IS VENTUS REALLY EVIL?! Kingdom Hearts Union X Story Update - Discussion

Ventus in Kingdom Hearts Union X is on everyone's minds right now. He was recently revealed to be the one not on the list by Brain, and this brings up a ton of questions...
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[@denisfresco3194]

I've told this theory multiple times already, Ventus isn't inherently evil, he is a good boy. Ventus was possessed by Darkness and then killed Strelitzia which is why he doesn't remember anything and isn't aware of doing something like that. Darkness then hid inside of Ventus when they travelled to the future which is where MX extracted Darkness out of Ventus and gave him a human form - Vanitas. Vanitas told us exactly this in ReMind

[@denisfresco3194]

@Tum Tum no he wasn't, he is literally implying that he is Darkness and just hid inside of Ventus for a very long time. When Ventus tells him that they're the same, Vanitas literally tells him that they are not the same like he thinks. This is all implying that it actually is the entity Darkness which hid inside of him and not actually Ventus' darkness because he has none, his heart is too pure (also from ReMind)

[@Dreq458]

so.... the darkness possessed him, killed strelitzia, then unpossessed him, shapeshifted into ava in... ventus' post-possession stupor I guess, gave ventus the guidebook, then met up with maleficent? question: why possess ventus at all? if the argument is that it can't pick up objects, then why not possess someone with ava's physique, grave rob strelitzia, then give the guidebook to ventus? it'd need to possess a 2nd person anyway to hand the book off. then I don't know, walk that body off a cliff. if it can pick things up, then again: why possess ventus at all?

[@denisfresco3194]

@@Dreq458 i never said that darkness shape shifted into ava. reason for possessing ventus i imagine is that darkness can only possess the purest of hearts which have no darkness inside of them already. ventus was too pure of a boy which made him easily able to possess

[@Dreq458]

@@denisfresco3194 ventus said ava gave him the job near the clocktower. that memory shouldn't exist if he grave robbed strelitzia while being possessed.

[@FloofyOneTorpheus]

Um... Vanitas did say he CHOSE to be darkness. He also said he was the part of Ven needed to be whole. So like... maybe Vanitas is like Xehanort? He can still use a keyblade so there's some light inside him still but he intentionally became a seeker of darkness. And he didn't "die" the same way everyone else did so maybe he really did return to Ven? I hope that makes sense even though I didn't properly piece it together

[@40088922]

*assuming* Ventus isn't lying, he met Ava at some point and she made him a leader, so that would mean he didn't kill anyone, which would bring us to square one again, as then we wouldn't know who killed Streletzia once more

[@MaffeGamer]

Well. Then we have one less suspect. Which is some progress

[@LtBasil]

What if his memories are fake? Like, what if Darkness somehow took Strelitzia's memories and implanted them in Ventus so that Ventus would think he was the one who was chosen?

[@shyguy5559]

Darkness within darkness

[@chrisdaughen5257]

Vanitas's line where he says he wasn't actually a part of Ventus has me thinking he was put inside of him by someone and that's why Xehanort chose him. When the time came, he would remove Vanitas to fight against Ventus to forge the x-blade.

[@TerraEmperor1]

Ventus is a good boy. Venitas is just Darkness given physical form. But I'm not completely dismissing the dual personality theory. Looking at has past keyblades as evidence

[@LuckiSir]

Honestly made me think of Vanitas and Ventus being two different people entirely. Vanitas, the Darkness who's slowly starting to remember events from Union Cross. Ventus, the new personality that was born from world-line travel amnesia.

[@chaosglitch3109]

On the "Ven knowing Chirithy subject" Ven may not know who or what Chirithy is in Remind. He might've just thought that Chirithy needed a friend.

[@strife_king]

Chirithy sees him as a someone who was his friend but Ven forgot about him. Chirithy isn’t a dark Chirithy so no ven is not evil.

[@mariosmith2314]

Chirithy is his friend and would not run towards him if it was not his Chirithy and I do believe Ven forgot about him. I also believe Chirithy is nothing more than a reflection of the keyblade weilder's heart. So it is possible that Ven forgotten that he is evil(if the kh series say he is) and had his Dark Chirithy reverted back to his normal/ Light form.

[@Z-A-C]

The darkness entity is the one at fault I'm sure of it, mainly with killing sterletzia. Vanitas had to come from somewhere, and I'm pretty sure that darkness later on in khux gets attached to ventus in some way, and probably causes him to lose his memory in the process. Probably happens in that time travel machine that was shown off in that last cutscene we saw. I would just need a ton of more evidence to believe that ventus is actually evil, if he was evil he would've been evil in birth by sleep or kh3, but he wasn't. He has a heart of pure light, that will probably get tainted badly by darkness in a different way than normal, since his chirothy isn't a dark chirothy.

[@strife_king]

Zomagedon I’m not sure Ventus knows either.

