Modifying the 7950X CPU for better thermals... VOIDED WARRANTY!

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[@Noise-Bomb]

Pro Tipp Jay: Use a mirror instead of tempered glass. A mirror is much flatter than any normal plain of glass since you would see any curvature of the glass in the reflection of the mirror as a distortion. Thanks to that mirrors are almost universally the flattest object in everyone's household.

[@mankaran6767]

Everyone the comment is scam be careful

[@notserious9990]

Exactly what i was going too say. Glas isent really flat but im guessing its flat enough but a mirror is probably flatter! best thing would be a the precision flat stones but there pretty pricy. Good if your planning on mesuring stuff tho

[@fuckoff5893]

@Sierra Mike Echo i second that, i’ve seen hundreds of cheap mirrors that distort the image the reflect I’d argue it’s more common than not

[@elhonkler]

Lol, no

[@Wilde_UK]

At least with the mirror you can see the distortion though. Glass you can't as easily.

[@xerith22]

I would suggest anyone flat lapping for the first time to use the same flat surface (start to finish) and super cleaning between swaping grit numbers. It will take longer but it will come out near perfect

[@ehiebert1297]

I would suggest watching a youtube channel like oxtoolco or robrenz these people are lapping for a perfect size down to .0001 of an inch and smaller. You do not need that for your cpu, but the techniques use to keep your cpu level is a good thing to learn will make your cpu lapping come out better.

[@jasonrhodes9683]

take it to a machine shop and have them mill it down. Cover everything you don't want milled with wax to keep anything from getting under the die or what ever it is. If you were really brave, you could have your CPU cut with a vee pattern and the cooler with a mirror image vee pattern so they would both have way more surface area. A shop with a good mill could cut them to less than 0.001 mm.

[@animalyze7120]

I would suggest don't do it at al, nothing a single cpu user encounters would or will ever require all this butchery, this is just for fun with no practical application outside of not understanding why people who need this power use multiple servers to achieve it.

[@kamelionify]

why lap. Had enough of hot temperatures with amd. I shouldn't have to do it with a retail product.

[@Apollo-Computers]

@@animalyze7120 I only do things like this when I'm competing for top ln2 scores.

[@davidbrennan5]

I think if you had measured the cpu before and after grinding and lapping with a micrometer or vernier caliper, you could turn down the standoff height the same amount to compensate using a lathe and you could have used any cooler on the chip with the proper pressure (You would have to keep the shorter standoffs with the chip after modifying it)

[@mariusvoicu683]

@T. N. i used a calliper, but there was actually no need got it perfect, but it did come in handy to know how much i took away, and i did not manage to get the whole 1.4, i might lap it down more, but my hands are bleeding already as i did it manually took a few hours to grind down a bit more than 1mm

[@Zombie101]

Do you actually need different stand offs if you shave 1mm off?

[@camerons.8322]

It's honestly amazing how much of a difference sub-millimeter tolerances make. I'm so happy I don't deal with anything that precise.

[@JJFX-]

Well a mm is pretty big actually. Even cheap FDM 3D printers (setup correctly) typically have a repeatable tolerance below 0.3mm. Above that starts becoming a problem more than you might think. Sub 0.1mm (100um) is where it gets tricky and typically where a lot of professional machining is.

[@somethinlike23]

I bet that heatspreader dust is great for the lungs

[@TheAnoniemo]

I like how you aimed the copper dust from the belt sander straight at the server intake

[@toseltreps1101]

Peak idiocy 🤣

[@cbr900son]

Im a knife maker and when we mirror polish a knife which can be to around 2000 grit sandpaper a trick we use is each grit go in 1 direction. the next grit go in another, That way if your going left to right and see scratches up and down you know those are scratches from the previous grit and need to be worked out. Might have to use a magnifying glass to see the real fine grits,.

[@user-lj3qe7oz2i]

👍

[@Korack]

From what i understand, the intel cpu is concave because when it heats up it expands, and if it is flat the center gets higher pushing the thermal paste to the edges and out and despite being something that takes time to happen, it can be avoided if the center is already lower than the edges and so when it heats up it becomes flat

[@rdiznfriends]

jay you've been making some great videos recently. feels like old times

[@Creator2574]

He missed an opportunity. The title could have said, belt sanding a 7950. 🤯

[@stevewatson6839]

@@Creator2574 He isn't Linus. 😁

[@Marin3r101]

@@stevewatson6839 he is using a belt sander....smh what a off-the-mark comment like you are just a bot.

