Jay and Stu talk Doctor Who: The Movie (1996)

[@JayExci]

Because I am stupid we'll be reading this stream's superchats at the start of the next stream.

[@____uncompetative]

Jay Exci "Life is wasted on the living" is something the ghost of Zaphod Beeblebrox's great grandfather says to him at the beginning of the sequel to _The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ that is entitled: _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe._ A good novel, but frankly the best version of _Hitch-Hiker_ is the original Radio 4 series. As this is hard to provide a link to (the BBC takes down uploads), here is a link to the second album that was made: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZjYfZKtZ7SYqNk

[@thelegendthemyththeman4772]

Review master plan!!!!!!!!!!!

[@HiperPivociarz]

Jay, I've got good news about that Millenium Bug episode you wanted. There's this book called Millenial Rights, where Mel becomes the Bride of Frankenstein, Doctor becomes Valleyard, and they all fight Cthulu.

[@spencerfalzy]

Frankenstein is public domain in America.

[@mondasdolan]

@@spencerfalzy the character is, but the version of him with the nuts and bolts in his neck isn’t. They were able to use the Universal film because Universal helped make this “movie”.

[@charlestownsend9280]

How did you meet the doctor? Sarah jane: i was investigating him and ended up going back in time and helping him save medievil earth. Romana: we joined up to find the key to time. Ace: i was lost on an alien planet and he took me in and became my mentor. Lucie: I was sent to him by the timelords. Charlie: We're both travellers. Rose: I saved his life and the earth. Amy: I met him as a child. Bill: He was my tutor. Grace: I killed him. So how did you get the doctor to fall in love with you? Rose: i helpped him though his guilt. River: i was brainwashed into killing him but then fell in love with him and decided to fight against my programming and instead save him. Grace: i killed him, gave him some shoes, got mind controlled, died and came back to life.

[@synobyte2123]

*T H E S E S H O E S*

[@AubreySciFi]

I was actually one of the very few fans who got to see this before it aired on TV. I live in Los Angeles, and they did a big premiere of it at the Director's Guild out here. Paul McGann was there, as was Grace, and three actors from classic WHO, who happened to be in town. The word got out to the local fan club that there was going to be a screening with a signing after, so I went down there with my Mom and a friend and we were given photos that we could get signed by the new Doctor after the event. So that's my main memories of my first experience with the film. I got to see it in the same theater as Paul and immediately after got to meet him and get his autograph and chat for a long while with three classic WHO actors I liked. It was a wonderful experience overall. Yeah, the movie was very flawed, but I had hopes at the time that it could be improved when it went to series, which of course it didn't.

[@rueblie2627]

That’s really cool, even if the film itself is less than amazing. I’m sure it would make it fun regardless

[@AubreySciFi]

@@rueblie2627 And it certainly looked great in 35mm projected on a big movie screen.

[@sugarbaby1974]

I'm genuinely jealous, what a great experience! I always felt that McGann was a fabulous Doctor and am sad he often gets overlooked in the canon. Grateful for the radio shows, though, he's amazing!

[@moonsofmadness8850]

That "Dalek concept art" looks more like the Skovox Blitzer in Capaldi's "Caretaker" episode.

[@AR-hu2to]

The Dalek concept art actually became alternate reality Daleks in an Eighth Doctor comic. But yeah, the similarities between the two are pretty striking.

[@ske56]

8th Doctor Best Doctor. He has so many good Big Finish stories. Also, he can punch solid steel doors down. So, that's neat.

[@kanashimi4356]

That was post regenerative enhanced strength (I think) but yeah he's great.

[@naruto199797]

@@kanashimi4356 it has been established a lot even with the 13th doctor falling out of the tardis and into a train with no injuries

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

What's really weird about the Doctor's death is, right before that scene the narration says "I learned to be more careful in my old age". THEN he steps out of the TARDIS without using the scanner to look around and check the area, something he never had done in the original series.

[@crimsondynamo615]

And this is the Seventh Doctor, as in the Doctor who was clever enough to face against gods and other threats and manipulative to the extremes. But here he makes a mistake that brash companions make. One of the smartest doctors does the biggest form of stupidity .

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@crimsondynamo615 Not to mention the sheer number of times he's had guns pointed at him and talked his way out of it. I remember one scene, with this very Doctor, where he basically goaded the guy to shoot him and, by the end of the scene, the guy was practically in tears.