[@pokespartytv8086]

Mario Smith ahh the stretch is real

[@pokespartytv8086]

Zomagedon yes, i am 100% on the train that “darkness” is vanitas. Vanitas states: “we are not the same, i was just locked away inside you for a very long time” and proceeds to continue saying “what I am and all i am is DARKNESS”

[@PGOuma]

Is anyone else confused about the fact that Vanitas was upset about joining with Ventus and disappearing in Re:Mind, but in BBS, Vanitas had no problem with bugging Ventus to join with him?

[@Setzen_Kreig]

Well... that Vanitas was a time travelled heart to the replica, he was only wanting time to say his shit since he knows what happens if he loses and what happens after... Also, at the final battle on Ventus/Vanitas Station of Heart in BBS we saw already Vanitas going back to Ventus Station of heart after both "lose", and in Re: Mind, Sora notices Vanitas voice saying he is Darkness and Ventus pure heart is too easy to control, etc... Basically Vanitas/Darkness at this point, is back to Ventus SoH. In the novel, Vanitas needed a foccus to keep on going living, and that was to join with Ventus and forge the χ-Blade and if you noticed both sides of Ventus were as if 13 Darkness and 7 Light(Ventus) thus it was forged. Just waiting for all of this I've said being all bla bla bla after The real reveal of Ventus true side by Nomura's hahaha.

[@TakeTheWorld21]

My theory is that MoM experimented on Ven’s heart and created Vanitas out of his darkness.

[@SethJoseph95]

I want to know more about this darkness inside Ventus!! This darkness thats with maleficent is definitely the one within Ventus now Whats interesting is that Ventus has a dark inferno who names himself darkness and has vanitas who also names himself darkness. Maybe the dark inferno is the heartless form of Vanitas when Vanitas got extracted from Ventus. 😮 idkk i could be way wrong

[@TroyChurchIX]

this sounds like some kh shit

[@aaronwatson1432]

Here is what I think: "Darkness" may or may not be Vanitas, but either way I still think that Darkness is connected to Ven in some way. Specifically, I think that "Darkness" killed Strelitzia, took her rulebook and then took on the appearance of Master Ava and gave Ven the rule book and made him a union leader. I believe that this is definitely possible because the Master of Masters said that darkness can take on many forms, and since "Darkness" seems to move around in an incorporeal (almost ghostly) form, it wouldn't surprise me if he could change his appearance and voice to impersonate Ava. Not to mention the fact that we've even seen a character change their own appearance to impersonate another character (when Ava impersonated Ira). Anyway, some time after killing Strelitzia and giving Ven the rule book, "Darkness" went off and had his dealings with Maleficent. Then, when it came time for the union leaders to go to the future, Darkness stowed himself away inside of Ven's heart (perhaps to be extracted later as Vanitas). Further details to support this notion comes from the fact that (ReMind spoilers ahead): When the incorporeal Sora went into Ventus' heart, a voice spoke to Sora and this voice identified itself as "Darkness". Then Ventus' heart just suddenly spawned out Dark Inferno X (chi), who certainly wasn't given this name for no reason. There is also some stuff in some of the secret reports that Luxu wrote that I believe connects to this theory as well. Long story short though: I don't think that Ventus himself is evil, but I do think that Darkness specifically chose Ven to do a lot of stuff with (namely to replace Strelitzia in the union leaders and also to stowe himself away inside of Ven's heart as Ven and the others went to the future).

[@n.k.central8279]

I feel like Vanitas himself isnt evil like people think he is. Because although he followed Xehanort etc. You have to remember that xehanort did free vanitas and trained him for a certain period of time so vanitas would naturally have some allegiance to Xehanort. Also Vanitas in kh3 seems more of chaotic neutral where he does things because his heart is darkness and he know no other way but he also respects ventus and sora. So i feel like if some revalation of ventus being respinsible for bad things does come true it has less to do with vanitas and more ventus. Vanitas seems like too easy of a scapegoat. I also feel like maybe vanitas himself may actually remember some of the events of UX that ventus himself does not it would sorta make sense since vanitas is sorta aware of how he was before xehanort freed him and it would give him a good drive to return later on in the kh verse.

[@Caterfree10]

kwame spencer This is what I’ve been saying for ages tbh. I don’t think they’d have Ventus saying “we [Ven and Vanitas] are the same” if Vanitas was 100% evil. Maybe he won’t ever get a redemption like some of us Vanitas fans want, but I’m still on the side of Vanitas is more a product of his circumstances.

[@TreYetto]

Kh3 was definitely not the last of Vanitas so Id like to believe that he might have a semi-redemption.I t would be cool to see them discus darkness used for good. Xehanort tried and failed but Riku not so much even even Sora has a Dark form. Maybe its not about emotions that drive you be it positive or negative emotions. Maybe all its about is what those Emotions drive you to do. Vanitus may always be darkness but his motivations can definitely change right?

