Is YOUR MINIATURES GAME DEAD?

[@WillCalwell]

The problem is that Games Workshop release so much stuff on a very regular basis that all other companies seem slow in comparison. They're really not.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I’ve literally just had this exact conversation this morning. I think the other companies need to focus on communication as it’s the long periods of silence about a game that make folks think a game is dead rather than a slower release schedule.

[@toooldfortwowheels2048]

This is precisely the reason why people think other games don't move quickly. I think its an issue, 40k players are quite spoiled by the speed of releases (I know some people are waiting for various codex, but seriously it's fast comparatively). I worry about buying Into anything these days, I bought into Infinity during V2 I to V3 and some of my factions were removed, I got into Flames of Ear heavily and spent thousands on it, got quite a butn on that one too. Modern business models for the games companies now rely on new armies or incarnations of them for revenue so if you buy in at a bad time you could lose out financially and it leaves a really sout taste.

[@paulm7204]

It's why I like historical gaming. Rulesets may go out of fashion, but the models can always be reused

[@shaneannigans]

I'm the same, but with 'generic' fantasy. I hate the that term, and prefer 'familiar fantasy' but, whatever, they can usually be re-used in the next fantasy game system 😊

[@Corvinuswargaming1444]

games don’t die gamers are just addicted to a cycle of consumerism

[@davidmartyn5044]

Top comment. The amount of people who just want to collect a game is noticeable. There is a healthy tournament scene, but just to post in a clubs page does anyone want a game of Mantic`s the walking dead, you will get no replies.

[@Dreddnought1]

Dust Warfare, AT-43, Confrontation 3.5 (Metal) and 4 (Plastic) all deserve some love.

[@maxxon99]

The way I see it: - A truly dead game is one no one plays anymore. - Then there's games where the publishers has gone out of business and the only stuff you can buy is remaining stock at retailers. The game is kept alive by the fans only - Then there's discontinued games you can't buy right now from the publisher but that might come back (like Bloowbowl did) - The rest are really just games with varying levels of (poor) support

[@nurglerider781]

Part of the problem with "dead games" is that people seem to feel like a game has to be constantly being updated or getting new items or it's not worth playing. We've become conditioned by corporations like GW and WotC to think this way because of their frankly ridiculous release schedules. Everyone seems to be so hungry for the new shinies they don't bother to even try to be happy with what they already have. A game can be simply done. It can need no balance passes (no game will ever be 100% balanced, not even chess). It can simply be a game that was released and is, in and of itself, just fun to play. Sure there is always the possibility that it goes OOP, and that does suck a lot. But look no further than the examples you've given where the community just refuse to let a great game die. Mordheim for example. Every game that is no longer supported by the company (usually GW admittedly) becomes better in the hands of the community and once more usually becomes miniature agnostic as a result which will always be a win for the players.

[@jasonnewell7036]

I feel very upset over the death of Wrath of Kings. It was so unique as a fantasy setting. Unfortunately, CMON just stopped producing it.

[@robmildon8612]

GENTLEMEN

[@tervindar507]

I agreed, I wish I would have bought house hadross when I could have.

[@digitalwastrel]

Pouring one out for WoK ;-; Super cool to see a fantasy setting without all the generic orcs, elves, etc, and the rules were pretty fun too

[@dr_keenbean]

I will never not be mad about WoK. Me & friend went all in on it then one day just *poof* gone.

[@anealpilot6957]

Anima Tactics was an heavily manga inspired game that was discontinued in 2015, fell in love with some of the miniatures because the anime look, though a handful of the miniatures are kind of flat and lack dynamic posing or implied movement as some miniatures. Still, there's a warm spot in my heart for them.

[@ScreamingTc]

Adeptus Titanicus is starting to feel this way. GW has a thing for turning every games system into a micro-transaction, recurrent spend-fest, so when a games system exists that doesn't lend itself to it.. Well, there's a reason I compare AT to being GW's illegitimate red-headed step-child. The first couple of years were amazing for releases, but as time has gone on, the release schedule has grown from a healthy flow to a trickle. Heck, it's still the only boxed game that still hasn't had a "How to play" guide over on WH+. Shame, too, because it's a fantastic games system.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I actually mentioned this game in the longer full live stream as an example of one of those games that just doesn’t seem to get a mention any more.

[@KT-pv3kl]

That's why 3d printers exist. At and BFG 2 of the best ruleset GW ever released and NOT screwed up to sell more models are currently thriving on 3d printed new and interesting models and a steady supply of fanmade rules updates and scenarios

[@tim192837645]

I've felt this way about the Drop-Commander universe, Dropfleet in particular. Knowing that they were about to fail before TTCombat bought them out doesn't help either. That said, it's easy to see other games as dying when compared to GW's incessant release schedule. I look at the other games I play and none of them even come close.

[@jefffreese947]

Always loved Confrontation by Rackham. It was a great skirmish level fantasy game with amazing miniatures, but Rackham went public and that killed the Company as they tried to grow too big, too fast.

