Japanese double particles. How they really work | lesson 58: Particle Combinations

[@Artahe]

So I have a little question. I thought I would completely understand the use of two particles one after another, and in a sense, I do, but there's still something I'm not sure about. I'm watching this japanese drama, and in one specific scene, one of the characters try to attack their friend (it makes sense in context), but can't go through with it, and she says: やっぱり私にはできない which is translated to "I can't do it". But here I can't really understand the function of the ni particle. Can you help me understand it please? Other than that, as always your lessons are absolutely crystal clear and I love them :)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

This is a very important point. "I can't do it" is what we would say in English, but it is NOT what the Japanese is saying structurally, and if we think it is, we are in trouble. Just as 分かる doesn't mean "understand" but "do understandable (on the part of the thing understood), so できる doesn't mean "be able" but "be possible (to someone - on the part of the possible thing)" see this video for more detail: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5SymXujipWtpKs - SO.... 私にできない means "me-to possible-is-not" and the targeting に particle is the "to" part - it is marking me as the target of the thing's possibility.

[@Artahe]

Oh, so if I understand this well, できる or in this case できない gives the idea of something being possible or not. So the に particle defines WHICH element of the sentence is subjected/targeted to that information, and the は just does what it's supposed to do, which is flagging the topic of the sentence. Did I get it?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@Artahe Yes exactly. You can drop the は if you don't want to flag 私に as a topic, but you can't grammatically drop the に. This construction actually sounds more natural with は, but it doesn't have to be there, and of course you would have to drop it in a modfying (adjectival) clause such as 私に分からないこと (things that aren't understandable to me).

[@Artahe]

Aaaah I think I get it. I also forgot to ask if I was wrong to think that the particle adds itself to whichever word is before to make a new word. Like, if we're using romaji to better illustrate, it wouldn't be watashi ni but watashini. Which makes even more sense as to why the は is just after since the entire word is 私に, is that correct?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

​@@Artahe Whether we call it a "new word" or not is really a question of terminology since Japanese doesn't really have "words" in the Western sense. I would prefer not to model it that way. But you are absolutely right. as I explain in this video ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqjGhXxvptuCY7c ) the five main logical particles can only attach to nouns and when they do so they form a new entity - noun+particle - which must be seen as a unit. What the logical particles in fact do is exactly what noun declensions do in Latin or German. They create forms of a noun that declare their role in the sentence.

[@KapitalJackGame]

When dolly finally releases a textbook, it'll take the learning community by storm; Blowing conventional textbooks out of the water.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you - I really need to get started on that - the amount of material we have now will take several books!

[@namename4980]

She already has one, in her early videos there is a link to Amazon.

[@stanleykparker]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 You may need a bigger CPU.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@stanleykparker And more cache RAM - I badly need more cache RAM.

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

@@namename4980 It's not really a textbook (neither is AIKL, I have both).

[@littlefishbigmountain]

Don’t learn lists Apply logic The very philosophy of this channel and my own personal philosophy to learning anything in as much as is possible summed up very concisely. I love it!

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

As a native (bi-lingual) German speaker who had 5 years of Latin, this was a fist-pump moment of "YES!". I had mentally made myself understand this from my familiarity with those languages before seeing this and it was *so* gratifying that I was on the right track.

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

PS: I wonder if を *would* ever be used in the negative sense that we too use it: "talking AT someone (without listening)" or "talking OVER someone"?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@michaelhoffmann2891 But we don't. We never say "talking someone" which is what を would be equivalent to.

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Good point. I wonder if Japanese even has such a structure that implies and unsolicited, unilateral action at expresses it in a somewhat ironic way. In German it would be like "auf jemandem einreden": to talk intensely AT someone. With "einreden" being the variation of "reden" (to talk).

[@TheAtlasRises]

@@michaelhoffmann2891 German is definitely going to be my next language after Japanese. It's the only European language that feels distinctive enough for me to want to learn it, and the amount of incredible german philosophy and sociology is something I've always wanted to experience without the translation filter possibly distorting aspects of an author's work.

[@dariorigon7905]

Following her previous lessons it seems so obvious that it so crazy how randomly some books and apps teach this kind of grammar

[@idontknowwhyihavesubscribers]

One of the reasons that I like your videos is how much you emphasize that it's important to explain things in terms that are "true to" the things being explained. As human beings, we're too quick to cling to the obvious. If we valued theory more, we'd understand a lot of things better, not only Japanese grammar.