[@Caterfree10]

Aka Shodin NGL, I have always wanted one series or another to FINALLY give me someone using Dark powers for good. I didn’t get it in Star Wars, and afaik I’m not getting it in The Dragon Prince either. I’d like SOMEONE to actually pick the middle road for once, ya know? Black and white binaries are so limiting!

[@matthewdickendasher1956]

Ventus isn’t the one I think who can be evil he’s more of a pawn like master Xehanort using him to forge the x blade. The question is why specifically using Ventus to forge the keyblade. The darkness that’s helping maleficent must be someone important.

[@scarletletter5160]

I think Ven was always a cinnamon roll but "Darkness" somehow got inside Ven's heart much like the Sora heart hotel. The person that could've given him that darkness is Ava, and that makes me think "Darkness" is Ava.

[@butterflydecollette2688]

I agree with this. "Sora heart hotel" 😂

[@WilyGryphon]

8:09 Plot twists within plot twists await you! I still think that Darkness is a separate character who has placed a stake in Ventus and Vanitas, and who killed Strelitzia.

[@Dreq458]

my only question: does ventus have any natural darkness? I can understand if vanitas is a fusion of that dark entity and ventus' natural darkness that was ripped out in the process. though if ventus never had darkness, then were there others like him in the ancient past? the darkness in people's hearts was said to have been born from greed over light. khx began when people already carried natural darkness and the "keyblade war" between light and darkness was already in progress. that means the pure light people must've been born one generation prior at the absolute earliest, some time closer to MoM's childhood. however, if ventus always had a pure light heart, then he should've been an adult when khx began. and now we have a blurred drawing of a ventus-esque character standing behind YX whom was born long after the ancient apocalypse. ..... how many times has ventus time travel?? how many goddamn times can one character get amnesia?? no wonder nomura made ventus and roxas different people. this is 50 shades of ludicrous, if I'm on the right track.

[@OGSpaceMarine]

Gosh...Ven is old

[@hillaryslack2884]

I agree Ventus is not evil. It doesn't make sense for his character. Plus his chirithy is a light one. As for why I think he knows chirithy but doesn't remember his union cross days I have an answer. He has been asleep of eleven years. In KH3 he even says that he saw dream eaters. Chirithy is a dream eater that is able to be part of the waking world. He likely was with Ventus most of the time he was asleep. Chirithy choose to go to the final world after Ventus woke because he was both unsure that Ventus would remember him and because the final world is very close to the realm of sleep. As for what Vanitas is. Even in BBS I always got the feeling that Vanitas if he wasn't already was going to become his own person. DDD made those feelings even stronger. After Remind I am kind of feeling that this was always the case. In fact I am not convinced that Vanitas did return to Ventus at the end of their battle in KH3. He may have but I kind of got the feeling that both boys had kind of decided that they didn't want to return to being in one body again. So unless Vanitas never shows up again I am going to guess that he is somewhere else. As for who Darkness is in union cross. They could be any number of things. They could be Luxu, though I kind of get the feeling that Luxu is looking form the outside of the data worlds of union cross. They could be Vanitas but I don't really believe that given how Darkness talks about people that they knew in the past. The most likely thing in my mind is Darkness is Ava, or some person that we have never meet. As for who killed Stralitzia, well it has to be someone that thinks that they can use Ventus is some way but not Stralitzia. After all they would have had to give Ventus the rule book in the form of Ava, or at lest Stralitzia's memories of getting the rule book. So if we are believing that there is no way that Ventus is evil. We are also believing that he thinks that he was given the rule book by Ava in the same place that Stralitzia was. Then we have to ask why is Ventus a better puppet union leader then Stralitzia? I can come up with several reasons. One Ventus has a being of darkness already hiding in his heart. It has been their for a long time and it is giving him a split personality and he will be able to lock it away before his up into the future, then Xehanort will unlock it and it will become Vanitas. Two Ventus is a replica of Stralitzia but the person that killed her was unable to get much more then some memories and a little bit of the personality and so Ventus like Xion give himself a new face. Still even though it wasn't exactly what the killer was going for he was a puppet made to become a union leader. Three Ventus is an embodiment of light and has always been so and as we go into the future of the story we are going to run into more embodiments and we are just going to have to get use to them. As a very young embodiment of light he is very easy to trick and the killer wants him where he will not melt into the background a be lost. Four Ventus is the son of Ava and she decided lost minute to kill Stralitzia and put her son in one of the safest places with the nicest people she could think of. Yeah number four needs work.

[@chaosezel1044]

I'm pretty sure Vanitas is part of MoM's darkness here which is just a part of MoM's big plan. Maybe the Darkness, or Vanitas, had told Maleficent how to came back to the future, Kingdom Hearts 2 timeline to be exact, is due to him have part of MoM's knowledge. I don't know why he told it to Maleficent, but she seems have some role to play in the prophecies or something which yet to be told. Part of MoM's big plan was told at the cut scene where he's talking with Young Xehanort, or so from the looks of it. There's too much than it meet the eyes, this series is. That's just my speculation as no hard proof has been presented yet in the series.

