Is Throne and Liberty Dead? What Went Wrong

[@BruceWayne-kw6hd]

The main problem with this game is there isn't enough loot to feel like a mmo and then end game is only pvp

[@abdelrahmanrad]

the expansion in Korea introduced so much loot that you can't even stick to 1 build anymore and it's getting overwhelming there lol

[@iAmCLPN]

Most MMO's have too much loot I like being able to just gear up & go pvp rather than having to grind constantly to stay viable in pvp

[@Lesminster]

There's plenty loot, actually more than I am used to. In L2 if you dropped some A grade weapon it was once in a month if at all and it was a fkin holiday :D S grade would be like winning a lottery or surviving airplane crash :P Here I am dropping something violet pretty much every day from standard mobs in open world dungeons. End game is totally not just pvp. If you consider a late game everything what happens after you reach max lvl then the game pretty much starts at this point :) All the dungeons, contracts, abyssal dungeons, events, sieges, bosses... There is a lot of it. Sure, at some point the next reasonable step is to get involved in pvp, but I can't see how that would be different in any other mmorpg. PvP is that aspect which gets boring the slowest since real players are not as predictable as mobs.

[@cristiancostin4821]

Pvp is archer flashwave zergs and in arena is only greatsword watever,for a focused pvp game is a stinking trash

[@Niomaa]

Ncsoft are no the developers of guild wars 2 , they are the publisher, arenanet is the developer of guild wars 2, thats a big diference

[@abdelrahmanrad]

not anymore in fact both devs working together behind the scenes and u can see that in recent expansions for both games and the weapon ''Spear''. Also NCsoft is making Guild Wars 3 now

[@svens.2876]

@@abdelrahmanrad You know they had spears in Guild Wars 1 AND in Lineage right? :D

[@Zemoch93]

I just want to correct a few things from the video first. 1. They fixed you not getting healed when going into an Arena match - you get full healed now. 2. If you level up the wrong skill you have skill transfer books which they give you for free like 25 of them, to swap the levels of a skill to another one. 3. Leveling 1-50 does not take 35hrs. You can easily do it in 10hrs and even less while doing all side quests. You also did not mention you can get premium currency with doing in-game stuff and selling on the AH, meaning you can buy skins and Battlepass without paying real money. I think if you don't care for the PVP that much it's a solid 8.5/10 game. If you care about PVP and you aren't a whale it's a 5/10.

[@TheAlphaOmegaX3]

Exactly how I feel.

[@hokayson6518]

This is a perfect comment, totally agree on all points!

[@r3load403]

+ people still dont understand that this game, at least in t1, is definately not p2w. Its p2befirst at most, since all you can do with lucent is buying items that f2p players can obtain 2-3 weeks after for basically free...all the whales did was buying items for 3k+ lucent that 3 weeks after cost 300 lucent...its just so stupid to call this game a p2w. People always come up with examples such as new world, since it "doesnt have p2w"...oh wait, RMT is a big thing there and most pvp players just buy their gold from third party websites without ever getting punished. And even the Archboss weapons: ok they are harder and more expensive to obtain, and many f2p players might never get a chance to play them, but they are mostly not that far superior to other normal t1 weapons. Yea, they are an upgrade most of the time, but not so much to actually quit a game solely for that reason

[@hokayson6518]

@@r3load403 there definitely needs to be a distinction between what you called p2befirst & p2w. I personally think p2bf is a good compromise since f2p peeps can get exactly the same gear with some grinding. p2w for me means you can buy stuff that you can't get from playing for free, or that the grind is ludicrously long such that you basically can't get it ever. I've not spent any money on T&L as I'm just a casual player, but I actually like the direct option is there should I want to progress faster by spending some money. It means I can play with everyone else if I want to, rather than being completely trapped miles behind as a casual player. In fact, I'd probably have given up by now if there wasn't that option dangling in front of me keeping me telling myself that I _could_ catch up any time if I wanted to, rather than feeling like I can never catch up.

[@dgvtcg5hbwu383]

why is leveling up so fast, I remember good mmorpg back in the day, (silkroad) before bots ruined it, leveling used to take years! if leveling is this fast its stupid it ruins the game.

[@LarenzoWilliams-p6k]

As a “casual” that has a full time job and 3 kids that I am active with this is a very out of toon and a major L take on 90% of what he said please watch another video if you are thinking about playing this game

[@Lesminster]

Agree. I have so much fun in T&L still after 3 months of playing. Game doesn't feel abandoned or empty. There's plenty people on world bosses or to fight against during night time or sieges or whatever else. Dude is complaining about repetitiveness of the game as if there was a game which offers something new every day like a real life or smthn :D

[@Caljostro]

I could play more than casually. Except for that one day every week (thus fortnight) which is my real life social day, but which is also when the main event takes place, the unique selling point, the raison d'être of the whole game. You can't face palm such a stupid design decision appropriately enough in a life time. Apart from my bad experience while leveling, 1 day out of 14 makes it pointless for me to play at all even if I wanted.

[@eternalvigilance5697]

Cope.

[@kingboy280]

No one cares that you have a job and kids, stop including that in your opinion of games. It’s totally irrelevant to everyone else.

[@anannoyedpanda]

@@kingboy280 It actually does have an impact because people who are in similar situations choose games based on how they can fit into family life. If you don’t have those things that’s fine, but stop seething about others mentioning it when it does have an impact on whether to invest in the game or not.

[@halonaruto1999]

The game is a true grind it has its flaws, but it's extremely early, and the developers actually listen to the community it will get much, much better over time

[@Suknmy]

Love this, because it will get better

[@kingosama9763]

I agree but they may miss the window and once ppl stop playing the shareholders will pull out!

