It's a Sports Corset! (plus a "corset shield") - examining our new study pieces

Let's learn about our newest extant study pieces!
First: An 1890s "Khiva" corselet designed for sport
Second: An "Oktis" corset shield, designed to reinforce worn corsets at the waist
Mentions: @virtuouscourtesan, @laracorsets, @laceembraceatelier @hellovintage
Images:
Khiva Corset, John Bright Collection
www.thejohnbrightcollection.c...
Tennis, Library of Congress
The New Woman and Her Bicycle, Library of Congress
Khiva Corset Chamber Pot, UK Auctioneers
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[@bernadettebanner]

oh my goodness this is fascinating to see one In Person, I've been reading about these all week! 🤩🤩

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Oooh, any insight on the flippy flappies?

[@cassievanbrunt7791]

@@RedthreadedCorsets nothing to back up my thought with, but when I saw the fold up "flappies", i immediately thought a hoop shirt might have buttoned there to decrease what was around the waist.

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

@@cassievanbrunt7791 That's a good thought--but this corset dates to about 30 years after the hoopskirt went out of fashion.

[@mond5004]

My suspicion is that the tabs secured the cords for hip and bum pads in place as these would still have been worn under sport petticoats and skirts of the late Victorian and early Edwardian periods. Because this corset style is already quite bulky at the waist, and it is so short (effectively ending at the top of the hip), the silhouette would still be maintained by securing the pads below the relatively high waist of the corset.

[@lauraoergel6003]

Agree, my thinking is the tabs would be for sport (low hip) crinolones or extra petticoats

[@GM-qq1wi]

That makes sense. I couldn't wrap my mind around it and thought maybe they could be used to hike up a skirt or something

[@ameliegonissen7154]

More info on the “Oktis”shield: The packaging says “doubles your corsets life time” “number 2, for corsets above 60cm” (above as in longer than) The shield itself say “Zaroïde supports, does not rust” (Zaroïde must have been the name given to the alloy they were using for the baleen to make it sound more fancy than it actually is, adds still use that strategy currently of using overly scientific names for common things to make them sound advanced, because I can’t find other mentions of it except for a corset being backed by an “oktis” shield in Paris) “Attach by sewing on the lines...... do not stop the extremities of the baleen” (the Paris shield mentioned above is a bit more specific here saying “Attachez cette bandelette marquée à l'intérieur du corset / Les extrémités des baleines doivent rester entièrement libres". Meaning “attach the marked strips inside the corset/ the extremities of the baleens need to stay fully free”, so you were not supposed to sew down the extremities, just the dotted lines, probably because it’s inside another layer of baleen and the ends of it need to be free to stretch in and out a bit when it’s bend one way or another. If you don’t understand what I mean, try putting 2 metallic rulers against each other, you’ll see the ends will slide a bit when you bend them)

[@cincocats320]

I hope you eventually add a pattern for the sports corset to your offerings. It is exactly what I want for everyday wear. And I love that it is short waisted. A great find!

[@SPAMCAN29]

The P and S is a corset making company. Underpinning museum has a lot of high def images of their advertisement material which I have waded through in the past

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Yep, someone shared the link and also a link to a great one at the V&A :)

[@stevezytveld6585]

Shout out to your awesome Mail Man/human picking up things in the snow. The snaps remind me of a very old over-stuffed-down-filled sleeping bag my parents had - whatever was attached to the corset must have had a substantial weight to need that many points of connection. Plus the side tabs appear to be there so the wearer could scooch in and pull the corset down into position. This is fascinating. Especially the replacement bone shields - our grandparents were smarter than we are. Thank you for sharing! All the very best of the season. And may 2021 be full of joy, laughter, dancing, socializing safely without masks and creativity. Take care. Stay safe. Thank you for the corset patterns... - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown

[@TheSameYellowToy]

I wonder if the Star of David is in the logo because it might be a Jewish-owned brand? I don't know about other countries, but I know in Germany and Austria, the vast majority (like at least 80-90%) of people in the garment industry pre-WW2 were Jewish. (For a very long time in those countries, there were anti-Semitic laws dictating what careers Jewish people were allowed to have, and the garment industry was one of the few fields they were legally allowed to go into.) There's a really interesting book about the Jewish garment industry in Germany/Austria pre-WW2 and the effects the Holocaust had on it, it's called "Broken Threads: The Destruction of the Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria".