[@blakemalave9071]

Is it possible that the MOM recruited Ventus because he is the only one near the tower and he could've manipulated the book so that history can unfold right which would mean that the book isn't right. A loose theory but it seems like the best reason for me

[@amarie316]

They should really somehow adapt this mobile game into a console game. Because imagine having Union X Cross in Unreal Engine.

[@xXMilkuwuXx]

If I can, There's a part after you save Ventus in KH3 Ventus mentions having a dream with strange creatures and being part of a bigger journey. it could be him dreaming of his memories of the past?

[@jbcatz5]

My long standing theory is a Jekyll and Hyde situation, with Ventus and his alter ego being unaware of each other like Ben and Glory in Buffy season 5. When Xehanort sics Neoshadows on Ventus, imploring him to tap into his darkness, Ventus absolutely refuses and is legit scared. When Vanitas is extracted he’s remarkably well formed. Sora as a Heartless manifested as a measly Shadow, suggesting Ventus sheltered a lot more darkness in his heart.

[@DemiTrusdale3]

Khux has all of the lore. Of course there is an interest. At least until another game is being hyped, then khux will fall to the side, I think. Someone replied to me once that ventus was the ark for darkness... I dunno...

[@charlene1610]

I am firmly convinced that Ventus is not evil. Xehenort and the darkness in himself say that he is too pure. Especially the sentence that a heart that is too pure can be the most careless, makes me think that there is more. In addition, calls Vanitas Ventus only brother in KH3, not before. He also says, "It will shock you, but we are not the same as you think." Ven thinks that he is just his darkness. But here Vanitas says the opposite. I would not now assume that he is darkness in UX but I think it is possible that he was one of the darknesses talking about the MoM. So his friend could be the MoM, I don’t think so at first. But I really don’t think that Vanitas is just Ven’s darkness.

[@charlene1610]

@Tum Tum I also did not say that if there is no darkness inside him , but that he is too pure to cruelly kill someone. At least voluntarily. Ventus also seems to be afraid of the darkness in him in BBS. I also find it strange that Vanitas is so strong even though we see in BBS that darkness is not even half of Ventu's heart.

[@jeffkoenig4250]

Are you kidding me? Ventus... is...NOT...Evil!!! His heart was inside Sora, Sora gave him shelter and protection, and thanks to his appearance, he and Sora’s heart made Roxas, who has the same appearance and voice as Ventus! One more thing, Ventus gave Sora his first Keyblade! Besides, it was still easy for him to fly in Neverland when he still believes in his friends! He still has faith and trust. He made a lot of friends throughout his journeys. Lea, Isa, Phill, Hercules, Zack, Peter, Tinker Bell, Aurora, Cinderella, Snow-White, Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Daisy, Queen Minnie, The 3 good fairies, The 7 dwarves, The little mice, Stitch, Huey, Dewy, Louie, Scrooge, Jumba. But most of all, the ones that he loves most: Master Eraqus, Terra and Aqua! Xehanort is Evil! He doesn’t have love, family, faith or trust, but he did had 1 friend, but somehow his “Darkness” just took him over! Now, he doesn’t believe in the light and he wants to control over Kingdom Hearts! Xehanort is the TRUE Evil being! Ventus is the opposite!

[@Caterfree10]

This is how I think it went down: First, technically, Ven was the one to kill Striletzia, BUT it was under someone else’s control. Darkness, someone else, can’t say for sure, but it was done in a way that Ven was unaware of what he was doing. Or memory wiped, as KH seems fond of that. :p Then, when Ven is falsely appointed, that’s whoever made him do the thing, but disguised as Master Ava (as I don’t believe she was ever aware that Striletzia was murdered and thus would have no reason to look for a replacement for her). At some point down the line, Ven unlocks these memories somehow and locks away either the entity that took over him or his own darkness within himself (kinda similar to what Namine suggested for Riku and his darkness, but on his own power somehow). Cut to pre-BBS when Ven seems to have no memory of KHUX and is still under Xehanort, he is reluctant to use the darkness, perhaps subconsciously knowing that his darkness in particular is not safe to use, especially not how Xehanort wants him to use it. Then, when Xehanort extracts Vanitas, it isn’t just the sundering of Ven’s darkness from his light, it’s completely destroying whatever method was being used to keep that darkness locked away. That’s why he was almost dead before baby!Sora’s heart came to the rescue.

[@chaosglitch3109]

I just feel that jumping to the conclusion that Ventus remembers isn't a good idea. Plus in Birth by Sleep, Terra and Aqua tried asking Ven where he came from. Ven then started to get a massive headache from the thought of it. So if you think about it. Saying he remembers would mean he'd also have experienced pain.

