It Sucked: The End and The Death Vol 2 Summary, Spoilers, & Theories | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@mekolayn]

I just realized Rogal Dorn was trapped in a Khorn maize

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

OH MY GOD XD

[@mr.tajtas4259]

FUCK. KHORN MAIZE

[@undercovertakodachi4301]

goddamnit

[@captainteutonica5474]

Wow who knew Khorne could be so corny?

[@orrmenard1586]

Same thing I can’t stand about the cornrows

[@someguy4405]

It's basically a solid tome of padding. That one guy on Reddit said it best: "If there's a third book and the second volume is only the middle, that means it takes The Emperor an entire book to walk from one end of The Vengeful Spirit to the other."

[@johnsmith3085]

This is 100% accurate. 700 out of the 750 pages of this book is absolute filler. None of the sub-plots are moved forward. The main one is only moved at the end. It’s fitting that one of the big themes in this book is that time stops. That’s definitely how the book felt when none of the other characters’ stories go ANYWHERE.

[@moreplease998]

Technically they do give a reason for this in the time and space warping effects. Emps travels to the vengeful spirit and then goes everywhere across the warp for an indeterminate amount of time and even stops for a chat with Ollanius back on Terra. Dorn travels to the vengeful spirit and proceeds to spend several centuries trapped by himself in a desert. Meanwhile, Valdor gets to go through a very intense ~40 seconds of fighting in that same span of time. Only Sanguinius travels a distance roughly analogous to the length of a 40k spaceship and that doesn't end well for him. So kinda yea, but not really.

[@moreplease998]

​@@johnsmith3085The recanonisation of the Starchild lore was pretty big. The whole dark king arc was just the means of bringing that lore back

[@someguy4405]

@@moreplease998 Whether or not there is an in-universe explanation for the book being padded and drawn-out, it is still padded and drawn-out.

[@moreplease998]

@@someguy4405 Well, yea. It's GW. Milking stuff for all they can is totally what they'd be pushing the HH authors to do

[@nightlordnorris4446]

There are 3 things that are certain in 40k: Death, Imperial Tithes, and Eldrad Ulthran being absolutely wrong about everything he predicts or believes he has seen.

[@vitaliyred622]

He kinda proved multiple times that fate and future can be changed, it is not set in stone….but then idiotic writers contradict it over and over again.

[@nightlordnorris4446]

@@vitaliyred622 yeah I agree with you, and that's kind of the point where I am getting at. They make it seem like the Eldar are so arrogant and believe everything is set in stone, when they absolutely know it isn't. In contrast, they make the Emperor seem like he knows a hell of a lot more about prophecy and foresight than the Eldar, whose whole trope is "to see the strands of fate and manipulate them in their favor." Yet, every time they try to do this, they create the VERY thing they were trying to avoid (prime example being Angron) or realize all too-late that they were wrong (as shown here with their views about the fall of humanity and how it affects them). In short, the Eldar are written to be absolutely terrible at what they are perceived to be "good" at.

[@leandrocastello309]

​@@nightlordnorris4446but the whole point in sangy and kurze's life is that prophesies are a mess to make something useful for in the 40k galaxy,so altough they arent that good at it is still consistent with the rules.

[@sovietunion7643]

eldrad is such a good character that tries his best, its unfortunate that he happens to be in the faction that always is ignored or given anti-plot armor, where the plot has them lose too often.

[@nightlordnorris4446]

​​​​​@@sovietunion7643I agree, I actually like the Eldar and what they could potentially bring to the setting, but as the person above had first commented, and also like you are saying, the writing often really trashes on them or does them wrong in so many ways. Really sucks too, because they have a very rich and fascinating history. Eldrad is a unique character to the setting, I do agree with you there. Make no mistake, I am by no means trashing on the Eldar, it's just been this ongoing thing where they make Eldrad go "I can see the future, we must do this!" and then it's just [insert terrible consequence here]. Or that they portray the Eldar in such a way, that they are kinda insufferable, or pompous, or something along those lines. However I think theres a lot of potential there that they simply aren't capitalizing on, at all.

[@ThuglasElBosso]

I think Sanguinus' last thoughts could be a cool excerpt to open the 3rd book on, only to be revealed to be from a raving Blood Angel's perspective as he starts massacring everyone around him.

[@yaelz6043]

That's actually outright brilliant.

[@borponoida9161]

@@yaelz6043 Which is why gw won't do it.

[@yaelz6043]

@@borponoida9161 yep, sounds about right.

[@IVIaskerade]

The last thing to go through Sanguinius' mind before he died was Worldbreaker.

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​@@IVIaskerade too soon man too soon

[@zeppelincraft1443]

I like the Dark Eldar out of all the other Eldar was actually listening to the whole conversation and when all the bickering ceases does the most logical thing, "Why don't we just ask the Harlequin in person?",

[@giacomoromano8842]

Aren't Harlequin considered kind of weirdos by the eldari at large or at least untrustworthy outside of serioues matters? I didn't thought it weird that they were too fixated on the matter at hand and maybe kind of scared by the harlequins at large to go and ask a "silly" question. Also, they are eldar, off course they would assume to know what they are looking at.

