GIBRALTAR | Britain's Unsolvable Dispute?

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Well, what did you expect me to cover this week!? :-) I wasn't going to do this for a while. But the surprise English advancement to the Euro final against Spain made this impossible not to do! Seriously though, what are your thoughts on this? Is this a dispute that has just to be managed in perpetuity? Or is there a formula to settle it? Perhaps the Gibraltarians will eventually give up on British rule as the effects of Brexit wear them down. As always, let me know what you think.

[@Prebaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Bosnia, as always :D that Resolution breakdown is long overdue professor, if you don't mind me saying!

[@Richard1A2B]

Then you should have made the video last year when the Lionesses won the Euros against Spain 😉 Everyone forgets the ladies have been there first.

[@olliestudio45]

I don't get why Gibraltar is seen as so strategic when Tarifa and Ceuta stick out more into the strait.

[@pedroecijaserrano6723]

​@@olliestudio45 It is for the UK, as it would otherwise not have a presence in the region. Trade through the Suez canal goes through the straight of Gibraltar too. It is not strategic for Spain though, as it has other options. The issue for Spain is different, as if France controlled the Cliffs of Dover, the UK would naturally want to take it back.

[@tedcrilly46]

@@olliestudio45 I think its just people parroting for the most part. In sail and steamboat times that would have been a very valuable spot. And thats what got written down, and its been an echo ever since. Some people seem to assume its right on the strait/tip. Although I suppose it does still have some middling strategic value. Never know when these little places come in useful, the little UK airbases on Cyprus are looking useful recently.

[@Pikaling3408]

Great timing for that video with the Euro 2024 final.

[@bilic8094]

Hopefully England could win this one they didn't play great throughout the tournament but last game they showed the team is talented at all positions I hope southgate could bring it home the media has destroyed that guy.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Indeed. I had been working on the script for this for a few weeks, but planned to do it another time. And then England get through to the final and there seemed like no better time to tackle it! :-)

[@rodox2832]

The winner takes Gibraltar

[@biddyboy1570]

@@rodox2832 thought they already had?

[@ABCantonese]

Good thing I checked the comments before saying the same thing!

[@Twinkiepower420]

You always release these on Fridays around the end of the work day here in the U.S., which means I always get to start my weekend with them. 🎉😎🎉

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Great stuff! Thanks. 🙏🏻👏👏👏😀

[@mussajavdan8203]

Well Dr. Lindsay deleted my comments like always while we have another opinion than him . I write my opinion very politely again Dr. Its is very clear that the wish of the Gibraltar citizens have to bee respected . But it also have to come with consequences. You can not vote to stay in British colony but simultaneously have the benefit as an EU member state ,and the profits of the Spanish territory surrounding you. I believe Spain have been very soften regarding the issue . I would force a very stronger policy so you just wish to be apart of Spain

[@hypotheticalaxolotl]

@@mussajavdan8203 a) it was probably youtube, not the channel creator, deleting your comments b) even if it was the channel operator, honestly if you're gonna spam the same thing across all the Top Comments, comments the content of which doesn't seem to actually matter to you since you're just copy+pasting and not modifying them to fit, then I'd probably delete them too. It's annoying.

[@audience2]

​@@mussajavdan8203A policy of trying to "force" the Gibraltarians is likely to produce the opposite result.

[@pedroecijaserrano6723]

It is a good summary, but a bit one-sided (I do not mean that in a bad way). For example, Gibraltar wasn't held by a succession of foreign powers (Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, and the Ummayyad Caliphate) without any intervention from the locals until 1462.For the vast majority of antiquity, it belonged to a local Iberian tribe (Turdetani). When Gibraltar was taken in the 1700s,the locals were expelled by the invading troops. They were later replaced with people loyal to the UK, hence the lack of Spanish identity nowadays. Common then, but now we call it ethnic cleansing. Nevertheless, I agree that regardless of how we got here, there is no point in ignoring the will of the Gibraltarians. In relation to the Treaties of Utretch, the nuance is that they refer to "the rock and the castle," not including the ithsmus or the surrounding waters. The issue with that is the fishing rights, which Spain argues were never ceded, and the UK claims naturally follow from possession of the land. This is literally a daily headache in the area. Also, in mid or late 1800s (I dont remember the exact date), disease was going rampant through the barracks in Gibraltar. Spain allowed, on an interim basis, that new barracks were built on the ithsmus, to separate the ill from the healthy, and better deal with the outbreak. The UK never returned the ithsmus as per the agreement. That piece of land was not included in the Treaties of Utretch, but taken by the UK after a Spanish gesture of goodwill, which naturally bothers Spain to no end. In addition, Gibraltar's airport was built on the ithsmus, and extending over the water (that Spain maintains was never ceded), so you see how the thing itches to Spanish people familiar with the topic. There is a UN resolution from the 1960s requiring Gibraltar to be decolonised, but it was obviously ignored. In relation to Schengen, and border control issues, the UK didn't join Schengen, therefore, Gibraltar didn't either. Gibraltar has complained to EU's Frontex many times about excessive controls on the border, but Frontex has always ruled that they are proportionate and consistent with a non-Schengen border. Many issues arose by Gibraltar's understandable zeal with keeping authority over its surrounding waters, which Spain equates with providing safe harbour to smugglers and drug dealers pursued by the Spanish civil guard. There were also issues in the past with oil tankers anchoring in Gibraltar to operate as floating petrol stations, which ended up polluting Spanish waters due to frequent spills. As it is now, Gibraltar and the Spanish side (La Línea) have a situation of co-dependence, they need each other. Brexit has dealt a terrible hand to Gibraltar. A few years ago some colleagues who live there said that, after Brexit, they get a weekly ship from the UK, restocking M&S, but the shelves are empty again by the evening. What keeps the place supplied is the Spanish supermarket. They also depend on Spanish hospitals for healhcare, and many Gibraltarians actually lived in Spain because housing in Gibraltar is so scarce that it became prohibitive. The place's strategic value is no more for as long as Spain and UK are in NATO. Rota, in nearby Cadiz, is the best NATO base in the area, and the most used. Even the Royal Navy uses it primarily over Gibraltar. Ironically, Cadiz was the original target of the Anglo-Dutch force that landed in Gibraltar. They were repelled, dug in, and met the end of the war still there. I hope you find the extra information that I have added interesting, maybe to have a better understanding of why it is such an issue for some Spaniards.

[@stewatparkpark2933]

It is common practice to divide text into paragraphs .

[@gbickell]

Nice info! Thank you for taking the time to fill in some gaps.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Very good point, well made! Sadly, this is essentially European history in a nutshell. Almost no borders have been created without war and ethnic cleansing.

[@leor7870]

The information fails to point out that under the UN convention on the Law of the Seas specifically demarcate the sea boundaries around Gibraltar, which was adhered to by the Franco dictatorship.

[@silliestsususagest3276]

Also Gibraltar isn't a colony it's a British Overseas Territory

[@Tom-ct1rr]

Most of what you have said is very skew. In 1938 while Spain was in a civil war, they stole more Spanish territory and built an airport. In the 1960s, the UN voted by majority to decolonize Gibraltar. In the 60s, England left it as a tax haven but since the border was closed they dedicated themselves to tobacco smuggling. In the 80's when Spain opened the border it was still a tax haven, black money increased towards the new banks that were installed, and lots of online gaming companies since there were almost no taxes, so there was an economic boom in Gibraltar for the rich settled there. I suppose from the UK and associates. They are in paradise buying luxurious mansions in Sotogrande with luxurious golf clubs, because the border is open. They continue to launder money under the umbrella of the UK, how are they going to want anything to change? no way, like this forever. That is why the British government perfidiously claims to respect the will of the inhabitants of Gibraltar, even the newcomers which the treaty you have read does not even mention inhabitants at all. Did the UK government say that the will of the inhabitants of Hong Kong should be respected? Nope! China too big to mess around.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Sorry, but none of that makes what I said a fallacy. All you ah w down is added more detail to what I have said. So, thank you for that. (There is only so much one can cover in a 10-15 minute video.) But I should say that suggesting that I set out to device, as using the word fallacy suggests, is deeply unfair and I usually delete comments suggesting that I have lied. I make these videos in good faith. I don’t set out to deceive anytime. Please edit your comment accordingly.

[@piotrmoklinowski9103]

Es decir. En 1704 GB-NL toman Gibraltar SIN PREGUNTARLE NADA A SU POBLACIÓN en nombre del PRETENDIENTE HABSBURGO AL TRONO DE ESPAÑA. Pero a partir de 1960 GB sí "tiene que" preguntar. Curioso, muy curioso. También intentaron conquistar Málaga en agosto de 1704 y se quedaron con las ganas.

[@gregosyesyez828]

Would this not be the same with cueta and mellila? They now reside in modern day morocco and were surely inhabited by native north africans before spain claimed them.

[@aleixpucherodriguez8313]

@@gregosyesyez828 Amigo, Ceuta y Melilla son españolas desde antes de que Marruecos existiera. No tiene sentido la comparación.

[@gregosyesyez828]

@aleixpucherodriguez8313 yes, hence why i say they reside within modern day morocco, the land mass with indigenous people existed before it was known as morocco and before spain claimed the territories as their own.

[@aleixpucherodriguez8313]

@@gregosyesyez828 entonces me estas dando la razón.

[@markaxworthy2508]

@@aleixpucherodriguez8313 The status of Gibraltar was agreed in 1715. The UK would happily give up Gibraltar today. However, these days the opinion of the population matters. Gibraltarians are largely Spanish-speaking and most surnames there are Spanish. All Spain has to do is to persuade Gibraltarians of the benefits of unification with Spain. Problem solved!

[@ojloub]

England has used the same strategy every where in the world, take the land, colonize it, and 200 years later when the majority is English make a referendum in the name of democracy. 😂😂😂

[@marklittle8805]

@@ojloub well yes, but to be fair, no one there now is "conquered" and most have ancestors from Britain. Just the same as the people in the Falklands. The Spanish nor the Argentinians ever lived there either. And when Britain did give Hong Kong back, look how it has worked out? The Chinese in Hong Kong used to having a say in the government and social freedoms are now dealing with Beijing. Think they don't want the Brits back? The Brits gave up almost every colony they ever had and likely would have here too if the Spanish didn't make it so plain they were hostile to the Brits being there at all. Never mind that it was British through a treaty. Never mind the UK never threatened Spain in modern years. Never mind the two nations outside of this never really had issue with each other in modern times. But the Spanish have never understood the best way to get the UK to walk away from a Colony is to let them find out it is not worth the cost on their own. Forcing the issue or making threats just turned the people in the colony off.