[@dexeronstarsurge]

Well, that wasn't necessarily pain. was from his heavily damaged mental state. He basically just has a mental breakdown.

[@chaosglitch3109]

@@dexeronstarsurge I see. Thank ya. The more I know the better off I am. So thank you

[@n.k.central8279]

On a side note i feel like the events of remind shed some light on Vanitas and ventus' current state as of kh3. When sora winds up in Ven's hearts it gave confirmation of 2 things. 1 that Vens heart is still pure light and 2 that some sorta entity exists inside of vens heart. I believe that the dark inferno that spawns after the fight was infact vanitas but not the vanitas that we see in kh3. I believe that like vanitas said b4 their confrontation was true that being defeated would lead to him being trapped inside ven once more which while on the offset makes it seem like the voice couldnt have been vanitas in remind i would also like to point out that yhe vanitas in kh3 is in fact the shattered remains that were defeated in bbs and brought to the future placed inside a replica to be eventually partially repaired by negative emotions in monsters inc. O believe that part of vanitas' heart remained with ventus' as a seperate heart from ven's after their clash destroying each of them. It would explain why Vanitas needed vens heart to be whole in kh3 since his objective isnt to reforge the keyblade like bbs also it makes more sense as to how Xehanort would use vanitas as a vessel and not completely get rid of one of the guardians of light since vanitas could take back his part of the heart and have xehanort extract vens and use it that way. It also explains why vanitas is never shown with his mask fully removed its simply because he isnt complete and wouldnt have the rest of his face under his mask since part of his heart is sleeping inside ven. Also the dialogue in remind from the unknown darkness inside ven sound similar to what Vanitas would say in response to ven sleeping. Its him talking about ven sleeping while also dissing him in some sorta way. Also him being incomplete inside Ven's heart or weakened would explain why when *if it is him* he appears b4 sora its not his normal humam form rather a depowered dark inferno form since even as an dark inferno its not as strong as the secret boss version we encounter in kh3 . Plus if what im saying is true it leaves a gateway to a future return of vanitas since him being defeated in kh3 seems like the end of him if part of himself isnt left somewhere. Especially since he isnt a nobody like some of the memebers so he wouldnt be recompleted that way and he no longer has a replica body to tether him to the time period he is in.

[@Vexx109]

kwame spencer really good break down. My question to you then is...do you think that Darkness is really Vanitas? Because you bring up a good point...Vanitas in KH3 is not the same Vanitas as in BBS. He is just a vessel at this point. So the motives for Vanitas are vastly different because he wants to be a whole person

[@n.k.central8279]

@@Vexx109 i think vanitas being darkness in UX is just a ploy to throw us off of who really is darkness because if vanitas himself was darkness he most likely wouldnt have been Xehanorts student or underling he wouldve have went off and did his own thing after being freed from ventus and in the event he played along just to get access to the X-blade he wouldve wanted that to be his goal in kh3 as well and not have just been a pawn for xehanort to get it. Darkness in UX seems to have his own goals that he wants and i doubt being under xehanort would help him accomplish them plus vanitas' interaction with ven and sora and the rest of the bbs trio makes me believe he is in fact connected to Ven from the start

[@Altarahhn]

10:47-10:50 In other words, to quote Winston Churchill: "A Riddle, wrapped in a Mystery, inside an Enigma." (Winston Churchill on the Soviet Union, October 1939)

[@adercader1]

He is Master Xehanort’s former apprentice after all... perhaps it’s for a reason. Maybe Dark Road will show us how Ventus became Master Xehanort apprentice and it may tie into a reveal as to why he was made into a leader against Ava’s wishes. I have a feeling there’s something crucial about “darkness” and the book of prophecies not yet mentioned.

[@GabrielleZ]

CooL discussion👍

[@Voulton_S.]

I think Vanitias is nightmare Charithy but connected with a heart and slowly developing its own. As to Aqua and Terra not questioning Ven, I think they did but 1 whole year did past by between III's end and Limit Cut so...

[@Caterfree10]

Silas V. Yeah, Limit Cut is a full year after KH3 and Re:Mind, whatever questions Aqua and Terra had about Chirithy are probably already answered by that point to the best of Ven’s ability.

[@jbcatz5]

The whole Strelitzia murder mystery has been very thin with very few hints and clues. There’d be ages between updates, and half the time it’d just be more a Disney world filler. At least the console and handheld games it doesn’t take a long time to get through Disney worlds at their most filler-y. With this however you’re at the mercy of when updates drop, and it may be five quests, two of which are story and don’t advance the overall Union X storyline. There is however a definite feeling that since more of the story material is covering the UX content and less of the Disney filler (tellingly the novel only includes one Disney world, Wonderland, and everything is omitted), that the story is reaching the conclusion. Questions are being answered and with the announcement of Dark Road it’s unlikely Square will have two gacha games going at the same time, at least with regular updates for both. One thing I would like to see with Dark Road is updates being much closer between Japan and the rest of the world.