[@abdelrahmanrad]

this is the least grindy mmo we had in 10 years i think u haven't been playing mmos lol

[@halonaruto1999]

@@abdelrahmanrad i have just cause you don't think it's a grind doesn't mean that's everyone else's opinion and that's okay

[@catspiracytheorist2138]

ya the hopium is justified especially since they re-vamped their combat system at launch when everyone was exposing how the garbage the original combat system was.

[@LetsFLy187]

Performance wise it’s pretty bad on ps5 & the loot drop rate is a crime. But the game is not bad but not worth to spend money on.

[@TuffLuckBro]

Good thing it’s free and you can play completely f2p 🥸

[@Lesminster]

What loot drop rate is satisfying to you if you are not satisfied with being able to easily get a handful of violet items every day?

[@Syceroe]

I don't call 58,904 24-hour peak as dead and 36th highest population on steam. Is it less than launch, of course every MMO decreases more than half it's population after launch. Bad take man.

[@raptorloco]

feels empty though.

[@tomorpedreiro3032]

its literally going down 50k in peak every month

[@GhostOfBuscemi]

Huffing pure columbian copium. Its dead.

[@Aszourus]

ITS DEAD

[@Omfg_Its_Santos]

Yeah it's definitely dead

[@blkreaver77]

The game has its issues but this felt more like a “hit piece” than a game review 😂

[@Tenken77]

"You can earn and progress just by simply playing the game" -Deltia's Gaming 2024 KZbinrs like you are how these devs successfully market predatory games. You sold your soul.

[@emoneydatruth1]

Idk I think this is the best mmo on console right now. It has room for improvement but we can not overlook how well this game plays. Recovery would be easy for such a well made mmo.

[@redrepublic5557]

Game doesn’t even play well on console

[@billy_cross]

I mean, comparatively speaking it has both PE and PVP content that is active. That’s the most important part. If you wanna go grind out dungeons you can do so I mean certainly there are limits or you can only get rewards from three dungeons a day, but there are many Group content type activities that don’t require PVP, but then again those same activities there are examples of those same activities for people that want PVP on top of numerous other avenues for PVP and PVE unlike the builder scroll at all or you know what you really gotta be a long time veteran have any chance in that PVP This game has something for everyone and it’s fresh and new people who haven’t spent time MMO‘s are kind of a special breed. It takes a long time playing an MMO learning all the systems and learning in and out learning how to spend money how not to spend moneyfor instance is a big one in an MMO like this or in MMO really and until you do, don’t fucking talk about it. Don’t make KZbin videos giving out horrendous amounts of inaccurate information. You’re just harming yourself, your reputation and the gaming industry.

[@billy_cross]

I mean, comparatively speaking it has both PE and PVP content that is active. That’s the most important part. If you wanna go grind out dungeons you can do so I mean certainly there are limits or you can only get rewards from three dungeons a day, but there are many Group content type activities that don’t require PVP, but then again those same activities there are examples of those same activities for people that want PVP on top of numerous other avenues for PVP and PVE unlike the builder scroll at all or you know what you really gotta be a long time veteran have any chance in that PVP This game has something for everyone and it’s fresh and new people who haven’t spent time MMO‘s are kind of a special breed. It takes a long time playing an MMO learning all the systems and learning in and out learning how to spend money how not to spend moneyfor instance is a big one in an MMO like this or in MMO really and until you do, don’t fucking talk about it. Don’t make KZbin videos giving out horrendous amounts of inaccurate information. You’re just harming yourself, your reputation and the gaming industry.

[@LarenzoWilliams-p6k]

@@emoneydatruth1 I play on Xbox(new one) and I love it and it runs good for me! My fav MMO for sure

[@emoneydatruth1]

@redrepublic5557 what ? How?

[@stefrez9884]

It's hard for players who have spent over 200 € on it to accept that the game is over

[@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x]

@@stefrez9884 well they shouldnt spend so much. Just play it f2p as me. I farm around 700-1000 lucent a week. 500 lucent = €10 do the math. If u have an alt u can double that as the lucent between 2 characters is shared. Hope this helps some people.

[@MattS-io1kk]

I enjoyed my 30ish hours before the time gating and guild focused endgame killed my enjoyment. It's a fun game for sure but performance issues and end game design turned me away from it. Maybe I will check it out again if there are improvements in the future.

[@framinthor]

By far the biggest issue I had with T&L is that I couldn't really grind for my gear, I pretty much just had to buy it or its upgrades off the AH. I don't like buying/trading for gear, IMO it takes away from the game, I end up playing the AH instead of playing the game and that is not something I want to do. Other stuff were lack of build diversity, impossibility of trying out builds without essentially making a brand new character while being limited to 2 characters per region was a massive turn off. I got my 100ish hours out of it, which is fine for a free game, but it's def not a game I'd be returning to anytime soon unless they do a massive overhaul to how gearing works, which ofc they won't because Lucent is how they make their money. And Lucent prices are so outrageously high, it's like $10+ worth of lucent for a minor upgrade, probably way more if it's a weapon

[@globalzero]

Seriously? You just burn abyss token, contracts and the dungeons and you get gear for free. I made more than 20k lucent for free and just bought some of my gear

[@framinthor]

@@globalzero what part of "had to buy upgrades off the AH" and "I don't like buying/trading for gear" was not clear lol

[@globalzero]

@@framinthor trading is an essential part of mmorpg. If you "buy" items with currency earned in the game is also acceptable. I was able to grind my bow, my armor and my talus staff gave to me from my guild. Most of the traits also unlocked with stones - dropped items and I bought few from AH just because I did not want to wait longer. What exactly HAD TO buy from AH?