[@lachlanevans5013]

Honestly the Dark Eldar are probably the only Eldar that GW can do right in my opinion.

[@TheAmberKing]

Just a small note for the Sanguinius death. I think most of the character development for the Horus fight was done in the book 'HH: Runistorm'. This mostly tackles his turmoil and acceptance of his death, plus a chance for hope which is ultimately fails in this book. Really important context before reading 'The End and The Death'.

[@NancyDLaw]

The King is here... ❤❤❤❤

[@criticalcommenter]

Sanguinius getting just destroyed was great. One of the highlights for me. I thought he'd put up a fight

[@craigsinclair171]

@@criticalcommenterWhat? Not my reading, Sanguinius beat Horus for most of the fight and almost killed him. It was only when Horus called on his allies that he won.

[@criticalcommenter]

@@craigsinclair171 i think you need to look again. The whole point of the entire fight was how incredibly overpowered sang was

[@popamonkey190]

KING!

[@Le-cp9tr]

So it followed the Horus Hersey tradition of having a solid first act (part 1), and bad second act (part 2) and will likely have a middling third act. All is right with the world.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Balance in all things 🙏

[@Le-cp9tr]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary As all things should be

[@AAhmou]

Ever since the very beginning, like poetry, it rhymes.

[@Archon3960]

Maybe Dan Abnett will yet again mindblow us? Who knows? :)

[@AliceBowie]

​@@Archon3960Dan Abnett can write really great stuff. He's probably the best BL author. But he's also really good at writing by quantity to fill quotas. He probably met with the BL creative team, who told him what had to happen in the final books of the HH series, and then the people who run the business side told him to make it happen over 3 massive books.

[@TheShatteredLegion]

Personally I loved how the handled the H vs S fight. It made Horus feel truly Powerful. He literally attacks him through 4D Plane

[@randomcenturion7264]

Horus has become something out of a nightmare given his new powers

[@Knights_Oath]

The last part was written in the second person, which implies that Horus was being controlled by Chaos when he killed Sanguinius. Which would make sense as Hours was not going to win that fight, as he was holding back from killing the brother he loved the most before his fall.

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@Knights_Oath It says a lot of how much he loved Sanguinius that the MOMENT he gets snapped out of his trance, he begs the Emperor, not just to kill him, but erase his soul.

[@Knights_Oath]

@randomcenturion7264 Exactly, if Horus had his way Sanguinius would have been Warmaster.

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@Knights_Oath It says a lot that, before the Chaos Koolaid utterly took him over, he wished Sanguinius was Warmaster.

[@cherrypopscile3385]

A Catholic servator, beating Erabus over the head with a metal box. That's amazing. Stupid, but amazing

[@kingofsicily]

I assumed it was the in world explanation of why Chaos lords would forever fear (even 10000 years later) the Imperium's metal boxes ;)

[@N0TYALC]

I laughed out loud imagining that scene when I read it.

[@thebluepaladin]

i love the fact that gooddeeds are supposed to be completly pure deeds like feeding the homeless, and this servitor is using that term to describe bashing erebus head with a crate, best part is hes right

[@timdillon4876]

THE FOOLS

[@lord_horrick]

"I'M DOING GOOD DEEDS, TROOPER PEARSON" - Gigachad Crank

[@MadisonRamanamabangbang]

"I was merely pretending to be retarded" - Horus, Warmaster

[@Joseph-mw2rl]

😂💀

[@casketbase7750]

1:19:40 A nice payoff to this is that Manus's skull is with the Iron Hands as of the current lore. It's on a memorial shrine on Medusa, where the Helfathers take shifts guarding it.

[@oliveragag8576]

"If light's so fast, how did the dark get there first?" -Horus

[@Homie_Wan_Kenobi]

The fact that Horus DOESN'T treat the murder and death of his favorite brother as anything more than killing a disobedient dog, I think, adds to the sadness and impact of Sanguinius' death. Horus doesn't even respect his most loved brother enough to kill him with honor, instead, like an animal beneath his contempt. This to me shows how truly far gone Horus is in redeeming himself on a personal level.

[@justwannabehappy6735]

... He's the Warmaster of Chaos. OFC he can't be redeemed. He's the Arch-Traitor. Had they made him otherwise, it would have been some serious BS

[@taipaleenmakips]

@@justwannabehappy6735 but the bittersweet thing would be a slim chance of redemption. I, for one, maintain this was 99% Erebus's fault.

[@TheArtis4n]

That KIND of applies to him asking The Emperor for forgiveness and subsequently.... To be erased. He saw reason in his final moment, and decided it was better to let go. ​@@taipaleenmakips

[@alejosuarez7584]

When BL announced that tEatD was going to be 3 volumes instead of 2 I knew this book was going to have a lot of padding. Which I think the book suffers from well written padding, It's good, but it isn't what is important for the macro of the story. But yeah, 2 volumes was good to end the story, and they could've released a short story collection to end the story of minor characters.