[@LtBasil]

The thing is, if Ven was evil then wouldn't his Chirithy be corrupted? But he isn't. He's normal. That alone makes me think that it's highly unlikely that Ventus is the "bad guy" in this situation. I think it's more likely that he either a) had a split personality and his alter ego (Vanitas) did it, b) he got possessed by Darkness and Darkness did it, or c) Darkness did it on his own without Ven, and then implanted false memories in Ven and planted him among the Union Leaders as some sort of sleeper agent (personally I like the last idea the best). There is one thing I'm sure of - Ven's not a villain. He's a victim.

[@marceloleiva3417]

Vanitas himself said it after having his ass kicked in Keyblade Graveyard: 'What I am... is Darkness'

[@Takara358]

Well... The X-blade's light makes up the princesses hearts, but do you suppose that Vanitas' heart is a piece of the original thirteen shards of darkness? It might explain why Ven can make the X-blade within him, although the question over how he got there is still intriguing. Is it like how Xehonart chose Terra as a vessel? Or did Ventus open up his heart to ''Darkness" similarly to how Sora does without knowing his true intentions? How do we know whether Vanitas is being honest at any given moment? Is he trying to mislead Ventus for some reason? What exactly makes him want to follow Xehanort to begin with? Why does the prospect of instigating Armageddon appeal to the guy? What does he get out of it? Am I asking too many questions... -.-

[@amarie316]

Also, things is getting interesting in Union X Cross. I always wonder what will happen next KHUX.

[@devilovesdevil]

That lenny face lmao also I dont see Ven as this super evil dude. There is more to this scenario we cant see yet. I really only see a few options, think darkness killed Strelitzia and faked being Ava as I've seen said. That or darkness has something to do specifically with Ava and after she tells Ven hes a leader at the scene of the crime to change fate. That or it has to do with MoM shenanigans but I agree who knows what they will pull out the hat. The biggest blank spot is what happened to Strelitzia at the time.

[@CS2Malk]

Vanitas is so much darkness compared to when Sora turned into a heartless (even though Vanitas is not a heartless but it's kind of similar). I don't believe that Vanitas is darkness but I do think that Ventus will have trouble managing his darkness in the next union cross updates. I feel like Vanitas is Ventus' darkness but I feel like he was sort of pushed out of Ventus because of someone or something. Vanitas could also have been born due to many conditions being respected (like ventus being plunged in darkness and slowly starting to get overwhelmed and the only solution would be separate the darkness from him which is not a good idea because light and darkness are complements but there were no other choice)

[@CS2Malk]

@@yungbreezy36 I know he is his own person. That is what he probably meant but they were originally one person.

[@CS2Malk]

probably

[@disneyboy3030]

More like Vanitus existed long before Birth By Sleep.

[@Vexx109]

So are we just assuming no one else in the kingdom hearts universe has darkness within them?? In Kingdom Hearts Lore, every one has darkness inside of them except the seven princesses of light. I personally think Vanitas is Ven’s darkness. But I do not believe that Darkness took over Ven just to kill Strelitzia. I personally think that Darkness is MoM because Darkness knows about the book of prophecies. And there is no proof or evidence to suggest that Vanitas knows about the book. I feel like what Vanitas says is literally stating the obvious. He is darkness because he has no light in him. In addition, he is also not the same as Ven because well he doesn’t look like him. I just don’t think it’s fair to assume that he is the same darkness of 100 years ago. Also can someone answer this...if Vanitas is Darkness from 100 years ago. Why does Vanitas look like Sora?? Mind you Sora’s heart found Ven after Vanitas was extracted from Ven. I think that part gets overlooked a lot now.

[@Vexx109]

yungbreezy36 I love people like you who call others dumb but don’t have a good argument...let me help you out. Your response doesn’t answer the question. If you believe Vanitas is Darkness and he is a separate being from Ven. WHY does he look like Sora? Remember...Darkness who is supposedly Vanitas came from Ven correct? You don’t believe that Darkness could be any other person than Vanitas...that’s your position. But In the dialogue when Vanitas reveals his face to Sora....he says “He (Vanitas) was the piece taken away from Ventus” and Vanitas continues and says “Sora was the piece that Ventus needed in order for Ventus to be whole again”. None of that explains WHY when Vanitas was created by Xehanort...he looks like Sora.

[@Vexx109]

yungbreezy36 btw where in the JP dialogue does Vanitas tell Ven that they were originally separate beings?

[@charlene1610]

@@Vexx109 Of course it wasn't nice to insult you right away, but he's right. I did some research after reading this comment. In Japanese, Vanitas really says "I and you are orginally different beings" instead of "we are not the same as you think". He looks like Sora because of the connection between Sora and Ventus. He may have connected to Ven's natural darkness by hiding in Ventus. So he's become part of Ventus or something 🤷‍♀️. Ventus also says that Vanitas should return where he came from and that doesn't seem to be originally from Ven. Maybe it will be overthink but for me the dialogues say something else.