[@framinthor]

@@globalzero i get it, but when its practically forced on you, it's not my thing. I think in all my years of playing mmoRPGs I bought like 2 items, EVER. I don't like buying loot in a game revolving around finding loot

[@kingboy280]

@@globalzerono it isn’t. Not compared to rng looting.

[@stash48]

Whole video is paid propaganda lol Especially after you made a eso puff piece

[@Klaidas21]

He gets paid promotions for ESO

[@australienski6687]

Guild Wars 2 has hybrid tab target/action combat and it works very well.

[@blow3679]

This one too... Wrong opinion again.

[@joshuaturner126]

Best Loot based on damage.. don't get me started on guilds.. smh

[@Gazikos]

As first this is Korea MMO launched to world, dont expect ESO or WOW style on korea MMO. Second if you have problems with targeting just open options and use auto snap XD. For the last grind is always wins on MMO, this is the core.

[@Gazikos]

and for use money to buy items, THIS IS STILL KOREA MMO but we are in better situation. We have a minimal part of what is on korea servers

[@King_of_Sofa]

The power progression system feels like a hamster wheel

[@allthatishere]

Isn't that all MMOs, tho?

[@australienski6687]

​@@allthatishereNot Guild Wars 2

[@allthatishere]

@@australienski6687 Well, yeah. Guild Wars 1 and 2 are some of the few exceptions, seeing as they focus on horizontal progression.

[@australienski6687]

@@allthatishere Also to a lesser extent, ESO. Once you get end game gear in ESO it will always be viable as the gear score is never increased. But unlike GW2 they do increase vertical progression slightly over time.

[@iAmCLPN]

​@australienski6687 every update eso has a new broken set that might not be "musy have" but you will be at a disadvantage fighting people who did get it until a few patches when it gets nerfed

[@Lothkru]

Main issues are imo: - Combat animations still suck, there's still way too much desync as well - It went from daily tasks to daily chores, there's too much stuff to do now after 2 start dungeons and contracts feel way too repetitive and boring - It's just another gear treadmill MMO, once you reach a certain GS there's no much to do but wait till the next GS increase Btw a quick counterpoint to your "hybrid doesn't work". Gw2 has one of the bests, if not the best, combat system in any MMO imo, and that's pretty much an action/tab target hybrid. The problem with TL is the targeting sucks, the animation transitions suck and there's way too much desync.

[@demianpelos]

Gw2 movement and combat is amazing best game. I had wish they have done something that feels like that. Gw2 movement and combat feel in TL would be amazing!!!

[@issen186]

PVP is bad in this game ,ppl ony use shadow strike .I was cc 4 times in a row with this skill ,only fix for this is lower the range of skill .

[@AKGeorgiev]

I hate the stat system… 1 stat to rule them all!

[@TheAlphaOmegaX3]

Screw the haters. I'm a ESO player of 9 years and love T&L. I enjoy the hybrid combat and the story was good enough to stay engaged. The flexibility of making a build is also done well. Had no issues with the movement while in combat at all. Zero. The world is gorgeous and fun to explore. Love the vertically of the world and flying/floating system. The upgrading system is extremely easy to learn and have yet run into a grind that is anywhere close to countless other grinds in games these days. This is my opinion from a mostly casual and non-pvp player thats paid zero money into the game. To say T&L pay to win? It's as pay to win as Warframe. You can buy all the power with zero wait. So if your a pvp player, sure, stay away maybe. If you are a pve player, I say give a play. Is it perfect? Heck no. Yet it's far and beyond better than the majority of the other mmo offerings that have died already or been on life support for years. Deltia, my brother, I'm not sure where you are going with new world numbers. It's died off wayyyyyyyy harder. Once you beat the game, there really isn't much left to do. It's end game has been a complaint since launch. It's player base right now is a fraction of its player base. 14k currently on steam as I'm typing. I wouldn't use it as an example of a healthy or well done experience game is all.

[@hokayson6518]

Samesies, I enjoyed ESO for a few years (PvE only) & I'm enjoying T&L PvE as well. I'd actually say the p2w balance is really good for a PvE player, since you can earn Lucent by playing or by buying, & it's bloody expensive to buy compared to the time it takes to earn it so that feels like a nice balance to me. I'm not sure how long I'll stick with it, but I'm still having fun with it.

[@hfdgsjhdagfh]

Man people saying this p2w is literally just trying find something complaining about yes it have a pay element but man this game is no where as near predatory as other p2w game and im genuine enjoy this game besides it issues. Ppl only hate this game because everyone else does, ppl dont play game for themselves anymore, if they see video of people hating this game they will fall into that crowd with them, with no valid reason.

[@jesseparra1988]

comming from Oficial Lineage 2 servers I can say that this is not pay to win.

[@przemczan12361]

@@jesseparra1988 Official L2 nowadays is a trash. But saying that TnL isn't p2w is like pretending that the problem doesn't exist. You can literally buy everything for the real money. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game by myself, but it is what it is.

[@tejasshastha5457]

Just because TnL is “less” p2w than some other game doesn’t mean TnL “isn’t p2w at all”. Less shitty than something else is still shitty.

[@jesseparra1988]

@@tejasshastha5457 I totally agree... At least game is new and let's hope it does not come to that.

[@r3load403]

@@przemczan12361 you cant buy almost nothing with lucent. Runes, Growthstones, Skillbooks, Trait Unlockstones (convertionstones, extractionstones) etc. are all not obtainable with lucent and are crucial for your build to work out...but since people then have no reason to complain, they start to complain about the game being to grindy. So what do people want? An MMORPG, that has no real money transactions, but also does only take you 1 month to have BiS Gear and therefor quit because there's a lack of content? do people use their brain?