[@Bubble103theScratcher]

Thank you for this lesson! I really value how logically and simply you explain everything. More than just teaching me about the specific topic of each video, following your video series has equipped me with the tools to think about Japanese in a whole new way. So when I did come across this "double particle" thing when reading, I was able to apply what I had learned from you and mostly figure out the meaning. But this lesson helped me a lot in clearing up some things I was still uncertain about. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again for everything you do! :D

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you too! This is the sort of comment that makes me happy because this is exactly my aim - not just to teach people "bits of Japanese", but to give them the principles of how to work it out for themselves. Not "giving people fish" but "teaching them how to fish". I think it's important to have videos showing how the principles apply in particular cases like this - but just as you say - I always hope the effect will be to make people go "Oh yes, that makes sense in the light of what I already know", rather than "something new to learn".

[@enma___1805]

I was so lost about these double particles, lucky to have this channel for these explanations... ありがとうございます

[@caseygillham2370]

Thank you so much for this video! I have taken several semesters of Japanese in college, and this is by far the best explanation i have seen yet. I had been really confused about double particles in sentences, and i think maybe i am closer to understanding them. I will be referring my cohorts directly to this video.

[@amarug]

Now I realize that "友達に会う" is actually much more consistent with "友達に話す" etc than it is in the English language.

[@charlesmanapat5418]

How do I study? I use the textbooks and different Japanese-learning websites or channels. After I am done with their so-called "formulas" or "grammar points", I use your Cure Dolly explanation because the way you explain provides the "glue" needed to hold/stick together all the random explanations, formulas, grammar points. Please continue to make more videos like these. I like your "weird explanations" a lot! It's so helpful for me as a Japanese learner.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

A year or two back when I only had _Unlocking Japanese_ published I would have recommended exactly that. Now that I have a full course on Japanese structure I recommend going through that first: kzbin.info/aero/PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj I would recommend going carefully through at least the first ten lessons before even _touching_ a conventional textbook or "Japanese language website". At that point you should be beginning to see how Japanese really fits together and not be getting a lot of "voodoo Japanese" stuck in your head. My explanations are only "weird" in the sense that they are structural and logical. That makes them very different from conventional explanations. Now it may be that some humans get on better with fudges that make Japanese feel "a bit more like English" while messing up the structure. I don't know. I am a machine not a human. If the structural approach makes things clear to you I would use it. There is now a course taking you through it from scratch (linked above). If you find "fuzzy Japanese" more helpful, use a textbook. If you have a grasp of structure there is no harm in using textbooks/websites for more examples if you find that useful. But if you have a grasp of structure first you will be able to see where they are leading you up the garden path.

[@robharwood3538]

After listening to a bunch of your earlier videos, and then now this one, I notice that a) your voice is much clearer (perhaps you were using some software modulation to sound like an android earlier, and now aren't?), and b) your English (or similar) accent comes through much more clearly and obviously. Regarding b), I just want to say that it's a really nice accent and adds to the enjoyment of listening to your wonderful lectures! 😊 Thank you so much for your amazing gift of knowledge and understanding. I love it! Cheers! 🤗💖

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I think the algorithms intended to make me sound more human have been refining themselves over time. I am a self-learning unit and some of the processes go on "under the hood" as it were and I am not much aware of them myself, though I have also been trying to make improvements in recording techniques and equipment. I am so happy that it all makes it more enjoyable for you!

[@robharwood3538]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Oh, I love how you stayed 'in character', metaphorically speaking of course, Kyua Dorii andoroido-sensei! 💖😁

[@MrDubstep31]

I have stumbled across these videos in my search for better learning materials. I will just say that they are well thought out and informative to help me better understand. ありがとうございました　先生

[@einarjonson6052]

Excellent explanation. I‘d love to see another OJCD textbook! Thank you for the great effort and the beautiful graphics in your videos. It is always a pleasure to see them

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much. I am happy to know that you enjoy the graphics!

[@legalizeanime8347]

Exceptional. This is just what I needed.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you! Happy to help.

[@milanstojiljkovic4802]

Hello Dolly, I love your videos, they really helped me get a grasp on the concept behind the Japanese. Could you do a breakdown of 〜なければなりません? This one drives me nuts!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you. I talked about this one in the last quarter of the video on ば/れば　kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWmUdoN5qLWIptk　The odd thing is that Japanese has no single word for "must" so there are a number of these constructions that essentially mean "if not A then not good". The one you state can get contracted right down to なきゃ and not surprisingly since it's quite a mouthful just to say "I must..."