[@NCordaro321]

I think Privateer Press are against the ropes and MK4 is their way to start swinging back and if this MK4 proves to be successful I think they're gonna slowly revisit all their other games and take this same approach. 3D printed models with the holes for magnets pre sculpted onto the miniature. I'm gonna be buying a starter set tomorrow for 2 reasons. The first being that there is a community in my area resurfacing for the game and I've always been interested in it. The second reason is to get the models in my hands and see if their approach is actually feasible.

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

It's amazing how excited I was for it, and how all of that excitement vanished the second I saw the overmarked price.

[@NCordaro321]

@Andrew Fairbanks considering I don't have to pay $100+ for a rulebook and army book I'm able to stomach that price more than I stomach prices from other gaming companies. I think Privateer Press and Mantic have it right in using the app plus subscription model for rules. Other companies need to take note of that. And with mantic I have no problem paying for the rulebook a d subscribing to the app as they price their rulebooks quotes reasonably and they include the army lists with them.

[@snarkymcsnarkface1863]

Well the gencon models I got my hands on were embarrassing as a retail product. I do a better job 3d printing without trying. Everything they were doing wrong is/was like looking back at the first year of a 3d printing hobbyist problems. It boils down to bad cleaning and curing from inexperienced printers. Also the resin they used is well just cheap. I do a hybrid resin for detail and plasticity. You can drop an entire tray of spear men in the ground you won't break a spear tip off. I had the hammer off the cygnar jack fall off while painting it, it just snapped in my hand with edge highlight pressure. From a model stand point they looked good. A good primer will hide most of the print line issues there was one spot on a Khador jack I had do a second cost of primer to smooth out the blemishes/print lines of a "bad" print. If you were printing then at home and this was the results you would not complain. My gripe is they are a retail product that looks worse than what I do daily. I am not personally happy with the jump forward in the design. It borrows way too much from warcaster. But that is a personal gripe and i prefer hordes so we wait and see. My other personal grievance is they killed ret the only warmachine army I liked and the replacement it with just discount cryx in.a warcaster skin suit. Dusk does have Great rules though. Honestly mk4 around here is not DOA, people are getting games in but it is not popular either. We have our three orgoth/Khador/cygnar players having a grand ol time beating each other up and stuff. while everyone else limps along waiting to see what happens with their favorite factions. And me salty AF in the corner playing infinity.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

All reports seem to indicate that they have iterated the process since the Gencon boxes (which have gotten a lot of bad press, even if mine were fine - just one example of breakage (until I decided to throw two models across half the room with a sweeping blanket) that fixed up easily, and the antialiasing also cleaned up quite easily with some light sanding. But it is still printed resin, so improving the durability will be an ongoing process. The Dusk warcaster is really cool - a friend got him last week and the model looks amazing IRL but is difficult to photograph, but they seem to be starting to utilize the opportunities 3d printing brings - he was in one single printed piece.

[@Skizzix_]

On the topic of actually dead games, I'm one of the people playing Heroscape long after its death. I recently dug out all of my stuff when they announced Age of Annihilation. When that failed to reach goal (which I could rant up and down about how mismanaged that was with frankly way to high of a goal. It boggles my mind that 1 mil is not enough but I digress) I decided fuck it I will try to revive this game at least locally. Since there are high quality scans of all the official figures and most of the "official" customs I'm in the process of slowly 3d printing everything and painting them up while demoing the game at my local store. The pitch is basically I have everything if you want to try armies out, and if you want your own stuff I will print it around at cost. The scene for Heroscape is generally alive and well more or less, its just for any weeklies I would have to drive like 2-3 hours so I'm trying to build something closer to home.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

There are so many great rulesets that just fall out of fashion or maybe the company isn’t making the money they want/need to. Doesn’t instantly make them bad games and as long as folks are willing to put in some effort like yourself then that game is alive and well.

[@Jasper-ry8gu]

Firestorm Armada. Great system ran by a company that couldn't concentrate on one thing at a time and destroyed themselves. Picked up by Warcradle, but thet don't appear to be in a rush to do anything with it.

[@akaken23]

I still play Warhammer Fantasy Battles 4th & 5th edition and love the Runewars Miniatures Game. They're still fun so I'll keep playing.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

If you're having fun then you're doing it right!

[@Mark-nh2hs]

4th edition WHF was where I started collecting and playing lol. Love and miss the old magic cards - always looked forward to the magic phase 😊

[@DrWKruger]

Another raised hand for Dreadball with an added vote for the near born dead Overdrive (played that more than anything else last year but get the feeling it was an appreciable percentage of all games played worldwide...). Dreadball has a fair few hardcore players, but it is very regional in nature and there's no one able to organise tournaments in the UK at the minute. Hearing a lot about Warhammer Underworlds being dead (and it certainly is up my way), but I think there was multiple tournaments last weekend alone with in excess of a dozen players at each.

