a thermometer :D

[@lunatik9696]

LOL

[@Tchipo100]

jose gonzales huu

[@Paleski]

That moment when a hand sized computer has better specs than your PC.

[@MikaelMurstam]

I doubt it, unless you are talking about the 4k capability. That's just pure GPU. You most likely have better CPU.

[@rodolfogarza8947]

You need a better pc.

[@wikwayer]

I Hope you get 35 dollar

[@richardwicks4190]

@@wikwayer Total system is around $100. First, you want a the 4GB version of the Pi4 - that's $55, a good case, that's $15, a 128 GB SD Card, $20, and a good power supply, that's $10. I'd recommend the Flirc case for the both the pi 3 and 4.

[@wikwayer]

@@richardwicks4190 well that escalated quickly

[@elfpimp1]

I'm mad! I wanted a raspberry PI 3.14159........ 😡

[@AndersJackson]

Oh, like the version number of TeX, which is based on $\pi$. You never run out of version digits. And \LaTeX{} uses $\mathrm{e}$ for the same reason. It never run out of version digits. :-)

[@elfpimp1]

@ hahaha! Good one!

[@sanjaymaheshwari1171]

:)

[@RittickBiswas]

that is irrational of you

[@maksymushka]

Wow! Didn't know there was a 4th version out! Thanks for your time and dedication to review the board!

[@markusaltendorff]

One huge step forward for my Octoprint was to use a SSD via USB as the boot volume. Even a cheap 120 GB SSD for less than 20 € has increased the "felt fun" of using Octopi by at least 200% (not even counting the peace of mind that timelapses won't fill up the storage easily)

[@stuartg40]

"Micro" should be reserved for the board and its surface-mounted components. The ports should be as big and robust as possible because that's where the rubber meets the road.

[@4203105]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill them cost-wise if the board would have to be 2cm bigger because of it. Cases aren't backwards compatible anymore anyway.

[@PatRichards58]

pi 4 actual runs Ethernet at 1 gig pi 3 doesn't I suspect thatch a big part of the difference

[@SianaGearz]

Octopi UI isn't that big for it to matter.

[@edcooper2396]

I doubt it, it's streaming a single basic web interface.

[@9001greg]

@@soundspark Yes but octoprint needs like 0.5mbps to load instantly.

[@Gagliano17]

Pat Richards the pi 3b+ has gigabit too i think, just the 3B has 300mps, i ran in to that issue, i had slow upload of my cam feed and only then found out its because i had the 3b and not the 3b+

[@BrainSlugs83]

There's videos that show you can overclock the PI 4 up to 2 GHz with appropriate cooling (no your flirc case or 4mm heatsink isn't going to work. The coolers are similar to what you saw on a 486 DX2, still tiny, but makes a huge difference).

[@RockyBMusic]

for me, the most valuable asset of the Pi4 is the Gigabit Lan, it works much faster with my NAS than the PI 3 with its local drive.

[@Diggnuts]

Indeed combined with the USB3, the RPi4 actually is a serious contender for NAS solutions.

[@9001greg]

Yep, USB3 + gigabit lan makes it actually usable as a NAS now.

[@jamescasimir726]

I got an odroid xu4 years ago. Its had the gigabit lan and an because of the arm architecture runs all raspi os/apps. It's basically the stats of the raspi 4, idk why you waited for the 4

[@Diggnuts]

It is not about maximum performance so much as it is about reliable supply, demand and community. No odroid is a drop-in replacement for my RPi projects.

[@jamescasimir726]

@@Diggnuts for me it was literally a drop in replacement my pi. As it runs the exact same software (dietpi) and as such has the exact same community support as the pi.

[@5Komma5]

you can press "1" in top to see the individual cores. Makes for a better presentation since you can show moa cores

[@redpillcommando]

Dude - I learned a new trick! Thanks for that. I bet you read the man page. :-)

[@Mobile_Dom]

also with the microSD thing, its a super annoying thing to regress on, but it wasnt just a money saving this, the old style latching one had issues of scratching the terminals on microSD cards and the'd get stuck a lot etc. but i still miss it.

[@TheDro]

3:50 outside of "to make more money", I have always wondered why windows and mac os weren't set up this way. I should be able to simply remove my drive, put it in a new computer with faster hardware and just have it boot up and install new updated drivers for what ever is necessary and auto remove the old...

[@FunnyPhisto]

Afaik Mac OS is set up that way. I changed drives so many times between macs and they always worked without any additional work necessary.

[@lpburke86]

I do.... *exactly* that with Windows... Been doing it *exactly* that way for 12 years. And considering the comment from fosch.... Maybe you just don't know computers as well as you think you do....