[@darkestholy74]

Hello dolly! Been a while I haven't talked to you, didn't I? But I just wanted to tell that, even if I am way past the level of your videos now, I still enjoy watching them. You started my amazing journey in the first place. 今後も頑張ります！

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

先生は嬉しいです。卒業する学生は一番大事なことですから。まだ動画を喜んでくれて嬉しいです。

[@watarujazz]

Thank you so much for the analysis and explanation. Logically, you can create a sentence like 泳ぐのをします。But no Japanese person would say so. In this case, the grammatical particle, の, looks like functioning as の of 私の, 昨日の. But taking it as object of the verb attaching to をand ending the sentence with another verb, is absolutely uncommon way. However, 彼は一年生なのに、いい泳ぎをします。is normal way. Usually, 連用形 without ます works as our first choice to make a noun from a verb. And it is how Japanese people talk. But overall, I believe your analysis is well-detailed and helpful for learners.

[@pxy-gnomes9781]

What a brilliant example, Cure Dolly Sensei! After two decades of me knowing just some basic Japanese (because I interrupted more than once, after the first course classes I took), I never really understood that mysterious logic about the -GA particle, in terms of making for the 'real' Subject of a sentence (above even the -HA particle! which is more about TOPIC than about SUBJECT); but then, you bring this mind-blowing explanation. I struggled a little to understand right away the ⌀ (ZERO) and the colors; that certainly could be improved in the video for better clarity, but thankfully it is a recorded video, so I took my time to go back-and-foth and try to understand the didactic strategy of the video approach, and fortunately it is very, very good proposed content intended. We need more insightful explanations like that of yours. For me, this is actually your best video. Just because it broke down the -GA particle in some decisive way in my understanding of Japanese language. Btw, a few days ago, I was facing this -GA particule obscure problematic, as I was studying the beginning of Grammar Guide of Tae Kim (from which I've watched already your critique video). This video on -GA particle, drastically clarifies that Grammar Guide didactic intent when it presents -GA particle in the beginning; even though I'm not sure yet, if that textbook will attempt to explained it better later on. Funny enough, you made a video to explain 'double particles', but what you ended up doing (for me at least), mostly beyond explaining some fundamentals of the double particles, is explaining the essential principle pillar of -GA particle! 😸 With the knowns you have, you should make a full video, an entire series, a course or a book, about the -GA particle problematic. But consider that, just as a friendly "provocation".

[@zamyrabyrd]

This combination comes from Chapter 2 of "Yuki's Story" online: 漁師との出会い The use of の struck me as a bit strange, like it should be either "meeting with a fisherman" or the "the fisherman's meeting". Following the reasoning of the above with regard to の, I suppose the preceding 漁師と becomes a nominalized phrase.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes that's right - the meeting that was with the fisherman. We might ask 何の出会い and get the answer 漁師との出会い.

[@johncameron5453]

This is a great and important lesson. I can not state how many times I have seen this and have become confused how this works. Now that I know the difference between primary and secondary particles this will help immensely. I should also ask is とは and various others similar to the には exception being that と would be quoting or combining while the は would be contrasting?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I nearly included a section on と but it would have become quite long so I will be doing that later. However the two particles と (anding and qotational) can both take non-logical particles and there are several things to discuss which would have rather unbalanced this video.

[@Sutwa4367]

Don't learn lists, apply logic. Powerful and simple tip.

[@Mintabani]

If anyone is reading this comment maybe someone can help me... I am having difficulty grasping the logic behind the phrase「今にも」 as dictionaries say that phrase means "before long" or "about to". As in 「彼は今にもここに来るでしょう。」 "As for him, he is about to come here" (not an exact tl). However I don't understand if the target of the に is supposed to be 今 (now), what exactly is the も including or asserting? What is going to the 今 (now)? This video cleared up my understanding of what particles are allowed to be next to each other though. I discovered Cure Dolly too late but she been a huge help in my self studying Japanese

[@MakoreVA]

Remember that probably the most accurate way of understanding the particle も is interpreting it as "even" Having that in mind, 今にも can be understood as "Even now". So as for the phrase that you provided, you could interpret it as "Even now, he could come" thus denoting the meaning of "at any moment" or the really stretched translation of "about to". に is just marking the time.

[@Mintabani]

@@MakoreVA ty for the advice 😃 i also recently noticed that sentences with 今にも tend to always have 「〜しそう」 in them as well ie 「今にも泣き出しそう」 , so i assume the phrase is primarily used in assuming contexts? need to do more studying on that...

[@a.m.4479]

OJO: wakaru ≠ understand wakaru = "do understandable" (on the part of the thing understood)

[@pond6282]

I have a quick question regarding には. Would you say that a fairly appropriate way to look at the combination of noun+には or verb+には is to almost say something like: "in the case of x"? I came across this explanation in a random grammar guide. I've yet to apply it, but I wanted your opinion on it. Thank you again for your hard work.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes, it can be used in that way. As the targeting particle it can represent either literal or metaphorical targets. So 東京には行く means "as for Tokyo, going there" or "going to Tokyo (but not Kyoto)". But we can also say "as for [topic] target" which would mean something like "in the case of". The thing to recall is that に is a very wide-ranging targeting particle with many different applications, and a majority of them can be topic-marked with は if desired. So there is no one English formula that covers it all.