[@kwalkrkcco4397]

I still play Battlefleet Gothic, Man O War and Epic 40K (all pretty much dead games) and also still bring out the old Mercs game every once in a while. And really enjoy the reboot of Adeptus Titanicus; just not sure what else they will make for it. Ork Gargants perhaps, or Eldar Titans??

[@iancampbell5578]

Wild West Exodus was my favorite game for a long time. I really hope Warcradle comes back to it soon!

[@crippledfoxgaming]

I'll always ring the bell for Dreadball. They topped off the "franchise" (There's 25 teams) and cleaned up a lot of the rules. I think it's almost a perfect game. The teams are all so asymmetrical and varied, you'll never get the same game twice. I think the fan base is going to pick up the slack and keep it going. Which is great. I can make custom sculpts on Heroforge.😁

[@maxxon99]

Dreadball is a great game. But from the business perspective, it's hard to get the existing players to buy more stuff. The market is saturated.

[@ponge8720]

We're starting a new league after a few years hiatus in our local club. I honestly think it's the best game Mantic has made besides KoW.

[@cptlazyjack]

Warcradle are frustrating at the moment with WWX. Their 'Lost World Exodus' release was promised over 4 years ago!

[@Seabass0930]

I'm in the US and I wanted to play the Batman/DC minatures game so badly but it was Knights who killed it here. No support, terrible quality control, almost no communication with the fan base, and it was near impossible to get models here in the states. Shame they have amazing looking sculpts.

[@baneprobably]

Same

[@jaydenatreides]

Not to mention the rules are all over the place sometimes

[@Zzrik]

I think the problem is access to things,like you can find say GW stuff anywhere where as not every game store you go with carry stuff for those other games your play. I'm sure that GW have ways of knocking out or keeping competition from showing up in stores by various means, the same could be said about paint for example as you can find Citadel colors every where in most game stores where as brands like Vallejo and Scale 75 wich are both better than Citadel are very hard to come buy unless you buy them online. Everyone comparing games to GW's also hampers the success and sales of other games.

[@stonehorsegaming]

As long as proxy models can be bought, and the rules can be obtained either in physical or digital format, a game is not dead. That said, some games have models that are too specific, and hard if not impossible to get proxies for, so that will be a big barrier.

[@tmorton42]

Ahh, Rune Wars miniatures game. Dead, dead. But even then, the minis are still useful for pulp alley or gdf fantasy. We have a little sub group within the FLGS that aren't drawn to 40k or aos. We play skirmish indie type games and try a lot of different games. This weekend is space weirdos. So dead...is mostly a very localized concept, as you said. There are players for Rune wars out there. So it's not really dead either. The game is dead, long live the game! 🤣

[@williamboyle5531]

I play 15mm historical, using rules not put out by any of the big companies. So, by definition, my entire hobby is dead.

[@paulhorn7855]

Those are the best rule sets!

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

I think what happens at a lot of these NEW miniature wargaming companies if you have these folks who are passionate and enthusiastic about a game and a game world and a set of models and rules. They push it hard at launch to drive a Kickstarter (maybe they even have a Kickstarter consultant helping them). Then the Kickstarter wraps up, and they have to go into production mode. Production is all expense and they've essentially already made all of their sales. Production ends up costing more to spin up than they intended. Now they need more money but they can't make any money off the game because it's either not out to backers yet or they've already gotten most of their sales in the Kickstarter. So now they need something new. And they immediately go back to Kickstarter to launch yet another product, reinvest their marketing budget into that. And it feels like they abandoned the first game. Because, well, they kind of have. It's a Kickstarter treadmill where they are always making most of their sales at a discount ahead of product launch. And eventually it burns their fans out. Eventually, they hit a Kickstarter that doesn't go like they expected because they have fans who backed the first two and are still waiting on delivery of the first one and the company is over here trying to pitch a 4th. By the time the fans get delivery of the first the company is like 5 products away from it and all the talk about new stuff for that first product has dried up. It's kind of like how every video game company decided they were going to be Fortnite. But the reality of people's time and money is that it can't support infinite live service games. The same is true of Kickstarter. A wargaming fan can back a few Kickstarters a year max on average. They can't back a Kickstarter every month or two from dozens of companies. That just isn't tenable. I can think of a few companies who have fallen into this trap and are now dealing with the consequences. And one of them (despite not being a "new" company as I said at the top) is Privateer Press. They had several successful Kickstarters before they hit the wall. Which then seems to have lead them to launching MKIV early because they couldn't do a Kickstarter to drum up capital to get production funded (this is a theory, I don't have any insider knowledge). I'm a Warmachine fan and I am enjoying MKIV. But there's no doubt PP have gone about this the wrong way and it is seemingly driven by two factors. The first being that Kickstarter treadmill drawing their focus away from Warmachine for so long and causing them to launch and then seemingly abandon Warcaster: NM. The second being that their social media and advertising presence is basically non-existent. It would be free for them to reach out to different YT creators to paint their minis. They could just send em free stuff doesn't even have to be a sponsorship and the creator might be incline to paint it. They aren't active on their sub reddit at all. etc. That kind of presence would be invaluable in making the games feel alive and get new players into them.