[@TheOtorrinonaringolo]

@@marklittle8805 creo que estas equivocado, aunque si es verdad que en los tiempos modernos hemos sido y somos aliados España no puede dejar de presionar por recuperar una conquista con engaño, evidentemente una guerra es impensable hoy día, pero diplomaticamente estos obligados, los gibraltareños evidentemente quieren conservar su estatus de paraíso fiscal ,hay más empresas que habitantes y cruzar la frontera para comprar barato en España es muy cómodo, sin contar que hasta ahora se beneficiaban de nuestra seguridad social. Con respecto al tratado de utrech se le cedió el peñón y el puerto pero no las aguas territoriales de Algeciras, y para colmo si miras un mapa antiguo verás que el territorio cedido era más pequeño, cuando Gibraltar sufrió una crisis sanitaria España les cedió terreno para poder atenderlos ,en vez de irse cuando controlaron la enfermedad se establecieron allí, hoy día se sigue ganando terreno al mar que no les pertenece y atacando los pesqueros de Algeciras que son los dueños legítimos de las aguas,los enfrentamientos entre vuestra policía y la guardia civil protegiendo los pesqueros y persiguiendo narcos que se refugian en Gibraltar son constantes, solo espero sinceramente que no pase a mayores,ya nos hemos peleado bastante en la historia 😅. Un saludo.

[@m.a.3704]

@@marklittle8805 Reino Unido es como una mierda, pero sin el "como".

[@markaxworthy2508]

@@m.a.3704 Gracias por su sofisticado análisis.

[@m.a.3704]

@@markaxworthy2508 gracias! A mandar.

[@tylerpartridge8205]

I always find it funny how Spain🇪🇸has such a problem with Gibraltar🇬🇮but when Morocco🇲🇦complains of Ceuta and Melilla - it falls on deaf ears 🤷‍♂️

[@crose7412]

Spain's argument about both Ceuta and Melilla is that they were seized before Morocco came into being so therefore it has right to control the territory.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Ceuta and Melilla should go back to Morocco since Spain wants to play that game. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@demonke7829]

Cuesta and Melilla have been Spanish far longer than Gibraltar was british as well as th fact Moroccans are grateful to Spain for generous ally ceding large amounts of Spanish land in africa to Morocco

[@heycidskyja4668]

@@demonke7829 So the Morroccans should be grateful to Spain for occupying their land? Pull the other one!

[@eamonreidy9534]

​@@demonke7829Gibraltar has been British far longer than it has been Spanish

[@rallemeister9043]

Its convenient for the british to say that we should let the people that live in Gibraltar vote and let them decide. When you drove out the original population when you took Gibraltar in 1704. That is the reason it is considered a colony by the UN. Because the people that lived there, where displaced. And after that displacement you repopulated Gibraltar with a lot of British, not only but a lot. You like to bring up Ceuta and Melilla a lot in this conversations but there is no point to that. As those Spanish cities have been spanish BEFORE there was any form of Morocco, at all. There is nothing that makes it a colony. As the UN says itself, Ceuta and Melilla are not colonies, but Gibraltar is a colony. James makes great material. But in this video he left some things out. We have to be honest in that the UK has been taking advantage of Spain about the territory around Gibraltar. In the 1850s during an epidemic the Spanish gave the UK permission to built barracks in Spain outside of the agreed territory of British Gobraltar to combat the epidemic. And after the epidemic that Spain helped the UK to combat, the UK stayed and created a new border basically stealing land. And then again for example in 1908 the UK took yet more territory. Amd the uk again extends artificial land to build a god damn airport on stolen territory that is outside of the agreed area according to the treaty. Where does it say in the tready that the UK can take territory as they please? After all of this, the UK has the b@lls to do maintanance and crewchanges on their nuclear submarines in Gibraltar. How convenient. If something horrible where ro happen, it would just happen in southern Spain so who cares, right? We Spanish people are actually really fed up with this. There is more, but this comment is already to long. Those are the problems problem.

[@flashtrash7830]

"Where does it say in the treaty that the UK can take territory as they please?" Practice is not limited to what the treaty allows. Spain accepts international law. See my post on this thread on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea which Spain signed up to in 1997

[@rallemeister9043]

@@flashtrash7830 i did not mention the sea, I have only talked about the landgrab...which is not on par with international law. Dont even try dude.

[@flashtrash7830]

@@rallemeister9043 Hahaha! - it's a discussion thread not a gun-fight.

[@rallemeister9043]

@@flashtrash7830 Hahaha yeah that is true, but I just hope that people from the UK understand that it has not been totally fair even tho we have a contract after the war of 1714

[@casperghst42]

As for Schengen, rememeber that the UK never was a part of it, which would then raise the question why the Rock should be part of it.

[@timoakley277]

Geography is kind of important......

[@lqr824]

It doesn't necessarily follow that every part of a nation needs the same rules. Denmark includes the Faroe Islands which aren't in the EU, for instance, mainly because they don't want to allow all EU nations to over-fish the Faroe waters.

[@casperghst42]

@@lqr824 I know about Faroe Islands, they are covered with the Nordic Community, and Denmark cover travel into schengen. But if they travel to fx. Germany directly, then they need to show passport.

[@casperghst42]

@@timoakley277 not really, Gibraltar is a UK area, which is "within" UK borders, when you decide to leave Gibraltar then you (as you must with you travel from the UK mainland into Schengen) show passport. The only exception is Nother Ireland to RAI, but there the passport control have moved to between UK mainland and (North) Ireland. The UK need a special agreement with Spain (and the rest of the EU) and then there has to be a passport control when you travel from Gibraltar to mainland UK and vise versa. Nothing comes for free.

[@davidrubioroldan]

No directamente español

[@lordgeminismagno7360]

Jhon Bright, político británico, 16 de Noviembre de 1811, 27 de Marzo de 1889. Rochdale, Lancashire Declara que "El Peñón fué tomado y retenido por Inglaterra cuando no estabamos en guerra con España y su apropiación fué contraria a todas las leyes de la moral y del honor"

[@user-ts4yf3fe9u]

Britain don't have a Gibraltar "problem". Spain do.

[@jaccrystal6993]

And the sovereignty of Crimea should be decided on the basis of self determination, too?

[@antoniescargo1529]

They already did.

[@Maria-ig1bd]

Exactly. Referendum results show 99% in favor of remaining Russian.

[@mukkaar]

It's quite different, unless the government of the country agrees no part of that country can just separate. In fact, that would be undemocratic if the rest of the country doesn't agree to that. That same goes for autonomous regions and whatnot, unless there's some other agreement in place.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

@@Maria-ig1bd If you believe that it was valid.

[@everTriumph]

The land is within Ukraine's international borders.

[@kw2142]

haha nice one man, with the football final coming up this is good time to get this out

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Indeed! I really couldn’t do anything else. Luckily, I had been working on the script for a while and so had it handy! :-)

[@greattobeadub]

How about Gibraltar introducing VAT like in the UK and EU? Also stopping cigarettes being smuggled into Spain would be nice.

[@mussajavdan8203]

Well Dr. Lindsay deleted my comments like always while we have another opinion than him . I write my opinion very politely again Dr. Its is very clear that the wish of the Gibraltar citizens have to bee respected . But it also have to come with consequences. You can not vote to stay in British colony but simultaneously have the benefit as an EU member state ,and the profits of the Spanish territory surrounding you. I believe Spain have been very soften regarding the issue . I would force a very stronger policy so you just wish to be apart of Spain

[@Richard-yd1ws]

@@greattobeadub They impose a purchase tax More cigarettes are smuggled into Algeciras And more drugs into La Linea Hth

[@truxton1000]

I’m sure smuggling is not an official policy. What about if Spain removed vat? Several countries have no vat, it’s a sign of intelligent governing.

[@Richard-yd1ws]

@@truxton1000 It is actually a EU requirement

[@greattobeadub]

@@truxton1000 EU law requires VAT, as does the UK. If Gibraltar wants to act like a big duty free shop let it. That’s a choice. We can make the choice of closing the border. Take back control as it were.

[@BlackLabelExpat]

Spain: We need our territory back UK: What about Melilla and Ceuta Spain: We are not talking about that right now

[@eamonreidy9534]

@@abbofun9022 Gibraltar has been under UK control longer than Spanish control

[@abbofun9022]

@@eamonreidy9534 the fact you managed to hold on to it for so long doesn’t make it any less a theft

[@Randomstuffs261]

@@abbofun9022 It's not a theft if they literally gave it to you

[@eamonreidy9534]

@@abbofun9022 I'm not British. Maybe Britain and Spain should return it to a caliphate, or the Turks, or a reformed emirate of Grenada, or maybe the Roman Empire. You irredentist type people are silly

[@georgiewalker5826]

@@abbofun9022 Look it has been British for 300 years, people living there want to be British, that should really be the end of the matter tbh

[@drmccoy33]

England: "Let us win the Euros and we will give you Gibraltar." Spain: "I' will get back to you Monday"

[@valuetraveler2026]

you joke but this is modern soccer

[@riskinhos]

@@valuetraveler2026 football

[@goldenaye3]

Lmao! !

[@thomassummerhill6357]

Gibraltar doesn’t belong to england. it’s British

[@quazarKiragon]

@thomassummerhill6357 technically it's overseas territories of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, so its a sovereign territory essentially apart of the United Kingdom even though its not geographically linked, but does make you wonder why Spain has a hard on to try and claim it as much as they do, but I guess it's the same with the falklands

[@oliversherman2414]

I'm from the UK but I live in southern Spain. I've visited Gibraltar easily over a hundred times since moving to Spain two years ago as I visit it every week. Everyone I've spoken to in Gibraltar is proudly British Gibraltarian and none of them have announced any interest in joining Spain

[@lordgeminismagno7360]

como no, no son Españoles son extranjeros, los verdaderos Gibraltareños son los que viven en San Roque, fundado por los refugiados españoles que poblaban el peñón antes de la invasión rastrera y sin previa declaración de guerra, estos sí votan por España. Antes de comentar cosas informate o piense un poco el por qué solo miran hacia Londres.