[@Kira1Lawliet]

Here's one thing: I don't believe Vanitas time-travelled back in time. And here's why. In every instance where a character has traveled back into the past (without using the power of waking, mind you), their heart had to be unlocked first in order to do it. Xehanort had to unlock his heart with No Name in Radiant Garden to turn himself into a Heartless and travel back in time to his younger self, and Maleficent had to be stabbed by Riku, unlocking her heart, in order for her to travel back into her Union X data counterpart. Nothing of the sort has happened to Vanitas, so it's impossible for him to travel back in time. Besides, even if he did, he'd be stuck in an endless loop, and it wouldn't really lead to anything, because then Darkness wouldn't be an original entity that fused with Ventus, he would just simply be Vanitas going back in time and repossessing his own original self, which would be pointless. As for the identity of Darkness pre-union with Ventus, I'm still convinced it may be the Nightmare Chirithy from the browser game. He outright said we wouldn't see the last of him in that game. And also, the form that Darkness takes when you fight him in Ven's heart-I can't discount the significance of that scarf, either. I would be surprised if Ephemer didn't have something to do with it.

[@Vexx109]

Kira1Lawliet I completely forgot about nightmare Chirithy. That’s a really good point

[@KnoshoVisuals]

Nobody is talking about how Vanitas has the MoM eye on his keyblade.

[@yungbuckrunamuck]

If anything say he was supposed to bad guy, I feel like hes the goku of the series he bonked his head somewhere and became a good guy (I kid, I kid).

[@xoderota]

I just don't want Ventus to be evil, he's one of my favorite characters because he's such a cinnamon roll

[@lagforce7473]

I think people Are looking too deep into that kh3 ending scene Remember ventus is A good person at heart from what we see He clearly seen Chirithy Looked nervous so he welcomed chirithy in with open arms like a nice person would

[@clarehidalgo]

His chirithy should still be connected to him even if the memory is gone, the bond still remains. So I don't think his memory need to have returned for him to feel a connection to his chirithy

[@lagforce7473]

Clare Hidalgo yea but still though it’s obvious ven doesn’t remember chirithy but he wants friends so He Welcomed chirithy

[@MyFallenRomance]

What if vanitas has dark chirithy

[@Z-A-C]

The darkness entity is the one at fault I'm sure of it, mainly with killing sterletzia. Vanitas had to come from somewhere, and I'm pretty sure that darkness later on in khux gets attached to ventus in some way, and probably causes him to lose his memory in the process. Probably happens in that time travel machine that was shown off in that last cutscene we have. I would just need a ton of more evidence to believe that ventus is actually evil, if he was evil he would've been evil in birth by sleep or kh 3. And even if vanitas was just the dark part of ventus, why doesnt terra or riku have a separate darkness entity of themselves?

[@cesarquint256]

I am replaying in proud and some misions ago i see when a chirity talk to me and maybe give me something (don't remeber) and leave and just after that a other chirity come and is surprided (i assume the later one is my chirity so) it seems we got different orders from a different chirity here and there, i assume is the one who became dark chirity but from who he is? Ven? And are we the only one who gave different orders? I remeber my first playtrough and My suspicius from the chiritys were even there.

[@sinpaisama9145]

I think it’s fairly clear right now that darkness ends up inside Ventus before he time travels with one of those arks.

[@Thedude38356]

I believe Ventus is a smokescreen when it comes to Strelitzia. I'm sticking to the theory that Skuld is the killer. Don't underestimate her.

[@Rain-kh3kq]

I just hope they don’t make vanitas his own person I like him as being the dark half of ventus

[@CreamerOfTheDairySquad]

I very much enjoy the union cross content but I hate the game play. I stopped playing a long time ago but played enough to get my union cross username in the big list in Kh3 lol so yeah keep these up!!

[@skyhart1377]

What if Darkness used to be the MoM's childhood friend who became darkness during the keyblade war from that time.

[@jefferyfosterjf]

You cannot resist Ventus.

[@blacksunday7205]

I keep saying this: Ventus is Sora’s and Kairi’s son from the future. He was kidnapped as an infant and sent to the past so the Master Of Masters can keep an eye on the Union leaders. Ava is the killer and the traitor, and only the Master Of Masters knows it. Ventus is innocent!

[@Salthat]

Actually, Nomura has specifically said that he’s not gonna pair up anyone in the past... It’s kind of a well known fact at this point.