[@silvergypsylady]

I had read about the Otis stay shields awhile ago. I hadn't really thought about "breaking a rib", as a stay before you mentioned it here. That makes sense. I always thought when I read that women would break ribs wearing corsets that they must be in very poor health. Quite a misconception. I'm becoming more educated on historical clothing thanks to you and other members in the community of historical clothing. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@TealCheetah]

Shoutout to that mail carrier for sure!

[@eleonore59830]

The corset shield writing reads to 'fix it by sewing on the marks'

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Excellent, thank you!

[@eleonore59830]

@@RedthreadedCorsets more like 'attach' than fix, sorry haha

[@mfg2324]

and below it sais: do not cut off the tips of the bones :)

[@kendy4425]

@@RedthreadedCorsets it said imported from england, dose not rust, fix by sewing on the lines, do not stop the ends of the baleins. I dont know about the Zairoïde but it would be how they called the material.

[@AE-ld9ck]

That sports corset is very interesting. I used to figure skate and I love looking at older images and film of skating around the early 1900s, so it’s fascinating to get an idea of what kind of garment would have been worn for sports like that. I wonder if a skirt or under layer could have been rigged in a way to make a sort of transitional skirt/bloomer, like adding a loop or small openings that could be secured to those flaps somehow? Like in case of the wearer falling or something, so they didn’t show anything underneath. 🤔

[@ShannonMakes]

Oh, I've just spent the last two weeks researching Sports Corsets (mostly the Good Sense Waist) in preparation for constructing one myself, and I just now found your video! Great video :-)

[@SPAMCAN29]

Also another thing I noted: the hight measures from waist to bust point and to side point are exactly those of modern professional tutu/ballet corsets. I heard you say the measurements and thought, that isn't short... Hopefully this blasted indefinite shut down of the theatre will soon be circumvented

[@chee3210]

The sports corset feels very comparable to an early bra....and it looks quite comfortable

[@ukehimesama]

I love these interesting corsets. If there was one corset I could magically procure it would be the margaine lacroix corsets. I think they where made from a silk jersey fabric, in one of the adverts the model is bending backwards.

[@melmelhodgepodge3800]

I know that the Symington Corset Company did have a lot of competitor's garments in their collections.

[@LydiaAshley]

Wow! This is awesome!

[@shonitagarcia3222]

Thank you for sharing. What unique treatures. Happy Holidays!

[@TheMaggieMia]

Abby Cox is so envious of your Worth Dress, and I am amazed by it!

[@BurnleyandTrowbridge]

This is truly fascinating! I am now obsessed with wanting to know what the button tabs are for!

[@stevemaddern3065]

Tabs may be to attach a special petticoat that would stay in place during activity and not shimmy down?

[@Sestra_Prior]

Yep, you got Leicester spot on :) Could the tabs have been to connect it to a panty-girdle type arrangement, thus allowing movement in the middle, but keeping everything else well compressed? Perhaps Cathy Hay might know :)

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Possibly, but the way they button to themselves is quite strange if it's meant to attach to something else.

[@Sestra_Prior]

@@RedthreadedCorsets perhaps the channel formed by the fastening could hold a loop of cord, or is it too narrow? (this is where I wish I could draw a picture here, because I am doing a rubbish job of explaining in words!)

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

You could definitely run a cord through it. It's so odd--and it's one of those things where if we could see the other piece, it would immediately make complete sense!

[@Sestra_Prior]

@@RedthreadedCorsets Best keep our fingers crossed then that someone sees this and has a eureka moment, then retrieves the missing bit from their attic!

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@Sestra_Prior Fingers crossed for happy interweb accidents...

[@eman4233]

I cannot thank you enough for helping me fulfill my thirst for this very specific hyperfixation 🥰

[@user-zl6vz3ej7x]

Please develop a pattern and put it up on your shop! Pretty please!

[@mfg2324]

4:10 snow!!! That is so interesting, thank you for sharing!! PS: I'm currently making my very first corset with one of your patterns and I'm very pleased with the fit (of the mockup by now) and the instructions :)

[@mfg2324]

PPS: great discussions in the comments so far!

[@a.k.v.3042]

I'm completely intrigued. Looking at the adverts for Khiva corselets, they talk about sporting, but also talk about how they are also good for invalids and nursing, as in nursing your baby, not caring for the ill or infirm. Maybe the tabs with the buttons hook into a separate shape wear girdle for post pregnancy?