[@oliversherman2414]

​@@lordgeminismagno7360In every referendum on Gibraltarian sovereignty the result has always been 99% in favour of Britain

[@lordgeminismagno7360]

@@oliversherman2414 repito, NO SON ESPAÑOLES, los verdaderos pobladores fueron expulsados y se creó una base militar, luego permitieron que se llenara de gente de muchos lugares e ingleses pero no son oriundos de la zona, España posee la soberanía, solo cedió el castillo, la plaza y la Roca hasta que decidiera prescindir del territorio, no lo puede vender, no se puede independizar, no puede ser estado libre asociado, etc, es un territorio con características restringidas dictadas por el tratado de Utrech, si deciden ignorarlo estarían contradiciendo dicho tratado anulandoce este y teniendo que devolver el territorio, lo curioso es que ningún gobierno inglés pensaría devolverlo pase lo que pase, como si lo venden y el problema ya no sería de ellos a pesar de estar escrito que no pueden venderlo, Reino unido nunca a sido un país de fiar ya que solo miraba por sus intereses sin mirar a sus aliados

[@oliversherman2414]

​@@lordgeminismagno7360 You've never been to Gibraltar, have you? It's not like everyone there is English. In fact, Spanish is just as widely spoken across the territory. Many Gibraltarians actually speak Spanish more than English. But, despite this, they still have no interest in joining Spain. They've democratically elected to stay with the UK more than once, which is more than can be said about Cueta and Melilla which Spain refuses to so much as consider a referendum for

[@JoseDaniel-iw7rq]

@@oliversherman2414 And? They speak Spanish because they need to, as a large part of the essential supplies and services, such as food and consumer goods, come from Spain. Many Gibraltarians don't even work there; they work in Spain. Honestly, Spain should close the borders and not let anyone through. In that case, we'd see how much longer Gibraltarians would want to remain part of the UK (which isn't really their decision anyway). If the politicians in London decide they don't want Gibraltar anymore, they'll just abandon them, regardless of what the people there want. After all, no referendum was held for the people of Hong Kong to decide if they wanted to return to China. The decision to transfer Hong Kong's sovereignty to China was based on international agreements between the UK and China. Or to put it another way, the UK simply couldn't maintain Hong Kong anymore, so they decided to leave with dignity and abandoned them to their fate.

[@micupedro]

It is foolish to argue about Gibraltar. That the Treaty of Utrecht be complied with: total land isolation and closure of the border. No water, no electricity, no telephone lines from Spain. Any ship that docks in Gibraltar can never dock again in a Spanish port. Return of the Isthmus and the airport illegally built there, since it was never ceded in the Treaty of Utrecht. Compliance with the United Nations Resolutions demanding that Great Britain decolonise and return Gibraltar to Spain. That the international legality of the United Nations be complied with. Otherwise, even if 1000 years pass, the time will come when the United Kingdom will fall. As long as there is an invaded Gibraltar, there can be no sincere friendship, only friendship of convenience and hypocrisy in the mutual relationship.

[@ianc8054]

Dispute... surely not? The treaty of Utrecht (1713) has some pretty final key words... "for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever." The territory has been British for longer than it was Spanish.

[@marcosvidal4940]

it didn't include 'sovereignty'

[@BuckDanny2314]

These are diplomatic terms with little meaning. Remember each of these treaties back then stated there would be "perpetual friendship" between the former enemies, who nevertheless frequently fought each other a few years after the treaty. So much for parchment garantees...

[@MrTangolizard]

@@BuckDanny2314that still doesn’t change the fact that it’s British

[@BuckDanny2314]

@@MrTangolizard Did I say otherwise? Of course it's a British territory for now, nobody disputes this.

[@MrTangolizard]

@@BuckDanny2314 “diplomatic terms with little meaning” well they mean a lot to the people who live there

[@MidnightTheOne]

Gibraltarians want the best of both worlds. Though it's fair that they stay under British rule if they voted to for that.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@MidnightTheOne Yes have their cake and eat it. That was tried to exhaustion by Theresa May and her succesors but unfortunately the other party in the negotiations held stronger cards !

[@ShotsMerkzAll]

The Spanish rely on Gib far more. Thousands of workers go into the border each day. Gibraltarians just want to pop over for some cheap shopping

[@elnoideelsencarrecs8528]

They settlers pbiusly they want to be keep in english rule

[@gibo5863]

We actually have a great residential retreat on one of our beaches called Both Worlds...:)

[@quiteamazingtoo]

As usual, nothing was said for the benefit of the UK.

[@telluwide5553]

One US super carrier would make Gibraltar militarily obsolete...lol.. Beside, if the UK ever wants to rejoin the EU, now with Spains veto power, giving up Gibraltar would be added to the list of excrement the UK would have to eat to even be considered...😅.. and yet, UK citizens elected Nigel Farage to parliament...Whenever I get depressed about US politics all I have to do is look at UK politics and all its blunders over the past 110 years and what their place in the world has become, and I feel pretty damn good...😅

[@ab-ym3bf]

Understandable , but don't become too complacent. After all, you will have to chose one of 2 geriatrics that can hardly distinguish elbow from @rs in november. In would not want to trade places with you. Or brits.

[@leehallam9365]

So if Spain held it from 1462, it has been British for about 80 years longer than it was Spanish.

[@gibraltarik]

And Moorish for longer than both combined

[@nunosilva187]

@@gibraltarik and lusitanian before that.

[@matt47110815]

And Roman, way longer. Britain needs to finally understand, that shit does not belong to them, just because they want it.

[@alexbiden9567]

@@matt47110815 you tell that to Spain who have cities in Morocco

[@bobhob35]

@@matt47110815 by that logic it shouldn’t belong to Spain either

[@joebullwinkle5099]

From an Americans perspective, it was very instructive to watch your presentation to not only see the history of Gibraltar, but the ongoing issues of British sovereignty over a slice of territory that is physically connected to Spain. I was particularly fascinated to hear that the local population is so strongly opposed to Spain taking over sovereignty, when it appears that many of the locals travel to Spain every day or at least very regularly.

[@RayThackeray]

@freebeerfordworkers The British Government fucked everything up with Brexit, were you not listening?

[@unaihernandez330]

He forgot when UK asked Spain to used temporarily neutral and spanish territory to figth an epidemic and when that finish they still occupying that land

[@marcusbrown188]

@@joebullwinkle5099 from Mercian perspective we Americans do have our own version of Gibraltar called Guantanamo Bay but has a lack of tourism

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@RayThackeray That's the problem with the concept of democracy. People like you only support it when you like the decisions.

[@a34rwl]

You do know about Ceuta and Melia?

[@edmundflett474]

Apart from the issue of the isthmus, Spain is very hard to sympathise with. One of the foremost colonial powers of all time signs a bit of land away in a treaty. They come to regret that. That piece of land develops its own separate culture, and overwhelmingly rejects annexation into Spain. Some international conflicts are shades of grey, but this one is just tedious nationalist irredentism. No amount of decolonial verbiage can hide the hypocrisy.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Culture genocide is development?

[@artman12]

Agreed. I hate to have to side with Britain on this one but they have all the rights to Gibraltar as long as Spain holds Ceuta and Melilla. Can’t have hypocrisy when you’re trying to portray yourself as the victim.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I would agree. I find these types of dispute very interesting for all sorts of reasons. It’s one thing when we talk about colonialism. It’s another when two European states continue to fight over artificial lines on maps drawn U.K. after otherwise long forgotten wars. If every European state opened up questions about lost territory we’d be in a real mess. I don’t have any particular attachment to Gibraltar (or Northern Ireland for that matter), but I can accept the argument that it is up to the people in question to decide. On top of that, I also recognise the inherent hypocrisy of this situation as Spain complains about Gibraltar but somehow insists that Melilla and Ceuta are completely different. Still, they’ll probably get the upper hand in the football. So, there always that. :-)

[@dairebulson7122]

Well, the way I see it, Gibraltar is rightfully Spanish, Ceuta and Melilla are rightfully Moroccan, and Western Sahara (SADR) is rightfully a sovereign nation (of which Morocco illegally occupies much of) Of course, Gibraltar should have extensive autonomy within Spain, Ceuta and Melilla should have extensive autonomy in Morocco; furthermore Catalonia and Basque should have the right to vote for independence from Spain if a majority of their people wish it

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

​@@dairebulson7122No land belongs to a state by right. Countries font have rights, people do.

[@EmmaMaySeven]

When I compare Gibraltar to the similar situation in Northern Ireland, I feel that the same principles leads to radically different outcomes. I can imagine the population of Northern Ireland one day voting for reunion with the Republic of Ireland. I also know that the Republic respects the people of Northern Ireland in their right to make that decision. But I can't ever see Gibraltar voting themselves into Spain, nor that Spain will genuinely respect their decision not to join. (On a personal level, I really dislike when national leaders put historical claims over and above the rights of people living in the area. Unless that history is very recent or still has deeply negative consequences today (I can imagine such an example but won't name it), I don't respect people who do this. History doesn't have feelings and can't be offended by the present. We should concentrate on fixing the moral wrongs of today, not the perceived wrongs of the past.)

[@rapier1954]

You have decided the two are legitimately comparable under international law but they are not.

[@SnorriTheLlama]

⁠@@rapier1954You can always compare the two cases, whether or not international law aligns with your viewpoint

[@mnk9073]

Why on earth would you ask the transplants? That's like me and three mates occupying your garden and then holding a referendum amongst us four if we want to keep it or return it to you. It's your garden and we're occupying it, nothing changes that regardles if it has been 8 days or 800 years.

[@leor7870]

​@mnk9073 Well, by your analysis, we should redraw all Europe boundaries then.

[@mnk9073]

@@leor7870 Those forced upon the local people by a foreign power, yes absolutely.

[@mr.battledroid2195]

Before British occupation, there was 4000 Spanish families in the rock, 3 days after the occupation, only 3 were left. The Spanish population was replaced by foreigners that did not belong there, what some call Gibraltarians these days are not actual gibraltarians, they are British people placed on Spanish soil, what Britain did is called ethnic genocide. I’m all up for keeping brits in Gibraltar once it’s given back to Spain, even to give them their own autonomous region, but they must comprehend the rock must be returned to Spain.

[@Tusiriakest]

How about Olivença, with Portugal.Spain is obliged by treaty to return the occupied territory, and is yet to comply.

[@Fast58Eddie]

Come on, what difference does Olivenza make? Both countries are part of the EU. Besides, ethnically the Portuguese and Spanish are essentially the same people. I crossed the Spanish Portuguese border a few years ago and it was a non-event. The people in Olivenza can speak whatever language they want and they use the Euro. They can also come and go between Spain and Portugal as they please. The case for Gibraltar is very different, the people there are as English as the Turks. It is a place where illegal activities abound. They should not have been allowed to settle there to begin with. The British should have limited their presence to military personnel only. They created a "self determination" issue to have an excuse to remain there.