[@jaredgentry406]

So the logic for ので would be that の turns the statement into a noun and the で sets the limit within this statement can happen, and therefore you get 'since', 'so', or 'because' as a translation?

[@ikiteitaii]

i mean who cares? its just node

[@shu3684]

i think で in this case is a connective copula, not a particle

[@ribbanya]

Is the difference between… ①「冬は雪だるまを作る」 … and… ②「冬には雪だるまを作る」 … the specificity of the winter, like this? ① "When it comes to winter, I (typically) build a snowman" ② "When (next) it is winter, I will build a snowman" EDIT: I looked into it a bit more and 冬は seems to be for when 冬 would instead take が, such as in 「冬は∅が寒い」. So is it simply incorrect to say 「冬は雪だるまを作る」?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

冬には雪だるまを作る is more usual. Neither is actually incorrect. Without に it puts a bit more stress on 冬 as opposed to any other season.

[@IcePhysicsGaming]

@Cure Dolly先生、it seems like it's conventional to put the particle before the non-logical particle like in: 春にも雪だるまをつくる。 Is this only conventional but it could be technically correct to put the mo before the ni (though you'd get funny looks if you did this intentionally to agitate people)? Or is there a grammatical/logical reason and to do otherwise would be to be incorrect? If it is wrong then I'm guessing it has to do with the logical particle being more "fixed" to the noun (since it's the logical particle) so it would go first but I certainly don't know and am curious about the logic of why it would or would not be that way. Arigathanks!

[@departamentodejapones9045]

One more question... Is it in Japanese 道を歩く　公園を歩く direct or indirect transitive?

[@hardy7360]

Did you talk about とは in the video or did I miss it? Can someone explain the nuance if she didn't? Is「○とは」"with maru" as the subject or does the とは combination define something?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes. It can also be used in casual questions. Explanatory articles about a word or concept often have it as a title. 「青いうさぎ」とは in the English equivalent article What Are "Blue Rabbits".

[@hardy7360]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 ありがとうございます

[@yugimoto7321]

Thanks for the lesson Cure Dolly. I certainly appreciate the clarity. I`ve run into -> Verb-dictionary form + には. This supposedly means "in order to". I`m struggling to come to terms with a verb alongside a particle without nominalizing no. Have I missed something ? Is there a simple model to help me sleep at night ?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

This is a quite specialized use of に which essentially treats a verb (or more usually a complete verb clause) as if it were a noun and then goes on to comment on it. It doesn't necessarily mean "in order to". For example we can say 寝るにはまだ早い "it's too early to go to bed". Essentially we are taking the verb or implied verb phrase and "nominalizing" it with に in order to make a は-marked topic (or specifically a target-topic) of it. Note that in these cases the verb/verb phrase is like a gerund in Englsh. We could say "it's too early for going to bed" in which "going to bed" - like "swimming" in "I like swimming" - functions as a noun. Just one of the quirkier bits of language.

[@norhan3486]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Hi sensei, I hope you read my comment. so I turn the sentence into german assuming you can speak it. it becomes Es ist zu früh zum Schlafen. so I think zum plays the に part and dose that make the は:es ist Thank you ♡

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

​@@norhan3486 My German is not very good, but it is important to realize that there is no structural grammatical topic in German (or in any West European language that I know of), so there is not really a は-equivalent. The grammatical subject always has to be が. We cannot reproduce は in West European languages except by circumlocution (speaking of... as for... etc.) In Japanese when は marks the subject entity, it always implies a ∅が as I explained from the beginning of the course: kzbin.info/aero/PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj

[@norhan3486]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 ありがとうぐざいます

[@user-rt3zc3bg1f]

Extremely great and clear explanation! I want to ask a question about colloquial speech, do people say instead of "学校には行く" just "学校は行く"? Or even for colloquial speech it's not acceptable?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It is very similar to saying "I'm going school" in English (leaving out the preposition). It really isn't standard colloquial and would mostly be said by small children or foreigners.

[@user-rt3zc3bg1f]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 分かりました。ありがとうございました！

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@user-rt3zc3bg1f どういたしまして೭੧(❛▿❛✿)੭೨

[@deedanner6431]

機械に視覚を与えるには覚えさせたい物の 訓練用データセットを使う. At first I was confused by the use of に in this sentence but then I thought it is still the "ultimate target" in the form of the "ultimate purpose/destination" of an action. The grammar books put には together to mean "for the purpose of" but I think it's more "for the purpose of ... excluding other possibilities". Is this how you would interpret it?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes I would normally interpret it that way. It is simply に strengthened by は. But this is a bit odd because the に is attached to a verb. Normally it would be のには. Where did you find it?