[@FunnyPhisto]

@@lpburke86 Good to know. Always did a fresh install on my Windows machines. Seems like I can save me the hassle of this procedure in the future. Thank you.

[@lpburke86]

@@FunnyPhisto Yep. Its not as simple as it is on Macs, you have to boot safe mode and install the drivers... But that's really it. Had he not said "install new updated drivers", his comment may have had *some* validity. Not much... But some.

[@butre.]

@@lpburke86 if you're using the default windows drivers you don't even need to do that

[@smrogers4155]

Tom, thank you for sharing this. I'm still using the first 512mb Pi 1 B for my octoprint server. I have been wondering how much better one of the newer pis would be and you answered that question wonderfully. You talked about never seeing throttling with practical use on the Pi 3 or Pi 4, when running emulation station on a pi 3, if you don't have a heat sink then the cores will get hot enough to throw out a temp warning and begin throttling. Again thank you!

[@yope01]

Thanks for the great video. There are three things that I wanted to note: 1. When you load a power supply, you get a voltage drop over the cable and on the output of the power supply itself. But power supplies differ in output voltage, which is important to consider in your test. For example, let's say you have two 1.8A power supplies, and the rpi board gives an undervoltage signal at 4.3V (suppose). At maximum current, the cable you use has a drop of 0.8V (suppose). Then if one power supply has an output voltage of exactly 5.0V (at 1.8A), you will get throttling. OTOH, if the other power supply delivers 5.2V (at 1.8A), it will work just fine. More often than not, it is the voltage drop over cheap cables that causes throttling, and in those cases, a 5.3V supply helps a great deal (so do good cables). Sometimes they specify the exact output voltage, and some actually are 5.3V. Important specification to watch out for when shopping. 2. The fact that you could run the same OS image on all three boards means that your OS (probably all official raspbian versions) are still using the ARMv6 instruction set, which not only is 32bit, but also doesn't even use NEON instructions among others. This is actually pretty wasteful, because an ARMv8 compiled OS (64bit) would actually get much more performance out of the rpi4. 3. Unlike you (lol), I do have a raspberry pi 3, and without heat-sink it suffers from thermal throttling when loaded heavily. From what I had read, the rpi4 draws a lot more current, so it should get even hotter. I ordered mine already and included a big heat-sink just in case.

[@AndersJackson]

1. Yes, I do agree with you 2. RP foundation are clear that they used the 64 bit ARM as a faster version of 32 bit ARM. That is by design. So yes, you can move the same image between the different boards. (Hunches on) I have some memory about that when booting the first time, the Raspbian configure and adapt to the board type, so it might be a problem to pop out of RPi 4 and into RPi 1 and boot. (Hunches off) About NEON, that can be detected at run time and be used in those machine and libraries that need that. But I don't know about that one. 3. He said that it did throttle on artificial load, but not on his real time load. Which would be true. The RPi 4 get things done faster, and thus have shorter times of heat generating time compared to RPi 3 and RPi 1. So it has more time to cool down in real time applications, which would compensate for that higher top current running time. The firmware was improved to cool down the CPU more after the first release of Raspbian. (4. And from RPi 3, you can boot of USB stick or over network, which would be faster, especially if you use the WiFi, as it uses another data path then what is shared with USB and Ethernet on RPi 3, don't remember about RPi 4, but should be looked up)

[@TheDiogoLive]

DAAAAMN i just discovered the MPCNC and i'm very happy you are doing videos about it! Can't wait!

[@bartz0rt928]

About that USB wattmeter: I've recently bought a UMC25c (lots of different brands) that seems a lot better in terms of how much it can handle, and it has some power logging built in. It even connects to a pc over bluetooth, but the app is kinda limited. Since it uses serial over bluetooth though, I figure it should be possible to find out how to query it and then write a better logging app. Haven't gotten around to that though.

[@kataseiko]

Can I solder the "clicky" SD card slot into the footprint of the "non-clicky" Raspberry 4 card slot?

[@deanwoodyatt1891]

Yes you can! It’s tricky to unsolder the old one though

[@aleksandrbmelnikov]

Break the plastic and desolder one pin at a time.

[@Lordofrimgs]

18:20 you are using a pi only for making videos or to set and forget purposes? You will never know why that "no-click" SD card slot is a bliss

[@DamienRobertsonYYC]

I went with poe for my 3b+, rather than the USB connection. I would do the same for the 4. Such an easier way to run the system, and you can pull real time power usage from the switch.