[@stevewatson6839]

@@Marin3r101 Am I bovvered?

[@BuzzingGoober]

@@stevewatson6839 Linus is shit

[@hammer9856]

You can also use a sanding/polishing product called Micro Mesh to reduce the micro scratches on the heat spreader. Originally developed to sand/polish aircraft windshields and canopies to remove micro scratches and restore visibility (yes it's that fine). The sheets go to insane grits like 20,000.

[@manicdan481]

Thank you so much for shaving it down, THIS is the kind of test I wanted to see after the debauer-delid

[@dodorichard]

This Old House meets Jaystwocents, didnt thing Jay would break out the super high-tech gear to modify the 7950, hilarious.

[@stevenboswell4524]

For future reference, a figure 8 pattern instead of circles when sanding makes it much easier to keep it flat

[@Incubyss]

Nice!!! Can’t wait to do this for my own!! Waiting for the Delid kit/bracket

[@deminybs]

RIP my peasant 5800x3D 😥😥

[@ceilyurie856]

@@deminybs that's my planned upgrade from 5600x

[@hansvenho]

@@deminybs its still better at gaming

[@deminybs]

@@hansvenho better than what? the 7950x?

[@reloadingdontshoot1]

@@deminybs yup. The 5800x3d is on par with a 7950x in gaming performance. 3d vcache is the future. Dont waste ur money on a 7000 chip if ur a gamer; get a 5800x3d. I did and im set

[@Liquidmetal14]

Great work. Keep the content coming. That's why I love this time when all the new CPU/GPU's come out. Experimentation.

[@bradfeatherstone1775]

Change between all the sides when lapping to minimize unintentional gradients in the surface. Also, if you polish the CPU and the heat transfer block until they physically bond, you will get the best heat transfer. It is pretty cool to see two pieced non-magnetic of metal act like they are magnetic. Looks Great!

[@boots7859]

I know Jay is supposedly OG, however he sure didn't look like he knew what he was doing. Crappy semi-tutorial.

[@3DxPOD]

Jay is just O without the G 😅

[@taylor4386]

Prior machinist and folding knife Maker here, you should never lap with the power sander. When you're lapping a cpu or anything else you want it to be flat and parallel. Using a sander, no matter how flat your platen is, putting too much pressure on one side will cause it to no longer be parallel. Using a surface plate and a figure 8 pattern while turning often is going slowly is your best bet of staying flat and parallel. Yes it takes much longer but precision always does And I wouldn't trust using a surface grinder on a cpu or IHS

[@ZMan3k]

Can't wait for the delidding video! I delidded my 9700K and put a copper IHS on it with some liquid metal in between. Runs like a champ!

[@mwnciboo]

Need to try this to get some more life out of my 9700K

[@samsonadeboga223]

Liquid metal could breach the circuit if maximum care is not taken

[@ZMan3k]

@@samsonadeboga223 it’s easy to take care of, take nail polish and cover anything that can short.

[@3DxPOD]

​​@@ZMan3kI read nail polish is not ideal as it can deteriorate over time due to the heat. There are epoxies that can be used instead.

[@ZMan3k]

@@3DxPOD been running like this for almost 3 years without issues yet 🤷🏻‍♂️ at this point if it causes something detrimental to my rig I’ll just build a new one

[@Aesir247]

Loving these longer vids you've been pushing out recently! Gold stuff!

[@tank1064]

Even with the lapping, it's crazy how much heat is pouring out of that CPU. I remember it wasn't that long ago we only needed a 120mm radiator to deal with a CPU, and now it seems that 360mm of radiator won't be enough when talking about the long gaming/ intensive software sessions. Great video!!

[@cosmic_cupcake]

appearently you don't... according to hardware canucks' testing the 7950X does perfectly fine even under a 120mm tower cooler. The whole cooling issue seems a bit overblown by Jay.

[@tank1064]

@@cosmic_cupcake i mean "perfectly fine" is subjective with this series of CPU's because they are designed to keep in the range of 95 C. So yes you can cool the chip with anything, but the performance you get will change drastically if it has better cooling. It will always try to hit 95 C and throttle if you exceed that limit. "Perfectly fine" does not mean what it used to mean for previous generations. I think I remember just fine.