[@DavidCendana]

The situation where the palace and world's geometry being jumbled is unintentionally -or god help me, intentionally- hilarious. I was expecting 'oh shit! demons in the palace!' type of stuffs. You know something horrific. There is that but very minor. Instead we get this scooby-doo chase scene where everyone's running around, goes through one door and pops up through another. There are many scenes that made me chuckle. The part where a custodian got confused and asked wether he's lost and he answered no. The empty prison doors start knocking only when closed and the commander ordered 'then open them all!'. Traitor astartes teleports behind you. When I think 40k comedy I think Trazyn and Ciaphas Cain not the final part of Horus Heresy.

[@wephilips6651]

I cannot believe how many pages and scenes were dedicated to ‘character x realizes that geography is not how it should be’

[@akumaking1]

The only part that seems remotely good is Rogal Dorn going TTS and boring Chaos to death.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

That and the Eldar part imo

[@akumaking1]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary speaking of TTS, will you ever do a review of the series? Here’s another idea: join LoreCrimes to a in-depth dive on the Harlequins and/or Alpha Legion. I’m sure the guys would appreciate it.

[@Fivespark144]

Im starting to think that the reason GW cease and desist TTS was because it was going to have a better ending, even as a parody

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@Fivespark144yeah starchild is kinda the proof. Its beat for beat TTS plotline 😅

[@rickm9244]

The older lore before all these books. Was that horus had won the battle. But if those reinforcements made it. He was going to lose the war. So he had to somehow kill the emperor. That's the only story that needed to be told. As he would have to fight the emperor one on one. His own father. It wasn't clear as to way the emperor went up to his ship. I think the lore before all these books was better tbh. Simple with so much room to move around.

[@Subject_Keter]

I personally dont like the new lore for HH as it feels restricted and "you cant do nothing itis", like Angron fighting Russ, Russ should of backhanded Angron to the ground instead of the draw they ended up having, cut the chaff that isnt important to thr story and the Dark King stuff flying in at the end? Wtf?

[@giacomoromano8842]

​@@Subject_Keterwhy? Russ and Angron are extremely capable fighters and the draw made sense in a almost "joke" because no one is sure at all who won it but all made assumptions, i think it come ups in the book where Angron ascends, i don't remember the name, i believe it to be the Betrayer.

[@wephilips6651]

As someone who was first introduced to this in 1993 and enjoy a lot of the new lore I am absolutely gutted and frustrated just how many pages in the galaxy spanning civil war of Demi gods and billions of soldiers was dedicated to bloody ol Pearson and John gramaticus Really made the whole thing seem far too small and personal and also boring

[@Thyinternet]

43:40 Just occurred to me as you’re going through this, another interesting Dorn / Perturabo parallel - both of them, ultimately, are positioned to fight as they don’t wish to. We see earlier Perturabo packing up his toys and leaving, not wishing to involve himself in the “unconventional” methods of his brethren, and we see Dorn tempted to cut loose as a berserker.

[@ChaoticVoicesofAndreas]

Imma tell you this: The moment between Horus and Sanguinius slapped.

[@Lusus-zj9pt]

Good to see ya here :D

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

The moment I got this thing, the first thing that struck me was the formatting. The text is fairly large to begin with, there's there's hideous gaping spaces between each line and huge blank margins on every page. Meaning the book if far larger, more cumbersome, less comfortable to read, and wasteful than it needs to be. Combine that with just how many chapter breaks there are, and I seriously think that at least a quarter of this hardback by volume is just empty paper -- very likely up to a third in stark contrast to the far more sensible formatting I've seen from other Black Library books, such as _Path of The Eldar._ On the plus side, there are some gorgeous illustrations included that I wasn't expecting, but other than that it's as if this book was formatted for people who don't read despite the fact that Abnett is clearly not an author for people who don't read.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah I’ve seen pictures of the printed book and it looks like a TOME, I listened on audiobook but STILL

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary I'm okay with tomes, just not tomes that are half empty. If it doesn't need to be a doorstop, don't make it into one for no reason. It's pretentious. Like that scene where Lord Farquaad rides up in full plate armor and then a guy lifts him out of the saddle and his toes don't even reach past the greaves. _Path of The Eldar_ is about the same size as _The End and The Death volume 1,_ but that's an anthology with _three_ books in it, not one.

[@Donjonneau]

@MilkTankz Username check out

[@Empiriarch1945]

Interesting note, Markiplier when joined the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast, he kind of wanted to make the Horus v Sanguinius fight anti climactic, where Sanguinius gets beaten to death. Guess he got his wish

[@lord_horrick]

What episode was this? I must have missed it

[@Empiriarch1945]

@@lord_horrick kzbin.info/www/bejne/poTHqGWKhLqgrKcsi=934u-twPPfsb4LrA

[@GambeTama]

Slight correction, but the show that Mark cameo'd on was Adeptus Podcastus. Sadly, I don't think the guy ever came on AdRic as a guest.

[@Empiriarch1945]

yea whoops you're right. Its Adeptus Podcastus@@GambeTama

[@minoruiruma414]

I do sorta like how they bounce around to different parts of the siege to sell the 'hopelessness' of it. Different small last stands and such while showing off how desperate it was. However due to how Warp Flooded Terra is the whole WAY they tell it is annoying. They keep cutting to random parts of the Siege rather than following one small part of it and telling their arc they just snap-cut everywhere and randomly and it is frustrating. But I do sorta see what they are trying. They are trying to SHOW off how certain people deal with Reality colapsing. How Amit and others end up barking and stressed, how mortals do it. But GOD it was annoying to read in the 'flow' of it.