[@jameshollins5659]

This game is way less P2W than something like ESO .. you can literally make money for battlepass by selling items in game

[@TheAlphaOmegaX3]

Reminds me of warframe which is also free to play. ALOT of players sell items to get premium currency and use that to buy whatever they want. Everyone loves to gush about WF but it probably gets a pass due to no one caring about its pvp at all.

[@bellamorta489]

enlighten me how ESO is P2W?

[@jameshollins5659]

@@bellamorta489 the best mythics are always tied to expansions one must purchase, best sets are tied to zones in the new chapters you have to buy. It's more pay to win than T&L where you can buy everything in game via playing. ESO is certainly not as P2W as some MMOs but it's certainly much more P2W than T&L

[@bellamorta489]

@@jameshollins5659 except that's just an excuse, you can find tons of videos and parses of ppl doing 100k+ dps with base game sets and craftable/tradable sets, yes mythics are good and tied to dlcs but you can still easily do well without them. Crown store itself has nothing but cosmetics and skins. Meanwhile in TnL you can quite literally start a new char today and already have the best gear and a 3500 gear score by paying real money, if that's not P2W idk what is.

[@bellamorta489]

​@@jameshollins5659 my previous comment doesn't appear so i guess it didn't go through you don't need the new sets/mythics to do well though, i can show you loads of parses/videos of people doing 100k+ dps with base game sets or craftable/tradable sets that don't require any dlcs to get. crown store itself is devoid of P2W and has only cosmetics and skins. meanwhile in TnL you can quite literally start a new char today and within a day have the best gear in the game and be 3.5k gear score or so just by paying real money (something that would take you a while to do as a casual non-paying player), if that's not P2W idk what is.

[@shark5981]

They need to remove tornado from the bow, and some other cc's. Aoe damage skills on massive pvp is just awful. Its all about the flash waves

[@awkward14]

I'm still playing the shit outa this

[@lemstryZ]

Meanwhile the game hit an all new low of 30k concurrent players

[@drivebyjoe]

Biggest issue for me is the amount of block scripts being used in pvp..

[@pigeonflip3649]

For me it’s the worst class balancing to ever grace the mmo genre

[@oddy5868]

@@pigeonflip3649ncsoft are using people as beta testers lmao

[@Bankai90]

just you being bad, they massbanned the 2 most popular used scripts 3-4 weeks ago, ofc they are still going since this will forever remain a cat and mouse game. But thinking that everybody throws around 1k for new accs just to block a bit in arena or saurodoma is delulu as hell lol

[@drivebyjoe]

@Bankai90 delusional is thinking these dudes won't do anything to win. Now kick rocks

[@blow3679]

Another guy who don't know the mechanics of the game. Guy can only dodge 3 times, and it's in 3 to 6 sec depends on how you manage your stamina... You will still be killed in so many way after that... The script can save your life bit but you will still die if don't use skills or your teammate you don't let you down with a stun on the aggressor... Another wrong opinion.

[@yahusrevus]

It got me, man. Sweatlord no-life PvP guild member here. What are we now, 3.5 months in to TL? I can confirm absolutely everything you said. If not for the fact that my guild/alliance is still winning on our server against the transfers, full burnout would already have taken me out.

[@father-sonflightsimulator3838]

I’ve been playing for about a month; My biggest issue with the game is that it does a horrible job explaining boss mechanics. When you have to do “research” to figure out how to beat bosses, it automatically creates a system of aholes bashing newer players, who then just leave the game as no one comes to a game to be harassed. PvP is impossible as a newer player who can’t hope to catch up to players who had early access. This creates a caste system if players, dividing the player base, and kills the game. Every progression in the game overly convoluted, a turn off for newer players. Time gated content is lame too. No one has this kind of time to invest anymore in video games. Overall good take on a lot if the issues.

[@drakus40k]

If you want PVP, a good guild will help its newbie players gear up for it.

[@FantomDeck]

​@@drakus40k based

[@chibifox7543]

Ppl being toxic is not a huge surprise. It's there everywhere, but in different amounts. For example LoL is a trash game because of the high level toxicity of the community, otherwise it's one of the best games ever created. Ppl still playing it.

[@Lesminster]

I have completely different experience. Started to play in October. Pretty quickly joined guild. Got answered every single question. People were very helpful and explained how and what. Also did my own research, obviously. It feels weird to me to expect to be carried by hand in a game. I want to discover stuff, learn. Also, dungeons are constructed in a way so you learn boss mechanics by running through dungeon. Just don't run ahead bot/npc-style, but think :D Clearly you will encounter toxic players, it is inevitable. There's a fair number of guys who wanna do their chores asap, so they just storm through dungeons like no tomorrow and vote to kick you out if you stop for 2 seconds :P But that is not majority of them and definitely there is not more of those than in any other game of that kind. Why do you think pvp should be possible for a new player if you go against seasoned players? You are supposed to progress, improve your skills and your gear and then pvp becomes possible.

[@thomassmith8924]

I personally believe in the game's potential but I feel the developers need to take your feedback and even a few more suggestions so they can rework the game. They should rework the game. Keep the character creation, keep the weapon's determining your class, even keep the skills but rework everything else. I rather run faster, have a full 360 roll dodge capability, and mounts to ride instead of morphing. Give us i-frames. And after the rework have everything saved for the people that invested a significant amount of hour's into the game so we don't miss out on our progression.

[@Kaaya1112]

Hello! For me being GM of my own Guild level 30, with 40 active players and a combat level of 4300, I love the game but knowing that the focus of it is more PVP when doing large-scale combats there are too many people using scripts like: Autoparry, Autotarget, people throwing skills at you while transformed into an otter or a bird (which is not possible but the scripts allow it) NCS0FT has known about this for a long time, every time someone uploads a video or a post on reddit about this topic the company reports it and they take down the video or the post, all to hide this huge problem that the game has due to its terrible ANTICHEAT system. Being an honest player since the moment of launch, this demotivates me and my guild seeing how everyone uses scripts, brags about it and nothing happens to them... in my opinion this game is destined to fail if they don't take action on the matter, in the end only the SCRIPTERS and the PVE HARDCORE players will be left to make content.