[@crimsondynamo615]

@@LibraGamesUnlimited oh yes The Happiness Patrol, where he proves his words hurt more than a bullet. So him not even looking at the scanner and just walking out into a shooting is such a huge slap in the face to his character

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@crimsondynamo615 The laziest Doctor death since the previous Doctor, I guess, bumped his head and became him. :) At least, in that case, they had the excuse of not having the actor, they had McCoy right there and couldn't figure out something better.

[@HiperPivociarz]

@@crimsondynamo615 I'd argue that you could make that mistake regardless of intelligence. Like, sometimes we absentmindedly forget things.

[@matthewharbinson6496]

fun fact: in the britbox version, they legit just removed the high-pitched dalek part. they just start with the title credits, and honestly that's probably for the best.

[@crimsondynamo615]

Chipmunk Daleks are the worst Daleks

[@AR-hu2to]

The movie probably would have been better for newer audiences if they cut out the opening. The opening would confuse viewers who have never seen the show, alienate older fans since its a cameo with weak voices, and all this info is said in an exposition dump later in the film anyway.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Actually, the Master slips up and mentioned that he wasted his lives trying to kill the Doctor with Lee right there and the Doctor catches him in that. It's not much but it's something.

[@charlestownsend9280]

Just imagine the person who finds the guards covered in spunk? They must have thought that they were up to some weird freaky shit.

[@JayLiszte]

I watched it tonight and I genuinely loved it as a campy one-off adventure in America. Also the master and lees interactions were genuinely funny

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

See, I always thought it would make more sense if he was put on trial by the Timelords, but then they wouldn't have the plot point about the Doctor taking his remains back to Gallifrey. Actually, the original Master did team up with the Daleks in a story and betrayed them so there would be that but still.

[@leejohnstone9047]

Grace has venom spat on her arm. Possessed by the Master then killed by him. And fans wonders why she doesn't go travelling with the Doctor!

[@Blartyboy]

Correction: the leekley bible had actually been scrapped long before they even got the deal with the network, and had been rejected ages before. If the series had been greenlit, there is no way the leekley bible would ever be used, as if you look at it, the leekley bible clearly doesn't take place in the same canon as the classic series.

[@Blartyboy]

Also, john leekley had been fired from a completely different project than the TV movie, with only one key production member being consistent between the two.

[@spluff5]

There's actually more than 5x as much Big Finish as there is Classic Who.

[@ryanhlfc]

Including jago and litefoot, Bernice Summerfield etc?

[@spluff5]

@@ryanhlfc No, that's the crazy thing

[@ryanhlfc]

@@spluff5 I think the monthly range alone doubles the number of stories in classic

[@ryanhlfc]

@@spluff5 plus add companion chronicles, 4th Doctor adventures, all the eighth doctor stuff. I can believe it

[@spluff5]

@@ryanhlfc I made a list of all the stories that feature the doctor as a prominent main character and there were 720, compared to the 155 classic who stories.

[@waapfu]

this film was on the telly once and i saw the beginning of it with the doctor regenerating and didn't watch the rest of it but that scenario really stuck with me. i've only really watched new who where the doctor's all special and magical and everything's bombastic (particularly in moffat's era) and seeing the doctor die in such a mundane way was super interesting

[@ginge641]

Yeah I do wish they'd do that again somehow, perhaps with a "throwaway" incarnation because I don't think the BBC would go for this with one of the mains.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

my head cannon is that trial means something different to the Daleks, like maybe The Daleks were trying to learn about Timelords to prepare for their extermination in the time wars

[@luk5859]

The most canon answer to why Ace isn't there is the Virgin New Adventures Novel "Lungbarrow". The Virgin New Adventures Novels bridged the gap between the show and the movie directly, with "Lungbarrow" leading into the movie.

[@NitroIndigo]

What's the audio play where Mel assembles an IKEA cabinet under threat of death called?

[@MyNameIsExci]

The One Doctor

[@maxkennedy7430]

I would love to hear you and Stubagful talk about the Doctor Who VNA & EDA books.

[@ryanhlfc]

The Eight Doctors rules

[@phantomdriver2010]

This is such an interesting and odd footnote in Dr.Who history and for that I'll always love it

[@charlestownsend9280]

Grace doesn't get hypnotised out of nowhere, she gets caught by some of the masters spunk (i think when they are escaping the clock place), it catches her hand and she doesn't tell the doctor and that is what leads to him being able to mind control her. Also lee gets convinced that the doctor is a good guy because the master slips up and says that he wasted his lives or something along those lines (its been a while since i've seen the film, so not entirely sure of the exact line but it is there).