[@Tusiriakest]

@@Fast58Eddie It might be the same thing to you. I don't get why Catalans want independence cause they all seem spanish to me, the same with the scotish and the english... all the same to me...Denmark, Sweden and Norway? Being three different countries almost blows my mind... But Spaniards and Portuguese? Spaniards come from the Iberians, while the Portuguese come from Lusitanian Celts; the Visigoths colonized Spain, Portugal was colonized by the Suebi, Spaniards had 300 y+ of arab rule than Portugal...etc etc etc... So... nothing against my Spaniard friends on a personal sense, they are great neighbours (most of the time), awesome party goers, and have a very beautiful country, but if you can't spot the differences, we can... And we have had the same borders since 1297... without any problem... so why ruin that? Spain is bound by treaty to return the territory... it should do so.. as simple as that...

[@kevinnolan1339]

When you have to resort to whataboutery, you've generally lost the argument.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

@kevinnolan1339 I generally agree. But this isn’t exactly whataboutery. I’d usually consider whataboutery to focus on a rather different case as a way of deflecting the debate on a specific issue. For example, responding to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine by asking what about the US and Iraq. In this case, there is a direct link between Spain’s claim to Gibraltar and the fact that it doesn’t respect the fact that it is in a similar situation with other territories. Also, while Spain refutes Britain’s arguments over Gibraltar, it employs the same arguments regarding Ceuta and Melilla.

[@adrianpulido4933]

@@Tusiriakest Maybe I am mistaken but the treaty that compels Spain to give back Olivenza also said that the portuguese had to give back some territories in the south of Brazil to the Banda Oriental, now better known as Uruguay. The Brazilians got their independence before that happened, so the treaty is no longer valid

[@pradeepmagan6951]

what happen to democracy - the people decided to stay with the UK - end of storey - if Spain wins, then they need to give up land in Afica

[@mussajavdan8203]

Well Dr. Lindsay deleted my comments like always while we have another opinion than him . I write my opinion very politely again Dr. Its is very clear that the wish of the Gibraltar citizens have to bee respected . But it also have to come with consequences. You can not vote to stay in British colony but simultaneously have the benefit as an EU member state ,and the profits of the Spanish territory surrounding you. I believe Spain have been very soften regarding the issue . I would force a very stronger policy so you just wish to be apart of Spain

[@tempejkl]

It is a settler colonial state

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@pradeepmagan6951 I don't see the logic in your argument, the two are different things however much you want to bung them together to make a point.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@pradeepmagan6951 To whom ? Morocco ? A Full on dictatorship with an absolutist Monarchy. You're a very generous person !

[@Pisti846]

It is all so silly, it is a British territory and has been for centuries, time to move on.

[@JohnJones-ct9pr]

There is no "Gibraltar issue". It's British. The people pf Gibraltar want it to stay that way. So it stays that way. End of.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

Disputed territory, like many others, is a more accurate description.

[@Paco-Lopez]

el pueblo de Gibraltar vela por sus interese con España serian mas pobre eso esta claro y Gibraltar es español no británico mirad en el mapa en que ubicación esta Gibraltar no me imagino yo que España tenga un trozo de tierra en tu isla británica y sus habitantes no quieran nada con los ingleses porque con España viven mejor vamos a a ser sincero y Ceuta y melilla para los moros que esta en África

[@FredoRockwell]

Great video! I'm in Spain right now so I watched it with particular interest! I can't remember if you've made a video about Ceuta, but I've never quite understood what appears to be a very inconsistent position by Spain. Thanks again!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks Fredo. I hope you are having a good time over there. I have some a video on Melilla and Ceuta. It was rather a long time ago and so I might need to revisit it. In the meantime, I really had to resist the temptation to point out the rather obvious double standards. (Although no doubt we can expect Spanish nationalists to explain why the two cases can’t possible be compared!)

[@gawkthimm6030]

logic from the far-right? what did you expect

[@IrishPartizan]

@@JamesKerLindsay Spain's argument about both Ceuta and Melilla is that they were seized before Morocco came into being so therefore it has right to control the territory. Morocco btw is also on shakey legal ground having annexed the Spanish (now Western Sahara) in 1976 without consulting the local Sahrawi people who had initially taken up arms, in the form of the POLISARIO against the Spanish in the dying days of the Franco regime in 1973. Now there's another idea for a video.

[@glo8778]

@@gawkthimm6030 no far right bin Europe. Or you call Le Pen Far Right?

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Have you visited Gibraltar yet? 🗣️

[@abcdefksohfosuh9024]

Nothing to dispute, the people there want to remain British, unless they have a change of heart Gibralters status should remain as it is.

[@jezalb2710]

Folks in Northern Ireland will soon have their say too

[@gawkthimm6030]

@@jezalb2710 yeah its a part of the good Friday peace agreement, there can be called referendums and the UK has signed unto agree to that referendum... no such deal exists in Gibraltar

[@0816M3RC]

​@@gawkthimm6030 Gibraltar's status is settled.

[@gawkthimm6030]

@@0816M3RC thats what i said...

[@ronaldderooij1774]

I see your point, but rarely in human history, is what the people want a decisive factor for states. States know interests (defined by the elites), nothing else.

[@chacehedges8460]

Having Gibraltar makes me laugh because the UK literally colonized one of the main colonizers 😂

[@jstewart4205]

Gibraltar has been British since 1713. The UK never actually voted to join the EU but we did vote to join it's predecessor, therefore the EU created any problems.

[@Paco-Lopez]

Ustedes seis lo contrario del mundo

[@michael5265]

As long as Spain doesn't try to poke there finger in Gibraltars politics and life. In 2002 i voted for keeping Gibraltar British as did 9899% of the population as my family did the same in 67s. My family has been there since 1786 we may have British names but we are a ethnic diverse family with Maltese, Jewish, Arab, Spanish, British & Irish ancestors.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. That’s amazing to think you have such a long ancestry in Gibraltar. It really does underscore that it has a truly distinct identity.

[@meobligatwitter]

lo que siempre han hecho los británicos mover población según su interes, como va la Guayana Esequiba, callados como ...

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@michael5265 Yes a little outpost of Empire serving the narrow interests of a few privileged individuals belonging to the ruling class, the military and the City

[@A.J.Raffles]

@@michael5265 The problem was that in the Referendum 99% of Gibraltarians rejected being ruled by an elected givernment based in London and chose instead to be ruled by the unelected government of the European Commission based in Belgium.

[@elnoideelsencarrecs8528]

​@@michael5265 Gibraltar is a colony full of settlers, so who voted in that referendum were the settlers, the native people that live it in the rock before 1713 were obligate it to live from his land.

[@davidhowells-rl9li]

Well shouldn't it be left up to people of Gibraltar? To vote on ! Weather they want to belong to Spain or Britain or even become an independent state? The people should have the last say on the destiny of their island?.

[@fil_britbunnyboi872]

@davidhowells-rl9li they did. A referendum was held in 1968 and they voted to stay British

[@marcosvidal4940]

@@fil_britbunnyboi872 only 99%? wow, interesting

[@Khayyam-vg9fw]

The first time I visited Gibraltar, in 2004, I was staggered at the strength of feeling among the Gibraltarians I spoke to, who very firmly wanted to retain their ties to Britain. I've not been back since 2009, but I'd be surprised if this attitude has changed very much (although I'd be interested to hear from locals or more recent visitors); indeed, it is possibly even stronger now.

[@fil_britbunnyboi872]

@@Khayyam-vg9fw I visited in 2021. General sentiment was overall towards the UK

[@Khayyam-vg9fw]

@@fil_britbunnyboi872 Thank you for that information. It is what I would have expected.

[@tng2057]

As long as Spain having its enclaves at northern Africa, Spain has no case in claiming Gibraltar. Simple.

[@crose7412]

Spain's argument about both Ceuta and Melilla is that they were seized before Morocco came into being so therefore it has right to control the territory.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

💯

[@heycidskyja4668]

@@crose7412 Yes, Spain's claim on that land is incredibly flimsy.

[@g1u2y345]

Ceuta and Melilla are both rightful Roman clay, let’s be honest

[@S3Cs4uN8]

@@g1u2y345 So wait, do we give it to the pope now, or Turkey?

[@DudeWatIsThis]

"It was inhabited by neanderthals." Still is.

[@IAmTheOnlyLucas]

Great video Professor. Historical claims frequently prove to be an especially messy aspect of international relations. It irks me that the UN is adamant about their wishes on respecting the will of local populations, except where the local populations are of European descent.

[@James-ip8xs]

UN is ideologically captured and it's positions on many issues should be disputed.

[@veronicaroach3667]

I think it matters what the 'locals' want. They are the ones who have to deal with the implications of any changes. I suspect that on a purely human level their feelings are not based on anything really heavy duty, largely about pride in who they think they are ! And the Brits are particularly belligerent about their status IMO. I'm a Brit myself. So while the technical details might be annoying, I say leave well alone & deal with it. The very same Brits who get nervous over their ownership of places are quite happy to buy a holiday home in any of those other countries, so the arguments are a little irrational ! Of course if we take 'the locals' argument to it's ultimate conclusion we would have to listen to a lot of different groups arguing for their 'rights' in various places & governments tend to stomp on such claims to keep control !

[@thiloreichelt4199]

It migth be even that the locals' wishes are based on economic reasoning, as it was presumably for the Falkland Islands 2013. However. even that would be valid as the UN does not second guess the will od the locals.

[@TomTomicMic]

The UN is not answering the bigger questions of Ukraine, South Philippine seas and such like as Russia and China pose a bigger threat to Europe and the World at present. Spain is petulant about Gibraltar like the Argentinians are for the Falklands, they don't want to invest anything into the Island/ Peninsula they just want to take it for nowt!?!

[@leestimpson1838]

Gibraltar is obviously part of Spain, occupied by another nation.

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

I detect the usual "errors" in the story, easy to detect when Franco appears in the story. It is the UN that urges the UK to decolonize the territory and it is the UK that responds with a supposed right of the population that inhabits Gibraltar after WWII (years in which it was emptied of people, remember), and it is then that the British refusal to fulfill the international mandate, Franco, in compliance with the Treaty of Utrecht, proceeds to close the gate. And the gate only opens as a result of Spain's accession to the European Community in the 80s. That of meeting the wishes of the current inhabitants of Gibraltar (the originals, with their archives, flag, religious images, etc., were expelled and founded San Roque, remember) was just an excuse. And it is an excuse because the treaty refers to the territory, and the Spanish claim is about the territory. You can believe me when I tell you that NO ONE in Spain wants the current inhabitants of Gibraltar to have a Spanish passport. It is just a smoke screen conveniently deployed to try to justify what can no longer be justified. The negative effects of The Rock on the surrounding towns are very visible if you read the data. As you move away from The Rock the economy is better, anyone who doubts this can consult all the statistics they want. Therefore, it is feasible that tomorrow, a tough government in Spain will consider closing the gate again, complying with the Treaty of Utrecht (the only basis that legally sustains the British presence) or imposing heavy entry and exit tolls, unbearable for the weak local economy, artificially grown in recent years. Everything else, fantasies of those who long for an Empire that is long gone.