[@globalzero]

Scripts and pure targeting is the main problem atm.

[@allthatishere]

NCsoft are NOT the developers for GW2; they're the publishers. NC Studio X made T&L.

[@xbon1]

Who ever hailed throne and liberty as alive? Day 1 the game was already mixed rating on Steam and that's part of why I never tried it.

[@romanstoleru7936]

I agree, I'm disappointed with this game too. I expected more from NCSoft, especially after Lineage 2, with its great skills, classes, and PvP that were far better than in Throne and Liberty. I don’t like how you always get stuck in textures when using hooks or small rocks can stock you for 5 seconds. The balance in PvP is broken, even after a couple of patches.

[@vaelicusthepaladin]

Combat is ok, it does a few things different, storytelling is amazing, they even narrate the story while running to next quest, story is good/cinematics/visuals zones. BUUUTTT you realize straight away that it has an purposely created EXTREME grind to frustrate you and just P2W. Toxic, unethical game design probably corporatism entering firing the lead dev and monetizing. NEW WORLDS road map for 2025 looks fire questing in New world is really fun now.

[@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x]

Real mmo vets love the grind. If something new comes in they dont frustrate me. They motivate. The p2p = pay to progress faster is for lazy people who want to be endgame but not put in the effort. Im making around 700 to a 1000 lucent each week with dropped items i dont need. I sell them and with the profit buy myself the battlepass and buy traits for my build. Easy does it. Grinding pays. And it makes you master on how to use your abilities 2 the fullest. Faster then if you wouldnt do that. And im talking about the real mmo skill not ingame character.

[@kingboy280]

Let’s save the word amazing for things that actually deserve it please.

[@pruitv4]

p2w and toxic community who call themselves pvp players while not even knowing what pvp even is.

[@Caljostro]

You are missing a whole topic: the anti social behaviour that is encouraged. I was pk-ed during the grind at level 32 at the freaking quest hub. And that was the game for me. I do not want to play a game where the endgame consists of keeping others from reaching the endgame. Isn't Amazon smarter than releasing a seal clubber's wet dream? And from what I have heared, that is only the beginning. Guilds can take away your loot, they lure you in with the promise of lucent, only to kick you when you are eligible to receive and ask to be paid. Higher ranking guild members stealing items. So what is this? EVE Online, just not in space? And what about all the freaking bugs? The game is out for 1 year in Korea now. How the heck could the whale still not spawn correctly for like a week? 3 sieges so far, and all have been an exploit festival from what I watched. Glitching through floors, jumping golems, access to areas you shouldn't have,.... Amazon knows, yet they choose not to punish. It is not RMT after all. And the whole clown fiesta that is guild pvp, e.g. giga alliances by using the feud mechanic.

[@mr30belowAK]

Mega alliances are the biggest issue. When 9 of the top 10 guilds are working together to keep 1 guild out of castle it really ruins the integrity of the game. 4 of the top 5 guilds on my server are basically all just 1 massive guild full of scripters. In their guild messages it has a link to download the pvp block script. Any and all integrity this game has is non-existent. It had so much promise but after 2 months it just became a unnecessary full time job with convoluted systems designed to gatekeep loot and the power gap just grows wider the more you gatekeep the best gear in the game. PvP is flooded with block scripts, auto aim hacks, health exploits, players completely immune to damage, and after all that you finally get to weapon imbalance. Its not worth the time invested

[@pigeonflip3649]

Don’t you love Zerg flash wave spam?

[@willmckoy8949]

Yep, you are spot on.

[@mr30belowAK]

@@pigeonflip3649 I play spellblade. I refuse to put a bow on my back lol

[@Sky-vo5du]

Shitty review with misleading information. Many issues stated in the video were already addressed and fixed. Amazon and NCSoft have been communicating and addressing player’s feedbacks very well. The dev also said they are working on improving the movements. This guy makes a review video with minimal knowledge of the game and the mmo genre lmao. The purposes are clearly to shit on the game, find sympathy and drive people out of the game with his narrow perspective of the game.

[@DonJayceGaming]

Yea this video is dumb like most of his videos no knowledge of the game probably played 2 weeks listen to ppl and made a video lol

[@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x]

I just made a similar comment to the guy. Like wtf he doesnt know how to cast aoe without a target? He didnt went into optuons and selected free target option. He doesnt know shit about the game. And hes bashing it. If someone who hasnt played yet sees this he will never give the game a honest chance. Cant heal people outside ur party? Duh u cant. Cannot select partymembers hard to click them? Edit ur hud and place party window near char on screen and just click in that list to select. This is so unfair bashing a game without even the basic knowledge of the game

[@australienski6687]

The game sucks

[@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x]

@@australienski6687 its simple.... dont play it if u dont like it. Its good people have different tastes. Otherwise we would have a boring world.

[@australienski6687]

@@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x I don't play it. The game has lost like 80% of the player base and I doubt the ones that stay will be enough to make the game financially viable.

[@mynusten]

Tired of P2W games. I prefer to pay to play games I want to play. At its core, TNL is pretty good...but the cash grab is a turn off in today's video game market.

[@abdelrahmanrad]

game is not even near p2w.

[@mynusten]

@@abdelrahmanrad if a game allows gamers to buy in-game currency with real money to buy weapons, it is the sterotype of P2W. TNL may not be as bad as others, but a non-P2W game means gamers have to grind everything, beat the big bosses and hope for the the RNG drop.