[@benjamindeiss9840]

Calender states "MPCNC build" ... can't wait to see, I just reworked mine from RAMPs to Estlcam with seperate motor drivers

[@slh561]

When I run Octoprint with a webcam (Logi C615) and set the Resolution to 1920x1080 @ 30fps on a Raspberry Pi 3 B and B+ I get thermal throttling. I'm curious if a Pi 4 would be able to handle streaming with that resolution. Good video on the new Pi

[@chrisb9319]

I've been using the mini HDMI port on my Yoga 2 Pro for 6 years now. Plugging in 2 times a day. Still works like a charm.

[@ormanmarvin]

Good for you, but the Pi 4 is equipped with Micro HDMI ports, not mini.

[@chrisb9319]

@@ormanmarvin Sorry, that's what I meant. My ultrabook has a micro HDMI port the same as the Pi 4 has two of. Those things do last a long time.

[@beauslim]

My local supplier finally got some Pi4s in, and I grabbed one late last week. With all the negative hype, I expected problems. I put one of those little $1 Pi heat sinks on it, and used the 2.5A power supply that came with my Pi3B and a micro-SD to C adapter. Did the recommended firmware update. It is totally fine. No throttling. No low-power warnings. No problems powering an external (mechanical) HD. I think that firmware update resolved whatever people were complaining about.

[@EdwinvandenAkker]

4:22 If the SD is the bottleneck for boot-speed... isn't it time that the Raspberry Pi 5 adds MMC support?

[@tubeDude48]

How about some detail of the thermal camera? Where's the link for the *python* *code* ?

[@ScottLahteine]

It’s a good time for small boards. Not only is the super-fast RPi 4 out, the Teensy 4.0 running at 600MHz was also just announced. What to do with all this new compact power?

That teensy seems crazy. I have no idea what would need that kind of performance in that format, but hey it is cool!

[@kevfquinn]

There must be people out there trying it - but with two display outputs and sizeable compute capacity it should nicely function as an all-up board for a resin DLP printer, just needs a little hat to drive the z stepper. And a bunch of software, of course, but the pieces are all out there...

[@Zelrick42]

On the USB C cables, they are currently a mess, several different standards and no clear marketing to know what you're getting. For instance, my GoPro won't transfer data over a Samsung phone cable or any other USB C cable I had in the cable box, but $20 for a 1m AmazonBasics USB Type-C to USB Type-C 3.1 Gen1 and everything works properly. I haven't looked into the problems with the Pi4 and USB C, but I would suspect that it's got a lot to do with cables that don't meet the proper spec.

[@rondlh20]

The Pi 4 just needs a little heat sink, then it works great. A 3 amp power supply is recommended

[@pippoppeo6903]

actually, a small heatsink doesnt help with temperatures. there was a chart on reddit where someone tested some thermal-solutions.

[@rondlh20]

@@pippoppeo6903 I recommend you try it with you computer's CPU, and let me know your results

[@k98killer]

@@rondlh20 Have you tested your RPi4 heatsink hypothesis? How much of an improvement in throttling have you noticed?

[@rondlh20]

@@k98killer I've not tested it myself. You can check the channel "ExplainingComputers", there are many heat sink reviews, and the results are always the same...

[@NaeMuckle]

Explaining computers said use active cooling.

[@Ben-ry1py]

You can afford to have a 4K tv just to display the weather, and you don't put even a rudimentary heatsink on the SOC? I'm moving on...

[@MikaelMurstam]

Tests show that a heatsink barely does anything to the RPi4. A fan however, works great with or without a heat sink.

[@Ben-ry1py]

@@MikaelMurstam Makes sense. would be better than nothing though, but a fan sounds like a win. cost a few bucks. I don't understand why people don't like cooling their silicon on these little boards. They are a lot more powerful than RP1.

[@SophiepTran]

It depends on the application. I was able to get my pi3B to 1.825 GHz stable with an old AMD CPU heatsink and fan on my test rig. Heard people have gotten their Pi4s to 2Ghz no problem. Haven't pulled the trigger on a Pi4 yet but when I do, I'll be looking to retrofit a laptop CPU heat pipes for the task.

[@Ben-ry1py]

@@SophiepTran 1.825ghz is good for a RP3. You don't need a big heat-sink as long as you have a fan. 2ghz doesn't seem to be hard to hit with this new SOC. Good luck, and have fun!

[@4203105]

@@MikaelMurstam I have a flirc case, where the whole case works as a heat sink. Keeps the soc nice and cool. So watcha talking about?

[@ozcanison]

The uSD card slot "downgrade" to the non springy version is an upgrade in my opinion. I have 2x Pi 3B's that I cant use because the retaining clip part of the connector is broken, and the card wont stay in the slot. Any card inserted just springs back out. They're otherwise working boards but cant use them if the card wont stay in. Im fairly sure the decision to go with the non spring version was specifically because of that issue, not just a cost saving measure.