[@stephengilbert8166]

I still play and love my Thane Tostig miniatures game, which I was given for Christmas in 1977. I play it lots :-)))

[@paulm7204]

It seems to me that many folks perceive a game to be "dead" (and most importantly use this perception to stoke up notions that the game isn't worth playing or getting into) if its owner ceases to produce lots of new releases for it. I feel some of this feeling is due to comparisons to GW's massive release schedule which in reality no smaller company can emulate. I believe that most (non-GW) games after the first flush of "new shiney syndrome" sales settles down into a routine of sparse releases. Heck even GW themselves to this - e.g. with MESBG, and many of their "boxed games" or "specialist games". The reality is its just that slower release schedule is all that can be justified by the volume of sales. So I think there is some perception problems to be addressed here. Firstly I do think smaller companies need to see the value of keeping their games in the public eye, even if there are no new releases planned - it does irritate me how many smaller companies only promote new releases to existing fans, and do very little to promote their existing stock to new players. Secondly the fans need to just calm down and stop having unrealistic expectations. Personally I play more historical games these days, and they never die, they just get new rulesets! And also I play many "miniature agnostic" games (just started getting into Xenos Rampant) and minis from "dead" games are the bread and butter of playing them (I repurposed my AT-43 Red Blok models for XR, and my mate dug out some old pre-primaris Space Wolves). To be fair as well, no game is truly dead until you can't persuade someone else to play it with you! Of course we all know the clubs and stores that are "GWombies" and refuse to play anything that is not on GW's current release schedule. Unless you are into the same scene, its best avoiding those players. Persevere though and eventually you'll find someone to play. Just keep at it and be prepared to meet people half way - have a spare army for them to lend, play a game of what they want and ask that in return they'll play a game you want to. It helps if you develop friendship groups beyond just random pick-up game partners - so perhaps it may take playing a few games against the same opponent before you ask them "have you seen this game, do you fancy giving it a try?" Expecting to rock up to a bunch of 40k players you don't know and have them instantly convert to the joys of Infinity (or whatever) is naive in the extreme. But just because that tactic fails, doesn't mean the game you fancy, but can't see being played is "dead".

[@5p3cu10]

A company that needs a rocket up the arse is TTCombat. More specifically for Carnevale and the Drop universe. Now people are gonna say "they bring out new stuff" which is true. However, nobody hears about it. They never do battle reports or make a fanfare or scene about it and it feels lackluster. It certainly damages the game's perception toward potential players. I am someone who is heavily invested in the Drop franchise and even I feel a bit "meh" when they announce something. It's barely an announcement.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I couldn’t agree more - almost zero communication when they release anything!

[@MrNunkeymutts]

I think communities expect more from companies now re ip/system engagement. Shifting meta, new releases (even modest ones), fan art/mini painting/modding/crafting.. tournaments, showcase games… so many ideas that could be utilised to draw focus to the game.

[@SamOnMaui]

Aristeia is interesting in that nothing new is coming out to retail but it gets digital support via AGL.

[@leozone2759]

Malifaux is one of the games. It's sad to say I never see videos for unboxing when it comes down to new models, etc. But I can say this the models are pretty dope.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I’ve tried making them but sadly they don’t seem to get watched. Vicious circle!

[@username12120]

I wish Mutant Chronicles: Warzone would stop dying every time it pops back up. Has a reputation of being cursed and no one wants to give it a chance, players or stores. And I can't blame them. You end up with an army that you don't really want anymore or shelves worth of dead stock.

[@MarcoLucaTripepi]

I couldn't agree more on Godtear status. The game is just there sitting without any visible support except for a Champion relasing from time to time during the year. I've been trying to get a hold on the new campaign kit for ages but with no FLGS in the area it seems impossible

[@jspinac1]

FUBAR ONE-PAGE RULES BETTER NOT BE DEAD!

[@unclebones]

I got into WestWinds Empire of the Dead, a Victorian Gothic horror skirmish game after my FLGS got their retailer pledge after the kickstarter. Its still being stocked on the webstore, and the full range unlocked still produced but the small community of players that started up has now dwindled. Shame really as its a great game.

[@mordecaitoth6703]

The most popular games at my FLGS are Star Wars: Legion, Horus Heresy and the Warhammer Armies Project. My go to home games are the skirmish games Space Weirdos and Reign in Hell because they are quick and easy to get in to and a whole lot of fun.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

This is what I mean about a lot of the time it’s a games visibility - Horus Heresy doesn’t get played where I am and over the Black Friday sales it seemed like everywhere was selling it off cheap to unload it.

