Jay and Stu talk Doctor Who: The Two Doctors (1985)

[@Cmotdibbler941]

I guess it would make sense that different incarnations would have different food tastes and ethics about food. 6 is vegetarian but 9 orders a steak in the same way 11 can't stand the taste of alcohol in the impossible astronaut but 12 has a whiskey in Deep Breath and 10 drinks wine in Girl in the Fireplace

[@maxdabest32]

"New mouth. New rules. It's like eating something after brushing your teeth, everything tastes WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!" -Wise words from 11

[@Lizzieaftermidnight]

@@maxdabest32 I thought he said raw instead of wrong

[@HerohammerStudios]

@@Lizzieaftermidnight why would he say "raw" when he's eating an apple?

[@Lizzieaftermidnight]

@@HerohammerStudios idk it's just what I heard

[@phantomdriver2010]

12 hated pears

[@deltathetastudios2776]

the next big finish boxset: Cooking with shockeye

[@millievariants]

I didn’t know I needed that until now.

[@deltathetastudios2776]

@@millievariants what about the war K-9? I'd buy that

[@NitroIndigo]

The first two Doctors being colourblind was mentioned in the Day of the Doctor novelisation.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Yeah, there's loads of random stuff like that added in that... along with making the Doctor Who movies Canon.

[@allowableman2]

@@Jedi_Spartan Didn't even try to fix the big problems with DOTD

[@Zug8415]

@@allowableman2 like?

[@luk5859]

@@Zug8415 Like reducing the final day of the Time War to just a regular Dalek invasion that doesn't even influence any part of the universe except Gallifrey.

[@elliottwatt5297]

@@luk5859 that’s such a petty gripe

[@blatherskite3009]

iirc, "Androgum" is an anagram of "gourmand," e.g. a connoisseur of good food; often someone who eats too much. When a fictional alien race's nature is summed up in their name, it's probably a mistake to look for subtext.

[@verv5737]

The Ninth Doctor ordered a steak in Boom Town. I seem to remember seeing a clip (which I have tried to find but have failed), I think from Doctor Who confidental in which Russel T Davies explained that he was aware that The Doctor became a vegetarian in The Two Doctors, but didn't think that the general audience would be able to relate to him if he was a vegetarian so he deliberately made sure that he order meat in that scene.

[@millievariants]

It’s the dinner with Margret Slitheen in Boom Town.

[@verv5737]

@@millievariants That's the scene. Sorry I should have made it clearer, it is the confidential clips I can't find, not the steak scene.

[@jaded6530]

The ultimate fourth wall break was Remembrance of the Daleks, where Ace, on the 30th of November 1963 (day An Unearthly Child episode 2 aired), walks out a room, with a TV playing a BBC intro that says "We return to Doctor-" and she leaves

[@FerretLG1]

Jay not knowing Video Killed the Radio Star needs fixing

[@ctown0738]

Jay hasn’t seen LOTR so a lot of things need fixing

[@Edax_Royeaux]

I haven't seen the episode, but a sword is not an appropriate weapon to use in-doors, the blade is long and will likely catch on the ceiling, hit a wall or snag on something that's hanging. A knife is more controllable in a kitchen.

[@dracopug]

Still, you shouldn't have a weapon in your character design if you never use it

[@HerohammerStudios]

More specifically it's because he's a chef. Every time he pulls a knife he talks about cutting up a victim the same way someone would prepare chicken

[@blatherskite3009]

It's also possible that it's a ceremonial sword, i.e. more of a status symbol or costume piece than a practical weapon that's suitable for real combat.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@blatherskite3009 Even ceremonial swords are removed when indoors.

[@MrDarthT]

To add, regarding Seson 6b, Jamie knows about the Time Lords. Something that he didn't learn about until the end of The War Games. It's also heavily implied that the Second Doctor, while working for the Time Lords, convinced them to extract Jamie from a time after he went back to the highlands following The War Games. My personal caveat is that this all only makes sense if Patrick Troughton was taken from his timeline prior to the events of Spearhead from Space. Similar to how Clara was taken from a moment before her death. The Time Lords in The War Games seemed intent to start The Doctor's punishment right away. My theory would be that, when Troughton was taken from his time line during The Three Doctors, they didn't put him back right away, and put him to work for a bit, explaining the events of both The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors.