[@persona8991]

It's not a colony and it has nothing to do with fantasies of empire, you are a child.

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

@@persona8991 If it stings, as I see, it means it disinfects.

[@RedXlV]

Britain is obviously never going to give Gibraltar to Spain, just like they'll never give the Falklands to Argentina. Spain renounced their claim to Gibraltar *in perpetuity* in 1713, and there's no take-backs to such an agreement.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@RedXlV A lot can happen between now and the end of time. To say never is somewhat presumptuous don't you think ? The sun was never supposed to set on the British Empire, well who would've thought !

[@Paco-Lopez]

Acuerdos pero si los ingleses soy los estafadores mas grande que hay en este mundo y además piratas y todo porque tenéis a vuestros lado el hijo mayor de la madre patria que si no no seriáis nadie en el mundo disfruté mucho con la Eurocopa 😘😘😘

[@EdMcF1]

Spain should show good faith by (i) handing Ceuta back to Portugal, (ii) Melilla and assorted rocks to Morocco and (iii) Olivenza back to Portugal after the War of the Oranges 1801, which was left as unfinished business after the Congress of Vienna. And someone has to ask what the apes think, if they'd give up bag-snatching for a while.

[@yudeok413]

Deep lore man. DEEP.

[@briocheoleary5043]

What’s the difference between between the UK having Gibraltar. And Spain having : Parsley Island, Ceuta and Melilla

[@JamesKerLindsay]

A great question.

[@briocheoleary5043]

@@JamesKerLindsay it's always intrigued me. Geog BA Hons and fan of the channel 👍

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

@@JamesKerLindsay A great question, and when used in this discussion it is an undoubted symptom of the absence of real arguments in the discussion.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@briocheoleary5043 A lot Spain would never willingly hand over Spanish provinces to an Absolutist Monarch who uses torture and imprisonment as tools of the state and still retains the death penalty.

[@jaimendaniel5578]

Lots of differences. The history is totally different.

[@VladVexler]

Thank you so much James!

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks Vlad! I hope all is well.

[@mussajavdan8203]

Well Dr. Lindsay deleted my comments like always while we have another opinion than him . I write my opinion very politely again Dr. Its is very clear that the wish of the Gibraltar citizens have to bee respected . But it also have to come with consequences. You can not vote to stay in British colony but simultaneously have the benefit as an EU member state ,and the profits of the Spanish territory surrounding you. I believe Spain have been very soften regarding the issue . I would force a very stronger policy so you just wish to be apart of Spain

[@johnj4860]

There's no problem. Gibraltar is British. End of discussion.

[@louise_rose]

Right, but then by the same token you should accept that Crimea is part of Russia and that the line: "it was part of Ukraine when the USSR split up /because Krushschev had changed its status for a jubilee in 1954/, therefore it's part of Ukraine forever and until the Last Day" is not a very final argument. Gibraltar being a British possession is plainly due to an old war of aggression, the UK meddled in the internal affairs of Spain, and the Rock was gained and kept by force. Britain insists on keeping it mostly because the Royal Navy needs it as a base. That kind of thing is a fairly normal part of European history, and history hasn't stopped; those land changes have happened thousands of times, for all sorts of reasons. I find it completely Panglossian by Brussels and London when they insist that "no state borders in Europe can ever be changed or adjusted again, unless it be allowed by US" - are they seriously saying that the borders will remain the same everywhere for a thousand years? Really? Their OWN state borders and lands wouldn't have existed as such if it hadn't been for lots of old changes of borders, treaties, swaps of land and so on. That kind of claim has nothing to do with "protecting international law" or " safeguarding the principle of sovereignty of all countries" - it's really about a *prerogative*, a claim of control (exercised, ultimately, on behalf of Uncle Sam).

[@MadOldPete]

@@louise_rose Not necessarily an apt comparison when you consider that Crimea was part of Ukraine ten years ago, i.e. much less than a generation ago, whereas Gibraltar has been in its current state almost continuously for 300 years. In any case your argument boils down to "Why can't European borders still change?" to which the obvious answer is "Why must they change?" Obviously every change has a winner and a loser, and if those who would win can't successfully assert their argument or will over those who would lose then a change is not going to be forthcoming. Any change in borders should be assessed on a case-by-case basis, and with that in mind it's obviously deeply questionable whether steamrolling through the will of a settled population to forcibly reassign their citizenship is a hill worth dying on.

[@louise_rose]

@@MadOldPete Yes, I recognize that historical wounds can heal over time. Few people today are heavily invested in returning (all of) East Prussia to Germany,, or Schleswig- Holstein to Denmark (lost to Prussia/Germany in 1864, largely confirmed in 1919) even though these provinces were taken by force and those issues were very raw and sensitive at the time. And there are often competing historical narratives involved in this kind of thing. My argument is mostly about the claim of the EU/NATO that "After the Year Zero, no border in Europe can ever change again unless under very special conditions" - the year zero being roughly around 1945/50 in western and southern Europe and around 2000 in the east. I think that's just disingenuous, a way of moving the goalposts and trying to exploit state borders that may not have been very well thought through at the time. This "Year Zero, Game Over" claim is just a way of trying to preserve a map that was very fine and tasty for some western nations (and for the USA) When it comes to Ukraine and Crimea, the EU is trying to dress this up as a question of how "Russia broke international law by taking over Crimea" when in fact the Ukrainian state itself suffered a kind of breakdown in early 2014 and things were not always handled in a well-considered way, some things were up for grabs. The people of Crimea had expressed their wish to rejoin Russia again a couple of times before, already back in 1991; the peninsula had enjoyed a kind of "home rule" (regional autonomy) for nearly a century up till 2014, but Kiev could not be bothered to admit the question, they wanted to keep Crimea as a bargaining chip. When the EU ´(as a group) are claiming that " we are the ones who decide how to apply international law and treaties, and therefore you can never change any borders without laying the matter at OUR feet and letting us alone decide" and "Ukraine's old borders must be fully restored, there is NO alternative to this" they are just trying to claim a prerogative, and in this conflict it means prolonging the war for no use. /I'm from Sweden, and don't have any connections of work, ethnicity or family to Russia or other post-Soviet countries

[@MadOldPete]

@@louise_rose I'm English and also don't have a dog in this fight, but my observation would be that while I agree in principle with your assertion that all borders arbitrarily being set in stone after a particular date is obviously faintly absurd, any change of borders is always going to be weighed up in pragmatic terms as well as nationalistic ones. In terms of the self-determination of the people of Crimea, it does seem fairly clear that they wish to be under Russian sovereignty, but the way in which Crimea was seized should not have been accepted by the international community and should be resisted. It sets a dangerous precedent, and Russia is will no doubt use any appeasement from NATO to push for further expansion into areas with Russian minorities, being as it is a highly disingenuous and aggressive power.

[@pedrothewise2584]

thats crap.spain could cut water, power, healthcare the lot.being cocky wont get you far here, nelsons dead,spain could kick uks tiny army into orbit.

[@jyrisulin]

A very British take on Gibraltar's history. Many references to "the people" and their "wishes", but not one word about the fact that the Brits first removed the original population to make the place governable way back when. The UK, in the 1980 extracted (you can call it blackmail, if you wish) multiple concessions of Spain to allow them to join the EU on matters of Gibraltar. Just like with Hong Kong, where the Brits introduced pseudo-democracy in the 1960's (used in today's politics as if the place was some fancy beacon of freedom and liberty under the colonial rule), and Northern Ireland, filled with unionist outsiders to "perpetuate (British) home rule", this "divide and conquer" tactic has been well established modus operandi of the British state for centuries. From the partition of India, to the splitting of the peoples of the Middle-East, Central Asia, Africa, and beyond -- the world keeps on paying the price for centuries of British misrule, exploitation, looting and spite. Gibraltar was the OG/modern blue print for how to fcuk up places, territories, countries, and peoples. Next time, when you talk about "unsolvable problems", try to frame the argument in its proper historical context, because this is not the way to do it. Or, more cynically said: this is the British way of talking about history -- not a pretty sight. As to the footie match coming up. May the best team win.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Frankly, the whole of Europe is lines drawn on maps after wars and population displacement. And, as I’ve said in another comment, I might have little more sympathy for the Spanish position if it didn’t use almost exactly the same argument for why it has a right to hold on to Melilla and Ceuta. It’s about the right of people to decide their own future. So, maybe I do give a British position on the issue. But change the dispute and it could easily be a principled Spanish argument elsewhere. So, who exactly is in the right and wrong? Really, I’m happy to engage with debates, but it helps when they are framed more in terms of fundamental principles rather than a dig at a particular country’s policy. (I don’t say this as someone British, by the way. After all, I have made many videos on British colonialism. I say it as someone who doesn’t believe that prejudice is a terribly good way to make foreign policy as it opens one up to claims of hypocrisy.)

[@ab-ym3bf]

Very well said. Throughout this comment section you will notice the replies of the video maker confirm every word of your post.

[@jamiethannoo8559]

The entirety of Spain was built on land where the Spanish forced the Muslims and Jews living there to convert or leave. Why is that okay but not Gibraltar?

[@John316OBrian-cm4fj]

Exactly what I was thinking watching this ,I live in a part of Ireland that was the most planted by the British that is not ulster so I probably have a better understanding of the British history of divide and conquer and replacement of the natives who can't vote because they have been replaced by planters than the average British subject.

[@jyrisulin]

@@JamesKerLindsay I have no particular pro Spanish stance on this issue. It's complicated, as all colonial legacy issues are, even if we focus only on modern times, and present politics. Your narrative was very, um, UK centric, hence my fry reply.

[@MikeWal2]

The act of union between England and Scotland was in 1707. Therefore it was not a British fleet in 1700 when the war of the Austrian Succession started and also it was not a British fleet in 1704 (when "British fleet" was first mentioned here). In both cases it was an English fleet. Admittedly, by the time that war ended in 1711, it WAS a British fleet (if only in name only), but still...

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Yes, I know. But when trying to make a short 10-15 minute video sometimes explaining things like this takes up time and potentially confuses viewers. As I always say, every small diversion to explain a side issue often requires a long path to get back to the main story!

[@MikeWal2]

@JamesKerLindsay Understood, but this kind of thing is likely to automatically annoy all the Scots among your viewers. I'm not even a Scot but I did spend my first three school years at a Junior School in South Glasgow and thus apart from knowing how to pronounce Kirkcaldy and to couple it with Linolium, I also know that James I was in fact James VI and various other perhaps trivial facts that have stayed in my memory ever since - including the need for care when using British rather than English.