[@matthewwilkinson4781]

Dust 1947 has a big following still. But is no longer supported. CMoN just acquired the license to make a game but I doubt it’ll be a full battle game. I also play Warlords of Erewhon which warlord games sells but doesn’t support.

[@jayfishpaste4000]

These days games die when they hit the shelf and don’t live up to the kickstarter/advertising hype. I would say half the games produced today are to take your money and “adios”. There have to be alpha gamers willing to play/promote and invest their own time to grow the franchise. Sadly, that requires effort; with so many games being produced, no one sinks that kind of time in one game knowing the next thing is just days away. Many of the best miniature games have died due to lack of committed alpha efforts. Thus, you end up with Black Powder and other half-assed games selling only on name recognition. “Give me new” has supplanted “give me good.”

[@willcorlett7630]

As always an interesting watch, but I feel you miss the obvious point, nowadays there is simply so much out there that the games/systems many people play are not dead but simply overtaken by the next "big thing" . By Big Thing I mean the product that some manufacturers strategically place with popular sources, YT or magazines etc to get maximum exposure and get that buy in. It is simply the case that you cannot play everything and your gaming income is limited (even if you do not tell the wife) and so I suspect that most people might splurge on something new here and there but general they (and their group ) stick to what is popular with them. In other words games never die, there s always someone who is playing.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

Thanks - I don’t personally think missed the point - that was one of the points I made. I said that a game is never truly dead if someone’s playing it and for a lot of games they’re not dead but perceived to be dead by communities that just don’t see them played. No one is expected to play everything that’s for sure but I feel a lot of folks assume some games are dead purely because they just don’t see them being played or available in their local store. I just think that the companies who own these games maybe have more of a responsibility to communicate about them.

[@Youdotty]

In my community everything that isn't Games Workshop or Infinity is dead. It's very difficult to get a game of Warmachine and impossible to get a game of Malifaux or anything else.

[@nicolaspintelon4329]

Warmaster got a huge following, active community all thanks to 3D printing and some fantastic sculpts

[@tiredguy2753]

Is kings of war vanguard dead or perhaps “hibernating” is a better term? I don’t think there has been any new vanguard stuff in a while.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I think Mantic are considering how to take the game forward. You can still buy it but its not actvely being worked upon as far as I'm aware.

[@tiredguy2753]

@@BlackJackLegacy Hmm it will be interesting to see where they take Vanguard. Are we talking a whole new re-work or more like a bit of a rules tweak here and there? And yeah I realize that Mantic is working on their other games atm and I am sure Vanguard will "get it's turn" but I do wonder for a new player is it better to give Vanguard a try now or wait till Vanguard "gets its turn" first?

[@BlackJackLegacy]

@tiredguy2753 my educated guess is it would be a full overhaul and it’s some way off. If you like the rules then by all means play it now but I don’t think it’s the easiest game to find folks who play it right now.

[@DarthSid]

Star Wars Armada = zombiegame, at least for now 😂

[@BlackJackLegacy]

Braaaaaaaiiiiiiinnnnnsssss!!! 🧟‍♀️

[@wolfsigma]

Agreed. But man... its a game that can go FOREVER with a 3D printer. I have an MC-40 that is my favorite and is a second medium rebel ship. Heck... I think EC Henery provides a printable model for every ship he makes for youtube...

[@Krutamuzyka]

Shame about Wild West Exodus. The minis are great and the lore is fun - it's weird that it never really seemed to take off in the way (I think) it deserved too. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on why!

[@BlackJackLegacy]

They spent a lot of time marketing it in the early days but it was constantly changing with rules updates that I felt I needed to leave it for a while to be a little more settled. By the time I did they’d pretty much stopped talking about it!

[@benkochskamper3092]

Just played in a 50 man Warhammer fantasy 6th edition event this weekend just gone by. Apparently they had 12 or so on the wait list. 6th edition has seen a big revival the last couple of years. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with the upcoming release of the old world.

[@TheBunnan]

the BEST edition of Warhammer Fantasy :)

[@benkochskamper3092]

@@TheBunnan would say the most balanced when you look at army books. Personally I prefer the core rules of 7th edition with 6th edition army books. 6th is still a great game though.

[@stonehorsegaming]

​@@benkochskamper3092I think WFB has a big revival due to the sheer number of affordable plastic fantasy kits now available. It had removed the big obstacle of entry.

[@lilchinesekidchen]

I’m so excited for warmachine to have a comeback. it was like a good slightly sleeker battletech

[@CesarIsaacPerez]

I love Godtear too! Play it at home with my sister and nephews. I bought 4 armies for Wrath of Kings on clearance from miniature market. I bought a bunch of stuff for DeadZone because you recommended it, but still haven't put it all together. I've got a copy of the rules for Mordheim and plan on playing a campaign. My top 3 games are Age of Sigmar, WarCry and Frostgrave but the only Wargame that gets played at my local gaming store is Warhammer 40K, so I have 6 armies for that.