[@dayoftherope1690]

Literally 4100 gear score and spent 10$ for the first battle pass tf you on I play 4-5hrs a day

[@Btechdom]

Played through the MSQ and hit level cap, never once was compelled to spent a cent. Where's the p2w? Btw your definition of P2W means literally every MMO is P2w as there's always a cash shop where you can buy in game currency to buy gear in game. Name me one MMO that doesn't let you do that, I'll wait.

[@mynusten]

@@Btechdom Sure -- here's two: 1) New World and 2) Path of Exile 2. Gamers can buy all sort of cosmetics, pets and other visual trinkets, but gamers are not allowed to buy any weapons.

[@GodHexe]

problem for me that was the reason to leave was the healing changes. I wish mmos like this would add more support classes. Tired of the hundreds of pvp options

[@blvcknoirent]

This maybe bc I’m used to playing dead games but, I’m totally clueless in mass PvP, this is the only game where I’m fighting 60 ppl at a time, I’m used to 5v5 or 10v10 at most but holy too much ppl on screen I can barely concentrate and when I do get someone, I die before I can finish my kill bc of long range attackers

[@mbnqpl]

This is a great game, only the people are so toxic and everything is on a rush. What I also dislike is forcing you to play in party almost with every major activity. I don't like being forced to that, as mmo player since 2008 i was always mad when was feeling forced to something.

[@Krycius]

I think its a decent game but like many others, you can only put up with world disconnects so many times before you have no choice but to quit.

[@captainoldspices3119]

Some of these reasons are why I stopped playing T&L but I understand if people are still having fun with it or want to give it a try. You just have to ask yourself what you're looking for and appreciate the enjoyable moments with the game. That said, good summary of the issues, Deltia. Have watched you for years and you have very helpful content. Thanks!

[@issamelarmi]

After giving a fair shot (being in a hardcore pvp guild from launch till december, running all content types including siege / tax) here's my current view of the game: - Terrible combat (is this really the best we can do in 2024 ?) - God awful targeting (you'll pop a vein trying to quickly select a target with the mouse, especially during group pvp, you end up having to rely on astral vision + shortcuts, which is simply fucking stupid) - Lack of raid management tools / shotcalling tools (why can't we have raid groups ? why can't we have guild pings like in BDO? why do these devs always try to reinvent the fucking wheel, when the best tools already exists ? Do we really need to "follow star" ?) - Horrendous movement (get stuck on pebbles, bug around ledges, desync galor etc.) - Half baked game systems - Lack of meaningful pvp content (a part from siege and tax, boonstone/riftstone is mid at best and is absolutely stupid compared to something like BDO's node wars) - Lack of satisfying end game progression (once you hit gear cap for the current patch, you got nothing to work towards progress) - No PvP based progression - Gated content (the limited enjoyable content is time gated) - Non satisfying grind All in all, T&L provided a few hours of enjoyment, but it still feels like a half baked game, that had a decent premise, but totally failed the execution (classic NC soft if you ask me) Hopefully the devs will do something and evolve the game towards a positive state, meanwhile, i will be playing something else

[@Btechdom]

GW2 does an excellent job in hybrid action/tab targeting, and personally has the best overall combat in any mmo right now that lets you dodge, block, sprint, stun break, CC, etc (BDO has excellent combat but is strictly action and pvp is usually lop sided and always favors the player with the first grapple and with the highest gearscore/crystals/buffs)

[@ngc4486diane]

gw2 large scale pvp in wvw where any1 can jump in and take part is miles and beyond anything T&L can offer.

[@smokefather1402]

The balance teams single handedly bricked GW2, they turned a fun game with a lot of counterplay and good builds into a hot mess of buffs. Never recovered from Solar.

[@Btechdom]

@@smokefather1402 I still spvp a few times a day and wvw and haven't noticed it unbalanced other than xpack releases like when Harbinger was so broken it could 1v4 effortlessly lol

[@globalzero]

People will cry no matter what. I have never seen a game fixing issues so fast and effective. This is the mildest P2W you can get unless you are willing to pay for a 15 dollars montly subscription. I paid only 10 dollars at start for battlepass and after that I made thousand of lucents from just playing the game. Man I remember Lineage 2 and how hard was leveling and gear . This is like walk in the park and I have a family and a job!

[@braydon62509]

Items barely drop, and everyone plays the same shit.

[@pxgh0st]

Not gonna lie, was hyped af about that Game but it feels exactly Like Bless unleashed. And WE all know about the end of Bless Unleashed on consoles. TaL gives No original Content actually. Im in a guild and Play it caused by the members Not the Game itself. It feels dead and repetitive. PvE wise its all about running your 6 Dungeons a day (3 T1 and 3 T2) with 90% blue shitty Loot outcomings. PvP ist Just stund and win or getting jumped, No Skill included at all. Im now at GS 3,8k without spending a single coin for Gear. But it feels Like There's Grind to nowhere, with No Goal. Cause you don't have to do anything with Sense.

[@kamelkadri2843]

Combat n gameplay, i dont want to turn to an animal just to sprint, combat is boring this is not 2004 its 2024

[@mojophonic]

The ridiculous number of currencies and stupid skill system was what made me leave. Microtransactions up the arse too... Just not something I am going to devote my precious free time on. Deltia, you are having bad luck with the Wayfinders and T&L not succeeding. Hopefully you can find a successful game to do content for. You do good stuff.

[@ReallyRonnie876]

The grind has actually started to get to me Runes have my head spinning omfg.... If they allowed us to use multiple coins at once that would help a lot and get to more PVP rolling

[@devinpatterson860]

The community and matchmaking for dungeons also brought this game down. Sad to say but hey I did just start playing new world and I am loving it!!!