[@ormanmarvin]

Just wedge in a thin piece of plastic to hold it in place, or simply tape it down.

[@Designguidetv]

I can say from experience, do not use USB cables for power, barrel connector can provide higher amps, especially when running external drives and other accessories.

[@scotthamilton228]

3:53 actually no, the rpi4 at least isn't compatible with old 2018 raspbian version for example

[@AndersJackson]

Of course, it didn't existed back then. But who run that old software?

[@scotthamilton228]

@@AndersJackson Me, 2018 isn't that far for a lot of people. For example let's say you've installed raspbian in 2018 on a rpi 3b+. Now we are in 2019, you've bought the new rpi4 and you took the SD card of the old rpi3b+ to the new rpi4 and the thing will never boot. Just to say that the problem is easy to get and quite complicated for beginners to debug so I think it's worth pointing it out.

[@AndersJackson]

@@scotthamilton228 ok, a valid point.

[@DrFunFong]

Bottom line - use a fan + heatsink. I finally got my 4GB Pi4 and feel that it definitely can be used as a usable desktop substitute! One can load Libre Elec OS simultaneously, dual boot the Pi. Works well as a media center except actual 4K might be problematic. I have not tried 4K yet and heard that 4K for media center uses may not be practical on the Pi4. Otherwise, it seems to work well!

[@DerSolinski]

Manufacturing proper USB-C cables is pricey since it is still a very finicky process with a lot of manual steps and supervision. "Power cables" on the other hand are not, since they don't bother hooking up all the available pins and bridge some stuff together. That's still fine spec wise but you don't get any data through that.

[@twinturbostang]

3:50: Not true all the time. I obtained a SD Image from a RPi 3 B and tried to run it on my RPi 3 B+ and it would not work. Tried multiple times. Tried different SD cards. etc. Nothing. The B+ has different hardware and that's why it wouldn't work.

[@nikobellic570]

The raspbian operating images are backwards compatible, not forward. So a 3b-era image won't work in a pi 3b+, but an image created or updated after the 3b+ launched will work in all previous models

[@VoltexRB]

Do you really need your weather in 4K though?

[@MadeWithLayers]

1080p up-close on a 43" screen is unbearable 😅

[@ts3dprints732]

Your going to do a video on your TV project right? You could put a 3d printed case in it just to keep the 3d printing theme.

[@MadeWithLayers]

There will be 3D printed parts in it, but I'm trying to show more of the projects I do on the channel - even if they're not directly 3D printing related. I feel like so many projects and methods mesh really well with 3D printing, so I'm hoping to inspire some folks to expand their horizon 😉

[@ciaduck]

You should rerun your boot time test using USBs. SD cards are known to be slower, especially on the Pi.

[@bepstein111]

The Raspi4 suggests a minimum of 3A for its power supplies AFAIK. In my experience, it can be pretty picky in terms of supplies/cables, so your findings are very interesting to me. Will have to do some more playing around....I believe that use of USB 3 would immediately increase power demand, but will have to find out...

[@kuoster]

USC-C can output DisplayPort signals, but it would need a converter to output HDMI signals. 🤔

[@azbesthu]

No. Not all type-c ports have all kind of alternate functionality. In case of Pi4B it is power input and usb2.0 otg/gadget mode link to the soc.

[@TheDillynator]

This usb type C is not rated to USB standards. It's one of the main problems. Secondly, it's not on output on this device. Just an input

[@kuoster]

@@azbesthu Oops, sorry, I was not clear at all on what I wanted to say. I was trying to reply to what Tom said about the HDMI outputs. :)

[@xaytana]

@@kuoster Just like there's DP alt mode for type C, there's also an HDMI alt mode. And if dual mode DP (DP++) is used, a passive DP-HDMI cable can be used, only single mode DP needs an active converter to convert DP to HDMI; though the same is not true in reverse, HDMI to DP always needs an active converter.

[@Sundheden]

Metal surface CPU actually gives a huge advantage with placing a heat sink on it. Instead of the conductive tape on the old ones you could get on any china site for a dollar can now be applied with proper thermal paste instead!

[@JordanNeenan]

It's the Pi 4 USB-C that isn't made to spec. They did something funky with the power delivery detection so only certain chargers and cables work. So for me, my Macbook Pro charger doesn't work, but my Pixel 3 charger does, as does my old Nexus 6P charger.