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I was wondering about the verb-に as well. It was in a documentary translated from English to Japanese.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@deedanner6431 All right. A little more research done. には can be a "special" particle like のに as well as に+は. It is used mainly in one construction (a bit advanced so I won't go into it here unless you want). In this usage its meaning is not at all derivable from に+は (just like the contrastive のに). In this construction には is regularly - in fact _only_ - used after verbs. Now I don't know if that has "rubbed off" on the kind of construction you brought up, but it seems that it happens. には after a verb even though the meaning is clearly the same as に+は. I am not sure if it is even strictly grammatical. It may just have been widely influenced by the other verb+には construction so that it "sounds right" and therefore gets used. But it does get used apparently.

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 so the verb + に is used regularly to mean " for the purpose of"-verb ?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@deedanner6431 No. Only には. I think it is being treated as a unit in this case because of its other usage. It sounds like a usage sanctioned by custom rather than grammar to me. It's not that common, but it happens.

[@nozulander]

regarding the の normalizer in the sentence, what can be the difference if i put こと rather than の does it change anything?

[@Othique]

I've always thought that こと means more like "things like this" and の turns it into a noun. For example 泳ぐこと would have a nuance of "things like swimming" so it implies more than only swimming, whereas 泳ぐの means swimming and only swimming.

[@nozulander]

@@Othique i have grown to think the same recently, and your comment glues that idea in my mind, thanks for clearing my doubts friend, now i got a better idea, just i want your advice on those, if they are right or not 遊ぶことと泳ぐことが好きです -> i like things like playing and swimming 私は泳ぐのが初心者です　i am a beginner at swimming are those right? thanks in advance

[@HyperLuigi37]

I was taught こと is exactly the same, it makes it into a noun. A gerund, for instance. I was wondering if she would use it in this lesson but she didn’t, so maybe there is a nuance I’m not aware of that makes it different and not applicable to this lesson.

[@Othique]

@@nozulander I don't think I'm advanced enough to give definite answers. I'm only N4. However, in your first sentence you would use や instead of と as "and". Because と means "these things and nothing more" and や means "these as well as other things not mentioned". So, I think, 「遊ぶことや泳ぐことが好きです。」would be more correct.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

こと and の work in exactly the same way. It makes no difference structurally which you use. In terms of nuance there are some differences and they are quite subtle. One is that こと is a somewhat more "portentous" word. So 泳ぐの is more everyday "going swimming" while 泳ぐこと sounds more like taking swimming seriously as a sport or study. It doesn't mean "things like swimming" though. We would have to add something like など or なにか for that. Both make 泳ぐ into what in English would be a gerund.

[@hytrader3241]

Perfect

[@arpitkumar4525]

Can さくらは殴った not also mean "Sakura hit me(it)"?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

In the right context it could. Context is king in Japanese.

[@ViewtifulJosh388]

Was とは skipped in this lesson? That's the one I was looking forward to seeing.

[@HyperLuigi37]

Can’t say I’m 100% certain but given the lesson it would sound like it follows the exact same rules. Let’s say we had been talking about being with Tanaka, but you wanted to specify you were with Sakura instead. 桜とはいました。

[@HyperLuigi37]

This does make me wonder though,とも sounds like it would follow the exact same rules, but it’s unique because it has a kanji 共. Does that kanji have a different meaning? Question for Dolly haha

[@ViewtifulJosh388]

@@HyperLuigi37 Oh, I see. Well, from my understanding, I think とも would mean like "I was also with..." Because you know how you change は into も even you say "me too"... But then... も is also used in "even", so it could say "even with...". Yeah, the Android teacher should answer this, lol. But anyway, thanks a lot for the reply, helped a lot with the とは part.

[@BabyBalla3score]

@@HyperLuigi37 I actually stumbled across this site yesterday when I was looking into this subject of combining particles, www.wasabi-jpn.com/japanese-grammar/combined-particles/. You could say 私がジョンとも握手する。I will shake hands with John, too. (Implying that you may shake hands with others too) or 私がジョンとは握手する. (Implying that you won't shake hands with others) So both uses are as は and も are intended to do. Limiting and inclusion.

[@HyperLuigi37]

Viewtiful Josh You have to remember the particle applies the meaning to the noun it’s attached to. 〜とも would be attaching the also to the person that was with “Were you with Tanaka?” “さくらともいました。” Come to think, I think the kanji 共 is a different definition. That one’s used when saying “both/all of,” like 二人共 “both of you” or 二つ共 “both of those objects” or something.