[@jx4219]

Looking at that huge ass heatspreader i'm definitly gonna delid it when i get mine next week. I think it's the best cpu to do that with. Derbauer got 20C. Lapping just seems to be more work than delidding for less temperature gain.

[@alext9558]

did you find any tool for deliding? Debauer's one isn't released yet apparently.

[@jx4219]

@@alext9558 No, actually i'm still waiting for my custom waterloop. I just have an AiO now so i don't delid yet. But temps are good enough. Though i had to limit cpu to 80C + slight undervolt and it only reaches ~5.1 then which is still blazing fast. Stock 7950x reaches 95C+ very quick. I feel sorry for the users who get this and have no idea about bios and customizing. I'll try to overclock it to 5.7 when i get my loop.

[@alext9558]

@@jx4219 same here, waiting for my case since last month, I think I'm gonna go down the lapping road as I want to delid anyways at some point. Cheer!

[@0Synergy]

Im waiting for the 3D variants to come out and yea AMD really fucked up with this IHS.

[@michal_king478]

personally gonna just lap it since that feels safer to me and I dont need any extra tools or parts for it. I can just 3d print the holder for it for lapping

[@SweetMooch]

If you wanted to measure the gap between the cooler and the CPU I suggest using plasti-gauge.

[@MrAcuta73]

Works for engine bearings, would work great for that!

[@Kapono5150]

“I’m not Flat right now” Best quote from Jay

[@Sean-un7ok]

Jay reminded me a little of "Tim The Tool Man" Taylor from Home Improvement with how he lapped it with a belt sander instead of by hand as was meant.

[@Truex007]

It's cool that delidding is back in style with these cpus. I delidded my old 8700k, and that turned out to be tons of fun, having the fastest cpu on the block. I sorta won the silicone lottery wirh that, managed a 5.3 all core.

[@wayland7150]

You risked a good CPU and were rewarded with great success. 5.3 GHz is amazing.

[@Apollo-Computers]

Mine did 5.3 at 1.3v before delid :) it's the only golden chip I have ever got.

[@Matty-rn5gt]

If you’re going to go for gold and void warranty it feels like a delid and mount swap would be the best way to go. Lapping seems a lot of work for a halfway result.

[@readypetequalmers7360]

problem I can see with that was how hard it was to get the mounts set up. Not sure if he was at the limit of what he could do or not. Personally, to save the 5-6 C I think it would be great as long as I could get a cooler on it. I know 5-6C isn't much but that was from pushing danger zone into more comfortable territory.

[@PanduPoluan]

Well, lapping is marginally safer as long as you don't try to lap the max amount of 1.2mm. say, go down by 0.8 to 1.0mm. With delidding, one can easily damage the substrate and/or dislodge one of the caps.

[@DigitalJedi]

Lapping is still a significantly lower risk of outright killing the CPU compared to delidding. Honestly for what it can do I'd consider it a worthwhile mod for somebody interesting in a heavy OC, but doesn't have the money to spend on a second CPU if one dies.

[@jamesbyrd3740]

@@readypetequalmers7360 Sanding something perfectly flat isn't easy

[@Jay_the_Caffeinator]

This reminds me when my roommate and I would polish our Pool Cues. The final sanding we did with glass bottles. Soo nice and smooth!

[@wayland7150]

Boys will be boys.

[@brennan2007]

Technically, I think a lot of scratches, and actually scratches no just cosmetic imperfections, would actually improve performance. It's exactly why radiators are the design they are, inner part of the cold plate in contact with the coolant has Micro fins. Scratches make more surface area than flat, which means more contact surface to transfer a larger amount of heat. BUT, that's assuming you have an appropriate viscosity of TIM, and actually fill all the Micro valleys.

[@NoXQc]

I know you’re not going to see this but I tried the Kingping extreme, Arctic MX5 and now Kryonaute extreme on my 7950x and nothing can drop it even 1c and all cinebench are within the same results at 38100 -/+ 50

[@jobsearch5871]

We can't see this

[@buddyb4343]

You could have easily exceeded 95 C using the belt sander. Wet sanding is your friend when trying to remove metal or plastic! (I have the same sander and can easily melt PLA from my 3 D printer if I get too aggressive.)

[@Flashbang_Photo]

"if you get too aggresive" bro PLA already melts at the SIGHT of the belt sander xD

[@Ehren1337]

he used wet sanding after sanded off excessive material.