[@MikeWal2]

[In a somewhat later life I also learnt how to pronounce Cholmondeley. My father got around...]

[@flashtrash7830]

Er... the Act of Union involved adoption of all agreements except those sorted in Council.

[@MikeWal2]

@flashtrash7830 It didn't apply retroactively in making a 1700 (or 1704) English fleet a British fleet.

[@skylongskylong1982]

Woke up one day in 1969, and found the Spanish authorities had cut the telephone cables , sealed the border and were trying to starve us, so we would become part of Spain. So had a Gibraltar citizen vote with observer’s from United Nations , if we wanted to become part of Spain. The exact vote details I cannot remember, but were like 2,000 Gibraltar Citizens voted to stay under British Sovereignty. 17 Gibraltar Citizens voted to have Spanish Sovereignty. What people forget the majority of those living in Gibraltar went there to get away from Spain !

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@skylongskylong1982 Yes Franco wasn't a patient man and got fed up with the delays to follow UN recommendations.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@skylongskylong1982 I've heard that the flow is going the other way now.. From 2,000 in 1969 to 30,000 inhabitants is a mighty leap in population.

[@pedroparra1989]

@@skylongskylong1982 Pues que se vuelvan a Inglaterra

[@egosumhomovespertilionem]

Britain did not create these problems -- the EU has done everything possible to make post-Brexit relations unnecessarily difficult and complicated, and Spain has done everything possible to exploit the situation for its advantage in recovering a sovereign territory of the UK that Spain lost 300+ years ago. Let's place blame for these "difficulties" where it belongs: Spain and the EU. Period.

[@RayThackeray]

Utter and complete rubbish. It is the UK that negotiated Brexit and to become a third country. Britain ain't part of the club any more. Why Brexiters still blame the EU for Britain leaving with the hardest of hard Brexits - by choice - is beyond me.

[@egosumhomovespertilionem]

@@RayThackeray In the case of Gibraltar, Spain's bad faith is beyond obvious. Spain's only goal is to make life difficult for Britain and Gibraltarians, despite 300+ years of British sovereignty and nearly 100% opposition among Gibraltarians to reincorporation into Spain. It's called democracy and sovereignty. Spain lost a war to Britain over 300 years ago, signed a peace treaty, and they're still trying to renege on their treaty obligations and refight that war by other means.

[@2adamast]

@@egosumhomovespertilionem You mean there is a clear border between Gibraltar and the EU and Shengen

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

​@@egosumhomovespertilionemDo you mean 300 years of British occupation ? Spain has never stopped asking for it back. England had no business appropriating Spanish territory ceded by a French king in a Spanish war of succession. Dodgy deeds to put it mildly.

[@egosumhomovespertilionem]

@@user-qs3rf4hh5n interesting. You do realize that the "French king" to which you refer (Philip V/Felipe V) was the founder of the Spanish Bourbon/Borbon dynasty and is the direct ancestor of the current Spanish royal family, right? Moreover, Philip V had to renounce any claim to the French throne as part of the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713, which confirmed Britain's 1704 capture of Gibraltar. THREE HUNDRED YEARS of British sovereignty is not something that is going to go away, my friend. Britain has controlled Gibraltar (1704-2024 -- 320 years), longer than united Spain did (1462-1704 -- 242 years). A very long time, especially when 43,000+ Gibraltarians have opposed any Spanish participation in Gibraltar's government almost unanimously -- including the roughly 40% of the Gibraltar population that is of Spanish descent. And why would they support a Spanish takeover? Britain has been a mostly benevolent mother country, and has allowed the Gibraltarians to run the territory themselves with a small-scale parliamentary government. Spain has had wildly fluctuating governments from staunchly monarchist, to left-wing, borderline communist, to right-wing authoritarian dictatorship, to mildly conservative and pro-free-market, to rabidly socialist, all over the last 100 years. Spain, of course, has also suffered from all sorts of separatist movements over the last 100 years, largely because of ideological and regional ethnic tensions and the often heavy-handed policies of the central government. Given the history, it really is no wonder that sensible people would oppose "reunification" with Spain in favor of the current "occupation" by the British.

[@scorpioninpink]

The Falklands and Gibraltar have similarity. They are both disputed by a bigger Spanish Speaking country and its inhabitants both want to remain British. Sovereignty is not only about Independence. It is also about the wishes of the locals about their status.

[@MaxSafeheaD]

Funny how Britain staunchly abides by that when it suits, but when the result is in doubt it's a different story. Such as in Scotland, after the Brexit farce, and billions of barrels of oil that "mist have fallen down the back of the sofa," then Scotland is forbidden from having a say on their own status.

[@thesherbet]

In both cases, the territories are largely used as pawns in the Spanish and Argentine political landscapes to distract from ongoing internal issues as well.

[@philipcurnow7990]

In fact, this is indeed a case of size doesn't matter.

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

@@thepablykono

[@ryandanngetich2524]

@@thesherbet Yesss

[@TheFirstConcorde]

Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain in 1713 and the Gibraltarians continue to make clear they don’t favour constitutional change. Spain hasn’t a leg to stand on in their “dispute”.

[@jeffbob1776]

Compromises and concessions made during the imperial era should still be respected? By that logic Nigeria didn’t have a leg to stand on nor did any former colony. We live in an era governed by the rule of law. Gibraltar belongs to Spain it is part of their landmass.

[@santiagoalcantara3806]

The era of empire have ended. Rule of law not rule of might . I war treaty lack any legal relevance if violates territorial integrity.

[@nickd4310]

The UK has agreed to decolonize Gibraltar and is therefore legally obligated to do so. Under the 1713 treaty, the colony would then return to Spain.

[@benjauron5873]

You're applying a libertarian argument. "Everybody should just belong to whatever country they want to belong to." That doesn't interest me. Indeed, if that argument were applied to everyone in the world, there would be total chaos. The only argument that should apply here is, what would be best for NATO and the Western Europe/World? We do, after all, have a war with Russia and its axis on the horizon, and security concerns take precedence over all others. Now, I'm no expert, and I'm more than willing to change my mind on this if better evidence presents itself, but my admittedly layman's analysis is that Spain can better defend Gibraltar than Britain, and British military resources in Gibraltar would be better utilized in the Eastern Med and/or Eastern Europe. Am I wrong? Can Spain not be trusted as an ally? Do the British have some unique skill or resource that makes them uniquely qualified to administer Gibraltar? So unless you can convince me otherwise, I think the territory should go back to Spain, and those British forces should be redeployed elsewhere. Let me give you an analogy. Let's say there's a small town somewhere in Manitoba or Saskatchewan that's sovereign to the United States. About 30,000 people live there, all patriotic Americans, but more importantly, there's a huge US Army and Air Force base there... to defend the town from Canada... Dude! Canada's not a threat! Let Canada protect that place and redeploy those troops somewhere they can be useful! Like Eastern Europe or the Pacific Rim! And if the 30,000 people don't want to live in Canada, that's fine. They can move to North Dakota. I think you see my point. Like I said, I'm a layman, but from my perspective, it makes no sense for Britain to defend that rock instead of Spain, and the British forces there would be better stationed in a more strategically important place.

[@johnmb69]

@@jeffbob1776 Nigeria didn't want to remain a part of the UK, while Gibraltar does. Are you saying that after 300 years the inhabitants of the region have no say over where they live? That's longer than my country and most of those in the Americas have existed. You forget that part of that rule of law covers the will of the people too. You don't try and solve one perceived injustice by creating another.

[@stunimbus1543]

Minorca is also British by virtue of the Utrecht treaty.

[@mycellphone4437]

And Benidorm.

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

No it’s not

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

Supereded by the war of Jenkins ear !

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@stunimbus1543 Correction was. The treaty of Amiens changed all that.

[@ticnatz]

After years of wanting to, I finally got to visit Gibraltar twice in March of this year. What an interesting place.....

[@powervr]

If Gibraltar is Spain... Then Olivença is Portuguese. Spanish stoled the village in 1810. They have no rights on Olivença... It's Portuguese.

[@user-th6ip7jk2i]

Franco died in the mid 70s (1975)

[@lynnhubbard844]

I was there as a foreign university student when he died...we were asked to go traveling til things calmed down. We trained down to Gibraltar and took the ferry to Morocco...Fez, Ceuta, and Tetuan

[@danielrobertson8774]

I would say stability was brought about by NATO. As for wider European involvement in Gibraltar, it's always been clear. No clear access for the Atlantic based navies, no or very limited NATO patrols of the Mediterranean.

[@JonatanRaven]

Last I checked, Spain was part of Nato so the impact of Gibraltar in this context is irrelevant.

[@metacosmos]

Gib needs a new treaty, protecting the rights of gibraltarians to keep their culture and language, the right of the british to keep a military base and the right of spain to have at least a shared sovereignity over gib.

[@galaxyceiling4137]

Relations between Spain and the UK had never been better before Brexit. Post Brexit - the UK seems to have reignited conflicts with various countries here there and everywhere. Meanwhile, in the UK polls show that over 60% of Brits want to rejoin Europe again; and that half of the people who voted to leave, realise now that they were misled by the lies of the right politicians and right wing newspapers. The best solution is for the UK to have a 2nd referendum… one which regards rejoining Europe (fully) and to include free movement of people again. That should help to soothe any tensions that have built up over the matter and ever since the catastrophe of Brexit.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I agree. The same applies to Ireland. Brexit has done so much damage. The problem is that I’m not sure how it can be reversed. Many people may now understand it was a mistake, but will they vote to rejoin if Britain has to commit to the euro and Schengen? (Although I personally would welcome it.) Also, there’s the danger that many countries would use the opportunity to draw up a wish list of things they would want in diet to allow Britain back in. Gibraltar may become an insurmountable obstacle. Overall, I just can’t quite understand how people who voted Leave could have been so short-sighted!

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@JamesKerLindsay It is a right old mess with very few option given the twin internal and external budget/commercial deficits, the appaling state of the public services, labour shortages in crucial sectors of the economy and political constraints as a result of brexit.

[@ryandanngetich2524]

No NO NO, NO rejoining

[@marcusdosh408]

Should be returned to the spanish.....

[@darrenmurray861]

There really is no conversation until the people of Gibraltar wish for a change to their sovereignty. The sad thing is, the way UK governments have treated Gibraltarians lately, they will be happy to switch that sovereignty sooner rather than later.

[@ryandanngetich2524]

Gibraltarians will never want to switch sovereignity lets be real

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@darrenmurray861 It makes no economic sense for the UK to retain Gibraltar. It is costly to maintain and you always have the problem of refugees like Hong-Kong though in this case more like climate refugees as Spain is not a dictatorship.