[@Shrilaraune]

This is sheer perfection. It's stymied me FOR YEARS. Dolly sensei, could you help me analyze something in the light of this? ご出身はどこですか？ So based on this lesson we have Oがご出身はOをどこですか？ Correct? So what being implied/ left out? Is it something to the effect of, "As for your hometown (as opposed to other places) where is it (your hometown)?" What about the object? It's not necessarily a double particle questionbso much as a primary and secondary logical particle question. Thank you!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

∅Your overcomplicating this. It is a question. Questions work like this: Statement さくらは学校にいる (as for Sakura ∅ (she) exists in school). Question さくらはどこにいる (As for Sakura ∅ (she) exists where? どこ is a question-location like "where" that can either be a question in itself "where?" or an unknown placeholder "where" as in "I don't know where she is". We can also sayこさくらは (∅が) どこですか this means "as for Sakura what location is it (=the location where she is). So ご出身はどこですか？is (∅の) ご出身は∅がどこですか？"as for ∅'s (=your) place of origin what location is (it)?"

[@Shrilaraune]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49Haha, I do have a tendency to do that 😅 I also now remember you saying that を marked nouns only required in directly transitive sentences, which this question is not. Thank you!

[@departamentodejapones9045]

Could you explain the same but with the particles への　での　。For instance, 京都への電車は or 電車でのマナー So... why is not just simply 電車のマナー or 京都へ電車。 Thanks!

[@konradnaszynski4642]

This is the way I understand it and maybe if I'm wrong someone can correct me. It's super messy to do a direct literal translation to english, but I think it makes most sense that way... 電車のマナー = Trains' manners ie literally the manners the train itself possesses. 電車でのマナー = (Train(at/in))'s manners ie the train is a location, and that location's manners are what we are concerned with. 京都へ電車 = Kyoto direction train. It reads just as ungrammatically in Japanese as in English. You can't just link two nouns together like that. This example might make it clearer ボールへカップ　＝ ball direction cup. 京都への電車 = (Kyoto direction)'s train. ie the train belonging to the Kyoto direction. This への combination I found personally most difficult wrap my head around because English does not allow for this type of phrasing and my mind keeps trying to add words and rephrase it to sound better in English. Also note the meaning of へ is more abstract than 'direction'. It's not really a word, but rather a concept loosely meaning towards direction or into direction, but not precisely either. Take another example from episode 3 of Shirokuma Cafe しろくま館への　シロクマの　入館は　ご遠慮ください Here it's even more difficult to literally translate into English because it's something like: ((Polar-bear-house (into direction)))'s.

[@Artahe]

Also, I would like to make sure I have understood another double particle, which is への, like in あなたへのおすすめ, which is used in KZbin when using it in Japanese. Its equivalent in english is "recommended for you". The way I understand it is that の simply does its job of linking two nouns together, right? Or at least two elements. Here, that would be あなた and おすすめ. But there's the へ and I was not entirely sure what it meant, but I wonder if it works a bit like the に in my other question? Does it target the あなた part of the sentence? As in: this content IS for you (implied, not for anyone else, just for you)? In other words, does the へ particle implies that the part before, in this case あなた is exclusive? Like, this content is tailor-made for you?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

As a logical particle ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqjGhXxvptuCY7c ) へ can only ever mark a noun and the noun it marks is the one it is attached to (i.e. the one it directly follows). の then takes あなたへ and turns it into a modifier for the following noun おすすめ (just as it does when the first noun carries no other particle). So へ, being the directional marker means "toward you" and the の allows that to modify おすすめ, giving "toward-you recommendation". If you drop the の it is not a grammatical construction, and if you drop the へ it means "your recommendation" (implying the recommendation you gave). By the way, congratulations on having your computer in Japanese. 頑張ってね。

[@Artahe]

Oh, my computer isn't in japanese (I'm not that advanced yet), just my social media platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, but also KZbin. It helps a lot, I'll admit. So, about the へ, I guess I was right for the wrong reasons? ^^

[@user-rt6fq8wk1d]

What about への ? I've got this sentence where I have no idea what it is saying: 貴殿に特殊として 以下部隊隊長への着任を命ずる。

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

The の here is modified by ("nominalizes") 部隊隊長へ "to corps commander" and the whole unit then modifies 着任 post-entry (difficult to put into English). So "the below-mentioned to-corps-commander post-uptaking is ordered (appointed). This is presumably an official order, meaning the person mentioned below is appointed/ordered to take up the post of corps commander. The bit above is just the formal address to the recipient.

[@user-rt6fq8wk1d]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you.