[@N0N0111]

9:30 Polish is good when the IHS and the cooler cold plate are polished, it will literally create a 0 gap suction.

[@valkyuri1379]

so happy to see something we were messing with on forums 15 yrs ago finally showing up in the mainstream... add to cart.. done haha. honestly for most people this is all you need to do... de-lidding will give better temps with a properly mounted waterblock but its just such a time consuming fuss to get that mounted properly... many remounts and trial and error. with an ihs you don't have to be that careful. just be sure to do the same to the cooler you wish to mount.

[@Whutthefok]

hey jay i realy love these experiments to see the temp diferences. but i would like to see if there is an difference with lapping with sanding paper vs good enough whetstones. you can even polish it with an extremely high grid to smooth out the height difference as with sharpening knives. and to get an perfectly flat stone you have flatening/maininance stones to make the whetstone flat(if that is anny concern at all)

[@Fender178]

The last CPU that I have ever seen a KZbinr do direct chip cooling on was a 7700K by Linus Tech Tips and the results were amazing.

[@L1ft0ff]

DerBauer does this quiet often.

[@Fender178]

@@L1ft0ff Yeah I know. I was thinking of a video that I have seen from a KZbinr that I watch frequently.

[@OldmanDaSnipa13]

Reminds me of the Early Days of Danger Den Water blocks alll of them were the spring method for cpu's for retention.. love it!

[@JuxZeil]

Next time you replace the belt grinder you should get one that has the vertical disc plate grinder and rest plate. Makes that job a whole lot easier. 👍

[@bouzoukistudent8180]

also one that has a tension arm for sand paper

[@JuxZeil]

@@bouzoukistudent8180 The one I got has the tensioner built into one of the belt roller guides...I think most half decent ones do.

[@pdamasco]

I can't wait to see what Zen4c/x3d can do next year. When they tame the temps and power on that it's gonna be amazing.

[@kaseyboles30]

No plan to tame temps. The high temps of 7xxx are they intentional.

[@vgernyc]

Zen4c is an EPYC CPU though no?

[@pdamasco]

@@vgernyc it's just the code name for the denser node with more cores. It's not specifically epic it'll also be used in threadripper. There's also a chance they could use it as a last ditch effort if intel catches up because it's double the density so if they somehow wanted to shoehorn more cores on am5 before they drop Zen 5 that would be the way they could do it. They also kind of hinted at the fact that it would be double the cores for the same power which is why I think they may actually refine this. I didn't mean to imply that they're going to somehow drop some weird core revision of current zen 4 that's going to quote, tame the power. They are not doing that. Zen 4 3D and Zen 4C are indeed supposed to be further refinements on the same node so there is a chance they will not run quite so aggressively hot, and I feel like if they have a chance to reign that in a little bit why wouldn't they. They clearly pushed Zen 4 as hard as they possibly could to make sure they stayed ahead of raptor lake, or at least extremely competitive with it.

[@deansmits006]

We were told it was a voltage issue, bit power/temps. Yes, they are related, but there you go

[@DuBstep115]

@@pdamasco As long as AM5 CPUS are compatible with AM4 coolers the temps will be 10c higher than they need to be.

[@MaheerKibria]

This was what i wanted to see. I know lapping and delidding both void the warranty but I'm more willing to lap than i am to delid.

[@mariusvoicu683]

Exactly what i was thinking of

[@wayland7150]

We'll soon learn how much more de-lidding gets us. I bet i's not really worth the risk. At least with lapping you approach the danger level slowly and can stop.

[@Slimmeyy]

@@wayland7150 According to der8auer, it's 20° Celsius (along with lower power draw)

[@--_DJ_--]

@@wayland7150 We kind of already know the results. Confirmation never hurts though.

[@royaldecreeforthechurchofm8409]

That's interesting because I'm more willing to delid, It is much easier. Getting a perfectly flat surface lapping is way harder than people think. I've delidded and it's very easy running a thin knife through the glue.

[@summalibertas4588]

15:33 jay had to reach back to check to be sure himself lol

[@terryheimerl8674]

Jay, if you use a figure "8" motion it will make it easier to get a flat finish. Circular motion leaves point in the middle. Back and forth leaves a ridge across it. Think of it this way, the direction you move it digs in on the forward moving face/side. Push it north and the north end digs in. Same theory why Brembo brakes often use smaller disk puck on one end of the pad. Terry from Australia.