[@spuds7677]

If I'm not mistaken, the Pi 3b+ also had the sliding micro SD card slot and not the click one. I know people use to have issues with SD cards failing until they went to the 3b+. That may be the reason they replaced it.

[@salvadorjalife4569]

Did you try reversing the side on the USB C cable that doesn't work? Some cable / connectors have issues with that

[@mikescholz6429]

Wtf? I have 3 pi3b+, and none of them have clicky microsd slots

[@twiddler71]

It's the Pi3 B. Not +

[@TheAppleFreak]

@@twiddler71 Tom was actually testing the Pi 2, not the 3. Both the 3 and the 3B+ lack the springy SD card slot, just like the Pi 4.

[@twiddler71]

@@TheAppleFreak You could be right. If that's the case, we don't really know how the Pi 3 compares with the Pi 4 in these tests.

[@JeppeBeier]

@@twiddler71 I'm pretty sure he's right. None of my Pi3B have a springy SD slot

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

The foundation said the USB-C resistor issue will be corrected in a later update, and that's my only technical beef with the Pi4 since most of my kit uses USB PD chargers. Once that's in the wild, I'll grab a couple of 4 gig Pis for media servers. USB 3 external storage, baby.

[@alex.germany]

Test this with Repetier Server. Nearly no load while streaming to printer. The interface shows up instantly. It’s weird, that OctoPrint uses so much CPU... I also render models in the background while printing without any issues. And a camera is also connected. (RPi3)...

[@Fresco272]

And you can connect more than just one printer at the same time to the single Raspberry with Repetier Server plus touchscreen.

[@dinnerandashow]

In a way I glad the RP 4 is just a small incremental upgrade. Why? Because I have a bunch of RP 3's. However, I am hopeful the next Pi Zero will at least have a dual core and 1GB RAM.

[@puchmaximaximierer1913]

That would be amazing :)

[@TheUtuber999]

18:20 It's called "spring-loaded..." and the Model 3B Plus SD card slot wasn't spring-loaded, either. Did you not know that?

[@matteoreiter]

My Raspberry Pi 3B also doesn't have a click-in micro SD slot. I wonder if they just use what is available at the moment...

[@Happy-or4wt]

It was intentional. People complained about the Raspberry Pi's SD card jumping out when it bumped against something. That doesn't happen without click in, which is why the 3B and 4 don't have it.

[@CyberDunk2077]

3D print a wall bracket for mounting that display vertically....?

[@nepcros]

Aren't you worried about burn in on the screen?

[@danielsuppes3948]

Great comparison and review. Very informative. Thank you for taking the time out to do this. I am now a subscriber.

[@ericzwirnmann8151]

Cheaper usb cables have lower gauge wires which cannot handle the current needed for the newer RPis.

[@kojote]

That's the reason my Samsung is loading so slow on that shitty cable I think

[@jswallet]

Great comparison. Thank you. I remember switching from RBP1 to 3 because of printer issues and it solved them. The 4 seems cool, but not compelling enough to replace my RBP3 that’s dedicated to Octoprint.

[@km5405]

that begs the question - could you use it to bake a pie?

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

DIY toaster oven controller?

[@BLBlackDragon]

A Pi pie? Pi squared? Pie are not squared. Pie are round. Cornbread are square. (sorry... I'm seriously in Friday mode)

[@km5405]

challenge accepted. to make a square pie that is 3.14159265359 inches by 3.14159265359 inches by 3.14159265359 inches.

[@KrishnaVijayraman]

Kevin Miedema uh no that’s pi cubed

[@km5405]

ill top it off by making it a 4D hyperpie that is perfectly square from every direction you view it in 3d space.

[@MikeR1234]

What are you using to display your calendar? I am super interesting in that as I want to do the exactly same thing.

[@ChitosVids]

ive been thinking of doing the same and turning it into a smart mirror. but what ive found is pretty old so i would love to see how Thomas does it

[@anonym7500]

It looks like DAKboard

[@Anonymouspock]

He's posted about it on his Twitter.

[@pyjamasam]

Ya its DAKboard

[@MirkWoot]

Nice. BUT, the temperature also depends ofcourse on where the raspberry is installed, if behind a already hot TV or elsewhere where people may typically have it, or country climate even maybe.

[@IronCross82]

Just a quick question that I have not been able to find the answer to can a Raspberry Pi run vinyl cutter / plotter?

[@theblackgoatofthewoods]

Would it not have been better if they had added a second micro Sdholder instead of a second hdmiport? That way you could have two boots loaded and ready so you dont need to swap cards if you wanna have two diffrent things. Dont think a normal user needs more then one screen at the time

[@fetchstixRHD]

I don't think the second HDMI was aimed for "normal people", but more for those who run display/notice boards and stuff like that, or at least that was the reasoning someone else mentioned.