[@georgemiller2129]

Privateer Press is so bad at promoting their stuff. MKIV is alive and well, with the best miniatures and rules they have ever had. But they allow the volunteer who moderates their facebook to be a bit of a draconic tool. And it makes everything look bad. (to be fair: I earned a ban from the company facebook by telling him how bad he is at PR. So now I can't find out through facebook if there are new models. Thankfully there is email and the website.)

[@alexandergunther2304]

Still playing Mordheim occasionally :)

[@BlackJackLegacy]

Glad to hear it too!

[@Zikekiel]

Hell Dorado. Far as I know that is currently dead.

[@RottedMoonweasel]

Dead as a doornail I'm afraid. Loved that game though. I still have my books and a couple of crews, just in case.

[@ecs05norway64]

Alongside Wild West Exodus is Mythos, which I bought a couple of starter packs for but never got to play. Very interesting game with a few interesting gameplay concepts and lovely miniatures. And of course I can't forget Legend of the Five Rings: Clan War, AEG's attempt to break into the minis market. They had a wide range with gorgeous minis... but it's been OOP for nigh 20 years now. "Generic Samurai" are easy enough to find but they had a lot of very characterful, very unique and faction-thematic sculpts, and those are now lost to the mists of history. (If anyone knows what happened to the L5R sculpts and masters, I hope they're still out there....)

[@xxelaxela333]

I remember being in my local hobby shop as a poor teenager, asking people for 200-300 pt games of 40K. When a guy named Ray told me about a new and upcoming game called Warmachine, where the amount of money that gets you 200-300pts of warhammer basically gets you a standard size army. He gave me lich lord asphyxious and I bought a cryx starter box with my birthday money and it was the best birthday of my life. Warmachine, miniatures and all the history aside, is a much better GAME at the core than warhammer or almost any other mini game.

[@jonpalmer5251]

I'm in the Chicagoland area and Malifaux has a really strong con-presence here, good sized tournament turnouts at Adepticon and Gencon with solid booth size to boot. It's nice to see, even though i don't play it anymore and haven't for well over a year, they seem to be financially stable and moving forward. Surprisingly strong support in the Midwest in the States though.

[@renaatvanhee4122]

Legends of Signum showed promis as a succesor for the old Confrontation. Similar models and a card concept. But now, the company looks only interested in releasing overly complex minis with a simplified set of game rules as an afterthought. There is practically no promotion for the game (reviews, battle reports, ...) nor any attention on playstyles for their factions or models.

[@goffikgaming8636]

I really wanted to get into a game called MERCS by Fifth Angel Studios. I saw Beasts of War (now On Tabletop) do a themed week on it and I loved how the mechanics worked. You use the stat cards as a measuring ruler and also use them to make templates for weapon effects. I bought the rule book and two starter sets years ago and I could only get them from the US so postage to the UK was pricey. Since then, it has almost been like tumbleweed. Even now, I don't know of any stockists in the UK with the full range. Not even sure when the last updates on the game was, but I know they are in v2.5 and the mini range for each faction has doubled since I bought it, but like I said, no idea when it was last looked at by the company. Shame really. Looked to be a really fun game.

[@richardgalati1323]

Have to admit I have never heard of Godtear before.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

and theres my proof that companies need to communicate their games better.

[@flameknightdragon]

Warmachine is one of those games that i would say is near dead. Not only killing off all the old models but many factions are just gone in the narrative all together. while sure there are new factions none of them really fit the steampunk astatic the universe was known for. As well the fact that they are still not having a lot of LGS support since many stores are stuck with dead legacy stock they can't even sell as high discount.

[@Godkaian]

Steamforged and FFG dont get any love from me anymore. Killing off great games (Guildball, Netrunner, L5R) and just putting out games with big IPs behind them. So they clearly just care about making a quick buck. Not the comunity that helped them build up. Why? Because its easier to sell to the masses. I really don't like where PP is heading. They allways had tight and crunchy rulesets. But selling 3D printed models is a no go for me. And not for those prices. If they would sell the STL, I would gladly buy all of them. Right now, we dont have anything resembling Warmachine / Hordes on the STL market. Just copies of GW stuff. Right now, I'm playing in a smaller circle with close friends. We play Frostgrave or Kings of War. Just some easy nice games. Right now I got my hands on Xenos Rampant. I cant wait to try that out.

[@shaneannigans]

Same. FFG's Terrinoth/Mennara setting is what made me fall in love with board/tabletop games! (I own everything for Descent 2e, Runebound 3e, Legacy of Dragonholt, Battlelore 2e, Rune Age, Heroes of Terrinoth, the Genesys RPG+Realms of Terrinoth stuff, and tonnes of RuneWars Miniatures Games minis as well as a few of their novels based on the setting. But now it seems all they care about is Star Wars, Marvel, and Lord of the Rings. It's got to the point that I actually HATE Star Wars now-no, not because of the movies, but because I can't go anywhere without that bloody IP coming in and taking over.