[@wayland7150]

You know they make concave mirrors for telescopes using the same technique as Jay is using for a flat surface except they using a particular grinding motion. If you do it wrong you can end up with a convex or concave surface.

[@burningglory2373]

It would be interesting to do with with a proper mill. Something that could guarentee precision and levelness.

[@WaterZer0]

See if der8auer will mill an IHS on video. :^)

[@S3M1ninja]

Awesome video Jay 😁 nice to see AMD show up to the table as far as cpu speeds go

[@animalyze7120]

Yeah now if they could only find a way to educate the masses into understanding measuring a few MHz in cpu speeds is a fools errand and far less important than other factors.

[@mynusten]

Incredibly interesting video and I look forward to your de-lidding video.

[@scottlindsay856]

That was really freakin cool to watch! thanks dudes

[@MlnscBoo]

Jay figuring out you can reuse original hardware is the gem of info in this video. So flippin cool Edit: Hey since you were able to get the z axes height lower with the original hardware, couldn't you take more off the ihs now?

[@rashkavar]

I have to admit, I am still surprised that AMD decided to go for a thick-as-heck IHS as its solution to AM5 processors being shorter than AM4. It seems like it would be much more reasonable to do any of the other 3 options I can think of: --Raise the whole mount on the socket side, such that the chip just sits higher --Put out specs for what the new height target is and work with as many of the big names in coolers as possible to help them have brackets ready to adapt their current hardware to AM5 on launch day --The above but also set up deals with those cooler manufacturers such that anyone buying a 7000 series processor gets a code they can use to get a free adapter kit (with AMD providing those companies compensation. (The last seems unlikely, sure, but it's a method by which using your old cooler doesn't cost you money as the end user and it doesn't compromise performance of the chip in any way the way screwing with its cooling system or possibly its mounting system would.) The only logical reason I can see for the thick IHS is if they've got plans for the next generation to be using some architecture that's going to use that extra space for something more productive than a copper slab. Maybe slip a layer of cache underneath the processing chips as an extension of the experiment they were running with the 5800X3D? (I don't know CPU architecture well enough to know that's remotely reasonable, it just seems like shackling yourself to having a thick slab of IHS is a weird choice unless there's plans to use that space for other stuff in the future)

[@fist003]

they mainly just want backward compatibility with existing coolers

[@BuzzingGoober]

@@fist003 more like they want to have some 'upgrade' for the Ryzen 8000 series. Theyll sudden have lower temps and better performance all due to a shorter IHS and nothing else.

[@rashkavar]

@@fist003 My point was there were other ways to achieve that without compromising the ability of all users to cool their CPU without doing things that would void the warranty (lapping/delidding). Especially since they've comitted to usng AM5 for several years, so every AMD processor for the next several generations will have to deal with this thick IHS issue. Again, unless they're planning to use the vertical space in future designs Which I have no idea is even remotely reasonable.

[@cookforyourwife6235]

You all rock thank for all your info. It has helped build my rig

[@jessefellers]

The outside construction part got me. 😂

[@TheVarliuxas]

thats actually interesting how cpu doesnt go in contact with aio when you sand it down thats like few milimeters

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

The thickness of the CPU was to make it compatible with AM4 coolers

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Welcome to mechanical engineering. When stuff has tight tolerances, even a millimeter makes or breaks everything

[@wayland7150]

The hook and eye mounting system would probably be OK without modification. It's spring loaded and only the CPU holding the cooler up. I'm not convinced the thickness reduction is what worked, rather the better contact surface.

[@LEXXIUS]

@@SkateClipsAndTips And in turn hurts thermals a lot. Would be much better for AMD to just raise the socket/make it thicker tarher than the CPU.

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

@@LEXXIUS agreed

[@richardhopkins4366]

Have you ever tried lapping the cooler and IHS together with lapping compound? They mirror each other's shape if you did.

[@TristanGTR]

@ 15:31 I was in tears!!! Man grabbed his cheek to make sure tho lmaoooo

[@frostilver]

*Jay, got a suggestion for you:* People might want to see more mobile builds / laptop mods, e.g. eGPU stuff.

[@DKTAz00]

Might want to pre-seal the thing before grinding. Just to be safe

[@toseltreps1101]

this. even a Coat of Vaseline you could wash off with white spirit would have helped

[@DKTAz00]

@@toseltreps1101 no, not this. Im not being 20-20 hindsight smart. Im telling other people who might want to also try this. ie myself.