[@charlene1610]

@@Salthat Yes, of course, and Remind wasn't focused on Sora and Kairi at all? And in KH3, it just happened to be about love in every world. Otherwise he would not have made the allusions in old games. It just happens to have two montages over Sora and Kairi. In 2.8 after all Disney couples and now with the orchestra to the love song Don't think twice. Nomura said that KH is about friendships and is currently not official. But never said that we would never get a pair between KH characters. I would not say that Ven is Kairis and Soras son, but it cannot be denied that the two have romantic feelings for each other. He also said that the MoM will not appear in KH3. Nomura didn't lie. He does not appear in the main story of KH3. Only in the secret ending and in a DLC.😂

[@smoki0_K]

So basically this is another *_Darth Jar Jar_* situation

[@CreamerOfTheDairySquad]

Was anyone surprised that ventus wasn't on the list?

[@nextflow3033]

4:31-4:34 at 0.25x speed there’s a in game text in Japanese

[@simpleandcleanedits3846]

Wait is Union x a story of the past. like the dandalions aren't still in that data world as sora battles the darksness in kh3?

[@01Danni10]

Yeah! You're not the only one! 😄 I've always believe he's not the Killer! He can't be! The Ven I know would never do such a thing!

[@ffviifangirl1]

I want Darkness to be a separate entity. Not a character we know or not a character at all. We don’t need darkness to have a body or anything

[@alfredhinton8792]

Ven has his darkness during union x and why and how did Ven have stretzia’s union leader place. And I think Ven has something to do with Darkness.

[@29Blockhead]

How did Vanitas get a body?

[@theheroneededwillette6964]

Fairly sure there’s a split personality thing going on here.

[@3V1LKNIGHT]

Ventus IS Evil. why do you think he was Xehanort's first pupil? maybe he found a stray Ventus in the Real of Darkness some time in the future?

[@MiyreaZED]

lol a few hours later DARK ROAD INFO

[@alexheap4478]

Xbox KH 1.5+2.5!!!

[@justxe7686]

Ven is too cute to be evil!

[@jbcatz5]

Aria Sapphirevalley You think cute can’t be evil? You haven’t met Beep the Meep. A cute widdle fuzzie wuzzie, with an appetite for destruction. Let the streets run red Spread our message of pain When they beg for their lives Use the pliers again

[@JDB100]

It always be the sweetest ones that turns out to be evil.

[@DF-xj4pv]

As much as I hate the thought (bc Ventus is set up as this shining beacon for Sora and Aqua) but it would make an awful lot of sense to me. We all know it can't be Ephemer or Skuld. Lauriam is out since it was revealed who he is and Brain is too obviously set up to be the sketchy one. And we're already pre-disposed to trust Ventus bc of the main series, even though we know nothing about him. It would make sense why Xehanort picked him as a student then. And if his darkness was that much stronger than his light, it makes sense that Vanitas could exist just fine on his own, while Ven needed Sora. I'm not sure about the chirithy. But if it's possible for them to become a nightmare, then it should also be possible to turn back if their owner is redeemed. Especially if their darkness is so forcefully extracted. A nightmare half might still be running around...?

[@MrRobot-0]

The thing is union is a such shitty game that everyone just see the story on youtube.

[@simpleandcleanedits3846]

Toooooo many questions. i cant take it

[@8bitmagic]

No no no I don't want to PLAY union cross...the lore is great so just HEARING about it is ideal. Play so I don't have to, my content slave (jokes). Don't give them money for it though, don't reward them lol.

[@joshz2491]

I don’t care about ventus past I only care about Kairi’s we literally have nothing about it other than that RG Is her homeworld

[@melvinm.261]

God I hope so. To tell ya the truth, I dont really like Ven due to his character just being Kh1 Sora but more gullible. If it turns he does have a dark side or at least a split persona, then he can stand out from the crowd and be more than just another cinnamon roll. (If this is the case, I REALLY hope Square Enix doesn't give up on his character halfway through)

[@Th3GaMb3r]

A lot of people are ignoring the fact of ventus and xhenort age difference!!! Xhenort is much older than ventus!! There’s no wat ventus could be there!! When aqua n sora fought venitus! Ventus said he was in some adventure with some different people

[@mickeycorl503]

Good and bad

[@darktheg.o.d5541]

Vanitas has to be ven's darkness or none of this makes sense because ven can't have a heart of pure light 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@captaindystopia]

you all miss something big here. the question isnt if ven killed strelitzia the question is if darkness killed strelitzia and as far as we know its not that likely but still very likely. you also forgot that gula was told to not tell anyone about the book of prophecy and yet he did which makes him also a candidate for being the traitor.

[@captaindystopia]

in order to actually move on we must look at dark chirithy who probably belongs to darkness or the actual traitor. we dont know yet. if dark chirithy belongs to darkness then vanitas mightaswell be a keyblade wielder who lost everything until he met ventus who was willing to share his body to safe vanitas or whoever.

[@Setzen_Kreig]

Don't forget that Ventus uses Missing Ache and must have something to do with him not having a single friend for quite a long time. Hope they try to explain the Key chains out of only in-game mechanics and give a explanation.