[@anthraxcrab2222]

I forgot about it but bro, but that loading servitor beating the shit out of Erebus was the best moment ever

[@VallornDeathblade]

"I AM DOING GOOD WORKS!" Yes, yes you are servitor buddy.

[@Geyser39]

Wait, Typhus finally put down his margarita and got off his loungechair long enough to finally fight the Dark Angels at the Astronomicon?!

[@Thyinternet]

I think that maybe been the sort of meta point, that Sanguinius’ death was insultingly ignoble and vulgar as an inverse to how grand and noble the character is portrayed to be. That said, I think his conversation with Ferrus and the portrayal of the scope of Horus’ power in the fight itself was well handled. It was a bit of a misdirect on Abnett’s part, that it was all about the buildup to the fight and the preparation for death - rather than the fight and the death itself which we all, Sang included, saw coming.

[@andresperedo1275]

I think that part was actually good. But it is just a retcon of Fingolfin vs Morgoth

[@Dan-bq1dz]

Random screw-up Imperial Army Officer has a tighter moment in a throwaway paragraph than multiple primarchs in this book: common guard W

[@Cornerboy73]

Sanguinius described as being akin to a golden mote of light, zipping around like a hummingbird when fighting Horus made me think of Tinkerbell. I couldn't get the damn image out of my head ! Of course, once Horus decided to stop messing around and annihilated Sanguinius with laughable ease, the whole Tinkerbell thing seemed suddenly apt. These End and the Death books are not my favorite of the series; they are too long and padded out, making for what feels like a bloated nothing burger at times. There are highlights, yes, but nothing I've read needed to be stretched out among 3 huge books. The only thing I liked in part 2 was that for once, Horus FINALLY felt like the threat he always was hyped to be. Knowing that we're not going into an even fight here with the Emperor should make for an interesting encounter.

[@lord_horrick]

I had equated it to Alucard vs Dracula in Castlevania. Like he seemed to be kicking some ass, then he got caught

[@Knights_Oath]

It was written in the second person like Hours was observing his actions and he was losing before that point. It implies that Chaos took control of Horus to get him to stop holding back and kill Sanguinius his most beloved brother. If they keep Horus weeping right before he dies after the hold of Chaos was fully broken, the tears may very will be for mortally wounding the Emperor and killing Sanguinius.

[@vontheunknown7982]

I wonder how they're going to bring in the Black rage turning the Blood Angels into mad berserkers?

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

It’s kinda set up so I think it’ll be good!

[@dollarsignmexican]

One of them stubbed his toe and it made him so angry that the black rage happened. So he said: "It's black raging time" and black raged all over those guys.

[@ThatFreeWilliam]

I was a big fan of the whole "The big deal was having to kill Sanguinius" theory because WTF would the Emperor have to "give up his goodness" to kill Horus at this point? That's just nonsensical.

[@_NutcasE_]

​@@ThatFreeWilliam thats fucking retarded. Ruining both Horuses and Sanginuses stories for cheap shock value. Hollywood dicksuckers wouöd love you.

[@jonasribeiro2001]

The theory that Sanginius kills Horus was so much better. He triggers black rage againt Horus ( hence why all his sons see themselves fighting horus when they fall to it) then an griefstricken emperor having to put down sanginius. Such a shame they didnt go for that, the ending remains the same, emperor wounded, horus and sangy dead@@ThatFreeWilliam

[@Mr.Praetor]

Glad I am not the only one. Really feels Iike there was a mandate to make these books longer. So many subplots that go nowhere or tread ground we have already gone over. Far too few conclusions, leaving many arcs simply hanging in the breeze. The Dark King was not a surprise, and its execution leaves me wondering what it accomplished for the story at all. The Sanguinius fight was pretty lackluster and is missing a lot of the key elements people are looking for in that kind of climatic fight. I was left with a sinking feeling after this book that I had basically read filler. Maybe 3-4 chapters of the actual plot moving forward. Maybe introducing new story beats on the second to last book is not a good idea? At this point we have so many plot beats and so little narrative time left to work with I don't see how any of them get resolved meaningfully.

[@tjoverton7581]

I think the issue is they had to cover a lot of ground and characters which makes sense considering the scope of the war and final battle. So there was always going to characters and storylines some people cared for more then others Like to me I got exactly what I wanted from Horus vs the great angel. Some epic clash between two somewhat equal fighters was never going to be the case. It was always going to be a beat down. But that’s not to say people who wanted something different are “wrong” either. Us fans are kinda like the inquisition. We all are 40k fans but what we want from different storylines characters etc can vary significantly from fan to fan

[@ashtonmartin3398]

the Sanguinius fight was perfect, you really wanted it to be more but the realitywas Horrus was so powerful that while you didn't want it to end that way, it did. How else will the fight with Emperor seem even remotely a contest. Horrus had to wipe the floor with Sanguinius.

[@thenerfkid9228]

we still do have the scouring, so that's gonna help mop things up i suppose.