[@CHR0N1KS]

Would be interesting if you go to the lowest lapping possible before you delied it. :)

[@chenchen-zu3dm]

thank you! i really need this

[@charlesbrucker3527]

I'm glad Jay's a car guy being a diesel mechanic my self I was thinking of polishing I understand the insulting aspect as well so that's a no no but would be interesting if u could cnc mill up to 1 micron error then it would be perfectly flat with no valleys or peaks from scratches

[@pleappleappleap]

If you want it really shiny, just wet sand with progressively 1000, 3000, 8000 grit.

[@Escalofrios29]

Going anywhere over 3000 is worthless derbauer has tested that multiple times

[@pleappleappleap]

@@Escalofrios29 I didn't say it wasn't worthless. I was saying that's how you make it *SHINY* Won't make one damn bit of different to cooling.

[@KobraTrading]

On intel 12th gen right now, if I had this in a system, I can't justify voiding the warranty for 100mHz gain and 5c cooler. Interesting finds though! Love the video.

[@elkomander3510]

I believe it was 10c from 94ish 95c stock down to 84ish 85c at the end. But yeah, this will always be for us few that are willing to do anything and everything to get the absolute most performance out of a beast cpu. I'm really looking forward to the de-liding tool honestly. Derb8er dropped I think 20c+ from doing so

[@KobraTrading]

@@elkomander3510 with a tool, and for 20c, i WOULD do it.

[@ricardombr]

@@KobraTrading for 20c you would definitely need a good cooler if you don't have one already and very good thermal paste, the reason for this is that stock the cooler doesn't make as much of a difference because the cpu is tuned to go to that temperature at stock

[@KobraTrading]

@@ricardombr got a good cooler, but what paste do you recommend? Something higer-end like Kryo?

[@mddunlap03]

De lid like 7-10th Gen Intel parts. Debouer dropped 20c and with stock power limits went to all core over 5.5ghz

[@angryangel66]

I love how you coop with Roman on that. Actually i mostly watch your channel, his channel and steve´s.

[@TotemSP2]

13:29 That got a hearty laugh from me. Ah, it's great when you know exactly what the problem is.

[@MJSGamingSanctuary]

Thats one fast server upgrade. 💦

[@sephondranzer]

Jay you shoulda gone all the way and showed us the 1.2 mm result. I was hella curious what you’d get, and without reality to settle me down, I keep wondering “what if it would have dropped 10-15 degrees if he went that last .4”….

[@alexmills1329]

It’s not going to drop another 10-15 like that, probably 5 C is realistic and 10 is very generous. Direct die only takes about 20 C off so this would have to be less than that

[@mariusvoicu683]

Yeah do not expect miracles from another 0.4mm, but at least he did the test and seeing results for me at least totally worth it, as lapping still has protection for the die, and you shave off like 10-15degrees which is a big improvement from 95, realistically speaking no cpu will run full tilt, but reducing temps increases significantly cpu life and gives extra performance

[@dullahangaming5107]

Might as well go all the way imo. I would not do it without delid first though.

[@hellraserfleshlight]

Igor's Lab did some testing of the 7950x vs th 5950x. The 7950x produces about 20w more heat and runs about 9C hotter. I would bet that going down to the same IHS thickness as the 5950x would get you about 8-9C lower than the stock 7950x IHS.

[@DuBstep115]

@@alexmills1329 The autism lvl of AMD is is 10/10, that we have 95c temps instead of 85c because they wanted to make it AM4 cooler "compatible"

[@aggonzalezdc]

Jay IMMEDIATELY jumps to defensive "IT WASNT A FART!" LMAO

[@Gunfighter5]

Great video Jay!!

[@robbfisher2876]

You can get pretty thick (8-10mm) float glass plates for ~$20 off that AtoZ site. In sunlight, find the side that has a rainbow shimmering effect, that's the side that was floating on the molten tin. Mark it with a permanent marker and use the other side for lapping. I'm still using the glass I had to special order from a glass shop 20 years ago to lap Barton dies!

[@fluphybunny930]

Except it clearly isn't worth the time effort or warranty. These CPUs just don't give enough extra verse the risk.