[@truxton1000]

Norway and Denmark lost a lot of territory to Sweden 350 years ago, so not that much longer than Gibraltar has belonged to UK. Same as with Gibraltar those areas had belonged to Norway and Denmark since they were founded as nations, so you could argue that they are “occupied lands” and Norway and Denmark should get them back. And just disregard any referendums. So why are Norway and Denmark not demanding this? Because, unlike Spain they are grown ups that doesn’t sulk like small kinds over something that happened hundreds of years ago.

[@alicelarsson165]

Norway didn't gain real independance until 1905. My great-grandmother whom I knew even lived then. Before that they were quite subdued and bossed around by us in the Swedish-Norwegian Union, and before that by Denmark for many centuries. So basically, I think they're just humble and thankful that Sweden so mercifully even allow it's neighbours to exist today. I'd support giving Skåneland back to Denmark tho just because I feel such pity for them.

[@truxton1000]

@@alicelarsson165 Yes that's very funny. Norway between 1814 to 1905 was not really governed from Stockholm. As it had its own parliament, its own budget, state income and tax system, its own police and army, its own constitution and laws. So Norway was in reality independant already. Also remember Norway celebrate their independance day to be 17 May 1814, when they got their constitution, not when the Union with Sweden happened. Seden did not really interfere much at all with what the Norwegian Parliament decided. One change was in 1889 when Parlamentaianism was implented, meaning they stopped taking notice what the Swedish King had to say. But when the Norwegian parliament in 1904 voted to have its own consulates the Swedish did not agree. Before this it was actually not a majority in the Norwegian parliament to want independence from Sweden, that the Swedes refused to approve of Norwegian consulates changed this, and the Norwegian parliament voted in 1905 for Norwegian independence, later supported by a referendum, so that was that. The Norwegian army, especially the navy was strong enough to prevent Sweden from invade, (the swedish army was of course larger but both armied had similar training and equipment) as it would have led to a very bloody and expensive war. Also Swedish unions threatened with a general strike if an invation would take place, even the Swedish army threatened with mutiny.

[@LivingLifeAfterDeath]

The people of Gibraltar have said we are not Spains to claim nor Britains to give away…Their desires must be met like it was in the referendums that took place..it’s not just about territory but people..The people of Gibraltar are a proud people and their wishes must be met..

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

They are not subjects of law in this matter. Nobody wants them to change their passport, the discussion is about the territory.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@LivingLifeAfterDeath Indeed ! But Historic wrongs must also be addressed.

[@LivingLifeAfterDeath]

@@user-cm9pt8bo3l You mean the territory that was awarded to Britain..Where the llanito people live..indefinitely..

[@LivingLifeAfterDeath]

@@user-qs3rf4hh5n what historic wrongs would that be?..

[@expatexpat6531]

Where does Gibraltar get its water and electricity from?

[@mycellphone4437]

Desalination and a thermal plant I think.

[@benjamindejonge3624]

Who cares? Probably only the English who holds Ulster

[@asparadog]

Two desalination plants and LNG generators. Gibraltar had been embargoed by Spain for quite a while, which allowed the nation to develop self-sufficiency in these areas.

[@batcollins3714]

THe EU, Britain couldn't afford it.

[@missk1942]

What are you trying to articulate?​@@benjamindejonge3624

[@TheJalipa]

Britain has ruled Gibraltar longer than Spain Spanish Rule 1462-1704:- 242 years British Rule 1704 - 2024:- 320 years So other than being geographically close to Gibraltar, Spain shouldn’t have a claim To the Rock. It’s also hypocritical, given Spains exclaves in Morocco: Ceuta & Melilla. Spain rejects Moroccan claims to those territories outright. Even though they are geographically not part of Spain & were seized (like Gibraltar) by military conquest. Spain should respect the treaty of Utrecht and give it up

[@shakiMiki]

So?

[@crose7412]

Or Britain should de-colonise fully and give it up.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

​@@shakiMiki The original comment pointed out the hypocrisy of Spain's complaint about Gibraltar. 😭😭😭

[@asnekboi7232]

@@crose7412 By going against the wishes of the Gibraltarian people to remain British

[@TheJalipa]

@@crose7412 Have you heard of Democracy? The people of Gibraltar want to remain British. Also should not the Spanish decolonize from Africa??? Or should only the British decolonize?

[@islywynn7678]

I predict that if Britain ever wants back in the EU, Gibraltar will be Spain's price for their yes vote.

[@joshuaswart8211]

That would incite fury in Gibraltar.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

I doubt it. Claiming "the rock" is a good way for Spanish politicians to win votes. But the current situation is too good economically to not take opportunity of it in an otherwise impoverished region.

[@toffeecrisp2146]

There is no dispute, Gibralter was ceded in perpetuity. But I wouldn't be surprised if Labour give it up. They undermine the UK's longterm strategic position everytime they get in office and we pay for it for decades after.

[@EdMcF1]

When I heard the first live results, which came from Gibraltar, in the 2016 Referendum, I thought 'Wow, that's a done deal then!'.

[@nymuelovan]

Thats funny. Gibraltar is colonized by britainers 😮😅

[@krisinsaigon]

@@nymuelovanno, they are mostly from Genoa in Italy

[@nymuelovan]

@@krisinsaigon I mean its true you let some mafiosos in because of the lack of proper regulation, but there are no spanish there, so obviously nobody there wants to make Gibraltar spanish.

[@iankingsleys2818]

Then the Sunderland result came in.

[@lNewAge]

Most important detail you forgot to mention: almost all the original inhabitants of Gibraltar left due to the racial cleansing carried by the British. The current inhabitants are descent of the new inhabitants brought by the UK.

[@thostaylor]

Not really. Most of the original Spanish did leave, but were replaced by Catalans and Minorcans (24%), Genoese and Italians (20%), Portuguese (10%), Maltese, Sephardic Jews and Royalist French. Ethnic British represent only 27% of the population, which is why most Gibraltarians converse in Llanito.

[@rice4550]

@@thostaylor so op is right the original inhabitants were ethnically cleaned and Britain brought in new inhabitants

[@thostaylor]

@@rice4550 It depends on how you define ethnic cleansing. By that definition the Spanish ethnically cleansed Gibraltar when they took it from the Moors. You would also have to regard Catalans and Minorcans as not ethnically Spanish.

[@flashtrash7830]

Sounds like the Spanish Empire in central and South America.

[@bxdanny]

I hadn't realized, until seeing the map in this video, that Gibraltar is not, in fact, the very southernmost point of the Iberian Peninsula, but is in fact slightly east of it. A point in Spain a bit west of Gibraltar extends slightly further south.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Indeed!

[@jr_8292]

A good reminder that in IR not all disputes are resolved, but just perpetually managed

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Indeed. :-)

[@gustavodiniz6156]

Gibraltar = España | Malvinas = Argentina

[@sunnyjim1355]

Gibraltar was ceded to the Crown of Great Britain in perpetuity by the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. IN PERPETUITY! That means FOREVER. OK? Therefore, there is NO question of Gibraltor NOT belonging to the Crown of Great Britain, ever! It's really is THAT simple. 🙄

[@tempejkl]

The crown of Britain? You mean under personal control? Oh, that went really well for the Congo under Leopold’s rule

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@sunnyjim1355 Taken by the English and Dutch. Kept by Britain without consulting the Scots and Irish.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@sunnyjim1355 In perpetuity means "for the foreseeable future" it doesn't mean for ever as that cannot be anticipated. For instance the UK could be destroyed by the Russians or climate change might make Gibraltar uninhabitable or Gibraltar could go bankrupt or be wiped by an epidemic. There are lots of unknowns that cannot be forseen in a treaty hence the forever term's inaccuracy.

[@AnonymousBosch]

There is no problem, it’s ours, and we’re keeping it. I don’t see Spain clamouring to give up Ceuta and Melilla in Africa.

[@christophermcdonald1122]

Spain cannot legitimately demand the return of Gibraltar while simultaneously refusing to discuss Moroccan claims to Ceuta, Melilla and the Islas Chafarinas.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thanks. I agree. But Morocco’s claims to Ceuta and Melilla are undermined by the fact that it is ignoring the UN and ICJ over Western Sahara, the topic of my video this week: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKiqfpetecyXd6ssi=6arSXfVIT9k28XOc

[@javiTests]

I don't think you have addressed the main issue. There was a neutral zone, that was empty until the UK asked to put some temporary hospital tents and Spain agreed to that. But after the yellow fever issue ended, they left everything there and after that the UK unilaterally build the airport and other buildings. But the isthmus should be empty...

[@jonathanrapley147]

How can you talk about agreements when Spain turned around and sieged Gibraltar 13 times lol They constantly go on about the waters and the airport but fail to realize they have broken their own agreement.

[@javiTests]

@@jonathanrapley147 Which agreement does it say that you can't siege another territory? If I understand the siege as closing the border and not allowing anything to go through... A country is not obliged to open the borders for goods, right? If you capture a territory that is surrounded by another one, that's one of the drawbacks.

[@jmwadding]

How is it strategically important to the UK ? The UK have no more righ to Gibraltar than they have to Northerm Irealnd.

[@WhirRocks]

Great presentation

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you so much!

[@davidhorsley2717]

Spain has to accept that Gib is British by virtue of a binding international treaty signed centuries ago. Gib has not been part of Spain for centuries and its people wish to remain British and neither the UK or Gib are in the EU. The only dispute is the refusal of Spain to accept those three facts. Our new PM does not want to be the one who hands over a British territory to a foreign power against the wishes of the people who live there. The service establishment and Nato are not going to be too pleased about the risk such changes might have on the RN Dockyard at Gib.

[@adrianpulido4933]

The British are the first ones that dont respect the treaty, Utrecht says that only the castle and the waters port are given to the British but you have taken everything not only in land but also the sorrounding waters that werent given to you, even if you argue about the UN treaties of the sorrounding waters you took during the peninsular war the territories sorrounding a hospital lended to you in good faith, not only that but during the spanish civil war you illegally occupied the isthmus that never was part of the treaty of Utrecht and build an airport on it. The Major issue with Gibraltar is not that It should be spanish or not that as we have seen It can be pretty debatable but mostly It is because is the focus of a lot criminality, and bad faith of the brits as well as from us.

[@davidhorsley2717]

@@adrianpulido4933 Fair point, that is why a new agreement is necessary that allows Spanish and Gib citizens free movement between the the two territories and a better trading agreement.

[@flashtrash7830]

International law is not static and is always evolving.