[@theblackgoatofthewoods]

@@fetchstixRHD True... But you agree a second sd would be nice?

[@jmonsted]

The newer pis could potentially be even faster if raspbian (and its derivatives) used a 64 bit build. That would rule out it working on the old pis, though.

[@technoe02]

Have you considered running Octoprint via a container? Docker runs really well on raspberry pi 4.

[@Hackenberg]

Tried a total of five Raspberry Pi 4 B units with Librelec Kodi. J06 has video flashing and cutout issues. J13 on all units did not output sound. After two days of messing around, I came to the conclusion that my old Windows machines are not going anywhere soon.

[@lifehackertips]

5:00 I really wish you would have covered transfer times of gcode. I bought Pi Zero because they were only $5 but the transfer over wifi seems like forever to the printers. I don't know if it's the pi zero, network, or otcoprint that's causing the slow speeds.

[@Styxen]

Where did you find that dashboard with the temp. time and calendar? Would love to use it with my Pi

[@Asdayasman]

You could make it in a day or so with something like React.

[@consig1iere294]

Someone seriously needs to do a benchmark between Rock64 4GB with RPi 4 4GB.

[@noodles9935]

I own both, The Pi 4 wipes the floor with it, The USB3 gets faster transfer rates, The Ethernet gets faster transfer rates. The SD slot can actually utilize UHS speeds so it doubles the biggest bottleneck the Rock64 has. The biggest win for me is the software/Drive/Device support is much better.

[@AndersJackson]

Seriously, the Rock is decent hardware, but it doesn't have the software support. That is a big no no on ANY Rpi killer board. An real issue that many misses or don't understand. Yes, I do have two Rock cards...

[@jwrtiger]

Just got a Raspberry Pi 4. Thank you for this great video. Well produced and very informative.

[@Cyberplayer5]

There are several specs for the USB 3 C type cable. One spec is for a power supply cable such as your laptop. I think the capacity is 100 Watts.

[@aellis6692]

Hey I just wanted to let you know i am using a pi 4 for octoprint and I had thermal throttling and had to ad a fan I had heatsinks on already I think it is when the pi makes a timelapse video that the throttle happens

[@ashovav13]

great video thanks ! I need to run OpenCV on the PI for face detection and it takes almost 100% of all cores. I am using a 3.5 amps power supply and I am looking for the same output in a batery. I could not find any battery delivering 3.5 amps/5 V. Any idea ? Thanks !

[@bernardthongvanh5613]

I stopped printing from octoprint because it stuttered in round surfaces, apparently it's a problem with the serial transmission bandwith not the actual computation power of the raspberry, since then I print via sd-card, the prints are much more clean.

[@jirij]

Hey Tom, how does that single-image-multiple-architectures work? Is it really using the ancient ARMv6 instructions everywhere? ... Or does it run in 64bit mode on RPi 3 and 4? ... When we were building an embedded application for their Compute Module 3 (based off RPi 3), using a 64bit kernel and telling the compiler to use instructions for ARMv8 (along with compiling it for 64bit), we managed to get about 30-40% better performance in CPU intensive tasks while running a Qt5 UI, which was also noticeably more responsive than (back then) default 32bit Raspian.

[@ManuelMcLure]

At least for Raspbian (which Octopi is based on) it still uses the 32-bit instruction set even on processors that support 64-bit mode. I believe that the Raspbian developer's rationale is that the performance improvements from going to 64-bit aren't sufficient to make it worth losing compatibility with older ARM processors. Also, because 64-bit software uses 64-bit pointers, it tends to use more RAM than the equivalent 32-bit software which becomes an issue on RAM-limited systems like the RPi. There are 64-bit ports of Linux for the RPi (lke pi64) but don't expect to see Octopi using them any time soon.

[@amoose136]

Since the USB tester didn't work you probably would need an inline 1 ohm precision power resistor and an oscilloscope to determine power usage without disrupting the Pis.

[@EcksGamer]

Wouldn't it have been wiser to use the terminal to test out the temps on the Pi 4 because the tape that you placed on the Pi could also be the reason why it is heating up so much.

[@rjc0234]

I have been very let down recently with Ankers USB-C PD range, both the cables and the chargers.

[@bentarr17]

I've had nothing but good experiences with Anker... what issues did you have?

[@rjc0234]

@@bentarr17 Anker won't use non Anker cables, charging power constantly turning on and off on my laptop. All the other normal 5V USB and QC stuff has been amazing, their PD stuff needs some serious work

[@bentarr17]

rjc0234 I’m using an Anker cable with an Aukey pd supply, it works beautifully. As well as using anker power supplies with AmazonBasics cables which also works great. Maybe contact their customer service.

