J. Krishnamurti & David Shainberg - New York 1983 - Dialogue - Memory, thought and...

[@grahaminglis4242]

Interesting dialogue between one who represents the outcome of academic mind scientific training ( S ) and the other who learned through self exploration ( K ). It is self evident that K is in a vastly expanded wisdom whereas S is languishing in the conditioning brought about by adhering to the structure of principles and concepts espoused by the mechanical methodology that underpins mainstream academic tertiary institutions. The fact that K understands the whole of consciousness and other experts are floundering around with their theories of reductionist methodology which produce more confusion than clarity about human psychological effects is stunning.

[@slavomirakrasna2111]

Or simply- the fact that one is trying to understand the other, to understand themselves, is stunning. The other fact, that of pretending to investigate, or to look for a brand new information, while stuck to the old known, is just very often funny.

[@brutusalwaysminded]

The dialogues are the most intriguing way of receiving K's message, imo. Thank You.

[@patricefomo294]

I have been watching k's talks and discussions but this one is pur gem. I thank the Jiddu Krishnamurti Fundation for bringing such a discussion in this our confuse and crazy world.

[@karenann5090]

Agree!

[@AshishKaloliya]

This is the first ever most significant breakthrough in the history of a mankind.

[@sadsaccc]

amazing breakthrough !

[@prakashthakur7792]

Yes it is but who is going to believe it. Their ego won't allow them to realize this ultimate truth, anyways nobody can do anything in this context.

[@adilneves6527]

@@prakashthakur7792 i dont think that it is matter of belief. But rather a question of what is one to do after realising our programming? What right action will flow after that realisation? Everytime I wonder when people have read the work of K, what they define as right action.

[@aseemap8308]

This is what the hindus have been saying for a long time. Yoga was all about helping you get rid of your samskaras (conditioning)

[@peterracz4027]

Never have I seen a discussion like this with any of the gurus, who are unable to have an honest dialogue. Gurus never admit they did not understand something.

[@ashrafulhaque8759]

To use the word Extraordinary is an understatement. How fortunate we are to hear these dialogues.

[@WingZeroSymphonics]

Wow saw the whole thing in one sitting. It was that good. This was a really good one.

[@Absolutely-nothing80]

Incredible. I am short of words. Love you K sir.❤

[@cosmicrider3]

Thé presence of Shainberg allows us to see that we could be as confused as him, being caught in our own web of ideals as our society programs us, and then keep going in circles larger or smaller.

[@andrewhussey8702]

It seems very fair that everyone gets the opportunity to discover the program and has also the opportunity to shed it .

[@di_kid00]

Yes! Is it not freeing to see that one can be free of that programming? To be free of the conditioned self that suffers and remembers.

[@patricefomo294]

"the program is ME" what a clarity 🥰

[@bolero4554]

The last minute is so precious. Wish it wasn't cut off

[@ascendrik]

Same...

[@christianhertel2533]

Gracias por subir este material 🙏

[@curewish574]

truly remarkable and insightful !

[@alberto7gonzalez]

36:14 It’s not about programming it’s about how to break free from the burden of memory and all the programming that has been set. This Jesus man, teaches you exactly how to go through that long process

[@jessicaramos9661]

Obrigada pela tradução 🙏☺️

[@graphstyle]

The last minute is a huge breakthrough

[@lhamothondup8596]

So interesting 🤔 😍!

[@sushamakarve8504]

Very deep conversation that opens the doors on a lot of things. Would be wonderful to hear all that Krishnamurti said after the recording stopped. Where can we get it? Is there a book of these dialogues?

[@adilneves6527]

Well i had the same thing, but than I questioned myself if its right action and what is my intention behind the action, in this case wanting to know more about the conversation. I think you can find similar conversations in the book written by K, called the awakening of the intelligence.

[@fredynavarrete7933]

i did not liked dr Shainberg at the beginning.... i know why.... because there is a dr shainberg inside of us......thanks to dr shainberg i had an insight into the nature of the self!! thnaks k

[@jerrygardner9370]

I always find Dr. Shainberg to be quite annoying, he never seems to understand K and yet was often in his company over many years, it is tiresome watching him continue to misunderstand everything K says.

[@COOPER9344]

I feel the same way. Especially the dialogs with David Bohm, Shainberg and K. At least it shows how awful psychiatry is.