[@janehollander1934]

Zairoide is indeed metal 👌🏻. The Victoria & Albert Museum in London has a whole discription posted on their website m.vam.ac.uk/collections/item/O293492/packaging-for-corset-william-pretty-son/ on the "Oktis". 👋🏻 from The Netherlands

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Fantastic! Thanks for the link!

[@janehollander1934]

Dear@@RedthreadedCorsets , you are very welcome. William Pretty senior (from Pretty & Son) was a strict Wesleyan Methodist - so that's probably where their ✡️ David Star, in their logo, comes from. Found an interesting article on an online local British Newspaper. Where their famous W&P Corset making imperium was ruled from 😊. www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/lecture-at-festival-of-fabric-in-felixstowe-2858624

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Aha! Great info!

[@nurmihusa7780]

@@janehollander1934 What a delightful story to read! Thank you!

[@janehollander1934]

@@nurmihusa7780, you are do very welcome. I loved it as well, and thought I'd share it with others who are interested in History - particularly on this very subject. ✌🏻😊

[@elizabethclaiborne6461]

Between the Outdoor Girl show coming and my own mid ‘90’s projects I’ve been looking for sport corsets, I knew they had to exist and have seen mention of them. Very glad to see this, the date is right and the style seems right. It’s so teeny I wonder if it’s a sales sample though. Isn’t it child sized?

[@lauraoergel6003]

my thinking is the tabs would be for sport (low hip) crinolones or extra petticoats

[@TheGabygael]

"The "Oktis" Shield imported from England Support made out of Zairoid that doesn't rust Set it by sewing on the dots, do not set the ends" i don't know what Zairoid is but i would guess some alloy made in Zaire and the sentences sound a bit odd to me and the writing of the word Suppors, unless the writing has changed in the last century or it was some corsetry slang, makes me think that the branding was done in England as well

[@user-xe7dj2gz7x]

Here's a comment for the algorithm :)

[@iraisrose]

Yeah 😎 to boosting the algorithm

[@Sestra_Prior]

It does occur to me that if this corset had another part intended to be used with it, then it would surely have been mentioned in the advertisements for same? Like you, I have done some internet research (which included the discovery that Portmeirion pottery used the advert on some of their china!), and I cannot see any of the adverts pictured include any indication of another part, which you would have thought they would had done...which I guess only adds to the mystery....

[@alibabafurball]

I think the tabs were used to attach something similar to this at Ryerson www.ryerson.ca/content/dam/fashionresearchcollection/PDFsAltText/The_Reversible_Player_Sports_Bustle.pdf

[@oldsof69]

I've been wondering about steel bones breaking for a while now, but every time it's mentioned it seems to kind of be glossed over, but I have so many questions. Like, is it painful? Is it super rare and only happens in daily wear of corsets? Is this why spiral steel boning is a thing? But mostly, IS IT PAINFUL?

[@curiouslywoven9737]

Could the non metal boning be feather boning? Seems to have been popular with the Ferris sports waists.

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Possibly! I’ll take another close look to see if there are any open spots in the stitching where I can sneak a peek at it.

[@mond5004]

Cane would be another possibility.

[@azadehsalehian7782]

Hi do you have any corset pattern drafting class?

[@KbatzReviews]

Are the tabs and buttons to hike up a petticoat for the activity? Gasp get that hem out of the way to free the legs for riding or cycling? Not like today's sassy steampunk ruffles but a polite, discreet fold up instead of a lady having to tuck her hem up in a waistband? 🤔

[@wa4920]

Health corset's www.sewhistorically.com/edwardian-health-corset-good-sense-corset-waist/ The one constructed in this post doesn't look like your's, but the historic references she uses may help with figuring out what all the components of yours may be for? There is some mention of wrinkling without boning being normal and expected. The wrinkling is said to be reduced by the "gentle pressure of the garters, which are fastened to the direct front and sides, just as they are to all corsets" (the different literary references she uses are unfamiliar to me, me being very very new to this. But I thought it might help?)

[@KissMyFrog42]

Would the patent documents have an explanation of the tabs and their function?

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Ohh probably! I haven't had a chance to find them myself yet. I need a research clone!

[@KissMyFrog42]

@@RedthreadedCorsets Don't we all!

[@misswazzra]

Is there a picture of Betty White on you Juki? I need to know!

[@RedthreadedCorsets]

Haha it's actually Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development!

[@misswazzra]

@@RedthreadedCorsets hahaha that’s even better

[@ReisigSeeds]

This is the most “bra-like” of any of the older corsets I’ve seen.