[@matneu27]

After many weeks of waiting I got my first pi4 4gb 😔 not sure if I "waste" it on such a octoptint server. Rather think on Kodi or home automation because of the Ram. Anyway i had a big improvement in performance switching from the Pi2 to the Pi3. Also the pi3 is becoming cheaper and my recommendation for the octoptint without any negative issues.

[@androidtakeaway5446]

Why use such a big panel for something paper can do just fine? Or a whiteboard? Apart from that, you may want to hang some sound absorption on the ceiling and side walls to counter the echo. What are those panels on the back wall behind you? I'm curious.

[@9001greg]

4 actually boots slower, it has more checks it does before boot initializing. A simple heatsink solves majority heat issues, a fan is required if you're maxing the CPU for long periods but mine doesn't reach over 48C with a 50 cent 30x30 fan from aliexpress.

[@iamkaioken]

Just stumbled on this. My man! Thanks for posting. Finally gonna get some time to put the pi4 through its paces and I'm excited. Bright future for Pi Foundation.

[@AlekseyNapolskih]

Nice video! What camera is Thomas using? The image is great!

[@brucehirsch5437]

you have a working build for Octo print for the Pi4? Please direct me to a link where you obtained this copy?

[@ozusozudogruinsan]

Why did they not incorporate a RTC with battery into the PCB? Is the price justified for what you are getting? What does it cost for the manufacturer to manufacture a R. Pi 4? and what is the markup? I am still not satisfied with temperatures you are running it at and the manufacturer should have included a heatsink and a fan for the cpu. These are all cost cutting measures in an attempt to maximize profits... I will wait until these features are incorporated into a more mature commercial product.

[@tedder42]

Probably yelling into the wind, but: the Pi undervoltage/throttling problem has continued to get worse. It's really sensitive to "cell phone brick plus USB cable" setups. You saw that a little bit. A little bit of resistance turns 5v into 4.95v (for instance) and that's enough for the Pi to freak out. One good way to power it is with an "integrated" cable+power supply like the semiofficial Pi supplies use. They compensate for voltage drop all the way to the end of the cable. The "value engineering" on the Pi has meant they won't address it, unfortunately. Is the undervoltage a problem? YES! Gina (of Octoprint) can show with the phone-home stats that 3d print cancellations are fairly strongly correlated with throttling, since the Pi basically drops its speed in half. Serial interfaces (and physical devices relying on them) tend to dislike this. Cheap buck converters allow you to power your Pi off the 12v or 24v supply of your printer or an external 12v supply. I've built about 10 iterations of a high-quality board that does it (and other cool printer monitoring things), but it's a lot of trouble so I've just used the prototypes on my personal stuff and on a satnogs Pi in my off-the-grid shed. And yeah, I think you're right, the pi1 didn't have "vcgencmd get_throttled" support. I think.

[@GHT007]

Does surprise me why people go with a regular 3d printer controller with a Pi running Octoprint connected to it via serial to give you a web interface when you already get that with the Duet 2 Wifi controller? The Duet clones out there are far more affordable and the functionality of these boards is outstanding. I actually swapped out using Mach3/USB Smoothstepper/Gecko stepper controller with a Duet which provides 2.4A to each motor on my 6040 CNC router and can provide all the outputs I need to control the spindle. Much nicer using its excellent web interface over using Mach3. Wish the Duet existed when I initially purchased the router.

[@Crusader7077]

I'm curious if anyone has experienced issues due to the higher temperatures from the CPU when using the RPi4 in an enclosed case that doesn't have room for a fan (there are a number of such available RPi4 cases that aren't designed to allow a fan to be installed), even though heat sinks are being used. Here's why it's a concern to me. I want to use the RPi4 with an upcoming RPi4-compatible SmartiPi Touch, a kiosk-style case that utilizes a touchscreen and encloses the RPi4. And I want to use this setup with both LibreElec and Raspbian installed on the connected SD Card. In light of the CPU load and temperature concerns, I don't see this being an issue with LibreElec, but with certain running tasks within Raspbian (particularly Chrome which can eat up CPU usage based on certain websites visited that utilize more resources such as for streaming audio), it does concern me if the higher temperatures might cause problems within that enclosed environment without the use of a fan, and I doubt that the RPi4 version of the SmartPi Touch will allow for a fan to be installed (it didn't allow for it for the RPi3 version of this case, but it also didn't need the fan either).