[@peterracz4027]

Shainberg was extremly courageous in participating in these discussions as he was a psychiatrist that trained psychiatrists and had a reputation to protect. Besides that he is one of the few psychoanalysts who could work successfully with schizophrenic patients and sometimes he was close to miraculous. His book The Transforming Self is one that every shrink should read. He was somehow lost around K, but who was not?

[@ashrafulhaque8759]

I too feel, in some area, Dr. David could just let K continue on -in order to show how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Yet, it was still a great eye opener dialogue- as always. Thanks.

[@kooroshrostami27]

@@peterracz4027 Shainberg was probably good in his field but all lost outside of it.

[@coucousalut4899]

K. may be mistaken for his message uses thoughts which are, according to himself, limited, and unable to see the reality as a whole.

[@daliakrinsky4895]

Amazing 👏

[@annip5573]

what a pitty that it stopped at this very interesting point, I wonder how Krishnamurti overcome his traumas by having lost the memory about it

[@Gluesticky21]

No power/emotion anymore. It's like watching a movie that once made you emotional but now there is no feeling.

[@janetlovell7171]

I am trying to locate anyone who had a discussion with This awesome human being. Need to further discuss movement beyond thought...

[@ivybagatsing5461]

Yes. Amazing talks ⭐⭐⭐👍

[@adilneves6527]

there are local dialogue groups that can be found. I wonder what comes to mind when you take a look behind the reason of the need to further discuss?

[@chrishouck2863]

Thought is the end of the movement. What is after can't be put into words.. Hence the fact that thought that has ended.. no more verbage in ward or out.

[@chrishouck2863]

Don't search for more people. Search in your self . The fact that u are searching means your thinking . And those thoughts are the conditioning that is searching.

[@kamalhalder4106]

there's no movement beyond thought.its just word play/game of word/image making

[@Silvana-r8v]

It’s incredible how this psychologist doesn’t understand anything. Instead of helping Krishnamurti clarify certain points by allowing him to develop his ideas, he asks stupid questions and wastes precious time with someone who embodies life and love itself, trying to open a window for us to see through. All he does is block that window. It’s truly a shame, and frankly, it’s infuriating. Krishnamurti’s compassion and patience with this man are extraordinary. At one point, he almost seems to hold his head in frustration as the interruptions continue, though he would never say it because his heart is filled with love. But I, still living with my ego, feel the need to express this frustration. It’s a real loss that more people like David Bohm, who had profound conversations with him, didn’t come along to let this bird soar and show us the beauty of its flight, helping us glimpse that there’s much more than what we believe.

[@Ludifant]

26:42 "What is security?" .. Security is the (always false) assurance you will not have to meet your lack of trust.

[@jenniferlee5871]

He says “ we are unwilling to go there and see we seek security in something that is dead”. Light bulb goes on.

[@educationalramblings6826]

I love JK... He doesn't just go along to pretend he understands what DS is saying. He constantly admits he is not following him and also challenges him to use other words. I swear academics get in their own way by being stuck on the language they've been taught to use. It's like DS is sitting in a box speaking while JK is looking over him in the box trying to get him to come out. I also wish DS would say "I" think instead of "we" or "people " think.

[@bisrut]

why is it that what I think is important ? this Qn if stayed with and not attempted an Ans is so revealing . I feel these talks should be listened w/ pause .The listener , if I may request , please stop at each sentence K says .. give a pause ..Let it sink ..

[@karenann5090]

Agree!

[@cyprusfootballplayers-cfpm7021]

oh wow what did he say at the end,i am very curious about it..wish the recording went on.. Anyhow thanks!!!

[@prakashthakur7792]

Rewind it and listen again "you ,me and every human brain is pre-programmed and nobody has any freedom or freewill ". If you accept it you are out of the web otherwise do sadhana that will lead you to the fact the J.K. shared in that wonderful talk.

[@ajabisong]

The impression remains, but the memory has no content. Then the brain is (always) new.

[@roytacleb8781]

Unfortunately they the stop recording. And now i wonder where the discussion may have gone to. Looks like k has something more to tell to Dr. Shainberg.

[@csillamolnar3664]

Ah Dr Shainberg...after talking for 7 hours in 1976 about self-centered stuff want some more?