[@robbfisher2876]

@@fluphybunny930 Not worth it to you, risk is in the eye of the owner. That said, I wouldn't have bothered with it either given just how thick these AM5 Ryzen IHS' are. Direct die and lapping the die is where I would go. My advice still applies to lapping in general... not everyone here is on the bleeding edge AMD or Intel platforms. I lapped the IHS and the die(s) on a 3800X and using LM dropped temps 10ºC on my WC setup. I kept the IHS because of the offset chiplet layout. That proc is now air cooled and doing fantastic for my freind I gave it to after going to a 5900X, and it too will be getting the same treatment.

[@j340_official]

If amd broke cooler compatibility people would’ve complained that not only do they have to buy new ddr5 ram, thru also have to get a new cooler or a bracket (that may have been sold out for weeks). They can’t win.

[@zengrath]

I'm no where near hardcore enough enough to do something like this, but it's fascinating. I simply am the OC'er who tinkers with bios following OC guides for my CPU and happy to see a small bump in performance with no loss of stability and I'm satisfied. I live in a hot home in Florida with people who don't like to use AC so i feel like i need a lot of headroom to account for huge temp flux in room temp and so running an OC at it's limits of stability would likely not work in my environment. I don't think I've ever OC'ed AMD and plan to go AMD this time, will be fun to learn the AMD tricks that differ from intel.

[@ceilyurie856]

For those nto wantign to sand, jsut rub your cooler and CPU together, that will lap them together, and when they stick without thermal paste you got them so they match each other.

[@aphex412w]

yes the old friction weld method.

[@DingleBerryyyy]

This is crazy

[@deadprivacy]

No hoodies esp ones with strings near rotating machinery type... No ties , no wired headphones , no loose fitting shirts .. You can imagine why. Little sander like that youu would likely stop it with a body part ...but would you want to?

[@godonomas]

"I could've send this cpu flying straight to our server." "That's one way to upgrade" looool

[@kennyroody]

Yes yes yes!!! I've been waiting for you to do this!!!

[@deminybs]

RIP my peasant 5800x3D 😥😥

[@sephondranzer]

Same to my peasant 5800X3D, and mine doesn’t even arrive till Friday 😂

[@deminybs]

@@sephondranzer yeah....we should probably just quit now lol

[@Natedaskate]

Any plans for videos comparing CPU bottlenecks of the 4090? My 5900X runs at 4.95Ghz single core I don’t see 99-100% GPU very often on the 4090 at 4K

[@sephondranzer]

It’s a bit early for now. He’s already shown that the CPU is the bottleneck for 1440p and 1080P with a 7950x. Until a better CPU comes out, everything else is the bottleneck.

[@grievouswoundess6593]

It was mentioned before but just to put my *2cents* in ... use a figure 8 motion when lapping. As a millwright, when we are lapping the surface of a turbine, for the cover, we use this motion. You don't need high pressure steam escaping.

[@analog56x]

i removed a fair bit off my 5700G and i got some pretty awesome results. allowed me to get 4.7ghz all core stable without going nuclear. before it wouldnt even come close. instantly shot up and crashed haha!

[@infinitytec]

Ah yes sending metal dust into the server. No way that can go wrong!

[@itsdeonlol]

This is great Jay!

[@unimatrix82]

I love my 7900x ! i just got it up and running last night with 64gb of ram, 4 DIMMS working at their rated 6000mhz ! I applied some tweaks to the Precision boost overdrive in my Asus board and managed to unlock sorcery that made my CPU run cooler with less power draw and still maintained my performance. I ran one pass on Cinebench R23 multi core and got 27995, and my CPU did not exceed 52c for the entire run, i have a Noctua D15s with its stock fan. This thing runs cooler now than my 5800x did.

[@ranruy]

I dunno what's scarier, Jay forgetting to plug something in or Linus dropping things

[@sammorgan31]

I'd expect tempered glass that thin to bow really easily. A 9x12x2 granite surface plate is like $60 on Amazon. Certified flatness to 0.0001" (0.0025mm) If you lap cpu and cooler both with that plate you should be able to get them to the point where they'll stiction together.

[@Bare_Essence]

"Yup, right right into our server" lol - that was a great chuckle

[@Opteron67]

remembering lapping my Opteron 144 back in the days before deliding it, end the end I was limited by the northbridge. But 2 years afters I got a spare A64 4000+ and went 3Ghz opening the case outside in -20°C winter.. it was 2006...

[@MrDanwilliams]

I think this video is the perfect combination of relaxation and stress.