[@guyman9655]

I'm a firm believer that the Heresy is just too bloated for the sake of money, 63 books in total is absolutely disgusting. I feel like the heresy could have been 10-12 books, there doesn't need to be so much minutiae. We don't need the lead up to, 5 books about, and the aftermath of a single battle, that's too much

[@MasterShake9000]

If you do the math, each limited edition earns GW roughly $2 million US. So splitting the final book into 3 volumes tripled that to $6 million, not counting hardback, paperback, and audiobook sales on top of that.

[@BaronElBardo]

Vulkan confronts the trolley problem: The book.

[@UNYEILDING]

The short chapter formatting did take getting used to but I thought it helped sell the fact that all of Terra is trapped in a single unending instant and spacial relationships don't matter. It is such a mindless blood bath that it doesn't make sense to anyone, the reader included. I did find it very funny that it took nearly becoming a god for Big E to get over his ego and see he had a pretty shit plan. Tons of people had warned him about bulldozing through complex problems and ignoring human nature would lead to this moment. Ollanius was just in the right time and place to be the stray that broke the camel's back.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

There's another good point - how will the Blood Angels be affected by the Black Rage if Sanguinius does not let out some kind of psychic scream / signal that imprints on their souls? Horus's slaying of Sanguinius was a gang stomp back alley bludgeoning and there seems to be no effect from it - at least so far in the writing...

[@gtr5973]

Dorn lecturing Khorne on the philosophy and history of war was great

[@InquisitorThomas]

All I’m saying is that this book would be infinitely improved if every so often the point of view character just occasionally ran across Trazyn skulking through the battlefields capturing traitors and loyalist forces.

[@Channel-23s]

1:31:17 I think you forgot Gullimen died right before he was resurrected by Yurivane even Calgar heard saw the last breath by his father and there was no big flash or explosion at all

[@gr8m887]

Vulkan and the Salamanders are my favorite characters in all of 40K because of their compassion and care for humanity. But the one thing that has always disturbed me the most about the Imperium is the 1000 sacrificial psykers given to the Golden Throne every day. The fact that Vulkan was the first to enact this protocol is beyond heartbreaking.

[@tomfrommicromanagement]

I'm very glad you brought up the similarities between Garro and Jaghatai's fights with Mortarion; it always seemed weird to me how similar they were. Also, I swear to go, if there is a line in the next book of Sanguinius crucified or pinned, I'll lose it. (It would be sick, but also as a blood Angel, I'll cry)

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

It would be like a stake through the heart *rimshot

[@catspyjamas8005]

Well the fight ends with him being nailed / hung up on the walls by demonic entities.

[@torresstormer9136]

The final thoughts of Sanguinius should have been “Sh*t… I forgot about Manus’s skull”

[@vagrant2863]

If they want to go for something neat, they should begin The End and The Death vol 3 with Sanguinius' thoughts. It would work perfectly as a recap.

[@v10l3t40]

My favorite part of this book and I'll defend it till I die is the battle between Erebus and the Argonauts. He uses enuncia, something Dan first introduced in the Eisenhorn series, then continued it in Know No Fear and now brought it in in this book, it's my favorite part of his writing, he always intertwines the lore he's created within this universe

[@Pickle6432]

I'll be the one to say it GW ultimately refused to go with the "Sanguinius kills Horus" twist because the theory got too popular and at this point it wouldn't actually have been that big of a twist

[@leichtmeister]

It was also a horribly stupid idea from the community.

[@ThexVaultxTech]

I thought a lot about this book,and more since you posted this. The fact that Ferrus Mannus is the most interesting character and part in this book says a lot about the book

[@shurno1588]

I personally really like this book , but your opinion is perfectly understandable. I definitly agree that it is too filled with unimportant details and could have been way shorter , but honestly , i really liked it.

[@TheAmberKing]

Great summary brother, thank you for this!

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

I feel sanguineous having no final words fits far better. It makes his death far more brutal and shocking.

[@Artemisarrowzz]

my biggest surprise is that Big E had mercy to start with

[@Dr.LightMarker5613]

When you said Ferrus appeared as a ghost i pictured him phasing in with the Mario 64 teleport sound effect, and just floating there with a little ghostly tail and all. "Sup bro" "Damn! Are you a ghost!?" "......what gave it away?"

[@derphen9759]

Wasn't Sanguinius' soul trapped on the vengeful spirt, maybe that's why there wasn't a flash of light and a gust of wind?

[@unofonseca2862]

Looks like Primarchs have to be highlandered to truly die....

[@decent2613]

​@@unofonseca2862 "there can only be ONE" ~ Horus Kurgen

[@theashen2019]

Could it be that since the soul of Sanguineus doesn’t show any visible signs of light or wind happening. Could that be because it’s not gone into the warp? It’s trapped inside the Vengeful spirit. Then again that’s just a spitfire of an idea. I’m also not sure if this effect could occur if someone had a split soul.

[@sovietunion7643]

that's unlikely to be the case considering how many implications of sangy's soul hanging around the blood angels occur in modern lore.

[@levyburns4163]

There's a reflection of Sangunius' found haunting the Vengeful Spirit in the book "Talon of Horus." It's possible.

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​@@sovietunion7643the Sanginour isnt Sanguinius and what talked to Mephiston and Dante is ambiguous if it's really him or not

[@tylerholmes2727]

I'm still looking forward to your end of the death volume three whenever that happens The first two reviews were fantastic.