[@denonoshten]

I was just watching the 1976 discussion with Dr. Bom and I was thinking the same thing. Why is this man (dr.Shainberg) always asking questions that he obviously doesn't understand?

[@christopherclasen6351]

I think Jiddu learned much from that man, about himself, eventhough, oviously, he finds that talk annoing, quite often^^

[@meghan42]

I think Shainberg learned much through krishnamurti.

[@graphstyle]

J learns constantly, and that that is the beauty of relationship, no matter if the other human grasps or not.

[@Ludifant]

14:54, nice to have a historic record of probably one of the first misuses of the word "literally". It´s not just millenials :)

[@Gaurav.P0]

But, he didn't said what to do if we are clung and attached to particular practices and rituals. Should we stop following that practices if i became aware of that programming ?...... Example, I am born into Hindu family, and i am following and practicing certain rituals taught by my parents. So , what should i do now if i became aware of my programming ? Should i suddenly leave every practices and become atheist ?? And if i decided to leave practices and rituals but my parents will not allow me to do it. So what should i do now ??? Should i keep performing rituals and stay to the programming ? How to leave that programming ?

[@meghan42]

If you can see through that programming, you have already left it.

[@marcosmulka]

do nothing. Leave the program running. The only coherent thing to do is make yourself fully aware of all the details of what you do without judgment. At some point there will be no option but to take an intelligent action.

[@clodhopper-dodo]

If you have the insight to see through your programming, the insight breaks the shackles of the programing patterns. The 'you' is a program, which likes to create another program. Here the insight dissolves the you. Now if your parents ask you to do something, that's not going to condition you because you can see through the game. You are aware. Therefore what you do is not as important as your awareness about what you are doing.

[@ladikapoor9296]

Hi Gaurav, I also felt same when I first came across JKs teachings but it was easier for me to drop everything because I do not live in india. I have seen in india throughout the year there are festivals and holy days with rituals. Every month there is something, but once one has perception these holdings start to loose its grip like onion layers become loose. I use to feel guilty if I did not follow it thoroughly you see what mind games they play with us. If you still need to do then another way which you may find helpful is like we leave our shoes out of temple leave I outside when performing then it is just performance like JK says no duality.. only observation on,y experience without the doer. We are all one. Wishing you to have this perception brother. ❤🙏🏻🌈

[@krox477]

There's no problem if you find meaningful reason behind that practice. Most practices are passed on culturally as traditions

[@coucousalut4899]

If thought is intrinsically limited, how can K, who uses thoughts, deliver a true message ?

[@CaioMartins90]

Nesse caso o pensamento se faz necessário para comunicar, nisso não a problema nenhum, não a contradição. A problemática do pensamento é quando ele adentra na parte psicológica de resolver os problemas humanos

[@nabinshrestha5384]

Word is a word.

[@bhoot786]

Yo! 🌼

[@lokeshparihar7672]

57:49 - off record

[@nineofive.2573]

I’ve been trying for a while to get into words the image I get when people of the scientific mind talk to K. It seems to me that they will probably never spout anything of substance because there are paradoxes all over there images and concepts, for that they are in vain. they don’t realize that what they are looking for is not on the table aka there memory. I’ve heard someone say he’s so wrong not even the opposite is right and that may be true here. The question is theres a way of seeing this, not think or conceive but see on an instant as K has wisely said in the past.

[@jswootheblackscreen]

💓🙏💓

[@robertopuccianti8498]

🙏💥🧡

[@Ludifant]

The more I feel the need to scream, the deeper the inner silence can become. Modern society rewards us with some wonderful opportunities to want to scream. Why is it important, what causes this to happen? What would you gain, if you knew? And is this not an answer to your own question?

[@Gaurav.P0]

What is the last part JK was saying?? 😅 Can someone tell me please 🙏

[@goodtimes9638]

56:06

[@leilamobasserii]

❤

[@CarlosSouza-jy1us]

aqui tem sabedodia...

[@didiksugito8637]

Tlong dong admin kasih bahasa indonesia

[@anjusagar5659]

🙏🙏

[@Marc-yn8nd]

The pandzmic showed what modern programation could do...

[@raginbakin1430]

Man I’m too high for this shit

[@ill_arion]

Нарешті додали Українські субтитри

[@goodtimes9638]

58:18

[@leilamobasserii]

❤️