[@SquishMonster]

Great video. As a 5 year ESO veteran I found this game to be really fun and refreshing when it first came out. It got stale pretty quick though after playing for a few weeks. The time gated content is ridiculous and I could never really get on board with the weird combat systems. I ended up switching over to New World when it was released on xbox and I haven't looked back. It was just a better fit for me I guess.

[@atlasblast2082]

The Monetization no longer works for western audiences. Most of my friends hate (HATE) grinding for materials to upgrade gear instead of grinding for gear with specific rolls. and it's the exact opposite for a few of my friends that love that model, but the gap is growing even for the eastern audience. T&L is doing too much and trying to appease too many audiences along with their investors. Can't please everyone so it will fail

[@dayoftherope1690]

Gear is fucking easy if you play even remotely casual

[@unearthlynarratives_]

@@dayoftherope1690 except you don't play "casually", you're forgetting most adults who have a job and responsibilities, don't have 5 hours to drop on a game every single day like you do.

[@atlasblast2082]

It has a lot to do, with who they ask about their games in development. Unfortunately streamers have become the go to for what gamers "want." Disregarding that streamers only care about what people watch not the actual structure of games. It's a terrible way to make a game. No one wants a second or third job, we play video games to escape the world and enter another one. I want to find Excalibur, I don't want to build it.

[@MrLiviulbr]

The game is realy nice but it have 2 big issues : 1 is the targeting big issue in pvp and second is the stats on all clases it feels like they don t work properly at all. The builds must to be inprove a lot and i hope they will do it soon .

[@jjp537]

I really enjoy the game. There are some bugs and things that can be improved on but it is extremely early. The game is still in it's infancy and the devs ask for and actually welcome feedback. I think that T & L will be fine in the long run and make it through the growing pains.

[@MonitoLow]

The fact that to get any enjoyment in endgame .. true endgame is that you must become hardcore and be in the top 10 guilds basically log in at required time and do pvp events lol or good luck you will get booted if you don’t play for a week 😂

[@charlottesplayground1096]

doing story and getting lvl 50 is only 5-10h it can even be done in 3h actualy but that more kr harcore stuff xD. so that arguement is bs. you can just run the side quests etc the recommends to gain the lvl for next main quest. i had no issues with this on my alt. game is very f2p friendly too. you can just grind your gear for free.. unlijke some other games. you can either swipe to save time and get bored or actualy play the game.

[@RiggidyBon]

It started getting to repetitive, I was no longer having fun on T&L. It started to feel like work instead of play. The grind… it was a nice fantasy get away in the beginning but I got burnt out

[@BulletproofDawg]

This is a bad take, throne will survival because people are already predicting its downfall. U can legit sell stuff and make money urself lmao

[@pigeonflip3649]

Reading this gave me brain damage

[@MichaelCarmichael5]

Is Deltia's Gaming KZbin channel dead? How can it be revived?

[@Blakerzzzz4]

This is a strange take. I have the opposite opinion on almost everything he said.

[@lynnbo]

I put maybe 2 hours into it and it looked beautiful, I think the systems and MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER part of MMO just wasn't there for me. Guild Wars 2 still makes me feel like I'm in a real world with thousands of other people.

[@ka5-go]

I don't even play MMOs anymore, so no axe to grind here, but some points are a bit unfair. Player-driven MMO genre is specifically *made* for people with no IRL obligations. By being forced to prioritize the game and invest time into alliances and bosses, players feel fulfilled and successful. And if you have a friend, surely you can reschedule and hang out on another day, or play together. As you said yourself, the developer has to choose one approach, not mix and match. In this case either very flexible low pressure, or high pressure, or all players will be disappointed instead. As for pvp server domination and stuff, there's a lot of prior art in EVE and Albion and other games. If you don't highlight what exactly you'd want this game to do, sorry it comes across as just "I want to win solo vs 500 other players just because I want".

[@shanes1676]

Are the guilds bigger? And they have the ability to take your drops?

[@Losmegos]

spent 300 hours in the first 2 months and 300/400 euros, but it dindt met my expectations so i take my money and time elsewhere

[@Jannah_2k]

TnL doing well and improving all the time based on player feedback. It's not dead like ESO is. ESO is full maintenance mode and already a walking dead game.

[@demianpelos]

Is a baby game and they are polishing but there are other games who are out for 10 yrs and they haven't got to that polished level. They still have a lot to work on

[@EvilMonkeyPro]

Why do I have to pay $20 to join my friends server and why is nobody talking about this

[@m_sedziwoj]

13:55 look at Eve Online pvp and owning territory, this how it should be done.

[@wyettmunro470]

Throne doesn't have a identity it trys to do so many things from other mmos they haven't created anything literally just looking at the game it has eso mixed with gw2 with a little new world

[@infinitekarma2]

“Your character cannot move while jumping”. Can you do that in the real world? That’s one of the things I hated in WOW. And don’t reply with brain dead stuff like “but can you turn into a wolf in real life?”…

[@drakus40k]

....what's with the obsession with getting to the end game PVP/PVE content? Honestly, that wasn't the fun part for me at all. I enjoyed the campaign, and I enjoy the group dungeon trawling, and I enjoy the various timed events. Mind you, I haven't played an actual MMORPG since City of Heroes, and I guess Diablo III, if that counts. I spent $10, one time, on a battle pass. After hitting level 50, you can make plenty of lucent for each new battle pass, a few cosmetics, and various other items, just by selling the epic level drops you find as you play. This guy is also completely ignoring the instanced dungeons and boss fights (Dimensional Dungeons) that have almost all the good gear. Anyway, I disagree with a lot of what he's said. But then, I don't enjoy all his favorite games, so different strokes...

[@Z0sHu]

diablo is not mmo

[@jimmie8101]

Agreed. Went right back to ESO after a couple hundred hours. I needed to get my life back.