[@ricjackson2841]

Who plays lord do the rings that GW makes? I consider that dead. Necromunda is another GW game that I don’t see played but I like the models.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I think theyre both examples of games you dont see so consider them dead but both have very passioanate players and hobbyists who play them regularly.

[@charleshill9546]

2 Dead games I loved - Warcanto, even the guys in Poland wondered if I and a mate were the only people playing it some 10 years ago. Also offer Rackham AT-43 I still have everything officially released, pity the company had issues and never grasped how to scale the actions up to bigger conflicts. Don't mention the Kick starter but Confrontation is a Zombie -- I'm sure it's played somewhere in a parallel universes. Godtear comes out occasionally. But down here in Ringwood Hampshire Warmaster has been the big thing over the last 3 or so months and we are now giving Battlefleet Gothic a try. Collectively we agreed to stop chasing the shiny and now playing affordable stuff that helps the club to grow. We found that if you shout about playing it weekly there's players wanting to come out and play.

[@TAVAAR7]

Great thing is, if you have the minis and gaming friends who do too you can still play whatever rule set you want (or mod them to make it better). For example for 40k 5th ed our game group decided a 4.5ed would fix the problems both had by the time the 5th ed Necron book came out. Same with Fantasy, 7th was solid so we'd play that because 8th turned into whoever got the first nuke spell off won. I'd swapped over to warmahordes shortly after that in the height that was mk2 before the theme list power creep and loved it. I saw that game going the way of GW not long before the announcement of Grimkin and then mk3 and I stopped, but mid Mk2 I'd still happily play with friends. And then theres always Battle Fleet Gothic thats fun and Battletech thats seeing a resurgence and potential golden age after nearly 40 years of still kicking. As long as people have a passion for particular games and the pieces are still around to play it (whether by the manufacturer or 3d printable) small groups and communities will keep it alive.

[@volkerp.2262]

AT-43 and Confrontation are dead games, because the producer went out of Business.

[@Flamethrower1942]

Dead games are not dead if your still playing them

[@BlackJackLegacy]

Exactly what I said in the video.

[@danelmore2783]

Still love Inquisitor, Shock force, Doctor Who Invasion Earth, Starguard, GWAR Rumble in Antarctica and many others

[@Nosh5]

Warcaster neo-mechanika is in a weird spot. Please support us lol

[@onelohan]

Seems like dead games are all we play. Wife and I got into Rage ccg, Confrontation by Rackham…currently playing Knight Models DC miniatures game..not dead but close to death.

[@kevinriddle3611]

Terminator Genisys had potential, Dreadball is such a great game

[@Mark-nh2hs]

Star Saga - love this game but I think is now dead. Hopefully a 2nd edition will arise. Thankfully I manage to get all the expansions. Many of the expansions are now no longer stocked or restocked.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

Yeah it’s very much treated like a board game these days. You can still pick up the main core box but it’s not supported beyond that.

[@Mark-nh2hs]

@@BlackJackLegacy yep. I was trying to get the Rebel expansion, was out of stock asked Mantic if they were going to have a re stock and was sadly told not for the foreseeable future (they were very polite and apologetic about it). Luckily I got it on eBay for a bargain lol had a happy ending. Yeah its more a board game but it was bloody good lol Dreadball love that game as well and to be honest (gasps and whiffs of Heresy) I prefer it over Blood Bowl. I find Blood Bowl very mean spirited game lol. You do well - punish you, you do bad we will punish you even further. Dreadball had the exploding 6s and made you feel good esp when you pull off an amazing feat. I have both versions of Blood Bowl the 90s edition and the new edition and yeah it's fun too play but get seriously frustrated with it lol

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

Godtear fans worrying about getting the axe doesn't surprise me. SFG launched it hoping to draw on the Guild Ball crowd, then took Guild Ball out back and blew it's brains out. When I say Guild Ball was 'Killed', I mean they had just had another tussle with the GB community about new rules (rejected mostly because the issue wasn't lack of rules, but SFG's lack of being able to get releases out to stock in shops), decided to end the game before getting all of the factions out (There were four minor teams a one round of individual figs away from having a third box set for each team), and didn't push it into the corner where "We're not going to touch it for a while" but went full on "It's dead, the last of it is on sale, when it's done or gone, it's gone". The corporate munchkin in me understands their "We are too busy with video game IPs and don't have time/resources to spend on older games", but he plays regularly with the collection-gamer munchkin in me, and both of them came to the conclusion Godtear would probably die abruptly too, so what was no point in getting excited about a limited time game.

[@flipadip2712]

Every game I've ever bought into is "dead' now (with the exception of MTG and 40k Killteam). They're still fun though.

[@cyberdaikaiju]

I got Godtear on the kickstarter... only ever got about 4 games in... I am, as far as I can tell, the only person who plays it here and only get games by pleading with people to build a list from my collection. its a shame because i think its a great game

[@snarkymcsnarkface1863]

I had a similar issue here. It's taken well over a year to get a decent group of people playing. I found the best adoption point was not wargamers but tabletop gamers. For war gamers I went with the it's a pallet cleanser for cons, aka a great drunk game or something you can onboard the spouse with approach. Getting them to at least give it a look.