[@TheRobotix]

As a metal worker, when you are lapping you should do it in a figure 8 motion.

[@dragomirstefan2131]

CPU modding with a belt sander. What a time to be alive.

[@KalijahAnderson]

I'm getting one of these for my new build. I have already decided to do direct die cooling.

[@lordloxi]

I miss the old commercial they did where Jay fumbled his words and Phil dies in the background xD

[@stephanema.6220]

I am 55 years old I had done this on a processor a pentium of what I remember, to run it in an ASETEK case at the time Vapochill case with phase change with negative temperatures 😄For a frequency that would be ridiculous today 😁I have never sanded a CPU since, I still have this Vapochill case with Windows XP and the pentium. I have not relaunched it for a long time but sanding remains relevant as far as I see 😎

[@eweezy946]

You can polish lid. I have done it every time i shaved down a cpu. polish doesn't leave some kind of protective barrier on metal, just use 99% alcohol and clean it thoroughly.

[@PMA-kq6dm]

Reminds me alot of hand polishing a fiber optic connector some .1 micron diamond paper would really get any scratches out, also figure 8 motion is preferred due to polishing pressure of the hand.

[@chrisliddiard725]

Amd should produce two versions of the CPU. One where its 'compatible' with existing hardware but not as temperature efficient, and the other version where the CPU lid is as thin as they can make it, but then it's down to the user to make it fit their mounting hardware. This would require the motherboard manufacturers to also cooperate with the way they create the mounting hardware.

[@mariusvoicu683]

Exactly what i was thinking lapping down 1.4mm is a pain i might call it quits to mich material to grind down

[@junethefirst]

Jay, I learned the other day there is a much better way to go to the BIOS instead of smashing the DEL key like a madman, using the shutdown console command. shutdown /r /fw /t 0 The /fw modifier tells the system to enter the BIOS directly when it reboots. Make it a shortcut on your desktop and profit.

[@Dji00]

Nice, I've been using shift restart until now

[@zengrath]

Haha, I got the blender, "Will it blend" joke, classic!

[@danonimob]

great content! thank you

[@saxoferm]

When Jay says this is not precision...lol

[@urosorlovic11]

There are videos on KZbin how you just need to set up a curve optimizer in AMD Ryzen master and drop the temps significantly. Don't need to void the warranty, or mess around too much ...and temps are below 90c usually 87 but again that depends on your case and cooling choices. this is only in Cinebench, IN GAMES, THESE CPU ARE 60 TO 80C with an AIO.. Games are not gonna slam your cpu to the thermal wall which is again by design and won't kill itself or void the warranty.

[@amandao6686]

On derbauers conductivity test showed amd's nickel coating was pretty think and was decreasing the w/mk so taking it bare copper might help a little on top of improvement from better contact.

[@wayland7150]

Yes, I find it hard to comprehend why thinner copper helps when all you're doing is bonding it as best you can to another block of copper. I thought more copper = better. Except if you grind off the nickel and make it really flat you're making a better copper to copper contact area.

[@amandao6686]

@@wayland7150 shorter distance the thermal energy has to travel the more efficiently it can keep the chip cool, direct die cooling takes this farthest.

[@equinox654]

I lapped mine today. Can confirm the nickel plating is thick.

[@mechlost]

Thank you Jayz! As expected taking off some of that ridiculously thick lid improved thermals. Some parameters to consider: this was liquid cooling, (I know what some might say 'why use air cooling for a 7950x'?) However with air cooling I'm sure we would see the throttling difference on stock vs stock tested on the lowest possible lapped lid height (You know you want to shave off some more ^^). Right now the real problem comes down to custom mounting screws for any given setup (And the tedious lapping). Main take a way: AMD clearly created an artificial bottleneck- especially for the 7600x, 7700x, and 7900x, all of which could have easily been 200- 400 Mhz per core faster (if not more) on base and/or boost frequency without that extra thick lid while maintaining or perhaps improving temperature targets and possibly reducing fan RPMs.

[@GaRv3]

An IHS is usually concave because it will "pump" under load when it gets hot. If it was not concave when it's cold, it would become convex when it's hot. So if you do extreme OC, having a perfectly flat IHS is perfectly fine because you will keep it extremely cold. But if you use it under normal conditions (air or water cooled), it will become convex under load if you sanded it down before. So I actually would not recommend to do so.