[@DeplorableMinecrafter]

The 1969 TV Comics leading up to Season 7 explicitly establish that the Doctor escaped the end of The War Games and his regeneration is started by some walking scarecrows.

[@AurumEtAes]

I like the idea that 6B missions for the Time Lords take place after The Three Doctors or even The Five Doctors, before letting him return to his timeline. Presumably with his memories of events of 6B erased

[@natsmith303]

The Ninth Doctor ordered steak, I believe, in Boom Town.

[@SpectrumStorms]

I must've had a different experience than you two, because I thoroughly enjoy 6's characterisation in his TV run.

[@HerohammerStudios]

Feel like the issue has always been the way Peri reacts to him. He's wonderful the second the two are split up

[@stewie1974]

The Narg note is a pastiche on the old Scottish stereotype of Scot's people indignantly insisting that Scottish pound notes are "Legal Tender" in England (They are right, but people in England are reluctant to accept the Scottish notes) The whole episode -does- its best to horrifically stereotype Scottish people "Big ginger eyebrows" etc... I would recommend the "Sci Fi Sketch" from monty python where the Blamanche's invade earth and turn people into "Scottish People" (Kilt, ginger etc) The Blamanche's intend to win Wimbledon by turning opponents Scottish... because of the stereotype they are crap at tennis

[@AurumEtAes]

Androgum is an anagram of gourmand, a joke on their food obsession. JN-T would have approved, he loved an anagram character name. Does the Series 6B theory take into account the Doctor’s lines to cover Victoria’s absence (she’s away studying graphology for some reason). Like are we theorising that the Time Lords scooped up both Victoria and Jamie from Earth to have a second distinct set of adventures with Two? Victoria left because she didn’t enjoy being constantly in danger, so it makes no sense for her of all companions to go back to travelling in the TARDIS. It would have worked better for the 6B theory if he had made a reference to Zoe’s absence

[@someguy3752]

TBH, this whole story is such ridiculous fun in places, I can't help but love it.

[@alexanderwiles2003]

I think the timelords being needed to use a tardis actually happens in the lodger when it's trying to create a tardis like ship and needs a pilote and the humans keep dying so it wants the doctor

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

21:58 Makes sense. It's psychosomatic. Like if a man with stereotypical views on women's behavior, was injected with enough estrogen, he would act out those stereotypes. So that's why the Doctor acts out his stereotypes of Andrgum behaviour, when injected with Androgum DNA.

[@Catterjeeo]

Still pretty racist tho

[@squibble311]

intresting

[@HerohammerStudios]

I don't follow

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

@@HerohammerStudios A man might believe that women feel emotions (other than anger) more intently and if he took estrogen, he may imagine that he is feeling emotions more. It could becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Before taking estrogen, he may respond to insults, with threats of violence. He has his macho immage to defend. But if he takes estrogen and is becoming a woman, then they won't worry about that. They will respond in the way they imagine a woman would.

[@magnuspeacock5857]

You got a source for that?

[@jamesstewart7736]

Jay kept saying I wish Doctor 6 would show a bit more compassion to Peri in this story and would love to see that in his TV episodes. Doctor 6 literally does this when Peri realises Ravalox is Earth in Trial of a Timelord episode 1

[@elberno4243]

Ahhh, but that story was manipulated by The Valeyard, so may be fictitious. There is a theory that everything post-Andrazani, is a Matrix manipulation. It would explain the "Carrot Juice" audioFX and Colin never filming a regeneration.

[@HerohammerStudios]

@@elberno4243 it's clearly not fictitious. 6 states that some parts have been manipulated and his outbursts at specific scenes wouldn't make sense if the entire thing was just made up. Also, why would The Valeyard change things to make The Doctor look good, when the entire point is trying to make him look like an irresponsible scumbag?

[@elberno4243]

@@HerohammerStudios Please learn to read without bias. I said "May". Secondly, in a court of law, any tampered evidence is inadmissible. End of the story As for why The Valeyard would show the Doctor being "directly involved" or showing "attachment to other species"? ie. Earth Female Humans? This action contravenes Galifreyan laws. You should know this! Lastly, if a false memory were created, in which The Doctor acted completely out of character, no court, judge nor juror would believe it, so a few token moments of kindness, would need to be in place Run!