[@Squidcookin]

I think it would have been interesting to have the fight start or half way into the fight have sanguinius fall to the black rage and pull himself back out of it. We would get to see him hold his own for a sec and maybe give horus a small struggle only to then have him pull himself back to his nobel self. Doesnt have to go exactly like that but it would have been cool to see even for a second the nobel angel fall and rise again before his end

[@CloudParadox-is1jc]

like a final wind.. snap put and lose it enough I take horus to pound town by mentally fight his way through it and end up dying

[@SaboKitteh]

I thought it was alright. Sanguinius's death was pretty brutal, but i agree that i would have been great to have his thoughts through the fight. It was a massive missed opportunity and i was looking forward to it.

[@avpfreak1911]

1:26:25: It's so much worst than that, sanginus and the blood angles have always been defined by this moment. Abnett not wanting to give in to tropes is one thing but this was one of if not THE greatest fights in the setting, the last stand of all last stands, the hail Mary of hail Mary's. By 'subverting expectations' he by not giving sanginus his final moment he undermined everything he and the blood angels stood for. Instead of the sacrifice that save the imperium he contributed nothing and died like a coward, this is one of the worst character assassinations of all time and a defilement of one of the greatest moments in all of sci-fi. It feels like a crime.

[@SirKanti1]

I think that Ollanius Pius sacrificing himself to save Big E has passed. Olly Piers in IMO has taken that spot, and it's more interesting when you take into consideration the propaganda that the Imperium will use after the HH. Ollaniius could easily tie the strings and then go back again but it feels like It's for the sake of it at that point, for an off handed line in a codex. Considering that the fight between Big E and Horus has already been written about in the Audio drama Warmaster by John French and it's a terminator not a guardsman or Ollanius, I think the fans are just memeing for something to happen at this point.

[@BeggarsNight]

Pretty safe to say that all previous lore regarding the encounter between Horus and the Emperor is no longer canon at this point. Even the story that has been the standard lore all this time is also just the in-universe myth of what happened 10k years earlier, which obviously wouldn’t be accurate.

[@williamsova9313]

I'm personally betting john, ollaniius, the proto primarch and others are going to die and the story is going to get warped into the various interpretations we see

[@skywatcheradept]

Ollanius Person sacrificed himself to save Big E in The End and the Death vol. 3

[@SirKanti1]

@@skywatcheradept thanks for posting spoilers prick.

[@SirKanti1]

@@skywatcheradept Spoilers

[@guineapigsith699]

I usually like to save longer form videos for when I'm working out or painting or whatever, but your style is just so easy going and conversational it's like listening to a 1.5hr valrak rant, so I've watched it all this morning on my breaks and before my shift. So ta, it's been a fun morning.

[@anthraxcrab2222]

Pt 3 when?

[@nightsider01]

I felt cheated by Garro's death. I knew it would happen eventually but this was not what I was hoping for. It just feels dumb, especially with how it was almost a repeat of how Mortarion was defeated in Warhawk.

[@captainteutonica5474]

Blood? ... Blood. ... Blood for the... Blood, for the Emperor! Skulls for the Golden Throne!

[@muurloen]

Your Malcador voice cracks me up.

[@conormosedale2710]

I didn't feel like there was much that was 'bad' about the book but it did frustrate me somewhat. All the little beats were put together perfectly fine, and most of them were at least somewhat interesting, but it just wasn't what i really wanted at this point in the story. Having said that, i really liked Volume I and (most of) the rest of the siege, so if Abnett can stick the landing on volume III i'd consider it a good trilogy - fingers crossed!

[@Imsleepeebruh]

it's been a few weeks since i watched a 40k vid but these ones where you go into the lore really heavy are some of my personaly favs

[@LoFi_Sinner95]

So the Emperor's golden shower healed everyone but Sanguinius!? A fully healed rejuvenated Sanguinius still getting skull dragged by Horus would've had more weight imo towards realizing how juiced up he is. I actually liked the "...the speed of darkness " quote 😅

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

That would have been good he gets fully healed than gets bonked anyway with no problem it would've hyped up horus why more

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

if i was in charge i could fix the section of the many minor characters on terra. those 5 or 10 minute guard or space marine chapters should have been used in an anthology as a vol 2.5/companion and we see the side battles happening on terra.

[@ariktaranis8855]

Valdor probably wishing he had some thunder warriors handy to push back against the chaos forces, ironic.

[@kaleb2643]

Dorn defeating Khorne with the power of autism

[@thebraveguy9808]

Question: will there ever be a video for the review of Volume 3? I know you're super busy right now, and everything, so I get it. I just thought I'd ask.

[@charlesballiet7074]

1:28:00 you forget that sanguinius had one of the more powerfull gifts of foresight and had already seen his death decades before indeed he even knew it was going to be at horus's hand before anyone els even mentioned being a traitor. So one could say that he already had his grief, his shock, his sorrow. In fact it is talked about that he and Nighthaunter both saw their own deaths but what broke ones mind drove the other to grim resolve.