[@AR-hu2to]

Your description of events is accurate. Tbh the film moves so fast that first time I saw it, I was confused and missed all the details and plot points. It wasn’t until repeat viewings that I was like “oh, thats what happened”.

[@HiperPivociarz]

Ugh, I hate this cliche of infected characters just not telling their friends they're infected. Why didn't she tell him?

[@sugarbaby1974]

@@HiperPivociarz Not being political, I swear, but this past year has shown that there are a LOT of selfish people who don't bother/want to tell their friends and family that they're infected. I wish it was just a stupid cliche but humans can, unfortunately, be really....stupid. :(

[@MrDarthT]

NBC Universal partially owns the rights to the TV Movie. Universal also made the Frankenstein movie.

[@kamilee4123]

I think one of the things that really brings this movie down is how on the nose about everything it feels it has to be. Like showing Seven reading The Time Machine and the opening narration and all that. Also the camerawork and editing makes it feel VERY made for TV and very 90s. It’s a shame because I think most of the acting is pretty good and Paul McGann would probably still be one of my favorite Doctors based off this movie if none of the Big Finish stuff existed.

[@mikuconcerts7971]

i havent seen the tv movie so guess what i'll be watching after i finish this VOD EDIT: I actually really enjoyed it. Like, I was aware that it was shit and as you both said it's very camp but I had a really fun time with it, honestly. I reckon if I listened to some of the Big Finish stories, 8th Doctor Paul McGann would slowly become my favourite Doctor. Now..time to find some porn.

[@kanashimi4356]

There's a bunch free on spotify, I'd say start with the 1st season of the 8th doctor adventures then start his stories from the main range but dont watch zagreus until you've caught up with all the doctors involved in it.

[@mikuconcerts7971]

Kanashimi435 That's what I did 👍

[@chrislawley6801]

Always thought this as made by Americans who thought the Doctor was the guy out of The Time Machine by HG Wells

[@SlyCooperJr]

I can't believe you missed my Superchat, such a racetism, Jay. Even Stu caught it in the beginning.

[@synobyte2123]

I'm a simple woman. I see 8, I clickie.

[@Fejrus887]

The Leekly Bible was the plan before The Movie we have now was made. They dropped the idea later on, realizing how stupid it is and After a failed second Plan, which was ditched even faster and the connections with Fox were made. Fox said, that they could only do a backdoor Pilot and no series for now and with that they brought Matthew Jacobs on board, who wrote the Movie. He made sure it didnt overwrite previous continuity and included the 7th Doctor regeneration. That also explains why (when it came to casting) every actor aditioned with the Leekley Version, because the actual script wasn't ready yet. Kinda sad that the Studios tinkered with the script so much, because the movie does have some quality bits in there, just burried under all the bullshit

[@AlexTheRacoon]

That Dalek concept art is actually from a previous pitch of the Eighth Doctor from a different team. This one wouldn't have had those monstrosities if it were greenlit for further development.

[@alisonjane7068]

gang violence in a rom-com may seem weird (i mean, it is), but american media was obsessed with both of those things in the 90s.

[@daiyahigashikata]

there's also an 8th doctor novel from around the same time that goes into extreme detail about crack cocaine, how it's smoked and how bad it is

[@QueenStodge]

I feel the movie is in the same vein of Big Finish's experimental stuff. It's an experiment that failed, and it was interesting, but yeah.

[@AubreySciFi]

Grace gets hit with the Master's funky goop spittle as they're escaping from the clock tower and that's what apparently gave him the way into her mind. So yeah, if he hocks a goop Luggie on you he can take control of you later, apparently.

[@mathieuleader8601]

Genesis frontman Phil Collins and Sting almost played the Master in the movie before Eric Roberts

[@Galvion1980]

Phil Collins would have made a wonderful Master...I have always thought that he should have played Voldemort in the Harry Potter films (the books constantly remind you of Voldy's "cold, high-pitched voice", which Ralph Fiennes sadly lacks...)

[@greghawkins59]

I never thought I'd be googling doctor who porn

[@RabbiB0Y]

there is so much

[@spluff5]

A different way to do the opening scene might be to just say he was being executed for his uncountable crimes. And the audience hears the Daleks say exterminate. Fans know what they are and newcomers can just think "oh, so her was exterminated by aliens of some kind... makes sense"

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

43:11 unappreciated joke

[@joeyunderwood]

it’s so cheesy and 90s, i love it. mcgann is great. the only problem i have with it is the half human thing but i just ignore it like the show did.