[@millievariants]

Everybody knows Micheal Grade is the Valleyard.

[@mikeyandwho]

"this storys racist" *picks up popcorn*

[@alisonjane7068]

peri's outfit is a lot, but i i'm not mad about it.

[@jabt2023]

They actually did try to redeem Fix with the Sontarans by replacing Savile with a new alternative ending and a bit of VO by Colin

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Someone on the TARDIS wiki is so dedicated to Doctor Who Canon that they felt the need to state that Power of the Doctor's Tegan backstory contradicts that short... PotD's wiki page also references that one of the Short Trips stories is apparently a sequel to that short.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Power of the Doctor contradicts a lot of stories with the companions including Ace’s encounters with the Master in expanded universe media since it states she hadn’t seen him since Survival. Another wrinkle to the ever-classic WTF Post-Survival Ace timeline.

[@MrSharp919]

hol up, has missing episodes really been discovered? Cant find any news of it anywhere

[@ethanpond1195]

I would say that the racism is entirely accidental. In my opinion, it just seems as if Robert Holmes was just being really extreme in his views and didn't fully consider the idea of DNA and genetics being tied back to race or ethnicity or nationality. I would also say that the fun with the Second Doctor and Shockeye being down almost entirely to the conflict between the performances and Holmes' written intent.

[@joesomers3949]

I really like 6 and Mel

[@KaladinVegapunk]

Haha Ive followed you a few years now, only recently found broke canon and I was like I wonder if Davis knows Jay, and then saw you pop up on one of the videos hahah, like ah of course Broke canon is definitely hilarious, there's so much random crap You're still the best who channel, your main chibnall video is RLM/ Plinkett level

[@fongale7448]

Ignoring the pun, how is it 'just desserts' for Shokai to die when his behaviour was genetically fixed? This script was such a moral muddle.

[@carealoo744]

1:32:30 It happened. Just without the ending.

[@bendream544]

They could have covered the Jimmy Saville's face

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Will you and Stubagful ever cover Torchwood stories? If you review Children of Earth please mention the fact that there's a comic that revealed that one of the original 12 Jack offered to the 456 was actually a fully grown adult time agent that THE 11TH DOCTOR deaged and sent back in time to that point with a Vortex Manipulator. That's probably the 11th Doctor's version of 13 throwing the Master to the Nazis in Spyfall. The comic is called Time Fraud and here's the video I first heard about it from: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2qcnJ2LbZ2Varc

[@impatrice9030]

Broke canon fan??

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@impatrice9030 yes

[@reginaldfromnigeria5206]

That could very well have been accidental on 11's part.

[@Tymbus]

Racism was not an accepted attitude at the time. The ant-racism movement and feminist movements had already publically challenged discrimminatory attitudes

[@Carwyn.Morris]

i don't think this story is racist. During the 80's there was a lot going on in science to do with test tube babies, genetic manipulation, cloning and human hybrids. There was a lot of the dark side of science stuff. Though personally I think this story has more to do as a cautionary tale about trying to domesticate wild animals than racism.

[@scix8794]

I HATE this story to no end.

[@carealoo744]

3:55 You mean Steven Moffat?

[@BlueSkyBS]

I'm sure anyone who has a problem with how Androgums are portrayed will happily jump into a pod of hungry Humboldt Squids. If you explain to them that attacking you, themselves or anything else that looks like food is a bad thing, they'll understand. ;) As for SawbonesHex on tv.... Thank the elder ones that Big Finish exists.

[@tomgarb6302]

Buggles

[@slandersir7255]

19:00

[@HiperPivociarz]

I'm sorry, but Stu and Jay saying this episode's message is invalidated by the scenes of character eating meat being fun to watch has the same vibe of people telling you you are a bad person if you enjoy villains in movies and tv shows. Like, everybody loves the Daleks, we love watching them do cool shit, I assume do Jay and Stu, but I don't see them saying that Doctor Who is an advert for nazism. I don't know if I am the problem, but to me, if you go into a drug PSA, and come out of it with the mentality of "Oh, drugs are cool", then I think the problem is you, not the PSA.

[@powerfulaura5166]

Nature is pretty irrefutably more influential than nurture, deal w/ it lol.