[@2Gales]

Watching this video I learned that the Utrecht treaty clearly says "property" and not "sovereignty". This was shocking to me. Later, it mentions the "sale" of the property, giving Spain priority to buy it. It seems clear to me that property does not imply sovereignty, as I own property in other countries but those are still under the sovereignty of those countries. The same happens with property of states abroad, e.g. a building with land, does not imply sovereignty. Thanks for the information.

[@arfurascii2232]

"The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever." - (A) it's one sovereign yielding land to another sovereign, (B) to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever. Neither A nor B apply to your property. You are not the supreme authority over your land.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@arfurascii2232 Does that mean if Britain becomes a Republic the deal if off ?

[@arfurascii2232]

@@user-qs3rf4hh5n We can only speculate but it seems to me the republic would claim to be the 'continuator' state, with the sovereign territory, treaty obligations and memberships of international organisations etc that the UK had.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@arfurascii2232 Let's hope so, there's so much uncertainty in all fronts these days. If climate change continues apace Southern Spain including Gibraltar might become uninhabitable and the whole for ever issue in the treaty become irrelevant.

[@tullypoo]

The British government didn't afford the citizens of Hong Kong, the same right to self-determination

[@physiocrat7143]

Different treaty and they were in no position to resist China, unfortunately.

[@ryandanngetich2524]

@@physiocrat7143 No it was mainly the t5reaty nothing else. Plus many HKs were happy to be free of British status

[@joshuaabell2033]

And then why the Hongkongers would wish to be under the biritish few years after they were returned under mainland china ??? The umbrella movements depicted reality Hong Kong would love to be under the British rule

[@willoke8]

Leaving the EU is the worst decision we've made

[@JamesKerLindsay]

I completely agree.

[@cjb8010]

Spain should get its own house in order before clamoring for lands to be “returned.” Doesn’t Spain still have two enclaves in Africa? And doesn’t Catalonia want out of Spain?

[@martinharnevie]

100% for the people of Gibraltar to decide. This is the people principle rule, not only in the Commonwealth but also throughout the World. Not decided in Madrid and London.

[@thepablyko]

give it back and go home

[@ckunify]

@@martinharnevie That is simply biased. England had centuries to colonize Gibraltar and push English culture. Just an election would not be fair, but I agree they should be considered since they are the people who will be affected the most.

[@martinharnevie]

@@ckunify It's biased bamboozle the people of the land that they should be "biased". And it's entirely up to the people of the land whether or not they're happy with their history or if their history should be "undone". The same goes for Taiwan, Catalonia, Scotland, Ceuta, Mellila, St Lucia, Malta, Guernesey, Sarawak, Bermuda, Tibet, Sichuan, East Mongolia, Crimea etc etc. In the modern world, respecting basic human rights, the people of the land shall decide over the land, and be the jury of the governance of the land.

[@martinharnevie]

@@thepablyko The people of the land own the land. Same goes for Ceuta, Melilla and Catalonia and other lands around the world.

[@davidrubioroldan]

Gibraltar no tiene que votar es una colonia y como tal no puede

[@msbayramoglu1]

Excellent work as always very informative and historically helpful thank you Professor James Ker-Lindsay

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you!

[@mussajavdan8203]

Well Dr. Lindsay deleted my comments like always while we have another opinion than him . I write my opinion very politely again Dr. Its is very clear that the wish of the Gibraltar citizens have to bee respected . But it also have to come with consequences. You can not vote to stay in British colony but simultaneously have the benefit as an EU member state ,and the profits of the Spanish territory surrounding you. I believe Spain have been very soften regarding the issue . I would force a very stronger policy so you just wish to be apart of Spain

[@farmerpete6274]

There is no problem as far as Gibraltar is concerned - the problem is with Spain. and or the E.U. And the 'conflict' has not been going on for 300 years...

[@burtlangoustine1]

Those who hold it, may keep it.

[@chrisrw0]

It isn't unsolvable/insoluble. Gibraltar is British and the inhabitants fiercely want it to stay that way. Once Spain accepts that, all the issues are solvable/soluble.

[@kyoto7323]

Gibraltar is Spanish and it's considered as a colony by the United Nations, once UK accepts that and descolonize that all the issues are solved.

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

@@kyoto7323Gibraltar is British not Spanish look it up

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

@@kyoto7323you are so wrong is fake

[@kyoto7323]

@@louisbeerreviews8964 No it's not, it's recognized as a colony you can check it by yourself

[@rice4550]

i mean its hard for Spain to accept that a population planted there by Britain to cement Britain's claim to Gibraltar voted to remain with Britain

[@YvonTripper]

This claim by Spain makes no sense in 2024. They haven't controlled it for 300 years. Gibraltar creates far more jobs for Spaniards in neighbouring towns as a British autonomous territory than it ever could as a small Spanish coastal town. It isn't militarily strategic anymore and anyway, Spain and the UK are miliary allies. The idea that somehow Spain is a victim of colonialism seems a little disingenuous considering it was one of the world's biggest colonizers and still controls colonies in Morocco. This claim by Spain may scratch a nationalistic itch but it does Spain more harm than good to continue it.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@YvonTripper Ceuta and Melilla are not colonies of Spain and you should know that already.

[@YvonTripper]

@@user-qs3rf4hh5n LoL they aren't colonies they are just colonized areas full of a colonising power's citizens on a colonised country's land ;)

[@bjdon99]

The Brits and French each have all these little bits of Empire spread out over the globe, that every now and then pop up as an issue.

[@castlerock58]

Spain ceded it to Britain, by treaty, hundreds of years ago. Spain has no legitimate claim to it. Britain should leave it up to the people who live there.

[@Richard1A2B]

Another very informative video, thank you. It would be interesting to know the make-up of the Gibraltarian population. How many are ethnecially Gibraltarian and how many are British from Britain? Like Northern Ireland has a high planter decendency, which influences the Irish unification debate today. Although opinion polls in Gibraltar in the high 90's persentage-wise are pretty conclusive. It would still be interesting to know the population make-up nonetheless.

[@krisinsaigon]

They are from Genoa a lot of them, I think there are Maltese too

[@TomTomicMic]

If they are legal residents of Gibraltar it makes little difference, Spain would just take the vote from the third house away from a white house if it meant they could take it over, it's a hill of beans and has no legitimacy of how the Gibraltar population is currently made up!?!

[@user-jp1ge5nb2f]

@@krisinsaigon I can't remember where I heard it but I was under the impression that most Gibraltans are not descended from "British" emigrants and that the majority are from various places in the Mediterranean. A legacy of the British imperial possessions and military actions over the centuries. The Maltese rings a bell. I wasn't aware of the Genoan connection but I wouldn't be surprised.

[@krisinsaigon]

@@user-jp1ge5nb2f I actually went there about 25 years ago when I went to Morocco on holiday, and the people didn’t look ethnically British.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@krisinsaigon Of course not the British from Great Britain would've been the navy ratings and permanent army soldiers stationed there. The civilian population were from other parts of the Empire. For the British born civilians Gibraltar was not an attractive location, insalubrios and with few amenities. It wasn't until the end of the WWII that conditions improved and the population grew.

[@Nemo-vg7sr]

Maybe it's a bit shocking nowadays but what about following international law for a change? As you've mentioned in passing the UN has long identified Gibraltar as a territory to be decolonised and returned to Spain. It's not a matter for the Gibraltarians to decide more than for the Spaniards or the Brits. Decolonisation and return to Spain is the ultimate aim under internationla law for obvious geographical and historical reasons.

[@flashtrash7830]

Those "passing" measures at the UN you refer to were not adopted by the UK (each country has a choice.) But Spain did adopt the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea gives the UK Gov rights over the Isthmus.

[@JJ-wj6un]

Very insightful and interesting. Learning a lot to understand the history of this tiny plot of island.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Thank you so much!

[@boxerfencer]

What negotiations are needed? Gibraltar is Spanish, historically and by agreement should have been transfered back to Spain years ago! Are the English native to Gibraltar?

[@geoffpoole483]

Ceuta and Melilla. I suggest you ask Gibraltarians. You may want to ask the Basques and Catalans if they want to remain in Spain.

[@McLarry88]

@@geoffpoole483 Ceuta and Melilla is Spain for the same time as Granada or Malaga, even before the Muslim conquest there was a Visigoth count called Count Julian. They belonged to Spain before Morocco and the Moroccan monarchy existed. Gibraltar is literally a Territory stolen by England in a war they did not win. A territory where they expelled the Spanish population to colonize it.

[@boxerfencer]

@@geoffpoole483 as for the elites, why would you want to ask people benefitting from the colonialist rule if they want back to Spain? They stand to lose if the area transfers back to Spain, and not only them but as I understand it, there's lots of large scale criminal activity, not the least of which is drug smuggling that goes through Gibraltar, that has vented interest in maintaining the status quo. As for the common folk, why would they want to change things too? As it stands now, there's no reason to reintegrate into Spain, as they're allowed to cross the border as they like to work as migrant workers withOUT being citizens of the country they extract wealth from. Im not even sure they pay taxes back into Spain, the economy they leach from. Clearly, there's no incentive to correct things when your whole establishment is corrupt from top down. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

[@DjWellDressedMan]

UK should first worry about all of the Crap etc. in the Rivers and Oceans of the UK after 100% Water Privatization.

[@user-qs3rf4hh5n]

@@DjWellDressedMan Now we're talking !

[@juanjosegonzalezdenevado1922]

No habrá ningún perdón a Gibraltar y a sus colonos llevados por los británicos No habrá caprichos y consentimientos, Gran Bretaña salió de la Unión Europea Gibraltar está fuera

[@nickhockings443]

It doesn't need a solution. The people of Gibraltar want to keep the status quo. Spain wants to keep its exclaves on the coast of Morrocco.

[@FairyCRat]

Cases like Gibraltar and the Falklands are quite frustrating. The people have spoken loud and clear that they want to remain with the UK, but that doesn't stop the other country from bringing up their historical control of the areas, even though the modern locals don't even descend from the people who used to live there back then.

[@John316OBrian-cm4fj]

@FairyCRat have you heard of the terms "plantation "and "replacement " I'm irish so I'm an expert

[@xenopug6390]

​@@John316OBrian-cm4fjthat isn't really relevant. If the people of Gibraltar want it to remain as it is, who are you to deny them that right simply because 300 years ago their distant ancestors didn't live there?

[@krisinsaigon]

@@John316OBrian-cm4fjexpert because your people took Ireland from its inhabitants and colonized it and now won’t return it?

[@yipzoe3865]

​@@John316OBrian-cm4fjdo you know that there are 5 millon of Irish offsprings in the UK, they may technically vote the south Ireland back to UK

[@yipzoe3865]

​​@@krisinsaigon​​ do you know that there are 5 millon of Irish offsprings in the UK, they may technically vote the south Ireland back to UK