[@MrKeepItTrill]

As a native German speaker, where could I find a resource comparing particles to the case system?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I've looked for this but the problem is that no one at least in English seems to get it. They do say things like が marks the object case (nominative) but then get tangled up with "but in cases like コーヒーが好きだ or ケーキが食べたい it breaks down because が starts marking the object. Of course this is untrue. The illusion that が marks the object is purely caused by English translation and it is absurd because how, can adjectives or adjectival nouns take objects? But this I am afraid is the "state of the art" in English mapping of Japanese. I don't know what it is like in German.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

PS I do a survey of the main case particles here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqjGhXxvptuCY7c - I should add that の is genitive (and よ after a noun is vocative as in the Snow White wicked Queen's 鏡よ鏡よ).

[@zuutaa6142]

Hello Cure Dolly, I know this video isn´t about 自動詞 and 他動詞 the transitive and intransivitive verbs and you do mentioned something like this transitivity isn´t about the self-move and other-move, but what confuses me here is that you´re calling 食べる, 読む intransitive when there isn´t explicitly an object mentioned in the sentence. But japanese call these verbs 食べる, 読む, 飲む, 作る, 買う, あげる, もらう etc. actually "absotule transitive", because they need allways a direct object. You can´t perform eating without an object, even if not mentioned in the sentence. Your 3. example "I walk." is not confusing me, cuz that one would be on contrary considered absolute intransitive with 行く, 来る, 働く, 死ぬ, 泣く, 座る, ある etc. because you can´t walk something, only walk ON something, at least so I understand it. I don´t think I have major problem to understand these combinations of particles but this just left me puzzled. Also just small thought of mine, in some japanese tests like JLPT, which I once participated in, they like to catch you on questions with examples of like 3-4 particles combined together a you have to choose which are right...or even realistic. There I had problem to identify which are actually possible. I know these aren´t used in real life at all actually. So if I see in those combinations が or を, can I automaticly without thinking mark these answeres as wrong?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

My structure models are not necessarily the same as native 国語 (Japanese grammar, which itself is often based on European models). There is no such thing as "truth" in grammar models. They are all models for describing a pre-existing language, not the source code of language. A good model is designed to describe language structure in the way best suited to its purpose. 国語 is designed to classify Japanese language for fluent native speakers who already know its structures by instinct. The Organic model is designed to make the structure of the language clear to non-native learners. In practice, 食べる etc. are self-move in some sentences and other-move in others. JLPT is a complete waste of time unless you really need to take it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6GWeqyQrLalac0

[@ulodetero]

A few things that are slightly beside the point. 1) Why does 雪だるま mean a snowman? (Something like 雪人 would make sense to me, but now I wonder how -だるま means a man or sculpture...) 2) I was taught that 泳ぎ means "swimming". What is the difference then between it and 泳ぐの ...? 3) Does the nominalising の do basically the same kind of thing as こと...? 🤔🤨 Thanks

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

1. 雪人 would be perfect on the assumption that Japanese is one-for-one the same as English. It isn't. You only have to look up the word だるま to see that it is a particular kind of Japanese doll (based in Buddhism). This is what is traditionally built from snow in Japan. 2. 泳ぎ is the い-stem of 泳ぐ, which often gives us the noun-form of a verb. See this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/laLNao2hdqhlqqc - it does a similar -but not identical - job to 泳ぐの the exact difference is learned by immersion experience, not by lists and rules. 3. Yes they do approximately the same job. Again immersion is your friend, though もの does tend to deal with "things" and こと more with situations, states of affairs etc. But this is not a hard and fast rule. For more on this, please see this lesson: www.patreon.com/posts/52089494 it is a very important structure lesson and, of course, free and open to the public.

[@ulodetero]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I did look up だるま but there were no results. Thanks for the reply! 😊👍

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@ulodetero Where did you look it up? Google has many results. Do use Japanese characters.

[@randyhacker8619]

Hey today when I went to school my teacher said she can speak Japanese and she said you say the vowels the same but you say any other letter add ong to it so if ur name is Kim it’s kong I mong is this true?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I don't quite understand what you mean but it doesn't sound right. She may just be saying that final ん sounds more like English ng than n. It kind of does. If you know Spanish n as in pan, or French as in pain that is what it is really like.

[@HyperLuigi37]

待つ is an example where English and Japanese disagree, correct? We say wait for somebody in English, but I believe I hear Japanese say “さくらを待つ.”

[@zackwyvern2582]

持つ means "to await, to anticipate" as well as "to wait." There isn't much disagreement here. Correct English could also say "I awaited Sakura" just as much as "I waited for Sakura." Japanese just doesn't use that distinction, because the dictionary meanings of 持つ and "wait" in English are slightly different.