[@viorp5267]

23:00 Ironically Horus's story is a weird Mix of Hitler's rise to power and the story of Lucifer. Lucifer was the most beloved Angel of God but he considered humanity imperfect and undeserving of God's love so he betrayed him. And then Archangel Michael beat the living shit out of him. Sanguinius is pretty clearly a refference to Archangel Michael except in the Horus Heresy he looses. Also here i more mean the old lore heresy which was like a few lines of text. Not the new expansive stuff

[@ohamatchhams]

Then what are 4 chaos gods supposed to be? are each chaos gods representing each letter of YHWH then? Or perhaps the potentiality of Malice, Vashtorr and The Dark King in the timeless warp to represents 7 chaos gods instead of just 4?

[@viorp5267]

@@ohamatchhams I think the 4chaos gods as a conzept were just imported stright from Fantasy where the mythology is more a divide between just a good and an evil pantheon. I think originally Chaos also wasn't pure evil. it was more Empire = extreme order/religiosity totalitarianism and Chaos extreme freedom/progressivism. Factions in the Empire, satirize nobility, christianity/catholicism and tradition. Slaanesh paroedies sex deviants, rockers and the ewmeging LGBT movementy. Nurgle parodies hippies and climate activists. Combining their usually laid back pasive nature from drug use and nature shit Tzeench are the academics on a march through the institutions. Khorne on the other hand is completely unrelated and I think they just wanted to put in cool death metal looking vikings.

[@ItsBertie98]

One thing that really stood out to me was the amazing tchapter transitions. The transition from abaddon to ahriman was great!

[@tonitapola7811]

I just found this channel yesterday, and I like it. I am one who always needs to have something playing on the background, even when I sleep, and Warhammer lore is perfect for it. I also like long form videos. But the problem with this is that once playlist of Weshammer or Luetin runs over and starts to autoplay something, I often wake up to a bad voice, have to get up and get a new playlist running. What I am trying to say that I like your voice, and once I have consumed all your videos you are definitely going to my sleeping list.

[@thebluepaladin]

your where talking about how people in 40k forgot horus was the emperors son and saw him as a Lucifer figure ironically forgeting that lucificer was gods favorite angel and then betrayed god. so does that mean lucifer is now seen as a horus figure?

[@slevinlaine]

8:10 yeah the Narek story line I loved it, HOPE that they continue it. 11:23 I've to agree with that. I gotta say that I get your point with Samus, but I quite like it :p.

[@mutatorbeam8368]

Doesn't sound too bad, all things considered. I do like the sound of of Ferrus Manus (sort of) coming back with what he has to say, though it's hard not to imagine him looking like his ghost from TTS!

[@squidman2758]

Ok I didn't want to reveal this to anyone, but I talked to Dan Abnett about part 2 and there was actually a big reveal that he had to cut out. *massive spoiler warning* So Sanguinius did have a some last words before he died. You see before he had begun drowning in his blood he would have uttered the words "Hydra Dominatus", before it is revealed that the dying angel was wearing a wig, which then falls off revealing to the reader that it was Alpharius all along. This, is a lie.

[@LegoM12]

Honestly I really liked the book, though I didn’t liked how some chapters were boring and unimportant, like the one of the lady at the jail thing with the doors. It’s not as if we didn’t know that this book wouldn’t have problems, like this is literally the last act of Sanguinius, it wasn’t going to be enough for an entire book on its own. Though I agree that they could have showed his thoughts WAY more in this book. At least one third of it should have been just Sanguinius reminiscing about Horus and everything that has happened in the heresy. On that point I gotta say that I was actually surprised by how much lore and good moments were written into this book, stuff like Vulkan screaming at the chosen and the custodes was pretty good, and Abaddon being like “there’s screaming coming from the walls and now they give us books? Smh” was fun to read. Not even starting on the star child and the city of dust reveals. I also liked how the emperor was stopped from becoming the dark king in a very human way, because when you think about it how is this attempt any less better than any other if it’s the emperor you are speaking to. If the smartest eldar in the galaxy or Guilliman tried to convince him I think it would be the same conversation, and the fact that it is such a regular conversation for such an important moment kinda makes it better for me in a way. It’s just sad that some bad decisions were made on how to approach this book, though I’ll still enjoy it in the future. Tho if the next book is mad dookie imma just riot.

[@johnn4134]

I think ghost Sanguinius is in the next book with a bunch of other warp ghosts emperor kids too it's the only way Ferrus' chat with Sanguinius makes sense with all the setup and no real payoff

[@gunsrlove]

Really liked the book overall. Had a bunch of filler(which may lead somewhere, I hope?) but good overall. - Sanguinius was used relatively sparingly because we all know what happens. The fight itself was fine - Sangy was shown to be far above his brother primarchs, even when injured, but ultimately cannot win. It even gets drawn out a lot longer than I thought it would. - Sanguinius goes to his death, knowingly . For a brief moment, he gets a glimpse of hope, that maybe, because time has stopped and he is outpacing Horus, he can somehow win. But it's that little spark of hope before he gets crushed that makes the whole thing more impactful. - The Dark King prophecy isn't teased much at all, outside of The End and The Death, but the Emperor being a god has been teased for about 30 or 40 years. This just adds context and while still vague for M42 Emps, it frames things far more clearly. Also throughout the book, it is mentioned how the Emperor is growing more powerful, while shining like a giant star, visible to a bunch of characters, growing brighter. - I maintain the idea that Horus(being able to revive the dead now) might somehow use a zombiefied Sanguinius against the Emperor. Just guesswork. - The clarifying book that we might get won't be another HH book(I think) but will be the third book in the Bequin series, considering all the hints and connections and the Abnett loves to do that stuff.