[@crimsondynamo615]

The Master is a Semen Serpent you could say

[@TheGodOfGravy]

I’m someone who is aware of Big Finish and how good it is as a whole but has never listened to one and really would like to start seeing as I’ve been done with the TV series for a good couple of years now. Where should start? Any recommendations for an easy introduction and some of the best ones lads?

[@konradh6893]

If you have Spotify premium you can listen to the first 50 monthly releases. A standout is definitely Spare Parts, great story. They also have the first few stories McGann did, and his later (my personal favourite McGann episodes) with Lucie Miller. They don't have many so you'll have to buy the rest individually/ in a bundle on Big Finish but Spotify will help you save a bit of money if you want to listen to loads of the stories!

[@TheGodOfGravy]

Konrad Harbert - I’ve heard of Spare Parts. I think it’s universally accepted as a winner. Thanks for the advice.

[@konradh6893]

@@TheGodOfGravy no worries!

[@edb2863]

Hey, if you have audible you can get some stuff on there too! Recommendations: Jago and litefoot (if you're already familiar with talons of weng chiang) Short trips (various volumes) Also good stories: Jubilee The holy terror Spare parts (as already recommended) Live 34 Also on soundcloud they have a few free stories: There's one about a cyberman I can't remember the title Cuddlesome (5th Dr, one part, genuinely great)

[@TheGodOfGravy]

Ed Brooking All interesting suggestions, thank you. Jubilee is the story that Dalek is based on isn’t it?

[@lachieechoecho]

Late to the gunge party. But Kenny Everett and the gunge is something you really need to see. If you haven’t already. In fact, any and all Kenny Everett if you haven’t already. 😂

[@Jedi_Spartan]

11:06 Frontier In Space. 24:15 Is that where Chibnall got the idea for Torchwood - Day One?

[@mrtb7676]

I always assumed there was a Doctor Who porn parody called Doctor Whore, but I never bothered looking it up until now. There is, and it includes the characters River Dong and the CyberSeMen. www.imdb.com/title/tt4065542/

[@HiperPivociarz]

Literally the first Master we see in the show, Roger Delgado, was in a dalek story. And I'm pretty sure he killed some.

[@bendream544]

He didn't kill daleks in the TV series but did partake in a little bit of backstabbing, which I suppose puts him on their 'we'll get you later Basta. ..I mean Master.'

[@markwilliams7054]

I’m getting nostalgia for 2020, wtf is happening

[@drewstevens2532]

grace shows up in the 50th anniversary comic prisoners of time

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

She was in the comic strip in 'Doctor Who Magazine'.

[@greghawkins59]

So it turns out a Spanish sub of the series 11 special is on xvideos

[@revanne5012]

So the idea od the Master stealing the Doctor's body and regeneration cycle in Power of the Doctor wasn't even original lol, this movie tried it first

[@HerohammerStudios]

At points it honestly feels like Jay didn't pay any attention to what was actually going on in the movie

[@AR-hu2to]

Well, nobody’s perfect. Tbh the film did confuse me on first viewing because of its fast pace and exposition dumps.

[@joesomers3949]

Jay: Lee is THICC

[@vadandrumist1670]

I'm sure you've been told this already, but when you finally watch LotR you must do one of these before you go on EFAP. That, or just make an official video (in particular why you stopped after the first one) so we can get your innocent thoughts on the films before Mauler, Rags, and other guests tear them apart.

[@HiperPivociarz]

Stu being a South Park fan explains SO MUCH

[@carl2ndeddd700]

Kick Jay

[@HiperPivociarz]

I don't like Chibnall era, but in what way is it bubbly and cutesy?

[@maximillian8607]

Sneed

[@slandersir7255]

1:17:00

[@Blartyboy]

10 hours of what?

[@premier1975]

This movie was after all aimed at a (new) american audience, so would else could've you expected.

[@MetalheadSean666]

NOTIFICATION SQUAD

[@lorddrayvon1426]

I love the bit where Stubagful is just silent after May mentions fanfiction. Staged or not, who knows but I hope it was spontaneous, fucking gold.

[@lorddrayvon1426]

I meant jay but fuck autocorrect.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Is it time to watch terrible Doctor Who? What's next Kill the Moon?

[@ishaandw]

What do you mean? They already did terrible doctor who with the Timeless Children

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

@@ishaandw You think this film is good?

[@dracopug]

Joshua Perry they didn't imply that, they were just saying The Timeless Children is also bad

[@izzik2781]

The movie is not very good…….. But I love it, and will cherish it forever