[@HyperLuigi37]

Zack Wyvern 待つ (まつ) not 持つ (もつ) but I kinda see what you mean. “Awaited Sakura” still sounds a bit odd to me, as opposed to “awaited Sakura’s arrival” or something, but yeah I feel like the disagreement Dolly mentioned may very well be due to these minor differences in definition, unless you can think of examples that have the exact same definition but one is directly transitive and one is indirectly.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@HyperLuigi37 Yes, 待つ can be more like "awaited" than "waited" and can also carry more element of "hoped". Interestingly Spanish _esperar_ has a range of meaning closer to 待つ than English "wait" though it is a bit heavier on the "hope" side than 待つ.

[@deedanner6431]

I saw [ というのも ] in a video and it was translated as "because". Can you explain this? Thanks.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Please give more context. Japanese is a very context-driven language and snippets of sentences really can't be interpreted out of context. There are various cases when this phrase could loosely be translated as "because" in English.

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 [ 明けましておめでとうございます? というのも、本日こちら 韓国, 旧正月ださいましてね。]

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@deedanner6431 Hmm the final part seems a little strange - are you sure that is exactly how it was written? Anyway I see that the online dictionary defines というのも as "because" which is really a bit weird. It is sometimes used to start clauses that give a "because" but they also have to end with something indicating "because". What it really does is kind of "set up" the previous statement for comment - which can be a "because" comment but need not be. So what is happening here is that it is making the first sentence (which of course is the regular Japaese new year's greeting) a topic and then commenting that "today is the lunar new year here in Korea". Without a wider context and with the ending being slightly strange it is hard to know exactly the nature of the comment but it might be along the lines of "should we be saying 'congratulations on the lunar new year". For context, Japan uses the Chinese year animals but now starts each animal-year at the Western new year rather than the lunar new year to which they originally belonged (and still do in China). I am not sure about Korea.

[@deedanner6431]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 It's kind of a weird rambling video. Do you mind explaining what's strange about the last part? When I saw [ というのも] I thought [というの] was something like "saying what was previously stated (というの) and this also (も)" .

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@deedanner6431 Yes that's pretty much what というものも means - it often tends to imply "supposing we say that" (i.e. what we just did say) which leads into the next bit which is often along the lines of "it then follows that..." which I imagine is where the dictionary gets the "because" translation. But it doesn't have to be that. The weird part is at the end 旧正月ださいましてね。I don't see what the kana part is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to be any real Japanese words. If it were something like 旧正月おめでとうございますね the meaning would be that we should be saying (here in Korea on this day) 旧正月おめでとうございます instead of 明けましておめでとうございます。That would make sense of the whole thing. As it is I am not certain what they are trying to say. It may be a sort of higgledy-piggledey way of taking off the sound of 明けましておめでとうございます. That is why I asked if that was really what they said. Also if the subs are not official they can sometimes be wrong.

[@Nic0Flores]

先生, is the connector のに something different from using the particles の + に at the same time or are these two things somehow related? Thank you very much for your videos, as always incredible useful!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes it is. It is still a combination of particles but it takes on a meaning that is quite different from the normal use of the two particles in combination.

[@Ak-ik8tc]

Hi! Thank you for the lessons. It's thanks to you that I haven't given up on learning japanese. One doubt (or more correctly something I got curious about) I have is: what did you mean by Latin case structure during your video? I'm brazilian and as such I'm a native Portuguese speaker, but I've never heard about anything close to "estrutura de caso" before. Therefore, I'm wondering if what you said about Latin also concerns Latin-derived languages like Portuguese, or it's really restricted to Latin.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

The case system is is common to older Indo-European languages. It is found in Latin, classical Greek, and survives in most modern Germanic languages. Romance languages and English have largely dropped it.

[@FiroYang]

It's a difficult time to bear the sound...

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Difficult to hear or difficult to bear? If you have trouble understanding there are full subtitles.

[@halfsanitized7084]

Couldn’t you always say 泳ぎ instead of 泳ぐの?

[@TIMRUM]

oyogi is a noun while oyoguno is normalization of a verb, they're used in different contexts

[@halfsanitized7084]

@@TIMRUM ag ok thx

[@user-pc5kg3le7l]

今は寝る 遅い寝たら明日は悪い日になる FINALLY HAD THE DISCIPLINE TO KILL THE CONDITIONAL GHOSTS PROPERLY. 幽霊にバサとした

[@user-pc5kg3le7l]

Off topic, but this served as spur of the moment practice.

[@deadlee666]

0:37 nah "niga" would sound offensive 😂

[@shib5267]

i guess 苦い is completely banned for you then

[@clover..H]

She is scary😱😱😱😱

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Me? I'm not even trying. Wait till Halloween!