[@ericwood3709]

I got the 4 GB model. I don't think overclocking is an issue with the kit I got, which included heat sinks and a small case with a cooling fan. However, it remains slow with Raspbian for desktop use. I suspect that software is to blame, though, given the power of the hardware. The video in particular suffers more than it should.

[@GGShinobi77]

why do you treat the equipment so badly at 11:23? It might have broken. Just because it didn't work for the Pi 4 doesn't make it trash already, right? We have got more than enough electronic trash piles already. My only other complaint about the video is that it doesn't mention the heat problems in combination with a case. If you put the 4 into a case you probably get a lot more throttling problems. All in all a good video tho.

[@chaos.corner]

I had problems with printing complicated prints with Octopi on a 3 where it would pause and blob occasionally . I think it was the printer (JGAurora A1) but I want to try a 4 and see if that helps.

[@digibluh]

there's only reports of issues if you're trying to run a pi Zero, a 3 wouldn't have any at all. i think you want the 4 just to have a 4. you know it won't fix it :)

[@chaos.corner]

@@digibluh I know there's some reports of issues if you're doing video but I disconnected that. And of course I just want a 4.

[@Andreas-gh6is]

I had a funny issue with a raspberry pi 3B+, running octoprint. In most situations it would just put a few angry undervoltage messages into dmesg, but when printing it would reboot after a short while. I don't even know why, the mks gen L board should not take power from the pi, though it does (the logic side runs with the 5V from USB, without the 12V). Anyway, I solved it two ways, one with a special power supply giving 5,2V and underclocking also helped with any other power supply...

[@pablofederico1978]

I would be nice if you tried to check the temperature while it render the time lapse video, on my Pi 3 I had to add a copper heatsink and even that was not enough, I had to add also a fan.

[@jwcolby54]

I am using it as a python / pi dev system, dual monitors, 128gb ssd. It rocks.

[@kjetilerakersamuelsen2023]

I think you're confusing boost/base and throttling speeds - its two opposite things - and certainly not the same in reverse. Most modern CPUs use a lower base speed under low to normal workloads and go to boost speed when the workload demands it. Throttling on the other hand is going to a lower speed to prevent the CPU from overheating (and thus slowing down your workloads). I would have liked to see some tests of something a bit more challenging than OctoPrint, such as video playback and games.

[@JasperJanssen]

Then go to a different channel. Octoprint is by far he heaviest thing that we care about in the 3D printing community.

[@kjetilerakersamuelsen2023]

@@JasperJanssen I think you're missing the point - what about OctoPrint related tasks like webcam, time-lapses, slicing and other 3D related workloads?

[@MadeWithLayers]

For "background" tasks like webcam, timelapse etc, all RasPis from the 2 forward have enough power to handle it while printing. Newer ones will be faster when slicing, you can use the gcode analysis test as a rough idea of how much faster they'll be. On "throttling vs. boost" - it's just different names for the same thing ;-) If the processor is cool, more clock and voltage is applied, once it's hot clocks will be reduced to keep it from overheating.

[@kjetilerakersamuelsen2023]

I don't doubt it can handle it and better than the 3+; I would like to know if you'll need some sort of cooling and at what point. Also, what happens if you put it in a case? What about Wi-Fi (I seem to remember that it can cause a lot of CPU activity on some other models). I am asking because your conclusion is so vastly different from everyone else I've seen. I don't think we'll agree on boost/throttling; yes, the same thing happens, but its applied under different conditions (boosting is dependent on load, thermal throttling is dependent on temperature). Regardless, it's not important if the CPU manages to stay cool enough. For the record, I don't think heatsinks or fans is a big deal - and the other features of the board more than makes up for it.

[@JasperJanssen]

Kjetil Eraker Samuelsen both boost and throttle are dependent on both load and temperature. We’re not living in 2005 any more, it’s not as simple as only thermal throttle vs turbo boost. Turbo boost is applied when it can a) be useful b) the thermals allow it, and idle-clockdown, which is basically the same effect as the thermal throttle, is applied when the performance is not needed or b) the thermals require it. Basically the only thing that is still a given is that if you have as much as cooling as the cpu is designed for - for Intel, that’s removing the TDP watts of power while keeping the die at below the max Tj - it can sustain the nominal clock speed indefinitely, and will sustain a higher turbo clock for shorter periods. If your cooling is better or worse than nominal, your performance will likewise be better or worse than nominal. The 4 is, afaict, an architecture that’s modern enough in the cores and thermal management (grabbed from modern phone CPUs) that the above applies to it, but I’m open to persuasion on that.

[@marcoreviews]

Have you tried it with retro Pie? I think people are upset if it overheats during gaming! But I will try it and let you know.