[@Nanatsuyoo]

"its not extreme pay to win like black desert online", shows that you either didn't play T&L or you didn't play BDO, one or the other.

[@ronniepaulinc]

the grind was awful... All that shit no one wanted to do in WoW is the exact thing you are required to do in TnL to end game gear and they were promising a level increase was imminent. HOLY FUCK NO

[@RobinvanOudheusden-h1x]

@@ronniepaulinc dude im a f2p player playing casually 2 months. Im all epic very far on traits and got blue rune synergy. GS 3630. What grind mate? Your doing smth wrong

[@jANMxRin]

Depends what u play, if u play with a good guild/alliance for open world pvp its dope, for casuals its prob not

[@cameronbelcher3602]

Havent seen you streaming the game how can you call it dead

[@SeiyuRavensong]

Games that time gate always lose me, I want to progress and play at my rate, in my time.

[@ekron4785]

The guild system is immoral, personally i don’t like giving my time and efforts for some entitled dickheads that take your loot and then kick you out of the guild to hide their shit behavior. This is only the tip of the iceberg of problems

[@kermidiu4390]

Don't forget that some of the people playing this game were actually bots! So the real player count is actually lower when you factor that in.

[@ganjaking7160]

I'm over 1000 hours in it's not completely dead however very time costly really hard to pvp without a huge group doing the same tasks over and over will get boring really quickly for most especially when you turn up to the 100th world boss and get nothing or que random dungeons only to get blue loot drops.

[@demianpelos]

Playing the game doesn't look or geel nothing like on the video. The video make you feel like gw2 fluid and so on... But feels like a dreamcast bad movement and not fluid :( walking back doesn't walk back just spin the character. Doesn't feel like an mmo. I wish movement and combat was more fluid like black desert

[@richardj1319]

They force PvP on you during PvE content and there's simply not enough PvE for my taste yet. Loved it for the 200h I played it though, might come back in a year or so.

[@attisthecat]

Agree. after leveling 4 weapons, gear fully traited. They introduce rune grind. Spam repeatable dungeon content with more difficult mechanics. on the face of it, sounds fine for pve'ers... but... - All these dungeons did was separate the players even more. More than ever you will see teams pairing up and leaving others out in the dark. - The amount of dungeons you need to run to "keep up" is outrageous. So, inevitably you have another reason people that just check out. or disregard "higher" tier content. Like they already do for pvp.

[@globalzero]

The runes drop know from almost everything. After tier 5 I find the dungeons inceredible stupid. People were farming those dungeons and avoiding PvP etc.

[@MM-lu2zk]

Finally got to where I could use the market.....and thought "This is crazy, I'm out".

[@FantomDeck]

Lets talk about the abysmal jank of controller on PS and Xbox

[@MrKardovalk]

Did they add already western Cup sizes? if so im a give it a try atleast

[@pilksuk]

PVP Focussed it was never going to be super popular, Stats for decades have shown people prefer PVE with optional pvp.

[@zonedout3390]

It's crazy how devs haven't figured that out yet with stats to prove it with data.

[@kimaxlv92]

CLICK BAIT JUST FOR CONTENT

[@OG_Nomad5]

IT has the same problem Black Myth Wukong and Skull and Bones had, the bosses are to hard and in S and B's case it's pvp.

[@itsjustme3333]

Another issue is the reward system solo and with guilds, if you are in a incredible guild and you put in allot of work during boss raids and you aren't as high in lvl then obviously they have a better chance of obtaining boss gear than you especially if they are paying to win also if you are in a guild with a reward system that will never favor you then you will never get the great weapons that will benefit you for pvp against large number of people who already obtained it also if you chose gs dagger instead of staff wand, or staff long bow then your chances of good drops are 0 even if you have all traits because they can stand back out of harms way and just spam long ranged attacks....smh, if I would have known in the beginning I would have started with long range, spammed my ass off until I received the desired gear then change but playing with up close based weapons are way difficult

[@Dannythespian]

I love it i geared up and got cosmetics without spending a single dollar, our server was gatekept by a top guild and we eventually got together and took over, unfortunately that made them quit but we got to take advantage and gear our members up and now are planning to move to a more populated server, and on top of everything they are definitely helping make the daily grind less n less by adding things that cator to lazy ppl like me like the whole cooking contracts and getting runes from events and world bosses lol

[@saka-y9w]

the problem of this game is target system..

[@Lesminster]

What could be done better? You have 100 players on your screen, how do you pick the one you want form the crowd any better than this gamme offers? Genuine question bcs as much as I also struggle with targeting I think not much can be done about it. Maybe some personal filters, to ignore players wearing SnS or shit like that, but that quickly becomes Eve Online with the amount of complexity :P

[@cyborg7162]

personally the mobile-clunky combat (and the camera) killed the vibe even if the world is gorgeous

[@Garbby000]

I haven't played in a few days, and don't know if I will again. But it's really not a "pay to win" it's more a "pay to get ahead temporarily". My main is over 4100 gs without spending a dime... But yes mega alliances killed the game.

[@MueedKhanNiazi]

It's only available for certain regions Unlike other MMOs

[@joshuatorres4101]

Let's see! 🤔. So the options are: Do i play a new mmo game (TaL), a game that is basically half baked, or do i go to an old mmo game (10-20 years old) and get destroyed by veterans. 🤔🤔🤔

[@adanos4]

GW2 offers something simillar so why would i switch? I have been playing this for around 10 years.

[@harlekln3045]

Absolute true there so many stuff need get changed for me no battlegrounds like capture the flag (war games is the same zergling bullshit like every pvp in this game beside arena) its a cc mess with Aoe garbadge you play longbow or tank thats basicly it. Chest from open world bosses are a myth