[@RavenShinyThings]

dark age via cmon is dead game are us. big company, unique models and gone. there are companies that have been going for years that have games that are far from dead and yes they are scifi and fantasy not historical

[@Malinski66]

LOL. Stop only connecting with the 'game concept' of GW or their related stuff. Napoleonic battles have continued from the mid 1950s, you will find game players from their teens to actually dead. The older models are collectible. Models painted by early creators are collectible. I see stuff out now from manufacturers made of plastic in scales that are not popular (like the new 12.5mm) will appear and vanish (like Warmaster) and if you are really keen on it be patient (I got tons of warmaster for 90% off) - I suspect the 'epic scale' will be in discount sales by 2026 (one year after the 210th anniversary of Waterloo). With the masses of them becoming vacuum cleaner fodder. Napoleonic games are not going to be buried. Historical minis games will be the ones doing the burial of the flash-in-the-pan games and systems built by accountants to pay them.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I'm sorry to say but I don't talk about historical games as they dont interest me right now. Maybe they will in the future but thats not where my hobby is so I dont talk about the things I either know nothing about or dont interest me. You cant cover everything - theres just too much.

[@bignosebrett1521]

Love Godtear but steamforged games are crap at marketing

[@StevBerryessa]

My group and I were VERY into Guild Ball. It was far and away our favorite game and we played it all the time. I don't know what has happened to SFG over the last several years but they are not the company they used to be. I am sorry to say, but it is only a matter of time before they kill Godtear just like they did Guild Ball. They don't give a shit about anything but their kickstarters anymore, and that includes their customers.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I like the folks at SFG, I love Godtear as a game ... I just wish they had a bit more effort behind marketing and creating a community for it!

[@StevBerryessa]

@@BlackJackLegacy I liked them a lot too. Got to play a game of Guild Ball against Matt Hart a long time ago, but I'll always be bitter about how Guild Ball went down. They built a remarkable and competitive community around that game, then blamed us when they decided to kill it. I remember when they first started pitching Godtear and was very excited about it, but I sold my kickstarter the day it arrived at my door. Not about to get invested in another game by them. That said, and to the point of your video, we still have all our Guild Ball teams and still play it whenever we can. Fortunately the game was in phenomenal shape when they killed it.

[@Salty_Sassenach]

Looking forward to Dead Games 2 - The Return 😜 in 2024

[@NedRigNerd]

How is Blood Bowl dead. GW still sells and makes teams on their site. Because in reality it's dead to the people. Cause literally can't find anyone to play it.

[@mattl_]

I'd love to play Kings of War, but the US seems very sci-fi focused to begin with and then 40k tends to rule that for the most part. Other dead games for me would be Warmaster, Epic and Battlefleet Gothic.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

You find one person to play against and you have a game going though ;)

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

You have a pretty low bare for "dead" games. I mean, Godtear is still holding events worldwide and Warmachine assembled 50 5-man teams from 18 nations for the WTC just half a year ago - (compare that to MCP Nations, that nobody would call dead and yet they raised only 80 players from 6/7 different nations) and now that MkIV is properly launched, we're seeing people starting up events for it. Malifaux was "dead" almost everywhere except the US for a long time - it puttered along with a small but steady player base outside Yankeeland but it wasn't really available except as mail order from the US for a very long time. Guild Ball is more or less dead. WHFB is perhaps dead (but perhaps coming back). A host of non-main GW games are dead because that's their business model. I can see people being worried about Godtear considering Steamforged's track record, but a game is dead when the company stops supporting it and don't put out new models or rules for it AND people stop playing it. So Blood Bowl was never really dead - it had a score of fans even if GW just dropped it for a long time. That's my two cents.

[@BlackJackLegacy]

I actually said that Godtear wasn’t a dead game. I said it was a perceived dead game by some who never see it played and because Steamfirged hardly mention it these days. As for holding events worldwide for it - they’re few and far between and draw less than 8 people to them. I wouldn’t say that was thriving. I also disagree about Malifaux. It’s never been a game that has been mailorder from the US only in the U.K. and there’s always been an active tournament and event community - I know because I used to be part of it.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

@@BlackJackLegacy Perhaps the UK has had a hidden community mostly invisible outside the UK, but over the last decade I've almost never heard UK players mention it at events I have been to. It is a great game, especially in regards to the card mechanics (unfortunately I don't like their aesthetic choices, so I never bought in beyond a starter back in 2012) but it has only really showed up on the radar in the last few years that I have seen.

[@wolverine9049]

first

[@paytreonsuhks]

Exofront by Puppetswar is so dead the only info about it is 2 videos on youtube and 2 articles by spikeybits. Literally nothing anywhere else.