[@antoineharteurt4896]

Personally chapters being really short wasn’t a bother reading the book: I think it conveys a really interesting sense of urgency and the mad flying of events, jumping from characters to characters in the overwhelming rush forward of this apocalypse. Listening to it may have been less comfortable but reading it was very pleasant

[@michastanisawski9093]

My boy! You pulled through perfect before Christmas gonna sit down to watch it when I get home.

[@Brother_Rony]

Honestly "the speed of darkness" was the funniest shit I have heard in a long while

[@thatguy990]

All of Black library’s trilogies should be 2 books and their 2 book series should be a single novel. Always. Instead they stretch everything out, turning people off.

[@bearstorm7587]

Reading more books is acceptable if you're a person who reads books.

[@Subject_Keter]

Important crap for 2 books and a "off the record" series of some archiverist finding the missing records on Terra or some ruin.

[@sherlockwayne5407]

My God, I Just finished the book, I have never ever skipped SO MANY PAGES of a book I wanted to read, my dude Abby, we are at the fucking end... I do not care about the popopipi sergeant of the Cock and balls regiment, I WANT TO SEE THE LEGENDARY END OF THE HERESY

[@danielinskip8427]

The thing about dying thoughts is true, I was stabbed and as I was bleeding out I wondered if it would be on the news.

[@redluke8119]

I really enjoyed the series. I think like anything else it was literally impossible for dan abnett to please everyone. Im just glad to see these events fleshed out in novel form.

[@jujuyarn]

Just found your channel, awesome video, looking forward to binging the rest of your content. I personally have read the entire heresy series and this is one of the bottom 5 to me, I feel like at least 10 hours of the audiobook could have just been cut without any negative impact on the content of the book, and though I did find the twist (and really that they added something cohesive that we weren't expecting) to be a welcome addition, I really couldn't help but be disappointed.

[@CarlCole-vj4qv]

I haven't read the book, probably never will, but it sounds like an anthology of short stories. It was funny to listen to all your commentary.

[@Pemmont107]

The book could've been half the size and we'd have missed nothing :) It pains me to think of all those "forgotten" characters we could've seen in part 2, instead of what we got: Where's Sevatar? What's Lorgar doing now? So many others and so much potential. But instead we got.. this.

[@benjamintrejo9307]

Been checking every day for u to release this

[@wilcher1679]

Man I was trippin balls on a bad shroom trip, but hearing you ramble about the end of the Horus Heresy grounded me on reality. Ironic with all the warp stuff.

[@johnsmith3085]

700 pages of treading water+50 pages of advancing the story (the main one, anyway)=The End and The Death Volume 2.

[@N0TYALC]

It’s the penultimate book in a 60-part series. Why were you expecting it to be straight to the point?

[@AAhmou]

​@@N0TYALCFair, why expect the end of Horus Heresy to be good when in average it has been middling at best with soaring highs and abyssimal lows.

[@josephboustany4852]

Guilliman did die at the hands of morty in "Godblight" yet there was no light So i think the light doesn't pop out until the primarch in question is actually dead

[@myself2noone]

Rogal Dorn channeling the spirit of The Black Thorn I see. "You cannot have my pain..."

[@Instar_nine]

I'm not sure what you were expecting A long drawn out fight with hours of talking Sangunius was trying to kill horus, it happens fast Horus then messes up Sangunius If he is actually dead? He may regenerate? Black rage etc we don't know until the 3rd book Alpharius and Dorns fight went quick with Alpharius actually trying to talk to Dorn Maybe you are all thinking about Lion vs curze and all the talking That was more of a hunt with Curze hiding alot of the time I enjoyed the book anyway It's not perfect but I liked it Each to there own

[@TKUltra971]

The third book will probably open with Angel's final thoughts and his sons about to go full nightmare mode.

[@TheEmperorsChampion964]

I've always felt like certain factions of the Eldari should be natural allies with the imperium such as eldrad. Do we really have such different goals in the end?

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

I think with sangy’s “death” I get the feeling some bs is going to happen in book 3 before the black rage goes off

[@platexproductions]

1:35:20 Actae gets pulled out of the rubble by Rogal Dorn, and Kat is dead.

[@mastermobius1084]

would have been better if the emp had kept the power with Horus stating he chose to become who he is now precisely because the Emperor was always going to become the dark king. The emperor could have offered him to join his side until Oli shows up to try and persuade the Emperor to give up the power, horus kills him making the emperor kill him could have been an interesting twist on the Emperors sacrifice and Horus's betrayal.

[@36G]

I honestly loved the book. It makes ypu understand how serious a threat chaos really is. Also the way Sanguinius dies cements the real power of horus.

[@aleksander10101]

My fave bit about Sanguinius getting Nurgle is that its a reference to the Dornian Heresy what if event GW supported